What is love (love)? Baby don't hurt me...(Hideo) Nomo.
August 3, 2010 4:34 AM Subscribe
Is my girlfriend's behavior incongruent?
I'm 28, she's 18. We met at school (grad student; freshman undergrad) through friends. We quickly began dating and fell in love (my first time) soon thereafter. We've been dating six months.
We have a very solid relationship: we're able to resolve just about every conflict, good communcation, comfortable enough to pee in front of each other, marvelous sex, always holding hands, good relationship with one anothers' family, etc.
Some of her behaviors really confuse me, however. When it comes to my insecurities, I've opened up completely, even the deep dark secrets that I've never told a soul, the kind of stuff that would make people cringe. I also used to have a habit of lying compulsively (quite unwittingly -- self-awareness discussions brought this out; I now catch myself). The relationship developed quickly. She learned all this about me within weeks. And she took it all in stride.
We have a lot in common, but our differences are quite striking: very outgoing vs. very introverted, very trusting vs. very cautious, very confident vs. very insecure.
That last one is what really confuses me...
In the relationship, the love and trust we share emboldens me. I feel like I can do no wrong, and I'm completely comfortable being my weird, dorky self. However, it's the flip with my girlfriend: she tells me she's more insecure around me than anyone else (BECAUSE of love -- ??). In terms of the insecurities she's shared with me, informing me she had a slutty past in high school was the apex of her embarrassment, as well as the usual body image issues (slender, beautiful).
Anyway, when I ask her what she has to be insecure about, and how my presence can make her even more self-conscious, she explains that she's intimidated by me and just cares what I think too much. When I try to get her to open up, she shuts down completely and says ignoring it is the only way to make her insecurities go away. And then I'm shut out.
I guess I just don't get it. Of course, I'm a neophyte to love, but there's no unmistakable feeling of opening myself up completely to my partner.
Is there a crack of some kind here? Is this behavior incongruent to what loving someone really means?
Additional info: we're very comfortable talking about a future together (kids, marriage -- realistic, too: 5+ years down the line if things work out), she's bi and new to the idea, and I've given her carte blanche to explore her sexuality with women (a couple one-night stands so far), she's quite sheltered and incredibly sensitive (pouts at even the most harmless comments -- my ADHD, witty self is constantly on egg shells); developmentally, in the time we've dated, she's gone from hardcore Christian to agnostic, grappled with existentialism, and divorced herself from the Hollywood-esque/Disney notion of "true love" (i.e., soul mates exist).
Conjectures welcome.
I'm 28, she's 18. We met at school (grad student; freshman undergrad) through friends. We quickly began dating and fell in love (my first time) soon thereafter. We've been dating six months.
We have a very solid relationship: we're able to resolve just about every conflict, good communcation, comfortable enough to pee in front of each other, marvelous sex, always holding hands, good relationship with one anothers' family, etc.
Some of her behaviors really confuse me, however. When it comes to my insecurities, I've opened up completely, even the deep dark secrets that I've never told a soul, the kind of stuff that would make people cringe. I also used to have a habit of lying compulsively (quite unwittingly -- self-awareness discussions brought this out; I now catch myself). The relationship developed quickly. She learned all this about me within weeks. And she took it all in stride.
We have a lot in common, but our differences are quite striking: very outgoing vs. very introverted, very trusting vs. very cautious, very confident vs. very insecure.
That last one is what really confuses me...
In the relationship, the love and trust we share emboldens me. I feel like I can do no wrong, and I'm completely comfortable being my weird, dorky self. However, it's the flip with my girlfriend: she tells me she's more insecure around me than anyone else (BECAUSE of love -- ??). In terms of the insecurities she's shared with me, informing me she had a slutty past in high school was the apex of her embarrassment, as well as the usual body image issues (slender, beautiful).
Anyway, when I ask her what she has to be insecure about, and how my presence can make her even more self-conscious, she explains that she's intimidated by me and just cares what I think too much. When I try to get her to open up, she shuts down completely and says ignoring it is the only way to make her insecurities go away. And then I'm shut out.
I guess I just don't get it. Of course, I'm a neophyte to love, but there's no unmistakable feeling of opening myself up completely to my partner.
Is there a crack of some kind here? Is this behavior incongruent to what loving someone really means?
Additional info: we're very comfortable talking about a future together (kids, marriage -- realistic, too: 5+ years down the line if things work out), she's bi and new to the idea, and I've given her carte blanche to explore her sexuality with women (a couple one-night stands so far), she's quite sheltered and incredibly sensitive (pouts at even the most harmless comments -- my ADHD, witty self is constantly on egg shells); developmentally, in the time we've dated, she's gone from hardcore Christian to agnostic, grappled with existentialism, and divorced herself from the Hollywood-esque/Disney notion of "true love" (i.e., soul mates exist).
Conjectures welcome.
You're a decade older than she is, she's a freshman in college.
Of course you two have different experiences/views of the world. 28 is a world away from 18.
posted by dfriedman at 4:48 AM on August 3, 2010 [21 favorites]
Of course you two have different experiences/views of the world. 28 is a world away from 18.
posted by dfriedman at 4:48 AM on August 3, 2010 [21 favorites]
My quick answer is that she's 18 and your 28. There is usually a tremendous difference in life experience and maturity b/w 18 and 28. No judgement here but if you want a partner with self confidence and security, I would look to someone in your age bracket. Get used to her emotional immaturity if you plan on staying.
posted by WhiteWhale at 4:48 AM on August 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by WhiteWhale at 4:48 AM on August 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
I felt that way at 18 around anyone I perceived to be older, smarter, and more experienced (but still vaguely part of my peer group), sexual relationship or not.
posted by 1UP at 4:48 AM on August 3, 2010
posted by 1UP at 4:48 AM on August 3, 2010
To elaborate, 18-year-olds change a lot. Think about yourself when you were that age. I bet you're a lot different now. Also, teenagers are notoriously insecure. These are just the things you get with 18-year-olds, and it probably seems weird and confusing to you because it's been a while since you were that age.
I'm not saying age differences can't work, but be aware that while you're at a much more settled place in your life, she isn't and there is probably a higher possibility with a relationship with an 18 y/o that she may "grow out" of your relationship or change a lot as a person to where you're no longer compatible. This can happen at any age, but is more likely when people are at an age when they're changing really rapidly.
posted by elpea at 4:49 AM on August 3, 2010
I'm not saying age differences can't work, but be aware that while you're at a much more settled place in your life, she isn't and there is probably a higher possibility with a relationship with an 18 y/o that she may "grow out" of your relationship or change a lot as a person to where you're no longer compatible. This can happen at any age, but is more likely when people are at an age when they're changing really rapidly.
posted by elpea at 4:49 AM on August 3, 2010
Seconding elpea. She is a teenager, this is how teenagers (and in my humble opinion perhaps more often teenaged girls*) behave.
*Yes, I know, woman, but I still shudder to think of 18 year olds as men and women, even if they are legally so. They have so far to go and so much to learn.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 4:52 AM on August 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
*Yes, I know, woman, but I still shudder to think of 18 year olds as men and women, even if they are legally so. They have so far to go and so much to learn.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 4:52 AM on August 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
So this girl drastically changed her religion, suddenly gets carte blanche with women, and is in a relationship with a guy 10 years older than herself at a time in her life when all of these things matter a great deal. Hmmmm.. I hate to be cold, but my conjecture is that she just went through a lot and is not quite ready for 28-year-old relationships. Kindly do her a favor and leave her alone for awhile ("awhile" can be 6 months or 6 years - just please leave this girl alone!) She's just a kid! You're all grown-up, and have already had your shot at "agnostic, want kids, it's not Disney." She hasn't. Let her have that and you go have relationships with adults.
You can politely explain to her that you two are at very different points in your lives, and it will do neither one of you any good to stay together. She might cry at that, but it's because she's just a kid! She'll live! Whether you will is a different story - I'm sorry, but dating someone that much younger is a recipe for disaster, and you need to leave that girl alone right now. 18 might be legal, but that doesn't make it right for you to be doing this.
posted by deep thought sunstar at 5:03 AM on August 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
You can politely explain to her that you two are at very different points in your lives, and it will do neither one of you any good to stay together. She might cry at that, but it's because she's just a kid! She'll live! Whether you will is a different story - I'm sorry, but dating someone that much younger is a recipe for disaster, and you need to leave that girl alone right now. 18 might be legal, but that doesn't make it right for you to be doing this.
posted by deep thought sunstar at 5:03 AM on August 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
You say that in the six months you've been dating, "she's gone from hardcore Christian to agnostic, grappled with existentialism, and divorced herself from the Hollywood-esque/Disney notion of "true love" (i.e., soul mates exist)" and she's also newly bisexual. All happening within six months' time.
Please be careful with your heart - it sounds like she's trying on a lot of hats, and (frankly) you may be one of them. This is nothing against her - being 18 and in college (undergrad) is exactly the right time for this kind of casting about for identity. But don't build your castle on the shifting sands of this young lady - at least not yet. Being in love is wonderful, enjoy that.
posted by pammeke at 5:04 AM on August 3, 2010 [23 favorites]
Please be careful with your heart - it sounds like she's trying on a lot of hats, and (frankly) you may be one of them. This is nothing against her - being 18 and in college (undergrad) is exactly the right time for this kind of casting about for identity. But don't build your castle on the shifting sands of this young lady - at least not yet. Being in love is wonderful, enjoy that.
posted by pammeke at 5:04 AM on August 3, 2010 [23 favorites]
When I try to get her to open up, she shuts down completely and says ignoring it is the only way to make her insecurities go away. And then I'm shut out.
That isn't "you being shut out" that's "her not wanting to talk about it" and a request for you to respect her boundaries, which it seems like she's in the process of figuring out.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:17 AM on August 3, 2010 [7 favorites]
That isn't "you being shut out" that's "her not wanting to talk about it" and a request for you to respect her boundaries, which it seems like she's in the process of figuring out.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:17 AM on August 3, 2010 [7 favorites]
When I was 18-20 I had a relationship with a guy substantially older than me (35-37). It wasn't a bad experience, but I changed a lot within those years and eventually didn't want to be with that guy. Be prepared for this one not to last as she grows up.
posted by Daily Alice at 5:25 AM on August 3, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by Daily Alice at 5:25 AM on August 3, 2010 [6 favorites]
I don't think attributing these issues to age difference will help you deal with this. 18 year olds is a very diverse group.
