Adulterous friend, wife suspects, I know ... What to do?

January 8, 2007 10:42 PM

A friend I've had for many years cheated on his wife while visiting my house 1000 miles from his home. She has always been very kind to me and I regard her as a dear friend. They have a less than one year old baby. She called me and wants to know what these odd cell phone calls on his phone were during his visit. What should I do?

He comes from a sick family with one brother who drank himself to death, one who's in and out of rehab, and another who's wife and baby just left him after one too many nights of cocaine use. My friend drinks, but not often. He's never hit anyone to the best of my knowledge.

We were out at a bar, we met and talked with some girls, and then he and I went home to pass out. At 3AM he had a booty call from someone we met that night, we argued about his leaving, I tackled him, threw his rental car keys in the alley behind the house, and went to pass out. I was drunk at the time as well. He found the keys, made it to her place, and had sex with her. The next day we didn't talk much. He made some comments about not being able to wash the dirt off and I bitched about him putting this huge thing in the middle of our relationship. I realized he had brought condoms with him to my house, so it was clearly on his mind. He did mention a bit later that the girl had been calling him after he returned home.

If she's closely checking the cell phone records I assume she suspects something. I don't know much about their home life these days as I haven't been to visit in a year or more.

I figure I can tell her the truth, lie, or not talk to her/them ever again.

I don't want to bring the news that he cheated on her because they've got a new baby and there's always a chance they could work it out. I don't want to lie to her because she's never done anything but be nice to me. I believe its something he'll do again, if he doesn't do it on a regular basis. I've not asked him about that though.

I'm leaning towards not talking to them until he gets caught some other way as it seems like hes done something to break three relationships rather than one. If he cheated, told me about it, and it wasn't while staying at my house I'd still be mad at him for the same reason. If she already knew about it I'd try and be a friend to both of them. I don't know how I can do that without blurting it out whenever I see her or talk to her.

Any suggestions on what to do?

posted by anonymous to human relations (75 comments total)

There's so much that you posted here. None of it matters.

I'm going to refer you to advice from William S. Burroughs, who said, "Never get involved in a boy-girl fight."

That advice is so good that I'm going to repeat it here.

Never get involved in a boy-girl fight.

That is what you should do.
posted by ikkyu2 at 10:47 PM on January 8, 2007 [3 favorites has favorites]

Never get involved in a boy-girl fight, but what you have here is a boy-boy fight. You're mad at him, and for good reason. You don't need to deal with the wife, you need to deal with him. You need to call his crap. He did this on your turf, shat on your carpet. He knew he was involving you. You need to involve him.

Your problem is: how much is his friendship worth. Is it worth your own self-respect? This is the question, and the answer to that will solve all the other issues.
posted by johngumbo at 10:54 PM on January 8, 2007

I think you have made it pretty clear already to your friend what you think of him. I think all you need to say to your other friend is that you didn't use his mobile phone and she'd better ask her husband what the calls were. If she persists, you might say, I'm not prepared to discuss this. You need to take it up with him.

You see, I don't think you're responsible for how she feels about him, or for his behaviour or for whether she finds out or not.
posted by b33j at 11:00 PM on January 8, 2007 [3 favorites has favorites]

The most positive (and by that I mean, still probably extremely negative) way to deal with this, is to have a good, serious talk with him, and try to convince him that for the sake of his marriage, and for the sake of his child, he has to come clean with his wife. Quickly.

There's no use her finding out on her own; then everything will be fucked. She will be pissed at you and him.

There's no use you telling her. She will be pissed at him, and he will be pissed at you.

The only way is to talk sense into him, get him to deal with his shit and to come clean with her. It might end their marriage. That would suck, but not telling her probably isn't going to save his marriage at this point.
posted by Jimbob at 11:02 PM on January 8, 2007

This is not your concern.

Your response to his wife's questions should be "I think you should ask him about it".

That's it.

No good can come from you injecting yourself into this situation.

Also, you don't "know" anything. You know your friend says he had sex with a stranger. You do not know this to be the case. He very well could have gone over there and passed out (as drunk as you two sound) or even not made it over there to begin with.

What, you think he is capable of adultery and not garden variety lying/bragging?

You don't know shit, you don't have a dog in this hunt, and it is not your concern.

Don't try to be Family Superhero and save the day.
posted by Ynoxas at 11:02 PM on January 8, 2007 [2 favorites has favorites]

wife: What are all these calls on my husbands cell phone?

anonymous: I think thats something you should ask him.
posted by phyle at 11:02 PM on January 8, 2007

Or exactly what Ynoxas said..
posted by phyle at 11:04 PM on January 8, 2007

You see, I don't think you're responsible for how she feels about him, or for his behaviour or for whether she finds out or not.

This is not your concern.

Sure, anonymous isn't responsible, but he's involved...with people he cares about. I don't think anonymous would be a friend to either if he just throws up his hands and says "sorry folks, I don't give a shit about your problems".

