Resources to help my SO deal with emotionally abusive parents
August 8, 2013 6:57 AM Subscribe
I'm a Northern American living in a southern European country and married with a child to a local. My husband is a wonderful partner and father, and the textbook definition of someone who will give you the shirt off his back if you need it. Said Southern European country is very much family orientated. For all intents and purposes I think that's generally a fine thing. My in-laws are a horrible source of counterpoint ancedata and their latest outburst has been the proverbial straw across my back.
I need resources and information to help me support my SO as well as help him take the final few steps to admitting to himself that they are abusing his sense of familial responsibility and overall caring nature.
His father had a major stroke around a decade ago and hasn't been able to work since. He receives a minimal monthly pension from the state. His mother has never worked a day in her life and by my partner's own admission, would spend money as fast as it would come in. This behavior was facilitated by her father apparently. Two-thirds of my SO's first paycheck at the age of 15 was "borrowed" by his mother to pay bills (this was before his fathers stroke) and the pattern has only become a regular habit, to the point where his parents feel they are owed by their progeny. When his father had his stroke, my SO dropped out of school and began working full time in addition to helping his mother care for his father, taking him hither and yon for treatments and appointments. His elder sibling had already finished his High school studies but as I understand it, also helped out at this time.
Up until a few years ago, my mother-in-law's father lived with them and they all three lived off of the grandfather's fairly decent pension. The grandfather would never give his daughter unfettered access but he would also never really deny her whims either. Upon the grandfather's death, they were left with only his father's meager pension. My husband moved them and himself into a more affordable flat and began working double shifts 6 days a week.
Fast forward to the present day; he and I live with our child in a flat in the major city where his job is (and most recently where I have begun to do some part time work as our schedules and child care needs permits). His parents still live in the flat he found after his grandfather's passing. He gives them "his part" of rent every month (approx. a third of the rent.)
This might not be such an issue if it were not for the fact that a) the contract us in his name and b) they rack up insane utility bills, a most recent example being over 300 clamshells for a bimonthly summer gas bill. They never pay these bills.. Not the comparably more reasonable sums for the electric. Not the Internet and phone bills of which they have jumped from one operator to the next when service is suspended for lack of payment. There's always some excuse as to why they shouldn't have to pay Bill X or Y.
As his sibling has long since washed their hands of helping out their parents ( and said sibling us a whole 'nuther can of worms) my SO has been literally working himself to the bone to ensure they don't get their gas or electric turned off, say in the dead of winter.
Familial sacrifice in times of need would be fine and dandy, but they act as if the world and more specifically their progeny, owe them blood sacrifice and tithing. Lights and appliances and the heating in winter are constantly running without thought for containing costs. They categorically refuse to sell unnecessary furniture and move to a smaller more affordable flat, much less avail themselves of his mother's right to half of her parents' house in another city.
The hardened turd cherry on the shit icing cake is how they regularly complain how their progeny are never there for them, don't give them anything and oh how ungrateful and lousy their progeny are to practically abandon them.
This is my "Are you fucking kidding me?!" face.
My husband is reaching his physical, emotional and mental limits. He has moments where he recognizes what horrid treatment he receives from them, but as a classic abuse scenario, rationalizes their bad behavior when they flip back to kissy niceness (usually when rent is due). I have largely held my tongue, offering a heavily edited, as neutral as possible opinion only when he asks me directly. But after a massive panic attack a few months back, I flat out told him that I will literally physically take our family out of reach from his should I see that his health begins to be compromised again in such a grave manner. He acknowledged the validity of my viewpoint and knows that my pulling out the nuclear option come from wanting to protect and shelter him from harm.
We will be seeing a psychiatrist come September (everything is on hols in August) to help him treat his situational depression as well as give both of us tools and coping mechanisms to aid us both in dealing with this mess. Unfortunately his parents have gone off on another round of "Pity us our progeny are horrible selfish abandoners" via FB. I've blocked them and their FB dramarama but I need some interim resources and information to aid us both in coping and deflecting any bullshit escalation tactics. A current additional crimp in things is that his father is in need of surgery for a herniated disc with his ongoing health problems resulting from the stroke as a complicating factor.
Any advice on faking it until we make it to September as well as what we should be looking for in terms of a good fit with the psychiatrist would be greatly appreciated. Anonymous because i don't want this connected to my username. If necessary, I'll email the mods with an update or a throwaway email address.
His father had a major stroke around a decade ago and hasn't been able to work since. He receives a minimal monthly pension from the state. His mother has never worked a day in her life and by my partner's own admission, would spend money as fast as it would come in. This behavior was facilitated by her father apparently. Two-thirds of my SO's first paycheck at the age of 15 was "borrowed" by his mother to pay bills (this was before his fathers stroke) and the pattern has only become a regular habit, to the point where his parents feel they are owed by their progeny. When his father had his stroke, my SO dropped out of school and began working full time in addition to helping his mother care for his father, taking him hither and yon for treatments and appointments. His elder sibling had already finished his High school studies but as I understand it, also helped out at this time.
