Please help me stop spanking my kid.
November 18, 2014 10:46 PM Subscribe
I'm having problems controlling my temper, every so often, with my child, who is increasingly pressing my buttons. I would like advice on how to not forget myself and spank this child when my temper is piqued (usually by hitting, kicking, or spitting).
I have a three-year-old child. (S)he is very fun and pleasant but also very high-energy most of the time. On bad days, that energy turns into a giant tantrum, usually at bedtime or when (s)he is caught doing something naughty (like tormenting the cat). We have a consistent time-out policy; Child spends three minutes in their room for most serious offenses (like throwing things aggressively). Once in a while, (s)he will kick or hit me as hard as possible while being transported to time-out, and sometimes when that happens I lose my temper and spank Child (once, on the bottom, sometimes bare bottom, with my hand). Tonight, for example, (s)he whacked me with a drum stick (s)he found behind the couch when I tried to take another toy away at bedtime. It really hurt and I lost my temper and swatted Child on the bottom as I took them to bed.
I really really do not want to do that. I know spanking is generally bad for children and I can tell that it only makes Child more upset and aggressive in response. It's a lack of self-control on my part, and I imagine my own spanking-heavy upbringing (belts, paddles) has something to do with it.
Are there any practices that can help me self-recognize when my temper flares up, before I spank Child? Has anyone ever found a mindset or something that works for them to stifle the compulsion to swat a thrashing child on the bottom? Obviously "don't leave drumsticks lying around" is relevant advice, and clearly my disciplinary strategy needs some tweaking as Child is getting older and more willful/less cooperative, but it's the temper issue within myself that I'm worried about.
I have a three-year-old child. (S)he is very fun and pleasant but also very high-energy most of the time. On bad days, that energy turns into a giant tantrum, usually at bedtime or when (s)he is caught doing something naughty (like tormenting the cat). We have a consistent time-out policy; Child spends three minutes in their room for most serious offenses (like throwing things aggressively). Once in a while, (s)he will kick or hit me as hard as possible while being transported to time-out, and sometimes when that happens I lose my temper and spank Child (once, on the bottom, sometimes bare bottom, with my hand). Tonight, for example, (s)he whacked me with a drum stick (s)he found behind the couch when I tried to take another toy away at bedtime. It really hurt and I lost my temper and swatted Child on the bottom as I took them to bed.
I really really do not want to do that. I know spanking is generally bad for children and I can tell that it only makes Child more upset and aggressive in response. It's a lack of self-control on my part, and I imagine my own spanking-heavy upbringing (belts, paddles) has something to do with it.
Are there any practices that can help me self-recognize when my temper flares up, before I spank Child? Has anyone ever found a mindset or something that works for them to stifle the compulsion to swat a thrashing child on the bottom? Obviously "don't leave drumsticks lying around" is relevant advice, and clearly my disciplinary strategy needs some tweaking as Child is getting older and more willful/less cooperative, but it's the temper issue within myself that I'm worried about.
Have you ever tried meditating? It sounds a little counter-intuitive, but what I found when I did it the most (10-20 minutes a day) was that the process was very frustrating, but that the effects spilled out a lot into my daily life. In particular, spending those daily minutes observing my mind when it was trying to be quiet allowed me to get a bit of separation from my thoughts and feelings. I think that might come in handy in the parenting moments you describe. You know what you want to do, there just isn't a space between the provocation (kid acting wild) and your reaction (spanking). I think maybe a little meditating, even a teensy bit (i.e. 5 minutes a day) might help stick a millimeter of emotional space in there for you -- and give you a chance to respond instead of react.
Eight Minutes of Meditation is a nice book. The app/website headspace.com is good too.
Good on you for working to break these intergenerational patterns.
posted by feets at 11:19 PM on November 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Eight Minutes of Meditation is a nice book. The app/website headspace.com is good too.
Good on you for working to break these intergenerational patterns.
posted by feets at 11:19 PM on November 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
I spanked my children. That's how I was raised, and I'm sorry to say I didn't really question it at the time. But here's the thing about that -- apart from the harmfulness of the practice itself -- kids grow up, and when they are too big to spank, they'll be just as infuriating at times, I promise you. You'll have to -- I had to -- come up with a way to firmly and lovingly discipline them without laying your hands on them. When they're middle schoolers, when they're teenagers, they'll at times be just as immune to reason and heedless of consequences as a toddler. What will you do then? Well, you could do that now.
posted by pH Indicating Socks at 11:36 PM on November 18, 2014 [16 favorites]
posted by pH Indicating Socks at 11:36 PM on November 18, 2014 [16 favorites]
First of all, I am sincerely very happy you are asking this question. You are a very wise person to reach out.
Seek parenting classes! I'm totally serious!! These are genius, and they are available. Quality may vary, so do some homework.
You'll get more from a class than the internet.
I'm going to point this out: "... and I imagine my own spanking-heavy upbringing (belts, paddles) has something to do with it. "
Yep. A thousand times.
I could espouse for hours on this topic. My own son is 3.5, similar to your daughter, and I was severely abused.
I just had a very pertinent conversation with our babysitter this past weekend, who is a professional teacher pursuing her MBA. We've known each other a year and a half, but until this weekend she did not know I was abused. Shocking to me (she's so lovely and mild mannered) she disclosed her own history of abuse. She specifically mentioned that her own parents were abused, and that they were somewhat better with her younger brother. My mom was abused. Hard to tell about my dad, but I've always suspected his own father was very harsh with him growing up.
----
Your first step here is to recognize you do not not not want to perpetuate this Cycle of Abuse.
----
Parenting classes are genius because the right ones will demystify your child's behavior such that it will no longer push your buttons. It will give you tools to deal with unwanted behaviors like hitting, spitting, and "challenges to your authority."
Let me speak to that last point - Challenges To Your Authority.
Uh, that doesn't exist as a concept, unless you let it. Don't argue with a 3 year old. Recognize that at 3 years old, your child is developmentally doing whatever they do. It's your job to cleverly accommodate your child's developmental stage while building in some teaching aimed at building skills as they get older.
Your child is not ever "challenging your authority." She simply does not have the maturity, brain-width, or ability to cooperate. Maybe she's tired. Or hungry. Maybe she's worn out from play but does not have the ability to communicate such a concept!
I don't know what kind of expectations you are applying towards your daughter, but chuck them out the window. They are not doing either of you any good.
It's really easy for me to give useless directions because I've spent years in therapy and actively planned not to repeat my own parents' mistakes. I reframed the meaning of Childhood. I work hard not to compare my kid to his peers. I stopped expecting compliance without providing copious explanations and simultaneous demonstrations of the behavior I want to see.
Sometimes it works. Sometimes I apologize and then put the toys away. I'm sensitive to tantrums, but I very politely explain why and don't give in - even if he hits me.
He doesn't escalate because I don't.
Get formal help, because you don't want this dynamic you describe to solidify. You want to be unflappable, yet firm and kind. That takes training.
Just seek Parenting Classes. It will make you feel so much better, you'll have support, you will learn tools.
At some point you'll want therapy because someone you trusted when you were young and vulnerable used paddles and belts to discipline you. Holy shit, is that a lifelong wound. I'm sorry someone did that to you.
posted by jbenben at 11:56 PM on November 18, 2014 [34 favorites]
Seek parenting classes! I'm totally serious!! These are genius, and they are available. Quality may vary, so do some homework.
You'll get more from a class than the internet.
I'm going to point this out: "... and I imagine my own spanking-heavy upbringing (belts, paddles) has something to do with it. "
Yep. A thousand times.
I could espouse for hours on this topic. My own son is 3.5, similar to your daughter, and I was severely abused.
I just had a very pertinent conversation with our babysitter this past weekend, who is a professional teacher pursuing her MBA. We've known each other a year and a half, but until this weekend she did not know I was abused. Shocking to me (she's so lovely and mild mannered) she disclosed her own history of abuse. She specifically mentioned that her own parents were abused, and that they were somewhat better with her younger brother. My mom was abused. Hard to tell about my dad, but I've always suspected his own father was very harsh with him growing up.
----
Your first step here is to recognize you do not not not want to perpetuate this Cycle of Abuse.
----
Parenting classes are genius because the right ones will demystify your child's behavior such that it will no longer push your buttons. It will give you tools to deal with unwanted behaviors like hitting, spitting, and "challenges to your authority."
Let me speak to that last point - Challenges To Your Authority.
Uh, that doesn't exist as a concept, unless you let it. Don't argue with a 3 year old. Recognize that at 3 years old, your child is developmentally doing whatever they do. It's your job to cleverly accommodate your child's developmental stage while building in some teaching aimed at building skills as they get older.
Your child is not ever "challenging your authority." She simply does not have the maturity, brain-width, or ability to cooperate. Maybe she's tired. Or hungry. Maybe she's worn out from play but does not have the ability to communicate such a concept!
I don't know what kind of expectations you are applying towards your daughter, but chuck them out the window. They are not doing either of you any good.