Stalling the wife, telling her to ask his friend, is fair enough while he tries to convince his friend to be honest with her, though. But I don't know what definition of "dear friend" people are thinking of when their solution is to avoid dealing with the situation the minute things start looking difficult.
posted by Jimbob at 11:09 PM on January 8, 2007

There's a way to say, "I think you should ask him" that will tell her everything she needs to know, and convey how bad you feel about all this. That's what you want to do -- repeat those words in answer to any questions, with all kindness in your tone of voice. Even though she is asking, she does not want to hear in detail just how much of a scum-bucket her husband is from you; that you know he is a scum-bucket is humiliation enough.
posted by Methylviolet at 11:29 PM on January 8, 2007

This is not your concern.

Your response to his wife's questions should be "I think you should ask him about it".

This is exactly what I was going to say.

As for the guy himself, you've told him what you think. Stick to it. If he's going to sabotage his marriage, that's his problem, there's not point in allowing him to bring you into it.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 11:37 PM on January 8, 2007

You may be friends with her, and friends with him, but enforcing their marital vows is none of your damned business. For you to get involved, in any way, would be just as reprehensible as his cheating on his wife.
posted by jayder at 11:40 PM on January 8, 2007

There's a way to say, "I think you should ask him" that will tell her everything she needs to know, and convey how bad you feel about all this. That's what you want to do -- repeat those words in answer to any questions, with all kindness in your tone of voice. Even though she is asking, she does not want to hear in detail just how much of a scum-bucket her husband is from you; that you know he is a scum-bucket is humiliation enough.

That's a terrible suggestion. I can't imagine a more pathetic and slimy way to deal with this situation than to strive to convey it between the lines like that. That's the problem with people who advocate interloping in somebody else's marital bedroom --- they positively savor their power to gallop in on a moral high horse and inflict pain and destruction on somebody else's relationship.
posted by jayder at 11:48 PM on January 8, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

all these people that suggest you should defer responsibility are shameful. It reflects a suburban don't-want-to-deal-with-it standard that you have to discover that you want to align yourself with. If you want to be part of that crowd, follow that advice, otherwise rat him out.

You know deep down inside what you should do. Follow that advice. otherwise you'll be full of regret.
posted by bash at 11:59 PM on January 8, 2007

Having been in this situation long ago (with a fiance, not a husband, though) - I wish that the person I asked about the phone calls would have told me the truth, because asking a cheater about them always ends up in more lies. I didn't need gory details, just a straight answer, and I was really pissed at our mutual friend, because I felt that he was trying to cover for my fiance. Would it have been better to get the truth from the guilty party? Of course - but that's pretty rare, I think.
posted by Liosliath at 11:59 PM on January 8, 2007

For what it's worth, if I was the wife I would want to know.

I know this isn't a popular opinion but for me personally cheating is a deal breaker, I don't care what the excuse or circumstance is.
posted by bluehermit at 12:17 AM on January 9, 2007

I figure I can tell her the truth, lie, or not talk to her/them ever again.

No. You can
a) tell the truth and never talk to him (and maybe her) again,
b) lie.

It's weird that she's asking you about her husband's cell phone calls. It would be weird whether he was cheating on her or not. There's no need for you to say anything; the can of worms is open, and things will take their natural course without your interference. Stay out of it, and you may preserve your relationships with one or both of them. Get involved, and find yourself in the middle of a mess in which you could easily become a scapegoat. Let his wife call the cell phone numbers if she wants. Maybe that's what he wants her to do anyway.
posted by bingo at 12:44 AM on January 9, 2007

Stop answering their calls. He screwed you and she won't love you for the truth.
posted by IronLizard at 12:52 AM on January 9, 2007

I think she probably knows the answer to her question. BOTH of your friends have done you a big disservice.
posted by toucano at 12:53 AM on January 9, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

I know I'm going to get flamed for saying this, but, how does anon precisely know where the phone calls came from? Unless anon knows the exact number the "booty call" came from and what number the wife is asking about then it's just an assumption on his part.

The answer to that question is 'I don't recognize the number.' - the truth.

The real question is should anon come out and tell the wife her husband cheated or not.

It seems he wants to know whether or not he should come out and say husband cheated.

Personally, if she were a good friend of mine I'd mention something. If she were an acquaintance i wouldn't lie but I also wouldn't volunteer the information out of the blue...but that's just me.
posted by ASM at 1:02 AM on January 9, 2007

I would issue him the ultimatum: "Your wife knows and is asking me about your cell phone activity. Do you want to keep me as your friend and fess up to her or pass me off to her to be her friend and in that case, I'll tell her."

That makes it his call, with plenty of room to do the right thing, and if not, you can really be her friend. People don't always hat eht ebearer of bad news, especially if you can make a good show to her of your empathy for her in this awful mess. You seem to have that. Don't lose it for anything.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 1:03 AM on January 9, 2007 [2 favorites has favorites]

I think it's fair to say to the male friend that he needs to deal with the situation so that the inquiring calls from her stop. You don't have to say something not-so-cryptic like, "I think you should ask him about that" to her-- that's tantamount to telling the whole story. Just send him a private e-mail and tell him to make the calls from her stop and leave it at that.

