UK: working visas and pressures on relationship

April 27, 2017 7:35 AM

Special snowflake question inside - all to do with visa and work pressures on a relationship/marriage in the UK.

Background on this. We've been together around two years. It's a bit rough at times (to the point of screaming arguments and low character blows), but I love them and they love me. We're working on making things better. If this was the entire situation, we would not be getting married at this point, but we're not at a breaking up point either.

Problem is that they're a foreign national on a sponsored visa via their work. This means they cannot change company without getting re-sponsored (we've looked for any other ancestry options or similar - no go). That's difficult because any employer must show that they have tried to find someone from within the EU first (my partner is not in a shortage occupation). The reason this is a problem is that their work is horrific. Terrible boss and higher managers, disregarded work achievements, bullying culture, treated like dirt, etc. Enough to bring them to tears at home and at work. This is not a place that anyone would voluntarily stay at. It's badly affecting them, and I can see the way the overflow from it makes them snap/harder to live with. It's at/near the point where a Dr could easily be signing them off sick because of it. They can't keep working there.

There's a possible solution to this - we get married and they move from a sponsored visa to a spousal visa. Then they can move jobs like any other person.

I'm torn on this. I would not be up for marriage with the relationship as it is normally, but I know that part of the reason the relationship is rocky is because of the impact their work situation has on them. Essentially it comes down to a hard choice between two extremes forced by this visa situation - do we get married now when it might not be right, or go to an extreme long distance relationship/separate?

I'd like some external takes on this from other people because I'm completely tying my head in knots. Have you been in a similar situation, and what did you do? What would you do in this situation? Have you got any ideas?

Thanks in advance for anything, I'm tearing my hair out. I'll try and respond via a throwaway if you have any questions.

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (9 answers total)

I know it's a fundamental human right, but spousal visas are frequently refused in the UK, so you will need to get the paperwork in order, and the Home Office may well make it extremely unpleasant for you, so that's something to bear in mind.
posted by ambrosen at 7:52 AM on April 27, 2017

I've been in a similar situation. I was on a specific Visa for a specific company in Canada and it was AWFUL there. One of the worst working experiences of my life.

I had applied for a PR Card but the wait was interminable. I couldn't leave my awful job, but I HATED every moment there.

During that time, my (now) husband's family kept saying things along the lines of "Well - you guys can always get married!!! That would sort everything out"

And I remember thinking that even though I loved my then boyfriend with all my heart, I did NOT want to be the person who got married BECAUSE of a Visa. I mean, we eventually got married anyway but that was all Post PR and Citizenship so they weren't even part of the equation.

I just knew that even though I would have been marrying for love, there would always be a part of me that would wonder if I did it even just a little bit for the VISA. I wondered in my head that if we did get married, and times got tough, the Visa thing would be something that would weigh on my mind. Did I make the right choice, did I act hastily, did I make the wrong decision?

I wanted to go into my marriage knowing 100% that this was my choice and not influenced by any external factors whatsoever. I know there is always a temptation to just "get married" and then your VISA troubles will miraculously disappear, but realistically, that's not always true. Especially in this situation, I think you should check out other options before marriage. Marriage is not something to be taken lightly and whilst I truly do understand that the VISA process is arduous, marriage is for the long run.
posted by JenThePro at 8:16 AM on April 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Do they have any interest in getting another degree? They could switch to a student visa (Tier 4), do a one year masters, and still work half time -- but now, anywhere they wanted. And that'd give you a year to get yourselves sorted out.

Downsides: it may be too late to get into programmes they want (it's not a great time to apply), it's pricey (especially as they'll need to pay international student fees).
posted by harperpitt at 8:30 AM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

I totally get how frustrating and stressful visas can be, but I don't think it's a good idea to marry this person right now. Just practically speaking: it might not solve your problems. I got married to a European a couple of years ago, and my spousal visa got denied the first time around for various dumb bureaucratic reasons. After a great amount of stress and a couple of expensive discussions with an immigration lawyer, I figured out I was allowed to stay in the country and re-apply for a spousal visa. The whole process took 13 months, because the wait time for the spousal visa here is so long. So I ended up in visa limbo for 13 months. It was rotten.

Anyway, it might not go like that. But there could definitely be problems with your partner's spousal visa. I don't know about the UK, but in the country I'm in, all of my local friends were appalled that my first application got denied, because they just assumed that it was a right to be with your spouse, but it's not. And in all of the possible situations where something goes wrong with the visa (or it being denied outright), you still end up being married to someone that you're not sure about.

