Husband playing with fire - chances *I* will get burned?
August 26, 2013 1:02 PM Subscribe
Husband has always been friendly with women, but never too flirtatious. Husband met a woman in the course of his workday (on his commute) and they struck up an "aquaintanceship" based around their daily metro commute. Things have progressed a bit too far for my tastes and I'm trying to understand his mindset.
She flirted with him, he returned the flirtations. Her side of the flirtations were a bit more bold and direct whereas his were more playful innuendo. But he has shared deep personal sexual information with her about our sex life. About a month into this, she advised him point blank that she was in an unhappy marriage and based on my husband's flirtations and information exchange assumes he is potentially interested in something on the side as well. Hubby avoided a response to this; changed the subject; but kept up the flirting. Another week or so goes by and she tells him she can take no for an answer if he isn't into her but she would appreciate him being clear on where his line is bc his behavior so far is confusing. He tells her he is attracted to her and she is (fill in many wonderful compliments here) but he likes it how it is, friendly hot flirting where everyone goes home to their spouses that they love b/c he doesn't want to screw up his marriage bc he loves his wife. He said many nice things about me to her, and a few "improvement wishlist items". She accepted this answer but made it clear again should he change his mind, she is there for him. He has continued to flirt with her via IM and I assume probably in person as well daily. When we've gone out on dates he's been discreetly texting her (nothing overly flirty but just general chit chat). He doesn't text anyone else M or F like this. On vaca with me, he is texting her a couple times a day. They are talking about going to a movie together, as friends in the coming weeks. She has also been giving him advice on nice things to do for me, FYI.
Both of their behaviors are confusing me. Why is she flirting with him but also giving him advice on nice husbandly things to do for me to make my day better as if she has my best interests at heart? Should i be relieved that faced with temptation my husband said no or concerned that he didn't close that door all the way but is instead maintaining contact with her and playing with fire? Do you think he is seriously considering going over the line with her and just working up the nerve or does he likely intend to keep to the line of just flirting (i.e. boosting his ego) and thinks he can control it? Have you been the wife, the hubby, or the other woman in this scenario and if so what were your intentions ?
I have not spoken to husband about this and do not want to at this point bc I discovered all of this after snooping on his phone. And i want to have a bit of understanding as to what might be going through his mind before I talk to him. That's where you come in.
She flirted with him, he returned the flirtations. Her side of the flirtations were a bit more bold and direct whereas his were more playful innuendo. But he has shared deep personal sexual information with her about our sex life. About a month into this, she advised him point blank that she was in an unhappy marriage and based on my husband's flirtations and information exchange assumes he is potentially interested in something on the side as well. Hubby avoided a response to this; changed the subject; but kept up the flirting. Another week or so goes by and she tells him she can take no for an answer if he isn't into her but she would appreciate him being clear on where his line is bc his behavior so far is confusing. He tells her he is attracted to her and she is (fill in many wonderful compliments here) but he likes it how it is, friendly hot flirting where everyone goes home to their spouses that they love b/c he doesn't want to screw up his marriage bc he loves his wife. He said many nice things about me to her, and a few "improvement wishlist items". She accepted this answer but made it clear again should he change his mind, she is there for him. He has continued to flirt with her via IM and I assume probably in person as well daily. When we've gone out on dates he's been discreetly texting her (nothing overly flirty but just general chit chat). He doesn't text anyone else M or F like this. On vaca with me, he is texting her a couple times a day. They are talking about going to a movie together, as friends in the coming weeks. She has also been giving him advice on nice things to do for me, FYI.
Both of their behaviors are confusing me. Why is she flirting with him but also giving him advice on nice husbandly things to do for me to make my day better as if she has my best interests at heart? Should i be relieved that faced with temptation my husband said no or concerned that he didn't close that door all the way but is instead maintaining contact with her and playing with fire? Do you think he is seriously considering going over the line with her and just working up the nerve or does he likely intend to keep to the line of just flirting (i.e. boosting his ego) and thinks he can control it? Have you been the wife, the hubby, or the other woman in this scenario and if so what were your intentions ?
I have not spoken to husband about this and do not want to at this point bc I discovered all of this after snooping on his phone. And i want to have a bit of understanding as to what might be going through his mind before I talk to him. That's where you come in.
Why is she flirting with him but also giving him advice on nice husbandly things to do for me to make my day better as if she has my best interests at heart?
People don't always do things that narrowly go towards one goal at a time, especially if they feel conflicted about what they want.
It doesn't really matter whether he's considering "going over the line" with her, because for most couples, this is already way over the line. This situation is definitely trouble, and what's more you probably aren't going to be able to relax until you have a chat about it.
posted by grouse at 1:10 PM on August 26, 2013 [10 favorites]
People don't always do things that narrowly go towards one goal at a time, especially if they feel conflicted about what they want.
It doesn't really matter whether he's considering "going over the line" with her, because for most couples, this is already way over the line. This situation is definitely trouble, and what's more you probably aren't going to be able to relax until you have a chat about it.
posted by grouse at 1:10 PM on August 26, 2013 [10 favorites]
I think before we can answer this, we need to know precisely what you mean by "flirting" coming from your husband. Was it overtly sexual, or just emotional?
posted by corb at 1:10 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 1:10 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
You're kidding right?
He's having an affair. For whatever reason, he needs to know that this broad is avalialble to him should he choose to have her.
I'd for sure have a "come to Jesus" discussion with MY husband if I had discovered this.
It would start like this, "Assume I have ignored the common boundaries of propriety and I've been snooping on your phone. What the Fuck Dude????"
I'm not going to berate you for snooping because you wouldn't have done it if you were feeling loved and secure.
Now, since this is just some woman he met on the train, there's no reason for him to continue to contact her. I'd rather insist upon it.
Additionally, he's pre-occupied with her, when he's supposed to be out interacting with you. Yeah, my husband dicks around on his phone too, but it's for sports scores and articles on Cracked, which he then reads out loud to me.
So if you want to stay married, you both need to be in therapy. Singly and together if you can swing it.
Friendly is one thing, hot, sexy flirting is NOT OKAY. (My judgement, yours may be different.)
Do you want to be a Sister Wife? Do you want to be in a polyamourous relationship? If not, don't let the sun set on this.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:10 PM on August 26, 2013 [43 favorites]
He's having an affair. For whatever reason, he needs to know that this broad is avalialble to him should he choose to have her.
I'd for sure have a "come to Jesus" discussion with MY husband if I had discovered this.
It would start like this, "Assume I have ignored the common boundaries of propriety and I've been snooping on your phone. What the Fuck Dude????"
I'm not going to berate you for snooping because you wouldn't have done it if you were feeling loved and secure.
Now, since this is just some woman he met on the train, there's no reason for him to continue to contact her. I'd rather insist upon it.
Additionally, he's pre-occupied with her, when he's supposed to be out interacting with you. Yeah, my husband dicks around on his phone too, but it's for sports scores and articles on Cracked, which he then reads out loud to me.
So if you want to stay married, you both need to be in therapy. Singly and together if you can swing it.
Friendly is one thing, hot, sexy flirting is NOT OKAY. (My judgement, yours may be different.)