Oh, and don't invite him back.
posted by LGCNo6 at 1:05 AM on January 9, 2007

Wow, I can't no one's thinking of her. Yes, they've both put you in the middle of something that should be between them, and yes that's out of line. But, big picture--

He had druken sex with a stranger. He may have brought condoms to your house, but that doesn't mean he used them with her, that he was sober enough to use a condom correctly, or that a condom protects him from all STDs anyhow.

His wife has been put at risk. I have no idea if any of that shit is transmissable to the baby (breast milk?) but how would you feel if something happened to her or the baby after you kept silent?

Give him an ultimatum: either he mans up and tells her himself, today, or you'll be forced to (if it comes to that, keep it to the minimum facts she needs to know: he claims to have slept with someone else, you believe him, the conditions were not conducive to safe sex -- the rest she needs to take up with him, not you).

Then take an extended break from both of them. They're going out of their way to drag you into their marital drama.
posted by nakedcodemonkey at 1:36 AM on January 9, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

If I asked a friend about my husband's behaviour, and my friend said "you should ask him about that" i would understand that my friend could not/would not discuss this unpleasantness. If my husband had been honourable, there would be nothing for the friend to not discuss. By refusing to discuss it, you are speaking volumes.

However, as noted above, you do not know the phone calls were from the floozy (for a fact). They may have been from the hitmen your male friend has arranged to take out the wife. You do not know that your male friend did not have brewer's droop. You could truthfully say that he left your house drunk and you don't know where he went or what he did, if you wanted to, but seriously, this will not wendell. Best not to be involved whichever way it goes.

Perhaps if they split and your female friend rings looking for a shoulder to cry on, maybe then you can offer her support, but even then, you should listen and not discuss the failings of her spouse. This is not for you to do.
posted by b33j at 1:51 AM on January 9, 2007

I agree with methylviolet and b33j. Direct the wife to confront her husband, with all the concern you feel for her and her child, not knowing anything more than you actually do. She'll get the message, without you having to drag her through a third hand recitation of a third rate hookup.

And you might apologize for getting blind, knee crawling, preacher cussing drunk with your former buddy, too, as he might have excercised better judgement were he sober in your sober presence...
posted by paulsc at 2:31 AM on January 9, 2007

Stop enabling your friend. You are doing no one any favors (except yourself by).

Tell his wife exactly what happened - you both went out and got drunk. You came home drunk and he got a phone call from someone he identified as a woman. He drove off drunk and didn 't return until XX time.

You have no idea what happened while he was gone & you were passed out drunk.

She will probably blame you but she already knows she isn't married to Prince Charming. She'd be better off leaving his dead ass & raising her child without Drunk Dad in the house. She probably won't because it will all be your fault but maybe she'll be strong enough to see him for what he really is. And losing his family may be enough of a wake up call for him to avoid the fate of the rest of his family.

My dad was a 3rd generation alcoholic but he was a great guy - he had a lot of friends. They all said so at his funeral. Growing up as one of his children was hell and I wouldn't wish the same on any other kid.
posted by jaimystery at 3:42 AM on January 9, 2007

she knows he's cheating, she just wants to know whose side are you on
posted by matteo at 3:57 AM on January 9, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

For what it's worth, if I was the wife I would want to know.

For what it's worth, there's no way the girl doesn't know already.

I mean, think about it: who in the hell goes over their husband's cell phone records with a fine-toothed comb except one that already has reason to suspect their husband is cheating, and is merely looking for confirmation.

She already knows. She fishing for concrete evidence, and, I suppose, trying to find out if you're going to lie for him or not. Personally, the safest thing to say would be, "I don't recognize those phone numbers. Whomever they are, they aren't me or any of my family or acquaintances. Maybe you should ask him."
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:50 AM on January 9, 2007

Matteo and C_D are right.

She already knows - she's just looking for evidence and allies.
posted by She Kisses Wyverns at 5:29 AM on January 9, 2007

Not your problem. Why on earth would you know who was calling him? Tell her as much, and let them work it out. Don't pick sides.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 6:11 AM on January 9, 2007

She does not know. That's why she's asking. I suspect all the folks who are saying she knows have not been in her position before. She may intuit that something is going on, but is unwilling to make definitive changes with her and her year old child on intuition alone.

If you were her, wouldn't you want to know? Either tell her or say you both went drinking and then he was out all night, as suggested above, but don't lie.
posted by Go, now. Go! at 6:20 AM on January 9, 2007

There's a way to say, "I think you should ask him" that will tell her everything she needs to know, and convey how bad you feel about all this. That's what you want to do -- repeat those words in answer to any questions, with all kindness in your tone of voice.

Exactly.

Don't pick sides.

Don't pick sides between a woman with a young baby and a sleazeball who's cheating on her and very possibly putting her (and the baby, if the baby's nursing) at serious health risk? Great advice.

For you to get involved, in any way, would be just as reprehensible as his cheating on his wife.

This is the stupidest thing I've seen on MetaFilter today.
posted by languagehat at 6:32 AM on January 9, 2007

Don't do anything. These things need to take their course. It's not your place to break up somebody else's marriage and these things are always more complicated than they look to outsiders. Your responsibility in these situations is not to interfere, not to meddle, and let the relationship take its course. However things works out in the end you'll probably be there for both your friends. Just hope for the best. (This is assuming there's no element of violence involved. If you have reason to suspect Prince Charming might hurt his wife or the baby then intervention is required.)

