Long-Distance Pressure
August 19, 2019 5:26 AM Subscribe
I’ve spent the past 9 months in a long-distance relationship that has been really lovely, full of a lot of compatibility and ease and trust. But it’s unclear how/if we’ll ever be not long-distance in the future, and bringing it up makes my boyfriend feel pressured. I’m not sure what to think/do.
We live ~1000 miles away from each other and met in my Town; he pursued me pretty doggedly after he returned to City, and would occasionally talk in vague ways about moving to Town. (He's lived in City pretty much his entire adult life.) I told him early on that my goal was to be in a relationship that involves a shared domestic life, and he said he wanted the same thing. It felt too early to be making any concrete, life-uprooting plans, but it felt good to know that we were more or less thinking in the same direction.
After the 6-month mark, though, that talk mostly stopped. He was just as sweet and present and devoted-seeming when we managed to be together — usually less than a week a month — but he would clam up when I mentioned anything about, e.g., job opportunities in his line of work in Town, or whatever. Eventually I asked him where his head was at; he said he “didn’t see a path” to moving to where I am, and left it at that. It was a really sad conversation, and we took a couple weeks off from talking.
When we resumed our conversations, I told him I was open to alternative arrangements — what if we both spent six months in Town & six months in City? or some other permutation?— and he seemed to find that interesting. (Both our work is possible to do in either place, although with varying degrees of difficulty.) As he sees it, though, the real source of relationship strain was pressure — namely, me putting pressure on him — and that we need to just let things evolve organically and see what happens.
I know that I have a tendency to want to assuage my anxiety through controlling and planning. One of the things that I love about him is his slower, more deliberate pace. When he makes his mind up to do something, he’s loyal & committed. I also know that 9 months (all of it long distance!) is quite early for either of us to be planning major life changes. Sometimes I think I should just chill out and let him lead the way and not bring up any of this future-oriented stuff for another 6 months or something. But I also get worried that I’m being strung along, and that the way it is now suits him just fine, that he will never change, and that I’ll spend another 6 months getting more attached to him and ultimately be more heartbroken in the end.
Some things that seem possibly pertinent:
-I am mid-30s (F); he’s mid-40s (M); neither of us ever married or even cohabitated. We're both pretty independent, which is why the LDR works (when it works).
-He's incredibly sweet and also pretty passive. I am more of a just-dive-in-and-see-if-it-works person. I don't want to bully him into making decisions that he regrets. I also don't want to wait around forever.
-I have some vague urges to have a kid, but he definitely doesn’t want to. I would be ok not having kids, but also worry that I will lose a few years waiting for him to make up his mind about this relationship, and then I won't have this relationship OR kids, and that would make me really sad.
-I bought a house in Town a few months before we met. He has a house in City. His house is sort of a…. project. It has a pretty serious bachelor vibe. I wonder whether I would be comfortable living there long-term.
-Which itself is premature, since we've never discussed me moving to City. I guess I feel like he should be the one to suggest it? I don’t particularly want to move there, but I would consider it for the relationship…. but only if he wanted me there enough to broach the subject.
-He has spent less than a week in Town over our 9 months together; I’ve spent nearly a month in City. This is largely because I have a more flexible schedule, but it still feels imbalanced to me.
-We both really love our friends and our social worlds in Town and City, respectively, and moving to a place that is new to both of us seems too tough to be worth it.
-I was single for a number of years before this relationship. The dating scene in Town is rough. I despair at ever finding anyone else I get along with this well.
He and I are so good at talking about other things, but when it comes to this I feel like our conversations just dead end. I wish we could just do some loose brainstorming together about ways our potential shared future could work without making any concrete plans or commitments, but even that feels like too much pressure to him; he just clams up during those conversations, and I get frustrated, and it’s a mess. I’ve stopped talking about it with him, but that makes me feel pretty lonely.
I guess I’m having a hard time sorting out my anxious fears about the future from my legitimate concerns. Is there a way to navigate this situation that puts less pressure on him, but that gives me some sense of security/stability? How do I keep my anxiety in check without feeling like I’m betraying myself? Any guidance, anecdotes, opinions, advice, reading suggestions, analogous novels/movies, or blog posts would be welcome. Thanks for reading all this.
We live ~1000 miles away from each other and met in my Town; he pursued me pretty doggedly after he returned to City, and would occasionally talk in vague ways about moving to Town. (He's lived in City pretty much his entire adult life.) I told him early on that my goal was to be in a relationship that involves a shared domestic life, and he said he wanted the same thing. It felt too early to be making any concrete, life-uprooting plans, but it felt good to know that we were more or less thinking in the same direction.
After the 6-month mark, though, that talk mostly stopped. He was just as sweet and present and devoted-seeming when we managed to be together — usually less than a week a month — but he would clam up when I mentioned anything about, e.g., job opportunities in his line of work in Town, or whatever. Eventually I asked him where his head was at; he said he “didn’t see a path” to moving to where I am, and left it at that. It was a really sad conversation, and we took a couple weeks off from talking.
When we resumed our conversations, I told him I was open to alternative arrangements — what if we both spent six months in Town & six months in City? or some other permutation?— and he seemed to find that interesting. (Both our work is possible to do in either place, although with varying degrees of difficulty.) As he sees it, though, the real source of relationship strain was pressure — namely, me putting pressure on him — and that we need to just let things evolve organically and see what happens.