Do you want to be a Sister Wife? Do you want to be in a polyamourous relationship? If not, don't let the sun set on this.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 1:10 PM on August 26, 2013 [43 favorites]
Sorry you're going through this. He's having an emotional affair and you had better call him on it before it turns physical. He's basically right at the edge of the cliff now.
posted by resurrexit at 1:11 PM on August 26, 2013 [14 favorites]
posted by resurrexit at 1:11 PM on August 26, 2013 [14 favorites]
Your husband needs to get Kenny Loggins on the phone, because he is very much in the danger zone. "friendly hot flirting where everyone goes home to their spouses that they love b/c he doesn't want to screw up his marriage bc he loves his wife" is still friendly hot flirting.
And yes, you kinda buried the lede by mentioning at the very end of your question that you got this info from snooping and he doesn't know you know. You two need to have an all-cards-on-the-table talk, tonight.
posted by jbickers at 1:11 PM on August 26, 2013 [10 favorites]
And yes, you kinda buried the lede by mentioning at the very end of your question that you got this info from snooping and he doesn't know you know. You two need to have an all-cards-on-the-table talk, tonight.
posted by jbickers at 1:11 PM on August 26, 2013 [10 favorites]
NOPE. NOPE NOPE NOPE.
this is a tough situation for you. if i was in your shoes, i would feel incredibly uncomfortable. your husband is texting another woman whom he is interested in continuing a "friendly hot flirting" relationship with while going out with you?
your husband needs to shut it down, pronto. by saying he wants to continue a flirting relationship as well as giving this woman a few improvement wishlist items about you (which, wtf?!), he's stringing this woman along. maybe he's stringing her along until he gets up the nerve to bang her. maybe he's stringing her along because he likes the extra attention. WHO KNOWS. the only thing i know is that this should end now before a lot of parties get hurt.
he can still see her on their commute or whatever - that might be inevitable - but he needs to nut up and make the effort to tell this woman he's not interested in an extracurricular relationship of any sort.
posted by kerning at 1:12 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
this is a tough situation for you. if i was in your shoes, i would feel incredibly uncomfortable. your husband is texting another woman whom he is interested in continuing a "friendly hot flirting" relationship with while going out with you?
your husband needs to shut it down, pronto. by saying he wants to continue a flirting relationship as well as giving this woman a few improvement wishlist items about you (which, wtf?!), he's stringing this woman along. maybe he's stringing her along until he gets up the nerve to bang her. maybe he's stringing her along because he likes the extra attention. WHO KNOWS. the only thing i know is that this should end now before a lot of parties get hurt.
he can still see her on their commute or whatever - that might be inevitable - but he needs to nut up and make the effort to tell this woman he's not interested in an extracurricular relationship of any sort.
posted by kerning at 1:12 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
Do you think he is seriously considering going over the line with her and just working up the nerve or does he likely intend to keep to the line of just flirting (i.e. boosting his ego) and thinks he can control it?
I honestly think that you just need to ask him this point blank.
On vaca with me, he is texting her a couple times a day. They are talking about going to a movie together, as friends in the coming weeks. She has also been giving him advice on nice things to do for me, FYI.
Given the context, this is a huge red flag for me. You need to tell him directly that this is worrying you, and you are entitled to an answer about what he's thinking, and what his intentions are.
posted by ryanshepard at 1:12 PM on August 26, 2013 [5 favorites]
I honestly think that you just need to ask him this point blank.
On vaca with me, he is texting her a couple times a day. They are talking about going to a movie together, as friends in the coming weeks. She has also been giving him advice on nice things to do for me, FYI.
Given the context, this is a huge red flag for me. You need to tell him directly that this is worrying you, and you are entitled to an answer about what he's thinking, and what his intentions are.
posted by ryanshepard at 1:12 PM on August 26, 2013 [5 favorites]
There is so much to unpack here I don't even know where to start.
This is way beyond flirting; your husband is almost certainly in the middle of an emotional affair with this woman, and is hiding it from you. (My jaw also dropped when I got to the part about how you found all this on his phone -- I also assumed he had TOLD you all of this.)
In other words, unless you and your husband have previously and mutually agreed that this sort of behavior is OK in your marriage (and I see nothing to indicate in your question that this is the case), he is already cheating on you; the cheating just doesn't yet appear to involve actual physical/sexual involvement.
You have to speak with him about this. If you cannot speak to him about this, then your marriage has even bigger problems than his affair.
posted by scody at 1:12 PM on August 26, 2013 [24 favorites]
This is way beyond flirting; your husband is almost certainly in the middle of an emotional affair with this woman, and is hiding it from you. (My jaw also dropped when I got to the part about how you found all this on his phone -- I also assumed he had TOLD you all of this.)
In other words, unless you and your husband have previously and mutually agreed that this sort of behavior is OK in your marriage (and I see nothing to indicate in your question that this is the case), he is already cheating on you; the cheating just doesn't yet appear to involve actual physical/sexual involvement.
You have to speak with him about this. If you cannot speak to him about this, then your marriage has even bigger problems than his affair.
posted by scody at 1:12 PM on August 26, 2013 [24 favorites]
Oh boy, that is a disaster waiting to happen.
Why is he doing this? Because it's fun for him - he gets to flirt and build up nice little fantasies in his mind and gets lots of attention, and he probably thinks it's okay because he's not actually having sex with her. It's a freebie - all the sexual goodness without the mess of a full-on affair or relationship.
Why is she pretending to like you while still participating in this affair? Because she doesn't actually like or respect you. She's just acting that way to try to get closer to your husband, to make him think that it's safe to share personal details with her and to flirt with her. She's probably also hoping that it'll eventually get her laid - she can use her "friendly" overtures towards you as some sort of "proof" that she wasn't actually trying to steal your man and it was all his idea/his fault.
posted by joan_holloway at 1:15 PM on August 26, 2013 [45 favorites]
Why is he doing this? Because it's fun for him - he gets to flirt and build up nice little fantasies in his mind and gets lots of attention, and he probably thinks it's okay because he's not actually having sex with her. It's a freebie - all the sexual goodness without the mess of a full-on affair or relationship.
Why is she pretending to like you while still participating in this affair? Because she doesn't actually like or respect you. She's just acting that way to try to get closer to your husband, to make him think that it's safe to share personal details with her and to flirt with her. She's probably also hoping that it'll eventually get her laid - she can use her "friendly" overtures towards you as some sort of "proof" that she wasn't actually trying to steal your man and it was all his idea/his fault.
posted by joan_holloway at 1:15 PM on August 26, 2013 [45 favorites]
Yikes. You are in hot water. This is all caps BAD NEWS. This is an affair; this is how physical infidelity happens.
When you are married to someone you will still have attraction and crushes and even light flirtations with other people. But he had an obligation (unless you're in a nonmonogamous/polyamorous/open marriage) to shut it down WAY earlier. No flirty texting, nothing sexual, etc - because when you start down this path you are risking infidelity. He has fucked up. Talk to him. He needs to stop this and cut off all contact with her.
posted by amaire at 1:15 PM on August 26, 2013 [6 favorites]
When you are married to someone you will still have attraction and crushes and even light flirtations with other people. But he had an obligation (unless you're in a nonmonogamous/polyamorous/open marriage) to shut it down WAY earlier. No flirty texting, nothing sexual, etc - because when you start down this path you are risking infidelity. He has fucked up. Talk to him. He needs to stop this and cut off all contact with her.
posted by amaire at 1:15 PM on August 26, 2013 [6 favorites]
Oh, and as for this:
Why is she flirting with him but also giving him advice on nice husbandly things to do for me to make my day better as if she has my best interests at heart?