Though you say she shuts you out at times she seems to have shared a lot about herself and with you. Maybe, the problem gets worse when you try to "solve" these feelings of insecurity she has. Maybe they are just a part of where your relationship are and to be accepted not "solved". Since you two seem to planning a future together, both of you seem willing to accept these feelings as part of the process, and maybe that rather than problematizing is the way to go.
posted by okokok at 5:30 AM on August 3, 2010
Though you say she shuts you out at times she seems to have shared a lot about herself and with you. Maybe, the problem gets worse when you try to "solve" these feelings of insecurity she has. Maybe they are just a part of where your relationship are and to be accepted not "solved". Since you two seem to planning a future together, both of you seem willing to accept these feelings as part of the process, and maybe that rather than problematizing is the way to go.
posted by okokok at 5:30 AM on August 3, 2010
I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with a 10 year age gap, but 28 to 18 is much more significant, I think, than say 40 to 30. At 18 she's barely an adult, and college is really extended adolescence for most people. You may feel that you are in the same 'place' because you are a grad student, but that's worlds apart from being a freshman -- think how much you've changed in the last 10 years. Part of her 'closing down' may be a reaction to the sense that she's suddenly in this 'serious' relationship (you're 28, understandably, and talking about marriage and kids) when all her peers are having fun at college. Just b/c she's gone through a 'slutty phase' in high school doesn't mean the next step is marriage -- there's a lot of stuff in between those things.
I don't want to be too negative here because I'm sure you guys have a great time together, but I think you need to approach this a little more cautiously and with some more realistic expectations -- you said this is the first time you've been in love, and you may be subconsciously building her up to be 'the one' because, hey, you're 28 and I'm guessing lots of your peers are in serious relationships.
Finally, this:
my ADHD, witty self is constantly on egg shells
Being on egg-shells around a partner, whatever the cause, is no way to lead a life...
posted by modernnomad at 5:36 AM on August 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
I don't want to be too negative here because I'm sure you guys have a great time together, but I think you need to approach this a little more cautiously and with some more realistic expectations -- you said this is the first time you've been in love, and you may be subconsciously building her up to be 'the one' because, hey, you're 28 and I'm guessing lots of your peers are in serious relationships.
Finally, this:
my ADHD, witty self is constantly on egg shells
Being on egg-shells around a partner, whatever the cause, is no way to lead a life...
posted by modernnomad at 5:36 AM on August 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
18 is fine. And it used to be the norm (and still is in many parts of the world) for older men to develop relationships with girls that age. It is in fact a very recent phenomenon manifesting itself in the West primarily. Hell, it was only a century ago when Pres. Grover Cleveland married a 21 year olds while in office-- he was 49.
She's old enough to be held accountable for her actions, executed if she commits a murder, have an abortion, drive a 5000 pound vehicle at speeds which could kill, and vote. She's been having sexual relationships longer than you have and you may be in fact providing the only loving relationship she has ever had that is not purely based on sex. It seems hypocritical to me that society encourages girls that age to go out and "find themselves" an experiment in ways which carry both health and emotional risks. you have a real relationship and that's respectable.
Don't let others here demonize you. People that have this age hang up have a very short view of history and not a very world centric view. 60% of girls still get married at the age of 16 in Asia according to an article I saw by the Associated Press. I'm willing to bet your intentions are certainly more noble than the average male in her age group, so I take great issue with the above poster trying to say what you're doing is wrong. Guys at my university treated freshman as "fresh meat". Why is it acceptable for her to be in that environment and subjected to that kind of treatment rather than a loving relationship?
all that being said, there are differences. In some ways this girl might be more mature than you are and has developed certain coping mechanisms. If she's had several shallow relationships is understandable why she doesn't want to open up her anyway. This is your first time and you want to throw your heart into it. She's probably been there and done that and ended up hurt before. You have to appreciate her for the underlying person that she is and realize that there will be differences. Give it time.
posted by chinabound at 5:38 AM on August 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
She's old enough to be held accountable for her actions, executed if she commits a murder, have an abortion, drive a 5000 pound vehicle at speeds which could kill, and vote. She's been having sexual relationships longer than you have and you may be in fact providing the only loving relationship she has ever had that is not purely based on sex. It seems hypocritical to me that society encourages girls that age to go out and "find themselves" an experiment in ways which carry both health and emotional risks. you have a real relationship and that's respectable.
Don't let others here demonize you. People that have this age hang up have a very short view of history and not a very world centric view. 60% of girls still get married at the age of 16 in Asia according to an article I saw by the Associated Press. I'm willing to bet your intentions are certainly more noble than the average male in her age group, so I take great issue with the above poster trying to say what you're doing is wrong. Guys at my university treated freshman as "fresh meat". Why is it acceptable for her to be in that environment and subjected to that kind of treatment rather than a loving relationship?
all that being said, there are differences. In some ways this girl might be more mature than you are and has developed certain coping mechanisms. If she's had several shallow relationships is understandable why she doesn't want to open up her anyway. This is your first time and you want to throw your heart into it. She's probably been there and done that and ended up hurt before. You have to appreciate her for the underlying person that she is and realize that there will be differences. Give it time.
posted by chinabound at 5:38 AM on August 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
Additional info: we're very comfortable talking about a future together (kids, marriage -- realistic, too: 5+ years down the line if things work out), she's bi and new to the idea, and I've given her carte blanche to explore her sexuality with women (a couple one-night stands so far), she's quite sheltered and incredibly sensitive (pouts at even the most harmless comments -- my ADHD, witty self is constantly on egg shells); developmentally, in the time we've dated, she's gone from hardcore Christian to agnostic, grappled with existentialism, and divorced herself from the Hollywood-esque/Disney notion of "true love" (i.e., soul mates exist)
She's comfortable talking about things 5+ years down the line, but I wouldn't call that realistic. There's nothing tangible or permanent when you're 18; like you said, her religious and philosophical beliefs have changed significantly since you met. At 18, you're going to want to be a lot of things before you settle on who you are.
18 year olds change religions, friends, majors, drug usage, jobs and houses like they're disposable because they are, at that age. You can't expect congruency because there isn't one; life at 18 is about being bombarded by newness, in ideas, people, experiences and opportunities. At 28, you've seen enough to get consistency; at 18, you've seen enough to know you want to see more.
Don't expect too much; if you want your relationship to last, let her know how you feel but do not try to pin her into being consistent, because you'll end up disappointed and she'll feel held back. Let her grow. I think Khalil Gibran can provide some insight:
But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure,
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor,
Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears.
Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed;
For love is sufficient unto love.
posted by Hiker at 5:41 AM on August 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
She's comfortable talking about things 5+ years down the line, but I wouldn't call that realistic. There's nothing tangible or permanent when you're 18; like you said, her religious and philosophical beliefs have changed significantly since you met. At 18, you're going to want to be a lot of things before you settle on who you are.
18 year olds change religions, friends, majors, drug usage, jobs and houses like they're disposable because they are, at that age. You can't expect congruency because there isn't one; life at 18 is about being bombarded by newness, in ideas, people, experiences and opportunities. At 28, you've seen enough to get consistency; at 18, you've seen enough to know you want to see more.
Don't expect too much; if you want your relationship to last, let her know how you feel but do not try to pin her into being consistent, because you'll end up disappointed and she'll feel held back. Let her grow. I think Khalil Gibran can provide some insight:
But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure,
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor,
Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears.
Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed;
For love is sufficient unto love.
posted by Hiker at 5:41 AM on August 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
When I try to get her to open up, she shuts down completely and says ignoring it is the only way to make her insecurities go away. And then I'm shut out.That isn't "you being shut out" that's "her not wanting to talk about it" and a request for you to respect her boundaries, which it seems like she's in the process of figuring out.
I disagree. I think it's poison in a relationship. Having "good communication" doesn't just mean you can decide where to go for dinner without it turning into an hour-long debate, it also encompasses things that are difficult to communicate. Shutting people out is a classic move (of the younger age group generally) and is, to reiterate, poison.
Having good communication is key, and having good communication necessitates being able to talk about things that upset you. No excuses for being young, exploring, etc. Either she learns to talk or the relationship dies--seriously. It's either an accumulation of absurdly unimportant topics you're talking about before you're suddenly shut out or you finally get to one big enough that you can't make your way around it (whichever comes first).
posted by resiny at 5:43 AM on August 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Please be careful with your heart - it sounds like she's trying on a lot of hats, and (frankly) you may be one of them.
posted by pammeke
I'm sorry, but this. As a former 19 year old undergrad who dated her 31 year-old TA, I'd caution you against any 5 year plan with someone who, no matter how mature they seem, is still so volatile and unpredictable Some statistics of the heart, if you will: an 18 year old grows and changes so, so much in the span it takes her to get to 23 years. A 28 year old growing into a 33 year old? Not so much. Remember what it's like to be young and full of myriad identities all trying to bubble to the surface? She'll be going through that for the next few years before she decides on jobs, kids, relationships.
Enjoy the relationship in its immediacy, don't forget that she's a full decade younger than you, ad definitely don't spend much time on that 5 year plan for the next 2 years.
posted by zoomorphic at 5:52 AM on August 3, 2010 [8 favorites]
posted by pammeke
I'm sorry, but this. As a former 19 year old undergrad who dated her 31 year-old TA, I'd caution you against any 5 year plan with someone who, no matter how mature they seem, is still so volatile and unpredictable Some statistics of the heart, if you will: an 18 year old grows and changes so, so much in the span it takes her to get to 23 years. A 28 year old growing into a 33 year old? Not so much. Remember what it's like to be young and full of myriad identities all trying to bubble to the surface? She'll be going through that for the next few years before she decides on jobs, kids, relationships.
