How do you deal with anti-intellectual parents?
August 10, 2011 9:44 AM Subscribe
How do you deal with anti-intellectual parents?
I hate that this question probably comes off as snobby and elitist, but I'm sure I'm not the only one it's an issue for.
My parents are from the Silent Generation; my mother died about ten years ago, leaving my father, who is now in his late 60s. My half-sibling is in his 50s and I'm nearly out of my 20s. My sibling and I attended fairly prestigious universities, though my sibling majored in something far more lucrative. Neither of my parents completed college.
I grew up thinking I would become a writer, and my parents and teachers were alternately supportive and dismissive of this goal. I have not become a writer, so it may be sour grapes talking, but I've realized that I'm almost agog with disbelief when I encounter someone who has made a career in arts or letters. That is, I'm amazed that anyone takes himself and his interests that seriously, and that the people around him do too.
My parents were generally permissive with buying books, but when I look back, I realize that they almost never read to me, and I never saw them read either. My father reads the newspapers but I have never seen him complete even a single book. The only book I remember my mother reading cover to cover was a celeb autobiography. If I rent a foreign film, my father asks why I would do that since there are "so many movies in English." He constantly disparages people who speak English poorly, but I'm sure he would never attempt the difficult feat of learning a second language. My mother wasn't much better. For instance, back in college I shared with her a moment of triumph from my Shakespeare class. She asked "Yes, but how will that help you make money?" (It was a bit of close reading in which I pointed out something that my professor, a renowned Shakespeare scholar, hadn't noticed before.)
I guess I have two questions. 1. How do you take your own intellectual interests seriously when you feel that your parents think it a joke, a distant priority to moneymaking? 2. When you encounter helicopter parenting and people who take professional/professorial parents for granted, how do you keep yourself from being overwhelmed by envy?
I hate that this question probably comes off as snobby and elitist, but I'm sure I'm not the only one it's an issue for.
My parents are from the Silent Generation; my mother died about ten years ago, leaving my father, who is now in his late 60s. My half-sibling is in his 50s and I'm nearly out of my 20s. My sibling and I attended fairly prestigious universities, though my sibling majored in something far more lucrative. Neither of my parents completed college.
I grew up thinking I would become a writer, and my parents and teachers were alternately supportive and dismissive of this goal. I have not become a writer, so it may be sour grapes talking, but I've realized that I'm almost agog with disbelief when I encounter someone who has made a career in arts or letters. That is, I'm amazed that anyone takes himself and his interests that seriously, and that the people around him do too.
My parents were generally permissive with buying books, but when I look back, I realize that they almost never read to me, and I never saw them read either. My father reads the newspapers but I have never seen him complete even a single book. The only book I remember my mother reading cover to cover was a celeb autobiography. If I rent a foreign film, my father asks why I would do that since there are "so many movies in English." He constantly disparages people who speak English poorly, but I'm sure he would never attempt the difficult feat of learning a second language. My mother wasn't much better. For instance, back in college I shared with her a moment of triumph from my Shakespeare class. She asked "Yes, but how will that help you make money?" (It was a bit of close reading in which I pointed out something that my professor, a renowned Shakespeare scholar, hadn't noticed before.)
I guess I have two questions. 1. How do you take your own intellectual interests seriously when you feel that your parents think it a joke, a distant priority to moneymaking? 2. When you encounter helicopter parenting and people who take professional/professorial parents for granted, how do you keep yourself from being overwhelmed by envy?
They took it seriously enough to supply you with what you need to lpursue your interests. Love them for that, and try to keep the conversation at a level/about things they can keep up with. As for question 2, it really is a "grass is always greener" thing. Acknowledge the moment, then move on. Your parents love you, even if they don't understand you.
posted by Ys at 9:52 AM on August 10, 2011 [13 favorites]
posted by Ys at 9:52 AM on August 10, 2011 [13 favorites]
You have to define what role your family functionally plays in your life and then stop seeking any validation whatsoever from them in other areas.
Occasionally I share things I am proud of with my parents, because I know they are happy to hear them even if they don't really understand the significance of them. But mostly I just share with them the kinds of things they are prepared to appreciate. They're quite accustomed to me being an "odd duck" and while over time they have stretched a bit to try and understand where I'm coming from, mostly we get along a lot easier when we just share stories and incidents from our everyday lives, or talk about old memories, or gossip about other family members.
Fortunately I have a really supportive group of friends/colleagues for my more intellectual pursuits.
posted by hermitosis at 9:53 AM on August 10, 2011
Occasionally I share things I am proud of with my parents, because I know they are happy to hear them even if they don't really understand the significance of them. But mostly I just share with them the kinds of things they are prepared to appreciate. They're quite accustomed to me being an "odd duck" and while over time they have stretched a bit to try and understand where I'm coming from, mostly we get along a lot easier when we just share stories and incidents from our everyday lives, or talk about old memories, or gossip about other family members.
Fortunately I have a really supportive group of friends/colleagues for my more intellectual pursuits.
posted by hermitosis at 9:53 AM on August 10, 2011
The best answer I can give you is to find your source of intellectual validation elsewhere.