...she doesn't have your best interests at heart. She finds it exciting to talk about his marriage and his wife, plus it functions to give a sort of plausible deniability that she's "just being friendly" by "advising" him on how to be nice to the woman he's married to. You know, the same woman she'd be happy to help your husband betray if he ever felt like it.
posted by scody at 1:17 PM on August 26, 2013 [34 favorites]
Why is she flirting with him but also giving him advice on nice husbandly things to do for me to make my day better as if she has my best interests at heart?
...she doesn't have your best interests at heart. She finds it exciting to talk about his marriage and his wife, plus it functions to give a sort of plausible deniability that she's "just being friendly" by "advising" him on how to be nice to the woman he's married to. You know, the same woman she'd be happy to help your husband betray if he ever felt like it.
posted by scody at 1:17 PM on August 26, 2013 [34 favorites]
You need printouts/screenshots/whatever of all of it, because your husband is cheating on you. The fact that it hasn't gotten physical (yet) is of little relevance. You need to protect yourself in case things go sideways.
Document/print EVERYTHING before you talk to your husband about it.
Then, in your shoes, I would say something like this:
"I need to confess something to you. I'm a flawed person, and I made a mistake by snooping through your phone. What I found there really disturbed me and I want to talk about it."
Then, explain in solid, clear terms that he needs to stop flirting with other women because it's not okay with you.
He either agrees, or you know that your husband would rather flirt with other women than make you feel secure. What you do with that knowledge is up to you.
posted by DWRoelands at 1:18 PM on August 26, 2013 [12 favorites]
Document/print EVERYTHING before you talk to your husband about it.
Then, in your shoes, I would say something like this:
"I need to confess something to you. I'm a flawed person, and I made a mistake by snooping through your phone. What I found there really disturbed me and I want to talk about it."
Then, explain in solid, clear terms that he needs to stop flirting with other women because it's not okay with you.
He either agrees, or you know that your husband would rather flirt with other women than make you feel secure. What you do with that knowledge is up to you.
posted by DWRoelands at 1:18 PM on August 26, 2013 [12 favorites]
I was waiting for the part of this question where you outlined what your generalized rules in your relationship are for interacting with people you are attracted to. Because it's a normal thing to be attracted and maybe even to flirt with people of your preferred gender, even when you are in a relationship, but it's less normal (though totally okay in some relationships) to have things get this far. And so, again, I assumed that your husband and you and been talking about this which is how you found out what was going on, but maybe you had a "flirting is okay" agreement sort of on paper but then it turned out in reality you were not comfortable with this. However it seems like you have a more standard monogamous "serious flirting maybe NOT okay" agreement in which case, yes, a "We need to talk" discussion with your husband is in order because it's okay for you to not be okay with this and it's also okay for the two of you to talk about what acceptable boundaries are.
In my world, for example (and I have a pretty standard monogamous relationship) it's pretty much not okay to go to a movie "as friends" with someone who me or my SO are in a weird limerence/crush type of situation with. It's okay to be friends, it's okay to have random won't-act-on-it crushes, it's not okay to do one-on-one type of dating activities. And not like "oh this is a dealbreaker" but more like "that is not how we would behave to build and maintain the trust that we have." and I don't think your husband is behaving reasonably or appropriately and this goes double if he hasn't been communicating with you about what is going on. It's okay for you to want to talk to him about this and his responses, as DWRoelands says, should give you some idea of what to do next.
So, yeah, it's not unusual for a new sort-of-friend to be all "Oh yeah I am really wanting you to be friends with you and help you be a better husband blablabla" but it's usually more about creating intimacy (whether rightly or wrongly) and that can sometime be a path to less-appropriate intimacies later.
posted by jessamyn at 1:20 PM on August 26, 2013 [11 favorites]
In my world, for example (and I have a pretty standard monogamous relationship) it's pretty much not okay to go to a movie "as friends" with someone who me or my SO are in a weird limerence/crush type of situation with. It's okay to be friends, it's okay to have random won't-act-on-it crushes, it's not okay to do one-on-one type of dating activities. And not like "oh this is a dealbreaker" but more like "that is not how we would behave to build and maintain the trust that we have." and I don't think your husband is behaving reasonably or appropriately and this goes double if he hasn't been communicating with you about what is going on. It's okay for you to want to talk to him about this and his responses, as DWRoelands says, should give you some idea of what to do next.
So, yeah, it's not unusual for a new sort-of-friend to be all "Oh yeah I am really wanting you to be friends with you and help you be a better husband blablabla" but it's usually more about creating intimacy (whether rightly or wrongly) and that can sometime be a path to less-appropriate intimacies later.
posted by jessamyn at 1:20 PM on August 26, 2013 [11 favorites]
Research has shown (really! Read Dan Ariely!) that people will _predict_ that they have certain limits when they are in a calm state, but later, when they're in a different situation, they are very likely to cross those lines. In other words, it has been proven, through actual research, that when one is in tempting situations, one's previous predictions about one's behavior don't apply.
This doesn't mean that someone who transgresses in a tempting situation is weak, it means that all people are likely to transgress in tempting situations.
Other studies have shown that planning to avoid temptation is a legitimate strategy that improves outcomes. Smart people do avoid temptation, and it makes a difference for them.
Even in the famous marshmallow study (kids being tempted with marshmallows), the kids who were successful in exercising self-control often did it by consciously directing their thoughts to other things.
All this is to say: your husband needs to understand that everyone needs to avoid temptation if they want good results.
posted by amtho at 1:24 PM on August 26, 2013 [9 favorites]
This doesn't mean that someone who transgresses in a tempting situation is weak, it means that all people are likely to transgress in tempting situations.
Other studies have shown that planning to avoid temptation is a legitimate strategy that improves outcomes. Smart people do avoid temptation, and it makes a difference for them.
Even in the famous marshmallow study (kids being tempted with marshmallows), the kids who were successful in exercising self-control often did it by consciously directing their thoughts to other things.
All this is to say: your husband needs to understand that everyone needs to avoid temptation if they want good results.
posted by amtho at 1:24 PM on August 26, 2013 [9 favorites]
I'm shocked that he's sharing very personal information about your sex life with her. While I understand that people may choose to share some information about their sex lives with a very close and trusted friend, volunteering information about your sex life to a woman who is actively pursuing your husband is a huge problem.
He's not maintaining baseline respect for you or your marriage. All kinds of boundaries are being crossed and now he thinks it's ok to not only text her while he's out on a date with you, but he's also planning his own movie date with her.
She does not have any interest in helping him be a better husband. She's giving him advice on how to create a smokescreen of romantic gestures so that you stay too distracted to notice the affair progressing.