I know that I have a tendency to want to assuage my anxiety through controlling and planning. One of the things that I love about him is his slower, more deliberate pace. When he makes his mind up to do something, he’s loyal & committed. I also know that 9 months (all of it long distance!) is quite early for either of us to be planning major life changes. Sometimes I think I should just chill out and let him lead the way and not bring up any of this future-oriented stuff for another 6 months or something. But I also get worried that I’m being strung along, and that the way it is now suits him just fine, that he will never change, and that I’ll spend another 6 months getting more attached to him and ultimately be more heartbroken in the end.
Some things that seem possibly pertinent:
-I am mid-30s (F); he’s mid-40s (M); neither of us ever married or even cohabitated. We're both pretty independent, which is why the LDR works (when it works).
-He's incredibly sweet and also pretty passive. I am more of a just-dive-in-and-see-if-it-works person. I don't want to bully him into making decisions that he regrets. I also don't want to wait around forever.
-I have some vague urges to have a kid, but he definitely doesn’t want to. I would be ok not having kids, but also worry that I will lose a few years waiting for him to make up his mind about this relationship, and then I won't have this relationship OR kids, and that would make me really sad.
-I bought a house in Town a few months before we met. He has a house in City. His house is sort of a…. project. It has a pretty serious bachelor vibe. I wonder whether I would be comfortable living there long-term.
-Which itself is premature, since we've never discussed me moving to City. I guess I feel like he should be the one to suggest it? I don’t particularly want to move there, but I would consider it for the relationship…. but only if he wanted me there enough to broach the subject.
-He has spent less than a week in Town over our 9 months together; I’ve spent nearly a month in City. This is largely because I have a more flexible schedule, but it still feels imbalanced to me.
-We both really love our friends and our social worlds in Town and City, respectively, and moving to a place that is new to both of us seems too tough to be worth it.
-I was single for a number of years before this relationship. The dating scene in Town is rough. I despair at ever finding anyone else I get along with this well.
He and I are so good at talking about other things, but when it comes to this I feel like our conversations just dead end. I wish we could just do some loose brainstorming together about ways our potential shared future could work without making any concrete plans or commitments, but even that feels like too much pressure to him; he just clams up during those conversations, and I get frustrated, and it’s a mess. I’ve stopped talking about it with him, but that makes me feel pretty lonely.
I guess I’m having a hard time sorting out my anxious fears about the future from my legitimate concerns. Is there a way to navigate this situation that puts less pressure on him, but that gives me some sense of security/stability? How do I keep my anxiety in check without feeling like I’m betraying myself? Any guidance, anecdotes, opinions, advice, reading suggestions, analogous novels/movies, or blog posts would be welcome. Thanks for reading all this.
I think that if you're looking for marriage or similar, and you're in your mid-30s, don't waste your time with this guy. What's so "pressuring" about wanting clarity about your relationship situation? The dude is in his mid-40s, for gods sake, not 22. If he's this averse to even DISCUSSING a future with you 9 months in, if he hasn't bothered to spend more than a week with you in your city in all these months, then there's no point in staying with him.
Don't fall into the trap of twisting yourself into a pretzel to meet this guy's needs for a commitment-free, pressure-free relationship entirely on his terms. Don't minimize your needs. You'll only get burned in the end and resent him for wasting your time. And yes I am speaking from firsthand experience.
posted by shaademaan at 5:41 AM on August 19, 2019 [57 favorites]
Don't fall into the trap of twisting yourself into a pretzel to meet this guy's needs for a commitment-free, pressure-free relationship entirely on his terms. Don't minimize your needs. You'll only get burned in the end and resent him for wasting your time. And yes I am speaking from firsthand experience.
posted by shaademaan at 5:41 AM on August 19, 2019 [57 favorites]
Nobody ever moves 1k miles by ‘letting things evolve organically’. You have to talk about it and plan it, on purpose. It will never just happen like when you bump into an old friend at grocery store, that’s crazy talk.
posted by SaltySalticid at 5:49 AM on August 19, 2019 [40 favorites]
posted by SaltySalticid at 5:49 AM on August 19, 2019 [40 favorites]
He is also putting pressure on you too, you know, in his (in your words) passive way. While you are asking for indicators that you can get what you need, he is straight up telling you what indicators for the safety *he* needs are, and what he will accept. He is not working with you on this, which is why you feel it's at a dead end when you talk about it. Him telling you you're pressuring him is his way of stopping the conversation, he is telling you what kind of relationship he wants by simply having it with you. Rather than discussing and negotiating it with you.
You say you are having trouble separating your anxious fears about the future from your legitimate concerns. Your anxious fears about the future *are* your legitimate concern. You're anxious. And uncomfortable. About your future. With him. This is your partner's problem as much as it is yours, that's how relationships work! He says he feels pressured by your desire to simply work it through with him. What he's telling you is he feels pressured to help you feel less anxious about your future with him. He needs to step it up and come clean with you about why.
posted by pazazygeek at 5:52 AM on August 19, 2019 [8 favorites]
You say you are having trouble separating your anxious fears about the future from your legitimate concerns. Your anxious fears about the future *are* your legitimate concern. You're anxious. And uncomfortable. About your future. With him. This is your partner's problem as much as it is yours, that's how relationships work! He says he feels pressured by your desire to simply work it through with him. What he's telling you is he feels pressured to help you feel less anxious about your future with him. He needs to step it up and come clean with you about why.
posted by pazazygeek at 5:52 AM on August 19, 2019 [8 favorites]
You need to decide whether the current arrangement is one you want to stay in, with the assumption that it will never change. If not, you need to let him know what needs to change, and he can decide whether he's going to work with you on it. It sounds pretty clear to me that he is NOT willing to make any changes in his life to better accommodate you... that's what he's avoiding saying when he says he doesn't want to feel pressured. But if you set a true boundary, it's not impossible that he'll change his mind and meet it.