Up until a few years ago, my mother-in-law's father lived with them and they all three lived off of the grandfather's fairly decent pension. The grandfather would never give his daughter unfettered access but he would also never really deny her whims either. Upon the grandfather's death, they were left with only his father's meager pension. My husband moved them and himself into a more affordable flat and began working double shifts 6 days a week.
Fast forward to the present day; he and I live with our child in a flat in the major city where his job is (and most recently where I have begun to do some part time work as our schedules and child care needs permits). His parents still live in the flat he found after his grandfather's passing. He gives them "his part" of rent every month (approx. a third of the rent.)
This might not be such an issue if it were not for the fact that a) the contract us in his name and b) they rack up insane utility bills, a most recent example being over 300 clamshells for a bimonthly summer gas bill. They never pay these bills.. Not the comparably more reasonable sums for the electric. Not the Internet and phone bills of which they have jumped from one operator to the next when service is suspended for lack of payment. There's always some excuse as to why they shouldn't have to pay Bill X or Y.
As his sibling has long since washed their hands of helping out their parents ( and said sibling us a whole 'nuther can of worms) my SO has been literally working himself to the bone to ensure they don't get their gas or electric turned off, say in the dead of winter.
Familial sacrifice in times of need would be fine and dandy, but they act as if the world and more specifically their progeny, owe them blood sacrifice and tithing. Lights and appliances and the heating in winter are constantly running without thought for containing costs. They categorically refuse to sell unnecessary furniture and move to a smaller more affordable flat, much less avail themselves of his mother's right to half of her parents' house in another city.
The hardened turd cherry on the shit icing cake is how they regularly complain how their progeny are never there for them, don't give them anything and oh how ungrateful and lousy their progeny are to practically abandon them.
This is my "Are you fucking kidding me?!" face.
My husband is reaching his physical, emotional and mental limits. He has moments where he recognizes what horrid treatment he receives from them, but as a classic abuse scenario, rationalizes their bad behavior when they flip back to kissy niceness (usually when rent is due). I have largely held my tongue, offering a heavily edited, as neutral as possible opinion only when he asks me directly. But after a massive panic attack a few months back, I flat out told him that I will literally physically take our family out of reach from his should I see that his health begins to be compromised again in such a grave manner. He acknowledged the validity of my viewpoint and knows that my pulling out the nuclear option come from wanting to protect and shelter him from harm.
We will be seeing a psychiatrist come September (everything is on hols in August) to help him treat his situational depression as well as give both of us tools and coping mechanisms to aid us both in dealing with this mess. Unfortunately his parents have gone off on another round of "Pity us our progeny are horrible selfish abandoners" via FB. I've blocked them and their FB dramarama but I need some interim resources and information to aid us both in coping and deflecting any bullshit escalation tactics. A current additional crimp in things is that his father is in need of surgery for a herniated disc with his ongoing health problems resulting from the stroke as a complicating factor.
Any advice on faking it until we make it to September as well as what we should be looking for in terms of a good fit with the psychiatrist would be greatly appreciated. Anonymous because i don't want this connected to my username. If necessary, I'll email the mods with an update or a throwaway email address.
Okay, the best thing for your SO, as well as for you and your child: cut them off entirely.... not one red cent more. But, yeah: these are his parents, this is his family, so no: unfortunately, that's probably impossible.
What you can do is insist none of their bills (utilities, rent, anything) are ever again in SO's name. And if they want you/SO to pay for their gas & electric bills, they must give you those bills every. single. month --- pay those ultilities yourselves, directly to the providers. Go ahead and continue paying "SO's share of the rent", because I truly doubt he'd be willing to quit that; but quit paying for the 'optional' bills completely: no more money for the bills for internet or phone (stuff not needed to live, like heat is).
And I'm sorry, but his father's medical mess? Keep well clear of it all.
posted by easily confused at 7:29 AM on August 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
What you can do is insist none of their bills (utilities, rent, anything) are ever again in SO's name. And if they want you/SO to pay for their gas & electric bills, they must give you those bills every. single. month --- pay those ultilities yourselves, directly to the providers. Go ahead and continue paying "SO's share of the rent", because I truly doubt he'd be willing to quit that; but quit paying for the 'optional' bills completely: no more money for the bills for internet or phone (stuff not needed to live, like heat is).
And I'm sorry, but his father's medical mess? Keep well clear of it all.
posted by easily confused at 7:29 AM on August 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
Making Light is a somewhat prominent blog. They have a series of post/discussions of Dysfunctional Families, which runs to a dozen posts and thousands of comments. Here's the most recent, which links to previous threads. Reading some of that has been reported to be helpful for others, it may also help you.
posted by contrarian at 7:37 AM on August 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by contrarian at 7:37 AM on August 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
It would be a little helpful if you could specify which country you're in, though I know that might be too identifying for you.
Most European countries have safeguards against the things your in-laws are implying as threats. Electric and gas won't be turned off in the winter, for instance, because socialist governments have laws to protect people from freezing to death.