Tell him that you've snooped and that you're quite upset to have found evidence of transgressions. Unless you're in an open relationship (which I'm sure you would have mentioned) this is not acceptable behavior. In a long-term, monogamous relationship, each partner will have fleeting attractions to other people. That can't be helped. However, it's not appropriate to allow those feelings to blossom until you're engaged in an emotional affair and on the precipice of making it physical.
posted by quince at 1:26 PM on August 26, 2013 [36 favorites]
He's not maintaining baseline respect for you or your marriage. All kinds of boundaries are being crossed and now he thinks it's ok to not only text her while he's out on a date with you, but he's also planning his own movie date with her.
She does not have any interest in helping him be a better husband. She's giving him advice on how to create a smokescreen of romantic gestures so that you stay too distracted to notice the affair progressing.
Tell him that you've snooped and that you're quite upset to have found evidence of transgressions. Unless you're in an open relationship (which I'm sure you would have mentioned) this is not acceptable behavior. In a long-term, monogamous relationship, each partner will have fleeting attractions to other people. That can't be helped. However, it's not appropriate to allow those feelings to blossom until you're engaged in an emotional affair and on the precipice of making it physical.
posted by quince at 1:26 PM on August 26, 2013 [36 favorites]
Ditto on what the others have said.
I'd suggest going to the Surviving Infidelity site and looking at the "Just Found Out" section. Because you just found out he's being unfaithful. Lots of good advice there on how to proceed.
posted by Lescha at 1:27 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'd suggest going to the Surviving Infidelity site and looking at the "Just Found Out" section. Because you just found out he's being unfaithful. Lots of good advice there on how to proceed.
posted by Lescha at 1:27 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Mirroring what other people have said - this probably won't end well. You definitely need to talk to him. My jaw literally dropped when I read that he is texting her whilst on date nights with you and whilst on vacation with you!!!
My guess is that he'll go to the cinema with her and will lie to you about his whereaboats.
In my books, THAT'S having an affair.
posted by JenThePro at 1:35 PM on August 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
My guess is that he'll go to the cinema with her and will lie to you about his whereaboats.
In my books, THAT'S having an affair.
posted by JenThePro at 1:35 PM on August 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
Chances you will get burned? Girl, you are already 95% on fire. Enough with the snooping. Shut. It. Down.
posted by like_a_friend at 1:48 PM on August 26, 2013 [16 favorites]
posted by like_a_friend at 1:48 PM on August 26, 2013 [16 favorites]
And i want to have a bit of understanding as to what might be going through his mind before I talk to him. That's where you come in.
He's involved in an exciting, illicit, tempting, yet "innocent" and "harmless" relationship with a woman. But it's not innocent and harmless. Because if it were innocent he would be open about it, and if it were harmless you wouldn't be hurt. Be sure you mention that when he states how innocent and harmless it is. As I know he probably will, because I say this as someone who has basically done what your husband is doing right now.
It's unfair bullshit, and I can almost guarantee you that if the shoe were on the other foot, he'd be losing his fucking mind.
Believe me, from his POV, I get it. It's exciting, and I sometimes miss those surreptitious, sneaky text messages and friendly, but long, hugs with my gal friend. It's adrenaline, temptation, and excitement. With regards to actually, physically cheating, he's not there yet, but, he's doing the two-step on a slippery slope covered with teflon with a fiery pit of pain and divorce at the bottom.
This has progressed well beyond acceptable casual flirtation, and while you totally violated his privacy, this emotional cheating needs to be discussed and addressed, and then get to your violation of his privacy. Try not to let the talk turn into a "how dare you!" litany about his privacy or your mistrust of him. Because that was the exact tack I've taken to turn it back on the accuser to deflect the accusation. Admit that you were wrong, and agree that it will be discussed immediately after you have the talk you want to have, but first things first.
posted by Debaser626 at 2:02 PM on August 26, 2013 [9 favorites]
He's involved in an exciting, illicit, tempting, yet "innocent" and "harmless" relationship with a woman. But it's not innocent and harmless. Because if it were innocent he would be open about it, and if it were harmless you wouldn't be hurt. Be sure you mention that when he states how innocent and harmless it is. As I know he probably will, because I say this as someone who has basically done what your husband is doing right now.
It's unfair bullshit, and I can almost guarantee you that if the shoe were on the other foot, he'd be losing his fucking mind.
Believe me, from his POV, I get it. It's exciting, and I sometimes miss those surreptitious, sneaky text messages and friendly, but long, hugs with my gal friend. It's adrenaline, temptation, and excitement. With regards to actually, physically cheating, he's not there yet, but, he's doing the two-step on a slippery slope covered with teflon with a fiery pit of pain and divorce at the bottom.
This has progressed well beyond acceptable casual flirtation, and while you totally violated his privacy, this emotional cheating needs to be discussed and addressed, and then get to your violation of his privacy. Try not to let the talk turn into a "how dare you!" litany about his privacy or your mistrust of him. Because that was the exact tack I've taken to turn it back on the accuser to deflect the accusation. Admit that you were wrong, and agree that it will be discussed immediately after you have the talk you want to have, but first things first.
posted by Debaser626 at 2:02 PM on August 26, 2013 [9 favorites]
I'm really very sorry to say this but he's already gone. He's just not gotten up the guts to actually do anything physical yet. He has broken his trust and commitment to you, mentally and emotionally. His heart has left the building.
He is keeping secrets from you, he's telling her about your sex life - he no longer considers you his best friend. I'm sorry, but my best advice to you is to contact a divorce lawyer NOW, get your ducks in a row, and then confront him. Because if he truly valued your relationship, he would have put a stop to this instantly. Maybe you can save this with couples therapy, but you need to know all your options before you lay your cards on the table. Protect yourself!
I'm really sorry this happened to you. People are such assholes sometimes.
posted by MexicanYenta at 2:03 PM on August 26, 2013 [16 favorites]
He is keeping secrets from you, he's telling her about your sex life - he no longer considers you his best friend. I'm sorry, but my best advice to you is to contact a divorce lawyer NOW, get your ducks in a row, and then confront him. Because if he truly valued your relationship, he would have put a stop to this instantly. Maybe you can save this with couples therapy, but you need to know all your options before you lay your cards on the table. Protect yourself!
I'm really sorry this happened to you. People are such assholes sometimes.
posted by MexicanYenta at 2:03 PM on August 26, 2013 [16 favorites]
"Honey, someone mentioned to me that they see you sitting with the same woman on your commute. They made some pretty crazy accusations. Who is she? Can I meet her?"
posted by KokuRyu at 2:13 PM on August 26, 2013
posted by KokuRyu at 2:13 PM on August 26, 2013
I think MexicanYenta has a valid point. I would see a divorce lawyer rightnow. If for no other reason that if you two decide to divorce, that you've already got things lined up.
Get as much evidence as you can, but look into your finances as well. Make sure that he can't drain your accounts or any other crazy thing like that. Make sure he's not squirrelling away money or spending any money on credit cards that you don't know about.
Protect yourself first and foremost.
Deal with his trifling ass after you've got your shit together.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 2:21 PM on August 26, 2013 [6 favorites]
Get as much evidence as you can, but look into your finances as well. Make sure that he can't drain your accounts or any other crazy thing like that. Make sure he's not squirrelling away money or spending any money on credit cards that you don't know about.
