What do you all want from me?
February 7, 2010 4:23 PM Subscribe
How can a teen deal with bothersome family elders while staying polite?
I am 19. I'm forced to live at home with my parents. My family has a strong tradition of duty, and respect to elders. My parents forced me to live here by threatening to take away my car. Though I paid for my car completely alone, it is in my parents' name. When I bought it, when I was 17, they said it couldn't be in my name and I trusted them.
My entire life, they've expected me to do things for myself. They provide necessities like food, which I am grateful for. I have always bought my own clothes and other extras. They've never helped me with anything relating to school. Not homework, not applying to college, zero. But I actually don't mind it, I'm self sufficient. But there are two problems.
Problem #1:
My mother makes competitive comments that embarrass me. I went to a very competitive, wealthy high school, and a lot of people had the edge on me with private tutoring and things like that. So I got into a good college but not a top one.
But my mother doesn't really know what schools are better than others, she just goes by how the names sound. For example she would guess University of Virginia and University of Wyoming would be pretty much equal. To her those are just two random far away states.
So, my mother will hear of one of my friends going to a school like UVA and make a competitive comment like, "Oh, he must not have gotten into YOUR school." Even if his is ranked 15 places higher. Or she will just straight up ask me "Which is ranked higher, your school or his school?"
It has taken me a long time to deal with feelings of inadequacy and stop thinking in these thought patterns myself. When my mother does it, it really bothers me. But she will get angry if I am rude or "tell her what to do." Is there a polite way to get her to stop? It makes me feel really ashamed and defeated. It also kind of makes me angry because I was the one who did the work to get where I am. If it was so important to her for me to beat all my friends why didn't she help me the way their parents helped them? I also think that her way of thinking is... I don't really know the word for it, but maybe somewhat crass.
Problem #2:
We have some older-generation relatives in my family who I don't like because of their extremely hateful beliefs, and how they treat everyone around them, including me. In their heyday they did things that would be reported to the police now, and probably still could be. They are still nasty people. But I feel I still owe them respect and politeness as my elders. I also do things that are my duty like chores they can't handle.
The problem is they still send me gifts on my birthday, token gifts of $5 or so. I know I will sound disgustingly ungrateful to say this, but I don't want to accept gifts from people I dislike. I don't want to have a relationship with them at all that contains friendliness, love, or affection. I want to do my duty to them and absolutely nothing else. When they give me these gifts, they use it as a way to obligate me to call them more or visit more. They leave me angry messages if I don't. They don't care how busy I am.
So I'd like to somehow stop them from sending me these gifts. The catch is that there's no way I could be rude to them. So I couldn't just return the gifts or be straight up about how I don't want them. How can I end this gift giving politely? The other catch is that I do strongly believe in family and duty, so I couldn't just run away and never talk to any of them again. Again I know that they are being generous by giving me anything, and I don't deserve it, I know this whole problem is ungrateful, but I can't take it anymore.
I am 19. I'm forced to live at home with my parents. My family has a strong tradition of duty, and respect to elders. My parents forced me to live here by threatening to take away my car. Though I paid for my car completely alone, it is in my parents' name. When I bought it, when I was 17, they said it couldn't be in my name and I trusted them.
My entire life, they've expected me to do things for myself. They provide necessities like food, which I am grateful for. I have always bought my own clothes and other extras. They've never helped me with anything relating to school. Not homework, not applying to college, zero. But I actually don't mind it, I'm self sufficient. But there are two problems.
Problem #1:
My mother makes competitive comments that embarrass me. I went to a very competitive, wealthy high school, and a lot of people had the edge on me with private tutoring and things like that. So I got into a good college but not a top one.
But my mother doesn't really know what schools are better than others, she just goes by how the names sound. For example she would guess University of Virginia and University of Wyoming would be pretty much equal. To her those are just two random far away states.
So, my mother will hear of one of my friends going to a school like UVA and make a competitive comment like, "Oh, he must not have gotten into YOUR school." Even if his is ranked 15 places higher. Or she will just straight up ask me "Which is ranked higher, your school or his school?"
It has taken me a long time to deal with feelings of inadequacy and stop thinking in these thought patterns myself. When my mother does it, it really bothers me. But she will get angry if I am rude or "tell her what to do." Is there a polite way to get her to stop? It makes me feel really ashamed and defeated. It also kind of makes me angry because I was the one who did the work to get where I am. If it was so important to her for me to beat all my friends why didn't she help me the way their parents helped them? I also think that her way of thinking is... I don't really know the word for it, but maybe somewhat crass.
Problem #2:
We have some older-generation relatives in my family who I don't like because of their extremely hateful beliefs, and how they treat everyone around them, including me. In their heyday they did things that would be reported to the police now, and probably still could be. They are still nasty people. But I feel I still owe them respect and politeness as my elders. I also do things that are my duty like chores they can't handle.
The problem is they still send me gifts on my birthday, token gifts of $5 or so. I know I will sound disgustingly ungrateful to say this, but I don't want to accept gifts from people I dislike. I don't want to have a relationship with them at all that contains friendliness, love, or affection. I want to do my duty to them and absolutely nothing else. When they give me these gifts, they use it as a way to obligate me to call them more or visit more. They leave me angry messages if I don't. They don't care how busy I am.