My parents both have PhDs. I am an accountant. It took 10 years for them to accept accounting as a valid career choice. When you are frustrated that other people take their professorial parents for granted, remember that it goes both ways.
posted by Zophi at 9:54 AM on August 10, 2011 [14 favorites]
My parents both have PhDs. I am an accountant. It took 10 years for them to accept accounting as a valid career choice. When you are frustrated that other people take their professorial parents for granted, remember that it goes both ways.
posted by Zophi at 9:54 AM on August 10, 2011 [14 favorites]
1. You're interested in what you're interested in: their lack of interest hasn't affected you till now.It's even less likely to affect you in the future.
2. I think those kids probably do not have any advantage when it comes to any kind of serious art. On the contrary, when you meet people who un-self-consciously answer the question 'what do you do' by saying 'writer' or 'poet' or 'philosopher' (yes, I've heard that) at the age of twenty--encouraged by their parents to take themselves that seriously and/or financed by them--what do you really think to yourself except that this kid is clueless?
posted by Paquda at 9:55 AM on August 10, 2011
2. I think those kids probably do not have any advantage when it comes to any kind of serious art. On the contrary, when you meet people who un-self-consciously answer the question 'what do you do' by saying 'writer' or 'poet' or 'philosopher' (yes, I've heard that) at the age of twenty--encouraged by their parents to take themselves that seriously and/or financed by them--what do you really think to yourself except that this kid is clueless?
posted by Paquda at 9:55 AM on August 10, 2011
1) Believe in yourself. This is part of growing up. Your parents could be more tactful, but one of their roles is to remind you that you need to focus to succeed. I say that sort of thing to my college age kids from time to time, mostly to make them think about it, and I'm hideously pro-intellectual.
2) Don't be envious. This is not necessarily giving them an advantage. In fact, helicoptering can stunt your personal growth. Your self-motivation is more powerful than your parents' nagging. Always.
posted by zomg at 9:55 AM on August 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
2) Don't be envious. This is not necessarily giving them an advantage. In fact, helicoptering can stunt your personal growth. Your self-motivation is more powerful than your parents' nagging. Always.
posted by zomg at 9:55 AM on August 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: For instance, back in college I shared with her a moment of triumph from my Shakespeare class. She asked "Yes, but how will that help you make money?"
I'll speak from the other side of the fence you're looking over. I came from a family of what you might call intellectuals or whatever. Everyone had degrees, albeit practical ones (doctors, engineers.) My mother, oddly, was an artist and an art professor in the old country (a psychologist here, eventually) and even still I got the exact same shit as an English major. I can read books on my own! I'm so smart, why don't I do something useful?
The idea that you are wasting your time in the liberal arts because you're not going to make any money out of it is more of a global experience than you think. In fact, it's one of the big stereotypes of Jewish (and other, but I'll speak of the one I grew up in) culture, which is otherwise heavily focused on scholarly pursuits. Many of my friends are Jewish immigrants, like I was, and they all got the same thing: you want to be a journalist? A video game designer? What's wrong with you? Go to law school! Be a real programmer! Etc.
What I'm trying to say is that your experience has less to do with your parents lack of education and more with their ham-handed attempt to, ostensibly, give you a better life than they had. And you'll find that in almost every parent.
posted by griphus at 9:59 AM on August 10, 2011 [14 favorites]
I'll speak from the other side of the fence you're looking over. I came from a family of what you might call intellectuals or whatever. Everyone had degrees, albeit practical ones (doctors, engineers.) My mother, oddly, was an artist and an art professor in the old country (a psychologist here, eventually) and even still I got the exact same shit as an English major. I can read books on my own! I'm so smart, why don't I do something useful?
The idea that you are wasting your time in the liberal arts because you're not going to make any money out of it is more of a global experience than you think. In fact, it's one of the big stereotypes of Jewish (and other, but I'll speak of the one I grew up in) culture, which is otherwise heavily focused on scholarly pursuits. Many of my friends are Jewish immigrants, like I was, and they all got the same thing: you want to be a journalist? A video game designer? What's wrong with you? Go to law school! Be a real programmer! Etc.
What I'm trying to say is that your experience has less to do with your parents lack of education and more with their ham-handed attempt to, ostensibly, give you a better life than they had. And you'll find that in almost every parent.
posted by griphus at 9:59 AM on August 10, 2011 [14 favorites]
It sounds like you want your parents to be different people than they actually are. I am not sure what your parents not having finished a book has anything to do with your intellectual interests.
1). You are at an age where you should be more autonomous and understand that your own choices are not attached to who your parents are. Time to separate and learn to love them for who they are. Opinions and all.
2). You have more autonomy and freedom make your choices than someone who has a helicoptering parent. I just saw Black Swan. You don't want that...
posted by Vaike at 10:01 AM on August 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
1). You are at an age where you should be more autonomous and understand that your own choices are not attached to who your parents are. Time to separate and learn to love them for who they are. Opinions and all.