It's really easy for me to give useless directions because I've spent years in therapy and actively planned not to repeat my own parents' mistakes. I reframed the meaning of Childhood. I work hard not to compare my kid to his peers. I stopped expecting compliance without providing copious explanations and simultaneous demonstrations of the behavior I want to see.
Sometimes it works. Sometimes I apologize and then put the toys away. I'm sensitive to tantrums, but I very politely explain why and don't give in - even if he hits me.
He doesn't escalate because I don't.
Get formal help, because you don't want this dynamic you describe to solidify. You want to be unflappable, yet firm and kind. That takes training.
Just seek Parenting Classes. It will make you feel so much better, you'll have support, you will learn tools.
At some point you'll want therapy because someone you trusted when you were young and vulnerable used paddles and belts to discipline you. Holy shit, is that a lifelong wound. I'm sorry someone did that to you.
posted by jbenben at 11:56 PM on November 18, 2014 [34 favorites]
I tell myself that no lesson, no matter how important it seems to me at the time (like rspecting my authority) is more important than this. No lesson is more important than teaching my child that her parents will never lay hands on her, and that nobody has the right to hurt her, no matter how infuriating she is.
I find that once I have established this as The Most Important Thing in my head, it is easier for me to remember in heated moments.
After all, you manage not to do a lot of things, right? You manage not to slap her face or beat her with a belt. Very consciously decide that not spanking takes the same priority.
Practice this for a week. Practice not spanking. If your kid pulls the cat's tail, don't spank. Whatever you do, you don't spank. If you are so angry you can't think what else to do, do nothing. Turn away, eat a cookie. Let it go. Talk to the kid later. It's okay. Your kid is not going to turn into a barbarian if you stop disciplining for a week.
After this week, work on things to do instead of spanking. You could first use your words "I am so angry now I could scream!" to convey your rage. Then do something to discipline/teach. Because it's not thr rage that caused the kid to learn. It is good for the kid to know what you are feeling and how you express those feelings healthily. But the rage is not what will make her stop tormenting the cat. Your alternative teaching/disciplining methods (and time) are what will do the trick.
Rage is not discipline. Work on expressing rage, work on disciplining bad behaviour. Separately.
Good luck! You can do this! (Mom of three year old who sometimes pushed and yanked her daughter.)
posted by Omnomnom at 12:48 AM on November 19, 2014 [10 favorites]
I find that once I have established this as The Most Important Thing in my head, it is easier for me to remember in heated moments.
After all, you manage not to do a lot of things, right? You manage not to slap her face or beat her with a belt. Very consciously decide that not spanking takes the same priority.
Practice this for a week. Practice not spanking. If your kid pulls the cat's tail, don't spank. Whatever you do, you don't spank. If you are so angry you can't think what else to do, do nothing. Turn away, eat a cookie. Let it go. Talk to the kid later. It's okay. Your kid is not going to turn into a barbarian if you stop disciplining for a week.
After this week, work on things to do instead of spanking. You could first use your words "I am so angry now I could scream!" to convey your rage. Then do something to discipline/teach. Because it's not thr rage that caused the kid to learn. It is good for the kid to know what you are feeling and how you express those feelings healthily. But the rage is not what will make her stop tormenting the cat. Your alternative teaching/disciplining methods (and time) are what will do the trick.
Rage is not discipline. Work on expressing rage, work on disciplining bad behaviour. Separately.
Good luck! You can do this! (Mom of three year old who sometimes pushed and yanked her daughter.)
posted by Omnomnom at 12:48 AM on November 19, 2014 [10 favorites]
It isn't so much the spanking that's the problem as it is that you're angry when you do it. That leaves the potential open for you to escalate to doing some real harm when the child is older and, say, deliberately destroys one of your drums, then tells you he hates you and he's glad he ruined your drum! That's likely never going to happen, but it might, and that's why you're right when you say you need to learn how to head this off before it happens by learning to control your temper now.
And I applaud you for it. Heartily.
I'm not one to advise therapy very often, but because I was raised with a father who could explode into a maniac with very little provocation - and damn it hurt when he did - and also, more significantly, because I've felt anger that was close enough to being out of control that it scared me, I'd get someone who's used to dealing with this problem to help me out. I think when you get so angry so fast your adrenaline surges too, just like it does when you have a car accident or something traumatic happens, and it's hard to just settle down when your adrenaline is through the roof; it'll level out but it takes a little while and if the problem is anger, a person might hurt something or someone in the meantime.
So - what do you do? If I were in your boots I'd be inquiring about temper control classes or therapy specifically to address anger management. Every city has resources to help people who need help before they harm someone via domestic violence or child abuse, because there are a LOT of folks out there with the same problem you have. I used to do volunteer work with a children's nursery who took in kids, no questions asked, whenever their parents needed to get a break from the child in order to calm down themselves. I'm sure every city has a place like that - they usually call them crisis nurseries or childrens' crisis centers.
First, though, you need to - right now - write down this number and put it somewhere handy, like in your cell phone directory: 1-800-422-4453 - it's a national hotline for children and parents of children to call whenever the going gets seriously tough. It's 24 hours and it's free and they know what they're doing and they'll help.
Wishing you the best and, again, good for you.
posted by aryma at 1:07 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
And I applaud you for it. Heartily.
I'm not one to advise therapy very often, but because I was raised with a father who could explode into a maniac with very little provocation - and damn it hurt when he did - and also, more significantly, because I've felt anger that was close enough to being out of control that it scared me, I'd get someone who's used to dealing with this problem to help me out. I think when you get so angry so fast your adrenaline surges too, just like it does when you have a car accident or something traumatic happens, and it's hard to just settle down when your adrenaline is through the roof; it'll level out but it takes a little while and if the problem is anger, a person might hurt something or someone in the meantime.
So - what do you do? If I were in your boots I'd be inquiring about temper control classes or therapy specifically to address anger management. Every city has resources to help people who need help before they harm someone via domestic violence or child abuse, because there are a LOT of folks out there with the same problem you have. I used to do volunteer work with a children's nursery who took in kids, no questions asked, whenever their parents needed to get a break from the child in order to calm down themselves. I'm sure every city has a place like that - they usually call them crisis nurseries or childrens' crisis centers.
First, though, you need to - right now - write down this number and put it somewhere handy, like in your cell phone directory: 1-800-422-4453 - it's a national hotline for children and parents of children to call whenever the going gets seriously tough. It's 24 hours and it's free and they know what they're doing and they'll help.
Wishing you the best and, again, good for you.
posted by aryma at 1:07 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Are there any practices that can help me self-recognize when my temper flares up, before I spank Child? Has anyone ever found a mindset or something that works for them to stifle the compulsion to swat a thrashing child on the bottom? Obviously "don't leave drumsticks lying around" is relevant advice, and clearly my disciplinary strategy needs some tweaking as Child is getting older and more willful/less cooperative, but it's the temper issue within myself that I'm worried about.
("Don't leave drumsticks lying around" isn't really helpful advice, because if it wasn't the drumstick, it would be something else! )
The only thing I would add to what aryma has said above is that taking a stoic attitude to your child acting out really helps. Realising that "it's not about me" really helped with my own anger issues - I never hit my children but I know for a time I was often tempted. Sometimes got very cross with them indeed & I realised that I didn't like the person I was being as a parent and decided that I had to change, or else eventually I was going to end up hurting my own children which I never, ever wanted to do.
Children are always going to push parental boundaries to see what happens: It's what healthy, developing children do: they're testing the world to see if it reacts consistently. They're not deliberately challenging you in order to be as unpleasant to you as possible, even if it occasionally feels that way. They're challenging you because they're children trying to work out how to exist in a confusing world.
The second thing that helped me was accepting that if things had got to the point where my child was being actively oppositional then I had failed somewhere along the line. As a parent, outwitting a three year old really ought to be fairly straightforward, and if I accidentally backed us into a corner where I couldn't get my way without a full-on confrontation then it was my fault, not my child's. Every time I had to use some kind of physical force to make my eldest do what I needed / wanted him to do I tried to work backwards and see where things had gone wrong and whether I could have done things differently.
As an aside, we found with my first child that timeout really, really didn't work. Or at least the traditional "timeout by placing the child somewhere isolated with ever increasing penalties for trangression" approach didn't work. It didn't solve any of the actual behavoral problems that were leading to timeout in the first place. In fact it seemed to make them worse & as he got ever crosser about the enforced timeouts, which became a very blunt instrument for behavoral control. It may be that another approach to discipline will be more productive than dragging your child into timeout. We switched round completely to love-bombing him - giving as much positive attention as we could to the behaviours we wanted to see & almost completely ignoring any negative behaviour (beyond a cursory "don't do X, I don't like it when you do X.") unless it was actually dangerous or having an impact on someone else. When we had to "punish", we did our best to make the punishment be a natural consequence of his own actions, rather than some arbitrary punishment imposed by the parental Gods. Ultimately this really did seem to make a difference, even though it was very slow going!