So I'd like to somehow stop them from sending me these gifts. The catch is that there's no way I could be rude to them. So I couldn't just return the gifts or be straight up about how I don't want them. How can I end this gift giving politely? The other catch is that I do strongly believe in family and duty, so I couldn't just run away and never talk to any of them again. Again I know that they are being generous by giving me anything, and I don't deserve it, I know this whole problem is ungrateful, but I can't take it anymore.
Is your dignity worth more than a few thousand dollars to you? Because that's what it would cost to replace the stuff you'd have to leave behind in order to be able to deal with your relatives on your own terms rather than via the extortion they've set up for you.
posted by decathecting at 4:31 PM on February 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by decathecting at 4:31 PM on February 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
For #2, could you politely explain you think you may be getting too old for their gifts, being in college and an adult now?
For the rest, is living at school an option?
posted by kellyblah at 4:32 PM on February 7, 2010
For the rest, is living at school an option?
posted by kellyblah at 4:32 PM on February 7, 2010
I feel for you. Your situation sounds very frustrating. The problem is that you are bargaining from a position of weakness. You live in your parents house, they control your car, they (apparently) tell you what to do. I'm not coming down on you, it sounds like you got the short end of the stick. However, if you truly want to do what you want to do, free of obligations to people that you dislike, then you must do it without their aid. In short, if you are impossibly bothered by this situation, move out. This is a hard decision. It may not be the best decision for you financially or academically. Only you can make that decision. Otherwise, you need to buck up, grit your teeth and bear it until you can move out.
You do not sound ungrateful. Disliking someone that you find hateful (even though they show politeness to you) is not being ungrateful. I come from an interracial family. The white side of my family has several members who are very racist. They would say things around me but still act polite to me. I despise them for their beliefs. Just because they sent me birthday presents or I saw them at Thanksgiving doesn't mean that they were not flagrantly racist. Anyway, enough about me. There isn't an easy way to not accept their gifts without letting it be known why. If you do choose this route be prepared to defend yourself and to deal with any of the fallout. I'm not saying that (refusing the gifts) is a bad decision, only that it is one that will have repercussions. Once again, the solution is to be completely independent and deal with people on your own terms.
posted by anansi at 4:37 PM on February 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
You do not sound ungrateful. Disliking someone that you find hateful (even though they show politeness to you) is not being ungrateful. I come from an interracial family. The white side of my family has several members who are very racist. They would say things around me but still act polite to me. I despise them for their beliefs. Just because they sent me birthday presents or I saw them at Thanksgiving doesn't mean that they were not flagrantly racist. Anyway, enough about me. There isn't an easy way to not accept their gifts without letting it be known why. If you do choose this route be prepared to defend yourself and to deal with any of the fallout. I'm not saying that (refusing the gifts) is a bad decision, only that it is one that will have repercussions. Once again, the solution is to be completely independent and deal with people on your own terms.
posted by anansi at 4:37 PM on February 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
That sounds like a difficult situation to have to live in day in and day out. Do you know the serenity prayer? "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." You're not going to change your mom or your elders. You can only change your response to them. So practice saying, "Thanks for that input," and "I hadn't thought of it that way," and "I'll keep that in mind." Meanwhile, continue making plans to leave home. Those monetary gifts can go either into your savings account for leaving town, or to the charity of your choice. Hang in there, sweetie, you'll get out of there soon.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 4:42 PM on February 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 4:42 PM on February 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Give the gifts to charity, if possible. It might especially please you to give to a charity that they wouldn't deem appropriate or worthwhile that really is (you say they're nasty and hateful, so this might be possible).
posted by k8lin at 4:51 PM on February 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by k8lin at 4:51 PM on February 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Regarding the car: do you pay for your insurance? The insurance may require you to have the title of the car in your name. Some do, some don't, some states have different rules on this. That might force their hand on that one, which gets you a step farther out of their reach.
posted by Weighted Companion Cube at 4:57 PM on February 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Weighted Companion Cube at 4:57 PM on February 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Dear Auntie/Uncle Dada,
I am grateful to have been able to donate the generous $5 you sent me to the Southern Poverty Law center. Together with the gifts from Grandmother and Grandfather Jenkins and Uncle Doodoo, and some that I contributed from my own earnings, I was able to send them nearly $50 to help in their work against injustice and poverty, two causes I know you will agree with.
While your gesture to me on my birthday is appreciated as a symbol of our deep familial connection, I want you to know that, since I am an adult now, I will understand completely if you choose to make any future charitable contributions directly and hope I will remember you as my uncle and elder even if you do not send me any token. As I continue to mature as a [man|woman], I hope to become the kind of person who takes responsibility for making the world a better place, and to bring honor to our family in this way.
With deepest respect and sincerity,
Your nephew,
Albert Nonymous
posted by amtho at 5:03 PM on February 7, 2010 [48 favorites]
I am grateful to have been able to donate the generous $5 you sent me to the Southern Poverty Law center. Together with the gifts from Grandmother and Grandfather Jenkins and Uncle Doodoo, and some that I contributed from my own earnings, I was able to send them nearly $50 to help in their work against injustice and poverty, two causes I know you will agree with.
