I give up.
December 31, 2014 2:33 PM Subscribe
I can't understand people at all and I don't know how to handle this anymore.
I like encountering new people. I like when I get to know people and I thought I could get along with everybody. My favorite activity is having a one-on-one conversation over beers or coffee and when I find myself in an enjoyable conversation I want it to last forever. I want to be able to walk up to people and chat with them about nothing. I want to meet people who, when I meet them again, I feel like I am continuing where we left off from a fun conversation.
Recently though I find that I cannot relate to certain people at all on a conversational level and I feel that certain people don't like conversing beyond a functional level. By functional I mean people strike up conversations towards some kind of purpose or goal. Mostly work but I am finding this elsewhere too. And I find the functional level kind of frustrating because of the constrictions. Like I feel people want more action in life and they want it planned out and I want more "what if...?" or "check out this thing..." until an idea falls out. And then talking more about the idea (see where this is heading?). Or to try to talk to someone in order to understand why they feel or think that way about something and then never talk about it again unless they want to. Or to vent and I found that no one has time for that outside of facebook or twitter. Doesn't matter. I want the speculative/hypothetical conversation and I want them to have this kind of conversation with me.
I'm not finding this in my city. I've encountered enough frustratingly functional and one-sided conversations to the point where I have completely shut down in the public sphere. I don't try to meet new people and when people try to approach me I shut down or turn very guarded. In alot of cases I lose my patience. And I feel the negative feelings resulting from these experiences are ruining my ability to connect to the new people out there, much less finding the romantic interest who likes conversing too.
I know I am not like this. I know I am not this angry and lonely person that I feel I've turned into from these experiences and that I know people perceive me to be. But I don't know how to connect with people anymore. How can I better connect to people when people don't want what I have to offer?
I like encountering new people. I like when I get to know people and I thought I could get along with everybody. My favorite activity is having a one-on-one conversation over beers or coffee and when I find myself in an enjoyable conversation I want it to last forever. I want to be able to walk up to people and chat with them about nothing. I want to meet people who, when I meet them again, I feel like I am continuing where we left off from a fun conversation.
Recently though I find that I cannot relate to certain people at all on a conversational level and I feel that certain people don't like conversing beyond a functional level. By functional I mean people strike up conversations towards some kind of purpose or goal. Mostly work but I am finding this elsewhere too. And I find the functional level kind of frustrating because of the constrictions. Like I feel people want more action in life and they want it planned out and I want more "what if...?" or "check out this thing..." until an idea falls out. And then talking more about the idea (see where this is heading?). Or to try to talk to someone in order to understand why they feel or think that way about something and then never talk about it again unless they want to. Or to vent and I found that no one has time for that outside of facebook or twitter. Doesn't matter. I want the speculative/hypothetical conversation and I want them to have this kind of conversation with me.
I'm not finding this in my city. I've encountered enough frustratingly functional and one-sided conversations to the point where I have completely shut down in the public sphere. I don't try to meet new people and when people try to approach me I shut down or turn very guarded. In alot of cases I lose my patience. And I feel the negative feelings resulting from these experiences are ruining my ability to connect to the new people out there, much less finding the romantic interest who likes conversing too.
I know I am not like this. I know I am not this angry and lonely person that I feel I've turned into from these experiences and that I know people perceive me to be. But I don't know how to connect with people anymore. How can I better connect to people when people don't want what I have to offer?
This list should get you started on finding some in your area. Once you go to one or two you'll find flyers for the rest and get on the mailing lists and whatnot and be in the loop.
If you can afford it, rent a room in the hotel where the convention is being held. Half the fun is going to the room parties after the scheduled program is done for the day.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:47 PM on December 31, 2014
If you can afford it, rent a room in the hotel where the convention is being held. Half the fun is going to the room parties after the scheduled program is done for the day.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:47 PM on December 31, 2014
Seriously, your description of your ideal social life is a perfect description of my experience in Pacific Northwest fandom from ages 16 to 22. Fandom is so very much what you're looking for that if you're not already into sci-fi and fantasy, it's worth forcing yourself to cultivate an interest in it just for the social life. If you're really really not into fiction, then an interest in science and technology should still be sufficient for making friends at the hard sci-fi conventions.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:56 PM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Jacqueline at 2:56 PM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
Not to make a reductive conclusion but are you post college, pre marriage/kids /mortgage? Say 26-29? You don't say, but that is generally when one's age cohort starts to have shit to do and things to get done and no longer wants to spend hours just shooting the breeze with some, especially an acquaintance or stranger.