Likewise, there are also plenty, and I do mean PLENTY, of socialized support system options for the MIL. For one, she should be getting part of her husband's retirement (I kind of got lost in the stories, hope I understood correctly that he passed away?). I work for a retirement management organisation in France at the moment, and widows (men and women alike) always get a portion of their spouse's pension/retirement. Always. She can also ask for social assistance to raise any underage children; in France, for instance, they're supported at full governmental rates up to age 18, and can continue to be supported at full rates up to age 25 so long as they're going to school.
As a first step, your husband could gently suggest they look into which social support programs are available in your country.
posted by fraula at 7:39 AM on August 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
Most European countries have safeguards against the things your in-laws are implying as threats. Electric and gas won't be turned off in the winter, for instance, because socialist governments have laws to protect people from freezing to death.
Likewise, there are also plenty, and I do mean PLENTY, of socialized support system options for the MIL. For one, she should be getting part of her husband's retirement (I kind of got lost in the stories, hope I understood correctly that he passed away?). I work for a retirement management organisation in France at the moment, and widows (men and women alike) always get a portion of their spouse's pension/retirement. Always. She can also ask for social assistance to raise any underage children; in France, for instance, they're supported at full governmental rates up to age 18, and can continue to be supported at full rates up to age 25 so long as they're going to school.
As a first step, your husband could gently suggest they look into which social support programs are available in your country.
posted by fraula at 7:39 AM on August 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
It's not clear to me whether the bills for gas, electricty, phone, internet, etc are in your MIL's name or your husband's. If they're in his name, you need to get his name off of things. If they're in your MIL's name, would your husband be comfortable just giving them a certain amount of money every month and stopping there, letting them choose how to budget?
Something like "Given the costs of living in city with baby anonymous, we looked at our budget, and we can afford to give you X euros per month. If you need help figuring out how to cut costs so that you can live on [pension etc] plus the money we give you, we'll be happy to help you cut costs." And then, when they say that husband is so unfair, the kids don't give them anything, you can point out that you give them X euros per month.
If your husband is okay with this plan, it might be easier to cede all finances to you, so you have the cheques, the bank cards, you give him cash when he needs it for things, etc. This is only if you both think this is a good plan, and it's so that if his parents ask for more, he doesn't have the ability to give in on his own. This will also only work if he doesn't use you as the excuse (or if he does it only with your permission).
posted by jeather at 7:45 AM on August 8, 2013 [4 favorites]
Something like "Given the costs of living in city with baby anonymous, we looked at our budget, and we can afford to give you X euros per month. If you need help figuring out how to cut costs so that you can live on [pension etc] plus the money we give you, we'll be happy to help you cut costs." And then, when they say that husband is so unfair, the kids don't give them anything, you can point out that you give them X euros per month.
If your husband is okay with this plan, it might be easier to cede all finances to you, so you have the cheques, the bank cards, you give him cash when he needs it for things, etc. This is only if you both think this is a good plan, and it's so that if his parents ask for more, he doesn't have the ability to give in on his own. This will also only work if he doesn't use you as the excuse (or if he does it only with your permission).
posted by jeather at 7:45 AM on August 8, 2013 [4 favorites]
I am so sorry you are going through this. The money is your immediate family's - husband, kids and yours. IMO any decision to give money to his parents should be run by you. I understand that there are cultural differences. He does sound like he's emotionally abused by them and I can tell you it's a hard thing to overcome. Some things to think about 1; You could ask your husband not renew the lease on their apt. 2; The 2 of you should sit down and look at your long term goals (without his parents). 3; For you I think you should read about emotionally abused kids and their situation. I linked this article before and it's really great - Abusive Parents by Emily Yoffe
Good luck and I really think it's great you guys are looking at professional help.
posted by lasamana at 7:50 AM on August 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
Good luck and I really think it's great you guys are looking at professional help.
posted by lasamana at 7:50 AM on August 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
As I type this I am an American sitting in a country where situations like you describe are par for the course.
Your husband's parents' expectation that he is going to pay for this stuff is by no means unusual.
And yes, it totally sucks that they are racking up the utilities, as I understand it the only income they have is father-in-law's tiny pension. (If other sibling is younger and/or female, she is probably off the hook.) What are they supposed to do? Start working again? I assume that unemployment is an issue and that both MiL and FiL are lacking in skills.
Really, this isn't your battle to fight with them. I realize that your SO is suffering, but first you two need to agree upon how much money is reasonable to give MiL and FiL given the number of hours he can work without going nuts.
But in terms of a strategy for how your SO can convey this to them, make them pay their utilities (maybe it is totally normally in your country to skip out on these utilities - it is in a lot of similar countries where I've lived), sell the furniture, move to a smaller flat, etc... without knowing their relationship, it is hard to say.
I hope that some non-USian, non-Western/Northern-European MeFites can come in and help you with some ideas.