Best of luck.
posted by pharm at 2:16 AM on November 19, 2014 [8 favorites]
("Don't leave drumsticks lying around" isn't really helpful advice, because if it wasn't the drumstick, it would be something else! )
The only thing I would add to what aryma has said above is that taking a stoic attitude to your child acting out really helps. Realising that "it's not about me" really helped with my own anger issues - I never hit my children but I know for a time I was often tempted. Sometimes got very cross with them indeed & I realised that I didn't like the person I was being as a parent and decided that I had to change, or else eventually I was going to end up hurting my own children which I never, ever wanted to do.
Children are always going to push parental boundaries to see what happens: It's what healthy, developing children do: they're testing the world to see if it reacts consistently. They're not deliberately challenging you in order to be as unpleasant to you as possible, even if it occasionally feels that way. They're challenging you because they're children trying to work out how to exist in a confusing world.
The second thing that helped me was accepting that if things had got to the point where my child was being actively oppositional then I had failed somewhere along the line. As a parent, outwitting a three year old really ought to be fairly straightforward, and if I accidentally backed us into a corner where I couldn't get my way without a full-on confrontation then it was my fault, not my child's. Every time I had to use some kind of physical force to make my eldest do what I needed / wanted him to do I tried to work backwards and see where things had gone wrong and whether I could have done things differently.
As an aside, we found with my first child that timeout really, really didn't work. Or at least the traditional "timeout by placing the child somewhere isolated with ever increasing penalties for trangression" approach didn't work. It didn't solve any of the actual behavoral problems that were leading to timeout in the first place. In fact it seemed to make them worse & as he got ever crosser about the enforced timeouts, which became a very blunt instrument for behavoral control. It may be that another approach to discipline will be more productive than dragging your child into timeout. We switched round completely to love-bombing him - giving as much positive attention as we could to the behaviours we wanted to see & almost completely ignoring any negative behaviour (beyond a cursory "don't do X, I don't like it when you do X.") unless it was actually dangerous or having an impact on someone else. When we had to "punish", we did our best to make the punishment be a natural consequence of his own actions, rather than some arbitrary punishment imposed by the parental Gods. Ultimately this really did seem to make a difference, even though it was very slow going!
Best of luck.
posted by pharm at 2:16 AM on November 19, 2014 [8 favorites]
I'm having problems controlling my temper, every so often, with my child, who is increasingly pressing my buttons. I would like advice on how to not forget myself and spank this child when my temper is piqued (usually by hitting, kicking, or spitting).
Has anyone ever found a mindset or something that works for them to stifle the compulsion to swat a thrashing child on the bottom?
I feel for you. My rage potential is huge.
I began swatting my son on his bottom occasionally, around that time when he was three, in response to his pressing my buttons. He hit me a LOT when he was about 3 to 4 yrs old and the impulse to hit back wsa often uncontrollable and my rage so immediate. So I became afraid of my own rage.
And I felt awful destructive guilt every time. Now he is six, and although I managed not to do it for almost 2 1/2 yrs, the temptation is still there and I suppose will always be there.
I did find some strategies and also experiences on what did not work that well but please don't feel I am judging you at all, as I have been there done that.
This is what I tried first: good old oldfashioned "count to ten" until the impulse passed. This worked fine sometimes.
If it did not, which was about half the time, simply because he just continued hitting me again and again, I would go and lock myself into the bathroom to think and reason with myself: I expect him not to hit others so if I hit him now I have no standing to tell him not to hit. I dont want to be a mother who hits her child.
But locking myself in did not work that well because after a while he would pound on the door and kick the door. And my rage would flare up again.
Finally I met with a parent counsellor who explained that locking myself in when he hits me was counterproductive - if eg I had a (verbal) fight with my husband how would I feel if he did that? Would it not just increase my own rage? Well, it would.
Her most helpful advice was that when I give him instructions and tell him what I want him to do (stop hitting, or go get dressed etc), to get down to his face level, speak firmly, to lower my voice (which in itself reqires my jaws to relax), not screaming in hysterical way or alternatively sugary sweet, turning a request it into a question either.
No need to demand eye contact, it is in fact counter productive - but lower yourself down so your bodies are the same height.
Use a firm and neutral tone of voice: "I do not want to be hit". And only that, no more (I used to rant at him for minutes on end in a high pitch, partly to keep myself from hitting). And then go into the next room, leave the door open, and NOT lock myself into the bathroom. When he follows, repeat , remember low voice, and only: I do not want to be hit. Funny enough this worked.
I think part was the effort on my side to remain in a calm, lower voice and body tonus - it was an effort which required me to focus on something else besides my rage.
I think her best point and most helpful to me was to realise a lot of times my instructions to him where worded in an ambigious, sometimes whiney way, and spoken in a high wheedling pitch: eg. why don't you go and pick up your toys, sweety? When really I meant: go up pick up your toys now.
Or classic: don't you want to got to bed now? Nope, of course not. Replace with: It is bedtime now, you will go to bed.
Or: go up pick up your toys now, please. In an even, lower tone of voice.
It makes such a big difference!
It was NOT a cure all, but we have signficantly less conflict because my comunication si clearer. If there is no option don't (inadvertantly) give the impression that there is one.
On the whole it helps me to remember to make clear statements, not sugarcoated requests.
We will go shopping now, please get dressed (he is six, so he can). I used to say: shall we go to the shops? He would reply: no, I would rather stay home. And the merry fight began because truly I was not asking him if he wanted to, but meant to go shopping regardless of whether he wanted to or not.
So now I just tell him. If he does not want to (which of course happens), I stick to my decision.
The counsellor I spoke to said that it is a common mistake to make a request of a child in form of a question because this is what we do as adults with each other and it is impolite among adults but for children a question is a question. So if I say "Don't oyu want to go home now?" the child will not hear - as an adult would: I am tired lets go -, but exactly that: don't you want to go home now? NO, he doesn't.
You can sum it up as: don't ask your child a question if you cannot live with the answer. Some days I truly don't care what we do, then I ask him and live with the answer. But if I know we are on a tight schedule, and I need to be on time, I do not ask but just tell him in a friendly but firm way. He might whine but I just repeat that this is what we do.
Another major thing that improved my relationship with him, was if I did lose it and yelled and perhaps swatted at him, I would apologise. Every time. I say: I am sorry I hit you. It was wrong. can you please forgive me? Or I am sorry I yelled, please can we make up. And miraculously we do. Every time!
I am NOT saying this makes it alright to hit him, not at all, but it helps us both to go on. Sometimes we both sob. But then move on without this huge ton of guilt around my neck.
And he actually now initiates it too, when he hits me or uses foul language.
I think with the apology, it is important to add that it was wrong - otherwise, it remains unclear what I apologise for.
Also around that time, when he was about 3 and I was looking for ways not to erupt in rage, I started to give him warning, which works really very well: I say: my green light is flashing*, and soon it will turn to orange. After that it turns red and mommy will erupt into a vulcano. Stop that now, and my light will return to green.
The mixed metaphor works well for us as he knows how traffic lights work, and loves movies on volcanoes but finds them scary too.
Now, after doing this for 3 years or so, it is sufficient if I say: my green light is flashing, or I say: it is orange going on red ... and he stops and says: is it back to green now?
(* I should add where we live, green light flashes before turnign orange, I am not sure if this is the case in other countries).
Re parent counselling or therapy: I shopped around very carefully. I did not want someone who did not share my general philosopy, but someone wiling to work with my current situation and how to improve it for me and my child. This counsellor actually visited our home and observed us at home, in a very non threatening way. Her observations of our patterns and comments were extremly helpful.
posted by 15L06 at 2:23 AM on November 19, 2014 [27 favorites]
Has anyone ever found a mindset or something that works for them to stifle the compulsion to swat a thrashing child on the bottom?
I feel for you. My rage potential is huge.
I began swatting my son on his bottom occasionally, around that time when he was three, in response to his pressing my buttons. He hit me a LOT when he was about 3 to 4 yrs old and the impulse to hit back wsa often uncontrollable and my rage so immediate. So I became afraid of my own rage.
And I felt awful destructive guilt every time. Now he is six, and although I managed not to do it for almost 2 1/2 yrs, the temptation is still there and I suppose will always be there.
I did find some strategies and also experiences on what did not work that well but please don't feel I am judging you at all, as I have been there done that.
This is what I tried first: good old oldfashioned "count to ten" until the impulse passed. This worked fine sometimes.
If it did not, which was about half the time, simply because he just continued hitting me again and again, I would go and lock myself into the bathroom to think and reason with myself: I expect him not to hit others so if I hit him now I have no standing to tell him not to hit. I dont want to be a mother who hits her child.
But locking myself in did not work that well because after a while he would pound on the door and kick the door. And my rage would flare up again.
Finally I met with a parent counsellor who explained that locking myself in when he hits me was counterproductive - if eg I had a (verbal) fight with my husband how would I feel if he did that? Would it not just increase my own rage? Well, it would.
Her most helpful advice was that when I give him instructions and tell him what I want him to do (stop hitting, or go get dressed etc), to get down to his face level, speak firmly, to lower my voice (which in itself reqires my jaws to relax), not screaming in hysterical way or alternatively sugary sweet, turning a request it into a question either.