While your gesture to me on my birthday is appreciated as a symbol of our deep familial connection, I want you to know that, since I am an adult now, I will understand completely if you choose to make any future charitable contributions directly and hope I will remember you as my uncle and elder even if you do not send me any token. As I continue to mature as a [man|woman], I hope to become the kind of person who takes responsibility for making the world a better place, and to bring honor to our family in this way.
With deepest respect and sincerity,
Your nephew,
Albert Nonymous
posted by amtho at 5:03 PM on February 7, 2010 [48 favorites]
Dear Anon, you're feeling the strain of wanting to be an independent adult, yet being taught and expected to be dependent on the wants and desires of others.
It's possible to accept gifts without responding the way people expect you to. Gifts are just that, gifts, and it is unreasonable to give something and expect that it obligates the receiver to do anything except say "thank you."
Tell your parents that it's time for you to have the car in your name. If they say no, you can bring them to small claims court. You paid for the car, you own it. It's their choice if they want to be in the wrong about something that's yours, and great evidence that you should get out pronto.
So, take the gifts if you want, but live your life as you want too. Lots of people live on their own, and you can too. You may take several steps down in terms of certain qualities of life (you may rent a room in an apartment with people you don't know, you may live in a lesser neighborhood). However, with all of this also comes the freedom to decide how you want to live.
I suspect if you look into what independent life actually costs, you will find it's not so daunting. Go apartment hunting with a friend. Look at the cost of a reliable, high-mileage used car (or a bike, if you're in a bike-friendly area).
Good luck.
posted by zippy at 5:18 PM on February 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
It's possible to accept gifts without responding the way people expect you to. Gifts are just that, gifts, and it is unreasonable to give something and expect that it obligates the receiver to do anything except say "thank you."
Tell your parents that it's time for you to have the car in your name. If they say no, you can bring them to small claims court. You paid for the car, you own it. It's their choice if they want to be in the wrong about something that's yours, and great evidence that you should get out pronto.
So, take the gifts if you want, but live your life as you want too. Lots of people live on their own, and you can too. You may take several steps down in terms of certain qualities of life (you may rent a room in an apartment with people you don't know, you may live in a lesser neighborhood). However, with all of this also comes the freedom to decide how you want to live.
I suspect if you look into what independent life actually costs, you will find it's not so daunting. Go apartment hunting with a friend. Look at the cost of a reliable, high-mileage used car (or a bike, if you're in a bike-friendly area).
Good luck.
posted by zippy at 5:18 PM on February 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
When they give me these gifts, they use it as a way to obligate me to call them more or visit more. They leave me angry messages if I don't... Again I know that they are being generous by giving me anything, and I don't deserve it, I know this whole problem is ungrateful, but I can't take it anymore.
It doesn't sound like they're being generous. It sounds like they're trying to buy your compliance for peanuts. You shouldn't feel guilty for taking offense at that; it is offensive.
Rather than stopping the gifts from coming, treat them as if they were actually gifts. Say thank you, and move on. It's not the $5 that's a problem, it's the guilt and manipulation that are problems. Send them back, preferably unopened.
I think you need to learn to distinguish between relationships that are healthy and supportive and those that are fundamentally destructive. When you sense that someone is hell-bent on getting their own needs met but completely disinterested in your well-being, that's a relationship you need to back away from. There is no shame in refusing to sacrifice yourself to the weaknesses that bedevil your relatives.
posted by jon1270 at 5:23 PM on February 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
It doesn't sound like they're being generous. It sounds like they're trying to buy your compliance for peanuts. You shouldn't feel guilty for taking offense at that; it is offensive.
Rather than stopping the gifts from coming, treat them as if they were actually gifts. Say thank you, and move on. It's not the $5 that's a problem, it's the guilt and manipulation that are problems. Send them back, preferably unopened.
I think you need to learn to distinguish between relationships that are healthy and supportive and those that are fundamentally destructive. When you sense that someone is hell-bent on getting their own needs met but completely disinterested in your well-being, that's a relationship you need to back away from. There is no shame in refusing to sacrifice yourself to the weaknesses that bedevil your relatives.
posted by jon1270 at 5:23 PM on February 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
Would you consider forfeiting the car so that you could move into housing on or near campus? Right now, your parents are using the car to control you and keep you under their supervision. Is your college located in an urban area where you could get around by public transit or bike? If you move out, perhaps they will cool down and decide to let you have your car back after awhile.
Regarding your mom's status climbing attitude and your relatives, my advice to you is to pick your battles wisely. There are some battles not worth the energy of fighting or damaging relationships. If you don't want to receive presents from your bigoted relatives, just tell them you feel uncomfortable taking money or gifts from them. They might be relieved at not having to send you $5 on your birthday. If they persist, you could donate the $5 to a charity or you could find a way to slip the $5 back to them the next time you are doing some work. Perhaps you could take the high road and say you feel bad taking their hard earned and carefully saved money.