Enjoy the relationship in its immediacy, don't forget that she's a full decade younger than you, ad definitely don't spend much time on that 5 year plan for the next 2 years.
posted by zoomorphic at 5:52 AM on August 3, 2010 [8 favorites]
Anyway, when I ask her what she has to be insecure about, and how my presence can make her even more self-conscious, she explains that she's intimidated by me and just cares what I think too much. When I try to get her to open up, she shuts down completely and says ignoring it is the only way to make her insecurities go away. And then I'm shut out.
The way I see it, my partner isn't under any moral obligation to tell me all her secrets and most private thoughts. If she wants to, if talking about things makes her feel better, I'll gladly listen; if she'd rather keep some things to herself, that's fine with me too.
I expect my partner to extend the same courtesy to me; I routinely keep things private from my partner.
If she thinks the best way of dealing with her insecurities is not to dissect them in front of you, I say respect her wishes and accept the fact she deals with these things differently to you.
posted by Mike1024 at 5:54 AM on August 3, 2010 [7 favorites]
The way I see it, my partner isn't under any moral obligation to tell me all her secrets and most private thoughts. If she wants to, if talking about things makes her feel better, I'll gladly listen; if she'd rather keep some things to herself, that's fine with me too.
I expect my partner to extend the same courtesy to me; I routinely keep things private from my partner.
If she thinks the best way of dealing with her insecurities is not to dissect them in front of you, I say respect her wishes and accept the fact she deals with these things differently to you.
posted by Mike1024 at 5:54 AM on August 3, 2010 [7 favorites]
To elaborate, 18-year-olds change a lot.
Yes. Don't talk about marriage and kids yet. I was in a relationship when I was 18, I'm now your age - I grew out of him, and I'm glad we're no longer together. Not saying that you'll automatically break up, but teenagers are still figuring out who they are and what they want and this may not end up co-inciding so neatly with what you do.
posted by mippy at 6:03 AM on August 3, 2010
Yes. Don't talk about marriage and kids yet. I was in a relationship when I was 18, I'm now your age - I grew out of him, and I'm glad we're no longer together. Not saying that you'll automatically break up, but teenagers are still figuring out who they are and what they want and this may not end up co-inciding so neatly with what you do.
posted by mippy at 6:03 AM on August 3, 2010
She's 18. She's still figuring herself out (as you have amply proven in your post) and she's not comfortable sharing her thought process with you while she is figuring herself out. Trouble is, she's 18. There will be years and years and YEARS of figuring herself out ahead of her. Years and years and years and years.
You're dating a woman on the cusp of adulthood. You can rationalize it as much as you want, you love her, it feels right, you want to share every dark, dank, secret with her, want to marry her and have babies, and your 28-year-old self is more than happy with this plan. She's 18. She may be the most mature 18-year-old on the planet, but she's missing a whole decade of experience. She's intimidated by you because you're an adult she cares about, wants to impress, and doesn't want to disappoint. And that's perfectly normal because she's 18.
It has nothing to do with how she views love and relationships and sharing everything and whatnot. She is not at your level, in terms of life experience, figuring herself out, finding her confidence, hell, six months down the line she may realize she's a lesbian who wants to join the peace corps, or move to Seattle, or become an oceanographer, or never want kids, or realize she likes the senior on the crew team. You are forcing this process of discovery for her, because you're scared of her not keeping pace with you. You've experienced all these revelations, love!, acceptance!, desire for marriage and kids!, and kinda need her to get them out of the way so you can settle down.
You can't, she can't, she's still growing up. Take it easy, for god's sake don't take it personally, and let her lead. Don't even think of listening to those who tell you it's normal for a grown ass man to be in a relationship with a teenager because it was "historically acceptable". How much choice do you think those girls had? None, and in any case, she's a teenager in this society, and in this society she has a lot of growing up to do yet. You can work things out, but not if you push and cajole and feel "shut out" every time she has to process something.
Also, you seem to be the one who needs a remedial lesson in the lack of "Disney's true love," not her.
posted by lydhre at 6:04 AM on August 3, 2010 [16 favorites]
You're dating a woman on the cusp of adulthood. You can rationalize it as much as you want, you love her, it feels right, you want to share every dark, dank, secret with her, want to marry her and have babies, and your 28-year-old self is more than happy with this plan. She's 18. She may be the most mature 18-year-old on the planet, but she's missing a whole decade of experience. She's intimidated by you because you're an adult she cares about, wants to impress, and doesn't want to disappoint. And that's perfectly normal because she's 18.
It has nothing to do with how she views love and relationships and sharing everything and whatnot. She is not at your level, in terms of life experience, figuring herself out, finding her confidence, hell, six months down the line she may realize she's a lesbian who wants to join the peace corps, or move to Seattle, or become an oceanographer, or never want kids, or realize she likes the senior on the crew team. You are forcing this process of discovery for her, because you're scared of her not keeping pace with you. You've experienced all these revelations, love!, acceptance!, desire for marriage and kids!, and kinda need her to get them out of the way so you can settle down.
You can't, she can't, she's still growing up. Take it easy, for god's sake don't take it personally, and let her lead. Don't even think of listening to those who tell you it's normal for a grown ass man to be in a relationship with a teenager because it was "historically acceptable". How much choice do you think those girls had? None, and in any case, she's a teenager in this society, and in this society she has a lot of growing up to do yet. You can work things out, but not if you push and cajole and feel "shut out" every time she has to process something.
Also, you seem to be the one who needs a remedial lesson in the lack of "Disney's true love," not her.
posted by lydhre at 6:04 AM on August 3, 2010 [16 favorites]
Sure, ten years is a very common age gap, as some people are pointing out. It's not automatically a deal-breaker.
Some of her behaviors really confuse me, however.
You do seem to think there are problems in the relationship and that they all lie with her. Is this the age difference or not? Don't know but it seems likely that that's part of it. Even if it's not, this relationship would sound better to me if I didn't get the sense that you're putting her under a microscope and not even allowing for the possibility that some of the problems might be yours.
posted by BibiRose at 6:08 AM on August 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Some of her behaviors really confuse me, however.
You do seem to think there are problems in the relationship and that they all lie with her. Is this the age difference or not? Don't know but it seems likely that that's part of it. Even if it's not, this relationship would sound better to me if I didn't get the sense that you're putting her under a microscope and not even allowing for the possibility that some of the problems might be yours.
posted by BibiRose at 6:08 AM on August 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
I dated an 18-year-old briefly when I was 21, and the whole time I thought "wow, we're at totally different places in our lives." People change a lot during those few years, and sometimes you don't realize how far you've come until you befriend someone who's starting on their own journey.
Neither of you can guarantee she'll be in the same place in another six months, let alone five years. In the meantime, be the best boyfriend you can be - supportive and patient, but give her plenty of space and trust her to work out her own stuff. If it lasts, you'll have a solid foundation for a good relationship; if not, it will leave you both better people.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:19 AM on August 3, 2010
Neither of you can guarantee she'll be in the same place in another six months, let alone five years. In the meantime, be the best boyfriend you can be - supportive and patient, but give her plenty of space and trust her to work out her own stuff. If it lasts, you'll have a solid foundation for a good relationship; if not, it will leave you both better people.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:19 AM on August 3, 2010
She's 18 and seeing the world for the first time as an adult. You're 28 and, apparently, broody. Forget about kids, life-plans; relax and enjoy it. Or you may drive her away. 99:1 she'll leave you anyway. Even though you really love each other. But freaking out about her particularities ain't going to help her stay.
posted by londongeezer at 6:24 AM on August 3, 2010
posted by londongeezer at 6:24 AM on August 3, 2010
I agree with everything above, but, stepping back, I caution you against expecting or demanding 'congruency' in future relationships. Anyone, yourself included, will begin to appear inconsistent under close enough scrutiny. A good relationship is one where you accept and love your partner, to drop the biggest cliché ever, for who they are.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 6:34 AM on August 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 6:34 AM on August 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think a lot of what your seeing is a result of the imbalanced power dynamic in your relationship. You're older, have had more life experience, and more time to figure out what sort of person you are. You can talk freely about, say, being a compulsive liar, because you know that you are no longer a compulsive liar, and you know that being a compulsive liar is not something you want to become again.
It's much more confusing when you're 18 - is she sure she never wants to be a Christian again? Does she want to give up sleeping with lots of dudes forever? It's natural to waiver on who your core self is during the college years, and there's no way she's going to tell you if she doesn't know it herself (which is completely okay, especially at 18).
I'm actually not really sure what more you want out of her, because it seems like she's told you some of the the secrets she does have, in a similar manner to the secrets you've told her.
The other comment I have is to be really, really careful about your ADHD-jokes. They may seem harmless or hilarious to you, but in a relationship with your sort of power dynamic jokes can take on a mean tinge and can really mess up trust and open communications.
I would guess that dismissive jokes are actually what's keeping her insecure and from acting more comfortable around her. You might think your jokes are hilarious and not hurtful, but she's reacting negatively to them - "pouting", as you dismissively claim - she is communicating with you, but you can't hear it because she's not saying what you want her to say.
posted by fermezporte at 7:30 AM on August 3, 2010
It's much more confusing when you're 18 - is she sure she never wants to be a Christian again? Does she want to give up sleeping with lots of dudes forever? It's natural to waiver on who your core self is during the college years, and there's no way she's going to tell you if she doesn't know it herself (which is completely okay, especially at 18).
I'm actually not really sure what more you want out of her, because it seems like she's told you some of the the secrets she does have, in a similar manner to the secrets you've told her.
The other comment I have is to be really, really careful about your ADHD-jokes. They may seem harmless or hilarious to you, but in a relationship with your sort of power dynamic jokes can take on a mean tinge and can really mess up trust and open communications.