Protect yourself first and foremost.
Deal with his trifling ass after you've got your shit together.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 2:21 PM on August 26, 2013 [6 favorites]
Have you been the wife, the hubby, or the other woman in this scenario and if so what were your intentions ?
I haven't been any of these people, but a friend of mine was. They were commute buddies. He was married, she not. She had no untoward intentions but did have a crush. He had no untoward intentions but an unhappy marriage.
What followed was drama city, an ugly, ugly divorce, and a failed relationship that has left her crushed.
I probably wouldn't have thought anything about this if you had found this out FROM HIM, but you didn't, so I think my friend's situation applies. This won't end well, and you have to talk to him knowing how dangerous this situation is this for everyone involved.
posted by chainsofreedom at 3:13 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
I haven't been any of these people, but a friend of mine was. They were commute buddies. He was married, she not. She had no untoward intentions but did have a crush. He had no untoward intentions but an unhappy marriage.
What followed was drama city, an ugly, ugly divorce, and a failed relationship that has left her crushed.
I probably wouldn't have thought anything about this if you had found this out FROM HIM, but you didn't, so I think my friend's situation applies. This won't end well, and you have to talk to him knowing how dangerous this situation is this for everyone involved.
posted by chainsofreedom at 3:13 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
Welp, normally I'm with the "see a divorce lawyer!" crowd, but... only you can speak to your relationship boundaries and agreements.
I like the fact that he declined to have a physical affair. I don't like that he texts her on vacation with you. Your mileage will vary. It's your marriage, not mine.
To speak to his mindset, well... marriage is long and sometimes boring! It's nice to be appreciated and flirted with! It's nice to look at pretty people! Sometimes we express those things in ways that are okay. Sometimes people then sleep with other people. We all have different ways of behaving that we might not feel comfortable with our partner knowing, whether it's "I look for two seconds too long at the hot guy who works at the deli" or "I look at porn I'd be embarrassed to show my spouse" or "I spend my vacation texting with another woman who's offered to have an affair with me."
posted by RJ Reynolds at 3:27 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
I like the fact that he declined to have a physical affair. I don't like that he texts her on vacation with you. Your mileage will vary. It's your marriage, not mine.
To speak to his mindset, well... marriage is long and sometimes boring! It's nice to be appreciated and flirted with! It's nice to look at pretty people! Sometimes we express those things in ways that are okay. Sometimes people then sleep with other people. We all have different ways of behaving that we might not feel comfortable with our partner knowing, whether it's "I look for two seconds too long at the hot guy who works at the deli" or "I look at porn I'd be embarrassed to show my spouse" or "I spend my vacation texting with another woman who's offered to have an affair with me."
posted by RJ Reynolds at 3:27 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well, he's having an emotional affair, and the gal is doing what she can to shift it into a physical affair. I've seen this close up more than once.
She's giving him advice re you etc because mistresses usually don't mind being respectful to the wife -- it's understood that the guy has an obligation to boring ol' wifey, and the mistress feels a little sorry for her. Mistress is the exciting one with the true deep connection to the guy, and she can afford to be generous. Also, it brings them closer together - they conspire together re you, the third wheel.
I kind of doubt he wants to divorce you over this, and I wouldn't be surprised if once you confront him and tell him that this needs to stop, it stops. You need to do that today, though. Unequivocally. Fight for your marriage. This is very urgent stuff.
posted by fingersandtoes at 3:40 PM on August 26, 2013 [30 favorites]
She's giving him advice re you etc because mistresses usually don't mind being respectful to the wife -- it's understood that the guy has an obligation to boring ol' wifey, and the mistress feels a little sorry for her. Mistress is the exciting one with the true deep connection to the guy, and she can afford to be generous. Also, it brings them closer together - they conspire together re you, the third wheel.
I kind of doubt he wants to divorce you over this, and I wouldn't be surprised if once you confront him and tell him that this needs to stop, it stops. You need to do that today, though. Unequivocally. Fight for your marriage. This is very urgent stuff.
posted by fingersandtoes at 3:40 PM on August 26, 2013 [30 favorites]
What's his mindset? I don't think anyone here can tell you exactly. I think it depends on what is YOUR mindset, and what the 2 of you define as cheating. I know couples that allow, encourage even 'hot flirting' with other people as long as nothing physical happens. I was the object of this flirting a few years ago at an old job, but his wife knew about it. She and I met once and she even said "oh you are a the girl hubby is hot for--he has good taste!" She was total secure with their marriage and I think flirting with other people revved them up or something. It was honestly just an ego boost for he and I and made a dull job more fun. We never spent time together privately. Eventually it fizzled out, and they are still happily married. BUT, the difference is (besides her knowing about it) I never tried to get him to physically cheat, we just talked about it in the abstract to turn ourselves on. So maybe this started out innocent on your husband's end and he's just gotten in too deep. I'll be the optimist and think this can be saved but only if she backs off. And he absolutely should not go to the movies with her--she's already made it clear that she wants to be more than 'friends'.
"Why is she flirting with him but also giving him advice on nice husbandly things to do for me to make my day better as if she has my best interests at heart?"
She doesn't have your interests at heart. She's trying to come off as a 'good person' to your husband to make him feel more at ease with her, because she wants him. She's manipulating him.
As for the snooping, were you specifically looking for something because there were other signs of him straying? or did you just innocently glance over at his phone right when a text came in, and really had no idea? I think you should be honest about that with him, either way, and take it from there. If you haven't discussed each others dealbreakers in regards to flirting and snooping, its time to.
On preview, yeah, what RJ and fingers say.
posted by hellameangirl at 3:54 PM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
"Why is she flirting with him but also giving him advice on nice husbandly things to do for me to make my day better as if she has my best interests at heart?"
She doesn't have your interests at heart. She's trying to come off as a 'good person' to your husband to make him feel more at ease with her, because she wants him. She's manipulating him.
As for the snooping, were you specifically looking for something because there were other signs of him straying? or did you just innocently glance over at his phone right when a text came in, and really had no idea? I think you should be honest about that with him, either way, and take it from there. If you haven't discussed each others dealbreakers in regards to flirting and snooping, its time to.
On preview, yeah, what RJ and fingers say.
posted by hellameangirl at 3:54 PM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
If this continues, I am almost 100% certain he will cheat on you. I mean nothing more than adding alcohol and an opportunity and he's there. Most affairs start like this, they don't start with people actively looking to get into an affair. They start with people getting swept up in an emotional affair and then in a moment of weakness the walls they've constructed in their mind so they can pretend they are doing nothing wrong come crashing down.
The fact she was blunt enough to propose an affair and he didn't immediately end all contact with her is about as massive of a red flag as you could have. I have no qualms about opposite sex friendships for married people and actually think it's very healthy. However, that all changes when one party is clearly seeking out an affair. It is highly inappropriate that he would continue communicating with her after that came out. He can't feign ignorance or denial regarding her intentions. She isn't just nursing a crush she'll never act on. She wants to have an adulterous affair with him and she's made that known. You can at least appreciate that there is not grey area here.
I would confront your husband immediately and then demand he end it and cut off all contact. Anything else is just unacceptable.
