Breaking up my child’s best friend’s mother
January 31, 2023 3:11 AM Subscribe
My on-again off-again friend has called to try to mend fences. I don’t want to. But she is the mother of my son’s best friend…
Longer version: the kids are both six. We met during the pandemic and bonded over similar life situations. When it’s been good, it’s been good. When it’s been not good (she is bipolar and that’s been a thing) it’s been hugely damaging for both kid and me.
We last saw them in August, during which something was going on with her, she went off the deep end and spent a few days spewing insults at me over text, finally told me my kid was just as unlikeable as I was and would never have any friends, and I blocked her. I thought that was it.
My son has not gotten over it, repeatedly asks about his buddy etc. I’ve managed it as well as possible (he’s at a different school, they live farther away, whatever reason) but he hadn’t let it go. She called yesterday to try to mend fences because her kid misses mine. He heard her on the voicemail, clapped and declared ‘I knew it! Real friends come back!’
I don’t want to crush his beautiful, generous, little spirit. But here’s the dilemma I can’t get over. If it was just about me, I would drop her in a heartbeat. The drama just isn’t worth it. I know it’s not her fault that she is the way she is, but I don’t deal very well with this kind of hot and cold behavior. However, the kids are a wrinkle. My son would be devastated. I feel like this is the first time I am being asked to confront a difference between the wishes of my child, and my own well-being, and I’m not sure how to make that choice.
Longer version: the kids are both six. We met during the pandemic and bonded over similar life situations. When it’s been good, it’s been good. When it’s been not good (she is bipolar and that’s been a thing) it’s been hugely damaging for both kid and me.
We last saw them in August, during which something was going on with her, she went off the deep end and spent a few days spewing insults at me over text, finally told me my kid was just as unlikeable as I was and would never have any friends, and I blocked her. I thought that was it.
My son has not gotten over it, repeatedly asks about his buddy etc. I’ve managed it as well as possible (he’s at a different school, they live farther away, whatever reason) but he hadn’t let it go. She called yesterday to try to mend fences because her kid misses mine. He heard her on the voicemail, clapped and declared ‘I knew it! Real friends come back!’
I don’t want to crush his beautiful, generous, little spirit. But here’s the dilemma I can’t get over. If it was just about me, I would drop her in a heartbeat. The drama just isn’t worth it. I know it’s not her fault that she is the way she is, but I don’t deal very well with this kind of hot and cold behavior. However, the kids are a wrinkle. My son would be devastated. I feel like this is the first time I am being asked to confront a difference between the wishes of my child, and my own well-being, and I’m not sure how to make that choice.
You are not your child, so your child's friends do not need to be your friends, let alone your child's friends' mothers.
I feel like this is the first time I am being asked to confront a difference between the wishes of my child, and my own well-being, and I’m not sure how to make that choice.
This won't be the last time you're faced with options that are good for your kid and bad for you; as the magnet on the door of my fridge reminds me daily, the first forty years of parenting are the hardest.
As far as general policy goes, my own has always been to act in the best interests of my kids, and when (as often happens) that comes at a personal cost to me, then I just need to double down on self-care. As the adult in this picture, I'm in a much better position to provide self-care than my kids are.
In this specific circumstance I would be attempting to organize ways for kiddo and buddy to spend time together that didn't require me to spend much time interacting with she whose behaviour grinds me down. Perhaps you could suggest to kiddo that they could invite buddy to come to our house after school any time they liked, and then you could give buddy a lift home after if they needed one.
posted by flabdablet at 3:37 AM on January 31, 2023 [7 favorites]
I feel like this is the first time I am being asked to confront a difference between the wishes of my child, and my own well-being, and I’m not sure how to make that choice.
This won't be the last time you're faced with options that are good for your kid and bad for you; as the magnet on the door of my fridge reminds me daily, the first forty years of parenting are the hardest.
As far as general policy goes, my own has always been to act in the best interests of my kids, and when (as often happens) that comes at a personal cost to me, then I just need to double down on self-care. As the adult in this picture, I'm in a much better position to provide self-care than my kids are.
In this specific circumstance I would be attempting to organize ways for kiddo and buddy to spend time together that didn't require me to spend much time interacting with she whose behaviour grinds me down. Perhaps you could suggest to kiddo that they could invite buddy to come to our house after school any time they liked, and then you could give buddy a lift home after if they needed one.
posted by flabdablet at 3:37 AM on January 31, 2023 [7 favorites]
Can you go to see something passive, like a movie, where you have to sit silently? That would minimize the interaction and reduce the chances of drama.
posted by wenestvedt at 3:38 AM on January 31, 2023
posted by wenestvedt at 3:38 AM on January 31, 2023
Honestly, your kid will get over it sooner rather than later. It's been four months. In another couple he'll have moved past it. Sounds like he's fine at making friends. At his age, kids have lots of friends that they have to move on from. Maybe not all their cohort moved from pre-school to the same school, or maybe the mother and child group has drifted apart, or people have moved away etc.