I would guess that dismissive jokes are actually what's keeping her insecure and from acting more comfortable around her. You might think your jokes are hilarious and not hurtful, but she's reacting negatively to them - "pouting", as you dismissively claim - she is communicating with you, but you can't hear it because she's not saying what you want her to say.
posted by fermezporte at 7:30 AM on August 3, 2010
she's quite sheltered and incredibly sensitive (pouts at even the most harmless comments -- my ADHD, witty self is constantly on egg shells)
Hmm. I can't help wondering about the dynamic going on here. You describe her as "incredibly sensitive", but could it be that sometimes you can be a little insensitive, yourself? Maybe she "shuts you out" simply because your "harmless and witty" comments could hurt her feelings or make her feel embarrassed, especially if she's open, candid and vulnerable. Which brings me to:
developmentally, in the time we've dated, she's gone from hardcore Christian to agnostic, grappled with existentialism, and divorced herself from the Hollywood-esque/Disney notion of "true love"
How much of this has been due to your influence?
I'm asking because a teenager may feel a lot of pressure to appear smarter, more grown up and worldly when dating someone considerably older and as confident as you are. And if she's been going through this personal development partly because of you, or for you - to "reach your level" of emotional and intellectual maturity, or to (appear to) be someone she feels you'd dig more or be impressed by - that would be an obvious reason why she might be reluctant to fully reveal the awkward, unsophisticated little girl she probably still feels like deep down.
I'm not trying to cast you as the bad guy here. If this is your first serious relationship, you're still learning the ropes, too. But could it be that some of that confidence and invulnerability you seem to feel actually stems from the fact that in spite of your relative inexperience compared to most people your age, you're still the more mature one here and thus have the upper hand in some ways?
Also, I could be reading things into what you wrote, but there is an undertone of "How can I change/mold her" in your post. It's useful to realize that both parties contribute to the dynamic of their relationship, and you can influence things a lot by casting a critical look upon yourself and trying to figure out what changes you yourself can and need to make.
posted by sively at 7:49 AM on August 3, 2010 [6 favorites]
Hmm. I can't help wondering about the dynamic going on here. You describe her as "incredibly sensitive", but could it be that sometimes you can be a little insensitive, yourself? Maybe she "shuts you out" simply because your "harmless and witty" comments could hurt her feelings or make her feel embarrassed, especially if she's open, candid and vulnerable. Which brings me to:
developmentally, in the time we've dated, she's gone from hardcore Christian to agnostic, grappled with existentialism, and divorced herself from the Hollywood-esque/Disney notion of "true love"
How much of this has been due to your influence?
I'm asking because a teenager may feel a lot of pressure to appear smarter, more grown up and worldly when dating someone considerably older and as confident as you are. And if she's been going through this personal development partly because of you, or for you - to "reach your level" of emotional and intellectual maturity, or to (appear to) be someone she feels you'd dig more or be impressed by - that would be an obvious reason why she might be reluctant to fully reveal the awkward, unsophisticated little girl she probably still feels like deep down.
I'm not trying to cast you as the bad guy here. If this is your first serious relationship, you're still learning the ropes, too. But could it be that some of that confidence and invulnerability you seem to feel actually stems from the fact that in spite of your relative inexperience compared to most people your age, you're still the more mature one here and thus have the upper hand in some ways?
Also, I could be reading things into what you wrote, but there is an undertone of "How can I change/mold her" in your post. It's useful to realize that both parties contribute to the dynamic of their relationship, and you can influence things a lot by casting a critical look upon yourself and trying to figure out what changes you yourself can and need to make.
posted by sively at 7:49 AM on August 3, 2010 [6 favorites]
Your girlfriend is emotionally immature (par the course at 18) and she reeks of someone who just fled teh nest for the first time and is now able to try out sexuality and religious beliefs that her parents have not introduced her to and may not accept. You are most likely part of this flavor of the week package unless she has dated much more older and mature men before, which she probably hasn't since a 10 year age gap would have been illegal less than a year ago.
I'm sorry, but I just don't see this working out long term. I think you are too heavily invested because you are a late bloomer and lack experience while she is too undecided on what she really wants because this is the first time in her life where she can really experiment with possible futures. I would look for someone that can at least go to a bar with you.
posted by WeekendJen at 7:50 AM on August 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'm sorry, but I just don't see this working out long term. I think you are too heavily invested because you are a late bloomer and lack experience while she is too undecided on what she really wants because this is the first time in her life where she can really experiment with possible futures. I would look for someone that can at least go to a bar with you.
posted by WeekendJen at 7:50 AM on August 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
You mention that, in times past, you had a compulsive lying habit--one that would occasionally erupt "unwittingly." You're over this now, but is it possible that, in the opening stage of your relationship, you were untruthful on one or two issues? If so, immediately right this wrong. You owe it to her.
I'm hoping that your username, Mach3avelli, is a clever pun that in no way reflects your personality. This is not a relationship in which any Machiavellian contortions have a place. You want to be fully open, fully honest, fully upfront.
posted by Gordion Knott at 8:14 AM on August 3, 2010
I'm hoping that your username, Mach3avelli, is a clever pun that in no way reflects your personality. This is not a relationship in which any Machiavellian contortions have a place. You want to be fully open, fully honest, fully upfront.
posted by Gordion Knott at 8:14 AM on August 3, 2010
>>informing me she had a slutty past in high school was the apex of her embarrassment
Did she describe it as "slutty," or is that your term? Actually, even if she did I doubt it helped at all for you to take up the term - wouldn't that confirm the negative value judgments she's probably already encountered about her high school choices? If I were embarrassed about something in my past, and shared it anyway, only to have my partner subtly confirm that it was something to be ashamed/embarrassed about ... well, I'd think twice about what I shared in the future. Especially if taken in conjunction with those "harmless and witty" comments of yours on other topics.
Beyond that, I've got to agree with all the folks saying that while a 10-year gap isn't a relationship killer in and of itself (I'm ten years older than my girlfriend, after all), it is much more of one when the younger partner is just 18 and still so new to adulthood. Not to mention, looking through your question history I see that previously you were more interested in older women ... could the fact that your current girlfriend lacks the "sophistication, polish, and experience" you were looking for be a contributing factor to this relationship's problems? I'm not saying that she should have any of those things at 18, but trying to rush her along through the unsophisticated, unpolished stages one needs to develop would really be doing her a disservice.
posted by DingoMutt at 8:14 AM on August 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Did she describe it as "slutty," or is that your term? Actually, even if she did I doubt it helped at all for you to take up the term - wouldn't that confirm the negative value judgments she's probably already encountered about her high school choices? If I were embarrassed about something in my past, and shared it anyway, only to have my partner subtly confirm that it was something to be ashamed/embarrassed about ... well, I'd think twice about what I shared in the future. Especially if taken in conjunction with those "harmless and witty" comments of yours on other topics.
Beyond that, I've got to agree with all the folks saying that while a 10-year gap isn't a relationship killer in and of itself (I'm ten years older than my girlfriend, after all), it is much more of one when the younger partner is just 18 and still so new to adulthood. Not to mention, looking through your question history I see that previously you were more interested in older women ... could the fact that your current girlfriend lacks the "sophistication, polish, and experience" you were looking for be a contributing factor to this relationship's problems? I'm not saying that she should have any of those things at 18, but trying to rush her along through the unsophisticated, unpolished stages one needs to develop would really be doing her a disservice.
posted by DingoMutt at 8:14 AM on August 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
However, it's the flip with my girlfriend: she tells me she's more insecure around me than anyone else (BECAUSE of love -- ??). In terms of the insecurities she's shared with me, informing me she had a slutty past in high school was the apex of her embarrassment, as well as the usual body image issues (slender, beautiful).
Well, she's trying to figure out who she is. She's started to figure out that this is something that she gets to decide, not something that is foisted upon her like a reputation.
Remember that in high school you're under fairly strict constraints about where you can go, what you can do, where you sit, and the decisions you are permitted to make (hence the classic teenage rebellion.) And in the relatively close quarters of high school, your social persona is largely determined by the perceptions of others. How much you take that to heart depends on a lot of other factors.
Maybe she sees herself in your eyes, compares herself now to her "old" self and feels like a fraud. Maybe your acceptance reminds her of what she settled for before you. Maybe she's aware that she's going to change more, and that you might not like it. Maybe she's aware that she's going to change more and that she might not always love you. Maybe she feels like this is too good to be true and she's waiting for the other shoe to drop. Or some combination of the above.
And that's not even getting into the major changes in her identity from leaving the church and identifying as bisexual.
posted by desuetude at 8:31 AM on August 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well, she's trying to figure out who she is. She's started to figure out that this is something that she gets to decide, not something that is foisted upon her like a reputation.
Remember that in high school you're under fairly strict constraints about where you can go, what you can do, where you sit, and the decisions you are permitted to make (hence the classic teenage rebellion.) And in the relatively close quarters of high school, your social persona is largely determined by the perceptions of others. How much you take that to heart depends on a lot of other factors.
Maybe she sees herself in your eyes, compares herself now to her "old" self and feels like a fraud. Maybe your acceptance reminds her of what she settled for before you. Maybe she's aware that she's going to change more, and that you might not like it. Maybe she's aware that she's going to change more and that she might not always love you. Maybe she feels like this is too good to be true and she's waiting for the other shoe to drop. Or some combination of the above.
And that's not even getting into the major changes in her identity from leaving the church and identifying as bisexual.
posted by desuetude at 8:31 AM on August 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Relax. Human behavior is incongruous. Don't seek some rule, some model, or some plan that will help you figure her out. Observe and appreciate instead. If at any time you think you've got her figured out, that's when you should be worried. I have been married for 22 years and I am still learning about my wife who is still unfolding wonderfully and mysteriously as we go.
Never stop learning and appreciating your partner. Develop the skills that allow you to put yourself in her place and understand her needs (While keeping your own integrity, of course. That's a real trick.) Do everything you can to make her feel accepted unconditionally. Always listen first. Don't negate her feelings when she shares them. Don't offer advice or solve her problems.