And yeah before confronting him make a copy of all the texts ans emails just in case you need it one day. However I wouldn't advertise to him that you've done this.
posted by whoaali at 4:04 PM on August 26, 2013 [11 favorites]
The fact she was blunt enough to propose an affair and he didn't immediately end all contact with her is about as massive of a red flag as you could have. I have no qualms about opposite sex friendships for married people and actually think it's very healthy. However, that all changes when one party is clearly seeking out an affair. It is highly inappropriate that he would continue communicating with her after that came out. He can't feign ignorance or denial regarding her intentions. She isn't just nursing a crush she'll never act on. She wants to have an adulterous affair with him and she's made that known. You can at least appreciate that there is not grey area here.
I would confront your husband immediately and then demand he end it and cut off all contact. Anything else is just unacceptable.
And yeah before confronting him make a copy of all the texts ans emails just in case you need it one day. However I wouldn't advertise to him that you've done this.
posted by whoaali at 4:04 PM on August 26, 2013 [11 favorites]
anon: "Do you think he is seriously considering going over the line with her and just working up the nerve or does he likely intend to keep to the line of just flirting (i.e. boosting his ego) and thinks he can control it?"
Yes, I think he's making that mistake.
What you both need to know is this: cheaters are not monsters from hell who breathe fire. They are not Hitlers, clearly intent on monstrous things from the start. They are people exactly like you and me - people who have found themselves in situations which ended up with them cheating. Of course we all have moral obligations, and it's on us if we betray the people we love. But every one of us has a breaking point; every one of us has situations in which we will inevitably betray those we love and cheat. If we go looking for it, we will find it.
You're very perceptive to say that he's boosting his ego in doing this. It's clear, of course, that people love attention from those who are obviously sexually attracted to them; but it's more than that. I think there's a kind of narcissistic high that many people get nowadays from the idea that they are morally impervious, that they can handle any situation and do the right thing. There's clearly a power imbalance there - she's said she's happy to cheat, but he's "above it" - and he's probably enjoying that fact.
The trouble is, as I said, if the wisest and most wonderful man on earth tries to trap himself by giving himself opportunities to cheat, he will eventually succeed. He will eventually cheat. He may not want to admit it, but this is a very bad road.
posted by koeselitz at 4:20 PM on August 26, 2013 [10 favorites]
Yes, I think he's making that mistake.
What you both need to know is this: cheaters are not monsters from hell who breathe fire. They are not Hitlers, clearly intent on monstrous things from the start. They are people exactly like you and me - people who have found themselves in situations which ended up with them cheating. Of course we all have moral obligations, and it's on us if we betray the people we love. But every one of us has a breaking point; every one of us has situations in which we will inevitably betray those we love and cheat. If we go looking for it, we will find it.
You're very perceptive to say that he's boosting his ego in doing this. It's clear, of course, that people love attention from those who are obviously sexually attracted to them; but it's more than that. I think there's a kind of narcissistic high that many people get nowadays from the idea that they are morally impervious, that they can handle any situation and do the right thing. There's clearly a power imbalance there - she's said she's happy to cheat, but he's "above it" - and he's probably enjoying that fact.
The trouble is, as I said, if the wisest and most wonderful man on earth tries to trap himself by giving himself opportunities to cheat, he will eventually succeed. He will eventually cheat. He may not want to admit it, but this is a very bad road.
posted by koeselitz at 4:20 PM on August 26, 2013 [10 favorites]
I see that it's time again for Shouraku's Candy Store analogy:
You put a young child on a chair in the centre of a large candy store and tell him that he is not to touch the candy under any circumstances while you are away. You then leave the child completely alone in the store with a view that would not allow anyone to walk in and catch him without him having ample time to completely hide his misdeeds.
In this situation, there are three “basic” outcomes:
1) The child follows the rules and doesn't touch the candy. He may be tempted, but he doesn't budge from his chair.
2) The child sits calmly for a while, but eventually the allure of the delectable treats starts to wear on him, and he has just one little piece. Since the piece of candy was so very good and really didn’t cause any harm, he decided to have just one more until, if left alone long enough, he is gorging himself. He didn’t mean for it to happen that way, it just started small and spiralled out of control.
3) The moment that you leave the store he leaps upon the candy and eats more than his fill, not caring about the agreed upon rules.
In my opinion, your husband is in situation #2. He is having a few slices of this woman, and when they don't directly cause any harm, he allows himself to have a few more. This is how affairs start. Very rarely do you get situation #3, where a person sees someone sexy on a train and instantly shags them in the train station bathroom. Usually what happens is that the cheater never intended for it to get so out of control, but let his will shatter one piece at a time.
posted by Shouraku at 4:23 PM on August 26, 2013 [6 favorites]
You put a young child on a chair in the centre of a large candy store and tell him that he is not to touch the candy under any circumstances while you are away. You then leave the child completely alone in the store with a view that would not allow anyone to walk in and catch him without him having ample time to completely hide his misdeeds.
In this situation, there are three “basic” outcomes:
1) The child follows the rules and doesn't touch the candy. He may be tempted, but he doesn't budge from his chair.
2) The child sits calmly for a while, but eventually the allure of the delectable treats starts to wear on him, and he has just one little piece. Since the piece of candy was so very good and really didn’t cause any harm, he decided to have just one more until, if left alone long enough, he is gorging himself. He didn’t mean for it to happen that way, it just started small and spiralled out of control.
3) The moment that you leave the store he leaps upon the candy and eats more than his fill, not caring about the agreed upon rules.
In my opinion, your husband is in situation #2. He is having a few slices of this woman, and when they don't directly cause any harm, he allows himself to have a few more. This is how affairs start. Very rarely do you get situation #3, where a person sees someone sexy on a train and instantly shags them in the train station bathroom. Usually what happens is that the cheater never intended for it to get so out of control, but let his will shatter one piece at a time.
posted by Shouraku at 4:23 PM on August 26, 2013 [6 favorites]
The problem here is the deception and betrayal of trust on his part.
If he's texting her on your dates and vacations, and sharing details about your sex life, he's betraying you.
If he hasn't told you this emotionally relevant thing that's been going on, he's betraying your trust and is no longer your best friend. As your husband it's his responsibility to share the emotionally relevant details of his life with you. He hasn't done so and it's a lie of omission.
You are in deep trouble already. Lawyer up make printouts, then confront. Maybe with counseling to help you through it.
Your husband should try to understand #2 above in Shouraku's post. The time to stop cheating is before you get one-on-one alone time with the person. Not cheating means not going to the bar or movies. It's not like you go from zero to penis-in-vagina immediately. There are stages in between and those who do not cheat, stop before penis-in-vagina. The problem is that he seems to not understand this.
Though really, the problem is that he has no trouble deceiving you.
posted by htid at 4:37 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
If he's texting her on your dates and vacations, and sharing details about your sex life, he's betraying you.
If he hasn't told you this emotionally relevant thing that's been going on, he's betraying your trust and is no longer your best friend. As your husband it's his responsibility to share the emotionally relevant details of his life with you. He hasn't done so and it's a lie of omission.
You are in deep trouble already. Lawyer up make printouts, then confront. Maybe with counseling to help you through it.
