Join 3,552 readers in helping fund MetaFilter (Hide)

Tags:

This or That?
March 27, 2012 12:51 PM   Subscribe

How does one "choose" between the hypothetical wishes of a long time friend and the feelings of a fiancee?

I have a wedding coming up on the 6th of May.

Point 1: I have asked a long time friend who I have known for about 17 years to be my best man, and he has replied he would accept. When I talked to him about my engagement, he expressed an interest in being my best man, which is why I specifically asked him. Honestly though, we haven't been that close over the last 5 years or so, but we do have a crap load of history, and we always said we'd be each other's best man at our weddings.

Point 2: I relocated to FL about 4 years ago because my then long term (3.5 year relationship) girlfriend put me in treatment for substance abuse. We broke up about 9 months after I moved down here, so about 2009, give or take.

Point 3: My long time friend decided to tell me two weeks ago that he has been dating the above mentioned girl for quite some time, and is in fact going to ask her father for her hand in marriage. This doesn't really bother me, as it: A)is not the first time this has happened with him and I didn't care last time. B)it's been 3 years. C)I broke up with her. It is kind of weird and uncomfortable in a "kissing cousins" sense for me, but I'm not jealous or regretting anything at all.

Point 4: My fiancee does not want her at the wedding, and I agree that it might be a little awkward, so the ex g/f will accompany my friend to FL, but she will not attend the wedding or reception.

Point 6: Although I have not discussed this with him yet, there is the very real possibility of him asking me to be his best man at his wedding (which my fiancee brought up earlier)

Point 7 (and the question): My fiancee is upset and disappointed because she asked me if my long time friend asks me to be his best man, and that if she really doesn't want to go and/or they don't invite her to their wedding, if I would still go. My response was: "I'm not sure, but I might... I mean, he's my best man for my wedding, and I would want to be there for him if he asks me to go. Furthermore, we're talking about hypotheticals here, and I'd prefer to discuss this if and when it becomes reality than waste time getting angry over something that doesn't even exist yet."

The question is: Am I wrong? I feel bad that she's upset, and part of me wants to tell her to "suck it up" but, I certainly don't want to start off a marriage on bad terms. Is she being over sensitive, or am I being a non-understanding twit? I don't know... please anyone with experience regarding this a slightly similar situation share with me your advice! Thanks!
posted by Debaser626 to Human Relations (34 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
I think if your fiance expects your best man's fiance to sit out your wedding, it makes perfect sense for her to sit out his. Frankly, I would be more concerned that your ex would prefer you not be her new husband's best man, given your history, and that your accepting the best man request would be doing her a disservice.
posted by JuliaIglesias at 12:57 PM on March 27, 2012 [7 favorites]


Why does your fiancee not like the ex? Is it just because she's an ex or is there something else?

I would definitely frame any conversation about it with "darling, you're the most important person in my life" and see if you can figure out what about the situation upsets her.

From the information you provided, it sounds pretty reasonable for you to your friend's best man. Your fiancee doesn't have to come with you, or she can come with and not attend the ceremony.
posted by momus_window at 12:58 PM on March 27, 2012


I think that your fiancee deserves to not be invited to ex-GF's wedding if ex-GF was not invited to yours when her fiance is Best Man. Not that tit for tat is a great way to live life, but it seems to fit this situation. Although did you throw her under the bus with your "best man", and blame the non-invite of the ex-GF entirely on her? That's not really fair, either.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:04 PM on March 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


She is being selfish and ridiculous. Unless, of course, she is worried you'll slip back into addictive behaviors? If it's just a jealousy thing she needs to get over it. Little chance you'll be sneaking behind the altar for a little nookie with the bride--she'll barely have time to eat!
posted by the young rope-rider at 1:05 PM on March 27, 2012 [2 favorites]


Somehow, this doesn't strike me as a "my fiancee happens to not like my ex a bit here and there" type of question.

Why specifically does she not want this ex to be anywhere near your wedding? What is the actual reason? This should affect your response.

Hypotheticals can be important. They help to discover each other's boundaries before they are broken or become a serious issue.