What you should do though is beat the shit out of your "friend." Whether he's going through a tough time or not, his behavior was disgusting. He's a selfish, hurtful, sneaky, untrustful guy and you certainly don't need that in your life. Stop talking to him and tell him to call you back when he's all grown up. On the off chance that your rejection causes him to confess don't welcome him back with open arms. He'll need to start from scratch re-earning your trust.
posted by nixerman at 6:33 AM on January 9, 2007

I assume she's asking about the calls because he said you must have made them when taken to task on them. IMO, you should do as suggested above and simply say you never used his cellphone.

In addition, your friend sounds like a fucking asshole (cheats on his wife intenionally, drives drunk, etc.) and you'd probably better off without him.
posted by dobbs at 6:40 AM on January 9, 2007

Just to refute languagehat's point and emphasize the real point here: you don't have enough information to make an informed decision. There is a certain type of person who enjoys leaping to conclusions and reducing every situation to a simple black-and-white scenario. Possessed with his genius, he charges into the situation and rains down fire and death. The end result is that he hurts everybody and there's a general feeling of resentment about the situation. Don't be this person.

The situation is likely a lot more complicated than you can ever imagine. Don't assume the wife is some saintly innocent victim here and don't assume your friend is some sociopathic serial adulterer who will never confess his sins because he doesn't really love his wife. You don't know the truth and neither do they, but if the truth is going to come out it needs to be discovered by those involved. Again, these things are always more complicated than they look which is why you really shouldn't get involved.
posted by nixerman at 6:42 AM on January 9, 2007

I would tell his wife what went on (the facts, not assumptions). But first, I would call and let him know that I was going to.

This gives him the chance to do it himself.
posted by mjao at 6:50 AM on January 9, 2007

For pete's sake, tell your friend to get himself tested for STDs. There can't be many worse ways to find out your husband's been cheating on you than waking up with herpes or HPV (which has the added bonus of being put at risk for cervical cancer) or something one day. Even when used properly (soberly?) condoms aren't 100% effective.

If I were the wife, I'd want to know what you know. No conclusions -- just what happened. Others have suggested saying "He got a phone call, said it was from XXX, we argued, he went out, hecame back at [time]." I agree that's what I'd say, and that's what I'd want to know if I was the wife.

If you tell her only what you know, she can draw her own conclusions but at the same time arm herself with some evidence in case her husband decides to lie to her about the whole thing, which is likely. IMO, she deserves to be able to make an informed decision about what to do: it has ramifications for her health, her marriage, and their child. (As an aside, I remember reading studies that say children whose parents divorce when they're very young often do better than children whose parents divorce when the children are old enough to be cognizant of all the discord -- so if their marriage ends it might not be the worst possible outcome.)

In light of that, withholding that information seems kind of cold to me, but I don't think most people would blame you either. It's a tough situation.
posted by AV at 6:56 AM on January 9, 2007

wife: What are all these calls on my husbands cell phone?

anonymous: I think thats something you should ask him.

Instead of that:
wife: What are all these calls on my husbands cell phone?

anonymous: What did he say when you asked him about it?
posted by Robert Angelo at 7:24 AM on January 9, 2007 [2 favorites has favorites]

Neither of these people are your friends anymore.
posted by I Foody at 7:26 AM on January 9, 2007

Neither of these people are your friends anymore.

The husband because he's a shit, and the wife because... she had the bad luck to marry a shit?
posted by languagehat at 7:29 AM on January 9, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

I agree with the "do nothing" advice. Don't get involved.

And it's just sex, anyway. He's not leaving his wife or anything.
posted by wfc123 at 7:30 AM on January 9, 2007

Instead of that:
wife: What are all these calls on my husbands cell phone?

anonymous: What did he say when you asked him about it?

This strikes me as "I am implicitly taking sides with your husband and don't want to contradict whatever bullshit line he already fed you"

There have been a lot of great answers upthread, both the the ones that advise anon to "stay out of it and let it work itself out" and the ones that say "tell the wife." Which one anon should choose depends on the subtleties of anon's relationship with both his friend and the wife, and about which the question cannot possibly communicate enough to let MeFites make the final decision. If you ultimately want to stay loyal to your friend, let the situation play itself out. If you want to side with the injured party, fess up.
posted by misterbrandt at 7:50 AM on January 9, 2007

This is the stupidest thing I've seen on MetaFilter today.

Just woke up, huh?

I guess there's several moral imperatives that you need to weigh here and decide which is most important to you. All the choices stink.

If you think his reckless whoring is so detestable that concealing it in any way is morally wrong then you should answer her questions honestly. I think the only right thing to do if you choose that route is not to get into an extended discussion about it but to say you argued over his leaving the house (drunk) for parts unknown in the middle of the night and you presume the calls are related to that. Period - anything beyond that she should discuss with her husband.