Keep in mind your age difference will garner a vaiety of reactions (see above) from others, but that's about them, not you. Its significance for you is that you are both at two different developmental stages in your lives. Your differences are supposed to be there. They pose no significant hindrance to your relationship, save that you don't accept them or ignore them.
posted by cross_impact at 8:46 AM on August 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
Never stop learning and appreciating your partner. Develop the skills that allow you to put yourself in her place and understand her needs (While keeping your own integrity, of course. That's a real trick.) Do everything you can to make her feel accepted unconditionally. Always listen first. Don't negate her feelings when she shares them. Don't offer advice or solve her problems.
Keep in mind your age difference will garner a vaiety of reactions (see above) from others, but that's about them, not you. Its significance for you is that you are both at two different developmental stages in your lives. Your differences are supposed to be there. They pose no significant hindrance to your relationship, save that you don't accept them or ignore them.
posted by cross_impact at 8:46 AM on August 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
I don't really understand what you want her to say. She's told you both that she is sometimes insecure around you and what she's insecure about, and that the feeling isn't as pronounced if she ignores it/doesn't think about it. That seems pretty open to me. *Most* people, in a relationship or not, don't really like having long conversations about their foibles and insecurities, nor do they want other people telling them why they're silly for being that way and how they should change. Acknowledging and communicating feelings helps people understand each other, but for a partner to try and change the feelings of the other when they would rather work through it by themselves is rarely constructive, and someone who demands they be given access to 100% of another person's thoughts and issues in the name of "love" is pretty controlling (I'm assuming you're not generally like that). Honestly, that behavior itself doesn't sound weird at all. Even without the 18/28 thing, it's common for some musicians and performers to have no stage fright at all, unless loved ones are in the audience. They're only insecure about people they care about seeing them screw up.
Also, people who refer to themselves as "witty" and other people as "pouting" in regard to their comments are frequently unintentionally very hurtful. It might not be her being super thin-skinned, your comments could actually be more "dickish" than "witty." Or they could be witty AND dickish, which is actually worse. I'd be careful about that, both with her and with others around you. (I'm not "witty", but I'm kind of blunt and wry, and I have the same problem.) You may be minimizing the actual harm quotient of your comments and causing her more insecurity than necessary.
posted by wending my way at 9:31 AM on August 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
Also, people who refer to themselves as "witty" and other people as "pouting" in regard to their comments are frequently unintentionally very hurtful. It might not be her being super thin-skinned, your comments could actually be more "dickish" than "witty." Or they could be witty AND dickish, which is actually worse. I'd be careful about that, both with her and with others around you. (I'm not "witty", but I'm kind of blunt and wry, and I have the same problem.) You may be minimizing the actual harm quotient of your comments and causing her more insecurity than necessary.
posted by wending my way at 9:31 AM on August 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: A lot of great responses so far, thank you.
There's a definitely a power imbalance in the relationship, most readily because of life/age experience which often defaults towards my wisdom when we pursue options together. However, she's very insightful and gives me great advice all the time.
To put my query in another light: we pride ourselves on having open communication. When problems crop up, we immediately nip them in the bud, whether it takes five minutes or five hours; we can't go on until we understand one another and get back on good terms.
I guess part of myself feels vulnerable because I've put EVERYTHING (or at least, all the oddities that have come up) about myself out there. Her presence and listening were key components of learning to accept myself and be comfortable, and I just wish I could give that back. Not to "even the score," but just to feel that we're at the same level of sharing and openness.
I realize the power imbalance plays into that, and it's not fair to expect her to be as comfortable as me. Maybe in time, but of HER choosing. I can't pry.
Anyway, thank you for the wisdom thus far.
posted by Mach3avelli at 10:17 AM on August 3, 2010
There's a definitely a power imbalance in the relationship, most readily because of life/age experience which often defaults towards my wisdom when we pursue options together. However, she's very insightful and gives me great advice all the time.
To put my query in another light: we pride ourselves on having open communication. When problems crop up, we immediately nip them in the bud, whether it takes five minutes or five hours; we can't go on until we understand one another and get back on good terms.
I guess part of myself feels vulnerable because I've put EVERYTHING (or at least, all the oddities that have come up) about myself out there. Her presence and listening were key components of learning to accept myself and be comfortable, and I just wish I could give that back. Not to "even the score," but just to feel that we're at the same level of sharing and openness.
I realize the power imbalance plays into that, and it's not fair to expect her to be as comfortable as me. Maybe in time, but of HER choosing. I can't pry.
Anyway, thank you for the wisdom thus far.
posted by Mach3avelli at 10:17 AM on August 3, 2010
In her mind, love is a delusion, because she believes relationships depend on presenting pleasing, idealized versions of yourself to the other person. I think this is very common with attractive women - love is associated with beauty, and beauty is kind of a lie. They're used to getting positive reactions from others by presenting a more or less falsified physical appearance, and this creates a kind of cynicism and despair because it means they receive love by deluding people about how they think of themselves. She shuts you out in order to preserve your delusion about her, and I would hazard a guess that the times you feel that are only the tip of the iceberg. In reality, there are many times where you feel mutual intimacy, but it's actually one-sided, because she's just playing along. She thinks this is a good thing, because her job is to play her allotted role in your fantasy.
The tragedy is that this is a closed system, there's no way out, because she's already reconciled herself to the idea that true intimacy is the ultimate threat. If you tell her you want deeper intimacy, she will respond by trying to fake that for you.
The only chance of hope is that this will eventually generate a crisis. In 15-20 years, the bloom of youth will fade and her physical imperfections will be impossible to conceal. I don't think you should wait that long.
posted by AlsoMike at 11:26 AM on August 3, 2010
The tragedy is that this is a closed system, there's no way out, because she's already reconciled herself to the idea that true intimacy is the ultimate threat. If you tell her you want deeper intimacy, she will respond by trying to fake that for you.
The only chance of hope is that this will eventually generate a crisis. In 15-20 years, the bloom of youth will fade and her physical imperfections will be impossible to conceal. I don't think you should wait that long.
posted by AlsoMike at 11:26 AM on August 3, 2010
To quote Lady GaGa, "She's not broken / She's just a baby."
posted by ErikaB at 12:12 PM on August 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by ErikaB at 12:12 PM on August 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
In her mind, love is a delusion, because she believes relationships depend on presenting pleasing, idealized versions of yourself to the other person. I think this is very common with attractive women - love is associated with beauty, and beauty is kind of a lie. They're used to getting positive reactions from others by presenting a more or less falsified physical appearance, and this creates a kind of cynicism and despair because it means they receive love by deluding people about how they think of themselves.
Wow, that's a really horrible snap judgement to make about a young woman you've never met, based on nothing more than the fact that her boyfriend thinks she is both insecure and beautiful (not to mention that it's an awfully misogynistic way to perceive young women -- after all, most healthy young women are at least somewhat attractive!)
posted by kataclysm at 12:14 PM on August 3, 2010
Wow, that's a really horrible snap judgement to make about a young woman you've never met, based on nothing more than the fact that her boyfriend thinks she is both insecure and beautiful (not to mention that it's an awfully misogynistic way to perceive young women -- after all, most healthy young women are at least somewhat attractive!)
posted by kataclysm at 12:14 PM on August 3, 2010
Wow, that's a really horrible snap judgement to make about a young woman you've never met, based on nothing more than the fact that her boyfriend thinks she is both insecure and beautiful (not to mention that it's an awfully misogynistic way to perceive young women -- after all, most healthy young women are at least somewhat attractive!)
I do agree that AlsoMike's comment came across as a bit harsh, as though he is blaming the girl for her own inexperience and fear. But at the core I think he is onto something, in that this is how women are taught to behave from a young age, and she likely hasn't fully discovered her own worth yet. I realize I am reading into the OP's story, but the "marvelous sex life, holding hands, and her listening to all of his deepest problems" sounds like a cliche that a young girl would ardently believe is what men desire from women, and she is probably surprised herself that he genuinely wants to know more about her in addition to that. I feel that the Twilight craze is a safe target to blame here.
Kidding. But I disagree that it will take 15 years for her to have a crisis and discover this about herself-probably it will take a considerably shorter amount of time. However, I agree that it is highly likely NOT to be with the OP; I suspect she's attracted to him because he fits into that worldview she has been taught to accept nicely, and he doesn't understand it himself. It all goes back to youth and inexperience.
posted by Nixy at 12:42 PM on August 3, 2010
I do agree that AlsoMike's comment came across as a bit harsh, as though he is blaming the girl for her own inexperience and fear. But at the core I think he is onto something, in that this is how women are taught to behave from a young age, and she likely hasn't fully discovered her own worth yet. I realize I am reading into the OP's story, but the "marvelous sex life, holding hands, and her listening to all of his deepest problems" sounds like a cliche that a young girl would ardently believe is what men desire from women, and she is probably surprised herself that he genuinely wants to know more about her in addition to that. I feel that the Twilight craze is a safe target to blame here.
Kidding. But I disagree that it will take 15 years for her to have a crisis and discover this about herself-probably it will take a considerably shorter amount of time. However, I agree that it is highly likely NOT to be with the OP; I suspect she's attracted to him because he fits into that worldview she has been taught to accept nicely, and he doesn't understand it himself. It all goes back to youth and inexperience.
posted by Nixy at 12:42 PM on August 3, 2010
The way you talk about this relationship is very odd. It's not the way most people talk about how they relate to their significant others.
She appears to be very young, very naive and very deferential to you. This isn't surprising given your age gap. I'm guessing that you feel so accepted by her because she doesn't question you. It's also pretty easy to resolve conflicts when when person just "defaults towards your wisdom." You don't seem concerned enough with the power imbalance in your relationship. Not even kind of. That is undoubtedly a huge source of her insecurities. You can't be secure in a relationship you feel powerless in.
In the relationship, the love and trust we share emboldens me. I feel like I can do no wrong
It concerns me that 1) you are very inexperienced in relationships; and 2) that for your first serious relationship you've chosen to be in a relationship where you hold all the power and most of the cards. You're in control here. Of course you feel like you can do no wrong, but that's not actually how a relationship is supposed to be. I'm sure it feels very liberating you to you, but it doesn't sound very liberating for her. It seems like she can do a lot of wrong. She's too sensitive. She's sheltered. She's not open enough. She "pouts" at "harmless" comments. They don't seem so harmless to her. And she doesn't even confront you when you say these things, she passive aggressively pouts. That isn't the actions of someone who feels they can openly communicate with their partner.