No need to demand eye contact, it is in fact counter productive - but lower yourself down so your bodies are the same height.
Use a firm and neutral tone of voice: "I do not want to be hit". And only that, no more (I used to rant at him for minutes on end in a high pitch, partly to keep myself from hitting). And then go into the next room, leave the door open, and NOT lock myself into the bathroom. When he follows, repeat , remember low voice, and only: I do not want to be hit. Funny enough this worked.
I think part was the effort on my side to remain in a calm, lower voice and body tonus - it was an effort which required me to focus on something else besides my rage.
I think her best point and most helpful to me was to realise a lot of times my instructions to him where worded in an ambigious, sometimes whiney way, and spoken in a high wheedling pitch: eg. why don't you go and pick up your toys, sweety? When really I meant: go up pick up your toys now.
Or classic: don't you want to got to bed now? Nope, of course not. Replace with: It is bedtime now, you will go to bed.
Or: go up pick up your toys now, please. In an even, lower tone of voice.
It makes such a big difference!
It was NOT a cure all, but we have signficantly less conflict because my comunication si clearer. If there is no option don't (inadvertantly) give the impression that there is one.
On the whole it helps me to remember to make clear statements, not sugarcoated requests.
We will go shopping now, please get dressed (he is six, so he can). I used to say: shall we go to the shops? He would reply: no, I would rather stay home. And the merry fight began because truly I was not asking him if he wanted to, but meant to go shopping regardless of whether he wanted to or not.
So now I just tell him. If he does not want to (which of course happens), I stick to my decision.
The counsellor I spoke to said that it is a common mistake to make a request of a child in form of a question because this is what we do as adults with each other and it is impolite among adults but for children a question is a question. So if I say "Don't oyu want to go home now?" the child will not hear - as an adult would: I am tired lets go -, but exactly that: don't you want to go home now? NO, he doesn't.
You can sum it up as: don't ask your child a question if you cannot live with the answer. Some days I truly don't care what we do, then I ask him and live with the answer. But if I know we are on a tight schedule, and I need to be on time, I do not ask but just tell him in a friendly but firm way. He might whine but I just repeat that this is what we do.
Another major thing that improved my relationship with him, was if I did lose it and yelled and perhaps swatted at him, I would apologise. Every time. I say: I am sorry I hit you. It was wrong. can you please forgive me? Or I am sorry I yelled, please can we make up. And miraculously we do. Every time!
I am NOT saying this makes it alright to hit him, not at all, but it helps us both to go on. Sometimes we both sob. But then move on without this huge ton of guilt around my neck.
And he actually now initiates it too, when he hits me or uses foul language.
I think with the apology, it is important to add that it was wrong - otherwise, it remains unclear what I apologise for.
Also around that time, when he was about 3 and I was looking for ways not to erupt in rage, I started to give him warning, which works really very well: I say: my green light is flashing*, and soon it will turn to orange. After that it turns red and mommy will erupt into a vulcano. Stop that now, and my light will return to green.
The mixed metaphor works well for us as he knows how traffic lights work, and loves movies on volcanoes but finds them scary too.
Now, after doing this for 3 years or so, it is sufficient if I say: my green light is flashing, or I say: it is orange going on red ... and he stops and says: is it back to green now?
(* I should add where we live, green light flashes before turnign orange, I am not sure if this is the case in other countries).
Re parent counselling or therapy: I shopped around very carefully. I did not want someone who did not share my general philosopy, but someone wiling to work with my current situation and how to improve it for me and my child. This counsellor actually visited our home and observed us at home, in a very non threatening way. Her observations of our patterns and comments were extremly helpful.
posted by 15L06 at 2:23 AM on November 19, 2014 [27 favorites]
Hello! I know how you feel. We're facing a similar challenge with our spirited and energetic four year old, who is very talented at driving us up the fucking wall, and isn't afraid to express his emotions physically :-)
Something that has helped us immensely is the approach outlined in this book: Non Violent Resistance by Haim Omer.
It's a really interesting study of parent / child dynamics based on the principles used by Gandhi. It gives you practical advice on how to avoid escalating confrontations, so you can defuse these awful bombs before they blow up in your face... if you can get the hang of it, you should be able to avoid the type of situation that calls forth your spanky anger.
It hasn't fixed us completely, but it has made a tremendous difference for all of us over the past few months. Recommended reading!
Good luck, and good on you for taking this on. It ain't easy, is it?
posted by ZipRibbons at 2:34 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Something that has helped us immensely is the approach outlined in this book: Non Violent Resistance by Haim Omer.
It's a really interesting study of parent / child dynamics based on the principles used by Gandhi. It gives you practical advice on how to avoid escalating confrontations, so you can defuse these awful bombs before they blow up in your face... if you can get the hang of it, you should be able to avoid the type of situation that calls forth your spanky anger.
It hasn't fixed us completely, but it has made a tremendous difference for all of us over the past few months. Recommended reading!
Good luck, and good on you for taking this on. It ain't easy, is it?
posted by ZipRibbons at 2:34 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
I've never, ever hit my kids. I have shouted at them though, which I recently learned is pretty much just as bad.
I bought a pack of green stick on dots. I put them around the house, at eye level - on the corner of the TV, on the fridge, on the monitor, on the bathroom mirror.
The dots provide a constant nudge - are you calm? Are you collected? Are you freaking out about nothing? Are you being a fucking grown up, let alone a loving and supporting father? They're five and seven, man, how bad can it really be?
A couple of times I've started to shout but there's always a green dot someplace. That was...I dunno, six or seven months ago? I hardly ever raise my voice now, and if I start to, it feels grossly out of character, which is good, I think.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 2:40 AM on November 19, 2014 [16 favorites]
I bought a pack of green stick on dots. I put them around the house, at eye level - on the corner of the TV, on the fridge, on the monitor, on the bathroom mirror.
The dots provide a constant nudge - are you calm? Are you collected? Are you freaking out about nothing? Are you being a fucking grown up, let alone a loving and supporting father? They're five and seven, man, how bad can it really be?
A couple of times I've started to shout but there's always a green dot someplace. That was...I dunno, six or seven months ago? I hardly ever raise my voice now, and if I start to, it feels grossly out of character, which is good, I think.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 2:40 AM on November 19, 2014 [16 favorites]
I want to plug ahaparenting.com. I bet part of the frustration you are both experiencing comes from trying to use punishment. It isn't necessary. You can have a well-disciplined kid without it.
I tried to explain this to somebody recently and they didn't really get it. "But what do you do if she does something bad?" Well, she's a kid; of course she's going to do irritating stuff -- but the mindset that the kid is "bad" or wrong or deliberately being a pain is not a useful one. I searched my mind for a problem we'd had recently and the most awful recent transgression I could come up with is that she (7) can't seem to use straws without littering them around the house. I have asked her not to do this many times. She is co-operative about coming when called to pick up an errant straw. Still it is too many straws. I am wrong for giving a child unfettered access to straws. Solution: "If I have to keep nagging you about this, I am not going to buy more straws."
Also check out Faber and Mazlish's books, which will do a lot to help re-frame "bad" behaviour and what the required response to it is.
There is lots of good advice here already. He doesn't escalate because I don't, Your kid is not going to turn into a barbarian if you stop disciplining for a week. Yes! Yes! Just walk away if you need to. Nothing bad will come of it -- actually, it might be a tactical advantage; the odd time I threw my hands up in despair and walked off shaken, my daughter was shaken, and rapidly changed her mood and focused on making things right with Mummy again. I would not deliberately withdraw affection, but the odd "This is too much. Mum needs a break" is very dramatic to small children and draws attention to the situation constructively rather than frighteningly.
When you and Child are both miserable something should change quickly, and it is totally okay to make that thing a positive thing. It is okay to abruptly stop a dramatic scene with plans to eat chips and watch cartoons; it isn't reinforcing bad behaviour, it is acknowledging that everybody involved needs a break, a different sort of time-out, before addressing the problem. I have a personal policy of sitting on adult irritations for 24h before addressing them, because sleep and time tend to either reveal them as trivia -- or if they're not trivia, it gives me time to think of a good way to address solutions. It means no fights with adults. The same theory works well with kids. Who require a weird balancing act of being partially treated like small adults and partially treated like infants.
Also at 3 I was still going down the list one has in mind with infants: are we hungry? Tired? Needing a cuddle? Too hot/cold/etc? (Still useful at 7. Still useful for me at 39 if I am honest about my own frailties.) I found "acting out" occurring outside of those things to be so rare as to be not worth mentioning. If bedtime melt-downs are a thing, go into bedtime with your expectations that the kid is tired and is going to behave like a tired kid, and do some efficient coddling (good behaviour begets good behaviour) to get through it.