I think in this situation you should make the decision that's best for you rather than have to contort yourself into weird situations. Drop, move on. Plenty of other people out there for both of you.
posted by Hartster at 3:44 AM on January 31, 2023 [12 favorites]
I think in this situation you should make the decision that's best for you rather than have to contort yourself into weird situations. Drop, move on. Plenty of other people out there for both of you.
posted by Hartster at 3:44 AM on January 31, 2023 [12 favorites]
Seconding the idea of a neutral activity, if that’s feasible.
As hard as it is - and this is hard - we as parents are here to teach our children skills that they will need for a lifetime. Modeling making hard choices to avoid someone because they have said ‘mean, awful things to me to try to make me feel bad about myself and they wouldn’t stop when I asked them to” is a wildly important life lesson. You can reiterate that it’s not about the child, that it’s about the mom, and that it is a hard and complicated situation and that you think about it a lot, and you know there isn’t an easy answer that doesn’t make someone sad, but that your family will always stick together when someone in the family is being hurt by someone else.
If the situation were reversed - if you had a dear friend who had a child or spouse or relative that was cruel to your child - you would want your child to speak up and know that you would protect them from those interactions. You have an opportunity to set that framework now.
And yes, this is not a safe person to leave your child with.
posted by Silvery Fish at 3:49 AM on January 31, 2023 [13 favorites]
As hard as it is - and this is hard - we as parents are here to teach our children skills that they will need for a lifetime. Modeling making hard choices to avoid someone because they have said ‘mean, awful things to me to try to make me feel bad about myself and they wouldn’t stop when I asked them to” is a wildly important life lesson. You can reiterate that it’s not about the child, that it’s about the mom, and that it is a hard and complicated situation and that you think about it a lot, and you know there isn’t an easy answer that doesn’t make someone sad, but that your family will always stick together when someone in the family is being hurt by someone else.
If the situation were reversed - if you had a dear friend who had a child or spouse or relative that was cruel to your child - you would want your child to speak up and know that you would protect them from those interactions. You have an opportunity to set that framework now.
And yes, this is not a safe person to leave your child with.
posted by Silvery Fish at 3:49 AM on January 31, 2023 [13 favorites]
Honestly, your kid will get over it sooner rather than later. It's been four months. In another couple he'll have moved past it.
I still remember slights from grade school friends and I am fifty-three. Kids are resilient, but they are also capable of forming deep friendships; don't just tell yourself that "they'll get over it".
Nthing the point that "your child can be friends with the other child without you being friends with the mom." I would tell the other mother that you're open to letting your kids play, because they're close friends, but as for the two of you, let's just keep things polite-but-civil for now, and maybe find a joint activity in neutral ground the kids can do together (t-ball, a kids' art class, etc.) so the kids can still see each other but you two don't have to.
You can have a polite-but-civil-and-distant boundary with HER while still letting your kids have his friend. Your relationship with the mother is different from the kids' relationship with each other.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:54 AM on January 31, 2023 [56 favorites]
I still remember slights from grade school friends and I am fifty-three. Kids are resilient, but they are also capable of forming deep friendships; don't just tell yourself that "they'll get over it".
Nthing the point that "your child can be friends with the other child without you being friends with the mom." I would tell the other mother that you're open to letting your kids play, because they're close friends, but as for the two of you, let's just keep things polite-but-civil for now, and maybe find a joint activity in neutral ground the kids can do together (t-ball, a kids' art class, etc.) so the kids can still see each other but you two don't have to.
You can have a polite-but-civil-and-distant boundary with HER while still letting your kids have his friend. Your relationship with the mother is different from the kids' relationship with each other.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:54 AM on January 31, 2023 [56 favorites]
Cut off contact. It will hurt your kid, no doubt. But she cannot be trusted to be connected with your kid in any way. Texting insults as she did is more than hot and cold behavior. At best, you'll be held hostage to your kid's friendship. This is bad for all involved, but it's out of your control as long as she's involved in the children's relationship.
posted by 2N2222 at 4:20 AM on January 31, 2023 [15 favorites]
posted by 2N2222 at 4:20 AM on January 31, 2023 [15 favorites]
I'm stunned at how many people are advocating for cutting your kid off from his friend, but that highlights a decision you have to make: you're either in or out of the camp that allows tolerating difficult circumstances for the sake of your kid's friendship.
My god I do not miss those years. When my kids were little, I had just met their dad and walked into the experience of becoming stepdad to kids who had been growing up in a kind of white flight suburbia that makes my skin crawl. I can recount with a visceral sense of revulsion the many times I found myself in situations like this, smooshed into contact with people I would never voluntarily spend time with. But my kids and my kids' friends were cool. Their parents and family weren't in their control. Even better, those kids wanted to spend time with us, which I like to think helped expose them to patterns different than what they had available at home. Some of those kids, in their young adulthood, eventually expressed gratitude for that. I'm squarely on team figure-out-a-tolerable-middle-ground. The effort won't be lost on the impressionable young uns. And if your kid's friendship fizzles, so be it. You gave them an opportunity and that's better than lingering wonder about what could have been.
(I would also mention that I had to pull aside one small group of parents to let them know that my presence was just that, and I'd keep up a good face if they would but otherwise let's just be convivially in the same space and not pretend to want to have anything beyond small talk—this was right as Prop 8 in California had just passed. On more than one occasion parents in that group tried to make amends with me, and I still feel guilty about this but I was so fuming mad at them that I resisted them for the years and years we lived around one another. On the other hand, it got me through it! Feel free to make your needs as crystal clear as possible and see if that helps you navigate whatever comes next, if you move in this direction).