Your husband should try to understand #2 above in Shouraku's post. The time to stop cheating is before you get one-on-one alone time with the person. Not cheating means not going to the bar or movies. It's not like you go from zero to penis-in-vagina immediately. There are stages in between and those who do not cheat, stop before penis-in-vagina. The problem is that he seems to not understand this.
Though really, the problem is that he has no trouble deceiving you.
posted by htid at 4:37 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
does he likely intend to keep to the line of just flirting (i.e. boosting his ego) and thinks he can control it?
I cannot say what is or is not 'likely', but I can say from experience that yes it very possible he intends to keep the line where it is and can indeed do so.
posted by 0 at 4:44 PM on August 26, 2013
I cannot say what is or is not 'likely', but I can say from experience that yes it very possible he intends to keep the line where it is and can indeed do so.
posted by 0 at 4:44 PM on August 26, 2013
You have to figure out how you feel. Would you be able to trust him again? If you confronted him and he came clean and he showed genuine interested in staying married and working it out with you – would you be able to? I ask because you are asking about his mindset, and I think your mindset is not only the only thing that really matters here–but we can only ever guess as to his mindset. He will have to tell you that himself. And by the time he does, you may no longer be concerned with it anymore.
Not everyone would be able to trust a partner who carried out an emotional affair and betrayed their trust. I think the idea of getting your "ducks in a row" is sound but I don't think that means simply finding a lawyer. I think it means possibly talking to a therapist on your own or talking to a trusted person who has possibly been through this before. It definitely means figuring out whether your marriage is at all salvageable. Even if he's very sorry and promises you the moon, is it salvageable? Because, whatever his goals are after being confronted, he has and is betraying you right now. His being "caught" might stop the affair but then not only does he get to take on the task of rebuilding your trust in him from scratch–YOU get to take on the burden of that, too.
I've seen people do crazy things when confronted by significant others about stuff like this. Making sure you know just how you feel about what has happened and are mentally prepared for whatever fallout (sometimes spouses blame their affairs on the unknowing partner; sometimes they deny everything even when there's solid proof, etc) is a solid plan. I'd personally take as much time as I needed to think things out and decide what I wanted at this point–before confronting him. People feel urgency to prevent "worse things" from happening and that's natural, but the worst has already happened. Thinking things through will at minimum bolster you with your own resolve in the face of whatever he might do. I'm sorry this is happening to you.
posted by marimeko at 4:49 PM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
Not everyone would be able to trust a partner who carried out an emotional affair and betrayed their trust. I think the idea of getting your "ducks in a row" is sound but I don't think that means simply finding a lawyer. I think it means possibly talking to a therapist on your own or talking to a trusted person who has possibly been through this before. It definitely means figuring out whether your marriage is at all salvageable. Even if he's very sorry and promises you the moon, is it salvageable? Because, whatever his goals are after being confronted, he has and is betraying you right now. His being "caught" might stop the affair but then not only does he get to take on the task of rebuilding your trust in him from scratch–YOU get to take on the burden of that, too.
I've seen people do crazy things when confronted by significant others about stuff like this. Making sure you know just how you feel about what has happened and are mentally prepared for whatever fallout (sometimes spouses blame their affairs on the unknowing partner; sometimes they deny everything even when there's solid proof, etc) is a solid plan. I'd personally take as much time as I needed to think things out and decide what I wanted at this point–before confronting him. People feel urgency to prevent "worse things" from happening and that's natural, but the worst has already happened. Thinking things through will at minimum bolster you with your own resolve in the face of whatever he might do. I'm sorry this is happening to you.
posted by marimeko at 4:49 PM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
Having once been the other woman in an online romance (long ago, far away, in a different marriage), I can speak to this question:
Why is she flirting with him but also giving him advice on nice husbandly things to do for me to make my day better as if she has my best interests at heart?
1. It helps her assuage her guilt at beinga man-stealing whore the other woman, if indeed she feels any guilt.
2. It makes her look like a good and caring person in your husband's eyes.
3. It keeps their conversations on an intimate, personal level (way too intimate and personal) thus bringing them emotionally closer.
4. It assuages your husband's guilt too... she's helping him fool himself into believing that their intentions were always pure (so that when the affair finally goes real-time he can believe himself when he says "we never planned this, it just happened!")
5. It keeps him thinking about your marriage problems, lest he forget he's not quite as happy as he imagines he could be... with her.
Don't let yourself be fooled into thinking that this woman genuinely wants to help your husband improve his marriage. She knows exactly what she is doing, and looking out for your well-being ain't it, I'm afraid.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 4:55 PM on August 26, 2013 [24 favorites]
Why is she flirting with him but also giving him advice on nice husbandly things to do for me to make my day better as if she has my best interests at heart?
1. It helps her assuage her guilt at being
2. It makes her look like a good and caring person in your husband's eyes.
3. It keeps their conversations on an intimate, personal level (way too intimate and personal) thus bringing them emotionally closer.
4. It assuages your husband's guilt too... she's helping him fool himself into believing that their intentions were always pure (so that when the affair finally goes real-time he can believe himself when he says "we never planned this, it just happened!")
5. It keeps him thinking about your marriage problems, lest he forget he's not quite as happy as he imagines he could be... with her.
Don't let yourself be fooled into thinking that this woman genuinely wants to help your husband improve his marriage. She knows exactly what she is doing, and looking out for your well-being ain't it, I'm afraid.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 4:55 PM on August 26, 2013 [24 favorites]
Look, we don't know if he's going to have a physical affair with her or not. But sexual infidelity is not the only way, and maybe it isn't the worst way, to disrespect your spouse. This:
he has shared deep personal sexual information with her about our sex life
is not a minor infraction that maybe indicates that he's considering sleeping with her; it's a cruelly insensitive betrayal of you that would be terrible even if he were already sleeping with her.
Don Draper sleeps around, and that's bad; but he doesn't tell his mistresses what he does in bed with his wife, because that would be disgusting.
Even if, when you confront him, he apologizes for hurting you and promises that he was never going to go beyond flirting with this woman and that he now understands that it was wrong, and you are convinced that he is sincere – even then, you should be thinking hard about what kind of man he is and what kind of marriage you're in.
posted by nicwolff at 6:20 PM on August 26, 2013 [14 favorites]
he has shared deep personal sexual information with her about our sex life
is not a minor infraction that maybe indicates that he's considering sleeping with her; it's a cruelly insensitive betrayal of you that would be terrible even if he were already sleeping with her.
Don Draper sleeps around, and that's bad; but he doesn't tell his mistresses what he does in bed with his wife, because that would be disgusting.
Even if, when you confront him, he apologizes for hurting you and promises that he was never going to go beyond flirting with this woman and that he now understands that it was wrong, and you are convinced that he is sincere – even then, you should be thinking hard about what kind of man he is and what kind of marriage you're in.
posted by nicwolff at 6:20 PM on August 26, 2013 [14 favorites]
I don't have anything to add to all the good comments above, but I wanted to suggest that she gives your husband helpful tips for all the other reasons other people have suggested, but also to make a team out of her and your husband. A team that makes plans about someone not in the team, ie you, and makes them all the closer.
posted by Kaleidoscope at 6:38 PM on August 26, 2013 [11 favorites]
posted by Kaleidoscope at 6:38 PM on August 26, 2013 [11 favorites]
I second nicwolff - what kind of person discusses deep personal sexual information about their life partner to other 'competing' person?!!
