How do you deal with a jerk among friends?
May 27, 2006 11:31 AM Subscribe
How do we deal with the “cool guy” who has decided we are beneath him?
Background:
My husband and I are friends with a wonderful group of people, with ages ranging from early 20’s to mid 30’s. We get together at least twice a month for game night, movies, and dinners. One of the other friends in this circle is a male, early twenties, and in college. He was introduced to us about a year ago, and he frequently hangs out with various members of the group on his own time (as do we).
The issue:
When we were first introduced to him I thought it was a little odd that he made no attempt to speak with us, or even say hello or goodbye to either of us. Once in a while he will include my husband in the conversation, but it is usually to prove his point in some way. To my husband in particular he is arrogant, rude, and always asks my husband to justify things or decisions to him when there is no reason to at all. To sum it up, he always needs to argue, come across as the smartest one, and he downplays any input or opinions my husband or I have every time we say anything.
It has gotten to the point that we don’t like to speak when he is around. We have asked the other friends about him and we get replies such as, “He likes to test people,” and, “He likes to argue.” We aren’t overly sensitive people- it is just that I feel that debate has a time and a place, and my husband and I don’t know him well enough to feel like he is someone we can trade barbs with, debate, and be scathing with. He has made no attempt to get to know us at all, despite us asking questions about him and trying to show an interest. The most basic comments my husband makes (even a simple thing as saying that he doesn't like salt on his popcorn) are swung back in a dergading fashion and it is exhausting. We don't want to have to break out a text book for every conversation for fear of being ridiculed.
To everyone else this guy is considerate, intelligent, witty, friendly, and fun. To my husband he is a complete jerk, and treats both us like we have no place being in the same room with him. The rest of the group is very nonconfrontational and treats his behaviour like he is just being sarcastic, witty guy. I guess they don't see that he doesn't treat us in any other way than that.
Is there anything we can do besides find a new circle of friends?
Background:
My husband and I are friends with a wonderful group of people, with ages ranging from early 20’s to mid 30’s. We get together at least twice a month for game night, movies, and dinners. One of the other friends in this circle is a male, early twenties, and in college. He was introduced to us about a year ago, and he frequently hangs out with various members of the group on his own time (as do we).
The issue:
When we were first introduced to him I thought it was a little odd that he made no attempt to speak with us, or even say hello or goodbye to either of us. Once in a while he will include my husband in the conversation, but it is usually to prove his point in some way. To my husband in particular he is arrogant, rude, and always asks my husband to justify things or decisions to him when there is no reason to at all. To sum it up, he always needs to argue, come across as the smartest one, and he downplays any input or opinions my husband or I have every time we say anything.
It has gotten to the point that we don’t like to speak when he is around. We have asked the other friends about him and we get replies such as, “He likes to test people,” and, “He likes to argue.” We aren’t overly sensitive people- it is just that I feel that debate has a time and a place, and my husband and I don’t know him well enough to feel like he is someone we can trade barbs with, debate, and be scathing with. He has made no attempt to get to know us at all, despite us asking questions about him and trying to show an interest. The most basic comments my husband makes (even a simple thing as saying that he doesn't like salt on his popcorn) are swung back in a dergading fashion and it is exhausting. We don't want to have to break out a text book for every conversation for fear of being ridiculed.
To everyone else this guy is considerate, intelligent, witty, friendly, and fun. To my husband he is a complete jerk, and treats both us like we have no place being in the same room with him. The rest of the group is very nonconfrontational and treats his behaviour like he is just being sarcastic, witty guy. I guess they don't see that he doesn't treat us in any other way than that.
Is there anything we can do besides find a new circle of friends?
It sounds like the guy is trying to jockey for alpha male of the pack. In that light, the other men aren't a threat, but maybe your husband is smart, experienced, or assertive in some way that threatens Mr. Cool.
posted by rolypolyman at 11:37 AM on May 27, 2006
posted by rolypolyman at 11:37 AM on May 27, 2006
Also, I find asking some one why they feel the need to be a condescending ass, especially while within the group, is a good way to knock someone down a peg or two. Backing up lemur, just don't be a doormat.
posted by chrisroberts at 11:41 AM on May 27, 2006
posted by chrisroberts at 11:41 AM on May 27, 2006
Honestly, depending on how comfortable you are with your friends, just call him on it. While it seems to be human nature to avoid such conflict, it's amazing how much can be resolved by just saying "Hey, what the hell is your problem?" the next time he acts like that.
Other option, have your husband beat him up and piss on his leg, that should establish who's in charge quite nicely.
posted by KirTakat at 11:42 AM on May 27, 2006
Other option, have your husband beat him up and piss on his leg, that should establish who's in charge quite nicely.
posted by KirTakat at 11:42 AM on May 27, 2006
This is bound to happen -- in any sizable group of intelligent, adult people interconnected through a social network, you're going to encounter someone with whom you may not see eye-to-eye. Or even like the teeniest bit.
There are a couple of ways you can deal with this. I personally wouldn't go with lemur's suggestion, because if this guy indeed gets pleasure out of arguing and being contrary, you're only going to get into a pissing contest with him every single time, which will exhaust you, if not the rest of your friends.
I would try to deal with the situation head on. The next time Mr. Smarty Pants Debater takes issue with something you or your husband says, just look him directly in the eye and respond, "I'm not sure why you feel compelled to challenge everything we say. This is not a debate team. If you don't like us, just don't talk to us. No skin off our noses." Then shrug, and walk away. It doesn't have to be shrill or uncomfortably tense. Just state your case in a matter of fact way and leave it at that. Because it's pretty obvious that's what's going on here, and you're already thinking of abandoning an otherwise perfectly good circle of friends to avoid conflict with this guy. And abandoning your friends may be what this guy wants from you, so don't give him the satisfaction.