2). You have more autonomy and freedom make your choices than someone who has a helicoptering parent. I just saw Black Swan. You don't want that...
posted by Vaike at 10:01 AM on August 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
How do you deal with it? Well, you don't engage them on that level. If they disparage you, don't escalate the conversation.
Remember, you're likely who you are, in part, due to who your parents are. Some intellectual parents have intellectual kids, but others have complete idiots who reject education because that's what their parents did.
Love what you love and don't make any apologies for it.
posted by inturnaround at 10:03 AM on August 10, 2011
Remember, you're likely who you are, in part, due to who your parents are. Some intellectual parents have intellectual kids, but others have complete idiots who reject education because that's what their parents did.
Love what you love and don't make any apologies for it.
posted by inturnaround at 10:03 AM on August 10, 2011
Also, the helicopter parents? Rather than nagging and complaining to their child that they aren't doing the "right" thing, they instead thrust them into doing it. That's not much to envy.
posted by griphus at 10:04 AM on August 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by griphus at 10:04 AM on August 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
At some point in life, most people realize their parents are simply flawed, imperfect individuals just like the rest of us. We can wish, hope and dream them to be something different, but we are stuck with the cards dealt.
Love them for who they are. They probably wont change much, and remind yourself the above statement.
posted by handbanana at 10:08 AM on August 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Love them for who they are. They probably wont change much, and remind yourself the above statement.
posted by handbanana at 10:08 AM on August 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Going with griphus on this one: less "anti-intellectual" and more "anti-having-impoverished-kids."
posted by valkyryn at 10:13 AM on August 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by valkyryn at 10:13 AM on August 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
OP, I probably have a similar background (not the examples, but I had/have passions that no one else in my family had, and not only got an undergrad degree but a graduate degree and I realize that some family members have absolutely no idea as to what I do or did. I also wondered early in grad school if people who had family members with similar backgrounds would do better. However, throughout life, my conclusion is completely different.
My first way of viewing this is just viewing whatever I have (family is part of this) as a deck of cards, and everyone in life starts with their deck of cards. Some of these things are advantages, some are disadvantages, but you probably have some positive things in that deck. Ultimately, actually not getting the things you want early in life may be an advantage; I know that I (and others) really, really wanted (insert whatever you want here, graduate degree, an experience or experiences) and not being able to have it at an earlier point of life really pushed me harder to get those things.I’ve even noticed that people who grow up with some of the things may have much less of it later in life…because they did not have that burning desire from earlier in life – so use that drive to get what you want.
My second way of viewing this is that it really may be an advantage to not have that reinforcing voice for everything you do (helicopter parents? Do you realize that some of them even write the essays for their kids to go to college?)—so anything that you do will be completed because your inner voice or self either just wanted to do it or you develop confidence in your own abilities. And if you want to make it as a writer, you may rarely to never get a reinforcing pat on the back.
I also strongly believe that if you want this thing or things, the path lies with you. Don’t blame the past or people in your past. Use the tools you have now to try. Keep on trying throughout life, maybe again in 5 years whatever. I’m sure that you are aware that there are people who study English in grad school, or authors, etc., who started at ages older than you and they beat the odds and made it. Don’t dwell on whether your parents like the same movie or read or don’t read the same books that you value (I noticed in your presentation of the problem that they do read –the newspaper, a book, but perhaps not what you value). Does it really matter? In the end, it almost seems like you too, are judging them.
posted by Wolfster at 10:19 AM on August 10, 2011
My first way of viewing this is just viewing whatever I have (family is part of this) as a deck of cards, and everyone in life starts with their deck of cards. Some of these things are advantages, some are disadvantages, but you probably have some positive things in that deck. Ultimately, actually not getting the things you want early in life may be an advantage; I know that I (and others) really, really wanted (insert whatever you want here, graduate degree, an experience or experiences) and not being able to have it at an earlier point of life really pushed me harder to get those things.
My second way of viewing this is that it really may be an advantage to not have that reinforcing voice for everything you do (helicopter parents? Do you realize that some of them even write the essays for their kids to go to college?)—so anything that you do will be completed because your inner voice or self either just wanted to do it or you develop confidence in your own abilities. And if you want to make it as a writer, you may rarely to never get a reinforcing pat on the back.
I also strongly believe that if you want this thing or things, the path lies with you. Don’t blame the past or people in your past. Use the tools you have now to try. Keep on trying throughout life, maybe again in 5 years whatever. I’m sure that you are aware that there are people who study English in grad school, or authors, etc., who started at ages older than you and they beat the odds and made it. Don’t dwell on whether your parents like the same movie or read or don’t read the same books that you value (I noticed in your presentation of the problem that they do read –the newspaper, a book, but perhaps not what you value). Does it really matter? In the end, it almost seems like you too, are judging them.