And thanks for this question, because I'm sure I'm not the only person who will find it useful to have a re-think through this stuff.
posted by kmennie at 2:43 AM on November 19, 2014 [8 favorites]
I tried to explain this to somebody recently and they didn't really get it. "But what do you do if she does something bad?" Well, she's a kid; of course she's going to do irritating stuff -- but the mindset that the kid is "bad" or wrong or deliberately being a pain is not a useful one. I searched my mind for a problem we'd had recently and the most awful recent transgression I could come up with is that she (7) can't seem to use straws without littering them around the house. I have asked her not to do this many times. She is co-operative about coming when called to pick up an errant straw. Still it is too many straws. I am wrong for giving a child unfettered access to straws. Solution: "If I have to keep nagging you about this, I am not going to buy more straws."
Also check out Faber and Mazlish's books, which will do a lot to help re-frame "bad" behaviour and what the required response to it is.
There is lots of good advice here already. He doesn't escalate because I don't, Your kid is not going to turn into a barbarian if you stop disciplining for a week. Yes! Yes! Just walk away if you need to. Nothing bad will come of it -- actually, it might be a tactical advantage; the odd time I threw my hands up in despair and walked off shaken, my daughter was shaken, and rapidly changed her mood and focused on making things right with Mummy again. I would not deliberately withdraw affection, but the odd "This is too much. Mum needs a break" is very dramatic to small children and draws attention to the situation constructively rather than frighteningly.
When you and Child are both miserable something should change quickly, and it is totally okay to make that thing a positive thing. It is okay to abruptly stop a dramatic scene with plans to eat chips and watch cartoons; it isn't reinforcing bad behaviour, it is acknowledging that everybody involved needs a break, a different sort of time-out, before addressing the problem. I have a personal policy of sitting on adult irritations for 24h before addressing them, because sleep and time tend to either reveal them as trivia -- or if they're not trivia, it gives me time to think of a good way to address solutions. It means no fights with adults. The same theory works well with kids. Who require a weird balancing act of being partially treated like small adults and partially treated like infants.
Also at 3 I was still going down the list one has in mind with infants: are we hungry? Tired? Needing a cuddle? Too hot/cold/etc? (Still useful at 7. Still useful for me at 39 if I am honest about my own frailties.) I found "acting out" occurring outside of those things to be so rare as to be not worth mentioning. If bedtime melt-downs are a thing, go into bedtime with your expectations that the kid is tired and is going to behave like a tired kid, and do some efficient coddling (good behaviour begets good behaviour) to get through it.
And thanks for this question, because I'm sure I'm not the only person who will find it useful to have a re-think through this stuff.
posted by kmennie at 2:43 AM on November 19, 2014 [8 favorites]
When my kid gets pointlessly rebellious and obnoxious, holding my shit together long enough to express empathy for how angry and sad he seems to be feeling and asking how we can fix it is a massively effective thing to do about 90% of the time.
The obnoxiousness often seems to be coming from a place of anxiety, tiredness, or hunger (same way it does for adults, but without the coping skills that we develop). In not so many words, he's saying "how I'm behaving right now is how terrible I feel on the inside." It's been really useful for me to reframe his behavior this way.
That said, we were both home sick recently and he hit me in anger, and I totally wept and yelled terrible things and eventually put us both in time out. And sometimes he's not ready to deal with feelings and steamrolls right over my attempts to ease him off the cliff. So it doesn't work every day. But it works often enough to be self-perpetuating. YKMV.
posted by tchemgrrl at 4:03 AM on November 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
The obnoxiousness often seems to be coming from a place of anxiety, tiredness, or hunger (same way it does for adults, but without the coping skills that we develop). In not so many words, he's saying "how I'm behaving right now is how terrible I feel on the inside." It's been really useful for me to reframe his behavior this way.
That said, we were both home sick recently and he hit me in anger, and I totally wept and yelled terrible things and eventually put us both in time out. And sometimes he's not ready to deal with feelings and steamrolls right over my attempts to ease him off the cliff. So it doesn't work every day. But it works often enough to be self-perpetuating. YKMV.
posted by tchemgrrl at 4:03 AM on November 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
We have a consistent time-out policy; Child spends three minutes in their room for most serious offenses
Sauce, goose, gander. Next time your own temper flares into violence, you get to spend 1 minute alone in your room for every year of your age.
Little kids have a totally exaggerated concept of fairness and you might find that this appeals to yours.
And yes, some form of attention paid to anger management as a goal in itself would definitely help you. If you're going to hit somebody, never do it angry. Anger ruins your judgment and screws up your aim.
posted by flabdablet at 4:44 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Sauce, goose, gander. Next time your own temper flares into violence, you get to spend 1 minute alone in your room for every year of your age.
Little kids have a totally exaggerated concept of fairness and you might find that this appeals to yours.
And yes, some form of attention paid to anger management as a goal in itself would definitely help you. If you're going to hit somebody, never do it angry. Anger ruins your judgment and screws up your aim.
posted by flabdablet at 4:44 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Usually I kind of become Robot Mom, this nearly bored machine whose only instruction is 'whrr whrr get child to room whrr whrr '.
In very bad moments Mr. Llama and I will hand off with 'I can't take this anymore' and the other person steps in, without question, without debate, without anything. We know what 'I can't take this anymore means'--it means we're on the cusp of regret. If you have someone who can fill that role that is a lifesaver, not only because it pretends you from doing things like having a tantrum in front of your kid, it's helpful because it means someone knows you're a human and feels compassion for you even as you feel like an ugly raving beast.
If you are a single parent, maybe try to imagine the understanding that other parents have for your situation and know even if you don't have the luxury of hand-off, people do understand and feel sympathy and you're not a beast. I feel like single parents do not get nearly enough credit for having to do that alone and we should have a national holiday to celebrate them.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:48 AM on November 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
In very bad moments Mr. Llama and I will hand off with 'I can't take this anymore' and the other person steps in, without question, without debate, without anything. We know what 'I can't take this anymore means'--it means we're on the cusp of regret. If you have someone who can fill that role that is a lifesaver, not only because it pretends you from doing things like having a tantrum in front of your kid, it's helpful because it means someone knows you're a human and feels compassion for you even as you feel like an ugly raving beast.
If you are a single parent, maybe try to imagine the understanding that other parents have for your situation and know even if you don't have the luxury of hand-off, people do understand and feel sympathy and you're not a beast. I feel like single parents do not get nearly enough credit for having to do that alone and we should have a national holiday to celebrate them.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:48 AM on November 19, 2014 [5 favorites]
Some tools for the kid toolbox, to help deal with their anger constructively:
1. Talk through what's going to happen, and repeat yourself a lot. This works best well before bedtime... "Now we're going to draw a picture, then we'll put all the crayons in the box, then we're going to go upstairs and choose some pyjamas... We're drawing a picture. When we've done the picture we're going to put the crayons in the box. Then we're going to go and choose some pyjamas ... Now the picture is done! Let's put the crayons in the box....". Even if you've hit bedtime and things are escalating, reciting the Order Of Events is a good calming mantra for both parties, although I think you have to start before full on meltdown mode has commenced. Just the calming sound of you reciting this list is pretty good kid magic.
2. Talk about where you are going and what exciting things are there, instead of what they need to stop doing. So "Sally, what colour PJs would you like to wear to bed tonight? Can you go and pick some out?".
3. Name the emotions. This sounds silly but it seems to be actual child magic. Like "You are feeling mad because you wanted to play with your blocks some more". I have said this to a kid and had them look me in the eye as if they were thinking "Why so I am!" and then calm right down from the proto-tantrum.
4. Switch the context. Take the kid outside briefly, or take them to look out of the window, or move to a different room, or hand them off to someone else. Go somewhere it is colder or warmer or lighter or darker or just different somehow.
Pro tip: You can play some or all of these tricks ON YOURSELF when you are mad.
posted by emilyw at 4:51 AM on November 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
1. Talk through what's going to happen, and repeat yourself a lot. This works best well before bedtime... "Now we're going to draw a picture, then we'll put all the crayons in the box, then we're going to go upstairs and choose some pyjamas... We're drawing a picture. When we've done the picture we're going to put the crayons in the box. Then we're going to go and choose some pyjamas ... Now the picture is done! Let's put the crayons in the box....". Even if you've hit bedtime and things are escalating, reciting the Order Of Events is a good calming mantra for both parties, although I think you have to start before full on meltdown mode has commenced. Just the calming sound of you reciting this list is pretty good kid magic.
2. Talk about where you are going and what exciting things are there, instead of what they need to stop doing. So "Sally, what colour PJs would you like to wear to bed tonight? Can you go and pick some out?".
3. Name the emotions. This sounds silly but it seems to be actual child magic. Like "You are feeling mad because you wanted to play with your blocks some more". I have said this to a kid and had them look me in the eye as if they were thinking "Why so I am!" and then calm right down from the proto-tantrum.
4. Switch the context. Take the kid outside briefly, or take them to look out of the window, or move to a different room, or hand them off to someone else. Go somewhere it is colder or warmer or lighter or darker or just different somehow.