Note: dismissing her hypothetical concerns (all concerns are impotant in a marriage) or suggesting that she "suck it up" is a great way to show her that her feelings don't matter to you. She is now your wife, thus her concerns are your concerns as well, from here on out.
posted by Shouraku at 1:09 PM on March 27, 2012 [1 favorite]



Why does your fiancee not like the ex? Is it just because she's an ex or is there something else?


Because she's an ex, I guess. Specifically one which I was in a long term relationship with. I don't speak to her, about her or anything else, we're not friends on facebook, etc..

She's in a relationship with my long time friend, though her and my sister have remained fairly close.

My fiancee is upset that I would consider doing something she's "100%, absolutely not comfortable with", because she would never do anything intentionally knowing it would bother me so much as this will bother her.
posted by Debaser626 at 1:09 PM on March 27, 2012


You're not comfortable saying no to your friend, and that's what she's asking you to do, so she's wrong.

I have no idea why she's picking this particular fight. It seems weirdly controlling and insecure to me, but I don't know her.
posted by the young rope-rider at 1:13 PM on March 27, 2012 [15 favorites]


as the young roperider suggests your fiance may be seeing this in the wrong light.

i would go another way here though, and suggest that perhaps the stress of planning YOUR wedding is whats really putting her on edge (for likely unrelated reasons) so its best, in my opinion to simply proceed with the "let's cross that bridge when it comes" method you mentioned already. For now, be sensitive to here concerns, reiterate that she has won the "you" lottery and that what may happen later is not something that should upset her now.
posted by chasles at 1:16 PM on March 27, 2012


This doesn't smell right to me. It sounds like the ex is being understanding about your current fiancee not wanting her at the wedding. I think your fiance needs to suck it up and let you go to the wedding. If she's that worried about it, she can go with you. But this is your (best?) friend and you should be there to support him in his marriage, incestuous past or not.

I'm down with compromise in marriage, but this sounds like an unreasonable compromise.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 1:23 PM on March 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


I agree with the young rope-rider; It seems to me that if there's one time that no one should feel threatened by their SO's ex, it's at that ex's wedding.
posted by amarynth at 1:27 PM on March 27, 2012 [5 favorites]


I have to say, it's very odd to me that she wants you to promise in advance, in effect, that if she doesn't want you to go, you won't. By that time, she will be married to you, and your ex-girlfriend will be in the process of marrying someone else. I understand her not wanting to go, I guess, but as far as you going to fulfill the duties of being the best man, what is the problem, exactly? I get not inviting your ex-girlfriend to your wedding if it makes the two of you uncomfortable; I do not understand insisting that you not attend your ex's wedding when your ex isn't the reason you're going; the friend is.

Her attitude just seems ... weirdly ungenerous to me, and what I really don't like about it is that in part because it's a hypothetical that there's no reason to talk about right now, it feels like a test, and I hate tests. It feels like she's trying to make you agree right now that once you're married, if she doesn't want you to do something, you won't do it. Which sounds nice on one level, and which is the "you're married; now her concerns are your concerns" approach expressed earlier. But that can really be very problematic, because only one person gets to have their way when there's a direct conflict, and it can all too often be the first person to pull the "if you loved me, you'd respect my feelings" card. In other words, (1) she's uncomfortable with you going, so you can't go. But (2) you're uncomfortable being forced to decline, but you have to live with it. She's telling you she'd never do anything you weren't comfortable with, but she already is -- she's making you promise to break a longstanding promise to your best friend. There's really no such thing as mutual veto power.

It's concerning to me that you're potentially in a situation here where she has an understanding of what being married is going to mean that you don't share. And that, honestly, you want to work out before your wedding.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 1:29 PM on March 27, 2012 [16 favorites]


Is there something specific about the ex's wedding that concerns her? Like, you say you were in treatment- is your fiancee concerned that you could get into trouble with alcohol/other substances at a party that she is not invited to?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:30 PM on March 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think you "choose" only after you elicit more information from your fiancee about why this bothers her so much. It's one thing entirely to defer to someone who is well and truly upset or worried when you know exactly what that worry is. It's another to defer to them because they have taken the approach of "There's something about it I don't like, and you're being unsupportive if you don't do things my way."

If it's the latter, I guess you have to decide whether this is a battle you want to fight. But if there is ever a time when you want to fight this battle, it's probably in a situation where you've got very strong reasons to want to have things your way.