posted by Wolfster at 10:19 AM on August 10, 2011
I'm not sure that I always think that people who have super-involved parents have some sort of advantage, but there have definitely been moments where I think it would be nice that what I do was valued more by my family. They are proud of what I've accomplished and the position that I have, while at the same time thinking that it isn't "real" work in some ways. Add to that our political differences and it means that there's just a whole lot we don't talk about. What does matter, though, are just the social things that we share. I focus on that, and remind myself that so many people have to make their own way in the world. At least I had the advantages that I did of a loving family, even if they didn't always agree with my path.
posted by bizzyb at 10:20 AM on August 10, 2011
posted by bizzyb at 10:20 AM on August 10, 2011
I'm quite sure my parents (born in 1938 and 1944) wondered where I emerged from but nthing what griphus said. Today mom said a lot of problems are due to the internet so that's why she tries to stay away from the computer.
posted by infini at 10:23 AM on August 10, 2011
posted by infini at 10:23 AM on August 10, 2011
You realise that you are nearly 30 years old and forgive them for their failings? They were unable to meet all of your unique but unpredictable needs, exactly as you will fail to meet some of your own children's when they come along.
I have long held that the true transition to adulthood is realising that your parents are every single bit as flawed as yourself are. They were not better equipped for parenthood 30 years ago than you would be tomorrow. It's initially disappointing but ultimately illuminating and for me, was the single thing that more than anything allowed me to develop and adult relationship with my folks.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:28 AM on August 10, 2011 [12 favorites]
I have long held that the true transition to adulthood is realising that your parents are every single bit as flawed as yourself are. They were not better equipped for parenthood 30 years ago than you would be tomorrow. It's initially disappointing but ultimately illuminating and for me, was the single thing that more than anything allowed me to develop and adult relationship with my folks.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:28 AM on August 10, 2011 [12 favorites]
You can do what I do: ignore it all. My parents and I are not on the same plane intellectually speaking; that's not a judgment on my part, it's just reality. I devour books of all kinds while my mother reads only short romance novels and my father doesn't read at all. I've never, ever seen him open a book. They're truly perplexed by my artistic pursuits, almost to the point of derision (on my father's part). They supported me while I was under their wings by giving me a place to live and an education. They loved me (and still do, I imagine!) as best they could even if they never understood me.
So now I've got my family-of-choice around me (friends who I've known for years and years and who are closer to me than my own siblings) and they support every tiny thing I do. It's more than enough to make up for my parents' lack of understanding. Do I wish they got as excited about my writing as my friends do? Sometimes, but we're just different people. The fact that they're my parents doesn't mean they have to be my best friends. Some people have that with their families, some don't. You and I just happen to be in the "don't" category.
posted by cooker girl at 10:52 AM on August 10, 2011
So now I've got my family-of-choice around me (friends who I've known for years and years and who are closer to me than my own siblings) and they support every tiny thing I do. It's more than enough to make up for my parents' lack of understanding. Do I wish they got as excited about my writing as my friends do? Sometimes, but we're just different people. The fact that they're my parents doesn't mean they have to be my best friends. Some people have that with their families, some don't. You and I just happen to be in the "don't" category.
posted by cooker girl at 10:52 AM on August 10, 2011
I think the comments above are really helpful, so I'm just popping to add this:
(1) You can't make people into readers. Not really, anyway. cf. this recent article.
(2) I wouldn't call your parents anti-intellectual, at least not from your description. Anti-intellectual would probably involve much more verbal abuse in the form of accusing you of being pompous and elitist... or at least that's my experience with it. It seems to me that your parents simply aren't intellectual themselves—and that's okay! Find another way to connect with them (well, your father), and talk with other people about these things. Your family may not understand your choices, and you'll still get the occasional comment about them, at least for a while (I used to from certain family members, but I almost never do anymore), but that's natural. It's because they love you and want the best for you.
posted by divisjm at 10:55 AM on August 10, 2011
(1) You can't make people into readers. Not really, anyway. cf. this recent article.
(2) I wouldn't call your parents anti-intellectual, at least not from your description. Anti-intellectual would probably involve much more verbal abuse in the form of accusing you of being pompous and elitist... or at least that's my experience with it. It seems to me that your parents simply aren't intellectual themselves—and that's okay! Find another way to connect with them (well, your father), and talk with other people about these things. Your family may not understand your choices, and you'll still get the occasional comment about them, at least for a while (I used to from certain family members, but I almost never do anymore), but that's natural. It's because they love you and want the best for you.
posted by divisjm at 10:55 AM on August 10, 2011
Reading between the lines, it sounds like you're frustrated with yourself. Maybe you feel like there's something wrong with you because you aren't a famous writer by now. And so now you're thinking about whatever it is that's wrong with you, and wondering if your parents are to blame.
But it doesn't sound to me like there's anything wrong with you. You sound like a pretty smart guy with big ideas. You've had some disappointments in your life — but everyone has those. (I'm not saying "cheer up" or "quit whining" or anything. Go ahead and be sad about them. I mean, hell, they're disappointments. That's what you do with disappointments is be, you know, disappointed by them.)