Also, don't be afraid to tell your other friends you simply don't like him and aren't interested in being around him. make it clear you're not saying it's him or the two of you, but also don't be afraid to let people know his behavior makes you uncomfortable. It's not a crime not to like other people, even people others find "considerate, intelligent, witty, friendly, and fun." Some of the people I've known who fit that description can also occasionally be massive pains in the ass. And others may feel the same way.
posted by mrkinla at 11:50 AM on May 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
There are a couple of ways you can deal with this. I personally wouldn't go with lemur's suggestion, because if this guy indeed gets pleasure out of arguing and being contrary, you're only going to get into a pissing contest with him every single time, which will exhaust you, if not the rest of your friends.
I would try to deal with the situation head on. The next time Mr. Smarty Pants Debater takes issue with something you or your husband says, just look him directly in the eye and respond, "I'm not sure why you feel compelled to challenge everything we say. This is not a debate team. If you don't like us, just don't talk to us. No skin off our noses." Then shrug, and walk away. It doesn't have to be shrill or uncomfortably tense. Just state your case in a matter of fact way and leave it at that. Because it's pretty obvious that's what's going on here, and you're already thinking of abandoning an otherwise perfectly good circle of friends to avoid conflict with this guy. And abandoning your friends may be what this guy wants from you, so don't give him the satisfaction.
Also, don't be afraid to tell your other friends you simply don't like him and aren't interested in being around him. make it clear you're not saying it's him or the two of you, but also don't be afraid to let people know his behavior makes you uncomfortable. It's not a crime not to like other people, even people others find "considerate, intelligent, witty, friendly, and fun." Some of the people I've known who fit that description can also occasionally be massive pains in the ass. And others may feel the same way.
posted by mrkinla at 11:50 AM on May 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
It sounds like the guy is trying to jockey for alpha male of the pack. In that light, the other men aren't a threat, but maybe your husband is smart, experienced, or assertive in some way...
Not necessarily. Could be, her husband is just the chosen target. Wannabe alpha-males feel compelled to make an example of someone (a designated doormat) to establish their superiority by contrast. From the poster's description, I'd wager that's more likely than her husband posing a specific threat.
Is there anything you can do? Sure. Is there anything you can do to achieve your desired result of getting things back to "the way they were"? Probably not. From the available options, I'd guess from your brief description that "walking away" is probably the best fit for your personalities. You don't sound inclined toward aggression or social gamesmanship. You'll get lots of replies from people saying, "I would confront him" — and that's fine, and so would I, but it doesn't sound like you would.
posted by cribcage at 11:52 AM on May 27, 2006
Not necessarily. Could be, her husband is just the chosen target. Wannabe alpha-males feel compelled to make an example of someone (a designated doormat) to establish their superiority by contrast. From the poster's description, I'd wager that's more likely than her husband posing a specific threat.
Is there anything you can do? Sure. Is there anything you can do to achieve your desired result of getting things back to "the way they were"? Probably not. From the available options, I'd guess from your brief description that "walking away" is probably the best fit for your personalities. You don't sound inclined toward aggression or social gamesmanship. You'll get lots of replies from people saying, "I would confront him" — and that's fine, and so would I, but it doesn't sound like you would.
posted by cribcage at 11:52 AM on May 27, 2006
There's someone like this in my circle of friends. Common opinion is that his behavior comes from his self-esteem issues--he's overcompensating and comes off as a jerk. When we're on this guy's home turf he's more relaxed. And we also know that he likes to argue and finds it intellectually stimulating to be engaged in a good debate (or even a bad debate), and that there's no hard feelings even if he loses his point badly.
Also, I can be quiet and shy around new people, and sometimes it's been taken as arrogance on my part--not at all what I intended.
So maybe this guy is a little intimidated by your husband. Sounds like you and your husband stand up for yourselves, which this guy might both respect and take as a challenge. Next time a debate starts to flare up, diffuse it with a shrug and a non-specific concession like "Maybe you're right. Not worth arguing about anyway." Then quickly change the subject to something you all agree on. Or walk away.
posted by hydrophonic at 11:56 AM on May 27, 2006
Also, I can be quiet and shy around new people, and sometimes it's been taken as arrogance on my part--not at all what I intended.
So maybe this guy is a little intimidated by your husband. Sounds like you and your husband stand up for yourselves, which this guy might both respect and take as a challenge. Next time a debate starts to flare up, diffuse it with a shrug and a non-specific concession like "Maybe you're right. Not worth arguing about anyway." Then quickly change the subject to something you all agree on. Or walk away.
posted by hydrophonic at 11:56 AM on May 27, 2006
A lot of people are talking about this alpha-male theory, but I don't really buy it.
It's possible that he just doesn't like you for some reason. Maybe your husband offended him somehow?
Like, maybe your husband at one point said something that offended his sensibilities and the guy just decided you were beneath him (it could be a political thing, maybe? Or maybe your husband has some personality trait that just grates on him)
Well, good luck anyway.
posted by delmoi at 12:21 PM on May 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
It's possible that he just doesn't like you for some reason. Maybe your husband offended him somehow?
Like, maybe your husband at one point said something that offended his sensibilities and the guy just decided you were beneath him (it could be a political thing, maybe? Or maybe your husband has some personality trait that just grates on him)
Well, good luck anyway.
posted by delmoi at 12:21 PM on May 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't confront him overtly asking why he does it, it'd be useless, and it'd be awkard towards your common friends. You're not being a doormat, you're being considerate of the fact you have friends in common.
From what you say, he sounds like an annoying child everyone else is making excuses for. Treat him like a child too, then.