I'd pay money to get out off a wacky "what if" kind of conversation, but I don't go to conventions either, so that might be as good a place as any to start looking.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 2:58 PM on December 31, 2014 [10 favorites]
I'd pay money to get out off a wacky "what if" kind of conversation, but I don't go to conventions either, so that might be as good a place as any to start looking.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 2:58 PM on December 31, 2014 [10 favorites]
Moving on from the fandom hard sell, here are some other places I have personally found what you're looking for:
If you qualify for membership, Mensa TGIFs and other weekly/monthly socials are a great place to meet people, although the conversational quality at these can be kinda hit-or-miss depending on the dominant personalities in your local group. If your metro area is big enough to support more than one regular Mensa gathering I would advise "shopping around" to see which one(s) you fit in best at because some Mensans have a tendency to take over a group and drive out anyone who doesn't get along with them. So if you don't like the first Mensa group you meet, don't give up on the whole organization.
If there's a World Affairs Council chapter near you, start going to their events. It'll be more of an effort to make friends there because most of their events are structured as one-to-many speeches instead of many-to-many conversations and also because most of the attendees are likely to be busy professionals. But if you force yourself to be outgoing and talk to people before and after the main event then you'll definitely meet people who are interested in discussing big ideas or the reasoning behind their personal ideologies.
Volunteering for political campaigns and other forms of activism is another great way to meet people whom you can eventually get into long, late-night conversations about how the world could be different.
If you have the time and money, you could take one evening community college class per semester. The students there will generally be older and the professors more open to forming friendships with students than they are at a university. Pick something from the social sciences or humanities, ideally with a class participation requirement, since those classes are more likely to include class discussions and be fertile ground for forming a study group. I'd avoid taking a hard science class because at the community college level those tend to be very functionally oriented.
And of course there's always MetaFilter Meetups.
So don't give up. The conversations and friendships you want are obtainable, you just haven't looked for them in the right places yet.
posted by Jacqueline at 3:21 PM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
If you qualify for membership, Mensa TGIFs and other weekly/monthly socials are a great place to meet people, although the conversational quality at these can be kinda hit-or-miss depending on the dominant personalities in your local group. If your metro area is big enough to support more than one regular Mensa gathering I would advise "shopping around" to see which one(s) you fit in best at because some Mensans have a tendency to take over a group and drive out anyone who doesn't get along with them. So if you don't like the first Mensa group you meet, don't give up on the whole organization.
If there's a World Affairs Council chapter near you, start going to their events. It'll be more of an effort to make friends there because most of their events are structured as one-to-many speeches instead of many-to-many conversations and also because most of the attendees are likely to be busy professionals. But if you force yourself to be outgoing and talk to people before and after the main event then you'll definitely meet people who are interested in discussing big ideas or the reasoning behind their personal ideologies.
Volunteering for political campaigns and other forms of activism is another great way to meet people whom you can eventually get into long, late-night conversations about how the world could be different.
If you have the time and money, you could take one evening community college class per semester. The students there will generally be older and the professors more open to forming friendships with students than they are at a university. Pick something from the social sciences or humanities, ideally with a class participation requirement, since those classes are more likely to include class discussions and be fertile ground for forming a study group. I'd avoid taking a hard science class because at the community college level those tend to be very functionally oriented.
And of course there's always MetaFilter Meetups.
So don't give up. The conversations and friendships you want are obtainable, you just haven't looked for them in the right places yet.
posted by Jacqueline at 3:21 PM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
Sounds like you need good friends to hang out with.
This is absolutely out of left field, but if you're not uncomfortable with religion (or already committed to one), I highly recommend going to a church (or a synagogue) where the congregation is very friendly and open to others. Your best bet is probably UU (Unitarian Universalists). I've met some great friends through my local UU church, and our church has a monthly meeting where literally all you do is sit in a circle and talk, at length, about what is going on in your life and ruminating together on an interesting topic.
If you are at all in the tech community, joining a programming group or two might be a window to building acquaintances that can build to friendships.