I dunno. My experience was that I got over the teens-and-twenties "my parents suck" thing when I started getting over the teens-and-twenties "I probably suck" thing. So that's what worked for me, and I wonder if it might work for you too.
posted by nebulawindphone at 10:59 AM on August 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
But it doesn't sound to me like there's anything wrong with you. You sound like a pretty smart guy with big ideas. You've had some disappointments in your life — but everyone has those. (I'm not saying "cheer up" or "quit whining" or anything. Go ahead and be sad about them. I mean, hell, they're disappointments. That's what you do with disappointments is be, you know, disappointed by them.)
I dunno. My experience was that I got over the teens-and-twenties "my parents suck" thing when I started getting over the teens-and-twenties "I probably suck" thing. So that's what worked for me, and I wonder if it might work for you too.
posted by nebulawindphone at 10:59 AM on August 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
At some point, you realize you can't really blame others for not accepting you as you are if you don't accept them as they are. They don't need to be dealt with per se, they were never going to meet all your needs anyway and God, they shouldn't. Wouldn't it be weird if they did?
Some needs you'll get met from others, and some from within yourself, but it's still not like looking on the side of a cereal box and going oh, no, Dad's only got 6% of the recommended RDA of intellectualism.
1. How do you take your own intellectual interests seriously when you feel that your parents think it a joke, a distant priority to moneymaking?
I have a lifelong habit of ignoring that sort of thing. I started practicing when I was about ten, and now that I'm forty-two, I'm really good at it.
2. When you encounter helicopter parenting and people who take professional/professorial parents for granted, how do you keep yourself from being overwhelmed by envy?
I find those parents kind of gross.
YMMV
posted by A Terrible Llama at 10:59 AM on August 10, 2011
Some needs you'll get met from others, and some from within yourself, but it's still not like looking on the side of a cereal box and going oh, no, Dad's only got 6% of the recommended RDA of intellectualism.
1. How do you take your own intellectual interests seriously when you feel that your parents think it a joke, a distant priority to moneymaking?
I have a lifelong habit of ignoring that sort of thing. I started practicing when I was about ten, and now that I'm forty-two, I'm really good at it.
2. When you encounter helicopter parenting and people who take professional/professorial parents for granted, how do you keep yourself from being overwhelmed by envy?
I find those parents kind of gross.
YMMV
posted by A Terrible Llama at 10:59 AM on August 10, 2011
you don't mention what your parents' upbringing was like or why they did not complete college. Did they not have time for intellectual pursuits because they were busy raising children and working hard to put food on the table? Perhaps they are not anti-intellctual as much as people who have never had the luxury of pusuing things that may have interested them.
posted by inertia at 11:11 AM on August 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by inertia at 11:11 AM on August 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
So, one of the things talked about in some literacy circles (that is, teachng kids to read and valuing texts) is that some kids come from families where reading and school arent as values as other things. Some kids come from families and cultures and places where other things are valued-- telling stories, building things, taking care of each other, social status, valuing the elderly, whatever. Looks like your family valued traditonal education as a means to an end (make money, live well) but not necessarily as a pursuit of the mind. Fine, I understand that, your parents are/were younger than mine are/were. I get it.
But one of the things we talk about in the context of literacy is that the best way to get people to value reading in school and doing well in school how we want them to is to value what they value, and recognize what they are good at as well. Basic Vygotsky, if you care. Your mom read exactly one celeb biography, but what did she do really well? What can you value? My mom, from the same generation, and of the same mindset, is an excellent cook. She could make anything takse good. She could also sew, and she is wickedly funny. Like, keen social observation funny. Dad also did the read the paper but not too many books deal, but his knowldege of geography and historic events, as well as natural formations seemed to come out of nowhere and exist separate from him.
What about your mom and dad can you point to that is valuable, that you can look at as on par with your value of educational pursuit and intellectual rigor? This is the first step to not only relating to your father, but also making peace with yourself.
posted by oflinkey at 11:39 AM on August 10, 2011
But one of the things we talk about in the context of literacy is that the best way to get people to value reading in school and doing well in school how we want them to is to value what they value, and recognize what they are good at as well. Basic Vygotsky, if you care. Your mom read exactly one celeb biography, but what did she do really well? What can you value? My mom, from the same generation, and of the same mindset, is an excellent cook. She could make anything takse good. She could also sew, and she is wickedly funny. Like, keen social observation funny. Dad also did the read the paper but not too many books deal, but his knowldege of geography and historic events, as well as natural formations seemed to come out of nowhere and exist separate from him.
What about your mom and dad can you point to that is valuable, that you can look at as on par with your value of educational pursuit and intellectual rigor? This is the first step to not only relating to your father, but also making peace with yourself.
posted by oflinkey at 11:39 AM on August 10, 2011
Sorry for the typos. Phone. Dad also knew everything about any sport. Baseball, basketball, both kinds of football, the hockies, cricket, hurling, bocce, lacrosse, yoooou name it.
posted by oflinkey at 11:44 AM on August 10, 2011
posted by oflinkey at 11:44 AM on August 10, 2011
I will nth what griphus said. My parents are anything but "anti-intellectual" - my dad has taught his whole career, as well as teaching and directing Shakespeare. But still, when it comes to my creative pursuits, I don't think he will see what I'm doing as "real" until I am supporting myself with it- and maybe not even then. Although both my parents were born in the US, I often refer to this as an "immigrant mentality."