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 4:33 AM on January 31, 2023 [10 favorites]
My god I do not miss those years. When my kids were little, I had just met their dad and walked into the experience of becoming stepdad to kids who had been growing up in a kind of white flight suburbia that makes my skin crawl. I can recount with a visceral sense of revulsion the many times I found myself in situations like this, smooshed into contact with people I would never voluntarily spend time with. But my kids and my kids' friends were cool. Their parents and family weren't in their control. Even better, those kids wanted to spend time with us, which I like to think helped expose them to patterns different than what they had available at home. Some of those kids, in their young adulthood, eventually expressed gratitude for that. I'm squarely on team figure-out-a-tolerable-middle-ground. The effort won't be lost on the impressionable young uns. And if your kid's friendship fizzles, so be it. You gave them an opportunity and that's better than lingering wonder about what could have been.
(I would also mention that I had to pull aside one small group of parents to let them know that my presence was just that, and I'd keep up a good face if they would but otherwise let's just be convivially in the same space and not pretend to want to have anything beyond small talk—this was right as Prop 8 in California had just passed. On more than one occasion parents in that group tried to make amends with me, and I still feel guilty about this but I was so fuming mad at them that I resisted them for the years and years we lived around one another. On the other hand, it got me through it! Feel free to make your needs as crystal clear as possible and see if that helps you navigate whatever comes next, if you move in this direction).
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 4:33 AM on January 31, 2023 [10 favorites]
... finally told me my kid was just as unlikeable as I was and would never have any friends....
This is a hard line in the sand. Bring on the momma bear.
Childhood friends move away, switch schools, become involved in different interests, etc. This is normal. Not all friendships last for years, and some of them will end abruptly and with no closure.
Instead of focusing on this friendship, spend more energy on other relationships your child has at school, in the neighborhood, at sports or clubs that your child is interested in, at your house of worship, etc.
If your child asks why, tell him that you don't get along with the child's mother and that you are concerned about her behavior around him, whether you are present or not. This is honest, and it shows that you have his back in an awkward situation.
This will not always be possible at places where you cannot step away from adults bringing the drama and involving your child. But in this case you do not need to overthink it.
I feel like this is the first time I am being asked to confront a difference between the wishes of my child, and my own well-being.
No, you are protecting your child from someone who is liable to say or do something that can never be undone.
Trust your gut and keep your distance.
posted by TrishaU at 4:44 AM on January 31, 2023 [22 favorites]
This is a hard line in the sand. Bring on the momma bear.
Childhood friends move away, switch schools, become involved in different interests, etc. This is normal. Not all friendships last for years, and some of them will end abruptly and with no closure.
Instead of focusing on this friendship, spend more energy on other relationships your child has at school, in the neighborhood, at sports or clubs that your child is interested in, at your house of worship, etc.
If your child asks why, tell him that you don't get along with the child's mother and that you are concerned about her behavior around him, whether you are present or not. This is honest, and it shows that you have his back in an awkward situation.
This will not always be possible at places where you cannot step away from adults bringing the drama and involving your child. But in this case you do not need to overthink it.
I feel like this is the first time I am being asked to confront a difference between the wishes of my child, and my own well-being.
No, you are protecting your child from someone who is liable to say or do something that can never be undone.
Trust your gut and keep your distance.
posted by TrishaU at 4:44 AM on January 31, 2023 [22 favorites]
What has changed that would allow you to trust she won’t sever ties again, weeks or months later? I get wanting to find a way for your kid and his buddy to reconnect. Still, it’s worth thinking about the possibility of repeating the whole thing and once again having to deal with your own hurt feelings as well as supporting your kid through the abrupt loss of a friendship.
posted by theotherdurassister at 4:47 AM on January 31, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by theotherdurassister at 4:47 AM on January 31, 2023 [8 favorites]
Over this past summer, I massively offended the parent of my kid's best friend by giving their child a covid test without first checking with them. (There were extenuating circumstances, in my defense, but it is what it is.)
Anyway, the parent sent me one snippy text, I apologized but they never responded to my apology, and for a few days I was afraid this parent might not allow their kid to hang out with my kid anymore. But all they did was stop allowing their kid to hang out with my kid *at my house*. The parent doesn't trust *me*, so they're taking it out on *me*. My kid is allowed to go over to their house anytime, the kids are allowed to hang out at school, and recently the kids decided to take an art class together for six weeks, etc. etc. The parent doesn't even make eye contact with me when I see them drop their kid off at the art class. He fucking hates my guts, that much is clear, lol. But I really respect the fact that he is letting the kids be friends without interfering in the friendship.