As an added bonus, if you no longer have access to your car, maybe you won't be able to make it over to do chores for your relatives.
posted by pluckysparrow at 5:25 PM on February 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Regarding your mom's status climbing attitude and your relatives, my advice to you is to pick your battles wisely. There are some battles not worth the energy of fighting or damaging relationships. If you don't want to receive presents from your bigoted relatives, just tell them you feel uncomfortable taking money or gifts from them. They might be relieved at not having to send you $5 on your birthday. If they persist, you could donate the $5 to a charity or you could find a way to slip the $5 back to them the next time you are doing some work. Perhaps you could take the high road and say you feel bad taking their hard earned and carefully saved money.
As an added bonus, if you no longer have access to your car, maybe you won't be able to make it over to do chores for your relatives.
posted by pluckysparrow at 5:25 PM on February 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
#1. Drown Mom in pro-forma, by droning on and on politely and minutely, in this manner:
"Is UVA better my school? Well, according to the Newsweek rankings, UVA (often referred to as Mr. jefferson's University, as it was founded by Thomas Jefferson, the author of the Declaration of Independence and the third President of the United States) ranks number X, while my school ranks Y. Now of course that's not the full picture, as you have to understand that UVA Law School ranks very highly, on par with Ivy League schools. And in fact, UVA is the most preferred public university in the entire United States...."
And keep droning on, until Mom regrets having ever asked you the question. Later in the day, pop up to "helpfully" inform her of more fun facts about UVA, "since I know you're so interested". Do this politely and with "enthusiasm", and she'll soon learn not to ask stupid questions. Maybe add a few wistful "I wish I'd gotten into UVA" if you want to turn the screws.
As for your relatives, what amtho suggests, though since I'm guessing your family is South Asian, maybe some all-religions-are-equally-valid ecumenical-Jew-Muslim-Hindu-all-holding-hands-kumbaya charity is a better bet. Or something Richard-Dawkins-y if you really want to piss people off.
posted by orthogonality at 5:25 PM on February 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
"Is UVA better my school? Well, according to the Newsweek rankings, UVA (often referred to as Mr. jefferson's University, as it was founded by Thomas Jefferson, the author of the Declaration of Independence and the third President of the United States) ranks number X, while my school ranks Y. Now of course that's not the full picture, as you have to understand that UVA Law School ranks very highly, on par with Ivy League schools. And in fact, UVA is the most preferred public university in the entire United States...."
And keep droning on, until Mom regrets having ever asked you the question. Later in the day, pop up to "helpfully" inform her of more fun facts about UVA, "since I know you're so interested". Do this politely and with "enthusiasm", and she'll soon learn not to ask stupid questions. Maybe add a few wistful "I wish I'd gotten into UVA" if you want to turn the screws.
As for your relatives, what amtho suggests, though since I'm guessing your family is South Asian, maybe some all-religions-are-equally-valid ecumenical-Jew-Muslim-Hindu-all-holding-hands-kumbaya charity is a better bet. Or something Richard-Dawkins-y if you really want to piss people off.
posted by orthogonality at 5:25 PM on February 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
You mis-stated your problems. Problem #1 is not your mother's attitude about college and your peers, it's this:
"When I bought it, when I was 17, they said it couldn't be in my name and I trusted them."
You have a serious issue. All of these people will find ways big and small to exert control over you for the rest of your life. You will never be able to modify your behavior enough to "have the upper hand." Never.
If you feel inclined, you could leave the car behind and move out. This is what I suggest. OK if they won't pay for college or whatever - find another way to support yourslelf. School loans. Work. People do it. You can do it. You will feel better about yourself if you do it this way.
Otherwise, you can work towards that magical day when you graduate college, you can grin and bear it through the unbearable - but watch out! By the time you graduate college, they'll have constructed new traps for you so that they can further maintain the balance of power in their favor. Even if you are allowed to "move out" one day, they won't let you go far. You'll have to stay close by.
You could try talking to your parents now and politely call them out on their actions and attitudes where you are concerned. You could try and establish your autonomy. But I worry they are fully aware of what they are doing. Could I be right? Or do you think maybe this is all just cultural and automatic for them?
Ignore the elderly relatives. Give the money away when you get it. Keep a stack of thank you notes and use them. Delete their stupid voicemails w/out listening to them. And when you must go do your duty, be cheery and claim ignorance/phonebroke/whatever if they ask you about their messages. Really.
Good luck
posted by jbenben at 5:29 PM on February 7, 2010 [7 favorites]
"When I bought it, when I was 17, they said it couldn't be in my name and I trusted them."
You have a serious issue. All of these people will find ways big and small to exert control over you for the rest of your life. You will never be able to modify your behavior enough to "have the upper hand." Never.
If you feel inclined, you could leave the car behind and move out. This is what I suggest. OK if they won't pay for college or whatever - find another way to support yourslelf. School loans. Work. People do it. You can do it. You will feel better about yourself if you do it this way.
Otherwise, you can work towards that magical day when you graduate college, you can grin and bear it through the unbearable - but watch out! By the time you graduate college, they'll have constructed new traps for you so that they can further maintain the balance of power in their favor. Even if you are allowed to "move out" one day, they won't let you go far. You'll have to stay close by.
You could try talking to your parents now and politely call them out on their actions and attitudes where you are concerned. You could try and establish your autonomy. But I worry they are fully aware of what they are doing. Could I be right? Or do you think maybe this is all just cultural and automatic for them?