When he feels compelled to act all sarcastic, just feign exaggerated amusement, oh you're so funny!, like you don't take him seriously at all, but still pretend you're flattering him; or just ignore him and change conversation to something more interesting. It won't change his attitude, but it'll make it less of a bother to you if you can distance yourself a bit more from it.
posted by funambulist at 12:31 PM on May 27, 2006
From what you say, he sounds like an annoying child everyone else is making excuses for. Treat him like a child too, then.
When he feels compelled to act all sarcastic, just feign exaggerated amusement, oh you're so funny!, like you don't take him seriously at all, but still pretend you're flattering him; or just ignore him and change conversation to something more interesting. It won't change his attitude, but it'll make it less of a bother to you if you can distance yourself a bit more from it.
posted by funambulist at 12:31 PM on May 27, 2006
I second he has self esteem issues. I have a friend like this, when he spouts off he (and everyone in vicinity) need to hear 'who pissed in your cheerios?' Failing that, try 'Hey! it's not my fault your 5' nothing! Don't take this out on me!'
He only wants to pick on easy targets--so don't be one.
Unfortunately for me, the offending individual is sly and only strikes after a few drinks when I am least expecting.
posted by vaportrail at 12:32 PM on May 27, 2006
He only wants to pick on easy targets--so don't be one.
Unfortunately for me, the offending individual is sly and only strikes after a few drinks when I am least expecting.
posted by vaportrail at 12:32 PM on May 27, 2006
It sounds like he has an insecurity.
Focus on the fact that it is HIS problem, not yours.
Know that God has created you as a wonderful unique being / couple and that you are loved by Him.
posted by pettins at 12:35 PM on May 27, 2006
Focus on the fact that it is HIS problem, not yours.
Know that God has created you as a wonderful unique being / couple and that you are loved by Him.
posted by pettins at 12:35 PM on May 27, 2006
It's fair to say (as many others have pointed out) that this guy's issues arise from low self-esteem, but there is a third alternative to ignoring him or fighting back: satisfying his esteem issues by drawing him out.
When he says, "Putting salt on your popcorn is the stupidest thing I've ever heard" (or whatever his putdown is that day), take a deep breath, turn to him, and say something like, "Really? That's an interesting idea. Why do you say that?"
The key is to engage him with genuine-- as genuine as you can possibly make it-- interest and curiosity. Don't react to his offensiveness, but get beyond it to the REAL point: if all he wants is attention, give it to him.
Seems like one of two things could happen: either he is truly, truly an asshole and he'll look at you with disgust and storm off, at which point you are perfectly justified saying publicly, "What an asshole!" and writing him off forever, using this episode as your explanation as to why.
Or you will disarm him. He'll be unable to sustain his attitude when you're nodding and saying, "You know, you've got a point" about whatever his inane comment is. But the key is not to turn it into an insult. Do your utmost to be genuine, even if only to express a genuine interest in the perspective of someone who is fundamentally different from you.
It's hard to do, at first, and it may take some time. But if you approach it this way you'll have taken the high road, and that's a much better place to be than walking along the low road right beside him.
posted by woot at 1:00 PM on May 27, 2006
When he says, "Putting salt on your popcorn is the stupidest thing I've ever heard" (or whatever his putdown is that day), take a deep breath, turn to him, and say something like, "Really? That's an interesting idea. Why do you say that?"
The key is to engage him with genuine-- as genuine as you can possibly make it-- interest and curiosity. Don't react to his offensiveness, but get beyond it to the REAL point: if all he wants is attention, give it to him.
Seems like one of two things could happen: either he is truly, truly an asshole and he'll look at you with disgust and storm off, at which point you are perfectly justified saying publicly, "What an asshole!" and writing him off forever, using this episode as your explanation as to why.
Or you will disarm him. He'll be unable to sustain his attitude when you're nodding and saying, "You know, you've got a point" about whatever his inane comment is. But the key is not to turn it into an insult. Do your utmost to be genuine, even if only to express a genuine interest in the perspective of someone who is fundamentally different from you.
It's hard to do, at first, and it may take some time. But if you approach it this way you'll have taken the high road, and that's a much better place to be than walking along the low road right beside him.
posted by woot at 1:00 PM on May 27, 2006
Heh, I was gonna post a question similar to this next week! I'm in this exact same situation. I've been hanging out with the same group of friends for the last 10 years. I seem to be the designated target for one particular guy, because I'm of different ethnicity than the rest of the group, much taller, balding, have an accent, and so on. You name it, I probably got ridiculed for it. Mind you, only one person initiates it. Enough is enough though. If it happens tonight, I'm calling him on it. I expect it'll go something like this:
him: "what's the deal with ...."
me: "listen dude, i'm here to relax. fuck off and don't talk to me or we're gonna have a real problem on our hands".
I'm the most non-confrontational person you'll ever meet but I'm just tired of this shit.
posted by aeighty at 1:07 PM on May 27, 2006
him: "what's the deal with ...."
me: "listen dude, i'm here to relax. fuck off and don't talk to me or we're gonna have a real problem on our hands".
I'm the most non-confrontational person you'll ever meet but I'm just tired of this shit.
posted by aeighty at 1:07 PM on May 27, 2006
Call him on it once right in the middle of your crowd of friends. Don't back down. I suspect that will be the end of your problem. Good luck. You deserve better than this dude's baloney.
posted by bim at 1:08 PM on May 27, 2006
posted by bim at 1:08 PM on May 27, 2006
I have met some incredibly argumentative people - some of them like to argue, some just like to hear themselves talk. Arguing back or telling them to shutup never stops anything, it only makes things worse most of the time.
Someone suggested saying this:
"I'm not sure why you feel compelled to challenge everything we say. This is not a debate team. If you don't like us, just don't talk to us. No skin off our noses."