You don't say where you are living right now. If you can communicate this via a mod, that would really help. I would not be surprised if people who live in your area know plenty of places where you can meet the sort of people you're looking for.
posted by Deathalicious at 3:38 PM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
This is absolutely out of left field, but if you're not uncomfortable with religion (or already committed to one), I highly recommend going to a church (or a synagogue) where the congregation is very friendly and open to others. Your best bet is probably UU (Unitarian Universalists). I've met some great friends through my local UU church, and our church has a monthly meeting where literally all you do is sit in a circle and talk, at length, about what is going on in your life and ruminating together on an interesting topic.
If you are at all in the tech community, joining a programming group or two might be a window to building acquaintances that can build to friendships.
You don't say where you are living right now. If you can communicate this via a mod, that would really help. I would not be surprised if people who live in your area know plenty of places where you can meet the sort of people you're looking for.
posted by Deathalicious at 3:38 PM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
It sounds like you've connected very well with people in the past, but are striking out now. It's not you! It's probably a combination of bad luck, not being around enough people who are on your wavelength, and your idealized goal of getting along with everyone.
About that getting along with everyone thing: you can't do it, because no one can. Some people just don't click. It's no one's fault, and it's impossible to appeal to everyone. I'm not at all surprised that you're encountering this at work, because a lot of people prefer to keep work separate from their social lives. They're just there to work.
Additionally, be aware that the type of conversation you crave requires a certain level of familiarity, which usually takes a lot of time to develop. If you've been able to strike up long, interesting, fun conversations with people you barely know, you're clearly doing something right.
It's just now a matter of looking in the right places, managing your expectations a little, and not losing hope. You'll find these people and these conversations again.
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:50 PM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
About that getting along with everyone thing: you can't do it, because no one can. Some people just don't click. It's no one's fault, and it's impossible to appeal to everyone. I'm not at all surprised that you're encountering this at work, because a lot of people prefer to keep work separate from their social lives. They're just there to work.
Additionally, be aware that the type of conversation you crave requires a certain level of familiarity, which usually takes a lot of time to develop. If you've been able to strike up long, interesting, fun conversations with people you barely know, you're clearly doing something right.
It's just now a matter of looking in the right places, managing your expectations a little, and not losing hope. You'll find these people and these conversations again.
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:50 PM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
Very few people want to have ongoing, speculative conversations with someone they just met. In Robert DeNiro's circle of trust, you start out outside of it and need to work your way in by establishing that you (and the other person) are the person they want to actually converse with on a deeper level. The reason these conversations seem "one sided" to you is because the person you're talking with is thinking, "who is this person I hardly know that's socially exhausting me when I'm still trying to find out if I want to talk with him more in the future?"
Where are the friends you used to have these relationships with? Could it be that you're trying to put the cart before the horse and aren't making an effort to form friendships but rather want to jump straight into "intense conversations" before you get to know anyone better?
posted by deanc at 4:34 PM on December 31, 2014 [9 favorites]
Where are the friends you used to have these relationships with? Could it be that you're trying to put the cart before the horse and aren't making an effort to form friendships but rather want to jump straight into "intense conversations" before you get to know anyone better?
posted by deanc at 4:34 PM on December 31, 2014 [9 favorites]
OP, I enjoy having the sort of speculative, hypothetical conversations you prefer, but with my wife, not some random stranger I don't know from Adam who approaches me while I'm out and about. If I've left my home, it's with a specific purpose in mind, and that purpose does not include making friends with strangers who want to have meandering, speculative face-to-face conversations. I suspect that the people you meet, who frustrate you so, are similar to me in that respect.
posted by starbreaker at 4:50 PM on December 31, 2014 [19 favorites]
posted by starbreaker at 4:50 PM on December 31, 2014 [19 favorites]
Some times you just click with people. I met my friend Donna at work, and we hit it off right away. We'd go out after work and hang out in a coffee shop and eat dinner, and drink coffee until all hours. We finally became roommates because we could not get enough of each other. We still have 2 hour long phone calls about nothing and everything, even though we're about 800 miles away from each other.
I met my friend Summer in high school. We have 40 years of history. We don't talk much on the phone, but when we get together we talk for hours and hours.
I met my friend Erika at a UU church. We bonded quickly and I'm her children's Godmother. We chat for hours on the phone and we visit with each other.