So: try doing that? Let the kids be friends? You don't have to be "involved" with the parents at all (beyond texting for logistics of pickup and dropoff) for that to happen. In your case, as insurance, I would also suggest having a little chat with your kid to say, look, the parent of their best friend can be a little irrational sometimes and might temporarily bar them from seeing their friend again at some point, but that's not because your kid did anything wrong, and sometimes adults can be just as irrational or silly as kids are, but hey, let's focus on the now and leave other worries for later, because it's fun time. :)
posted by MiraK at 4:50 AM on January 31, 2023 [11 favorites]
Anyway, the parent sent me one snippy text, I apologized but they never responded to my apology, and for a few days I was afraid this parent might not allow their kid to hang out with my kid anymore. But all they did was stop allowing their kid to hang out with my kid *at my house*. The parent doesn't trust *me*, so they're taking it out on *me*. My kid is allowed to go over to their house anytime, the kids are allowed to hang out at school, and recently the kids decided to take an art class together for six weeks, etc. etc. The parent doesn't even make eye contact with me when I see them drop their kid off at the art class. He fucking hates my guts, that much is clear, lol. But I really respect the fact that he is letting the kids be friends without interfering in the friendship.
So: try doing that? Let the kids be friends? You don't have to be "involved" with the parents at all (beyond texting for logistics of pickup and dropoff) for that to happen. In your case, as insurance, I would also suggest having a little chat with your kid to say, look, the parent of their best friend can be a little irrational sometimes and might temporarily bar them from seeing their friend again at some point, but that's not because your kid did anything wrong, and sometimes adults can be just as irrational or silly as kids are, but hey, let's focus on the now and leave other worries for later, because it's fun time. :)
posted by MiraK at 4:50 AM on January 31, 2023 [11 favorites]
Just adding from hard-earned experience - there’s a big difference between an argument or a difference of opinion and an untreated or insufficiently treated mental illness. I have compassion for the latter, but it’s not a situation where I would leave a 6 year old. Someone who can’t control themselves in text may not be able to control themselves in front of the kids and while it might not be life-threatening it could involve the child being subjected to very scary adult behaviour.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:15 AM on January 31, 2023 [31 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 5:15 AM on January 31, 2023 [31 favorites]
Right, which is why the arrangement you try to get the kids to wide-eyed-innocent the other parent into accepting involves both of them being at your house.
posted by flabdablet at 5:35 AM on January 31, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 5:35 AM on January 31, 2023 [4 favorites]
I would not let my child near an adult who said they were unlikeable and would never have friends. That is a quick road to emotional scarring.
If you can sign them both up for an activity, ok. But do not let that woman be around your child without you being present.
posted by ananci at 5:44 AM on January 31, 2023 [22 favorites]
If you can sign them both up for an activity, ok. But do not let that woman be around your child without you being present.
posted by ananci at 5:44 AM on January 31, 2023 [22 favorites]
Here's the thing- if the kids continue their friendship and do group activities, you may find yourself in a situation where your kid is invited over to poorly-treated-mental-illness-mom's house. There's going to be drama when you refuse. I'm team ditch the whole family and explain why to your kid.
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 6:00 AM on January 31, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 6:00 AM on January 31, 2023 [4 favorites]
Yes, dealing with someone who has a mental illness is very difficult. How sad for your child's friend that they have to live with a mother who has a mental illness that causes her to alienate people so much that it results in the loss of her child's dear friends. How many other friends will that child lose due to the mother's mental illness? I would think that child's relationship with you and your child would help alleviate the pain of living with a mother like that. Yes, sign them up for a joint activity. Also, if possible, see if you can have the child come to your house to play, without the mother coming along. And, of course, always be in the child's presence if the other mother is there!
posted by SageTrail at 6:05 AM on January 31, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by SageTrail at 6:05 AM on January 31, 2023 [12 favorites]
When my kids were 5, 8, and 11, I had to end my closest friendship because her mental health issues had gone all the way around the bend to being verbally abusive and threatening to me. We had been best friends since we met in college when I was 19, and our lives were intertwined to the extent that we saw each other multiple times per week, cared for each other's children for extended periods, vacationed together, were there for each other's children being born, were each other's go-to's for support when having surgery. My friend, her wife, and their two children had been integral parts of my kids' lives since they were born.
I was honest with my kids about what happened. I told them, at whatever level they could understand, that my friend's behavior had changed and that she was no longer able to be a good friend to me, and that I was very sad about it. They didn't just get over it, but they did move on, and in the process, we confronted together a reality of life, which is that not all friendships last.
In your shoes, I might be more honest with my kid. You've been hiding that there's been a rift between you and the mom, but kids are already encountering conflict within friendships. You can help model how that can be dealt with, whether it's continuing a friendship with adjustments, or choosing to end it.
There is a difference, in my view, between putting up with discomfort for the sake of your kids, and allowing yourself to be treated badly. I spent years in gymnastics gyms listening to stage moms critique their own and each other's daughters in vile ways. These are women I'd never choose to spend time with, but there I was in the viewing area at practice, trapped with them. That was uncomfortable.
Active mistreatment or abusive behavior is something else, and you're more justified in choosing not to put up with it. Just, if you decide not to re-ignite this friendship, be honest with your kid about why. Don't let him blame you when it's not your fault, or even let him wonder if the friendship lapsed because you couldn't be bothered. Be honest, and be prepared to help him through the pain of losing a good friend.
posted by Well I never at 6:37 AM on January 31, 2023 [9 favorites]
I was honest with my kids about what happened. I told them, at whatever level they could understand, that my friend's behavior had changed and that she was no longer able to be a good friend to me, and that I was very sad about it. They didn't just get over it, but they did move on, and in the process, we confronted together a reality of life, which is that not all friendships last.