But all-in-all, while this sucks, you married into it. Caring for his extended family is part of your life.
posted by k8t at 8:25 AM on August 8, 2013
Your husband's parents' expectation that he is going to pay for this stuff is by no means unusual.
And yes, it totally sucks that they are racking up the utilities, as I understand it the only income they have is father-in-law's tiny pension. (If other sibling is younger and/or female, she is probably off the hook.) What are they supposed to do? Start working again? I assume that unemployment is an issue and that both MiL and FiL are lacking in skills.
Really, this isn't your battle to fight with them. I realize that your SO is suffering, but first you two need to agree upon how much money is reasonable to give MiL and FiL given the number of hours he can work without going nuts.
But in terms of a strategy for how your SO can convey this to them, make them pay their utilities (maybe it is totally normally in your country to skip out on these utilities - it is in a lot of similar countries where I've lived), sell the furniture, move to a smaller flat, etc... without knowing their relationship, it is hard to say.
I hope that some non-USian, non-Western/Northern-European MeFites can come in and help you with some ideas.
But all-in-all, while this sucks, you married into it. Caring for his extended family is part of your life.
posted by k8t at 8:25 AM on August 8, 2013
It may be very hard for your SO to hear his parents described as abusive. He might be more responsive to factual, matter-of-fact descriptions of reality. Here are some ways to talk to him:
What a shame that your parents have such expensive bills.
It is not your responsibility to pay for their lifestytle. If they had to pay their own bills, they would probably learn to manage the utilities a little better.
I'm so worried about how hard you work. If you get sick, your parents, as well as the baby and I, will lose the support we get from you.
You work so hard; I admire your dedication.
What a good son you are. You take car of your parents with no recognition.
We need you to be home with us, not always working.
Do look at programs for retired people and find out if there's any subsidized housing, protection for winter utilities, etc.
Sit down with your SO and develop a budget for your family. Your SO has an obligation to his own family, an obligation of time as well as support. Budget an amount he can commit to his parents. Try to be neutral about this, as it's actually very loving of him, and he must feel very conflicted about the money he gives the folks vs. caring for his own family. He should give his parents the rent contribution just When it's due, or directly to the landlord. When his parents want more and more money, he can give them the budgeted additional amount, if any, and then tell them, I love you so much, I wish I could do more, but I have no more to give. I am paying rent, food and expenses for my family. When you change things with people like this, they will be relenless about applying pressure, but if he is strong, loving and consistent, they'll learn that he just doesn't have it to give.
I'm uncomfortable with I flat out told him that I will literally physically take our family out of reach from his should I see that his health begins to be compromised again in such a grave manner. It adds pressure, which he doesn't need, and I don't think you should use th echild as a bargaining chip. I htink it's more effective to keep pointing out that if he endangers his health, he won't be able to help anybody, and that he has obligations to you and the child. They sound like a piece of work, I wish you the best.
posted by theora55 at 8:55 AM on August 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
What a shame that your parents have such expensive bills.
It is not your responsibility to pay for their lifestytle. If they had to pay their own bills, they would probably learn to manage the utilities a little better.
I'm so worried about how hard you work. If you get sick, your parents, as well as the baby and I, will lose the support we get from you.
You work so hard; I admire your dedication.
What a good son you are. You take car of your parents with no recognition.
We need you to be home with us, not always working.
Do look at programs for retired people and find out if there's any subsidized housing, protection for winter utilities, etc.
Sit down with your SO and develop a budget for your family. Your SO has an obligation to his own family, an obligation of time as well as support. Budget an amount he can commit to his parents. Try to be neutral about this, as it's actually very loving of him, and he must feel very conflicted about the money he gives the folks vs. caring for his own family. He should give his parents the rent contribution just When it's due, or directly to the landlord. When his parents want more and more money, he can give them the budgeted additional amount, if any, and then tell them, I love you so much, I wish I could do more, but I have no more to give. I am paying rent, food and expenses for my family. When you change things with people like this, they will be relenless about applying pressure, but if he is strong, loving and consistent, they'll learn that he just doesn't have it to give.
I'm uncomfortable with I flat out told him that I will literally physically take our family out of reach from his should I see that his health begins to be compromised again in such a grave manner. It adds pressure, which he doesn't need, and I don't think you should use th echild as a bargaining chip. I htink it's more effective to keep pointing out that if he endangers his health, he won't be able to help anybody, and that he has obligations to you and the child. They sound like a piece of work, I wish you the best.
posted by theora55 at 8:55 AM on August 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
It sounds like your husband might be struggling with self-differentiation. It also sounds like you have ruled out estrangement, but having been in a very similar position to his, I can attest that it is the only failsafe solution.
The perception that this level of scraping and bowing is appropriate was, of course, instilled by his parents; it is in their best interest to continue to seek no-holds-barred maximum support from your husband because it means they don't ever have to worry about taking care of themselves. Bully for them. That he still provides them with money for rent and bills without confronting them about the clear inappropriateness of their requests, even after it has begun to affect his health and his family, is a sign that they have succeeded in their mission to convince him that he owes it to them. He doesn't! Regardless of the cultural aspect, regardless of the baggage, regardless of their health issues or work histories or perceived filial duties: He doesn't owe them anything. He may shy away from describing his parents as abusive, but their self-absorption and manipulation speak volumes.