Pro tip: You can play some or all of these tricks ON YOURSELF when you are mad.
posted by emilyw at 4:51 AM on November 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
First off, you sound perfectly normal to me. I was also a hit as a child and I now have a very low threshold for anyone, even a child, hitting me, even by accident. I go from zero to full rage immediately. The first step is understanding the why of it. Once I realized where my extreme reaction came from, it gave me a chance to deal with it. I now leave the room and give myself a time out when it happens, avoiding hitting back. I also put my children to bed before they get horrible and, if I had your cat problem, I would lock up the cat in the evenings. Basically, set yourself up for success and then take a time out when it fails (time out before hitting back).
posted by myselfasme at 4:54 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by myselfasme at 4:54 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
There's lots of good advice here. Another great resource is Parenting From the Inside Out, which helps you address what's going on for you in those challenging moments, especially if you weren't raised with good models for how to parent mindfully.
posted by judith at 5:08 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by judith at 5:08 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
My mother had many faults as a parent, but she knew how to discipline us. She did this absolutely terrifying silence. If either I or Sissy were acting out, she'd go stony-silent and the fingers would come up. One. Two. Three. Don't let her get to five. I have no idea what would have happened when she got to five. It rarely got beyond three.
If we were in public, Dad would take the truculent child out to the car and let her freak out with no audience. He'd read a newspaper while the tantrum was thrown. If we were home, we'd often find ourselves in an empty room as the others went where we weren't.
So one thing to remember is that your daughter is three, and while three year olds can be wily and conniving, they're not really trying to piss you off. Don't attach adult importance to toddler bad behavior.
Have a rote, predictable response to bad behavior.
1. Start counting with the fingers.
2. Practice a scary silence.
3. Say in a voice devoid of emotion, "go to your room."
4. If the child doesn't go, YOU get up and go to YOUR room. (Turning off the TV in the process.)
5. If you're in public, abandon whatever it is you're doing and head for the exit. Movie, groceries, etc. It will SUUUUUCCCCKKK. But with luck, you'll only ever need to do it a few times in your life.
You have to suck the oxygen out of the situation to put the fire out. Getting a rise out of you is the POINT of tantrums, hitting and spitting. Not reacting will teach your daughter that these behaviors will not achive anything.
Ask for your partners help in this, if that person is in your life. "Hey Pat, I can't deal anymore can you please bathe Chloe?"
Do try the resources listed here. Try to get into a head space where you're not exhausted and she's not exhausted to the point of brattiness, neither one of you are making good decisions then.
Hang in there. Parents aren't perfect, it's a process. You know that swatting doesn't work and that it has the opposite effect insofar as squelching violent behavior. Learn new ways of dealing, and use them instead.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:28 AM on November 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
If we were in public, Dad would take the truculent child out to the car and let her freak out with no audience. He'd read a newspaper while the tantrum was thrown. If we were home, we'd often find ourselves in an empty room as the others went where we weren't.
So one thing to remember is that your daughter is three, and while three year olds can be wily and conniving, they're not really trying to piss you off. Don't attach adult importance to toddler bad behavior.
Have a rote, predictable response to bad behavior.
1. Start counting with the fingers.
2. Practice a scary silence.
3. Say in a voice devoid of emotion, "go to your room."
4. If the child doesn't go, YOU get up and go to YOUR room. (Turning off the TV in the process.)
5. If you're in public, abandon whatever it is you're doing and head for the exit. Movie, groceries, etc. It will SUUUUUCCCCKKK. But with luck, you'll only ever need to do it a few times in your life.
You have to suck the oxygen out of the situation to put the fire out. Getting a rise out of you is the POINT of tantrums, hitting and spitting. Not reacting will teach your daughter that these behaviors will not achive anything.
Ask for your partners help in this, if that person is in your life. "Hey Pat, I can't deal anymore can you please bathe Chloe?"
Do try the resources listed here. Try to get into a head space where you're not exhausted and she's not exhausted to the point of brattiness, neither one of you are making good decisions then.
Hang in there. Parents aren't perfect, it's a process. You know that swatting doesn't work and that it has the opposite effect insofar as squelching violent behavior. Learn new ways of dealing, and use them instead.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:28 AM on November 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
Our son is 10 now... he has Aspberger's ... which if you didn't know is an autism spectrum disorder (ASD) that is characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction and nonverbal communication, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests.
When he was 3 or 4 & didn't communicate well, or didn't seem to listen well... i spanked him. I did it moreso out of my own frustration than anything else. In that one moment i looked into his eyes at his fear of his consequences, i realized, that this memory would possibly/likely stick with him for the rest of his life...or at least be remembered for awhile.
I never wanted to be that kind of father... & more importantly, i wanted to help my son, NOT hurt him.
I tried the opposite... positive conditioning... excessive praise for the good behavior. Rewards when he made the right choices, etc. The consequence of the bad behaviors was taking away things he loved (TV, Toys, & later in life, his ability to go outside & play). In addition, instead of a formal "time out".... it's more like, "stay in your room & think about X... & I will come in to talk to you about it soon".... It worked almost immediately.
Every kid is different. But our son is blossoming now... still occasionally with his issues, but we're working through them.
Yes, i was spanked when i was a kid...doesn't make it right ... or wrong... it's just how it was.
Now, this works best for us. Take a breathe, during your son's time alone (or time out)... take that same time to reflect ... try turning the momentum from negative to positive....
The fact that you're concerned & asking for advice proofs you heart & intentions are in the right place.... you will find what works for you both.
posted by foodybat at 5:34 AM on November 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
When he was 3 or 4 & didn't communicate well, or didn't seem to listen well... i spanked him. I did it moreso out of my own frustration than anything else. In that one moment i looked into his eyes at his fear of his consequences, i realized, that this memory would possibly/likely stick with him for the rest of his life...or at least be remembered for awhile.
I never wanted to be that kind of father... & more importantly, i wanted to help my son, NOT hurt him.
I tried the opposite... positive conditioning... excessive praise for the good behavior. Rewards when he made the right choices, etc. The consequence of the bad behaviors was taking away things he loved (TV, Toys, & later in life, his ability to go outside & play). In addition, instead of a formal "time out".... it's more like, "stay in your room & think about X... & I will come in to talk to you about it soon".... It worked almost immediately.
Every kid is different. But our son is blossoming now... still occasionally with his issues, but we're working through them.
Yes, i was spanked when i was a kid...doesn't make it right ... or wrong... it's just how it was.
Now, this works best for us. Take a breathe, during your son's time alone (or time out)... take that same time to reflect ... try turning the momentum from negative to positive....
The fact that you're concerned & asking for advice proofs you heart & intentions are in the right place.... you will find what works for you both.
posted by foodybat at 5:34 AM on November 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
Oh man, I'm sorry you guys are going through this, I know it's a tough situation.
I was spanked too as a child, and, like kmennie said above if I get hit I go to full rage pretty quickly too. What stops me from spanking? I remember the feelings I had when I was spanked, clear as day, all these years later. The betrayal, the loss of trust. How that lask of trust carried forward into my relationship with my parents through the teenage years (I never confided in them) and into adulthood (feeling that I had pretty much raised myself, and feeling pretty lonely). When my child was born and I was telling my husband why I had made a commitment within myself never to hit my child, I explained it him as "I am laying a foundation of respect with him today not for our relationship today, but for the relationship he and I will have when he's 25". When I get good and angry, when I get tempted to spank, I remind myself of that commitment I've made to him and myself.
That's all well and good, but what about the practical aspects of disciplining when you're angry? Mostly I am very upfront about my feelings. I'm human, I'm no perfect parent or perfect person, and I feel I owe it to my child to let him see that, to get to know the real me. In your drumstick example I would have verbalized "Ow! That hurt a lot! I don't like being hit! Please do not hit me!"; from there it would have gone one of two ways - if I'd already given a warning then a time-out would have been enforced. If not I'd have said "Now, I've asked you three times to go to bed. You are not doing good listening. What happens when you don't do good listening?" (The response here is always that I will start yelling, and he will start crying and the whole situation will escalate to everyone being even more unhappy. At that point he usually settles down). Once we make it to calmer waters we talk about what happened (which starts with "What happened? Mommy was yelling at you. Why did Mommy yell at you? Etc.)
The point I'm trying to make is we try to keep our communication very open. We talk about the ugly things. We say thank you when kiddo has listened well. We recap our day. I apologize to kiddo if I've gone off the rails, and I let him express his feelings about it ("you yelled at me and I didn't like it"). I acknowledge those feelings even if I feel like I was somehow in the right. I remember that there are two sides to every story and if he was acting out its because I missed a cue earlier where he was telling me he was starting to feel out of control. I remind myself that only one of us is the adult in the situation, and like it or not it's me so I'd better effing act like it. All of this takes practice but it absolutely can be done.
I second the recommendation above for Aha parenting. I also like to read Janet Lansbury and other blogs on the topic of positive parenting or gentle discipline (gentle discipline does not mean no discipline!).