In your shoes, I might be more honest with my kid. You've been hiding that there's been a rift between you and the mom, but kids are already encountering conflict within friendships. You can help model how that can be dealt with, whether it's continuing a friendship with adjustments, or choosing to end it.
There is a difference, in my view, between putting up with discomfort for the sake of your kids, and allowing yourself to be treated badly. I spent years in gymnastics gyms listening to stage moms critique their own and each other's daughters in vile ways. These are women I'd never choose to spend time with, but there I was in the viewing area at practice, trapped with them. That was uncomfortable.
Active mistreatment or abusive behavior is something else, and you're more justified in choosing not to put up with it. Just, if you decide not to re-ignite this friendship, be honest with your kid about why. Don't let him blame you when it's not your fault, or even let him wonder if the friendship lapsed because you couldn't be bothered. Be honest, and be prepared to help him through the pain of losing a good friend.
posted by Well I never at 6:37 AM on January 31, 2023 [9 favorites]
The children are currently 6 yrs old? I encourage having a loose plan for what you will do if the other child were to ever lash out in similar hot/cold fashion or abusive language towards your child. Also, maybe not just neural activities but nourishing adult-led group activities, so both children can develop an array of friendships and see an array of acceptable behaviors and learn from an array of adults how to handle non-acceptable behavior.
posted by beaning at 6:38 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by beaning at 6:38 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
As someone whose mother was bipolar when I was growing up, this scenario makes me very sad.
Your job is to keep your kid safe, but I just wonder how sustainable a 'ditch the family' approach will be in the long run especially as your child gets older and presumably will make friends with many children whose parents who have issues that make them problematic in some ways.
Big yes to signing the children up to an activity that does not require interface with the mother.
posted by unicorn chaser at 6:38 AM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
Your job is to keep your kid safe, but I just wonder how sustainable a 'ditch the family' approach will be in the long run especially as your child gets older and presumably will make friends with many children whose parents who have issues that make them problematic in some ways.
Big yes to signing the children up to an activity that does not require interface with the mother.
posted by unicorn chaser at 6:38 AM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
Six year-old friendships are wild, because they can be intense in a moment, but can also be replaced like a pair of socks.
Cut the cord and put your energy into supporting your kid's other/newer friendships. They'll be briefly sad, but honestly, they'll forget. And you'll be clear of this hot mess and the associated stress.
I mean yeah, if you want, let them be in some of the same activities and hang out that way. But it probably doesn't even matter. Kiddo will have new friends in short order.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:15 AM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
Cut the cord and put your energy into supporting your kid's other/newer friendships. They'll be briefly sad, but honestly, they'll forget. And you'll be clear of this hot mess and the associated stress.
I mean yeah, if you want, let them be in some of the same activities and hang out that way. But it probably doesn't even matter. Kiddo will have new friends in short order.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:15 AM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
In a similar situation (mother of my son's best friend insulting me and my son, making unfounded accusations, toward me and my son etc ) the solution for me was to cut contact and explain to my son why. However, my son was much older, almost 12.
After a year of no contact, contact was revived because both the fathers were willing to facilitate visits. I still do not have any contact with mother, it was too nasty. Both boys are now 14 and friend sometimes visits us, or at either of the fathers but never at the friends mothers house and through fathers.
The friendship had begun when both boys were 5, we met at the playground and after a year of almost daily play dates at our homes and playground, i realised that the mother and i would not ever be friends, but as the boys called each other best friends i facilitated them meeting, at the playground and our home. My son did not want to go to his friends house, and i was glad about that. My relationship with the mother remained tense and was for me always difficult. I swallowed a lot of bad behavoiur from her, on retrospect too much.
But when it moved from unpleasant to unhinged (bizarre texts full of rude stuff, accusations of stalking, accusing my son of stalking, complaining about me to my ex asking him to tell me off which he refused ) i cut it off, in retrospect too late. I should have ended it much earlier.
I don't agree that the children will forget each other. Nevertheless, based in my own experience which i can only superficially describes here, don't maintain this relationship.
Rather i think you need to think about how to tell your son. I have no script as my son was much older and as he had also noticed how badly she treated me so he understood when i said i could no longer be in contact with her. I did not tell him she accused him too of stalking her.
All the best, this is difficult.
posted by 15L06 at 7:19 AM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
After a year of no contact, contact was revived because both the fathers were willing to facilitate visits. I still do not have any contact with mother, it was too nasty. Both boys are now 14 and friend sometimes visits us, or at either of the fathers but never at the friends mothers house and through fathers.
The friendship had begun when both boys were 5, we met at the playground and after a year of almost daily play dates at our homes and playground, i realised that the mother and i would not ever be friends, but as the boys called each other best friends i facilitated them meeting, at the playground and our home. My son did not want to go to his friends house, and i was glad about that. My relationship with the mother remained tense and was for me always difficult. I swallowed a lot of bad behavoiur from her, on retrospect too much.
But when it moved from unpleasant to unhinged (bizarre texts full of rude stuff, accusations of stalking, accusing my son of stalking, complaining about me to my ex asking him to tell me off which he refused ) i cut it off, in retrospect too late. I should have ended it much earlier.