If you think the bonds of friendship are such that you can't violate his trust, however repugnantly he has abused it, then you should tell her that it's not your cellphone and you don't use it; clearly she's looking for some kind of information more than "whose number is this?", clearly there's something more going on between them, and you think that's the kind of thing that a husband and wife need to work out for themselves.

Personally I subscribe to the position mentioned first-up in the thread: a relationship between two people should be managed between two people. I don't get involved in disputes between friends and I don't get involved in disputes between partners. That doesn't mean I don't make my own judgments about people's actions - your friends' choices are so loathsome that I'd seriously consider if he would continue to be my friend, were I in your shoes. However that's between me and him, not me and his wife.
posted by phearlez at 7:59 AM on January 9, 2007

I'm actually quite surprised at the variety of responses. Many of the ones contrary to my opinion are still quite good, but some of them are offensive, to pretty much every party in the story.

We need to revisit the facts for a moment:

1. You were both drunk. I say that for a reason.

2. Your friend got a phone call, left, and then came back. That's all you know. Really, it is. The rest is guessing and the boastings of a drunkard, which may or may not be true. Like someone said above, maybe instead of a woman it was a hitman. Maybe it was his bookie, or drug dealer. Maybe it was a gay lover. Maybe it was his secret CIA informant contact. All you really know is he got a call, he left, and he returned.

3. The wife asked for some reason other than idle curiosity. She is hardly clueless or completely oblivious to some sort of situation in her marriage.

This is why I say this is none of your concern. And that's why the people above who keep preaching "TELL HER" need, in my opinion, to quiet their emotional response for a moment and try to contain their "damsel in distress" reflex. Look at the actual situation, not the elaborate scenario they have crafted in their head.

I repeat: You don't know shit, you don't have a dog in this hunt, and it is none of your concern.
posted by Ynoxas at 8:08 AM on January 9, 2007

Stay out of it. Tell the wife to ask him, and give both of these people space.

There is absolutely no reason for you to put yourself in the middle of this. What if you do talk to her about it, and tell her what you think you know? What purpose will that serve? She is already clearly suspicious, and ultimately she will have to talk to him about it.

She has everything she needs to make her decision without your speculation about what he did while you were passed out drunk. You have, from what was said above, no concrete evidence of anything. Do not get involved in this.
posted by dead_ at 8:26 AM on January 9, 2007

I guess a "bros-before-hos" response will frowned upon here. If this guy is a really good friend of yours, you'll help him "hide the bodies" while he cleans up his act, if this is indeed a one-time indiscretion. All bets are off, of course, if this is an ongoing pattern.

That said, Ynoxas has a great point. There isn't a smoking gun here when you lay out all of the facts objectively.
posted by dr_dank at 8:28 AM on January 9, 2007

The husband because he's a shit, and the wife because... she had the bad luck to marry a shit?

the poster --not to mention a nice chunk of AskMe -- may not share your bedrock Puritanical ideas, so, please, let the thread move forward?
posted by matteo at 8:38 AM on January 9, 2007

Instead of that:
wife: What are all these calls on my husbands cell phone?

anonymous: What did he say when you asked him about it?

This strikes me as "I am implicitly taking sides with your husband and don't want to contradict whatever bullshit line he already fed you"

I didn't mean it that way. I had assumed she was looking at his cell, saw these strange calls, and asked anon about it without asking her husband first -- perhaps she's embarrased about looking at his cell calls...

Anyhow, I was in typing hurry [phone ringing!] and should have explained that this approach was intended to start a dialogue and encourage the wife to have more open communication with her husband directly. Sort of like when your therapist answers a question with a question. In this case, I think a true friend takes no sides, reveals no secrets, but encourages both spouses to honestly communicate with each other.
posted by Robert Angelo at 8:48 AM on January 9, 2007

I think she already knows and it's a lot easier to start asking you questions than it is her husband (if she hasn't already asked). You don't have to go over a bill with a fine tooth comb to notice a number of calls (particularly one at 3am) from an unfamiliar number and start getting concerned.

Personally, I think you should tell your friend that she called, give him a set amount of time to come clean, and if he doesn't, you will. It's clear you don't have a lot of respect left for your friend, so it looks to me like that friendship is dead anyway. The wife may get upset with you for telling the truth (and may blame you for enabling, etc) but she might get pissed if you didn't tell the truth either (by lying or saying to ask the husband, which answers the question).

Either way you face possible ire from her. If you know that regardless you'll probably lose a friend, you might as well do what you think is right. If you can't talk to her without wanting to tell her, that might be your answer.

As for my own experiences, most of the time I already knew. I just wanted confirmation that I wasn't paranoid, which is what I think is happening here and is thus the basis of my response.
posted by ml98tu at 8:52 AM on January 9, 2007

jayder writes "For you to get involved, in any way, would be just as reprehensible as his cheating on his wife."

He's involved already, the friend has implicitly asked him to cover for him.

"I would issue him the ultimatum: 'Your wife knows and is asking me about your cell phone activity. Do you want to keep me as your friend and fess up to her or pass me off to her to be her friend and in that case, I'll tell her."