This is good advice. However, I have essentially tried something like this. Unfortunately, I said it to the most argumentative person I have met my entire life (in retrospect, at the time I was kind of in shock). She was completely oblivious to this line of reasoning, because I was ignorant and she kept trying to explain why I was wrong, she was right, and why she needed to keep repeating herself so that I would understand, obviously.
If none of the above works, you can only do one of three things, as far as I can tell:
1) Completely ignore him. Eventually he will take his ball and play elsewhere, plus there's an off chance he'll ask what he did wrong.
2) Simply constantly agree with him, don't let him get into an argument (basically like woot said). Play dumb and be kind. He'll HATE that, but he won't be able to do anything without looking even more immature.
(I wouldn't recommend three but I've used it and it does work)
3) Ridicule him. Repeat his arguments with slight variations, or make them humorous. When he asks why you believe something, say "the aliens told me to," laugh, and change the subject. He'll get the message that you're sick of his garbage. I mean questions. One person I literally turned around on and walked off while they were in mid-sentence. I would rather some think I'm an idiot than have to put up with the pain of hearing them speak - this is not useful for everyone, but if you don't mind upsetting people, it works wonders. Get out your cellphone and start messing around with it when he talks.
One argumentative, incredibly socially abrasive friend did get the message and eventually mended his ways. All the other attempts to tell him had just led to blame throwing and more arguments.
posted by tweak at 1:08 PM on May 27, 2006
Someone suggested saying this:
"I'm not sure why you feel compelled to challenge everything we say. This is not a debate team. If you don't like us, just don't talk to us. No skin off our noses."
This is good advice. However, I have essentially tried something like this. Unfortunately, I said it to the most argumentative person I have met my entire life (in retrospect, at the time I was kind of in shock). She was completely oblivious to this line of reasoning, because I was ignorant and she kept trying to explain why I was wrong, she was right, and why she needed to keep repeating herself so that I would understand, obviously.
If none of the above works, you can only do one of three things, as far as I can tell:
1) Completely ignore him. Eventually he will take his ball and play elsewhere, plus there's an off chance he'll ask what he did wrong.
2) Simply constantly agree with him, don't let him get into an argument (basically like woot said). Play dumb and be kind. He'll HATE that, but he won't be able to do anything without looking even more immature.
(I wouldn't recommend three but I've used it and it does work)
3) Ridicule him. Repeat his arguments with slight variations, or make them humorous. When he asks why you believe something, say "the aliens told me to," laugh, and change the subject. He'll get the message that you're sick of his garbage. I mean questions. One person I literally turned around on and walked off while they were in mid-sentence. I would rather some think I'm an idiot than have to put up with the pain of hearing them speak - this is not useful for everyone, but if you don't mind upsetting people, it works wonders. Get out your cellphone and start messing around with it when he talks.
One argumentative, incredibly socially abrasive friend did get the message and eventually mended his ways. All the other attempts to tell him had just led to blame throwing and more arguments.
posted by tweak at 1:08 PM on May 27, 2006
He sounds a lot like me...I seem to be always like that; non talkative, not asking questions and I tend to argue a lot. People who know me say I'm a really nice guy though :-)
Maybe he's not like me, but you'll never know, just work with him, if he's shy like I am eventually he will open up a bit.
posted by Sonic_Molson at 1:09 PM on May 27, 2006
Maybe he's not like me, but you'll never know, just work with him, if he's shy like I am eventually he will open up a bit.
posted by Sonic_Molson at 1:09 PM on May 27, 2006
Maybe he's a racist, bigot, or in some other way automatically on prejudiced against you two. Do the conversations he includes your husband in have any common threads? Or maybe you smoke and he thinks you'll bail out on a payment.
Do your other friends notice this odd behavior? If so, maybe they can shed some light on this problem. If not, I agree with the abovers: wait until the next time he gets aggressive and just call him out. I would suggest not being overly agressive yourself and just asking "What's your problem?", because it's possible your pals might not agree on who the jerk is if you call him a condescending ass.
I just re-read what delmoi said. So, yeah, that.
posted by hoborg at 1:10 PM on May 27, 2006
Do your other friends notice this odd behavior? If so, maybe they can shed some light on this problem. If not, I agree with the abovers: wait until the next time he gets aggressive and just call him out. I would suggest not being overly agressive yourself and just asking "What's your problem?", because it's possible your pals might not agree on who the jerk is if you call him a condescending ass.
I just re-read what delmoi said. So, yeah, that.
posted by hoborg at 1:10 PM on May 27, 2006
Sounds like the dude's just an asshole.
Jerks like him back down and change once the hint of a beatdown are sent their way. All of a sudden they turn really nice and respectful.
posted by DieHipsterDie at 1:14 PM on May 27, 2006
Jerks like him back down and change once the hint of a beatdown are sent their way. All of a sudden they turn really nice and respectful.
posted by DieHipsterDie at 1:14 PM on May 27, 2006
The problem is your group of friends. They are weak and lack character. Healthy people wouldn't tolerate his behavior for ten minutes. Drop them and find someone worthwhile to hang out with.
Oh, and after you do, go out to dinner to celebrate your luck that this guy came along to show you the true nature of those you mistook for friends.
posted by jamjam at 1:22 PM on May 27, 2006
Oh, and after you do, go out to dinner to celebrate your luck that this guy came along to show you the true nature of those you mistook for friends.
posted by jamjam at 1:22 PM on May 27, 2006
If he makes a comment say something in a completely flat, relaxed tone of voice. Don't get angry or say anything more than you have to e.g.
'blah blah you blah salted popcorn'
'No.'
'I'm blah blah blah...'