I don't agree that the children will forget each other. Nevertheless, based in my own experience which i can only superficially describes here, don't maintain this relationship.
Rather i think you need to think about how to tell your son. I have no script as my son was much older and as he had also noticed how badly she treated me so he understood when i said i could no longer be in contact with her. I did not tell him she accused him too of stalking her.
All the best, this is difficult.
posted by 15L06 at 7:19 AM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think you are getting very different answers to this question because people are answering two separate questions. I think the real challenge is distinguishing between them.
1) Is it worth maintaining your child's friendships even if you don't like the parents well?
2) Is it important to protect you and your child from toxic people who can do lasting harm?
My kids have friends whose parents I would happily spend time with, and they have friends whose parents I find annoying but tolerate for the sake of my kids. They do not spend time outside of school with friends whose parents I find toxic. This will change, of course, as they get older, but for now, that is the line I draw.
Drawing that line is hard because you do want to honor your kid's friendship.
posted by lab.beetle at 7:39 AM on January 31, 2023 [4 favorites]
1) Is it worth maintaining your child's friendships even if you don't like the parents well?
2) Is it important to protect you and your child from toxic people who can do lasting harm?
My kids have friends whose parents I would happily spend time with, and they have friends whose parents I find annoying but tolerate for the sake of my kids. They do not spend time outside of school with friends whose parents I find toxic. This will change, of course, as they get older, but for now, that is the line I draw.
Drawing that line is hard because you do want to honor your kid's friendship.
posted by lab.beetle at 7:39 AM on January 31, 2023 [4 favorites]
Whatever else you choose to do, I would consider finding a *very simplified/age-appropriate* way to talk about the mental illness aspect with your son so he knows that it’s not about him or his friend. This unfortunately won’t be the last time that someone else’s mental illness ends up affecting him or his life and perhaps you can (begin to) model finding a balance of boundaries/taking care of your own mental health and empathy for others.
posted by needs more cowbell at 8:27 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by needs more cowbell at 8:27 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
The goal, if possible, is to let your kid enjoy his friend, but not expose him to the unpredictable mom.
While I understand the folks who are advocating for the kids to be signed up for an activity together that doesn't involve you, the problem there is that it does allow for unsupervised contact between your kid and the unpredictable mom, at pickup and dropoff time. You can't have that, as she's already demonstrated that her unhingedness does in fact extend to being horrible to your kid.
I would drop an email or text like this: "Felicia, you are right that it is a shame for the kids to be punished for what happened the other day. If you like, I will pick up Randolph at 2pm this Saturday and bring him over for a playdate. I'll drop him home at 5. If this works for you please have him ready to go at 2." You go to the door to get Randolph; don't send your kid to the door.
And see how it goes, and go from there.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:09 AM on January 31, 2023 [4 favorites]
While I understand the folks who are advocating for the kids to be signed up for an activity together that doesn't involve you, the problem there is that it does allow for unsupervised contact between your kid and the unpredictable mom, at pickup and dropoff time. You can't have that, as she's already demonstrated that her unhingedness does in fact extend to being horrible to your kid.
I would drop an email or text like this: "Felicia, you are right that it is a shame for the kids to be punished for what happened the other day. If you like, I will pick up Randolph at 2pm this Saturday and bring him over for a playdate. I'll drop him home at 5. If this works for you please have him ready to go at 2." You go to the door to get Randolph; don't send your kid to the door.
And see how it goes, and go from there.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:09 AM on January 31, 2023 [4 favorites]
A beautiful generous spirit is nice. But it can leave you wide-open to abuse.
Honestly I think this is a good teaching opportunity. By explaining how she is two faced and not safe, you may be able to alert your kid to other people who will be a danger to him in future. This will hurt, and it should, because it's a painful situation. She actively did hurtful things. Protecting him from feeling bad means pretending she's not who she is which is a lie, and endangers him. She does not belong in his life, for his own safety. No, she can't help it. Yes, it is awful for her child. Allowing her to cultivate the friendship only risks making it even more awful for both children.
But this is a good place to teach your child that when someone acts bad sometimes and good and wonderful most of the time they are even more dangerous than someone who acts bad all the time. One day it may be his gym coach who only shows him one pornographic picture once, but otherwise is great and buys ice cream for the whole team. When a hard line is crossed you don't give second chances.
That's the thing. How can you let the kids be friends if you need to never let you kid be alone with her, nor to be exposed to what his friend may tell her she is saying? How can you let your kid be friends with her without ever contacting her? How can you interact with her on an entirely superficial businesslike impersonal level without being sure this will never tip her over into resenting how cold you are and become her trigger for coming in for the attack again? Don't soak it for the sake of your son. That's why women put up with domestic abuse.
Allowing people to have relationships with you that you do not want is how you get stalkers. Your kid needs to know what manipulative behaviour is, and how to spot it. Your kid needs to know that when someone abuses you, the only thing to do is to never let them abuse you again ever.