By continuing to allow their inappropriate behavior to go unchallenged, he is only enabling them. Why would they ever stop treating him this way when no one has been willing to tell them to do so? There is no gentle middle path when you are dealing with people like this, and even if there was, they would just run roughshod over it and then complain about the unpleasant terrain. If he simply cuts back on the amount of money he sends them, no matter how you couch it, they are all but guaranteed to wheedle and whinge until he goes back to paying for everything. They have learned to be fully dependent on him, and long ago abandoned any hope of being able to learn how to engage in adult life or mature coping skills. Anything less than a meek continuation of the status quo will be treated as the equivalent to nuclear option-level abandonment.
So as much as I know how much your husband doesn't want to -- and likely won't -- hear it, you are going to need to take hard and fast action to immediately put up some real, definitive, no-exceptions boundaries before they drag your family down with them. I can't give you any advice on faking it until September because doing so will just continue to allow them to get away with treating him like garbage.
If he feels he absolutely must, he should just send them the money, grit his teeth, and avoid their phone calls. Keep it short and sweet. "I already sent the money, mom, everything is taken care of. Don't worry. Talk to you soon, okayloveyoubye!" Click, rinse, repeat. Trust me, nothing he can do for or say to them will ever be seen as good enough. No amount of self-sacrifice, blood, sweat, or tears will satisfy them.
"Narcissism" is obviously a charged term, but it is one that might help you find a good therapist, psychologist, or social worker -- I wouldn't necessarily recommend specifically seeking out a psychiatrist for this sort of situation, unless you are both looking for medication as opposed to talk therapy. The Emily Yoffe article linked above is indeed a fantastic resource; make sure to read the comments, too.
Here are some books that might assist you in the interim:
Cutting Loose: An Adult's Guide to Coming to Terms with Your Parents by Howard Halpern
Coping With Your Difficult Older Parent: A Guide for Stressed-Out Children by Grace Lebow and Barbara Kane
Where to Draw the Line: How to Set Healthy Boundaries Every Day by Anne Katherine
If You Had Controlling Parents: How to Make Peace with Your Past and Take Your Place in the World by Dan Neuharth
In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People by George K. Simon
Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You by Susan Forward
Good luck -- speaking from experience, this is a really tough road to hoe, and your husband is very lucky to have you at his side.
posted by divined by radio at 9:19 AM on August 8, 2013 [11 favorites]
The perception that this level of scraping and bowing is appropriate was, of course, instilled by his parents; it is in their best interest to continue to seek no-holds-barred maximum support from your husband because it means they don't ever have to worry about taking care of themselves. Bully for them. That he still provides them with money for rent and bills without confronting them about the clear inappropriateness of their requests, even after it has begun to affect his health and his family, is a sign that they have succeeded in their mission to convince him that he owes it to them. He doesn't! Regardless of the cultural aspect, regardless of the baggage, regardless of their health issues or work histories or perceived filial duties: He doesn't owe them anything. He may shy away from describing his parents as abusive, but their self-absorption and manipulation speak volumes.
By continuing to allow their inappropriate behavior to go unchallenged, he is only enabling them. Why would they ever stop treating him this way when no one has been willing to tell them to do so? There is no gentle middle path when you are dealing with people like this, and even if there was, they would just run roughshod over it and then complain about the unpleasant terrain. If he simply cuts back on the amount of money he sends them, no matter how you couch it, they are all but guaranteed to wheedle and whinge until he goes back to paying for everything. They have learned to be fully dependent on him, and long ago abandoned any hope of being able to learn how to engage in adult life or mature coping skills. Anything less than a meek continuation of the status quo will be treated as the equivalent to nuclear option-level abandonment.
So as much as I know how much your husband doesn't want to -- and likely won't -- hear it, you are going to need to take hard and fast action to immediately put up some real, definitive, no-exceptions boundaries before they drag your family down with them. I can't give you any advice on faking it until September because doing so will just continue to allow them to get away with treating him like garbage.
If he feels he absolutely must, he should just send them the money, grit his teeth, and avoid their phone calls. Keep it short and sweet. "I already sent the money, mom, everything is taken care of. Don't worry. Talk to you soon, okayloveyoubye!" Click, rinse, repeat. Trust me, nothing he can do for or say to them will ever be seen as good enough. No amount of self-sacrifice, blood, sweat, or tears will satisfy them.
"Narcissism" is obviously a charged term, but it is one that might help you find a good therapist, psychologist, or social worker -- I wouldn't necessarily recommend specifically seeking out a psychiatrist for this sort of situation, unless you are both looking for medication as opposed to talk therapy. The Emily Yoffe article linked above is indeed a fantastic resource; make sure to read the comments, too.