(As a relationship anarchist, I would cheerfully keep this relationship in its current iteration as well as trying to get into another that better meets my needs, but I know most folks aren't into that.)
posted by metasarah at 6:07 AM on August 19, 2019 [5 favorites]
(As a relationship anarchist, I would cheerfully keep this relationship in its current iteration as well as trying to get into another that better meets my needs, but I know most folks aren't into that.)
posted by metasarah at 6:07 AM on August 19, 2019 [5 favorites]
Eh, this gives off he’s cheating vibes to me - particularly the change six months in. At minimum it indicates a compatibility issue. Honest and up front conversations about hopes and needs are a big, central thing for a healthy relationship. If it makes him feel pressured to have the conversation either he needs to step the heck up and bear the pressure - you’re worth it! - or end things.
posted by Mistress at 6:14 AM on August 19, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by Mistress at 6:14 AM on August 19, 2019 [6 favorites]
Your conversations feel like a dead end, because he doesn't want to talk about it. He doesn't want to change the way things are. He's probably getting all his needs met as-is and there is something about the distant of the relationship that is serving his needs and/or lifestyle.
You're being entirely reasonable and no, 9 months is not at all "too early" to have this discussion. Personally I'm getting vibes that he's not being totally upfront; either way, you don't have to wait around for "things to evolve naturally" (code phrase ppl use when they don't want to change). If you're not ok with the relationship being this way forever, i think you need to end it.
(Sorry if that sounds harsh. I speak from experience)
posted by bearette at 6:20 AM on August 19, 2019 [2 favorites]
You're being entirely reasonable and no, 9 months is not at all "too early" to have this discussion. Personally I'm getting vibes that he's not being totally upfront; either way, you don't have to wait around for "things to evolve naturally" (code phrase ppl use when they don't want to change). If you're not ok with the relationship being this way forever, i think you need to end it.
(Sorry if that sounds harsh. I speak from experience)
posted by bearette at 6:20 AM on August 19, 2019 [2 favorites]
The disparity in time spent in Town vs City stands out to me. You're bearing most of the logistical (and maybe financial) burden of keeping this relationship going, while he's coasting on the fact that he pursued you initially. And his "project" house and never being married/living together by his mid-40s? This is a guy who starts stuff and doesn't finish. I'm sorry.
posted by carmicha at 6:22 AM on August 19, 2019 [17 favorites]
posted by carmicha at 6:22 AM on August 19, 2019 [17 favorites]
The older and more settled you get, the higher the bar for major changes. I live in what I suspect you would consider a bachelor project and the idea of letting someone else enact their vision upon it mortifies me. One more reason why at age 50 I am unlikely to ever cohabitate again.
I don’t think there is any malice to your boyfriend, but I suspect he literally does not see a way forward here. Talking about the future forces him to confront the fact that while he really likes you, he’s more attached to the life he has built for himself than he is to your relationship.
Given what you’re looking for I suspect it’s time to move on.
——————
I am definitely NOT recommending this but you do have a Hail Mary play available to you, which is to move to City into your own place and build a new life (independent from his) there. You would get to see each other a lot more often and if you’re lucky see your relationship mature.
The ONLY reason I mention this as an option is that the dating pool in Town seems pretty meager and given what you’re looking for, City should offer more fruitful prospects if things don’t work out. Honestly I don’t think you’ll ever see your desired level of involvement from your boyfriend so you could probably just skip City and move to one you’re interested in instead.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:31 AM on August 19, 2019 [5 favorites]
I don’t think there is any malice to your boyfriend, but I suspect he literally does not see a way forward here. Talking about the future forces him to confront the fact that while he really likes you, he’s more attached to the life he has built for himself than he is to your relationship.
Given what you’re looking for I suspect it’s time to move on.
——————
I am definitely NOT recommending this but you do have a Hail Mary play available to you, which is to move to City into your own place and build a new life (independent from his) there. You would get to see each other a lot more often and if you’re lucky see your relationship mature.
The ONLY reason I mention this as an option is that the dating pool in Town seems pretty meager and given what you’re looking for, City should offer more fruitful prospects if things don’t work out. Honestly I don’t think you’ll ever see your desired level of involvement from your boyfriend so you could probably just skip City and move to one you’re interested in instead.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:31 AM on August 19, 2019 [5 favorites]
Eventually I asked him where his head was at; he said he “didn’t see a path” to moving to where I am, and left it at that. It was a really sad conversation, and we took a couple weeks off from talking.
He told you he's not going to commit to an in-person full-time relationship. If he were going to, it wouldn't be that he didn't see a path to moving, it would be "wow, I'm really torn because I want to be with you and yet I love [xyz] about my city" - or something. That you didn't talk for a few weeks and he didn't initiate any conversation about resolving this issue also speaks volumes.
If your goal is a committed relationship including kids, this is not your life partner.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:09 AM on August 19, 2019 [13 favorites]
He told you he's not going to commit to an in-person full-time relationship. If he were going to, it wouldn't be that he didn't see a path to moving, it would be "wow, I'm really torn because I want to be with you and yet I love [xyz] about my city" - or something. That you didn't talk for a few weeks and he didn't initiate any conversation about resolving this issue also speaks volumes.