And it's critical to put up these boundaries before you have anything at stake - because usually the way this goes is that once the kids are committed, she's going to switch to black on you again. At that point you'll have to yank your kid out of the team he's on with his friend, and write off the winter jacket he left at his friend's house, and leave him with no copy of the half finished co-written story he was writing with his friend which had been delighting him so much. And then you'll have to block a whole series of texts where she accuses you of hurting her and demands you drive over and pick up that jacket and how YOU broke her son's heart by pulling your son off that team. All the while your son will be pleading that really Mom, she didn't hurt my feelings THAT much, and oh I just wants to see my friend again, I don't mind if she does that when I visit, because really it was kind of my own fault...
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:46 AM on January 31, 2023 [6 favorites]
Honestly I think this is a good teaching opportunity. By explaining how she is two faced and not safe, you may be able to alert your kid to other people who will be a danger to him in future. This will hurt, and it should, because it's a painful situation. She actively did hurtful things. Protecting him from feeling bad means pretending she's not who she is which is a lie, and endangers him. She does not belong in his life, for his own safety. No, she can't help it. Yes, it is awful for her child. Allowing her to cultivate the friendship only risks making it even more awful for both children.
But this is a good place to teach your child that when someone acts bad sometimes and good and wonderful most of the time they are even more dangerous than someone who acts bad all the time. One day it may be his gym coach who only shows him one pornographic picture once, but otherwise is great and buys ice cream for the whole team. When a hard line is crossed you don't give second chances.
That's the thing. How can you let the kids be friends if you need to never let you kid be alone with her, nor to be exposed to what his friend may tell her she is saying? How can you let your kid be friends with her without ever contacting her? How can you interact with her on an entirely superficial businesslike impersonal level without being sure this will never tip her over into resenting how cold you are and become her trigger for coming in for the attack again? Don't soak it for the sake of your son. That's why women put up with domestic abuse.
Allowing people to have relationships with you that you do not want is how you get stalkers. Your kid needs to know what manipulative behaviour is, and how to spot it. Your kid needs to know that when someone abuses you, the only thing to do is to never let them abuse you again ever.
And it's critical to put up these boundaries before you have anything at stake - because usually the way this goes is that once the kids are committed, she's going to switch to black on you again. At that point you'll have to yank your kid out of the team he's on with his friend, and write off the winter jacket he left at his friend's house, and leave him with no copy of the half finished co-written story he was writing with his friend which had been delighting him so much. And then you'll have to block a whole series of texts where she accuses you of hurting her and demands you drive over and pick up that jacket and how YOU broke her son's heart by pulling your son off that team. All the while your son will be pleading that really Mom, she didn't hurt my feelings THAT much, and oh I just wants to see my friend again, I don't mind if she does that when I visit, because really it was kind of my own fault...
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:46 AM on January 31, 2023 [6 favorites]
To me this is what you need to address:
If the abuse was in person I could see how a compromise could be made, but how do you arrange playdates or joint classes without opening yourself up to further abuse over text?
The solution I can think of is that this needs to be arranged through your son's friend's father or another family member. If she's not open to that then I think that is a big red flag.
posted by muddgirl at 9:53 AM on January 31, 2023 [1 favorite]
If the abuse was in person I could see how a compromise could be made, but how do you arrange playdates or joint classes without opening yourself up to further abuse over text?
The solution I can think of is that this needs to be arranged through your son's friend's father or another family member. If she's not open to that then I think that is a big red flag.
posted by muddgirl at 9:53 AM on January 31, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think you tell your child that the parent of this friend is not safe and has been hurtful to your family. I do not think that a person who unpredictably insults you - as well as your child!! - deserves your time. If she is sick, she needs help, but you don't have to expose yourself or your child to it on his behalf. I'm sorry you're going through this, it sucks.
posted by vunder at 9:53 AM on January 31, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by vunder at 9:53 AM on January 31, 2023 [4 favorites]
Re activity eg swimming together, i would not suggest that. Not because your Kid would be alone with her because i doubt you would send your kid anywhere with her, but because of the amount of directly communicating with her that will need from you: What activity? Where? When? How Long? Transport? My experience with this (see above) is that giving any opportunity for communicating will be a burden on you.
Better stick to the suggestion above that you invite and pick up/return, all on your terms and territory. Alternatively let her know we will be at such and such playground on date/time , feel free to join.
I did this for a while, and it was not ideal als she would agree and then not show up without notice or apology, which was hard in my son.
posted by 15L06 at 9:55 AM on January 31, 2023 [1 favorite]
Better stick to the suggestion above that you invite and pick up/return, all on your terms and territory. Alternatively let her know we will be at such and such playground on date/time , feel free to join.
I did this for a while, and it was not ideal als she would agree and then not show up without notice or apology, which was hard in my son.
posted by 15L06 at 9:55 AM on January 31, 2023 [1 favorite]
Agreeing with the comments above that what you are describing goes beyond simply disliking another parent or feeling like a friendship has run its course. Or letting your child choose their own friends and path. This parent's situation is terribly difficult, but you cannot fix it. And they have demonstrated clearly that when they are not well they are may to interact with your child in ways that are clearly not ok.