Here are some books that might assist you in the interim:
Cutting Loose: An Adult's Guide to Coming to Terms with Your Parents by Howard Halpern
Coping With Your Difficult Older Parent: A Guide for Stressed-Out Children by Grace Lebow and Barbara Kane
Where to Draw the Line: How to Set Healthy Boundaries Every Day by Anne Katherine
If You Had Controlling Parents: How to Make Peace with Your Past and Take Your Place in the World by Dan Neuharth
In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People by George K. Simon
Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You by Susan Forward
Good luck -- speaking from experience, this is a really tough road to hoe, and your husband is very lucky to have you at his side.
posted by divined by radio at 9:19 AM on August 8, 2013 [11 favorites]
Warning – extra-long!
So, pretty random thoughts:
1. The mother will never change. Never, ever. Barring some miracle. Occasional smear campaigns will be your/ your husband’s lot until she dies. If you buy her the flat they live in, her complaints will continue. If you buy her a tropical island complete with personal masseuse, she will still vent to whoever listens.
2. I think the way forward for your SO will be through therapy that helps him/her internalise one of the things which is frequently mentioned here, and which I believe to carry cross-culturally: you cannot be responsible for another person’s thoughts, actions, words. Yes, we each have an impact, and up to a point I think we should be mindful of it; beyond that, however, it is impossible to take on the burden of another adult’s life. For example, the problems with MIL’s permanent discontent, her learned helplessness, the perpetual victim narrative and implicit ingratitude, her general unhappiness – no one can objectively hope to be able to resolve these for her.
I think one of the tasks in therapy is to figure out where the point is beyond which responsibility can not (pragmatically) be accepted, and how to deal with attempts by others to burden you/ your SO in excess of what one can reasonably expect of others. When I say deal with it, I mean both strategies of making it clear to others that they are circling a no-go zone, and ways in which you can deal with the internal emotional fall-out of saying no.
3. As preparation before September, I’d recommend this book on dysfunctional family dynamics. What I found particularly helpful about it is that it addresses problems at a structural level, whilst giving concrete examples, so you can recognize types of attitudes and behaviours which lead to dysfunction without getting hung up on details which don't happen to coincide with your experience or worldview. Also: lucid, but doesn’t assign blame - I have lots of issues with my parents, and wouldn’t hesitate to say that they were abusive, and that our family was/ is dysfunctional, but I DO love them and couldn’t countenance them being called monsters or the like, so I liked that aspect of the book. It also has some pretty useful exercises, including on how to deal with misplaced demands for taking on responsibility which you don't want/ can't handle.
4. Re. cultural differences: I also come from a high involvement, very community-oriented culture. The idea that things – income, houses, gadgets etc are for everyone in a family to partake of rather than necessarily belonging to one single individual is fairly normal (matters are more complicated, for example there are differences of degree depending on region, sub-cultures, social class, or purely personal etc,). One person’s problem is pretty much everybody’s problem, one person’s task can become another person’s task and so on, in a way which can easily be read by a (cultural) outsider as dysfunctional, but which is the overall accepted standard. Some features of the system (slightly idealised generalisation) are that children are doted on, that there remains a strong element of the “child” in parent-kid relationships way past the age when this is deemed healthy in cultures that are low involvement (nobody would bat an eye at a 35-year old living with their parents, for instance, in fact, many households, especially in the country, are multi-generational), and that with progressing age the duty (and joy) of care is spread more evenly until eventually it devolves on to the children altogether – nobody would dream of sending aged parents into an old people’s home, for instance. And when the system works well, it is a beautiful way to live, rich in love and care and security.
However, like everything, this system is pretty easily abused, and in ways which are structurally not that different to what happens in other cultures, even if some of the details differ. In my country (eastern Europe) it tends to go hand in hand with a very patriarchal family hierarchy (elders, father of the family, mother of the family, kids – and there, too, frequently – older child, middle child, younger child, with the oldest even having a special title to show respect in some sub-cultures), and if anyone on the ladder hijacks excessive rights to the detriment of others, or doesn’t observe their duties fully, or if the duties are not, to some extent at least, mutually agreed, or if they exceed what can reasonably expected of someone, or if someone is emotionally blackmailed into taking on more than reasonable etc, pretty much all the usual, then you have a situation which would be judged as dysfunctional even by intra-cultural parameters, by a reasonable observer from that culture. For example, the situation you are describing takes place in a different country, but if it is anything like mine, what you are describing is highly dysfunctional and even abusive (of course, the assumption here is that I am a reasonable observer…).
5. Something you might want to be aware of when seeking outside help: there are certain issues on which you might be battling prevailing ideologies, and these tend to be taboo/ set in stone. Where I come from – as I said, still very patriarchal, very focused on respect for elders, especially parents, very community (preferences) over individual (needs), such ideologies would be “the woman should respect/ obey the man”, “children (of whatever age) should respect/obey their parents, or generally elders”, “group decisions prevail over individual decisions, especially if people in the group have hierarchical precedence over the respective individual”. And therapists/ psychiatrists frequently ardently embrace one or more of these ideological points, have little or no interest in solving issues which they might see as conflicting with the accepted orthodoxy on them, and, in fact, may work to undermine their client’s feelings and needs even more. So, in looking for professional help, I’d make sure either that you are on the same page with the therapist, or else that you find someone non-judgemental, who sees themselves more as a guide through the therapee’s own struggles, rather than the thought police on personal ideology.