If your goal is a committed relationship including kids, this is not your life partner.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:09 AM on August 19, 2019 [13 favorites]
As he sees it, though, the real source of relationship strain was pressure — namely, me putting pressure on him — and that we need to just let things evolve organically and see what happens.
This is what people do to gaslight instead of owning up to the feelings they have. He won't move. He doesn't want to move. He's enjoying the minor, casual relationship that you have and swatting away any attempt to move it forward or consider what effect his actions have on you. He's telling you everything that you need to know about the situation, but your want for him to be an adult person with communicable thoughts (which is so reasonable of you want to want! and really the most basic level of humanness he could provide) is clouding the fact that he is telling you over and over who he is and what he wants.
And it isn't a long-term partnership. I've just started referring to this rule for a lot of questions. None of this beyond the initial courtship sounds like a FUCK YES from him. At all. Quite the opposite. Get out now and try to find someone who values you, can't stop trying to delight you and who you feel the exact same way about because you deserve it. Waste no more time on this babyman.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 7:41 AM on August 19, 2019 [7 favorites]
This is what people do to gaslight instead of owning up to the feelings they have. He won't move. He doesn't want to move. He's enjoying the minor, casual relationship that you have and swatting away any attempt to move it forward or consider what effect his actions have on you. He's telling you everything that you need to know about the situation, but your want for him to be an adult person with communicable thoughts (which is so reasonable of you want to want! and really the most basic level of humanness he could provide) is clouding the fact that he is telling you over and over who he is and what he wants.
And it isn't a long-term partnership. I've just started referring to this rule for a lot of questions. None of this beyond the initial courtship sounds like a FUCK YES from him. At all. Quite the opposite. Get out now and try to find someone who values you, can't stop trying to delight you and who you feel the exact same way about because you deserve it. Waste no more time on this babyman.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 7:41 AM on August 19, 2019 [7 favorites]
If what you want is a stable, committed, exclusive cohabiting relationship and maybe kids as well, now is by no means too early to start giving some real thought as to whether this relationship is leading down a road that goes where you want to end up.
Not to put too fine a point to it, but once you're in your mid-30s/mid-40s the clock is ticking and it's time to stop screwing around about this kind of thing. When you're in your teens and (early) 20s, it's typical that you don't break up unless something has clearly "gone wrong" in the relationship and you don't feel the same way about each other or whatever. But once you move out of those years and have a desire for something more enduring, dating and relationships should have the character of "auditioning for a life partner." I have any number of friends entering their 50s who kept themselves on the shelf for vaguely committed relationships that hadn't "gone wrong" but were also clearly not leading in the direction of an enduring partnership. Those friends have now missed the boat on some of the things they wanted in life, and there are no do-overs.
I spent my late 20s to late 30s with a lovely woman in one of those relationships myself, so I know a little something about this. When I found myself newly single and was lucky enough to connect with Mrs. slkinsey in a similar situation, one of the things I said was that I would be moving on if our relationship wasn't growing towards becoming life partners after a year or so. Because here's the thing: Life is shorter than you think. You deserve to be with someone who wants the same things you want in a relationship. And every year the pool of quality available partners who want the things you want will be smaller and smaller, if for no other reason than the fact that people who want long-term enduring partnerships tend to, yanno, partner up and take themselves off the market.
It can be hard to end a relationship with someone you still like, but I would encourage you not to take yourself off the market for however long for a relationship that doesn't seem like it has very many of the things you want. This is even more the case due to the long-distance element, which has significantly slowed down the usual relationship progression that would have happened if you were living in reasonable proximity. (Not for nothing, but one of the friends who missed out on some things by taking herself off the market for over a decade was in a long distance relationship that fell apart within a year once they finally were cohabiting.) I think your worry that you might "lose a few years waiting for him to make up his mind about this relationship, and then won't have this relationship OR kids" is a very valid concern.
It's good that you're asking yourself these questions, and you should keep on asking them. Nine months is certainly not too long to "audition a potential life partner," but I'd say you've learned enough by now to figure out that this one isn't it.
posted by slkinsey at 7:43 AM on August 19, 2019 [6 favorites]
Not to put too fine a point to it, but once you're in your mid-30s/mid-40s the clock is ticking and it's time to stop screwing around about this kind of thing. When you're in your teens and (early) 20s, it's typical that you don't break up unless something has clearly "gone wrong" in the relationship and you don't feel the same way about each other or whatever. But once you move out of those years and have a desire for something more enduring, dating and relationships should have the character of "auditioning for a life partner." I have any number of friends entering their 50s who kept themselves on the shelf for vaguely committed relationships that hadn't "gone wrong" but were also clearly not leading in the direction of an enduring partnership. Those friends have now missed the boat on some of the things they wanted in life, and there are no do-overs.
I spent my late 20s to late 30s with a lovely woman in one of those relationships myself, so I know a little something about this. When I found myself newly single and was lucky enough to connect with Mrs. slkinsey in a similar situation, one of the things I said was that I would be moving on if our relationship wasn't growing towards becoming life partners after a year or so. Because here's the thing: Life is shorter than you think. You deserve to be with someone who wants the same things you want in a relationship. And every year the pool of quality available partners who want the things you want will be smaller and smaller, if for no other reason than the fact that people who want long-term enduring partnerships tend to, yanno, partner up and take themselves off the market.
