Too sexy for sex?

May 25, 2006 3:07 AM

Olderwomenwholikeyoubutwon'thavesexwithyoufilter: There it is. 75% of the women I've dated in the last 8 months (and ALL of them have been older than me) have a strange issue, in that we can make out all night to the point of being naked, kissing, touching, but that final step of actively engaging an orgasm seems to be too much for them. So... what the... ?

Is it me? Is it them? I'm confused and frustrated and just plain WTF'd.

I'm 22. I'm (I hope, and the results seem to bear it) reasonably attractive in words, deeds, morals, thoughts, and body, and I've met and been engaged with some amazing women. They like me, I like them, we have fun for a few dates, things start to get physical, and often continue "physically", but they don't go all the way physically. I'm a teacher, a foreigner in this particular country (China)(but I do speak the language), well groomed, and well... I seem to have a talent for attracting women in their mid-late 20's (mostly)/early 30's (some late 30's, okay, but I think once you're past 30 you're pretty well set on where you're going in life so I don't think it makes a big difference). I get plenty of women my own age who are interested, but I don't feel the spark I feel with someone who is secure, intelligent, fun, devoted to something, and able to include themselves and their lives in their sense of humor. They like me for varying reasons. I've been told I'm cute, I'm funny/witty, I'm sexy, I'm carefree, I'm wise, I care a lot about things they care about, whatever. Women can be attracted to all sorts of things, and maybe they're true, maybe not, but I can accept attraction and be attracted to the same variety of things. And we have fun, then we go home, and then we kiss, make out, clothes come off, and then things start happening, and then all of a sudden my hand is being pulled away from somewhere and I'm told I should go to sleep so we can wake up and be ready for tomorrow. Only 3 times in the last 8 months has this not happened (before I was in a year-long relationship with someone my own age).

What is going on!?!?! A classy, sexy 25-year old who I know through work (she's my boss & the owner of this company) has initiated a relationship that I'm happy to get into, has invited me into her bed, and finds me and curls up with me when she's bored, won't do the nasty with me. (Yes I know, company ink, etc, we've worked all that out, small company and we were friends beforehand.) This is the last straw, dammit. I could very, very easily let this turn into something long-term, and I've stopped entertaining other potential dates for the moment. I just don't get it. Is it my age, like some of them say? Might there something about me? Is it something about them? Do I just have a talent for finding women with hangups? This particular relationship is one I don't want to lose. I've had "the talk" with her, and she says she needs it quiet and serious for anything beyond unenthused kissing. She's also very worried about me being younger, as she's only dated men older than her up to now. So what next? I can't take another frustrated orgasm, because I will literally explode. HELP!

posted by saysthis to human relations (37 comments total)

Could it be that they want to get it on, but also consider it important to be a virgin when they marry?

I'm not sayin' that *is* it but it might be something to consider.

Why not ask?
posted by t0astie at 3:40 AM on May 25, 2006

Are these Chinese or Western women?
posted by grouse at 4:47 AM on May 25, 2006

I've met and been engaged with some amazing women

Can you clarify your usage of "engaged" here?
posted by yerfatma at 5:00 AM on May 25, 2006

As a sidenote...

"I think once you're past 30 you're pretty well set on where you're going in life so I don't think it makes a big difference"

SOOOO not necessarily true!!
posted by echo0720 at 5:08 AM on May 25, 2006

Ooh yes, if these are Chinese women, there's your problem. I have a few (american) friends in China who had girlfriends for months and never had sex with them - there's a huge stigma attached to having sex before marriage, especially in smaller towns. The Chinese love gossip, and if it got out that a woman had sex with a foreigner she wasn't married to her life would pretty much be ruined. I think the age thing is an excuse, personally.
posted by borkingchikapa at 5:33 AM on May 25, 2006

For God's sake, why are you making this about "older" women? They're Chinese. Learn something about the culture you're immersed in, why don't you? I spent a year teaching college in Taiwan, and I'd never have assumed that the women who were attracted to me would just hop into bed with me.
posted by languagehat at 5:48 AM on May 25, 2006

Move to Japan.
posted by dydecker at 7:12 AM on May 25, 2006

It's interesting that this has a very clear cultural explanation, but none of the poster's lovers have ever provided that answer.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 7:33 AM on May 25, 2006

According to the original post, the poster has been naked in bed with 12 women in the past 8 months. 3 of them have had sex with him.

Perhaps the other 9 are actually looking for a loving boyfriend, and think that you'll just move on if you fuck them.... which is probably a totally correct observation.