6. Also before September, I’d reflect a bit on how I can reconcile my own worldview (for instance, in my case, ideally a non-dysfunctional high-involvement model without the patriarchalism, the hierarchy and with genuine respect for the individuals involved) with the status quo, my own needs (and, in your SO’s case, the needs of my new family – you and your child) with the knowledge that whatever changes happen will have to be implemented by your SO and you, and probably actively and aggressively resisted by MIL. What course of action can I realistically envision, and what do I need to do to prepare for it? This can range from cutting ties with the parents and giving them a monthly allocation, to learning how to treat MIL’s outbursts and perpetual discontent as regular, but negligible tantrums. You know what works for you/ your SO, but I would try to be prepared with an idea of what you are aiming for.
Good luck, this kind of thing can really sap your will to live, regardless of the country/ culture you are in.
posted by miorita at 10:21 AM on August 8, 2013 [4 favorites]
So, pretty random thoughts:
1. The mother will never change. Never, ever. Barring some miracle. Occasional smear campaigns will be your/ your husband’s lot until she dies. If you buy her the flat they live in, her complaints will continue. If you buy her a tropical island complete with personal masseuse, she will still vent to whoever listens.
2. I think the way forward for your SO will be through therapy that helps him/her internalise one of the things which is frequently mentioned here, and which I believe to carry cross-culturally: you cannot be responsible for another person’s thoughts, actions, words. Yes, we each have an impact, and up to a point I think we should be mindful of it; beyond that, however, it is impossible to take on the burden of another adult’s life. For example, the problems with MIL’s permanent discontent, her learned helplessness, the perpetual victim narrative and implicit ingratitude, her general unhappiness – no one can objectively hope to be able to resolve these for her.
I think one of the tasks in therapy is to figure out where the point is beyond which responsibility can not (pragmatically) be accepted, and how to deal with attempts by others to burden you/ your SO in excess of what one can reasonably expect of others. When I say deal with it, I mean both strategies of making it clear to others that they are circling a no-go zone, and ways in which you can deal with the internal emotional fall-out of saying no.
3. As preparation before September, I’d recommend this book on dysfunctional family dynamics. What I found particularly helpful about it is that it addresses problems at a structural level, whilst giving concrete examples, so you can recognize types of attitudes and behaviours which lead to dysfunction without getting hung up on details which don't happen to coincide with your experience or worldview. Also: lucid, but doesn’t assign blame - I have lots of issues with my parents, and wouldn’t hesitate to say that they were abusive, and that our family was/ is dysfunctional, but I DO love them and couldn’t countenance them being called monsters or the like, so I liked that aspect of the book. It also has some pretty useful exercises, including on how to deal with misplaced demands for taking on responsibility which you don't want/ can't handle.
4. Re. cultural differences: I also come from a high involvement, very community-oriented culture. The idea that things – income, houses, gadgets etc are for everyone in a family to partake of rather than necessarily belonging to one single individual is fairly normal (matters are more complicated, for example there are differences of degree depending on region, sub-cultures, social class, or purely personal etc,). One person’s problem is pretty much everybody’s problem, one person’s task can become another person’s task and so on, in a way which can easily be read by a (cultural) outsider as dysfunctional, but which is the overall accepted standard. Some features of the system (slightly idealised generalisation) are that children are doted on, that there remains a strong element of the “child” in parent-kid relationships way past the age when this is deemed healthy in cultures that are low involvement (nobody would bat an eye at a 35-year old living with their parents, for instance, in fact, many households, especially in the country, are multi-generational), and that with progressing age the duty (and joy) of care is spread more evenly until eventually it devolves on to the children altogether – nobody would dream of sending aged parents into an old people’s home, for instance. And when the system works well, it is a beautiful way to live, rich in love and care and security.
However, like everything, this system is pretty easily abused, and in ways which are structurally not that different to what happens in other cultures, even if some of the details differ. In my country (eastern Europe) it tends to go hand in hand with a very patriarchal family hierarchy (elders, father of the family, mother of the family, kids – and there, too, frequently – older child, middle child, younger child, with the oldest even having a special title to show respect in some sub-cultures), and if anyone on the ladder hijacks excessive rights to the detriment of others, or doesn’t observe their duties fully, or if the duties are not, to some extent at least, mutually agreed, or if they exceed what can reasonably expected of someone, or if someone is emotionally blackmailed into taking on more than reasonable etc, pretty much all the usual, then you have a situation which would be judged as dysfunctional even by intra-cultural parameters, by a reasonable observer from that culture. For example, the situation you are describing takes place in a different country, but if it is anything like mine, what you are describing is highly dysfunctional and even abusive (of course, the assumption here is that I am a reasonable observer…).