'Are you?'
posted by lunkfish at 1:41 PM on May 27, 2006
'blah blah you blah salted popcorn'
'No.'
'I'm blah blah blah...'
'Are you?'
posted by lunkfish at 1:41 PM on May 27, 2006
He needs to grow up a little bit. Maybe he just doesn't connect with you two as much as the others and keeps hoping you'll just disappear at some point. Only children make errors in judgment like that. So first of all, be the grownup. Secondly, I suggest doing more than asking him questions about himself so as to get closer to him. Try inviting him to join you for a sidebar activity that doesn't involve the whole group. Even if he refuses the invitation, it will send a message that your're here, you're not going to put your tail between your legs and disappear, and that all his sniping doesn't even fluster you (although it clearly does). But that's what "being the grownup" means. Setting that aside. Sometimes it takes several tries to really connect with someone in a situation like this. And you can't accomplish it without some 1:1 direct time.
I hate to sound like I want you to coddle him. But there are plenty of "fuck that asshole" comments here and I'm trying to take into acount the sizable investment you have with the rest of the group. In any group of friends there's going to be someone you don't jibe with as well. You need to spend MORE time and love on that person than the others, not less.
posted by scarabic at 2:15 PM on May 27, 2006
I hate to sound like I want you to coddle him. But there are plenty of "fuck that asshole" comments here and I'm trying to take into acount the sizable investment you have with the rest of the group. In any group of friends there's going to be someone you don't jibe with as well. You need to spend MORE time and love on that person than the others, not less.
posted by scarabic at 2:15 PM on May 27, 2006
"why do you feel this need to control people?"
say it every time he starts in on you and don't respond to whatever he says next
alternatively, if you're good at verbal sparring and wit, you can squelch him ... but that takes a thick skin, quick reflexes, and the idea that such victories are worth the bother
posted by pyramid termite at 2:25 PM on May 27, 2006
say it every time he starts in on you and don't respond to whatever he says next
alternatively, if you're good at verbal sparring and wit, you can squelch him ... but that takes a thick skin, quick reflexes, and the idea that such victories are worth the bother
posted by pyramid termite at 2:25 PM on May 27, 2006
A college male acting like a college male shouldn't be surprising. You're obviously in very different positions in life, I don't see why you're so threatened. If I might say, single people don't really dwell on such things or have time to discuss and get paranoid about it as much as married people.
Sorry to go all anecodetal, but I was in a group of college-age people and then someone thought they were cool and mature and could bring in a married couple. It was weird and they didn't seem to understand gropu dynamics. I'm not excusing his behavior, but you're in a totally different place in life. Who knows in 4 years where these kids will end up, their lives are going to be drastically different -- yours probably not. In my experience college social networks (when groups of friends come together) tend to be very transient and people treat them as such. There's a very good chance that next semester you'll probably not hang out with a paticular group. The lack of stability inherently brings stability.
I've also encountered groups where one guy was just being an asshole but everyone seemed to respect him. It wasn't anything about "alpha-male" or "low self-esteem", I just didn't understand him. Perhaps you're being a bit closed minded?
I also don't see how public scoulding will accomplish anything. Way to look even more like the mother/father figure of the group -- not to mention the lameness if done in the ways described above is through the roof. Why don't you hang out with him one-on-two for dinner or going out to the bars. And are you sure youe husband is not perhaps a wee bit jealous or perhaps insecure himself? I would say it's only natural in a group of horny twenty-somethings in college or just out, not that it has any basis in reality per se.
posted by geoff. at 2:34 PM on May 27, 2006
Sorry to go all anecodetal, but I was in a group of college-age people and then someone thought they were cool and mature and could bring in a married couple. It was weird and they didn't seem to understand gropu dynamics. I'm not excusing his behavior, but you're in a totally different place in life. Who knows in 4 years where these kids will end up, their lives are going to be drastically different -- yours probably not. In my experience college social networks (when groups of friends come together) tend to be very transient and people treat them as such. There's a very good chance that next semester you'll probably not hang out with a paticular group. The lack of stability inherently brings stability.
I've also encountered groups where one guy was just being an asshole but everyone seemed to respect him. It wasn't anything about "alpha-male" or "low self-esteem", I just didn't understand him. Perhaps you're being a bit closed minded?
I also don't see how public scoulding will accomplish anything. Way to look even more like the mother/father figure of the group -- not to mention the lameness if done in the ways described above is through the roof. Why don't you hang out with him one-on-two for dinner or going out to the bars. And are you sure youe husband is not perhaps a wee bit jealous or perhaps insecure himself? I would say it's only natural in a group of horny twenty-somethings in college or just out, not that it has any basis in reality per se.
posted by geoff. at 2:34 PM on May 27, 2006
To my husband in particular he is arrogant, rude, and always asks my husband to justify things or decisions to him when there is no reason to at all. To sum it up, he always needs to argue, come across as the smartest one, and he downplays any input or opinions my husband or I have every time we say anything.
Are you absolutely sure this interpretation of his behavior is accurate? Is it possible he's just a curious guy with stunted social skills? I know several people who could be described in various shades of the above (myself included), but I also know we are all actually nice people who just sometimes get in over our heads in social situations.
I can't count how many times I've been told that the way to get over my shyness is to ask questions of the others in the group, and then when I do ask questions, I am accused of arguing or debating everything. Some of us have a harder time reading other folks' reactions to us. Maybe that's what's happening with this guy? If he is like me, he would appreciate a good friend taking him aside and telling him frankly how he comes off to other people. Is that possible in your situation?