Good on them.
posted by I Love Tacos at 7:43 AM on May 25, 2006 [1 favorite has favorites]

I agree completely with 'I Love Tacos'. Maybe if they didn't know you were so...popular, they would be more willing to commit?
posted by reformedjerk at 7:55 AM on May 25, 2006

I Love Tacos might be on to something there.
posted by agregoli at 8:03 AM on May 25, 2006

I can't take another frustrated orgasm, because I will literally explode. HELP!

Explode. Perhaps you should go ahead and do that on your own time. But really, you're not going to die of blue balls.

I don't know how witty, classy, and overall wonderful you seem in real life, but in this post you come off as a bit condescending (that final step of actively engaging an orgasm seems to be too much for them?) and a bit naive. Your current lady has told you that she needs to be in a serious relationship before she's willing to go any further physically. What's the confusion?
posted by desuetude at 8:15 AM on May 25, 2006

Second languagehat and I Love Tacos.

To quote the Spartan cheerleaders from Saturday Night Live: Sex can wait. Masturbate!
posted by jeversol at 8:31 AM on May 25, 2006

It is not a cultural thing.

As in most countries, it would depend on the individuals involved, the type of relationship (and the stage it is in) and what each of you want (and expect) out of it.

Deciding to have sex is a big responsibility for both parties.

Since no contraceptive is 100% effective, there is always the chance (however slight) that a baby will be born. If that happens, are you prepared (emotionally and financially) to be a good husband and father? I know that I would not have been at your age (but, then again, I tend to be a slow learner).

And even if you have wisdom beyond your years, an amazing income and confidence in your ability to raise a family should the responsibility arise, does your partner share this confidence? Do her parents?

Remember that it would be your partner who would be taking most of the risk in bed. Having a baby out of wedlock (or having a failed marriage) would wreak havoc on her relationship with her family, their reputation in the community and her chances of ever getting married again.

You also mentioned that she runs her own business. An unplanned pregnancy could affect both her short and long term business goals.

If she wants to take her time (to get to know you better, emotionally prepare herself, discuss your relationship with her parents, follow her life plan or whatever), wouldn't it be better for everyone involved to respect that?

After all, intercourse is not the only way to 'make the clouds release their rain' and, contrary to popular belief, God does not kill a kitten...
posted by cup at 8:52 AM on May 25, 2006

Sheesh.

I Love Tacos & co., a good portion were, well, not that interested in a relationship. Some are, some aren't. This cuts across all the "relationship" demographics, and at the moment I'm intentionally unpopular, because this one is interested in a loving relationship, and I am too. I promise you it's not that.

And to the posters who are saying that they're "Chinese", don't be so quick to generalize. There is absolutely no way to say what I'm about to say without sounding culturally insensitive/classist/racist/sexist: I date the women I find interesting, and usually that means no "traditional" women. And didn't you read about the sexual revolution that's been going on in China for 20+ years now? It's working! There are several segments of this society that are just as liberal or more so than anything you're used to. Those are the parts I tend to stick to, and the women I date tend to come from those classes. I screen out the traditionals as dating partners, usually, because as one of my favorite women from Beijing told me "nobody wants a 30-year old girlfriend who lives with her parents and has to consult them about staying over at your house, or who believes her proper place in life is to marry, wait for a house, settle in, and gossip about the neighbors." She's openly lesbian, 28, and works in advertising. I date upper-middle class professionals and grad students, usually, just because that's where the IQ points I like tend to end up. Independent, educated, brave women with (usually) more sexual history, money, life experience, and intelligence than I have. I'm usually the one asked out. They've been Chinese, Chinese-American, American-Chinese, some have gone to Harvard... My point is they're a very international, modern, open-minded group who just happen to live here like I do. If it is culture, is something a lot more subtle and post-modern than being a virgin before marriage or what have you.
posted by saysthis at 9:02 AM on May 25, 2006

Big Fat Tycoon, I'm with you. This is gross. It's not about cultural interpretations at all, it's about my dating life. Thanks for the well-intentioned posts, and I'm sorry. I think I'll just delete it.
posted by saysthis at 9:09 AM on May 25, 2006

And I can't delete it. Never mind.
posted by saysthis at 9:13 AM on May 25, 2006

saysthis, you can't kick Metafilter out of your apartment until you've made it breakfast.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 9:21 AM on May 25, 2006

some have gone to Harvard

Harvard is not exactly known as a hotbed of... hot beds.

You don't mention how long you've been dating these women? Your post makes you sound enthusiastic but really kind of overeager -- just the writing style, I mean -- and I can't help but come away with an image of a guy trying too hard, too early. If you're running into the same problem again and again, maybe you should just slow way down here?