I met many, many people, including Husbunny, in a Daria chat room. We are still close today and the folks that are local to us come over and we all hang out and talk for hours. We actually travel to see folks all over the US! I've hosted people in my house from Europe. So, another vote for fandom.
Not everyone you meet is going to be into the stuff you're interested in, and you can't swamp anyone all at once. It starts with lunches at work, happy hour, fellowship after church (HUGE in UU culture,) evenings out, and coffee on weekends. It grows.
My point is that you know them when you meet them. You can't force it.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:54 PM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
I met my friend Summer in high school. We have 40 years of history. We don't talk much on the phone, but when we get together we talk for hours and hours.
I met my friend Erika at a UU church. We bonded quickly and I'm her children's Godmother. We chat for hours on the phone and we visit with each other.
I met many, many people, including Husbunny, in a Daria chat room. We are still close today and the folks that are local to us come over and we all hang out and talk for hours. We actually travel to see folks all over the US! I've hosted people in my house from Europe. So, another vote for fandom.
Not everyone you meet is going to be into the stuff you're interested in, and you can't swamp anyone all at once. It starts with lunches at work, happy hour, fellowship after church (HUGE in UU culture,) evenings out, and coffee on weekends. It grows.
My point is that you know them when you meet them. You can't force it.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:54 PM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
Recently though I find that I cannot relate to certain people at all on a conversational level and I feel that certain people don't like conversing beyond a functional level. By functional I mean people strike up conversations towards some kind of purpose or goal. Mostly work but I am finding this elsewhere too.
This is entirely appropriate for a workplace. It's a professional environment and not a social one.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:25 PM on December 31, 2014 [19 favorites]
This is entirely appropriate for a workplace. It's a professional environment and not a social one.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:25 PM on December 31, 2014 [19 favorites]
See, that kind of conversation kind of requires putting your guard down, allowing yourself to defocus your mind from looking out for scams and danger and just be whimsical and silly. It's just not going to happen outside close friends and younger kids who haven't learned the hard way.
I have friends I can be like this with and it can be enjoyable. If a relative stranger or casual acquaintance tries, though, it can be exhausting trying to fake it while I'm watching out for the "angle." What does this person want from me? Are they about to ask me to stay at my place for a while? For money? It's a too-intimate-too-soon problem.
posted by ctmf at 11:53 PM on December 31, 2014 [5 favorites]
I have friends I can be like this with and it can be enjoyable. If a relative stranger or casual acquaintance tries, though, it can be exhausting trying to fake it while I'm watching out for the "angle." What does this person want from me? Are they about to ask me to stay at my place for a while? For money? It's a too-intimate-too-soon problem.
posted by ctmf at 11:53 PM on December 31, 2014 [5 favorites]
It's interesting to see this question, because I have been thinking / wondering about the exact same thing recently. I'm a mid-30s happily single male. I love meeting people and making new friends (I travel a lot). Deep conversations are important to me because I don't have time for superficiality or for people who aren't emotionally mature enough to talk about what really matters.
But not everyone is like this. In fact, a lot of people are not like this. You have to be vulnerable to put yourself out there, make new friends, be accepting of rejection, and be willing to expose who you really are. At least in the U.S., this is RARE.
Add on top that in the US it's also rare to not be in heaps of debt and knee deep in a lifestyle of crass consumerism (fyi, I'm American). A lot of people are stuck in this cycle of wake up, drive a shitty commute, work all day, spend time with the kids, heat up food, watch TV, go to bed, and do it all over again in the morning. If they're lucky, they'll get to go to the pub once a week for a couple hours to hang out with the friends they already have.
Summary? Most people don't have time for you. And even when they act like they might, many people are so self-absorbed they won't actually follow through and you might get what I call a "friend lite" -- someone who will hang out with you, but who is not reliable, and does not actually want a true friendship.
Your goal is to figure out how to identify these people right away and forget them (unless you want them for a strategic reason, like a future job connection). The next thing is to discover ways of meeting people that are more likely to want (and reciprocate) the type of friendships you are looking for.
I too am curious where you live because for me there are few places in the US where I'd want to live because the social lifestyle in the rest of the country just rubs me the wrong way. I love the SF Bay Area, Portland, Seattle, Chicago, and NYC -- and I know I could never ever ever live in Atlanta again, much less somewhere like Phoenix or Miami (there are of course other great places too like Philly, Austin, and New Orleans that I've only visited for a few days each so I can't yet say if I'd live there).