This would be my approach, the "friend" wants you to act unethically IMO by requesting you lie thru ommision.
posted by Mitheral at 9:13 AM on January 9, 2007

Unless you have pictures or were there, you don't know for a fact that he had sex w/the booty call. You were both drunk and had an argument before he left the house; for all you know, it could be stupid pride that won't let him admit that (a) he couldn't get it up; (b) he got lost trying to find the place and spent the night in a parking lot; (c) he had a change of heart and doesn't want to tell you; (d) etc., etc. The woman could be calling him because (a) she's pissed that she got stood up; (b) has decided she's in love because he doesn't live there; (c) is psycho; (d) etc., etc.

Don't tell the wife anything except that you haven't looked at his cell phone numbers and one night you guys were pretty drunk (if she tells you the date and you want to get dragged into this).
posted by sfkiddo at 9:15 AM on January 9, 2007

I would tell his wife what went on (the facts, not assumptions). But first, I would call and let him know that I was going to.

This gives him the chance to do it himself.

Totally agree. Cheating at this point is less about "damsel in distress" and more about health issues. If indeed my partner did sleep with another woman, I would want to know for many reasons, but health is really the primary of those.

Taken to an extreme, "never get in the middle of a boy-girl fight" is often what leads to people hearing or seeing the domestic violence, but not reporting the domestic violence. Did I just say that cheating and domestic violence are the same thing--no, no, no. I am saying these two very laissez faire approaches (don't tell her the facts you know; don't tell the police the facts you know) are, at root, the same thing.
posted by oflinkey at 9:16 AM on January 9, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

wfc123: And it's just sex, anyway. He's not leaving his wife or anything.

I'm going to have to disagree with languagehat, THAT'S the stupidest thing I've read on MetaFilter today.

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, amirite??? What the bitch doesn't know won't hurt her? Guess marriage no longer means what I thought it meant.

anonymous - Your buddy's gotta work this one out on his own. You obviously care for his wife, so taking sides is going to cause more problems than it solves. Don't lie to her if she asks (she obviously already suspects / knows something is going on), but don't put yourself in the middle of it.
posted by chundo at 10:09 AM on January 9, 2007

Guess marriage no longer means what I thought it meant.


I guess it doesn't.

Everyone "cheats". The problem is you look at it as something sinister. That's your prerogative.

Again- it's just sex.
posted by wfc123 at 10:20 AM on January 9, 2007

This guy is not your friend anymore. He basically spit in your face when you tried to help him keep his marriage intact, and now he is dragging you into concealing his own indiscretions.

You owe him nothing. I'd at least try to salvage the friendship with his wife by telling her. If you don't, she will hold you accountable when she finds out, and you will have lost two friends instead of one.
posted by Operation Afterglow at 10:33 AM on January 9, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

Not everyone cheats. That is so offensive. Marriage actually means something to some of us.
posted by agregoli at 10:46 AM on January 9, 2007

Not everyone cheats. It's not just sex.
posted by onlyconnect at 10:50 AM on January 9, 2007

chundo: Not trying to be argumentative, but surely you understand not every situation or culture is the same.

For all we, or the poster, know, they could have an "open marriage" or are poly-amorous or are beards for each other or... well... a hundred other things.

matteo was a little rude up-thread, but his point is worth hearing. Not everyone has the same puritanical, or perhaps more delicately said, western christian approach to marriage. And for the poster to ASSUME they do, and risk being the focusing beam for introducing hostility into the relationship... it's just not wise.

This thread however is very enlightening, and it is interesting to see the variety of responses.

People get incredibly touchy over sex in, and out of, relationships.

I remember several years ago, a pet hobby of mine was asking married people "What would your spouse have to do that would force you to get a divorce with no exception or no conceivable possibility for reconciliation".

Although "infidelity" was the most often offered by far, if pressed into extreme circumstances (what if they were drunk? what if it was the only time ever in their life, just 1 time, forever) or somewhat vague offenses (what about a blowjob instead of full on sex? what about a handjob?) then almost everyone would back off the "immediate divorce, no chance" rhetoric.

Interestingly, physical abuse was rarely ever mentioned as a sure-fire divorce maker. And if I brought it up, people were much quicker to rationalize it (stressed, sick, work, depressed, accident, drinking) without even being asked to. This is simply crazy to me.

The only one that seemed to stick as a "divorce no matter what" was child molestation.

But infidelity was definitely #2, and it amazed me to no end that people would be willing to try to save a marriage due to drug addiction, felonies, physical abuse, and all manner of terrible, relationship-torturing things. But, alter the "tab A into slot B" arrangement, people go loco.

My personal feeling has changed significantly as I've aged. At 20, I would have told you that if a spouse cheated, I would kill both her and her paramour. At 36, I don't think a single indiscretion is enough to destroy a decade-long marriage. If your spouse finds someone they'd rather be with, then by all means, let them go and find happiness. Remove the "cheating" completely. But, I don't think you throw away everything because of a little touchy-feely in the file room.

(I realize I am telling a story, so therefore, any information contained is purely anecdotal.)