No, slower.

I realize you may think you're not projecting the 22-year-old out-of-control lustball image you've presented here to the women you're dating, but older women are quite possibly recognize it anyway, having already been subjected to it by their peers. It doesn't tend to win the guy any points.
posted by occhiblu at 9:23 AM on May 25, 2006

Wait, seriously, on rereading: In the past eight months, you've slept with three women, made out with enough that you feel their sexual rejections constitute a pattern, and started a "serious" relationship? Dude, SLOW DOWN.

I have no problem with people sleeping around, but your expectations seem to be out of whack here. I can't imagine sleeping with a guy who I haven't known for at least a month or two -- and you know, I went to Harvard, so apparently I fit your sample population. And as someone in my late 20s, I'm a hell of a lot less likely to bedhop than I was I might have been (or then my friends were) in college.

You sound like you came directly out of university and expect the real world to function in that same soap-opera way. For the most part, it doesn't.
posted by occhiblu at 9:29 AM on May 25, 2006

Who's "Too sexy for sex"? You, or these women?

Also, do you mean they won't have ANY orgasm, or they won't let you poke 'em?
posted by Sprout the Vulgarian at 9:30 AM on May 25, 2006

I realize you may think you're not projecting the 22-year-old out-of-control lustball image

I just thought that was worth highlighting because you totally, totally are.

Ah, 22. Memories.
posted by nanojath at 9:41 AM on May 25, 2006

There's some good advice here.
posted by funambulist at 9:57 AM on May 25, 2006 [1 favorite has favorites]

...and to pre-empt potential bitchiness at silly joke with no constructive advice, my point is there is no constructive advice to be given here other than 'deal' - exactly what else do you want to do, or what exactly do you expect people suggest you do?

Those women made it clear they're not willing to take it any further. Deal with it. Flag and move on. Fish, sea, etc.

You want to know why they're not willing? Who else can know but them and you? Maybe it's a cultural thing, maybe it's them, maybe it's you, if you can't understand that yourself, or ask them, no one can do it for you. If you ask them and don't like the answer, see point 1.

You want to know what else you can do to relieve your urge for an orgasm? I'm sure you can figure out for yourself what your other options are there.
posted by funambulist at 10:08 AM on May 25, 2006

Spot on, funambulist.
posted by redsnare at 10:22 AM on May 25, 2006

We can know, funambulist. It's because of that wart. You know the one. Seriously, Dude, get that looked at. It's skeeving us out.

- Chinese, Chinese-American and American-Chinese women, some of whom have gone to Harvard.
posted by The Bellman at 11:53 AM on May 25, 2006

You probably need to be more forceful and direct. Like most guys, you seem to have this very-American idea that sex is something that women 'have' and men must 'get' from them. This is dumb. It leads to all sorts of bad things the worst of which is this all too common whiny/deferential attitude that insists women "owe" you something. Drop this attitude and try growing up and being a real man. Try treating women like equals and sex as something to shared between equals. The whole Jesus-is-this-really-it-will-I-make-it-to-homebase hoping strategy needs to go. Hope is not a plan.

This is the "secret": if you want something then ask for it. If you want to sleep with a woman then look her in the eye and tell her you want to sleep with her. If you can, throw in the ol' what, how and why. They like that. The same goes for relationships. If you want her to be a part of life then tell her you want her to be a part of your life. Yes, this takes courage but it's also much more effective. Fortune favors the bold. Women seem to respond much better to strong guys who know what they want and aren't afraid to come out and ask for it.
posted by nixerman at 12:26 PM on May 25, 2006 [1 favorite has favorites]

saysthis, you're young. relax. stop overthinking it. stop counting the number of girls you have gotten naked in your bed. try dating some girls your own age. masturbate often. also, if in RL you talk about yourself as much as you did in here, and in such wonderful terms, stop it. that's the last thing any girls wants, even if she's just looking for a lay.
posted by poppo at 12:30 PM on May 25, 2006

I too seem to be in your demographic (went to Harvard, thirities) and based on what you have posted here, I have to agree with occhiblu. I can't imagine sleeping with a guy I didn't know for a while, and as I have gotten older and am able to look back at those one night stands, I generally view having sex with someone I didn't know very well as an excercise in bad judgement.