Ignore the elderly relatives. Give the money away when you get it. Keep a stack of thank you notes and use them. Delete their stupid voicemails w/out listening to them. And when you must go do your duty, be cheery and claim ignorance/phonebroke/whatever if they ask you about their messages. Really.
Good luck
posted by jbenben at 5:29 PM on February 7, 2010 [7 favorites]
amtho, that's poetry. Can't better that.
Is there a polite way to get her to stop?
Probably not.
It makes me feel really ashamed and defeated. It also kind of makes me angry because I was the one who did the work to get where I am.
It makes you angry because you haven't yet learned to regard it as the bird noises it actually is. You're still treating it as words, as conversation with meaning and intent to persuade, when basically all it is is Mother Bird saying Peep, Peep, Peep, Here I Am, Are You OK?
If it was so important to her for me to beat all my friends why didn't she help me the way their parents helped them?
Give her a little credit. As you said, the way she's raised you has made you strong and self-sufficient and able to make your way in the world, and she's proud of you. To a greater extent than you probably realize at 19, you are her creation, and she wants to be reassured that you're a good one.
I also think that her way of thinking is... I don't really know the word for it, but maybe somewhat crass.
Well, yeah, it is. But did she have the same opportunities to widen her world view that you did? I doubt it.
Let her be who she is, and think how she thinks, and love her for being your Mum, and forgive her her faults, and concentrate on the things you really like about her. Don't sweat the bird noises.
And start buying your own food, and saving for a replacement car.
posted by flabdablet at 5:42 PM on February 7, 2010 [6 favorites]
Is there a polite way to get her to stop?
Probably not.
It makes me feel really ashamed and defeated. It also kind of makes me angry because I was the one who did the work to get where I am.
It makes you angry because you haven't yet learned to regard it as the bird noises it actually is. You're still treating it as words, as conversation with meaning and intent to persuade, when basically all it is is Mother Bird saying Peep, Peep, Peep, Here I Am, Are You OK?
If it was so important to her for me to beat all my friends why didn't she help me the way their parents helped them?
Give her a little credit. As you said, the way she's raised you has made you strong and self-sufficient and able to make your way in the world, and she's proud of you. To a greater extent than you probably realize at 19, you are her creation, and she wants to be reassured that you're a good one.
I also think that her way of thinking is... I don't really know the word for it, but maybe somewhat crass.
Well, yeah, it is. But did she have the same opportunities to widen her world view that you did? I doubt it.
Let her be who she is, and think how she thinks, and love her for being your Mum, and forgive her her faults, and concentrate on the things you really like about her. Don't sweat the bird noises.
And start buying your own food, and saving for a replacement car.
posted by flabdablet at 5:42 PM on February 7, 2010 [6 favorites]
You probably won't actually need to buy the replacement car. But having saved the money to do so will mean that you will win the negotiation about transferring your existing car into your name. Once the car is no longer an effective means of control, your parents lose nothing by letting go of it. And you end up with a car in your name plus a nice little nest egg to get you set up independently.
posted by flabdablet at 5:48 PM on February 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 5:48 PM on February 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
Well, in my situation, I pooled the trinkets, bought a nice fat bag of weed, and tried not to give a crap until I was able to move out. It appeased my internal guilt for accepting money from the jerks in my family and made me numb, rather than angry, about their ignorance for just a little while longer.
Seriously, car or no car, you need to leave if you ever want peace of mind. Officially leaving the nest (or at least establishing independence) is that huge and concrete step that every well-adjusted person from any background must someday take but nobody ever mentions.
If you're ballsy enough, I nth amtho.
posted by theraflu at 6:23 PM on February 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Seriously, car or no car, you need to leave if you ever want peace of mind. Officially leaving the nest (or at least establishing independence) is that huge and concrete step that every well-adjusted person from any background must someday take but nobody ever mentions.
If you're ballsy enough, I nth amtho.
posted by theraflu at 6:23 PM on February 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you can, give up the car and move out. Then, when Mom asks why you're not visiting, you can say "Gee, I would, but I don't have a car."
posted by amyms at 6:52 PM on February 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by amyms at 6:52 PM on February 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
Your parents sound like mine - they were obsessed with my academic and financial success while at the same time protective and controlling. I moved out of my parents house in the second year of undergrad - a very tough move at the time given the nature of my parents but it was definitely the right decision. As soon as I finished undergrad, I moved away for grad school and now live happily thousands of miles away. Perhaps it's the distance or the time, but I feel that my parents have softened quite a bit over the years - with the added benefit that I contact them on my terms.
From what you've said, you need to move out as soon as you can. Do whatever you have to - take another job, get financial aid, buy another car, whatever - but just get out of your parents house.
posted by pravit at 7:15 PM on February 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
From what you've said, you need to move out as soon as you can. Do whatever you have to - take another job, get financial aid, buy another car, whatever - but just get out of your parents house.
posted by pravit at 7:15 PM on February 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't know if this work for you, but it would be nice to find a bland response to your mother's competitive comments that would avoid any confrontation or disrespect but not engage in her competitiveness. Perhaps something like "I have no idea, Mother" and then if she pushes you say "Now that I am in college, I have found that I do better if avoid comparing myself with others so I just couldn't say". Be equally unhelpful with any efforts to compare you with others.
posted by metahawk at 7:26 PM on February 7, 2010
posted by metahawk at 7:26 PM on February 7, 2010
Ignore the chattering classes. Bide your time, prepare in private to move out when the opportunity affords itself.