If I were you, I'd gather evidence first, and then practice how you will confront your husband. It is easy to get into the flow of the argument and then the main point of the argument remains undiscussed - especially when the emotional stakes are so high. Write down the two or three things that you absolutely want addressed (could be :"Why did you hide this from me?", "What about our sex life is boring and what has he done in past months/years to improve it. And if nothing then what is his intention behind bringing it up with a stranger" and "Abso no contact wth this woman from now on".
In any case, if you do love him and want your marriage to work, you are probably going to have to make some big changes - for firsts, he cannot under any circumstances think that it is ok to share personal details and go on one-on-dates with other women - certainly not with women who want to sleep with him. Unless you set some standards for him, he is likely to commit this mistake in future even if he stop with this particular woman.
If I were you, I'd also note the number of this Misses Smarty Pants, and I'd ask her to bugger off. Don't let her think you are a walkover. Giving tips to hubby on how to make you happy while she plans to wreck your marriage. Jesus!! Call her in front of your husband and in no uncertain terms ask her to leave you guys alone, else you'll call her husband.
Consulting a lawyer or not depends on other circumstances of your marriage too - how many years are you married? Do you have a lot to loose if sh*t hits the roof? Are you stay at home? Protect yourself first.
posted by Spice_and_Ice at 6:50 PM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
If I were you, I'd gather evidence first, and then practice how you will confront your husband. It is easy to get into the flow of the argument and then the main point of the argument remains undiscussed - especially when the emotional stakes are so high. Write down the two or three things that you absolutely want addressed (could be :"Why did you hide this from me?", "What about our sex life is boring and what has he done in past months/years to improve it. And if nothing then what is his intention behind bringing it up with a stranger" and "Abso no contact wth this woman from now on".
In any case, if you do love him and want your marriage to work, you are probably going to have to make some big changes - for firsts, he cannot under any circumstances think that it is ok to share personal details and go on one-on-dates with other women - certainly not with women who want to sleep with him. Unless you set some standards for him, he is likely to commit this mistake in future even if he stop with this particular woman.
If I were you, I'd also note the number of this Misses Smarty Pants, and I'd ask her to bugger off. Don't let her think you are a walkover. Giving tips to hubby on how to make you happy while she plans to wreck your marriage. Jesus!! Call her in front of your husband and in no uncertain terms ask her to leave you guys alone, else you'll call her husband.
Consulting a lawyer or not depends on other circumstances of your marriage too - how many years are you married? Do you have a lot to loose if sh*t hits the roof? Are you stay at home? Protect yourself first.
posted by Spice_and_Ice at 6:50 PM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
I was the other woman. They're getting ready to cross the line, if they haven't already.
His compliments towards you are part of his seduction process. Like, they're not doing anything all that wrong as long as he holds you on a pedestal.
Holding you on this pedestal also makes them (other women) jealous, making them want to have him more. This was actually explained to me by the man that did this to me. (I know. I know.)
Holding you on this pedestal sets boundaries on their relationship, it holds them at bay, so to speak.
The last part is that your husband is a very accomplished seducer. I would be really really really surprised if he's been faithful.
I'm certain he'll lie to you about all of this, in any event. The guy who did this with/to me REALLY delighted in getting nearly caught by his wife and talking his way out of it.
I'm really sorry.
posted by jbenben at 7:16 PM on August 26, 2013 [8 favorites]
His compliments towards you are part of his seduction process. Like, they're not doing anything all that wrong as long as he holds you on a pedestal.
Holding you on this pedestal also makes them (other women) jealous, making them want to have him more. This was actually explained to me by the man that did this to me. (I know. I know.)
Holding you on this pedestal sets boundaries on their relationship, it holds them at bay, so to speak.
The last part is that your husband is a very accomplished seducer. I would be really really really surprised if he's been faithful.
I'm certain he'll lie to you about all of this, in any event. The guy who did this with/to me REALLY delighted in getting nearly caught by his wife and talking his way out of it.
I'm really sorry.
posted by jbenben at 7:16 PM on August 26, 2013 [8 favorites]
Lawyer up and prepare with all documentation. You are going to need to look at the finances and everything else. I agree with jbenben's analysis. So your heart maybe breaking, but you need to harden it because he is fully cognizant of what he is doing. Take no excuses, make no excuses and take no prisoners.
posted by jadepearl at 9:09 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by jadepearl at 9:09 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
: "Why is she flirting with him but also giving him advice on nice husbandly things to do for me to make my day better as if she has my best interests at heart? "
Based on what you've shared with us: She sounds inclined toward/experienced with intentionally non-monogamous relationships. She is suggesting nice husbandly things for him to do because she not have any problem with him being committed to partnership with his wife. She sounds as if she's been very straightforward about her position. Meanwhile, he's dodging and weaving and being mysterious about his intentions. He's probably getting off on the forbidden thrill of the idea that he could cheat if he wanted while congratulating himself for his good-guy control for not "technically" doing anything "forbidden."
The good news is that if he keeps going on like this, there's a very good chance that she'll get weary of the wishy-washy game-playing sooner rather than later and decide that he's too juvenile to handle an extramarital relationship. Then, he's going to mourn the loss of his ego-stroker and quite possibly blame you.
That's what my crystal ball says. (My crystal ball reflects being on all three of these sides: hers, his, yours, though not in marriages.)
posted by desuetude at 9:34 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
Based on what you've shared with us: She sounds inclined toward/experienced with intentionally non-monogamous relationships. She is suggesting nice husbandly things for him to do because she not have any problem with him being committed to partnership with his wife. She sounds as if she's been very straightforward about her position. Meanwhile, he's dodging and weaving and being mysterious about his intentions. He's probably getting off on the forbidden thrill of the idea that he could cheat if he wanted while congratulating himself for his good-guy control for not "technically" doing anything "forbidden."
The good news is that if he keeps going on like this, there's a very good chance that she'll get weary of the wishy-washy game-playing sooner rather than later and decide that he's too juvenile to handle an extramarital relationship. Then, he's going to mourn the loss of his ego-stroker and quite possibly blame you.
That's what my crystal ball says. (My crystal ball reflects being on all three of these sides: hers, his, yours, though not in marriages.)
posted by desuetude at 9:34 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
+1 that if they are talking about a date, then he is at the edge of the cliff. I might've been able to construct a scenario that gave him the benefit of the doubt ("maybe he knows what he is doing") were that detail not present. But that is a clear indication that either he doesn't know how dangerous his actions are and is about to make a very stupid mistake, or else he knows exactly how dangerous his actions are. Best of luck with this awful situation.
posted by salvia at 10:58 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by salvia at 10:58 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
As my grandpappy used to say, "that horse is outta the barn close the door if it makes ya feel better.'
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:16 PM on August 27, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:16 PM on August 27, 2013 [6 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I have not spoken to husband about this and do not want to at this point bc I discovered all of this after snooping on his phone.
You should raise it with him. Be honest, say you saw all the messages and are concerned / need to talk.
posted by knapah at 1:10 PM on August 26, 2013 [14 favorites]