So: your environment also determines the types of people you will meet.
I found a website just a couple days ago with some interesting articles (and most only take 5-10 minutes to read, which is a bonus). One of my favorites is Fuck Yes or No. He basically says if you meet someone and your experience with them doens't make you think "Fuck Yes!" and you don't see them acting in a "Fuck Yes!" way towards you -- MOVE ON.
(check out his archive of articles -- some are quite great... and although a lot of his advice is written from the angle of men trying to meet women... most of what he says is also useful for friendships)
Life is short, you only have time for Fuck Yes people who make you excited to be alive.
After reading that article, I went through my contact list of 100+ people that I know fairly well and deleted over 15 of them because if I was being honest with myself, they were a Fuck No. That doesn't mean everyone remaining is a Fuck Yes, but some are potential, and other people I have in my life for different reasons. Getting rid of the definite Fuck No's gives me more time to focus on my definite Fuck Yes's.
Last but not least, check out the book Daring Greatly by Brene Brown. She also has a couple of TED Talks. Here's one of them. Watch both.
posted by topsykretts at 5:02 AM on January 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
But not everyone is like this. In fact, a lot of people are not like this. You have to be vulnerable to put yourself out there, make new friends, be accepting of rejection, and be willing to expose who you really are. At least in the U.S., this is RARE.
Add on top that in the US it's also rare to not be in heaps of debt and knee deep in a lifestyle of crass consumerism (fyi, I'm American). A lot of people are stuck in this cycle of wake up, drive a shitty commute, work all day, spend time with the kids, heat up food, watch TV, go to bed, and do it all over again in the morning. If they're lucky, they'll get to go to the pub once a week for a couple hours to hang out with the friends they already have.
Summary? Most people don't have time for you. And even when they act like they might, many people are so self-absorbed they won't actually follow through and you might get what I call a "friend lite" -- someone who will hang out with you, but who is not reliable, and does not actually want a true friendship.
Your goal is to figure out how to identify these people right away and forget them (unless you want them for a strategic reason, like a future job connection). The next thing is to discover ways of meeting people that are more likely to want (and reciprocate) the type of friendships you are looking for.
I too am curious where you live because for me there are few places in the US where I'd want to live because the social lifestyle in the rest of the country just rubs me the wrong way. I love the SF Bay Area, Portland, Seattle, Chicago, and NYC -- and I know I could never ever ever live in Atlanta again, much less somewhere like Phoenix or Miami (there are of course other great places too like Philly, Austin, and New Orleans that I've only visited for a few days each so I can't yet say if I'd live there).
So: your environment also determines the types of people you will meet.
I found a website just a couple days ago with some interesting articles (and most only take 5-10 minutes to read, which is a bonus). One of my favorites is Fuck Yes or No. He basically says if you meet someone and your experience with them doens't make you think "Fuck Yes!" and you don't see them acting in a "Fuck Yes!" way towards you -- MOVE ON.
(check out his archive of articles -- some are quite great... and although a lot of his advice is written from the angle of men trying to meet women... most of what he says is also useful for friendships)
Life is short, you only have time for Fuck Yes people who make you excited to be alive.
After reading that article, I went through my contact list of 100+ people that I know fairly well and deleted over 15 of them because if I was being honest with myself, they were a Fuck No. That doesn't mean everyone remaining is a Fuck Yes, but some are potential, and other people I have in my life for different reasons. Getting rid of the definite Fuck No's gives me more time to focus on my definite Fuck Yes's.
Last but not least, check out the book Daring Greatly by Brene Brown. She also has a couple of TED Talks. Here's one of them. Watch both.
posted by topsykretts at 5:02 AM on January 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
There are essentially two things you can do differently: who you are having conversations with and how you approach said conversations.
For the first you might like to try meetup.com. There may well be a philosophy discussion group or similar you might enjoy.
As to approach it sounds like you mainly aim for....functional conversations. You've decided before the conversation that it should be a long rambling speculative one. Then you become disappointed when that doesn't occur.
I would agree taking risks and seeing where things go is a good way to have an enjoyable conversation and deepen relationships. But the counterpoint to this is listening to the other person and taking that in. If a person just wants to ask you about a work problem...then that's what you should let occur. A conversation is not a solo activity - the other person's needs and desires are just as important as yours. Even if they are more 'mundane.'
posted by Erberus at 5:42 AM on January 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
For the first you might like to try meetup.com. There may well be a philosophy discussion group or similar you might enjoy.