I don't think it's mere coincidence that you are a bit of a late bloomer and you've only let yourself fall in love with someone in a relationship where you have total control. And now you are upset that she isn't totally baring her soul to you, which would give you even more control over her.
I'm not saying this to say you are a bad guy who is taking advantage of her, but you really need to step back and take a look at this relationship and not just function from a place of: this is how this relationship makes me feel and how I feel this relationship is and actually try to see what is going on here from a more objective viewpoint. Again, I don't think you are a bad person at all or that you don't really love her or want her to be happy and fulfilled in the relationship, but I think you are very blinded by your own happiness right now to see that this relationship appears to be working for you far more than it is for her.
I don't 100% agree with AlsoMike, but I think he's getting at something. Mostly that she may be acting how she thinks girlfriends are supposed to act and trying to be what the OP wants her to be rather than actually being herself.
posted by whoaali at 12:50 PM on August 3, 2010 [10 favorites]
She appears to be very young, very naive and very deferential to you. This isn't surprising given your age gap. I'm guessing that you feel so accepted by her because she doesn't question you. It's also pretty easy to resolve conflicts when when person just "defaults towards your wisdom." You don't seem concerned enough with the power imbalance in your relationship. Not even kind of. That is undoubtedly a huge source of her insecurities. You can't be secure in a relationship you feel powerless in.
In the relationship, the love and trust we share emboldens me. I feel like I can do no wrong
It concerns me that 1) you are very inexperienced in relationships; and 2) that for your first serious relationship you've chosen to be in a relationship where you hold all the power and most of the cards. You're in control here. Of course you feel like you can do no wrong, but that's not actually how a relationship is supposed to be. I'm sure it feels very liberating you to you, but it doesn't sound very liberating for her. It seems like she can do a lot of wrong. She's too sensitive. She's sheltered. She's not open enough. She "pouts" at "harmless" comments. They don't seem so harmless to her. And she doesn't even confront you when you say these things, she passive aggressively pouts. That isn't the actions of someone who feels they can openly communicate with their partner.
I don't think it's mere coincidence that you are a bit of a late bloomer and you've only let yourself fall in love with someone in a relationship where you have total control. And now you are upset that she isn't totally baring her soul to you, which would give you even more control over her.
I'm not saying this to say you are a bad guy who is taking advantage of her, but you really need to step back and take a look at this relationship and not just function from a place of: this is how this relationship makes me feel and how I feel this relationship is and actually try to see what is going on here from a more objective viewpoint. Again, I don't think you are a bad person at all or that you don't really love her or want her to be happy and fulfilled in the relationship, but I think you are very blinded by your own happiness right now to see that this relationship appears to be working for you far more than it is for her.
I don't 100% agree with AlsoMike, but I think he's getting at something. Mostly that she may be acting how she thinks girlfriends are supposed to act and trying to be what the OP wants her to be rather than actually being herself.
posted by whoaali at 12:50 PM on August 3, 2010 [10 favorites]
To answer your second question -- don't worry about the imbalance. There will always be an imbalance of some sort in your relationship. Right now you are more established and she is experiencing some insecurity of youth. If you stay together more than ten years, maybe she'll be coming into herself just as you start to hit a bit of a mid-life-approaching-forty crisis. Who knows?
What matters is that you can see each others' strengths and weaknesses as opportunities to love each other unconditionally, to act as a team. Can you see how your strengths might complement some of her weaknesses and vice versa?
Last thing you want to do is to change her to be more like you. You want to support her in becoming the best she is destined to be.
In my marriage I am the flighty creative idea guy and she is the realistic implementor. We make a great team when we allow that we are just different and that the differences have value. But we also challenge each other to grow. She has actually become quite creative over the years and I am becoming (somewhat) more practical and realistic. But the idea is that we each want to become better for the other out of love, not out of a need to be equal.
So again, relax.
One thing I would propose is a new definition of openness in your relationship. Openness about the present -- feelings, thoughts, dreams, honesty about actions -- is more important than telling about the past. Telling about the past is required when it affects the present, when it gives some background into why I might act a particular way. Being open does not mean laying bare everything you have ever done as much as it means letting someone in and sharing yourself right now.
posted by cross_impact at 1:02 PM on August 3, 2010
What matters is that you can see each others' strengths and weaknesses as opportunities to love each other unconditionally, to act as a team. Can you see how your strengths might complement some of her weaknesses and vice versa?
Last thing you want to do is to change her to be more like you. You want to support her in becoming the best she is destined to be.
In my marriage I am the flighty creative idea guy and she is the realistic implementor. We make a great team when we allow that we are just different and that the differences have value. But we also challenge each other to grow. She has actually become quite creative over the years and I am becoming (somewhat) more practical and realistic. But the idea is that we each want to become better for the other out of love, not out of a need to be equal.
So again, relax.
One thing I would propose is a new definition of openness in your relationship. Openness about the present -- feelings, thoughts, dreams, honesty about actions -- is more important than telling about the past. Telling about the past is required when it affects the present, when it gives some background into why I might act a particular way. Being open does not mean laying bare everything you have ever done as much as it means letting someone in and sharing yourself right now.
posted by cross_impact at 1:02 PM on August 3, 2010
From a MeFite who would prefer to remain anonymous:
When I was 16, I fell in love with a guy who was 26, and we stayed a couple until I was 18. I said and felt things similar to what you're describing your partner feels--he made me feel so insecure, not on purpose and yet. And what's more, he got bolder and more self-assured from having me around; he told me so, and I could see it on display. No matter how sensitive you are or how precocious and rational she is, there are gulfs between you in experience and everyday interaction with the world. My boyfriend couldn't help but take for granted that I knew stuff I just couldn't have yet, and then would try to hide his bewilderment and frustration, well even, but I knew. Hell, I could feel the chasm myself, it works both ways. I would not have felt comfortable trying to relate certain experiences I was going through with my boyfriend because I was positive he'd have no common ground to share with me. What's more, I had to always try to be more worldly and ahead of the game than I really was (and I was pretty good at convincing him too), and then when I got tired of not being entirely myself all the time it just went all to hell. He felt like I'd sold him a false bill of goods to put it harshly, and I was just tired, so tired. Our break up was one of the most traumatic events of my young adulthood; it took me a good 3 or 4 years to get over it (not helped by the fact I wound up in the hospital due to my depression, which also flipped him out when he found out despite our relationship not being the only or even major motivator for the suicide attempts) and I STILL feel a sense of curled-up-fetal visceral cringe-twinge to think of it now. It's also one of the only things in my past I have a hard time talking about to my most near and dear; I still feel, wrong or no, a sense of shame and embarrassment about the whole thing. And he wasn't even a particularly sleazy man, it wasn't like that. But I still hate thinking about what happened.posted by jessamyn at 1:58 PM on August 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
So. Everyone saying "she's 18 and you're 28, duh you're not at the same place self-assurance-wise" is probably right. I'm 28 now, just turned, and that relationship feels like a lifetime ago. As I went through my 20s I felt more self-actualized, like, I could know something logically in my head about how I wanted to be vs. how I am, and evaluate its worth and effect, sort of CBT-ish stuff sans any formal therapy. It just came with lots of new experiences and different ways of relating to lots of people. Sure I'd love to go back and shake some sense into my 18-year-old self--I feel heartache wanting to go back in time and tell her she was just fine, smart and pretty and totally capable even--and yet I also realize you can't shortcut these things. None of the time between then and now has been a waste; I needed all of it to get where I am now. Keep that in mind when you get what sounds like a sense of confused frustration at why she just won't talk herself into "reason." You sort of have to be like that when you're young, most people do anyway, though many forget it later on.
Also--I don't think it gets mentioned much, or maybe my circle is weird I don't know, but I have other female friends who dated men a good 10-15 years older than them when they were underage or barely legal too. All of us seem a little...shaped by it, and like it took a long time to emotionally and socially recover from those intense relationships. I think maybe this is more common than people think because it's not something you just talk about openly with anyone.
I don't mean to say "this is definitely bad for her" because I'm not her or you, but just saying even when you think things are as healthy as they can be despite how others judge by on-paper facts, there might be stuff going unsaid or too hard to even articulate that, in the midst of it, you can't really consider objectively. Tread carefully, and if you're going to be with her allow for the fact there is a ton you just can't know or understand given she's 18. Late teens are hard no matter what, dating an older man just makes it all more complicated.
Response by poster: Last thing you want to do is to change her to be more like you. You want to support her in becoming the best she is destined to be.
That pretty much hits the nail on the head...
When I step back and think, I find that I'm projecting a lot about what I want out of a partner. Part of me wants her to be outgoing, more creatively inclined, confident, open to new experiences, etc. because that's how I carry myself. She's called me out on it a lot, too, which very much feeds into her insecurity.
I can admit that 90% of conflicts are probably my fault, mostly stemming from insensitive remarks or mischaracterizing how she feels about something.
What's really interesting is one time she got really, really mad at me, and for the first time, began questioning why she was with me. I told her I was hurt by her comments and worried about her leaving me. She retorted, "Yeah, don't feel so safe anymore, huh? It's about time you felt that way." I got really emotional, and she quickly reverted to the nurturing girl I know, comforted me, and passed off her comments as mere anger and apologized.
But it still sits with me. I'm still not sure what to make of that comment, and whether it says more about me or her.
Anyway, this is all new and interesting stuff to me, having played the bachelor for the past decade (with a few short, ill-fated relationships in the mix). I feel I still have a mountain to learn...
posted by Mach3avelli at 2:04 PM on August 3, 2010
That pretty much hits the nail on the head...
When I step back and think, I find that I'm projecting a lot about what I want out of a partner. Part of me wants her to be outgoing, more creatively inclined, confident, open to new experiences, etc. because that's how I carry myself. She's called me out on it a lot, too, which very much feeds into her insecurity.