The women you have been dating may feel the same way - and may be putting brakes on because they don't need to learn that that behavior is a mistake. The other thing is that if I was dating a 22 year old, I would be quite concerned about his maturity (for example: decisions on what to do in the event of an unplanned pregnancy changes alot between your early twenties and your late twenties and thirties) and if I got any sense that he was a player looking to score, I would limit myself to the bare minimum, as it were, until or unless I came to believe that he was reliable and responsible.
posted by zia at 1:03 PM on May 25, 2006 [1 favorite has favorites]

Dude. I'm extremely liberal. Pansexual - I like people, not genders. And I'm still a virgin by choice.

"Waiting till marriage" and "liberal" are not mutually exclusive concepts.

You don't have much of an understanding of Asian culture. Your friend may be a maverick. Even with the most liberal of people, there is still an underlying sense of tradition and culture. It's just a part of life.

I'm South Asian.
posted by divabat at 6:03 PM on May 25, 2006

Are you volunteering to use protection? Once upon a time when I was young and stupid I remember not understanding why this one particular woman would do literally everything with me this one night except allow penetration. It occured to me a long time later that I was simply assuming she was using the pill (not entirely without evidence, but still). Who knows? She might have actually thrown caution to the winds if I'd volunteered to protect her from pregnancy and any potential STD. Man I was dumb.
posted by scarabic at 7:51 PM on May 25, 2006

I could very, very easily let this turn into something long-term

And yet you can't just have a conversation with her (you know, her, the person engaging in the behavior you find confusing) about it and find out that way what's going on?

I realize there's a lot of people who think they can't just ask a question and have a dialog with a significant other about things in the relationship but... how many of them have a good relationship?
posted by phearlez at 10:55 AM on May 26, 2006

I don't know what you're overcompensating for, but these women clearly seem to.
posted by Space Coyote at 5:41 PM on May 26, 2006

Is it my age, like some of them say?

Yes.

Might there something about me?

Yes.

Is it something about them?

Yes.

Do I just have a talent for finding women with hangups?

Well, yes, because you think not wanting to have sex with you is a hangup.

You've grouped all these women into the category of "women who won't have intercourse with me" so of course this looks to you like some kind of trend.

I wonder if the issue here is that you're still a virgin and starting to get panicky about it. Are you? Is that what's making you view (or at least portray) these women as vessels for your frustrated orgasms?
posted by woot at 7:21 AM on May 29, 2006

Yikes.

I screwed up on this post. Thanks to everyone who meant well, but I'm just not sure it's easy to get good advice on a topic like this. It's almost always too personal. I know it was too personal to me to be calm enough at the time I posted to phrase the question so I didn't sound like a desperate misogynistic man-child fuckarounder. I swear to god I'm not.

Woot, I'm not a virgin, and I'm not panicky about not having sex. I've been told in so many words by most of them that they want to have intercourse with me. That's why this is confusing.

Phearlez (and everyone else who's suggested I try to talk to them and find out why), be "a man" about it, of course I've talked about this. I try to all the time. It's precisely because I don't get clear answers that I resort to asking the internet. Maybe this isn't a good relationship. A lot of people say I should slow down, maybe I should. But I think I'm going pretty slow already. I've spent six weeks in this thing when I could have been out "boning sluts" or whatever. That's the thing, how am I really supposed to know what's going on in anybody's head if I don't put in the months to get to know someone? If I wanted sex, I could have had it with plenty of other people during this six weeks, and asking for it is hardly a problem. Sex or its absence is a non-issue except for the fact that yeah, I've started to see it as a pattern.

As for culture, the only difference I've noticed is less of a willingness to talk about it, which is part of why this is more frustrating than it should be. Chinese seem to be a lot more willing to cold-shoulder you than Westerners. An angry/sad/uncomfortable Chinese woman isn't a bitch on wheels, she's an armadillo. You know she's upset about something else if she still acknowledges your hello's and questions with more than three words. If it's you, you're getting one glance. Just one.

Try masturbating? Masturbate more/often? I'm 22...we do that at this age.


I realize you may think you're not projecting the 22-year-old out-of-control lustball image you've presented here to the women you're dating, but older women are quite possibly recognize it anyway, having already been subjected to it by their peers. It doesn't tend to win the guy any points.

When I read that, it clicked. Thank you.

In conclusion, the problem's been solved. It finally came out after a week-long Chinese-style "drip talk", and I know why, this time. Before, it probably was the lustball complex. I'll watch that from now on. Thanks again for all the posts.
posted by saysthis at 2:33 AM on May 31, 2006

Glad it worked out, saythis.
posted by occhiblu at 8:56 AM on May 31, 2006

Likewise, glad it worked out Also, six weeks is nothing. Try 3 months. Or six months.
posted by zia at 3:28 PM on June 2, 2006