It can be hard to end a relationship with someone you still like, but I would encourage you not to take yourself off the market for however long for a relationship that doesn't seem like it has very many of the things you want. This is even more the case due to the long-distance element, which has significantly slowed down the usual relationship progression that would have happened if you were living in reasonable proximity. (Not for nothing, but one of the friends who missed out on some things by taking herself off the market for over a decade was in a long distance relationship that fell apart within a year once they finally were cohabiting.) I think your worry that you might "lose a few years waiting for him to make up his mind about this relationship, and then won't have this relationship OR kids" is a very valid concern.
It's good that you're asking yourself these questions, and you should keep on asking them. Nine months is certainly not too long to "audition a potential life partner," but I'd say you've learned enough by now to figure out that this one isn't it.
posted by slkinsey at 7:43 AM on August 19, 2019 [6 favorites]
As he sees it, though, the real source of relationship strain was pressure — namely, me putting pressure on him — and that we need to just let things evolve organically and see what happens.
He likes what you two have and doesn't want to change it, but knows that if he says that he's not that into you and you'll never live together, you'll be gone and he'll be forced to give up his comfortable, easy, no-demands thing.
No need to worry about not having a baby; you're dating one.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:43 AM on August 19, 2019 [5 favorites]
He likes what you two have and doesn't want to change it, but knows that if he says that he's not that into you and you'll never live together, you'll be gone and he'll be forced to give up his comfortable, easy, no-demands thing.
No need to worry about not having a baby; you're dating one.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:43 AM on August 19, 2019 [5 favorites]
I'm in a long term long distance relationship with an affable but somewhat passive guy. Assuming good faith on the part of your guy (which... I really agree with Tell Me No Lies, I think he's already sort of told you how he feels) what has worked for us is just very low-pressure but good-natured deadlines. This was mostly early on in our relationship, we've basically hit our stride now. So basically "Hey I hear what you're saying but I need something a little different, so if this hasn't "evolved organically" to something where we're splitting time between our two places within the next two months, I'm going to need to move on"
He could make his choices based on that. And I could make my choices based on that. It's hard because sometimes it was obvious that, as much as he wanted to be with me, partner up, do couple things, there were some "path of least resistance" things that were hard for him to change. Your guy basically seems like he's doing path of least resistance stuff, and maybe has been after the pursuing you phase ended.
I think your anxiety is looking at this as more of a "we" decision as opposed to you just asking for what you want and need. It's okay to want a domestic relationship. It's okay for you to want to be someone with whom you have kids (or at least talk about it). It's okay to not want your relationship to feel like you're "pressuring" someone to get what you want. And this can be the problem with affable guys (maybe women too, I know it in this one way) who wants an organically evolving lifestyle. Sometimes it's just an excuse for not doing what they don't want to do.
posted by jessamyn at 7:52 AM on August 19, 2019 [11 favorites]
He could make his choices based on that. And I could make my choices based on that. It's hard because sometimes it was obvious that, as much as he wanted to be with me, partner up, do couple things, there were some "path of least resistance" things that were hard for him to change. Your guy basically seems like he's doing path of least resistance stuff, and maybe has been after the pursuing you phase ended.
I think your anxiety is looking at this as more of a "we" decision as opposed to you just asking for what you want and need. It's okay to want a domestic relationship. It's okay for you to want to be someone with whom you have kids (or at least talk about it). It's okay to not want your relationship to feel like you're "pressuring" someone to get what you want. And this can be the problem with affable guys (maybe women too, I know it in this one way) who wants an organically evolving lifestyle. Sometimes it's just an excuse for not doing what they don't want to do.
posted by jessamyn at 7:52 AM on August 19, 2019 [11 favorites]
My suggestion is instead of thinking about him, you think about your priorities and desires. Your relationship goal is to be in a relationship that involves a shared domestic life. You have vague urges to have a kid, and you're in your mid-30s. Your "anxious fears" are legitimate concerns. Trying to talk about how to make your relationship work, who would move, brainstorming, isn't putting pressure on him, it's doing the work. He's telling you, very clearly, that he doesn't want the relationship you want. So what are you going to do with that information?
I'll tell you what I've done: I've stayed in the relationship for a lot longer, suffered, and nothing changed. I had to drag out what I thought I needed the other person to directly tell me: that they didn't want me. Then, and only then did I break up, suffer some more, and move on to another unavailable guy. And I did this over and over again until I learned to stop trying to have relationships with guys who didn't want a relationship with me.
Now, I'm not saying this is you. But what I am saying is don't be me. Value your wants and desires and let go of this dude who's not on the same page.
The dating scene in Town is rough. I despair at ever finding anyone else I get along with this well.
Don't let this keep you in a relationship that's not working.
posted by vivzan at 9:14 AM on August 19, 2019 [6 favorites]
I'll tell you what I've done: I've stayed in the relationship for a lot longer, suffered, and nothing changed. I had to drag out what I thought I needed the other person to directly tell me: that they didn't want me. Then, and only then did I break up, suffer some more, and move on to another unavailable guy. And I did this over and over again until I learned to stop trying to have relationships with guys who didn't want a relationship with me.
Now, I'm not saying this is you. But what I am saying is don't be me. Value your wants and desires and let go of this dude who's not on the same page.
The dating scene in Town is rough. I despair at ever finding anyone else I get along with this well.
Don't let this keep you in a relationship that's not working.
posted by vivzan at 9:14 AM on August 19, 2019 [6 favorites]
I agree that your 6 month conversation sounds like it was really tough. Who resumed conversations? You say "we" - who reached out?