It could potentially be a valuable experience for your kind and sensitive child to see that everyone needs boundaries and has the right to protect themselves. That you can really like somebody but if they are not able to keep your body or your emotions safe you may need to make the very hard decision to no longer have that person in your life. And that is the choice that you as a mom are making in this situation. Your son is six. There are still times (like this one) where you as a parent need to make the call.
posted by jeszac at 9:59 AM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
It could potentially be a valuable experience for your kind and sensitive child to see that everyone needs boundaries and has the right to protect themselves. That you can really like somebody but if they are not able to keep your body or your emotions safe you may need to make the very hard decision to no longer have that person in your life. And that is the choice that you as a mom are making in this situation. Your son is six. There are still times (like this one) where you as a parent need to make the call.
posted by jeszac at 9:59 AM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
there’s a big difference between an argument or a difference of opinion and an untreated or insufficiently treated mental illness.
I have a friend with bipolar. I'm aware that is a different situation but just putting that out there. She had a problem where a med she was taking for a short-term health thing affected her bipolar meds and had an episode that lasted a few days which then took a few weeks to fully get back from. If it were me in this situation I guess I'd want to know if this was a situation like that or a situation where she's not managing her mental health well enough.
Not saying you have to interact with her again, you can make your choices. Also not saying you have to leave your son with her, but that it's also possible that this was a one-off which might affect how you are feeling about this a while from now. And... does your son's friend have a father? Are there other ways the kids can hang out that don't require you and your son's friend's mom to hang out? You don't have to be friends with her anymore but I think it's a bit of a leap to saying that your friend and this kid can't hang out. I can imagine having a bipolar parent is difficult, that kid might need a friend.
posted by jessamyn at 11:32 AM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
I have a friend with bipolar. I'm aware that is a different situation but just putting that out there. She had a problem where a med she was taking for a short-term health thing affected her bipolar meds and had an episode that lasted a few days which then took a few weeks to fully get back from. If it were me in this situation I guess I'd want to know if this was a situation like that or a situation where she's not managing her mental health well enough.
Not saying you have to interact with her again, you can make your choices. Also not saying you have to leave your son with her, but that it's also possible that this was a one-off which might affect how you are feeling about this a while from now. And... does your son's friend have a father? Are there other ways the kids can hang out that don't require you and your son's friend's mom to hang out? You don't have to be friends with her anymore but I think it's a bit of a leap to saying that your friend and this kid can't hang out. I can imagine having a bipolar parent is difficult, that kid might need a friend.
posted by jessamyn at 11:32 AM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
I can imagine having a bipolar parent is difficult, that kid might need a friend.
This. Find a way to have the kid over. It's ok to say to the other mom/your ex-friend, "you really hurt my feelings, and I'm not ready to connect but understand that our kids miss each other. [little kid] is welcome here/park etc. for a playdate - you can drop him off.
posted by Toddles at 12:04 PM on January 31, 2023 [8 favorites]
This. Find a way to have the kid over. It's ok to say to the other mom/your ex-friend, "you really hurt my feelings, and I'm not ready to connect but understand that our kids miss each other. [little kid] is welcome here/park etc. for a playdate - you can drop him off.
posted by Toddles at 12:04 PM on January 31, 2023 [8 favorites]
This is tough, but you can make a series of decisions over time as you get new info. You don't have to decide once and then stick to it forever.
My mom was really good with negotiating situations where my friends' parents weren't on the same page as her. Whether it was someone who didn't bother to make a call that she was going to drop me off over three hours late (this was pre-cell phone) or a family where one partner was working on managing agoraphobia and the other was in rehab. She didn't fill me in too much, but I definitely got the message that sometimes it was going to be easy to have a play date with Melly and sometimes it "wasn't a good time for her family."
When I grew up and learned more about about what was going on with my friends' families, I had greater understanding for what my mom was trying to balance. Even if you have a couple really tough moments where you have to disappoint your child, you can be kind, understanding and provide age-appropriate context as you go along.
posted by annaramma at 12:05 PM on January 31, 2023 [5 favorites]
My mom was really good with negotiating situations where my friends' parents weren't on the same page as her. Whether it was someone who didn't bother to make a call that she was going to drop me off over three hours late (this was pre-cell phone) or a family where one partner was working on managing agoraphobia and the other was in rehab. She didn't fill me in too much, but I definitely got the message that sometimes it was going to be easy to have a play date with Melly and sometimes it "wasn't a good time for her family."
When I grew up and learned more about about what was going on with my friends' families, I had greater understanding for what my mom was trying to balance. Even if you have a couple really tough moments where you have to disappoint your child, you can be kind, understanding and provide age-appropriate context as you go along.
posted by annaramma at 12:05 PM on January 31, 2023 [5 favorites]
I think that in these circumstances it's important to be honest with your kid in an age appropriate way. "I'm so glad that X wants to hang out with you. You're pretty great! Unfortunately, X's mom and I don't get along as well as you two - she's said some mean things to me and I don't like hanging out with her. I'd like to find a way you two can hang out, but we don't have to."
6 is not too young to hear that adults have friendship problems too!
posted by corb at 7:42 AM on February 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
6 is not too young to hear that adults have friendship problems too!
posted by corb at 7:42 AM on February 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Obviously this is not someone it’s safe to leave your child with. :( So it’s kind of either you are there, the child comes over without their mum (if so that might be a kindness.) If you aren’t able to do that, it is okay…sometimes we have to put or oxygen masks on first.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:27 AM on January 31, 2023 [35 favorites]