I can admit that 90% of conflicts are probably my fault, mostly stemming from insensitive remarks or mischaracterizing how she feels about something.
What's really interesting is one time she got really, really mad at me, and for the first time, began questioning why she was with me. I told her I was hurt by her comments and worried about her leaving me. She retorted, "Yeah, don't feel so safe anymore, huh? It's about time you felt that way." I got really emotional, and she quickly reverted to the nurturing girl I know, comforted me, and passed off her comments as mere anger and apologized.
But it still sits with me. I'm still not sure what to make of that comment, and whether it says more about me or her.
Anyway, this is all new and interesting stuff to me, having played the bachelor for the past decade (with a few short, ill-fated relationships in the mix). I feel I still have a mountain to learn...
posted by Mach3avelli at 2:04 PM on August 3, 2010
Response by poster: Also, per her sensitivity: as an example, we were in a class together, and I was working on a problem. She began rubbing my leg. I grabbed her hand off and said, "Sorry babe, I really need to get this problem done." Obviously not the most cordial way to go about it. She turned away from me. I finished up the problem and told her, "Look, I'm really sorry I moved your hand. The problem was really frustrating me and I get distracted easily. I love when you touch me, I just needed to get it done." Even an hour later, she was still sobbing about it and was very sheepish.
As an aside, every time we get drunk together, there's always a pause in intimacy where she gets really emotional and asks me to promise never to leave her (the first time was two weeks into the relationship).
Fuck, it's really weird stacking all these things together...
posted by Mach3avelli at 2:29 PM on August 3, 2010
As an aside, every time we get drunk together, there's always a pause in intimacy where she gets really emotional and asks me to promise never to leave her (the first time was two weeks into the relationship).
Fuck, it's really weird stacking all these things together...
posted by Mach3avelli at 2:29 PM on August 3, 2010
It says more about you.
In fact, the more you elaborate on your original question, the more it sounds like you're stifling her in hopes of molding her into someone who is, for you, "the one".
Mischaracterizing how she feels about something is patronizing and annoying. Your insensitive remarks are, I'm sure, obnoxious. If she is questioning why she is with you six months in, well, that's an issue. And it is certainly not an issue you can resolve through her "reverting to the nurturing girl [you] know" every time you get upset that she's challenging what she perceives are shortcomings in your relationship.
You seem to demand a lot from her. Try dealing with the fact that 90% of the conflicts are apparently your fault, that you put her down by not accepting who she is in the ill-conceived - and I'm sure unintentional (though now that you know you're doing it...) - quest to turn her into a version of you you'd love to date.
It's not just your girlfriend that needs to grow up, here. Take a good hard look at yourself before you start tackling her perceived insecurities and how they affect your view of your relationship.
posted by lydhre at 2:30 PM on August 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
In fact, the more you elaborate on your original question, the more it sounds like you're stifling her in hopes of molding her into someone who is, for you, "the one".
Mischaracterizing how she feels about something is patronizing and annoying. Your insensitive remarks are, I'm sure, obnoxious. If she is questioning why she is with you six months in, well, that's an issue. And it is certainly not an issue you can resolve through her "reverting to the nurturing girl [you] know" every time you get upset that she's challenging what she perceives are shortcomings in your relationship.
You seem to demand a lot from her. Try dealing with the fact that 90% of the conflicts are apparently your fault, that you put her down by not accepting who she is in the ill-conceived - and I'm sure unintentional (though now that you know you're doing it...) - quest to turn her into a version of you you'd love to date.
It's not just your girlfriend that needs to grow up, here. Take a good hard look at yourself before you start tackling her perceived insecurities and how they affect your view of your relationship.
posted by lydhre at 2:30 PM on August 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
Maybe it would help to tell her when you're feeling insecure? I don't mean be needy or whiny but say, like, "Man that Prof was just all pissed about that grant today... I was so freaked out." She might not know you're feeling vulnerable and insecure even when you feel that way... She also needs to learn first hand that some of the stuff she is hoping might go away as people age (like insecurity) does or doesn't to a varying degree. Shades of grey vs. black and white thinking develop from teens to 20's. Be patient with her if she feels "all or nothing," like "You're NEVER insecure" or "YOU ALWAYS ____".
posted by ShadePlant at 2:32 PM on August 3, 2010
posted by ShadePlant at 2:32 PM on August 3, 2010
And by tell her I don't mean share everything in your soul, I just mean point out more obvious day-to-day things that might be, in Minnesota speak, "ishy" or just awkward/scary/weird for you.
posted by ShadePlant at 2:36 PM on August 3, 2010
posted by ShadePlant at 2:36 PM on August 3, 2010
Let me be blunt here: Do not let all of these comments about her immaturity lead you to believe that you're doing her a favor by being patient with her. Frankly, you're the luckier one to be dating her, and you're far more replaceable to her than she is to you. You do realize this? It's strange that you should be so confident that she won't leave you. In all likelihood, you two are not going to get married and have kids. This is her first serious relationship AND yours? Look, odds just aren't good. I hate to rain on your parade, but you're really getting ahead of yourself. You ARE taking her for granted.
My best advice for you is to slow down, examine your own misconceptions about how easy love is and how she's The One, and just try to learn as much as you can. Be open-minded, and realize that while you may have more life experience, you're essentially equal to her in relationship experience, so you probably don't really know what makes such a "solid" relationship as much as you think you do.
posted by Nixy at 2:54 PM on August 3, 2010
My best advice for you is to slow down, examine your own misconceptions about how easy love is and how she's The One, and just try to learn as much as you can. Be open-minded, and realize that while you may have more life experience, you're essentially equal to her in relationship experience, so you probably don't really know what makes such a "solid" relationship as much as you think you do.
posted by Nixy at 2:54 PM on August 3, 2010
Response by poster: Maybe it would help to tell her when you're feeling insecure?
Oh, I definitely do. She knows all my fears, anxieties, and worries about my life and self.
This is her first serious relationship AND yours?
No, I specifically said the first time I've been in love. I've had a half-dozen serious relationships (albeit only lasting 3-6 months). She's had a string of boyfriends, the longest being two years.
examine your own misconceptions about how easy love is and how she's The One
I never said this. And am far removed from either.
Frankly, you're the luckier one to be dating her, and you're far more replaceable to her than she is to you.
This part's true.
posted by Mach3avelli at 3:11 PM on August 3, 2010
Oh, I definitely do. She knows all my fears, anxieties, and worries about my life and self.
This is her first serious relationship AND yours?
No, I specifically said the first time I've been in love. I've had a half-dozen serious relationships (albeit only lasting 3-6 months). She's had a string of boyfriends, the longest being two years.
examine your own misconceptions about how easy love is and how she's The One
I never said this. And am far removed from either.
Frankly, you're the luckier one to be dating her, and you're far more replaceable to her than she is to you.
This part's true.
posted by Mach3avelli at 3:11 PM on August 3, 2010
I find that I'm projecting a lot about what I want out of a partner.
Do you fully understand that being in love does not necessitate any particular course of action? Being in love with this woman doesn't mean you have to be in a relationship with her, and it doesn't mean that it's good for you to be in a relationship with her. It could be that, right now, the age difference (or maturity difference, or life experience difference--whatever it is) is too big for you to have a healthy relationship in which each of you is authentically yourself/herself and also confident in the partnership.
If you are projecting a lot about what you want out of a partner onto her, perhaps you should take a break from this relationship and pursue women who actually have the characteristics you want. When I was 18--and I think this is fairly typical--I was very much inclined to conform to whatever a potential boyfriend was looking for in a woman. It wasn't nefarious on the part of the men in my life, and I was never involved with anyone manipulative or controlling, it was just that I couldn't see that a man I was interested in wanted qualities A, B, and C, without thinking, "I could do that! I could give you that! Love me!" whereas now, into my post-college, adult life, I'm a lot more comfortable thinking, "That's just not me; but here's who I really am" and actually be myself whether my partner or friends like it or not. So I'm not saying you're being abusive or controlling or anything like that, but I do think that it's more potentially damaging to do that type of projecting toward an 18-year-old, than toward, say, a woman your age.
posted by Meg_Murry at 5:16 PM on August 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Do you fully understand that being in love does not necessitate any particular course of action? Being in love with this woman doesn't mean you have to be in a relationship with her, and it doesn't mean that it's good for you to be in a relationship with her. It could be that, right now, the age difference (or maturity difference, or life experience difference--whatever it is) is too big for you to have a healthy relationship in which each of you is authentically yourself/herself and also confident in the partnership.
If you are projecting a lot about what you want out of a partner onto her, perhaps you should take a break from this relationship and pursue women who actually have the characteristics you want. When I was 18--and I think this is fairly typical--I was very much inclined to conform to whatever a potential boyfriend was looking for in a woman. It wasn't nefarious on the part of the men in my life, and I was never involved with anyone manipulative or controlling, it was just that I couldn't see that a man I was interested in wanted qualities A, B, and C, without thinking, "I could do that! I could give you that! Love me!" whereas now, into my post-college, adult life, I'm a lot more comfortable thinking, "That's just not me; but here's who I really am" and actually be myself whether my partner or friends like it or not. So I'm not saying you're being abusive or controlling or anything like that, but I do think that it's more potentially damaging to do that type of projecting toward an 18-year-old, than toward, say, a woman your age.
posted by Meg_Murry at 5:16 PM on August 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
"What's really interesting is one time she got really, really mad at me, and for the first time, began questioning why she was with me. I told her I was hurt by her comments and worried about her leaving me. She retorted, "Yeah, don't feel so safe anymore, huh? It's about time you felt that way." I got really emotional, and she quickly reverted to the nurturing girl I know, comforted me, and passed off her comments as mere anger and apologized.
But it still sits with me. I'm still not sure what to make of that comment, and whether it says more about me or her."
It seems obvious to me that she meant every word of that retort. And I think deep down, you do know what to make of it. It's telling that you describe her as "reverting to the nurturing girl I know"... because in that moment, she grew up a little more into the woman that she will be, and became a little less of the girl she was.