On preview: agregoli, I assume he is using a rather broad definition of "cheat", hence the quotation marks. It can be argued that there are ways to "cheat" that don't involve intercourse, such as just forming emotional bonds to people who are not your spouse. I think that notion is preposterous, but some people do hold it.
posted by Ynoxas at 10:53 AM on January 9, 2007

She asked you about the calls because she was hoping you'd say, "sure, I used his phone," or some other reassuring thing. Tell her you don't know, and maybe, "ask him." That's it. Later on, if she's angry, say truthfully that you wanted to stay out of it. She already knows something is up. And if either of them tries to confide in you or talk about problems in the marriage, be clear about wanting no involvement. Stay neutral as long as you can. It's the most constructive thing you can do for yourself and for them.
posted by wryly at 10:59 AM on January 9, 2007

I guess a "bros-before-hos" response will frowned upon here.

Yup. Because it's childish and repellent.

That said, Ynoxas has a great point. There isn't a smoking gun here when you lay out all of the facts objectively squint really hard and hold the facts as far away as you can and pretend any patterns are all in your mind.

There, fixed that for you.

bedrock Puritanical ideas

Puritanism would be saying sex outside marriage is inherently bad. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying sex, especially drunken carefree sex, these days carries the automatic risk of deadly diseases you can pass on to your unwitting wife and possibly your infant child. That's inherently bad. If you disagre, well, feel free to celebrate your bad, bad self. Bros before hos!
posted by languagehat at 11:12 AM on January 9, 2007

Ynoxas writes "For all we, or the poster, know, they could have an 'open marriage' or are poly-amorous or are beards for each other or... well... a hundred other things."

The wife checking up on the husband would tend to indicate that isn't the case.
posted by Mitheral at 11:18 AM on January 9, 2007

I wonder what the responses here would look like if the poster had left out the genders of the people involved.

Agree with both Jimbob and jaimystery--if the poster really considers her a friend, he should tell her what he knows, but give the guy a chance to come clean on his own first.
posted by equalpants at 11:19 AM on January 9, 2007

Ynoxas writes "But infidelity was definitely #2, and it amazed me to no end that people would be willing to try to save a marriage due to drug addiction, felonies, physical abuse, and all manner of terrible, relationship-torturing things. But, alter the 'tab A into slot B' arrangement, people go loco."

Infidelity almost always goes hand in hand with a loss of trust. It's the loss of trust that kills marriages.
posted by Mitheral at 11:26 AM on January 9, 2007

I'd tell the wife that you don't know the number and that you haven't used the phone. I'd strongly suggest that she talk to her husband about the phone calls.

I'd then tell the husband that his wife has been questioning you about his phone calls. I'd give him 48 hours to talk to his wife. If he doesn't talk to her in that time frame I would tell her the barest of details (as mentioned above - friend took off and was gone for several hours) of what happened.

I am a wife - I would want to know for various reasons, not the least of which would be the possibility I've contracted a VD.
posted by deborah at 12:57 PM on January 9, 2007

I think that sucks for you. :(

Perhaps:

a) Don't tell the wife
b) Do tell your friend: "Look, I can't be friends with someone who thinks that sort of behavior is acceptable in a husband and father. You can try to be a better person, or we can stop being friends. Your choice."
posted by thehmsbeagle at 1:10 PM on January 9, 2007

Eee. Having now read all the posts, I wish I could go back and not comment, and instead just go somewhere and be sad at how many people are somehow managing to malign marriage, the wife's character, and the anon's kind of laudable feelings of distress over this all in the same breath.

OH THE INTERNET.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 1:19 PM on January 9, 2007

dr_dank: "I guess a "bros-before-hos" response will frowned upon here. If this guy is a really good friend of yours, you'll help him "hide the bodies" while he cleans up his act, if this is indeed a one-time indiscretion. All bets are off, of course, if this is an ongoing pattern.

That said, Ynoxas has a great point. There isn't a smoking gun here when you lay out all of the facts objectively."

I don't even see that as a 'bro's-before-ho's' response. Tell her what you believe happened, and you run the risk of ending their marriage over what may ultimately have been one night of stupidity that may otherwise have blown over. As a result, their kid gets to grow up without both parents under the same roof. And the kid gets no say in the matter at all.

If the wife wants to make a big deal of it with her husband, she's got all the ammunition that she wants. It sounds to me like she's calling you because she wants to know what you think she should *do* in this situation. In my view, you'd be more of a friend to her by just listening and empathizing than by getting involved.

The only right answer to her question is: "I've got no idea. What does he say?"
posted by PeterMcDermott at 1:36 PM on January 9, 2007

Q: What are the phone calls on my husband's phone?

A: Umm, I dunno, ask him.
posted by theora55 at 2:55 PM on January 9, 2007

I think PeterM is right. Look at it this way:

1. If you tell her, then she'll know what happened.

2. If you lie to her, she'll suspect you're lying but she won't know for sure.

3. If you give an evasive answer (that is, you don't tell her and you don't lie to her), she'l know what happened but you have, technically at least, not spilled the beans.

If you choose 3, some will say you're being a coward. But others would say that it's the gentlemanly way out. It's what I would do.