To me this sounds like something that has started to be less easy, less pleasant, less than what you want. But only for you - you are bending to what he has said he's willing to do.
What if you didn't put forth the effort? Like, just let him make all the effort for a month or two and see how much more or less you hear from him or see him. It might help clarify things.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 9:14 AM on August 19, 2019 [2 favorites]
To me this sounds like something that has started to be less easy, less pleasant, less than what you want. But only for you - you are bending to what he has said he's willing to do.
What if you didn't put forth the effort? Like, just let him make all the effort for a month or two and see how much more or less you hear from him or see him. It might help clarify things.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 9:14 AM on August 19, 2019 [2 favorites]
Is there a way to navigate this situation that puts less pressure on him, but that gives me some sense of security/stability?
Real talk, there is, and it is: You break up with him. No ultimatum, no "either this or that." Just, I'm sorry, this isn't what I want, I am looking for X, thank you for the good times, but good bye.
Then, ta-da, he has no pressure, and you are full in the security of where you stand and how stable you are.
Now IF he's really into you, but just kind of passive and maybe anxious in his own way, there's a chance this will kick his ass into gear and he'll realize he needs to get it together and offer to be the partner you need.
More likely, he will be relieved because he has actually just been too passive to "be the bad guy" and break up, especially since you don't put many demands on his time, and also sometimes there's sex. And at that point you'll realize that he suuuuuuuucks but hooray, you'll already be broken up with him!
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:23 AM on August 19, 2019 [13 favorites]
Real talk, there is, and it is: You break up with him. No ultimatum, no "either this or that." Just, I'm sorry, this isn't what I want, I am looking for X, thank you for the good times, but good bye.
Then, ta-da, he has no pressure, and you are full in the security of where you stand and how stable you are.
Now IF he's really into you, but just kind of passive and maybe anxious in his own way, there's a chance this will kick his ass into gear and he'll realize he needs to get it together and offer to be the partner you need.
More likely, he will be relieved because he has actually just been too passive to "be the bad guy" and break up, especially since you don't put many demands on his time, and also sometimes there's sex. And at that point you'll realize that he suuuuuuuucks but hooray, you'll already be broken up with him!
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:23 AM on August 19, 2019 [13 favorites]
But it’s unclear how/if we’ll ever be not long-distance in the future, and bringing it up makes my boyfriend feel pressured. ... As he sees it, though, the real source of relationship strain was pressure — namely, me putting pressure on him — and that we need to just let things evolve organically and see what happens.
Yeah, no. First off, you are not responsible for your boyfriend's feelings. You are responsible for your behavior but you haven't done anything wrong. You have merely reminded him of the fact that you desire a relationship that involves a shared domestic life, something he once claimed he also wanted. But when you asked how the two of you could move forward, his response was to claim the only problem was that he felt pressured.
-He has spent less than a week in Town over our 9 months together; I’ve spent nearly a month in City. This is largely because I have a more flexible schedule, but it still feels imbalanced to me.
That is because it is unbalanced. But unless you have spoken up and asked for him to spend more time in Town, then you can scarcely blame him for choosing what is easiest for him.
I know that I have a tendency to want to assuage my anxiety through controlling and planning.
What if you have a tendency to want to make plans like a grownup? What if it is not anxiety but a reasonable desire for a settled life with someone who loves you and shows it through his actions as much as you love him and show it through your actions?
-I was single for a number of years before this relationship. The dating scene in Town is rough. I despair at ever finding anyone else I get along with this well.
You are getting along really well with someone roughly one week a month and not all that well because you cannot actually discuss the future without making this guy practically break out in hives.
Dearest, beloved OP: Tell this guy that you need to come to an agreement about a future together within the next three months or you are moving on. And then do so. If Town sucks for dating, find another place to love or find someone willing to relocate to you. I can tell you what happens if you let the future play out organically: You will continue to get roughly 25% of what you want, and he will get a great deal more of what he wants. That doesn't make him a bad person, or someone who is cheating (WTF?). It simply makes him a bad match for you.
We women are so fucking beaten down that it often feels wrong to have desires or make demands. I swear it is not. One is allowed and usually encouraged to take up space in the life of one's beloved. I refuse to believe that being single is worse that being with someone who is not FUCK YES about you. But then, I am single, and I have left several relationships because I would rather enjoy my own company than settle for someone who is phoning it in.
You are not being overly controlling. You are noticing that you are doing most of the giving in this relationship, at least as you have described it, and that never feels good. I hope your boyfriend can adapt to your needs as well as you have adapted to his, or that you are able to leave this guy and find a better relationship with someone else, yourself, or both. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 9:40 AM on August 19, 2019 [6 favorites]
Yeah, no. First off, you are not responsible for your boyfriend's feelings. You are responsible for your behavior but you haven't done anything wrong. You have merely reminded him of the fact that you desire a relationship that involves a shared domestic life, something he once claimed he also wanted. But when you asked how the two of you could move forward, his response was to claim the only problem was that he felt pressured.
-He has spent less than a week in Town over our 9 months together; I’ve spent nearly a month in City. This is largely because I have a more flexible schedule, but it still feels imbalanced to me.
That is because it is unbalanced. But unless you have spoken up and asked for him to spend more time in Town, then you can scarcely blame him for choosing what is easiest for him.
I know that I have a tendency to want to assuage my anxiety through controlling and planning.
What if you have a tendency to want to make plans like a grownup? What if it is not anxiety but a reasonable desire for a settled life with someone who loves you and shows it through his actions as much as you love him and show it through your actions?