But my first thought is that you should really explore what on earth is upsetting her about this. Because the way you've related it, it's weird.
posted by MoonOrb at 1:39 PM on March 27, 2012 [2 favorites]


"Because she's an ex, I guess"

See, this is the problem I see: you guess. You don't know for sure what the issue is. In other words what negative outcome does she see as a result of you being the best man at your friend's wedding?

I am not trying to pick on you, you could very well be %100 in the right. However, your stated reasons for her request are pretty vague, which suggests that you don't know why exactly she is bringing this whole topic up to begin with.

This is where you need to start. Talk to her and try to understand her reasons for her hypothetical request. It is very difficult to give advice on an unknown motive.
posted by Shouraku at 1:41 PM on March 27, 2012 [5 favorites]


You need to talk to your fiancee and clearly understand why she doesn't want your ex at the wedding. She is going to be your wife and your relationship with her should trump all others, IMO, but it does seem like she's been weirdly oversensitive about this. You need to figure out exactly why she has a problem with this, instead of guessing.

Without knowing the missing details, it's hard to give you advice; once you have a clear understanding of her feelings, you might not even need AskMe.
posted by asnider at 1:51 PM on March 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


My fiancee is upset that I would consider doing something she's "100%, absolutely not comfortable with", because she would never do anything intentionally knowing it would bother me so much as this will bother her.

Except the whole, forbidding you to have the best man of your choice thing.

She needs to get real. This seems like a jealousy issue that has no basis in reality.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:02 PM on March 27, 2012 [2 favorites]


How much time have you spent discussing this with her? Most brides to be want to talk about the relationship, future life together, children, that sort of thing. Perhaps your need to discuss this situation has hurt her, because you are putting the focus on something that shouldn't matter.

Here is what I suggest:
Go to your fiance and apologize for giving this issue so much attention. Assure her that it really is a small thing and you both need to let it go. Ask her if she would consider friending ex on facebook, since you will most likely see each other again, and you want her to be in control of the relationship. Assure her that she is your top priority and you want to do everything you can to make her comfortable.

If she doesn't want the ex at the wedding, then find a different best man. End of story. Do not go to his wedding, either. If you disregard her feelings this early on in the marriage then you may as well not get married. Yes, she is being a bit insecure and childish. But your job as a husband is to make her feel loved and protected from the world. Do your job. Protect her from this thing that makes her feel uncomfortable and then never speak of it again. Keep your focus on your relationship with the woman who will change your diapers when you are old and gray.
posted by myselfasme at 2:10 PM on March 27, 2012 [3 favorites]


+1 on trying to figure out the motives behind her being upset. She may have a valid reason, but if it's simple insecurity, jealousy, and/or a need to control the things you do than you may want to take a long hard look at what you're getting yourself into.

I think she'd be justified in asking you not to go if it was the Ex (and not your buddy) who would be inviting you. But, that's not the case here. As noted above, without more details it's tough to say whether she is jealous and testing the waters to see how much control she can gain or whether she's just stressed from the wedding planning. If it's jealousy or insecurity I doubt it will get better for you unless you deal with it sooner rather than later.
posted by Beacon Inbound at 2:10 PM on March 27, 2012


You sound like my boyfriend. Don't you dare tell her to suck it up, that will make things worse. Learning to deal with her (irrational) feelings is much better for your relationship in the long run.

Her thoughts are basically this: Your fiancée wants you to always pick her side. She wants affirmation that you value her feelings above anyone else's (or at least above that of some old friend's). She's jealous of the fact that this woman was a significant part of your life at one time, and maybe she's concerned about the bad history you eluded to. So overall she feels like you're hypothetically picking your old friends (and life) over her, and it's putting her insecurity into overdrive. Irrational and selfish and untrue, I know.

So you have to talk more with her. You may want to write out some things for guidance during the discussion: a) your feelings about her and how important she is to you, how you want to make her happy and you know she wants your happiness too, b) how you feel about your friendship with this guy, how important that best man pact is to you and why (include lots of feeling words here), c) about that woman, how that relationship went, why you broke up, and why you feel nothing for her now, how you picked Fiancée and why she far outshines that woman (again lots of feeling words about fiancée's awesomeness), and how this other woman just really doesn't matter to you now, aside from her being your buddy's gf, and d) you doubt he'll even ask you anyway because maybe she won't want you there, like your gf doesn't want her at your wedding. What does your gf think will happen if this ex is actually ok with it? Does she think you'll break up the wedding and steal the bride and run off to start a new life with her? (humor will help here).