If he really is just a rude asshole, I have no advice except to weigh how much you enjoy spending time with this group of friends versus how much this guy annoys you, and make your decision accordingly.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 2:35 PM on May 27, 2006
Are you absolutely sure this interpretation of his behavior is accurate? Is it possible he's just a curious guy with stunted social skills? I know several people who could be described in various shades of the above (myself included), but I also know we are all actually nice people who just sometimes get in over our heads in social situations.
I can't count how many times I've been told that the way to get over my shyness is to ask questions of the others in the group, and then when I do ask questions, I am accused of arguing or debating everything. Some of us have a harder time reading other folks' reactions to us. Maybe that's what's happening with this guy? If he is like me, he would appreciate a good friend taking him aside and telling him frankly how he comes off to other people. Is that possible in your situation?
If he really is just a rude asshole, I have no advice except to weigh how much you enjoy spending time with this group of friends versus how much this guy annoys you, and make your decision accordingly.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 2:35 PM on May 27, 2006
Stupid "post comment", lack of stability breeds volatility.
posted by geoff. at 2:36 PM on May 27, 2006
posted by geoff. at 2:36 PM on May 27, 2006
male, early twenties, and in college
Do we really need to say anything more? He's a young jerk that hasn't gained any worldly experience. Ignore him.
posted by frogan at 4:15 PM on May 27, 2006
Do we really need to say anything more? He's a young jerk that hasn't gained any worldly experience. Ignore him.
posted by frogan at 4:15 PM on May 27, 2006
are you the only married couple in the group? a lot of times single guys - especially the sort of guy who's elitist, smart, argumentative, etc feel they have no use for married people. they aren't going to be hooking up with the wife, or going out painting the town with the guy. A lot of single people are intimidated by married couples.
posted by starr226 at 4:31 PM on May 27, 2006
posted by starr226 at 4:31 PM on May 27, 2006
When trying to figure out a social problem concerning oneself, always start by taking yourself down a peg or two. Assume that you are less attractive, less intelligent, less witty, and less interesting than you normally imagine you are. And assume that friends will not tell you the truth if the truth would offend you.
Now, could it be that your husband says some pretty silly stuff that practically demands a little light mockery? That he asserts stuff that just has to be debated? Could it be that the guy who annoys you is the only person in the group willing to call your husband on his silly remarks, maybe exactly because you are not as close to this guy as you are to the others?
Or could it be that he really is "just being a sarcastic, witty guy" and expecting something similar in response, but that you're being a little thick-skulled or thin-skinned about it? If he says something like, "Oh, there always has to be one difficult guy who won't let the rest of us enjoy salt on our popcorn," maybe he's just kidding. I know you said you aren’t "overly sensitive people," but you could be wrong -- how many people think that they are overly sensitive people? And yet the world is full of such people, all overly sensitive to everything but their overly sensitivity.
If everyone else in the group is cool with the way he behaves, you have to wonder whether your husband's a deserving target (of mere jests, perhaps). Or, if that's impossible, you have to wonder whether the whole group is bad.
posted by pracowity at 4:40 PM on May 27, 2006
Now, could it be that your husband says some pretty silly stuff that practically demands a little light mockery? That he asserts stuff that just has to be debated? Could it be that the guy who annoys you is the only person in the group willing to call your husband on his silly remarks, maybe exactly because you are not as close to this guy as you are to the others?
Or could it be that he really is "just being a sarcastic, witty guy" and expecting something similar in response, but that you're being a little thick-skulled or thin-skinned about it? If he says something like, "Oh, there always has to be one difficult guy who won't let the rest of us enjoy salt on our popcorn," maybe he's just kidding. I know you said you aren’t "overly sensitive people," but you could be wrong -- how many people think that they are overly sensitive people? And yet the world is full of such people, all overly sensitive to everything but their overly sensitivity.
If everyone else in the group is cool with the way he behaves, you have to wonder whether your husband's a deserving target (of mere jests, perhaps). Or, if that's impossible, you have to wonder whether the whole group is bad.
posted by pracowity at 4:40 PM on May 27, 2006
There's a guy I just can't stand who does this. He sits next to a colleague at work, and I can't talk to to the colleague without the asshole guy joining in.
I just completely ignore him. Or rather, when he speaks, I roll my eyes, make a face like someone farted, pause just long enough for it to be noticed then continue the conversation with the colleague.
If every time this guy challenges you or your husband there's a brief, embarrassed pause, maybe he'll stop doing it, or at least the other people will actually start noticing how often he does it. It's passive-aggressive but it's better than nothing.
Also you could start asking your friends "Is [asshole] coming?" every time you're arranging social events.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 4:53 PM on May 27, 2006
I just completely ignore him. Or rather, when he speaks, I roll my eyes, make a face like someone farted, pause just long enough for it to be noticed then continue the conversation with the colleague.
If every time this guy challenges you or your husband there's a brief, embarrassed pause, maybe he'll stop doing it, or at least the other people will actually start noticing how often he does it. It's passive-aggressive but it's better than nothing.
Also you could start asking your friends "Is [asshole] coming?" every time you're arranging social events.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 4:53 PM on May 27, 2006
He's a classic bully. Lots of advice if you google. Be as reasonable as you can, avoid the bully, don't engage. When the bully is rude or challenging respond in a polite manner, and act a bit puzzled by his rudeness.
posted by theora55 at 5:23 PM on May 27, 2006
posted by theora55 at 5:23 PM on May 27, 2006
Saying "What the FUCK is wrong with you, asshole?" can be enormously satisfying, but then the moment passes. Chances are, Asshole would a) be delighted with his success, and b) use the remark as an excuse to escalate the attacks.
Better, I think, to follow the suggestions from woot and lunkfish. Respond to everything he says with jolly amusement or blank detachment. Better yet, randomly switch back and forth between the two so he never knows what to expect. But do not display anger, hurt, or bewilderment; that's blood in the water to Dickwadicus snarkonium.