Good for you for asking this question.
posted by vignettist at 5:57 AM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
I was spanked too as a child, and, like kmennie said above if I get hit I go to full rage pretty quickly too. What stops me from spanking? I remember the feelings I had when I was spanked, clear as day, all these years later. The betrayal, the loss of trust. How that lask of trust carried forward into my relationship with my parents through the teenage years (I never confided in them) and into adulthood (feeling that I had pretty much raised myself, and feeling pretty lonely). When my child was born and I was telling my husband why I had made a commitment within myself never to hit my child, I explained it him as "I am laying a foundation of respect with him today not for our relationship today, but for the relationship he and I will have when he's 25". When I get good and angry, when I get tempted to spank, I remind myself of that commitment I've made to him and myself.
That's all well and good, but what about the practical aspects of disciplining when you're angry? Mostly I am very upfront about my feelings. I'm human, I'm no perfect parent or perfect person, and I feel I owe it to my child to let him see that, to get to know the real me. In your drumstick example I would have verbalized "Ow! That hurt a lot! I don't like being hit! Please do not hit me!"; from there it would have gone one of two ways - if I'd already given a warning then a time-out would have been enforced. If not I'd have said "Now, I've asked you three times to go to bed. You are not doing good listening. What happens when you don't do good listening?" (The response here is always that I will start yelling, and he will start crying and the whole situation will escalate to everyone being even more unhappy. At that point he usually settles down). Once we make it to calmer waters we talk about what happened (which starts with "What happened? Mommy was yelling at you. Why did Mommy yell at you? Etc.)
The point I'm trying to make is we try to keep our communication very open. We talk about the ugly things. We say thank you when kiddo has listened well. We recap our day. I apologize to kiddo if I've gone off the rails, and I let him express his feelings about it ("you yelled at me and I didn't like it"). I acknowledge those feelings even if I feel like I was somehow in the right. I remember that there are two sides to every story and if he was acting out its because I missed a cue earlier where he was telling me he was starting to feel out of control. I remind myself that only one of us is the adult in the situation, and like it or not it's me so I'd better effing act like it. All of this takes practice but it absolutely can be done.
I second the recommendation above for Aha parenting. I also like to read Janet Lansbury and other blogs on the topic of positive parenting or gentle discipline (gentle discipline does not mean no discipline!).
Good for you for asking this question.
posted by vignettist at 5:57 AM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Just popping in to recommend the book Running on Empty: Overcoming Childhood Emotional Neglect. It's a great read and can help put into perspective your childhood experience and how it may be affecting your coping mechanisms and childrearing today. One of the parental types described in the book is "well-meaning but neglected themselves." It's a great, quick read, and provides hypothetical situations that can help you see healthy and unhealthy patterns.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:35 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by melissasaurus at 6:35 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
I feel you on the rage. I don't have it quite as bad as you do, but that animal instinct is down there.
Things that have worked for us:
- Name emotions, CONSTANTLY. Good ones as well as bad ones. Both in books and in life.
- After your child loses her shit, and has calmed down again, talk him back through it. "You were really mad! Why were you mad? Oh, you were mad because you didn't want to go to bed? Maybe next time you could say, 'Mommy, I do not want to go to bed and I am mad!' What will you say next time?"
- Let your child know that it's ok to express anger verbally, and don't get mad at her for doing so. Sympathize, even as you refuse to give in on (e.g.) putting pajamas on. "You're mad because you don't want to put your pajamas on. I don't want to put your pajamas on either. But sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do, and it's bedtime. So, pajamas."
- Express your own feelings verbally. It's actually really shocking how saying out loud "I am getting really frustrated because you are not cooperating." can defuse your own brain a bit. Try it a few times and you'll find yourself annoyed that grownups can't ever manage to do this.
- Apologize if you fuck up. "Daddy used a mean voice. Was that nice? Should I have done that?" "If you do something that hurts someone, even if you didn't mean to, you apologize! So, I'm sorry for using a mean voice." Don't grovel - just model a simple straightforward apology, explain why, and throw in the implication that you will expect this of child too.
And, uh, good luck. We're struggling with our four year old. It's hard.
posted by telepanda at 7:13 AM on November 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
Things that have worked for us:
- Name emotions, CONSTANTLY. Good ones as well as bad ones. Both in books and in life.
- After your child loses her shit, and has calmed down again, talk him back through it. "You were really mad! Why were you mad? Oh, you were mad because you didn't want to go to bed? Maybe next time you could say, 'Mommy, I do not want to go to bed and I am mad!' What will you say next time?"
- Let your child know that it's ok to express anger verbally, and don't get mad at her for doing so. Sympathize, even as you refuse to give in on (e.g.) putting pajamas on. "You're mad because you don't want to put your pajamas on. I don't want to put your pajamas on either. But sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do, and it's bedtime. So, pajamas."
- Express your own feelings verbally. It's actually really shocking how saying out loud "I am getting really frustrated because you are not cooperating." can defuse your own brain a bit. Try it a few times and you'll find yourself annoyed that grownups can't ever manage to do this.
- Apologize if you fuck up. "Daddy used a mean voice. Was that nice? Should I have done that?" "If you do something that hurts someone, even if you didn't mean to, you apologize! So, I'm sorry for using a mean voice." Don't grovel - just model a simple straightforward apology, explain why, and throw in the implication that you will expect this of child too.
And, uh, good luck. We're struggling with our four year old. It's hard.
posted by telepanda at 7:13 AM on November 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
Are there any practices that can help me self-recognize when my temper flares up, before I spank Child?
Well, what keeps you from hitting other people when they make you mad? Use that.
While there is debate on the harm vs. benefit of spanking children, I think almost everyone would agree that you shouldn't administer physical punishments while you yourself are still angry because that can escalate too easily. So at a minimum, please try to switch to saying "you're getting a spanking for that!" (and then administering the spanking later, after you've cooled down) instead of continuing to smack your kid in the heat of the moment.
posted by Jacqueline at 7:21 AM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Well, what keeps you from hitting other people when they make you mad? Use that.
While there is debate on the harm vs. benefit of spanking children, I think almost everyone would agree that you shouldn't administer physical punishments while you yourself are still angry because that can escalate too easily. So at a minimum, please try to switch to saying "you're getting a spanking for that!" (and then administering the spanking later, after you've cooled down) instead of continuing to smack your kid in the heat of the moment.
posted by Jacqueline at 7:21 AM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
O yes, the other thing is to ask yourself every single time you react to something your child does: Am I doing this because I think it will help my child learn, or am I doing this to get revenge? If you're honest with yourself you'll find that sometimes it really is you reacting out of your own embarrassment and frustration, and wanting to hurt them for it.
It's kind of a shameful thing to realize that you are trying to hurt your child in revenge, but it definitely helps me put the brakes on sometimes.
posted by telepanda at 7:31 AM on November 19, 2014
It's kind of a shameful thing to realize that you are trying to hurt your child in revenge, but it definitely helps me put the brakes on sometimes.
posted by telepanda at 7:31 AM on November 19, 2014
Not a spanker but I can totally sympathize with that end-of-the-rope transaction/desperation. One thing that has helped me is the realization that whatever is happening can wait ten seconds, or a minute, or whatever, until I get some sort of thought out control over what is going on. It has the benefit of allowing you to get hold of yourself, and evaluate what is the appropriate thing to do, and the even better benefit of modeling that behavior for the kid. Take a moment to gather yourself.
Good on you for being mindful of this.
posted by dirtdirt at 7:59 AM on November 19, 2014
Good on you for being mindful of this.
posted by dirtdirt at 7:59 AM on November 19, 2014
I stop myself from spanking my children by recognizing that I didn't want to hit them to teach them a lesson, but I wanted to hit them because I was angry. Once I remembered that I was about to react in a way that would be completely unacceptable to another adult, I can redirect my anger.
I also had a mental exercise - I would imagine myself walloping my child, just hitting them as hard as I could. Then I would try to picture how they would look at me, with fear and betrayal because the person who is supposed to be their protector has purposefully hurt them. It's a horrible image and a horrible fear, but again, it worked.
I sympathize. I am convinced that parental love is so strong because if we were not completely and irrationally committed to our spawn, we would have left them on the curb under a "Free Baby" sign. I still remember how much it hurt, not physically but emotionally, when my parents spanked me. Thank you for asking for help. You are a good parent.
posted by bibliowench at 8:03 AM on November 19, 2014
I also had a mental exercise - I would imagine myself walloping my child, just hitting them as hard as I could. Then I would try to picture how they would look at me, with fear and betrayal because the person who is supposed to be their protector has purposefully hurt them. It's a horrible image and a horrible fear, but again, it worked.
I sympathize. I am convinced that parental love is so strong because if we were not completely and irrationally committed to our spawn, we would have left them on the curb under a "Free Baby" sign. I still remember how much it hurt, not physically but emotionally, when my parents spanked me. Thank you for asking for help. You are a good parent.
posted by bibliowench at 8:03 AM on November 19, 2014
This is tough and my three year old is quite well behaved, so I'm not sure how much my advice will help, but I try, as much as possible, to catch things before they get out of hand. We know that the Lurglette will be a true pain in the ass if she's too tired when we try to get her to go to bed, so if we think she's going to be extra tired we start the whole going-to-bed process early. Keeping things from escalating is incredibly important. It's much easier to deal with a kid who is grouchy now than the one who is really ticked off in 15 minutes.