Draw up a contract to have the ownership of the car transferred to you for the sum of one dollar. Let your parents know that you'll be moving out regardless, but that if they want your respect in the future they need to show it beginning now.
Follow through.
posted by furtive at 7:41 PM on February 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Draw up a contract to have the ownership of the car transferred to you for the sum of one dollar. Let your parents know that you'll be moving out regardless, but that if they want your respect in the future they need to show it beginning now.
Follow through.
posted by furtive at 7:41 PM on February 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
You don't mention the presence of friends in your question. This is about the age where many people start moving out and living on their own, and it's the perfect time for roommates. Don't discount the value of friends to the process of asserting your independence.
posted by Mizu at 7:44 PM on February 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Mizu at 7:44 PM on February 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is a tough situation and I don't have any advice about your two questions. I would like to say, however, that you should do whatever it takes to complete college in a timely manner. Taking time off is dangerous! Sometimes, its what needs to be done. But if at all possible, if it comes down to the choice between moving out and staying in school, stay in school.
good luck! :)
posted by rebent at 7:44 PM on February 7, 2010
good luck! :)
posted by rebent at 7:44 PM on February 7, 2010
Do you have someone else from your culture who has broken out, whom you can talk to? A disreputable uncle or a black sheep cousin?
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 8:11 PM on February 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 8:11 PM on February 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
It has taken me a long time to deal with feelings of inadequacy and stop thinking in these thought patterns myself. When my mother does it, it really bothers me. But she will get angry if I am rude or "tell her what to do." Is there a polite way to get her to stop? It makes me feel really ashamed and defeated. It also kind of makes me angry because I was the one who did the work to get where I am.
First thing - you can't control other people; you can't "make" them do things. You can only control your own reactions. I agree with flabdalet that these are bird noises. Ok, so she's really into competition and status and rankings. You're not. She's entitled to her opinion. You don't have to subscribe to it, and you don't have to be affected by it. I think you feel ashamed and defeated because in telling her what to do, she beats you down with a "how dare you question me" attitude and you're reminded of your inability to change her POV. Just remember: you can't. This is nothing to be ashamed of. So don't talk back to her, and don't tell her what to do, because you know the reaction you'll get. Accept the fact that she will always be like this. Instead, capitalize on her ignorance and inject some humour into the "conversation:" "Don't worry mom, I'm still doing better than Billy. My school is ranked at about 100 places above his." (even if in fact he's in a higher ranked school.) Maybe it'll help her see that her comparing you to your friends is a bit silly. That's how I tried to deal with my mom and her (what I used to see as) annoying opinions - inject some humour in, and she would laugh too.
If it was so important to her for me to beat all my friends why didn't she help me the way their parents helped them? I also think that her way of thinking is... I don't really know the word for it, but maybe somewhat crass.
My sense is that you don't feel good enough for her. I feel that you feel she checks up on you to see if you're doing better than your friends. Like someone else said, give credit where it's due: your family did a good job of raising you if you are this independent. That's great. Now she's still trying to make sure that they did a good job by seeing if you are still better than your friends. Of course it's messed up, but I am trying to say that you don't have to feel this way. Her way of thinking is ridiculous, and one-up-ing (and crass, for sure).
As for the $5 tokens. You say these are birthday gifts. So you get them once a year. Would it kill you just to do the obligatory "Hi, thanks for the gifts" phone call and talk to them for about 10 minutes? Or do they also do this at Christmas, other major holidays throughout the year?
Another observation about your post - you lay out your options as being very narrow and extreme. i.e. you either do everything you're supposed to do and submit, or you be rude. You continue to live at home under their rules or run away and never speak to them again. Try to find something in the middle, and it begins with changing your thinking. I completely understand it's hard and stressful but this is getting to you because... you're letting it. (This is where you could invoke the Serenity prayer.) You're giving power to their words and so it affects you. We all want our families to be what we want, but they're doing the exact same thing to us. As far as I can tell, they're not being abusive. Yes they are overbearing and annoying and demanding, but you also have a lot going for you. I've seen a lot of mefites say "therapy is recommend a lot on Ask Mefi" (as if that's a bad thing?) but it may help to access some mental health resources at your school. That's the time to use them - when you're in college and those resources are cheap or free.
posted by foxjacket at 8:51 PM on February 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
First thing - you can't control other people; you can't "make" them do things. You can only control your own reactions. I agree with flabdalet that these are bird noises. Ok, so she's really into competition and status and rankings. You're not. She's entitled to her opinion. You don't have to subscribe to it, and you don't have to be affected by it. I think you feel ashamed and defeated because in telling her what to do, she beats you down with a "how dare you question me" attitude and you're reminded of your inability to change her POV. Just remember: you can't. This is nothing to be ashamed of. So don't talk back to her, and don't tell her what to do, because you know the reaction you'll get. Accept the fact that she will always be like this. Instead, capitalize on her ignorance and inject some humour into the "conversation:" "Don't worry mom, I'm still doing better than Billy. My school is ranked at about 100 places above his." (even if in fact he's in a higher ranked school.) Maybe it'll help her see that her comparing you to your friends is a bit silly. That's how I tried to deal with my mom and her (what I used to see as) annoying opinions - inject some humour in, and she would laugh too.