-I was single for a number of years before this relationship. The dating scene in Town is rough. I despair at ever finding anyone else I get along with this well.
You are getting along really well with someone roughly one week a month and not all that well because you cannot actually discuss the future without making this guy practically break out in hives.
Dearest, beloved OP: Tell this guy that you need to come to an agreement about a future together within the next three months or you are moving on. And then do so. If Town sucks for dating, find another place to love or find someone willing to relocate to you. I can tell you what happens if you let the future play out organically: You will continue to get roughly 25% of what you want, and he will get a great deal more of what he wants. That doesn't make him a bad person, or someone who is cheating (WTF?). It simply makes him a bad match for you.
We women are so fucking beaten down that it often feels wrong to have desires or make demands. I swear it is not. One is allowed and usually encouraged to take up space in the life of one's beloved. I refuse to believe that being single is worse that being with someone who is not FUCK YES about you. But then, I am single, and I have left several relationships because I would rather enjoy my own company than settle for someone who is phoning it in.
You are not being overly controlling. You are noticing that you are doing most of the giving in this relationship, at least as you have described it, and that never feels good. I hope your boyfriend can adapt to your needs as well as you have adapted to his, or that you are able to leave this guy and find a better relationship with someone else, yourself, or both. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 9:40 AM on August 19, 2019 [6 favorites]
He’s telling you he sees no future with you. If there will be a future together, it’ll be only because you forced it and he couldn’t say no because he’s Peter Pan, which he will one day throw in your face when he has a tantrum.
Yes, I speak from experience. I’ve been in the LDR and guided the person into moving in and it was an epic failure. I refused to accept his organic unfolding plan meant he had no interest in me.
Trust me. Get out now.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 10:54 AM on August 19, 2019 [5 favorites]
Yes, I speak from experience. I’ve been in the LDR and guided the person into moving in and it was an epic failure. I refused to accept his organic unfolding plan meant he had no interest in me.
Trust me. Get out now.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 10:54 AM on August 19, 2019 [5 favorites]
He wants to let it evolve. It isn't evolving in to what you need.
posted by Lady Li at 12:15 PM on August 19, 2019
posted by Lady Li at 12:15 PM on August 19, 2019
At six months in, nine months in, especially in your 30's and 40's, having conversations about the future is normal. And in a relationship with longer-term potential, I'd expect those conversations to be happy and collaborative even if they aren't definitive--the kind of "loose brainstorming" you mention. His response of "you're putting pressure on me" and "let things evolve organically" indicates he's not interested in having those conversations.
Will he gain interest at some future date? Maaaaaybe. But in my experience, a romantic partner who has a defensive or impatient response to the first discussions of what the future may hold is someone who isn't invested in a shared future. And you shouldn't have to sublimate your needs for his anxieties, or feel like you're waiting around for him to catch up. It's fine for two people in a relationship to not be perfectly aligned--that's what those brainstormy conversations are for!--but you should be pointing in approximately the same direction, and it doesn't sound like you are.
While I am not team DTMFA, I am team HTDHLCA (have the direct, honest, loving conversation already). And if he's unwilling to engage in that conversation, then DTMF. You deserve more
posted by adastra at 1:15 PM on August 19, 2019
Will he gain interest at some future date? Maaaaaybe. But in my experience, a romantic partner who has a defensive or impatient response to the first discussions of what the future may hold is someone who isn't invested in a shared future. And you shouldn't have to sublimate your needs for his anxieties, or feel like you're waiting around for him to catch up. It's fine for two people in a relationship to not be perfectly aligned--that's what those brainstormy conversations are for!--but you should be pointing in approximately the same direction, and it doesn't sound like you are.
While I am not team DTMFA, I am team HTDHLCA (have the direct, honest, loving conversation already). And if he's unwilling to engage in that conversation, then DTMF. You deserve more
posted by adastra at 1:15 PM on August 19, 2019
I disagree with a lot of comments. Nine months is really early to radically change your lives to move in together at any age, but especially as grown adults. You barely know eachother! Waiting for someone else to ask you to move in before bringing up the topic seems really strange. "Give up your life and move to my city" is a much more imposing thing to say than, "I'd like to give up my life and move to your city." If he were writing this question, I'd tell him that asking you to move in as a selfish, unfair choice. It's your move here. (Whether or not you want to move to his city is an entirely different question.) Living apart for years isn't a bad option, and it might be a lot better than any of the alternatives and should be considered. It can be really great. Spending a few days a month with someone fantastic is worth a lot more than living full time with nearly anyone else, at least in my experience.
The refusal to communicate honestly is the only thing to worry about. You should worry about it. Well, that and having kids. That's a pretty unambiguous, huge, life-changing thing you should be on the same page about. It's not a hard "yes or no" question to answer if both parties are being honest. Press him to the wall. Nobody in their forties doesn't know if they want to have kids or not. At least, nobody worth spending time with. Start the conversation knowing that your response will be if the answer is, "no."
Best of luck and good wishes.
posted by eotvos at 1:59 PM on August 19, 2019
The refusal to communicate honestly is the only thing to worry about. You should worry about it. Well, that and having kids. That's a pretty unambiguous, huge, life-changing thing you should be on the same page about. It's not a hard "yes or no" question to answer if both parties are being honest. Press him to the wall. Nobody in their forties doesn't know if they want to have kids or not. At least, nobody worth spending time with. Start the conversation knowing that your response will be if the answer is, "no."
six months in Town & six months in CityThat's a made up thing that doesn't actually exist as an option for nearly any working class or professional class couple who needs to make an income. If there aren't very specific private details that make this even remotely possible, it's a terrible plan.