It is a little weird that no one else in your circle seems to notice what's going on. Is there a person or couple you're especially close to? If so, discuss the situation privately and ask for total honesty; there may be something -- on his end or yours -- that you haven't registered. I'm not saying you and your husband are "asking for it" -- just acknowledging the Rashamonian nature of human interactions, and your incomplete information.
It's entirely possible that all this will be resolved, through your efforts, some awakening on his part, or just the passage of time. But if it continues, consider pulling back a bit and socializing with a subset of the group.
This is such an ugly, demoralizing dynamic -- takes you right back to fourth grade, when you had the totally and hopelessly wrong lunchbox. But you're not ten years old anymore. You have much more control over your own actions and responses. And lunchboxes.
posted by vetiver at 6:13 PM on May 27, 2006
Better, I think, to follow the suggestions from woot and lunkfish. Respond to everything he says with jolly amusement or blank detachment. Better yet, randomly switch back and forth between the two so he never knows what to expect. But do not display anger, hurt, or bewilderment; that's blood in the water to Dickwadicus snarkonium.
It is a little weird that no one else in your circle seems to notice what's going on. Is there a person or couple you're especially close to? If so, discuss the situation privately and ask for total honesty; there may be something -- on his end or yours -- that you haven't registered. I'm not saying you and your husband are "asking for it" -- just acknowledging the Rashamonian nature of human interactions, and your incomplete information.
It's entirely possible that all this will be resolved, through your efforts, some awakening on his part, or just the passage of time. But if it continues, consider pulling back a bit and socializing with a subset of the group.
This is such an ugly, demoralizing dynamic -- takes you right back to fourth grade, when you had the totally and hopelessly wrong lunchbox. But you're not ten years old anymore. You have much more control over your own actions and responses. And lunchboxes.
posted by vetiver at 6:13 PM on May 27, 2006
Wow, Geoff's really bending over backwards to make excuses for this kid. Makes me wonder if Geoff is kind of like the guy in question.
Geoff, I don't think these people are old, boring fuddy-duddies you seem to think they are, just because they don't want to be on the receiving end of this guy's attacks every time they are in this guy's presence. There's such a thing as common courtesy, even among people in college.
No matter who you are or what stage of life you're in, these ridiculous challenges are immature, rude, and offensive and ought to be met head-on.
posted by jayder at 6:16 PM on May 27, 2006
Geoff, I don't think these people are old, boring fuddy-duddies you seem to think they are, just because they don't want to be on the receiving end of this guy's attacks every time they are in this guy's presence. There's such a thing as common courtesy, even among people in college.
No matter who you are or what stage of life you're in, these ridiculous challenges are immature, rude, and offensive and ought to be met head-on.
posted by jayder at 6:16 PM on May 27, 2006
Sometimes, when I find someone to be boring (and I don't mean, that they are having a boring conversation, but that they are consistently uninteresting every time I see them), I act like a jerk. I don't mean to be, but sometimes I need to catch myself being an asshole before I can change it.
Perhaps he dislikes you, and feels a bit of resentment that he has to share his time with you, just to hang out with your mutual friends.
Maybe he's not ignoring you, but he doesn't value your imput, or think that you share a common ground.
Maybe, because of the difference in your ages, he doesn't understand you. Maybe he's jealous of what you've accomplished, maybe he pities what you haven't.
Maybe he is attracted to one of you.
There are a number of people that I feel like I don't need in my life, that my friends bring around me because they enjoy both our company, and I tend to act dismissive. Sometimes it's mutual, sometimes it isn't. It's usually after a number of failed conversations that I will throw my hands up in defeat. I try not to be rude, but I'm kind of a jerk and sometimes that's how I enjoy myself around people I don't like/respect.
If he's anything like me, when I fall out of civility. He might enjoy being told he's being an asshole, and he might take it to heart.
But maybe he's just an insufferable prick. He certainly doesn't sound pleasant.
posted by elr at 12:13 AM on May 28, 2006
Perhaps he dislikes you, and feels a bit of resentment that he has to share his time with you, just to hang out with your mutual friends.
Maybe he's not ignoring you, but he doesn't value your imput, or think that you share a common ground.
Maybe, because of the difference in your ages, he doesn't understand you. Maybe he's jealous of what you've accomplished, maybe he pities what you haven't.
Maybe he is attracted to one of you.
There are a number of people that I feel like I don't need in my life, that my friends bring around me because they enjoy both our company, and I tend to act dismissive. Sometimes it's mutual, sometimes it isn't. It's usually after a number of failed conversations that I will throw my hands up in defeat. I try not to be rude, but I'm kind of a jerk and sometimes that's how I enjoy myself around people I don't like/respect.
If he's anything like me, when I fall out of civility. He might enjoy being told he's being an asshole, and he might take it to heart.
But maybe he's just an insufferable prick. He certainly doesn't sound pleasant.
posted by elr at 12:13 AM on May 28, 2006
For reference above: I am occasionally the "cool" guy, I'm extremely argumentative, and I have terrible self esteem so I really took this question and it's responses to heart.
posted by elr at 12:16 AM on May 28, 2006
posted by elr at 12:16 AM on May 28, 2006
He's in college, so I'm sure his teachers have explained to him how the world works, and he's only happy to share. If he doesn't get a great job immediately, or start the next eBay, that will soon be squashed out of him.