If it was so important to her for me to beat all my friends why didn't she help me the way their parents helped them? I also think that her way of thinking is... I don't really know the word for it, but maybe somewhat crass.
My sense is that you don't feel good enough for her. I feel that you feel she checks up on you to see if you're doing better than your friends. Like someone else said, give credit where it's due: your family did a good job of raising you if you are this independent. That's great. Now she's still trying to make sure that they did a good job by seeing if you are still better than your friends. Of course it's messed up, but I am trying to say that you don't have to feel this way. Her way of thinking is ridiculous, and one-up-ing (and crass, for sure).
As for the $5 tokens. You say these are birthday gifts. So you get them once a year. Would it kill you just to do the obligatory "Hi, thanks for the gifts" phone call and talk to them for about 10 minutes? Or do they also do this at Christmas, other major holidays throughout the year?
Another observation about your post - you lay out your options as being very narrow and extreme. i.e. you either do everything you're supposed to do and submit, or you be rude. You continue to live at home under their rules or run away and never speak to them again. Try to find something in the middle, and it begins with changing your thinking. I completely understand it's hard and stressful but this is getting to you because... you're letting it. (This is where you could invoke the Serenity prayer.) You're giving power to their words and so it affects you. We all want our families to be what we want, but they're doing the exact same thing to us. As far as I can tell, they're not being abusive. Yes they are overbearing and annoying and demanding, but you also have a lot going for you. I've seen a lot of mefites say "therapy is recommend a lot on Ask Mefi" (as if that's a bad thing?) but it may help to access some mental health resources at your school. That's the time to use them - when you're in college and those resources are cheap or free.
posted by foxjacket at 8:51 PM on February 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Regarding problem 1, just don't discuss things that may lead your mom to get weirdly competitive. This will certainly limit your conversations with her. This might not be a bad thing.
posted by k8t at 10:17 PM on February 7, 2010
posted by k8t at 10:17 PM on February 7, 2010
I'd also recommend moving as far away as you can when you graduate.
posted by k8t at 10:18 PM on February 7, 2010
posted by k8t at 10:18 PM on February 7, 2010
Holding the car over you is easy for them, because car = big investment = something we don't want to lose.
But ask yourself: how much would you pay for peace of mind?
Independence is peace of mind. At a guess it's worth more than a car.
Start a new bank account, one that is under only your name, that your family does not know about.
Save up enough for three month's rent and a bus pass/bicycle/crappy functional car.
When you have it, move out.
posted by Billegible at 10:32 PM on February 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
But ask yourself: how much would you pay for peace of mind?
Independence is peace of mind. At a guess it's worth more than a car.
Start a new bank account, one that is under only your name, that your family does not know about.
Save up enough for three month's rent and a bus pass/bicycle/crappy functional car.
When you have it, move out.
posted by Billegible at 10:32 PM on February 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
My mother is very much like yours. I moved 3000 miles away at the first reasonable opportunity. The only times she talked to me in the months before I moved were to tearfully ask things like, "Why do you hate me so much?" or "What do you think your going to do out there?" My favorite was, "You're never coming home. I know I'll never see you again."
We're actually friends now.
posted by dchrssyr at 10:38 PM on February 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
We're actually friends now.
posted by dchrssyr at 10:38 PM on February 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'm forced to live at home with my parents.
You haven't fully considered all of your options.
posted by hermitosis at 10:43 PM on February 7, 2010 [6 favorites]
You haven't fully considered all of your options.
posted by hermitosis at 10:43 PM on February 7, 2010 [6 favorites]
I'm of asian descent (born in the US), and your family bears striking resemblances to mine. What I wish I had done when I lived at home:
Spend as much time outside of the house as possible. Drive to a local public library to do anything, come home only for dinner and sleep. When the libraries are closed, go to a coffee shop with wifi.
The other catch is that I do strongly believe in family and duty, so I couldn't just run away and never talk to any of them again
This is where we diverge, because that's pretty much what I did when I left home and finally graduated from university. I think this is the only thing that communicated how unpleasant I found them, and it did force upon them an attitude adjustment. I can't imagine anything else being as effective.
posted by mnemonic at 11:25 PM on February 7, 2010
Spend as much time outside of the house as possible. Drive to a local public library to do anything, come home only for dinner and sleep. When the libraries are closed, go to a coffee shop with wifi.
The other catch is that I do strongly believe in family and duty, so I couldn't just run away and never talk to any of them again
This is where we diverge, because that's pretty much what I did when I left home and finally graduated from university. I think this is the only thing that communicated how unpleasant I found them, and it did force upon them an attitude adjustment. I can't imagine anything else being as effective.
posted by mnemonic at 11:25 PM on February 7, 2010
anonymous: So, my mother will hear of one of my friends going to a school like UVA and make a competitive comment like, "Oh, he must not have gotten into YOUR school."
Print out the ranking table and hand it to her. Say, "I know you're really interested in US universities and how they rank against each other. I printed this out for you so that whenever you're curious about another school, you can just look it up here. Have fun!"