As to approach it sounds like you mainly aim for....functional conversations. You've decided before the conversation that it should be a long rambling speculative one. Then you become disappointed when that doesn't occur.
I would agree taking risks and seeing where things go is a good way to have an enjoyable conversation and deepen relationships. But the counterpoint to this is listening to the other person and taking that in. If a person just wants to ask you about a work problem...then that's what you should let occur. A conversation is not a solo activity - the other person's needs and desires are just as important as yours. Even if they are more 'mundane.'
posted by Erberus at 5:42 AM on January 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
I guess the idea that everyone you deign to talk to should be, as topsykretts writes, a 'Fuck Yeah' person is kind of cool, but at the same time it's rather self-serving. I know where you're coming from; I'm going through a lonely patch myself. But - at least for me - to be out coasting to meet people who are people who upon first contact make you excited to be alive is asking too much of them and basically jettisoning any possible companionship they may offer simply because they're not exciting. I mean, I would love the kind of conversation you're looking for, but there are at least two pertinent aspects to it that you may want to consider.
The first is that conversation is a two-way street. By this I mean that both of you should be interested and engaged. Like Erberus says, the mundane things that someone else has to say are just as important. Why? Because they're your friend, after a fashion. Good conversation as an end in itself is... probably impossible. Good conversation as a consequence of a mutually respecting, mutually sympathetic friendship is more within all our reaches.
The second is that part of it is really just about clicking with someone else, which is a matter both of chemistry and time. I go to a really funky small liberal arts college where there are really interesting or strange people who are for the most part all open to the possibility of having conversations like the ones you admire. We're all friendly with each other, but I don't get to have these conversations all the time, even with my closest friends. Sometimes people just want to vent about how annoying it is that people don't collect their laundry on time.
So, I guess try to meet more people, but I think you'd have more luck with finding the good conversation you want by approaching this from the perspective of meeting people instead of finding interesting conversation partners in a haphazard hit and run fashion.
Part of this is bad luck plus circumstances, so... hang in there, even as you reach out to appropriate avenues to meet people, wherever that may be for you. (Book club? Recreational league? MeFi Chat? MeMail? Meetups?)
posted by undue influence at 6:14 AM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
The first is that conversation is a two-way street. By this I mean that both of you should be interested and engaged. Like Erberus says, the mundane things that someone else has to say are just as important. Why? Because they're your friend, after a fashion. Good conversation as an end in itself is... probably impossible. Good conversation as a consequence of a mutually respecting, mutually sympathetic friendship is more within all our reaches.
The second is that part of it is really just about clicking with someone else, which is a matter both of chemistry and time. I go to a really funky small liberal arts college where there are really interesting or strange people who are for the most part all open to the possibility of having conversations like the ones you admire. We're all friendly with each other, but I don't get to have these conversations all the time, even with my closest friends. Sometimes people just want to vent about how annoying it is that people don't collect their laundry on time.
So, I guess try to meet more people, but I think you'd have more luck with finding the good conversation you want by approaching this from the perspective of meeting people instead of finding interesting conversation partners in a haphazard hit and run fashion.
Part of this is bad luck plus circumstances, so... hang in there, even as you reach out to appropriate avenues to meet people, wherever that may be for you. (Book club? Recreational league? MeFi Chat? MeMail? Meetups?)
posted by undue influence at 6:14 AM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Like others have pointed out already, long, speculative conversations are something that a lot of people don't typically engage in with people that they don't know well--especially after college. This means, outside of specific environments where this kind of conversation is much more common--like conventions--you should try to modify your expectations for how you interact with people. For work people, these conversations will probably rarely/never happen and trying to push for them is just going to frustrate you and them. For dates, maybe give it some time.