Best of luck and good wishes.
posted by eotvos at 1:59 PM on August 19, 2019
I think you definitely should raise the issue of you moving to City when you discuss the future. Because you need to to hear whether he can be enthusiastic about that and about what that would mean for you personally, outside of the relationship with him. If he can engage with your life on that level, then maybe there's something.
posted by ambrosen at 4:08 PM on August 19, 2019
posted by ambrosen at 4:08 PM on August 19, 2019
I’ve been in a LDR in my early thirties. Here’s what it looked like. We talked and texted constantly. Every four to six weeks, one of us would fly across the country at a fair expense to be with the other (we took it in turns.) Leaving was excruciating. A lot of our conversations were about how we could make it work to be together eventually and what our life would look like then. We were talking like this at about 6 months in. I see none of this in your relationship.
I see someone who likes what he has now and wants to stay put but he knows if he tells you this, you’ll leave. If he is also aware that you potentially wants kids and is quite ok with leaving you waiting while he burns through your prime fertility years to avoid an awkward conversation then honestly he’s also a complete piece of shit. An honorable man would tell you straight that you want different things and let you go and find it. Have the conversation and find out if he is or not.
posted by Jubey at 5:03 PM on August 19, 2019
I see someone who likes what he has now and wants to stay put but he knows if he tells you this, you’ll leave. If he is also aware that you potentially wants kids and is quite ok with leaving you waiting while he burns through your prime fertility years to avoid an awkward conversation then honestly he’s also a complete piece of shit. An honorable man would tell you straight that you want different things and let you go and find it. Have the conversation and find out if he is or not.
posted by Jubey at 5:03 PM on August 19, 2019
This guy is just waiting for you to break up with him. He doesn't want to be your live-in, full-time partner, but doesn't have the guts to actually tell you that. Do both of you a favor and end it. I'm sorry, it sucks. I met my now-husband when I was 37, and he's great! He was the one to initiate relationship discussions not long after we started dating, and he was very clear about wanting a partnership with me. It was like a breath of fresh air- I never had to worry about how things stood or where we were headed as a couple, or feel like it was automatically my role as the woman to be the driver of our relationship (ugh, no thank you). Just pointing that out so you know that there are men in your age range who want what you want and will put in the effort to make it happen. Your current guy is not one of them.
posted by emd3737 at 5:41 PM on August 19, 2019
posted by emd3737 at 5:41 PM on August 19, 2019
9 months is not soon. At four months, I 100% knew I wanted to marry someone and we talk about our life together. all. the. time. Because we are so into each other it kind of hurts. The future isn't scary (but also yes is scary) when you know who you want to be with and they reciprocate. The last time I saw her she cried because it was scary to love someone so much, she said. Anyway, I think that sort of love can exist now. I was the guy in your example previously but man am I glad I didn't just grudgingly go along with stuff with people who were not right for me (but were by and large extremely great people). You can't make someone love you, but unfortunately, we often try and people are too chickenshit to just cleanly break something.
This is a subject I'm really passionate about because my mom was just telling me how when she went on a blind date with my dad he was still married (!!!) but separated, and they were married six months after meeting. All I could think about while she was telling my girlfriend and I this was how if it was an AskMe I would've been like "whoaaaaaa, pump the brakes!" and I still probably would have, but your situation is the polar opposite. I just want you to get that people will be super into you and hopefully, you're right for each other then and from my experience right now that is so unbelievably life affirming and wonderful that it is worth the risk. No one can promise success, but this guy sure doesn't sound like he is it.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 8:50 PM on August 19, 2019 [1 favorite]
This is a subject I'm really passionate about because my mom was just telling me how when she went on a blind date with my dad he was still married (!!!) but separated, and they were married six months after meeting. All I could think about while she was telling my girlfriend and I this was how if it was an AskMe I would've been like "whoaaaaaa, pump the brakes!" and I still probably would have, but your situation is the polar opposite. I just want you to get that people will be super into you and hopefully, you're right for each other then and from my experience right now that is so unbelievably life affirming and wonderful that it is worth the risk. No one can promise success, but this guy sure doesn't sound like he is it.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 8:50 PM on August 19, 2019 [1 favorite]
At 6 months into our somewhat clandestine relationship I told my husband that while I appreciated that he had to take his time deciding if he wanted to stay in a religious life or not, that I was having deeper feelings for him and I thought I could probably keep sneaking around for another 3-4 months but after that I would regretfully have to go my own way.
He told his superior he wanted to leave that night. (Which still seems fast to me!) He took a month of reflection about it overseas. We still lived apart for about a year after that, tested our relationship out, etc. But he heard me and his response was fuck, yes. Next week is our 25th wedding anniversary. So that’s my basis for telling you that this guy is not aligned with you. The people who love us don’t play games with our lives.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:56 AM on August 20, 2019 [9 favorites]
He told his superior he wanted to leave that night. (Which still seems fast to me!) He took a month of reflection about it overseas. We still lived apart for about a year after that, tested our relationship out, etc. But he heard me and his response was fuck, yes. Next week is our 25th wedding anniversary. So that’s my basis for telling you that this guy is not aligned with you. The people who love us don’t play games with our lives.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:56 AM on August 20, 2019 [9 favorites]
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posted by amro at 5:40 AM on August 19, 2019 [31 favorites]