Whenever you get a question like this, say "I have no idea. I don't know anything about UVA. Why don't you look it up on the ranking table?"
You're going to think this comes at some expense to your pride, but it needn't. Because seriously, after your first job nobody cares where you went to school. Including, after a number of years, you. I know it seems really seriously important now and like where you landed in this ranking system will impact the rest of your life, but it won't. It is way, way more about the piece of paper than the name of the school at the top of it.
Even if his is ranked 15 places higher. Or she will just straight up ask me "Which is ranked higher, your school or his school?"
Again, "I have no idea. Why don't you look it up on the ranking table?"
posted by DarlingBri at 5:03 AM on February 8, 2010
Print out the ranking table and hand it to her. Say, "I know you're really interested in US universities and how they rank against each other. I printed this out for you so that whenever you're curious about another school, you can just look it up here. Have fun!"
Whenever you get a question like this, say "I have no idea. I don't know anything about UVA. Why don't you look it up on the ranking table?"
You're going to think this comes at some expense to your pride, but it needn't. Because seriously, after your first job nobody cares where you went to school. Including, after a number of years, you. I know it seems really seriously important now and like where you landed in this ranking system will impact the rest of your life, but it won't. It is way, way more about the piece of paper than the name of the school at the top of it.
Even if his is ranked 15 places higher. Or she will just straight up ask me "Which is ranked higher, your school or his school?"
Again, "I have no idea. Why don't you look it up on the ranking table?"
posted by DarlingBri at 5:03 AM on February 8, 2010
Leave ASAP. These people are not worth your consideration.
posted by beerbajay at 7:44 AM on February 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by beerbajay at 7:44 AM on February 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I want to do my duty to them and absolutely nothing else. When they give me these gifts, they use it as a way to obligate me to call them more or visit more.
The etiquitte books will tell you that the proper way to thank someone for a gift, especially if it's not given in person, is with a hand-written note. In practice, this has fallen out of favor (with the exception of wedding gifts) but I think it's beneficial here. It has the added benefit in your case that you don't have to speak with them in person. And since you've thanked them in the Emily Post-approved manner, they can't complain about it. (Well, they can, but you have the moral high ground if they do.) amtho's suggested response is one possible approach, but it doesn't have to be that long (nor say what you're doing with the money) if you don't want it to.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:31 AM on February 8, 2010
The etiquitte books will tell you that the proper way to thank someone for a gift, especially if it's not given in person, is with a hand-written note. In practice, this has fallen out of favor (with the exception of wedding gifts) but I think it's beneficial here. It has the added benefit in your case that you don't have to speak with them in person. And since you've thanked them in the Emily Post-approved manner, they can't complain about it. (Well, they can, but you have the moral high ground if they do.) amtho's suggested response is one possible approach, but it doesn't have to be that long (nor say what you're doing with the money) if you don't want it to.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:31 AM on February 8, 2010
Your parents sound like mine. You could move out now (leave the car behind and buy a used car... I assume the potential psychological trauma of taking your parents to court outweighs that of giving up your car), or you could finish college and move out right after. Make specific plans and follow through on them. Maintain your personal sense of right and wrong. It's amazing how many people will never realize all the things that you already know are true, for example that people are more than their college's ranking, people are not other people's puppets, that true relationships are reciprocal, etc. You've been blessed. As you have a strong sense of duty, look into yourself and ask how you can best do your duty to your blessing. And grow personally and spiritually so you can best understand your duty. I agree that you should investigate your school's counseling services. However many such offices don't offer many sessions, are ill-equipped/ill-staffed, and/or are not sensitive to non-majority cultures, so that may well fall through. I recommend reading Love is a Choice. It was written for Christians but I think it's still very helpful. Read up on codependency and personal boundaries. They have a lot of relevance to you.
Finally, get support. Don't do this alone. You need people who will cheer you on and help you process what you're dealing with, which is substantial.
Small aside: I used to think that my parents acted the way they did solely because of our culture, but over time I realized that their behavior was not a requirement of our culture, but an interpretation or distortion of it which gratified them. Some others in our culture interpret it similarly, but many do not and are kinder to their children. Perhaps that applies to your situation. If so, take comfort that you v. your parents is not the same as you v. your culture/self-identity. One less problem.
posted by halonine at 2:16 PM on February 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Finally, get support. Don't do this alone. You need people who will cheer you on and help you process what you're dealing with, which is substantial.
Small aside: I used to think that my parents acted the way they did solely because of our culture, but over time I realized that their behavior was not a requirement of our culture, but an interpretation or distortion of it which gratified them. Some others in our culture interpret it similarly, but many do not and are kinder to their children. Perhaps that applies to your situation. If so, take comfort that you v. your parents is not the same as you v. your culture/self-identity. One less problem.
posted by halonine at 2:16 PM on February 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
This may not be the best advise, but I've learned that being alive for a long time does not necessarily make a person any wiser or more respectable than anyone else.
posted by fuq at 2:25 PM on February 8, 2010
posted by fuq at 2:25 PM on February 8, 2010
« Older Rip and Burn Multiple Movies to a DVD using New 0... | I know I need a new wheel, but I don't know when. Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Faint of Butt at 4:25 PM on February 7, 2010 [9 favorites]