If you can find an environment where these conversations are more the norm and then also recalibrate your expectations for people outside of that environment, with long speculative conversations being more of a happy occasional surprise than an expected occurrence, then I think that will help. Some people will really love and appreciate what you have to give but it may take some time to get there with them--so if you can also try and enjoy, or at least not be frustrated by, other types of interactions in the meantime that may really help.
posted by pie_seven at 8:30 AM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
If you can find an environment where these conversations are more the norm and then also recalibrate your expectations for people outside of that environment, with long speculative conversations being more of a happy occasional surprise than an expected occurrence, then I think that will help. Some people will really love and appreciate what you have to give but it may take some time to get there with them--so if you can also try and enjoy, or at least not be frustrated by, other types of interactions in the meantime that may really help.
posted by pie_seven at 8:30 AM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I enjoy talking about ideas too. I am not sure how active you are on Metafilter, but I feel that participating here has helped to meet the need for the "interesting conversation" type of interaction in my day-to-day life.
Like others have said, the kind of conversation you are looking for is not usually what happens when people first get to know each other. Not everyone even enjoys talking about ideas or possibilities. You say: "I don't understand people", but it sounds like what you really mean to say is "I don't know why more people don't think the way I do."
It sounds like you are feeling lonely in your new city and are craving a connection with someone. It almost makes me wonder if you have forgotten that all the connections you had in wherever you lived previously were made over time. I also wonder if maybe new city is quite different in demographics than old city and people are indeed less amenable to rambling conversations with strangers. Have you tried meeting people outside of the context of work or of just running into someone interesting by chance, as you seem to allude to being able to do in your previous city? I would try getting involved in some activity that is meaningful to you or which seems interesting to you and, in a low-pressure environment like that, people would likely be more open to that kind of conversation.
For the meantime, all you can do is enjoy and feel grateful for the interactions you have with people, even though seemingly insignificant. Not every conversation has to be, or can be, some grand exploration of some concept or idea; I think it is best and most realistic to think of those occasions as a pleasant surprise. However, every once in a while, shallow-seeming connections grow deeper and you may find yourself having the types of conversation you are looking for. But do take time to feel grateful for whatever kind of time you get to spend in the company of pleasant people: being hungry for good conversation is much preferable to being hungry for any conversation.
posted by sevenofspades at 8:55 AM on January 1, 2015
Like others have said, the kind of conversation you are looking for is not usually what happens when people first get to know each other. Not everyone even enjoys talking about ideas or possibilities. You say: "I don't understand people", but it sounds like what you really mean to say is "I don't know why more people don't think the way I do."
It sounds like you are feeling lonely in your new city and are craving a connection with someone. It almost makes me wonder if you have forgotten that all the connections you had in wherever you lived previously were made over time. I also wonder if maybe new city is quite different in demographics than old city and people are indeed less amenable to rambling conversations with strangers. Have you tried meeting people outside of the context of work or of just running into someone interesting by chance, as you seem to allude to being able to do in your previous city? I would try getting involved in some activity that is meaningful to you or which seems interesting to you and, in a low-pressure environment like that, people would likely be more open to that kind of conversation.
For the meantime, all you can do is enjoy and feel grateful for the interactions you have with people, even though seemingly insignificant. Not every conversation has to be, or can be, some grand exploration of some concept or idea; I think it is best and most realistic to think of those occasions as a pleasant surprise. However, every once in a while, shallow-seeming connections grow deeper and you may find yourself having the types of conversation you are looking for. But do take time to feel grateful for whatever kind of time you get to spend in the company of pleasant people: being hungry for good conversation is much preferable to being hungry for any conversation.
posted by sevenofspades at 8:55 AM on January 1, 2015
I generally enjoy having that type of conversations but I'm in my mid-twenties now and I'm finding myself having them a lot less. I think part of it is that during college and the first few years after college, I was spending a ton of time figuring out what I felt about gender and politics and why the world is like it is and what the future might be like. Now, I'm still figuring stuff out about everything, but I feel like I'm past the sort of 101 and 102 stages of that and I have some strong, well-thought out opinions. I'm willing to defend them if I have to, but I'm really, really sick of having conversations about the really basic, 101 details of, say gender identity. Trying to figure out if a new person is going to understand or be willing to try to understand isn't always worth it, and is usually a little exhausting and stressful, especially in a work situation, where I have to judge how far out there I can go before I look some crazy person. I'd rather save my energy for conversations with people I already know and trust.
This isn't saying that you are at the 101 level, but strangers you've just met can't tell and figuring that out isn't always simple. Work especially isn't the time. Mundane, small talk can totally be mindnumbing, but it's a really important part of making friends and learning other people's boundaries so that you can become better friends.