And let her talk, let her feel heard and that you're doing your best to understand. That you want to get on the same page as her is a good sign and she knows it. And it will be hard for her to discover she won't get her way by throwing a fit, so be gracious if it turns our in your favor. You still have to listen to her and propose compromises, etc.

can you tell I had a similar kind of argument with my bf recently? This is how I wish he'd have handled it. Fantasy boyfriend response. But we're getting closer on the compromising of argument styles.

posted by lizbunny at 2:17 PM on March 27, 2012 [4 favorites]


I think lizbunny is exactly right.
posted by gjc at 2:25 PM on March 27, 2012 [2 favorites]


If you disregard her feelings this early on in the marriage then you may as well not get married.

Of course, she's disregarding his feelings just as much by forcing him -- under one of your hypotheticals -- to get a different best man and refuse to be his friend's best man for no reason other than "I say so." And frankly, if you have to make every decision at the beginning of a marriage understanding it's making you unhappy but justifying it on the basis that you will one day need your incontinence addressed, I think it might not be the right relationship.

More generally, I really don't think it's the job of a man to talk about his feelings in precisely the way his girlfriend/wife wants him to. I'd humbly suggest that if he has to learn to understand what words she needs to hear, then she will also need to learn to understand how to accept expressions of love from him as he naturally gives and makes them, and not to require that he express himself the same way she does. I'm very skeptical about teaching people that it's their job to tell you what you want to hear, because that makes it very difficult to know when they're ... you know, just telling you what you want to hear.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 2:29 PM on March 27, 2012 [9 favorites]


because she would never do anything intentionally knowing it would bother me so much as this will bother her.

Other than what she's doing right now? Because it sounds like this is bothering you for quite justifiable reasons.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:34 PM on March 27, 2012 [3 favorites]


Are you sure you want to marry this woman?
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 3:23 PM on March 27, 2012 [3 favorites]


I agree that she sounds weirdly caught up in this and that you really, really need to talk to her more about where her intense feelings about this come from. This will likely be the easiest of the thousands of hard conversations you'll have during your married life, so if you can't have a fair and honest talk about this, it's really a skill you both have to learn.

But also, I'm wondering if part of it is that she doesn't really know your friend. You said you haven't been close for the last 5 years, so it doesn't sound like he means very much to her at all. Could some piece of her anxiety be that he (and your ex) both represent parts of your past that kind of scare her? A long term relationship that ended and a substance abuse problem are both pretty big deals. I can see why she wouldn't want reminders of those things on the day that the two start a new chapter in your lives together.

Every couple and every wedding is different, but when my husband and I got married, our small wedding party was made up of people who knew, loved, and supported us both. It wasn't "my party and his party" but ours -- our friends, our loved ones, our commitment. It was a real honor to be surrounded by such unconditional affection and support in those special moments.

Although I definitely wouldn't have demanded my husband not pick the best man he wanted, under these circumstances, I wouldn't have been totally comfortable either.
posted by mostlymartha at 4:05 PM on March 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


Although I definitely wouldn't have demanded my husband not pick the best man he wanted, under these circumstances, I wouldn't have been totally comfortable either.

But that's not what she's upset about. She's fine with the friend she doesn't really know being the best man at her wedding. It's not about not wanting the other couple at her own wedding. It's about the fact that he hasn't promised in advance not to attend his best friend's wedding if she tells him he can't.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 4:30 PM on March 27, 2012 [2 favorites]


If its a jealousy thing, I suggest peppering your conversations with things like "better him than me" and "that was my least favorite relationship. Babe, my relationship with you is far better than any relationship I've had in the past".

Mr V. always responds to my jealousy over other women with some variation of "Oh my god, I'm so flattered that you're jealous! That you think that highly of me! But, babe, you've got nothing to worry about. I don't find that girl attractive AT ALL." or "I am sooo much happier in my relationship with you than I was with her!"