Your girlfriend may be more self-aware than you give her credit for, and perhaps more perceptive than you when it comes to the dynamic of your relationship. This was her directly addressing the power imbalance and making it clear to you that she's tired of it. This was her making sure that you know that she knows that it goes both ways - she's realized that she holds power too. Perhaps she didn't wield it too gracefully, but hell, she's 18.
And note that she detected this dynamic without the benefit of AskMefi beating her over the head with it... and that despite being beaten over the head with it, you were still unable to connect the dots here.
So, does it say more about you or her?
posted by keep it under cover at 5:51 PM on August 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
But it still sits with me. I'm still not sure what to make of that comment, and whether it says more about me or her."
It seems obvious to me that she meant every word of that retort. And I think deep down, you do know what to make of it. It's telling that you describe her as "reverting to the nurturing girl I know"... because in that moment, she grew up a little more into the woman that she will be, and became a little less of the girl she was.
Your girlfriend may be more self-aware than you give her credit for, and perhaps more perceptive than you when it comes to the dynamic of your relationship. This was her directly addressing the power imbalance and making it clear to you that she's tired of it. This was her making sure that you know that she knows that it goes both ways - she's realized that she holds power too. Perhaps she didn't wield it too gracefully, but hell, she's 18.
And note that she detected this dynamic without the benefit of AskMefi beating her over the head with it... and that despite being beaten over the head with it, you were still unable to connect the dots here.
So, does it say more about you or her?
posted by keep it under cover at 5:51 PM on August 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
I was once an 18-year-old girl dating a 29-year-old coworker who sounds an awful lot like you.
I'm now 29 myself, and I still feel embarrassed when I think about that whole experience. He was a perfectly nice guy, and I don't think he meant any harm at all, but now that I'm his age? I have no idea what he was thinking, dating a girl so much younger than him who was barely out of high school. And I have no idea what I was thinking, truth be told.
Consider the fact that you and she are unavoidably in unbalanced in this relationship. And that whatever happens, it's going to be a formative experience for HER in ways that it never will be for you, because she's still figuring out who she is. And you're shaping that in ways you probably aren't even aware of.
I don't mean to be harsh, but seriously. I've dated many guys since that relationship and I've been married for three years, and I still get the heebie jeebies when I think about it in too much detail.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 7:09 PM on August 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
I'm now 29 myself, and I still feel embarrassed when I think about that whole experience. He was a perfectly nice guy, and I don't think he meant any harm at all, but now that I'm his age? I have no idea what he was thinking, dating a girl so much younger than him who was barely out of high school. And I have no idea what I was thinking, truth be told.
Consider the fact that you and she are unavoidably in unbalanced in this relationship. And that whatever happens, it's going to be a formative experience for HER in ways that it never will be for you, because she's still figuring out who she is. And you're shaping that in ways you probably aren't even aware of.
I don't mean to be harsh, but seriously. I've dated many guys since that relationship and I've been married for three years, and I still get the heebie jeebies when I think about it in too much detail.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 7:09 PM on August 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
You may be in love for the first time, but you're also in love at age 28 and you have ten years of life experiences on her. You may not think that has anything to do with "love," but it has a hell of a lot to do with communication, decision-making, self-esteem, independence, etc: all of the things that are required for a successful relationship. She, as an eighteen-year-old, is just starting to acquire these skills.
He was a perfectly nice guy, and I don't think he meant any harm at all, but now that I'm his age? I have no idea what he was thinking, dating a girl so much younger than him who was barely out of high school.
I don't mean to be harsh either, but she is so young. I don't know if the problems in your relationship can be solved by anything other than the time she needs to become an adult--and you may or may not be involved in that process.
posted by lucysparrow at 11:27 PM on August 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
He was a perfectly nice guy, and I don't think he meant any harm at all, but now that I'm his age? I have no idea what he was thinking, dating a girl so much younger than him who was barely out of high school.
I don't mean to be harsh either, but she is so young. I don't know if the problems in your relationship can be solved by anything other than the time she needs to become an adult--and you may or may not be involved in that process.
posted by lucysparrow at 11:27 PM on August 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Consider the fact that you and she are unavoidably in unbalanced in this relationship. And that whatever happens, it's going to be a formative experience for HER in ways that it never will be for you, because she's still figuring out who she is. And you're shaping that in ways you probably aren't even aware of.
To be fair, she'll presumably be having a formative experience in a relationship whether it's with a 28-year-old or an 18-year-old, right?
posted by Mike1024 at 1:24 AM on August 4, 2010
To be fair, she'll presumably be having a formative experience in a relationship whether it's with a 28-year-old or an 18-year-old, right?
posted by Mike1024 at 1:24 AM on August 4, 2010
No, I specifically said the first time I've been in love. I've had a half-dozen serious relationships (albeit only lasting 3-6 months).
Sorry to be Judgey McCondescending, but 3-6 months doesn't seem long enough to be a 'serious relationship' to me. I've had bottles of shampoo that have lasted longer than that! Though your idea may vary - do you mean 'committed' relationships? To me, 'serious' means thinking about a future together - moving in, having children, sharing a pet, whatever that means for you. It sounds like she is really your first 'serious relationship', and that's why you're freaking out about her possibly not wanting the future you see for yourselves.
posted by mippy at 3:40 AM on August 4, 2010
Sorry to be Judgey McCondescending, but 3-6 months doesn't seem long enough to be a 'serious relationship' to me. I've had bottles of shampoo that have lasted longer than that! Though your idea may vary - do you mean 'committed' relationships? To me, 'serious' means thinking about a future together - moving in, having children, sharing a pet, whatever that means for you. It sounds like she is really your first 'serious relationship', and that's why you're freaking out about her possibly not wanting the future you see for yourselves.
posted by mippy at 3:40 AM on August 4, 2010
She knows all my fears, anxieties, and worries about my life and self.
This comment, along with your remark about her "reverting to the nurturing girl you know," concerns me: it could be a sign that this relationship is setting her up to perceive her own value mainly in the ways she can serve as a comfort (to put it kindly) or an emotional dumping ground (to put it less kindly) for those she cares about. I've been there myself and it never seems like a malicious thing when you're deep in it: someone starts sharing everything with you, says they "open up" to you in ways they can't do with anybody else; you take this as a sign that you've got something really special with them - that they Need You - and that feels really good. You allow or even encourage them to continue sharing every piece of stress and worry in their lives while you do all you can to make them feel better, and they, too, start believing that they Need You. Before long you perceive it as your "duty" to be there for them any time they need to talk ... If they ask if you mind you say of course not - you even believe that's the case - because it doesn't necessarily feel harmful at the time and besides, if you weren't there to comfort and listen to them always, what else could you possibly have to offer? What else are you good for?
It's insidious, and in the end it drains you away because all you think about is their problems, at the expense of taking care of yourself. Of course sharing is good in a relationship, of course it's good to share and discuss things you wouldn't share with others. Given her youth and the power dynamics in play, however - and given (again) your remark about how she retreated into "caringness" when you reacted negatively at her questioning your relationship - I have to think that this could be happening with her.
If the both of you do continue this relationship for now, PLEASE make sure you do everything you can - more than you're doing now; whatever you're doing now there's always more - to make sure it's clear to both of you that you're together for more than the marvelous sex and the fact that she nurtures you when you talk about your issues. It's not your responsibility to give her self worth - I doubt another person can do this for someone - but it is important to make sure you're not setting up obstacles for her developing it on her own.
posted by DingoMutt at 8:25 AM on August 4, 2010 [6 favorites]
This comment, along with your remark about her "reverting to the nurturing girl you know," concerns me: it could be a sign that this relationship is setting her up to perceive her own value mainly in the ways she can serve as a comfort (to put it kindly) or an emotional dumping ground (to put it less kindly) for those she cares about. I've been there myself and it never seems like a malicious thing when you're deep in it: someone starts sharing everything with you, says they "open up" to you in ways they can't do with anybody else; you take this as a sign that you've got something really special with them - that they Need You - and that feels really good. You allow or even encourage them to continue sharing every piece of stress and worry in their lives while you do all you can to make them feel better, and they, too, start believing that they Need You. Before long you perceive it as your "duty" to be there for them any time they need to talk ... If they ask if you mind you say of course not - you even believe that's the case - because it doesn't necessarily feel harmful at the time and besides, if you weren't there to comfort and listen to them always, what else could you possibly have to offer? What else are you good for?
It's insidious, and in the end it drains you away because all you think about is their problems, at the expense of taking care of yourself. Of course sharing is good in a relationship, of course it's good to share and discuss things you wouldn't share with others. Given her youth and the power dynamics in play, however - and given (again) your remark about how she retreated into "caringness" when you reacted negatively at her questioning your relationship - I have to think that this could be happening with her.
If the both of you do continue this relationship for now, PLEASE make sure you do everything you can - more than you're doing now; whatever you're doing now there's always more - to make sure it's clear to both of you that you're together for more than the marvelous sex and the fact that she nurtures you when you talk about your issues. It's not your responsibility to give her self worth - I doubt another person can do this for someone - but it is important to make sure you're not setting up obstacles for her developing it on her own.
posted by DingoMutt at 8:25 AM on August 4, 2010 [6 favorites]
To be fair, she'll presumably be having a formative experience in a relationship whether it's with a 28-year-old or an 18-year-old, right?
There's a difference between growing up WITH someone and helping shape another person's path to adulthood when you're already there yourself. The first involves figuring yourself out alongside a peer; the second involves actively (or accidentally) shaping a malleable human being from a position of power, once that process is long behind you.
The latter seems to be what's going on here, as others have pointed out.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 5:37 PM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
There's a difference between growing up WITH someone and helping shape another person's path to adulthood when you're already there yourself. The first involves figuring yourself out alongside a peer; the second involves actively (or accidentally) shaping a malleable human being from a position of power, once that process is long behind you.
The latter seems to be what's going on here, as others have pointed out.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 5:37 PM on August 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by elpea at 4:46 AM on August 3, 2010 [56 favorites]