It is frustrating and confusing, don't get me wrong. The closest I can come to understanding it is this: what I'm doing is just beyond the scope of their worldview. A lot times when something is new and strange to people, they simply refuse to acknowledge its existence. That's where I'm at with my dad. I try to tell myself it's not personal, it's just a little too much for him to take in.
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:45 AM on August 10, 2011
It is frustrating and confusing, don't get me wrong. The closest I can come to understanding it is this: what I'm doing is just beyond the scope of their worldview. A lot times when something is new and strange to people, they simply refuse to acknowledge its existence. That's where I'm at with my dad. I try to tell myself it's not personal, it's just a little too much for him to take in.
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:45 AM on August 10, 2011
how you deal with it is that you realize that your parents are people in their own right, with their own opinions and interests. and at nearly 30 years old, you also have your own interests, opinions, and preference for how you want to live your life. that's it. i mean, at a certain point, you need to decide that you aren't interested in getting their approval of your life.
i'm the black sheep of my family. i too got a liberal arts degree (art history), from an ivy league university. both my parents were immigrants: my mother never even made it to high school and my father was actually a teacher back in their former country, but both worked blue-collar jobs here. i was told that i had to get good grades and go to a good school so that i could make money and support myself. beyond that and the financial support to actually go to said university, i never got any real support from my parents with regard to intellectual or creative pursuits—despite the fact that i had, since i was a very young child been either buried in books or art. in fact (and i'm sure this will come out sounding braggy but is not meant to be), i got into two ivy leagues but my parents actually tried to bribe me into going to the local state school. then i went to art school and got another bachelor's degree in graphic design and became a successful designer. i still get lectured by my mother about what i am doing with my life—despite having been in my profession for ten years. she doesn't quite fully understand my work still and i think, now that i work for the biggest athletic apparel company in the world, only just coming around to the belief that i could actually support myself with my career (this despite, again, having done so for ten years, and despite the fact that i possess a nice house and a nice car). to her, because i'm not a doctor or a lawyer or work in business, i'm not actually "working."
it doesn't matter how many times i have a conversation with my mother about my choices. because their not hers, she doesn't agree with them. my choices have been questioned by my parents since i can remember. on the other hand, at times i don't agree with or approve of my mother's choices either. but i recognize that they are hers to make and while i can voice my opinion about them, ultimately she is not me, and i am not her. just like my choices are mine to make and while my mother can voice her opinion about them, it has little bearing on me.
as for the helicopter parents—seriously: nothing to be envious about. they're not necessarily better parents; instead they are raising a generation of very dependent children.
posted by violetk at 12:21 PM on August 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
i'm the black sheep of my family. i too got a liberal arts degree (art history), from an ivy league university. both my parents were immigrants: my mother never even made it to high school and my father was actually a teacher back in their former country, but both worked blue-collar jobs here. i was told that i had to get good grades and go to a good school so that i could make money and support myself. beyond that and the financial support to actually go to said university, i never got any real support from my parents with regard to intellectual or creative pursuits—despite the fact that i had, since i was a very young child been either buried in books or art. in fact (and i'm sure this will come out sounding braggy but is not meant to be), i got into two ivy leagues but my parents actually tried to bribe me into going to the local state school. then i went to art school and got another bachelor's degree in graphic design and became a successful designer. i still get lectured by my mother about what i am doing with my life—despite having been in my profession for ten years. she doesn't quite fully understand my work still and i think, now that i work for the biggest athletic apparel company in the world, only just coming around to the belief that i could actually support myself with my career (this despite, again, having done so for ten years, and despite the fact that i possess a nice house and a nice car). to her, because i'm not a doctor or a lawyer or work in business, i'm not actually "working."
it doesn't matter how many times i have a conversation with my mother about my choices. because their not hers, she doesn't agree with them. my choices have been questioned by my parents since i can remember. on the other hand, at times i don't agree with or approve of my mother's choices either. but i recognize that they are hers to make and while i can voice my opinion about them, ultimately she is not me, and i am not her. just like my choices are mine to make and while my mother can voice her opinion about them, it has little bearing on me.
as for the helicopter parents—seriously: nothing to be envious about. they're not necessarily better parents; instead they are raising a generation of very dependent children.
posted by violetk at 12:21 PM on August 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
I guess I have two questions: 1. How do you take your own intellectual interests seriously when you feel that your parents think it a joke, a distant priority to moneymaking? 2. When you encounter helicopter parenting and people who take professional/professorial parents for granted, how do you keep yourself from being overwhelmed by envy?
I felt this way for much of my childhood and adolescence since most of my friends' parents *were* actual professors, and I felt like a philistine at times because I didn't have the trips to Europe, parents who held chichi cocktail parties, couldn't play the piano, etc.