We use time-outs liberally (just one minute). We are also prepared to put each other (or ourselves) in time-out if we think it's necessary (I time-outed myself once. A combination of a bad day at work and a few other things and I was at the end of my rope. I yelled at the cat and then snapped at my daughter and then said "Okay, daddy has to go into time-out" and I went into the other room and sat down for one minute).
A friend of mine used to do five push-ups if they were angry with their child. This would not only calm them down (and exhaust them. They weren't very good at push-ups), but sometimes it would calm down their little darling who thought that mommy doing push-ups was really strange and funny.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 10:06 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
We use time-outs liberally (just one minute). We are also prepared to put each other (or ourselves) in time-out if we think it's necessary (I time-outed myself once. A combination of a bad day at work and a few other things and I was at the end of my rope. I yelled at the cat and then snapped at my daughter and then said "Okay, daddy has to go into time-out" and I went into the other room and sat down for one minute).
A friend of mine used to do five push-ups if they were angry with their child. This would not only calm them down (and exhaust them. They weren't very good at push-ups), but sometimes it would calm down their little darling who thought that mommy doing push-ups was really strange and funny.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 10:06 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
I got an easy and effective fix for this.
Understand that you can't hold two different thoughts in your head at one time. So when you feel angry at your child, put another thought in there.
What I did was show love by hugging and praising my child. It's a feeling/thought that I love and would enjoy doing anytime I can. So when I was overwhemled and wanted to hit or scream at my child. I would take that moment to hug and kiss her.
Hugging my child was as pleasurable as eating chocolates, so it was a treat for me.
posted by Coffeetyme at 10:20 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Understand that you can't hold two different thoughts in your head at one time. So when you feel angry at your child, put another thought in there.
What I did was show love by hugging and praising my child. It's a feeling/thought that I love and would enjoy doing anytime I can. So when I was overwhemled and wanted to hit or scream at my child. I would take that moment to hug and kiss her.
Hugging my child was as pleasurable as eating chocolates, so it was a treat for me.
posted by Coffeetyme at 10:20 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
... please try to switch to saying "you're getting a spanking for that!" (and then administering the spanking later, after you've cooled down) instead of continuing to smack your kid in the heat of the moment.Damn, that's cold.
Do you really think a three-year old is emotionally or intellectually capable of connecting a deferred spanking to their earlier behaviour?
Put yourself in a three-year old's shoes and imagine how it would make you feel. What would you learn from it?
Please don't do this.
posted by ZipRibbons at 10:20 AM on November 19, 2014 [8 favorites]
MeFite Cool Papa Bell outlines the law giver approach. That's also how we do things. Being unwavering and not open to negotiation sounds like it would be an outlet for rage, but it's totally not. What it does is, it allows you to detach your emotions from the enforcing of rules and expectations.
It's simply your job to enforce these rules. In service of that, you are implacable. You are the Sphinx. These are the rules. These are the privileges we will lose (or small, absolutely non-corporal punishments we will get) if we do not follow them. We are just so sorry you are upset about that, but it doesn't change anything. (Bonus: sometimes I can bring him back in line by asking plainly, "Does that ever work? Does we ever change our mind about bedtime?" or what have you. He will admit, no, it doesn't, then resume behaving himself.)
By making the rules and enforcement of them more of an iron clad reality and less of a decision you make while mad, you actually make it easier to improve discipline with your kid without being scary or seeming unkind.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:40 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's simply your job to enforce these rules. In service of that, you are implacable. You are the Sphinx. These are the rules. These are the privileges we will lose (or small, absolutely non-corporal punishments we will get) if we do not follow them. We are just so sorry you are upset about that, but it doesn't change anything. (Bonus: sometimes I can bring him back in line by asking plainly, "Does that ever work? Does we ever change our mind about bedtime?" or what have you. He will admit, no, it doesn't, then resume behaving himself.)
By making the rules and enforcement of them more of an iron clad reality and less of a decision you make while mad, you actually make it easier to improve discipline with your kid without being scary or seeming unkind.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:40 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Would you hit a puppy? Probably not. Think of your kid as equally defenceless agaisnt you. A 3 year old has no idea what she is doing that is upsetting you. So stop yourself or go pick someone of your own size.
posted by jellyjam at 12:43 PM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by jellyjam at 12:43 PM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Man, there's a lot of judginess here. A kid can be remarkably un-defenseless! A really willful kid can leave bruises all over you, and 3 is too young for the "go to your room" or indirect punishment that might fit for an older child.
Two thoughts from a parent with a similar kid/frustration level:
1) parent time-outs (in another room). these are helpful for getting your shit back together (or just getting away from the kid who's infuriating you), and sometimes they shock the kid into pulling their own shit together.
2) you are human. just the fact that you are worried about this means you're on the right track. keep tight hold of your This Too Shall Pass mantra (although it never passes as quickly as you want), do your best with a rotation of tricks, and forgive yourself if sometimes you don't have the resources to be your Best Self every minute.
Jeez, my spouse and I basically never fight, but still sometimes one of us is tired and grumpy and says or does something that merits a later apology. Try apologizing to your kid later, with the challenging addition of not adding a "but" about their behavior. That sets a useful example about being human and making amends. You can ask them some other day, at a non-crisis time of day, how they think you can handle X issue without having so many dire conflicts about it -- what solution *they* would suggest, etc. Every little bit helps, and it takes a thousand strategies to get through this craziness.
hang in there!!
posted by acm at 2:13 PM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Two thoughts from a parent with a similar kid/frustration level:
1) parent time-outs (in another room). these are helpful for getting your shit back together (or just getting away from the kid who's infuriating you), and sometimes they shock the kid into pulling their own shit together.
2) you are human. just the fact that you are worried about this means you're on the right track. keep tight hold of your This Too Shall Pass mantra (although it never passes as quickly as you want), do your best with a rotation of tricks, and forgive yourself if sometimes you don't have the resources to be your Best Self every minute.
Jeez, my spouse and I basically never fight, but still sometimes one of us is tired and grumpy and says or does something that merits a later apology. Try apologizing to your kid later, with the challenging addition of not adding a "but" about their behavior. That sets a useful example about being human and making amends. You can ask them some other day, at a non-crisis time of day, how they think you can handle X issue without having so many dire conflicts about it -- what solution *they* would suggest, etc. Every little bit helps, and it takes a thousand strategies to get through this craziness.
hang in there!!
posted by acm at 2:13 PM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
So at a minimum, please try to switch to saying "you're getting a spanking for that!" (and then administering the spanking later, after you've cooled down) instead of continuing to smack your kid in the heat of the moment.
posted by Jacqueline at 7:21 AM on November 19 [2 favorites +] [!]
Please don't ever do this. This is torture. In this proposed scenario, while you're waiting until you've "cooled down" your child either will be twisting in fear waiting to be spanked, or will forget what (s)he did wrong and the spanking will be a cruel surprise.
posted by Majorita at 9:32 PM on November 19, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by Jacqueline at 7:21 AM on November 19 [2 favorites +] [!]
Please don't ever do this. This is torture. In this proposed scenario, while you're waiting until you've "cooled down" your child either will be twisting in fear waiting to be spanked, or will forget what (s)he did wrong and the spanking will be a cruel surprise.
posted by Majorita at 9:32 PM on November 19, 2014 [6 favorites]
Would you hit a puppy? Probably not. Think of your kid as equally defenceless agaisnt you. A 3 year old has no idea what she is doing that is upsetting you. So stop yourself or go pick someone of your own size.
Exactly this. Do not inflict pain on your child for any reason. (this includes pyschological/emotional pain)
posted by Tanizaki at 12:02 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Exactly this. Do not inflict pain on your child for any reason. (this includes pyschological/emotional pain)
posted by Tanizaki at 12:02 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
The child is a chaos machine in these moments: trying to reason with every momentary fluctuation is pointless, hopeless - so you have to focus on the bigger picture.
I get caught up in thinking "X needs to happen and child isn't doing it!!!!" When, if I step back and think about it, I could just let it go and the world will not end. Especially if things get too chaotic - there's no good in trying to match a three year old.
I have taken a lot of techniques from other parents and how they deal with melting down kids. I've always admired the ones who react with coolness and so I've tried to emulate that, even when I don't feel it.
Also, in our house, if things get stupid (and escalation like you're describing, which is 100% normal) we pass off, we've even passed off onto visiting friends/family who have children themselves.
I worry about my short temper every single day. I know, after many expensive years of conversation with various therapists, that in my own childhood I had no model for how to cope with that kind of madness - no blueprint to follow. So I've cobbled my own together - it doesn't always work but you can do it - and that you know it's an issue is the best place to start.
Good luck and remember, even when you feel yourself being wound up all the way, that you have crazy love for the kid. Then try to bring those feelings into the moment; I know that sounds insane, like something that is impossible but it's not - I know because I did it (not perfectly, let's not get carried away, but it helps).
posted by From Bklyn at 11:09 PM on November 18, 2014 [4 favorites]