That said, the way to have more of these conversations is to pick your locations and time. Over a beer in a pub. If you have the opportunity to travel, hostels are perfect for this.
posted by raeka at 10:34 AM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
This isn't saying that you are at the 101 level, but strangers you've just met can't tell and figuring that out isn't always simple. Work especially isn't the time. Mundane, small talk can totally be mindnumbing, but it's a really important part of making friends and learning other people's boundaries so that you can become better friends.
That said, the way to have more of these conversations is to pick your locations and time. Over a beer in a pub. If you have the opportunity to travel, hostels are perfect for this.
posted by raeka at 10:34 AM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Are you a dude by any chance? Women get approached all of the time in public by guys who want something from them and it's very hard to figure out which guys are harmless and which ones aren't, so a lot of women aren't really up for long winding conversations with strangers.
In order to have the conversations you want to have, you have to go to a club or an activity where people are all under one roof (it could be a metaphorical roof, if you join a hiking club or a kickball team), which --for most people--turns strangers from strangers you'd like to avoid into new people you don't know yet.
You also have to obey the basic social conventions, because however much you want to talk about it, from the other person's perspective, it can feel quite aggressive or uncomfortable to be forced into a conversation about intimate or personal things. You have to start with small talk first, get to know people a little and respect everyone's boundaries. If someone nopes out of a conversation by giving one word or minimal answers, or starts avoiding eye contact with you and starts using closed-off body language, you have to back off and talk about lighter topics again. Once you've proven yourself to be a safe person to talk to, then people will start opening up.
posted by colfax at 10:42 AM on January 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
In order to have the conversations you want to have, you have to go to a club or an activity where people are all under one roof (it could be a metaphorical roof, if you join a hiking club or a kickball team), which --for most people--turns strangers from strangers you'd like to avoid into new people you don't know yet.
You also have to obey the basic social conventions, because however much you want to talk about it, from the other person's perspective, it can feel quite aggressive or uncomfortable to be forced into a conversation about intimate or personal things. You have to start with small talk first, get to know people a little and respect everyone's boundaries. If someone nopes out of a conversation by giving one word or minimal answers, or starts avoiding eye contact with you and starts using closed-off body language, you have to back off and talk about lighter topics again. Once you've proven yourself to be a safe person to talk to, then people will start opening up.
posted by colfax at 10:42 AM on January 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
What is it that you're offering people? This post details a lot of what you want, but you don't seem to give people what they want. And when you don't get what you want, you shut down and refuse to engage. It's all about you and how you want things to be, but other people are naturally going to have other ideas.
Start with giving people what they want, then ask for what you want. Folks are more likely to give you something when you give them something first. If you walk up to someone and start making massive demands, then of course they'll shut down. From your point of view, it might not seem like much to ask, but it might seem like quite a lot from the POV of the other person. Since you need the other person, you need to not be making demands that they can't meet.
I think you need to just keep trying. If someone can't give you what you want, then move on to the next person. And the next person. And the next person after that. Stopping putting the effort in won't get you anywhere. It's hard work and it's not pleasant, but you massively raise the chances of getting what you want by getting out there and looking for it.
Bring something to the conversation. Maybe you're really good at making people laugh, or making people feel good about themselves, or you can tell interesting stories in a relatable way. Give before you expect to receive. Make sure you're giving something that people want to receive, too. Social skills are tough, especially for those of us that have had to work at gaining them, but they're well worth learning.
posted by Solomon at 12:41 PM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Start with giving people what they want, then ask for what you want. Folks are more likely to give you something when you give them something first. If you walk up to someone and start making massive demands, then of course they'll shut down. From your point of view, it might not seem like much to ask, but it might seem like quite a lot from the POV of the other person. Since you need the other person, you need to not be making demands that they can't meet.
I think you need to just keep trying. If someone can't give you what you want, then move on to the next person. And the next person. And the next person after that. Stopping putting the effort in won't get you anywhere. It's hard work and it's not pleasant, but you massively raise the chances of getting what you want by getting out there and looking for it.
Bring something to the conversation. Maybe you're really good at making people laugh, or making people feel good about themselves, or you can tell interesting stories in a relatable way. Give before you expect to receive. Make sure you're giving something that people want to receive, too. Social skills are tough, especially for those of us that have had to work at gaining them, but they're well worth learning.
posted by Solomon at 12:41 PM on January 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:44 PM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]