5. Something you might want to be aware of when seeking outside help: there are certain issues on which you might be battling prevailing ideologies, and these tend to be taboo/ set in stone. Where I come from – as I said, still very patriarchal, very focused on respect for elders, especially parents, very community (preferences) over individual (needs), such ideologies would be “the woman should respect/ obey the man”, “children (of whatever age) should respect/obey their parents, or generally elders”, “group decisions prevail over individual decisions, especially if people in the group have hierarchical precedence over the respective individual”. And therapists/ psychiatrists frequently ardently embrace one or more of these ideological points, have little or no interest in solving issues which they might see as conflicting with the accepted orthodoxy on them, and, in fact, may work to undermine their client’s feelings and needs even more. So, in looking for professional help, I’d make sure either that you are on the same page with the therapist, or else that you find someone non-judgemental, who sees themselves more as a guide through the therapee’s own struggles, rather than the thought police on personal ideology.
6. Also before September, I’d reflect a bit on how I can reconcile my own worldview (for instance, in my case, ideally a non-dysfunctional high-involvement model without the patriarchalism, the hierarchy and with genuine respect for the individuals involved) with the status quo, my own needs (and, in your SO’s case, the needs of my new family – you and your child) with the knowledge that whatever changes happen will have to be implemented by your SO and you, and probably actively and aggressively resisted by MIL. What course of action can I realistically envision, and what do I need to do to prepare for it? This can range from cutting ties with the parents and giving them a monthly allocation, to learning how to treat MIL’s outbursts and perpetual discontent as regular, but negligible tantrums. You know what works for you/ your SO, but I would try to be prepared with an idea of what you are aiming for.
Good luck, this kind of thing can really sap your will to live, regardless of the country/ culture you are in.
posted by miorita at 10:21 AM on August 8, 2013 [4 favorites]
I would suggest asking husband if he would get on board with giving a notice that he will not be renewing the lease for the housing. Notify landlord first. Make sure the landlord understands that he is completely out of the loop with regard to any monies owed after that, and that he will not be renewing in his name. Then notify parents with this information: 1/3 of rent will be paid up until lease is vacated. After that, no rent support. Either move out, or put the lease in your name only, you pay all the bills. Darling parents, if you can afford 2/3 of $X, then you need to find an apartment for that amount. We will help you move, if necessary. Also, because the utilities are so out of line from what we pay, you will have to start budgeting to afford them. The subsidies are done.
Rinse, repeat. It won't be easy.
posted by BlueHorse at 4:57 PM on August 8, 2013
Rinse, repeat. It won't be easy.
posted by BlueHorse at 4:57 PM on August 8, 2013
it sounds like you've gone from not saying very much about how much this situation is really bothering you--i get it, you were trying to not badmouth his family--to the other extreme of threatening to leave with the kids. i think you need to sit your H down as calmly as you can and communicate how you feel about all this and how it is impacting you and your family. even though there are some obvious cultural differences here in how much responsibility one has for one's family of origin limits need to and can be set. you don't need to badmouth your in-laws in order to communicate how much this is affecting you. check out non-violent communication: a language of life for how to do this. weird title but it is all about making "i" statements rather than "you" statements so the other person will be to receive what you are saying and to help you speak from your perspective and not blame. good luck!
posted by wildflower at 6:22 PM on August 8, 2013
posted by wildflower at 6:22 PM on August 8, 2013
Mod note: From the OP:
A few clarifications:posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:57 PM on August 8, 2013
I'm reluctant to say exactly which country we're in, but while there are certain socialist social safety nets in place, it's a far hue and cry from what's on offer in the rest of the EU. I have been advocating getting them on what ever is on offer, but that requires cooperation on their part to fill in the forms. The rental contract is in his name, with a 3 month deposit. The primary utilities are in the owner's name, as is often done here. And no, he has never paid for the phone/internet access.
To clarify the pension stuff, MIL & FIL have FIL's minimal pension. MIL is not of an age as of yet to receive a housewife's pension, should she be eligible. She is not entitled to continue receiving her father's pension, and all her children are over 30 years old.
The biggest clarification I need to make though, is that when I said I'd take our family out of reach of his, I meant all of us, hubby included. I will not use our child as a bargaining chip.
Thank you all for the anwers so far. There's definitely some food food for thought to chew on here, as well as some useful phrases and language I can use when we discuss things between ourselves. I've set up a throwaway email at inlawbsabroad@gmail.com
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I think you're making the right move by telling him that if it's affecting his health, it's serious - now he has to tell you what he wants, in terms of support, until Sept. Unfortunately, no matter how badly someone is being treated in a relationship, the victim has to decide for themselves how and when to disengage. Ultimately he is going to have to be the one to stand up to them and set boundaries. Ideally you as a couple will decide together what those appropriate boundaries will be, and then he can tell his parents.
The cultural differences are best sorted out by the husband, who knows the culture, the people involved, and his partner.
posted by dubold at 7:18 AM on August 8, 2013