And I believe him. (sometimes I choose to believe she isn't very attractive to him. But I never doubt his happiness in our relationship.)
posted by vitabellosi at 5:08 PM on March 27, 2012


I don't think this is at all about jealousy, and the fact that you would write to AskMe without ANY concrete explanation for the reasons behind your fiance's concern tells me:

(A) You're obfuscating about something because (B) there's NO WAY your fiancé didn't explain in great detail exactly what her concerns are. No bueno, dude. You rig the answers when you do that.

I guess there's also (C) that you can't discuss the reasons behind her feelings because you didn't listen to her closely enough. But I super duper hope you did listen to her, because marriage is really hard when one partner shuts the other one down.

Either A, B, or C - it's hard to know how to judge this without any insight into your fiance's reasoning.
posted by jbenben at 9:13 PM on March 27, 2012 [2 favorites]


I am not an advocate of soothing jealousy with an avalanche of compliments or *especially* insults directed at past relationships or other women. That's a perilous pattern to develop, I think, for both parties.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 6:11 AM on March 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think the real reason your fiancé is upset is that you have asked this guy to be your best man at considerably late notice & unbeknownst to your fiancé (and you), your previous ex-gf just happens to be his future fiancé. This adds extra stress & pressure to her and your plans for the day, a shame but there it is.

How does one "choose" between the hypothetical wishes of a long time friend and the feelings of a fiancee? ….. That’s easy – you choose your fiancés wishes.

The question is: Am I wrong? I feel bad that she's upset, ……. Is she being over sensitive, or am I being a non-understanding twit? …… Both you & fiancé are being unreasonable: in a perfect world, you get the best man, best man gets to invite future fiancé, your fiancé treats both guests graciously and you and wife go to bestman and fiancés hypothetical wedding…. ONLY…... You and fiancé have already agreed that it might be a little awkward, so the ex g/f will accompany my friend to FL, but she will not attend the wedding or reception. In all honesty, what are your hypothetical chances of best man and his future fiancé asking you to be best man at their wedding when the time comes, given you and your fiancés lack of acknowledgement of their relationship?

If I was in this boat, I would discuss with your fiancé how important this friendship is to you. Upon her better understanding of how you are also in a compromising situation, I would consider to invite both your friend and his gf to your wedding as guests, but I would not have him as best man. Small compromises to preserve your and wife happiness and maintain long term friendship at same time.

Or accept the fact of the current situation which seems to be a disservice to everyone at the moment i.e. best man flies over with fiancé and he comes to wedding while his gf sits in hotel room and he does his duties grouchily while you and your wife feel terrible then rushes off early to see his gf. (Is this really the experience you all wanted?). Then at hypothetical future wedding, assuming you actually get asked to be best man (unlikely), you and wife can go through the exact same process ~ Do unto others as they do to you?
posted by Under the Sea at 6:16 AM on March 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


Truth be told, this whole thing kind of came up all of a sudden. We had discussed the ex not attending our wedding, and while it wouldn't be the most optimal of situations for me personally, I mostly digressed to her non attendance out of respect for my fiancee and deciding that although I bear no ill will towards my friend, he chose to date my ex, and he needs to be aware that it does present a unique and perhaps awkward situation. Perhaps he felt that given my prior reaction to his dating an ex of mine, and the circumstances under which the new ex and I broke up, that there would also be no issue with this.

His solution to this situation which him and my ex came up with on their own were to have her fly out with him and not attend the wedding. It's a free country, and I'm certainly not going to tell anyone where they can or can't travel, so if they're fine with that, so am I.

I wasn't even thinking about his plans for his own wedding at this point, and my fiancee brought it up, as I guess she had been thinking about it. I did take some advice from this thread last night, and I specifically asked her what her issue was with my ex, as I don't talk to her or have any contact with her, and the break up wasn't a sore point for me, at least. She stated that her concern is that I will be caught up in "what might have been" upon seeing her. I guess this bothers me a little bit, because it alludes to a fundamental insecurity in her perception of the strength of our relationship, or at least this is the way I view it. I did state that I have no interest in this woman, and in fact, did not have much interest in anything besides alcohol for most of this relationship. I have been sober for the duration of my current relationship, so obviously this is not the case with my fiancee. She did say that it was an irrational and perhaps childish fear, but one she felt nevertheless.