But... as to #1., I got to know these parents, and their children. I learned and absorbed a lot from them, including many of their interests and values. This is what I recommend that you do. Become friends with a lot of people, including older people, who have the kind of life that you want. Especially who are willing to give you advice, help you find the path, etc. You need a wider sphere of influence and a wider circle of people you look up to than just your parents
As to 2: when you do get to know these people, you'll also see that not everything is as glorious and beneficial about having parents like this as you might have assumed.
-MANY of my friends who were interested in social sciences/liberal arts or fine art were shamed or questioned about it by their parents in the sciences. Even for the parents who would have been fine with a child studying art, I can't even imagine how they would have acted if their child had wanted to *skip college* to be an artist, or, horrors, to enter a blue collar profession. Being an "intellectual" does not mean you think the liberal arts are worthwhile, does not mean you think fine art is worthwhile. It doesn't mean money is not important to you, and you don't judge the relative merits of different jobs on their salaries. It doesn't mean you don't judge the merits of *people* on their jobs, salaries, educational prestige, or intelligence. Though there were so many of these people in my childhood who were awesome, snobbery abounds in those circles. Assholes abound.
-Even the parents who were wonderfully supportive about their child's ambitions royally fucked them up in other ways. Some made their children severely neurotic about their intelligence, and terrified of failure. Some created children who will always be insecure about their credentials and prestige. Some created children who can't fend for themselves in the real world. Some were bona fide verbal abusers. Some were emotionally absent. Some were deadbeat dads. Some of them encouraged their children to do things that really were incredibly impractical or unrealistic and now the children really are skill-less and unable to support themselves. Some of them were super lax about drug use, or did drugs with their kids, and the kids have had lifelong drug problems. The grass is greener on the other side. From what you've written, you got a really good shake, all told.
posted by Ashley801 at 12:45 PM on August 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
I felt this way for much of my childhood and adolescence since most of my friends' parents *were* actual professors, and I felt like a philistine at times because I didn't have the trips to Europe, parents who held chichi cocktail parties, couldn't play the piano, etc.
But... as to #1., I got to know these parents, and their children. I learned and absorbed a lot from them, including many of their interests and values. This is what I recommend that you do. Become friends with a lot of people, including older people, who have the kind of life that you want. Especially who are willing to give you advice, help you find the path, etc. You need a wider sphere of influence and a wider circle of people you look up to than just your parents
As to 2: when you do get to know these people, you'll also see that not everything is as glorious and beneficial about having parents like this as you might have assumed.
-MANY of my friends who were interested in social sciences/liberal arts or fine art were shamed or questioned about it by their parents in the sciences. Even for the parents who would have been fine with a child studying art, I can't even imagine how they would have acted if their child had wanted to *skip college* to be an artist, or, horrors, to enter a blue collar profession. Being an "intellectual" does not mean you think the liberal arts are worthwhile, does not mean you think fine art is worthwhile. It doesn't mean money is not important to you, and you don't judge the relative merits of different jobs on their salaries. It doesn't mean you don't judge the merits of *people* on their jobs, salaries, educational prestige, or intelligence. Though there were so many of these people in my childhood who were awesome, snobbery abounds in those circles. Assholes abound.
-Even the parents who were wonderfully supportive about their child's ambitions royally fucked them up in other ways. Some made their children severely neurotic about their intelligence, and terrified of failure. Some created children who will always be insecure about their credentials and prestige. Some created children who can't fend for themselves in the real world. Some were bona fide verbal abusers. Some were emotionally absent. Some were deadbeat dads. Some of them encouraged their children to do things that really were incredibly impractical or unrealistic and now the children really are skill-less and unable to support themselves. Some of them were super lax about drug use, or did drugs with their kids, and the kids have had lifelong drug problems. The grass is greener on the other side. From what you've written, you got a really good shake, all told.
posted by Ashley801 at 12:45 PM on August 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
I detect a current of judging your parents for being who they are and not, well, you. I felt this way too, sometimes, while I was in college, and of course it's frustrating when you feel like you can't talk to your parents about things you think are important.
It's helped me as I get older to think about the relative lack of choices my parents had. I'm the first person in my family who went to college. My mother got married right out of high school. She was from a working-class family and I don't think it ever occurred to her that it was possible to go to college - or if it did it seemed so expensive and insurmountable as to be totally frivolous unless you knew right then what you wanted to be. When you think about it, the freedom to go to a four-year college and 'figure out what you want to do' is an amazing luxury. When you're working class, money is everything. They nag you about making money because money=freedom from worry to them, and they want you to have a better life than they did.
I think of all the years my mom spent picking me up from after-school activities, spending money for me to try soccer and dance and whatever else. I'm not very maternal but it blows my mind that someone would spend all that time and money on their kid just because they want you to be happy. Did your parents pay for you to go to college? That's an amazing gift, even if they don't really "get" what you're doing.
1. How do you take your own intellectual interests seriously when you feel that your parents think it a joke, a distant priority to moneymaking?