So I would work on sorting out your relationship first. And your partner should start looking for another job. I think getting married partly because of a visa can work out okay, but only if you're absolutely sure you would want to marry that person anyway and the visa stuff just ends up speeding up your timeline a bit. Since you don't sound at all sure that you want to marry this person, I don't think it's a good idea.
posted by colfax at 8:36 AM on April 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Can you partner find a new (sponsored) job? Passing the Resident Labour Market Test is not as horrible or difficult as it sounds - it's less about proving there is no one in Europe who can do the job and more about demonstrating that your partner was the most qualified person who applied. This can be done, for example, by posting a dated job description online.

If they're already here on a Tier 2 visa, passing the RLMT shouldn't be too much of a stress. The bigger issue may be in transferring from Tier 2 (ICT) to Tier 2 (General), if applicable, but I don't know how this works right now.

I agree with everyone else that marriage is probably not the right thing to do right now.
posted by lumiere at 9:30 AM on April 27, 2017

I have basically been in this situation. You should definitely talk with a solidly good immigration solicitor; the laws are changing rapidly and they know much better than you ever will about what your options are. A solicitor can also successfully fight a rejected visa or file for extenuating circumstances if need be, etc. (ask me how I know).

From what I know of this, your partner would be eligible for a partner visa with you as the sponsor. No marriage is required here — in fact, in some ways, marriage (or engagement) makes this more difficult and expensive. aiui, what is required for a partner visa is relationship of 2+ years and £18,000 income or savings between you — again, look at the UKVI/uk.gov website and talk to a solicitor as my info is over a year out of date and a lot has happened.

Just to corroborate the OP and respond to some of the previous comments, in the current UK political climate and under the new 6 April 2016 rules (thanks Teresa May!) finding another employer in the UK that is A) eligible to sponsor migrants, B) wants to sponsor migrants, C) can afford to sponsor migrants, D) would pass the RLMT, etc. and E) would pay a salary of £35k+ is … near impossible. Ask me how I know.

Finding a way to survive this situation may be their best option here. Good luck!

Please feel free to get in touch with me about this.
posted by iamkimiam at 10:27 AM on April 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

I have no advice for whether or not you should stay in your relationship, or how your partner could stay in their situation at work.

But regarding marriage, I believe you should marry a person when your relationship helps you through tough times. Right now it sounds like your relationship is your tough time. This awful job, and its requisite fallout on your relationship and how you communicate and relate to one another? This is not going to be the only storm you have to weather with this person. When thinking about marriage, you should think about the lows and not the highs as the measure of viability. How bad does it get? Could you stand it to get worse? Could you stand it to get more frequent? What if it just never got any better?

I know that it is really hard to break up when and if you are not ready. It doesn't get easier if you're married. I will tell you I have had a very good number of friends who got married in your situation (lots of visa workers in my industry). They are all either divorced now or getting divorced or fretting over when or how to get a divorce. One thing I have not ever heard is "I am so glad we got married and then worked out our fundamental relationship problems after, since we had to."

Think of it this way - your partner is in the driver's seat of their life. It is on your partner to improve their situation at work, in their relationship, etc, to make the life they want for themselves. It sounds like you are taking a lot of this burden on yourself.

Marriage does not fix any fundamental relationship problems. It simply makes them a legally permanent fixture in your life. That probably sounds like an empty platitude but it's because it's true!
posted by pazazygeek at 10:49 AM on April 27, 2017 [9 favorites]

Have you been living together? If a non-UK person lives with their British partner for 2 years they can apply for a visa for that.

For me that was not an option, as I was on a Tier 4 visa and met my partner as the visa was ending. I came back and did a second degree under the student visa, but it conveniently is ~1.5 years long and I still wouldn't have been able to stay for longer, so we got married. I too didn't like the idea of marrying just to get a visa, but 1) I wasn't marrying just to get a visa; I wanted to be able to be with my partner, and 2) I definitely want to be with my partner forever. If you don't feel that way then I don't think you should do it, especially since it is so costly to apply for one (I don't think it's as hard as people think, though - I follow the visa thread on the UK-Yankee forum and as long as you meet all the requirements it will probably be okay).
posted by taskmaster at 11:49 AM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

I know it's a fundamental human right, but spousal visas are frequently refused in the UK

Yes, I have a friend who had her UK spousal visa rejected when she went to go join her husband. Crazily enough, her husband ended up applying for a spousal visa to come here to the US, and it was accepted, which if you know anything about the US visa process really says something about the UK process!

As to your relationship . . . eeehhh, I don't know. Yes, the relationship would probably be better if your partner wasn't under so much stress, but on the other hand, this is what they look like under stress. Do you want to sign up for that? Mr. Freedom had an incredibly taxing job when we first met and now we have moved to a new state for a much better job. The improvement in both of our daily stress levels is immense, but even before during the bad times I never felt like our relationship was awful; he still always made our time together about us and not work, and never snapped at me.

Just a thought.
posted by chainsofreedom at 1:19 PM on April 27, 2017