2, I think, is a very bad move. It doesn't solve your problems. It doesn't make the wife's inqueries go away. They'll still be there, possibly with more frustration now fueling them. Nor does it reconcile you with your male friend. Plus, it has the potential to turn you into a target for the wife's ire. And lord knows what else. Unless you are a really spectacular liar and the woman in question is particularly succeptible to your wiles, it's hard to imagine 3 turning out well for anyone. I suppose it could have some very meager short term benefits for the cheating husband, but then again, it might not. If I were in your position, I'd want to be very certain that my lie was actually going to help my buddy before I told it. And I don't know how sure you can be in this case.

There are about fifteen reasons not to choose number 1, most of them already mentioned in this thread.
posted by Clay201 at 3:10 PM on January 9, 2007

Everyone "cheats". The problem is you look at it as something sinister. That's your prerogative.

Again- it's just sex.

For the record, no, they don't. And she sure wouldn't be calling if she felt that way. Tell her what you KNOW as a fact and let the rest work itself out. If she's your friend too, she deserves the truth, as you know it.
posted by CwgrlUp at 3:44 PM on January 9, 2007

Wow, both are being irresponsible. The friend more so than the wife, but neither should have placed you in this position. Her behavior indicates that she knows and is unfairly trying to put the onus on you. That's cowardly given your relationship with the friend. I have seen such behavior before in a relationship and such maneuvers are done so that your word is what is used as evidence.

Your friend's behavior is even more abhorrent (cheating on his wife in addition to forcing you into the relationship). Part of me believes they are both using you. I would tell his wife what happened, that you know for a fact. I would tell your friend that his behavior is unacceptable and do not want to partake in any activities with him that involve him acting like an archetypal asshole. Do not enable your friend and gloss over your behavior.

There are all kinds of what-ifs going on, that are quite valid. This could be a one-off, drunken mistake he will regret forever. I think you know that this is no the case.

Personally, I found that it is much better to rid my life of those of the drama-seeking type. It includes cutting off some friends, but I realize that those who would make youthful mistakes, sometimes never mature past that stage.
posted by geoff. at 6:37 PM on January 9, 2007

If you tell the wife what U know, then you will get the blame if anything happens to their relationship. (Your buddy will blame U for telling).

If you don't tell the wife you will take the blame from her for not telling what you know ... either way your piggy in the middle ...

Here's what I would do: I would tell his wife nothing, and I would contact your friend or former friend and tell him that she has contacted you about this and that he should not have put you into the middle of this and that he needs to resolve this.

Unless, he passes the buck and blames you ... then he's not a friend anymore and his wife needs to know what a schmuck he is.
posted by zaphod at 6:57 PM on January 9, 2007

Here's what makes it tough for me:

She has always been very kind to me and I regard her as a dear friend.

If the wife wasn't a dear friend, I'd probably agree with Clay201 and the other "give an evasive answer" folks. But not being honest about exactly what happened to a dear friend who's always been very kind to you?

*shakes head*

I don't see it.

Call him, tell her she called you, and that he'd better deal with this because if she calls again you're going to tell her the truth. Then, if she calls again, tell the truth, but keep out the assumptions and stick to the few facts you know for sure (I don't know whose number that is, he got a call, I think it was from a woman we met that night but I didn't talk to her, we fought, I passed out, the next day he told me he'd gone to meet her). Then tell them to please deal with this without you from here on, and deal with the fallout like an adult who knows he's done the right thing.
posted by mediareport at 10:09 PM on January 9, 2007

Call him, tell her she called you

Call him, tell *him* she called you...
posted by mediareport at 10:11 PM on January 9, 2007

I think I'm more with ikkyu2/Ynoxas than with others - you don't have to give the wife any information.

Bad Suggestion:
Wife: What are all these calls on my husbands cell phone?
Anon: Maybe you should ask your husband.

Translation:
Wife: What are all these calls on my husbands cell phone?
Anon: I'm desperate to confirm your suspicions that your husband is cheating on you, but no! I don't want to get involved. Whatever you do, don't ask me what I'm hiding, because uh, I'm not hiding anything.

My suggestion would be:
Wife: What are all these calls on my husbands cell phone?
Anon: How the hell should I know?

Resist the temptation to be the knight in shining armor/moral center here. Not your fight. I wouldn't alert the cheating husband, either. You can choose whether you want to be friends with this man while completely distancing yourself from his relationship with his wife/family, right? Do that.
posted by littlelebowskiurbanachiever at 12:04 AM on January 10, 2007

As a former wife who's been cheated on, my response is wondering why the worried wife hasn't called the potentially problem number herself instead of asking the poster.

Even if the responding woman is psychotic or whatever, it's still between the married couple and not the host for a weekend off from the wife and kid, regardless of how much of an ass anyone was.

I LOVE the initial post about the Burroughs' quote, "Never get involved in a boy-girl fight." (ikkyu2 is a very smart fellow.)

Admittedly, I'm jaded from dealing with lots of divorced women, but if the wife is all that worried, calling her husband's best pal (the poster) isn't going to do much except maybe ask for a future shoulder to lean on.
posted by lilywing13 at 2:03 AM on January 10, 2007