I guess my issue with this situation is I feel both obligated to my friend and to my fiancee to do what each of them want, and it so happens that potentially speaking, their desires may lie directly opposite each other, so someone needs to be made unhappy.
posted by Debaser626 at 7:43 AM on March 28, 2012


Huh. "What might have been," really? It's hard to see this going well if that's how she really feels. If she's serious, you need to either (1) do what your fiancee is asking you to do, because a husband should not be subordinating his wife's emotional needs to those of his buddy, or (2) put the brakes on this wedding for a while, because her request is weird and unfair, and you don't respect it or agree with it. I feel like either option would be valid based on what you've described here.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:23 AM on March 28, 2012 [3 favorites]


We spoke a little more about it, and it turns out vocalizing the irrationality of her feelings towards my ex has diminished them somewhat. She was irritated with me about some other "little" things, and combined with the jitters of having a flawless and perfect wedding, and some related feelings of a tad built of guilt of not inviting my ex because of this, has culminated in this current premarital debate. We shall see though, I guess I need to keep an open line of communication about this, and focus more on what the right thing to do is overall for my well being and my future wife's well being than trying to play diplomat in an undiplomatic situation. Thanks all for your input! I really enjoyed hearing the differing opinions and I think that each and every person has a valid opinion given the information provided. :)
posted by Debaser626 at 9:45 AM on March 28, 2012 [5 favorites]


A best man has to do more than simply turn up at a wedding - he sits with the groom and bride and makes a speech and toasts the couple and takes up more of an intimate role in the marriage ceremony than mere guest. At your wedding this would seem to me to be less problematic than your friend's possible wedding to your ex-girlfriend. Untangling the difference might help you think things through with your fiancee.

If you take your fiancee's concerns about not wanting ex-partners at your wedding, it's a relatively simple thing to ask for your friend's understanding in not bringing your ex-girlfriend to your wedding. Especially as "My long time friend decided to tell me two weeks ago..." that he was involved with your ex and planning to marry her. I get that lots of people are fine with ex-partners coming to their weddings, but also that your fiancee is not unusual or 'controlling' in expressing her desire that it not happen at her/your wedding. Making a decision about this is not territory that's untraveled in the history of weddings - I don't think it's fair to personalise your fiancee's position as particularly needy. It's your/her day and not wanting ex-partners there is fair enough.

And in your fiancee's defence, I can see why it's not necessarily a simple quid pro quo for you to be your friend's best man even if he is yours. He's your friend and his role in toasting and speaking in public about, your fiancee/wife is relatively uncomplicated. You would, if it's a traditional wedding, have to toast your ex-girlfriend and friend and speak publicly about their relationship to everyone at the reception. This is taking up a more intimate involvement with their marriage, and is more complicated than merely toasting your mate who's not marrying your ex. ie You wouldn't be best-manning in the same emotional or intimacy situation as your friend is best-manning for you.

This is a detail that matters. I don't think you need to hash it out with your fiancee before your wedding or until, as you say, the hypothetical situation becomes a real one. For now, you could acknowledge her point of view as one that does have merit. And I'd kinda want my husband to be able to understand, without me having a conniption, that toasting my ex-girlfriend's wedding and playing an intimate part in their nuptials might be more problematic than originally assumed. And more importantly, I'd want my partner to assume good faith feelings from me when I raise this as an issue, not leap to the assumption that I am trying to 'control' him when I raise my concerns.

I still admire my ex-partners and I'd be a bit sad if I couldn't be a guest at their wedding, especially since their new partners have become my good friends too. But it would still be a bit weird if they asked me to be in their Wedding Party and toast them in front of everyone.
posted by honey-barbara at 6:26 PM on March 28, 2012


I am not an advocate of soothing jealousy with an avalanche of compliments or *especially* insults directed at past relationships or other women. That's a perilous pattern to develop, I think, for both parties.

Meh.

It's hardly an avalanche, and I guess it's the veracity that makes the difference.

I'm also really happy to hear about his past good experiences, whether they were with exes or not. Perhaps I should've amended my comment to read "but don't do it if it's not true."
posted by vitabellosi at 3:37 PM on March 29, 2012


« Older [family support question] my p...   |  Germany has the Oktoberfest, B... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.