You realize that you are not your parents, and that's OK, and that your interests and goals are no more noble than someone whose goal was to raise a successful, financially stable family.
I might recommend this book, if you're interested, about academics from working-class families. A lot of it is about balancing "home life" and "school life" I cried the first time I read it. It was so relieving to know other people felt the way I did.
posted by nakedmolerats at 12:52 PM on August 10, 2011
It's helped me as I get older to think about the relative lack of choices my parents had. I'm the first person in my family who went to college. My mother got married right out of high school. She was from a working-class family and I don't think it ever occurred to her that it was possible to go to college - or if it did it seemed so expensive and insurmountable as to be totally frivolous unless you knew right then what you wanted to be. When you think about it, the freedom to go to a four-year college and 'figure out what you want to do' is an amazing luxury. When you're working class, money is everything. They nag you about making money because money=freedom from worry to them, and they want you to have a better life than they did.
I think of all the years my mom spent picking me up from after-school activities, spending money for me to try soccer and dance and whatever else. I'm not very maternal but it blows my mind that someone would spend all that time and money on their kid just because they want you to be happy. Did your parents pay for you to go to college? That's an amazing gift, even if they don't really "get" what you're doing.
1. How do you take your own intellectual interests seriously when you feel that your parents think it a joke, a distant priority to moneymaking?
You realize that you are not your parents, and that's OK, and that your interests and goals are no more noble than someone whose goal was to raise a successful, financially stable family.
I might recommend this book, if you're interested, about academics from working-class families. A lot of it is about balancing "home life" and "school life" I cried the first time I read it. It was so relieving to know other people felt the way I did.
posted by nakedmolerats at 12:52 PM on August 10, 2011
To kind of tl;dr my answer, it might be a lot harder to take your own ambition seriously when it's your brilliant, terrifying chemist father giving you a dressing down for your total stupidity, than when it's your generally kind and loving, celebrity-following mother asking about whether you'll make enough money.
posted by Ashley801 at 12:57 PM on August 10, 2011
posted by Ashley801 at 12:57 PM on August 10, 2011
Maybe you just didn't *see* them reading-don't assume that as soon as you left the room they just sat down and stared at the wall until you came back. I play violent video games with my SO after both kids are in bed (b/c they are too young to explain fake violence, games are not real, etc etc), and if you were to ask my 6 year old if I played video games she's say no b/c that is *her* perception.
posted by Frosted Cactus at 1:18 PM on August 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Frosted Cactus at 1:18 PM on August 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
The most important thing to realize about parents is that there is absolutely nothing you can do about them. — Metropolitan (1990)
posted by exphysicist345 at 1:31 PM on August 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by exphysicist345 at 1:31 PM on August 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
I think we are, by nature, self-absorbed and that's part of the problem. Your question seems to imply that your parents can't accept *you* for *your* opinions, yet you don't seem to accept *them* for *their* opinions.
The reality is, your life has diverged from theirs, which isn't a moral issue - it isn't a good thing or a bad thing, it is just the way things go because we are all individuals. You are now an adults and free to pursue the things you enjoy. Yes, your parents will still criticize you, but you already know that, which gives you the refreshing liberty to ignore their criticisms.
The first time I met my wife's parents, I had just changed from being a Mathematics major to a Communications/Journalism major in college. They asked "So what are you going to do for a living?" It was a serious question, because they didn't want their daughter to be married to a starving artist. I didn't know what I wanted to do - but I knew that whatever I chose to do I would succeed at. So I told them that. "Yes, but writers don't make much money. How are you going to provide for a family?"
It took a while, but 14 years later I am a writer and have a stable career. Even though they were outspoken with their distaste for my career choice, I didn't let it make me angry. I just worked hard to prove them wrong.
So keep reading. Enjoy your intellectual pursuits. And at the same time, enjoy the parts of your family that make your life better while cutting them some slack on the parts that don't.
posted by tacodave at 2:43 PM on August 10, 2011
The reality is, your life has diverged from theirs, which isn't a moral issue - it isn't a good thing or a bad thing, it is just the way things go because we are all individuals. You are now an adults and free to pursue the things you enjoy. Yes, your parents will still criticize you, but you already know that, which gives you the refreshing liberty to ignore their criticisms.
The first time I met my wife's parents, I had just changed from being a Mathematics major to a Communications/Journalism major in college. They asked "So what are you going to do for a living?" It was a serious question, because they didn't want their daughter to be married to a starving artist. I didn't know what I wanted to do - but I knew that whatever I chose to do I would succeed at. So I told them that. "Yes, but writers don't make much money. How are you going to provide for a family?"
It took a while, but 14 years later I am a writer and have a stable career. Even though they were outspoken with their distaste for my career choice, I didn't let it make me angry. I just worked hard to prove them wrong.
So keep reading. Enjoy your intellectual pursuits. And at the same time, enjoy the parts of your family that make your life better while cutting them some slack on the parts that don't.
posted by tacodave at 2:43 PM on August 10, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by papayaninja at 9:50 AM on August 10, 2011 [2 favorites]