Perhaps your niceness to him has been too bland and purposeful to be believed, and he views your condescension as an insult.
posted by evil holiday magic at 2:29 AM on May 28, 2006
Perhaps your niceness to him has been too bland and purposeful to be believed, and he views your condescension as an insult.
posted by evil holiday magic at 2:29 AM on May 28, 2006
You know what, maybe the asker and husband are totally misreding him, and he really is that cool and clever, or maybe he's just a well meaning insecure clueless guy acting out some overcompensation, and who knows what horrible tragedies he's gone through; but, like jayder said, some common courtesy would still apply, especially if there isn't such a matey-matey level of familiarity to begin with.
All we have is the asker's point of view, and to them he is being an annoying jerk, spoiling their enjoyment of their common friends' company, so how about taking that in good faith?
posted by funambulist at 4:14 AM on May 28, 2006
All we have is the asker's point of view, and to them he is being an annoying jerk, spoiling their enjoyment of their common friends' company, so how about taking that in good faith?
posted by funambulist at 4:14 AM on May 28, 2006
finding ways to deal with this is great, but honestly, i've tried everything and my best solution has been to remove these sortof people from my life.
i'm a big fan of occaisonally fucking with people or fun debate, but it should end with some affirmation like a big smile and a cold beer. some people dont have the social skills to know when the are making the social gathering more stressful instead of enjoyable.
i agree that confronting him is worth a shot, but if he turns out to be a big baby drama queen motherfucker, then tell your friends you dont want him around anymore. life's too short to let someone stress you out that your not forced to deal with.
posted by yeahyeahyeahwhoo at 7:03 AM on May 28, 2006
i'm a big fan of occaisonally fucking with people or fun debate, but it should end with some affirmation like a big smile and a cold beer. some people dont have the social skills to know when the are making the social gathering more stressful instead of enjoyable.
i agree that confronting him is worth a shot, but if he turns out to be a big baby drama queen motherfucker, then tell your friends you dont want him around anymore. life's too short to let someone stress you out that your not forced to deal with.
posted by yeahyeahyeahwhoo at 7:03 AM on May 28, 2006
One woman drives me crazy. I watch her ignore my other friends' feelings and feel protective of them. I asked these other people why they like her. I was really curious. What is it that makes them able to stand enjoy being around her? I found out a) there's another person I didn't know about who actively avoids social events when she'll be there, b) that my friends are really aware of her shortcomings, c) that they admire her for other things, including that d) she's overcome a tough past. So, she grates on me still, but now I can at least partially see her through their (rather more loving) eyes. It really helped that my other friends could understand my annoyance, and now I feel less alienated from them for bringing her around. YMMV.
posted by salvia at 12:09 PM on May 28, 2006
posted by salvia at 12:09 PM on May 28, 2006
I've been there. Don't let this guy make you meek. He may be a true jerk, or he may just be so immature that he thinks this is funny and cool. (And will hopefully grow out of this crap.)
I usually go with the quizzical WTF look, as if he just said spit out a complete nutso non sequitur, before going back to ignoring him and continuing the conversation. Alternate with verbally pointing out that you have no idea what he's talking about. Lather, rinse, repeat. Some eye-rolling may come in handy as you point out that this is tiresome and change the subject.
In case you want to fight dirty: Do you have a natural reserve of seriously sarcastic snark? Quick-witted replies of escalating meanness delivered in a calm voice without waiting for a reaction can be shockingly emasculating.
posted by desuetude at 1:49 PM on May 28, 2006
I usually go with the quizzical WTF look, as if he just said spit out a complete nutso non sequitur, before going back to ignoring him and continuing the conversation. Alternate with verbally pointing out that you have no idea what he's talking about. Lather, rinse, repeat. Some eye-rolling may come in handy as you point out that this is tiresome and change the subject.
In case you want to fight dirty: Do you have a natural reserve of seriously sarcastic snark? Quick-witted replies of escalating meanness delivered in a calm voice without waiting for a reaction can be shockingly emasculating.
posted by desuetude at 1:49 PM on May 28, 2006
I'm coming in too late here, but I find interesting the ratio of agressive vs. compassionate responses. salvia, pracowity, and geoff deserve some recognition for their ability to see the situation from multiple perspectives.
Some people do respond better to being confronted, but since you've already said that you'd rather not directly confront him for fear of losing the verbal battle, it seems your best choice is considering that maybe you do deserve his scorn. You've nothing to lose but your own ego.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 6:16 AM on May 29, 2006
Some people do respond better to being confronted, but since you've already said that you'd rather not directly confront him for fear of losing the verbal battle, it seems your best choice is considering that maybe you do deserve his scorn. You've nothing to lose but your own ego.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 6:16 AM on May 29, 2006
Give him a tape measure, point him to the bathroom, and tell him to report back.
posted by jon_kill at 6:20 AM on May 29, 2006
posted by jon_kill at 6:20 AM on May 29, 2006
Jayder, I have no idea what the attack is for -- I'm not excusing the behavior but I think being as asshole to an asshole is somewhat counter-productive. In fact I would say it's equally as bad, that's why I don't like a lot of the responses. Of course everyone has been in a group where they don't like a person and can't understand why everyone else seems to "put up with it." It's easier to be a bully back or to make "let's not see him anymore" ultimatums, and far harder (and I believe a better moral choice) to learn to accept instead of being exclusionary. Unless the person is clearly anti-social (which could be the case, instead we seem to have one side of an obviously multi-faceted social situation -- there's nothing clear beyond her and her husband.) I find the real asshole is the one who actively excludes or tries to pressure someone out of a group or get the rest of the group to gang up on them, which is what would be accomplished with a lot of the responses. They're complaining about someone which by their own admisison they know little about. Is it not better to at least get to know him better, if he's hanging with multiple members on the own time he can't be that much of a social pariah.
posted by geoff. at 10:46 AM on May 29, 2006
posted by geoff. at 10:46 AM on May 29, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by lemur at 11:32 AM on May 27, 2006