the importance of passion in the long run
July 24, 2010 8:07 AM Subscribe
So I'm turning to MeFi for relationship advice.
I've been seeing a girl on a monogamous basis for about five months now. Before I say anything else, I want to emphasize this point more than anything: this girl is great. Seriously: she's attractive, fit, intelligent, friendly, supportive, good in bed; she makes really good money, appreciates my sense of humour, is both sensitive to my needs as a person and a boyfriend and generous of spirit in trying to help out/fulfill them. All of my friends who have met her (and all the important ones have) think she's great and are thoroughly impressed. I am in all sincerity competing above my weight level here, so to speak. And she adores my ass, for reasons I cannot begin to explain.
This is not to say that she is glowingly perfect, because nobody is. My point is that I should consider myself astonishingly blessed. My problem is that I don't. Not exactly, anyway.
I've fallen in love a few times in my life; obviously none of them have worked out in the long run. Still, I'm on good terms with most of the girls in question (one is one of my closest friends and is one of the aforementioned friends who approves of my girlfriend). When I spend time with them, I'm not in love with them any more, obviously. But there's still the memory of that passion, which used to be a bonfire and now isn't so much that thing any more; that memory feels good even if it didn't work out, because... hell, I don't know. Call it the memory of being really human, which is associated with the person in question.
My current girlfriend is a different case. We met via a dating site, had a few dates, and then it just sort of extended. I like her as a person, I really do, and I don't have a problem at all saying I love her. The problem is that when I say I love her, that passion I just mentioned isn't there. It's based on affection, and respect, and gratitude, and half a dozen other things that are all really good, but none of them is that bonfire. I've been dating her for half a year hoping that it'll show up, but it hasn't.
At six months in, I'm worried that it hasn't shown up. Does this matter? I mean - the passion always fades, eventually. Successful relationships - and marriages - are based on all the things we've already got: mutual respect, affection, trust, all of that. But is this something that can work without passion, or at least the memory of it, in the long run? And if it can't, how much longer can I reasonably allow to pass before I give up? Minimizing emotional pain to her - whatever might happen - is a priority.
I've been seeing a girl on a monogamous basis for about five months now. Before I say anything else, I want to emphasize this point more than anything: this girl is great. Seriously: she's attractive, fit, intelligent, friendly, supportive, good in bed; she makes really good money, appreciates my sense of humour, is both sensitive to my needs as a person and a boyfriend and generous of spirit in trying to help out/fulfill them. All of my friends who have met her (and all the important ones have) think she's great and are thoroughly impressed. I am in all sincerity competing above my weight level here, so to speak. And she adores my ass, for reasons I cannot begin to explain.
This is not to say that she is glowingly perfect, because nobody is. My point is that I should consider myself astonishingly blessed. My problem is that I don't. Not exactly, anyway.
I've fallen in love a few times in my life; obviously none of them have worked out in the long run. Still, I'm on good terms with most of the girls in question (one is one of my closest friends and is one of the aforementioned friends who approves of my girlfriend). When I spend time with them, I'm not in love with them any more, obviously. But there's still the memory of that passion, which used to be a bonfire and now isn't so much that thing any more; that memory feels good even if it didn't work out, because... hell, I don't know. Call it the memory of being really human, which is associated with the person in question.
My current girlfriend is a different case. We met via a dating site, had a few dates, and then it just sort of extended. I like her as a person, I really do, and I don't have a problem at all saying I love her. The problem is that when I say I love her, that passion I just mentioned isn't there. It's based on affection, and respect, and gratitude, and half a dozen other things that are all really good, but none of them is that bonfire. I've been dating her for half a year hoping that it'll show up, but it hasn't.
At six months in, I'm worried that it hasn't shown up. Does this matter? I mean - the passion always fades, eventually. Successful relationships - and marriages - are based on all the things we've already got: mutual respect, affection, trust, all of that. But is this something that can work without passion, or at least the memory of it, in the long run? And if it can't, how much longer can I reasonably allow to pass before I give up? Minimizing emotional pain to her - whatever might happen - is a priority.
Imagine being with this woman 40 years from now, and your relationship is in trouble. Perhaps one of you has a minor but chronic illness and the other is exhausted. Maybe you have kids and one of them is troubled or simply hard to deal with and takes your joint energy to parent well. Maybe you haven't had sex in a while and the infrequent non-sexual time you've spent together has been watching tv and not really connecting to each other. When you think about "recommitting" to her and you reach back into your memories to remind yourself what drew you to her, how good it was when anything and everything was possible, what a positive foundation you had for the relationship and where you could get to--get through--based on that foundation, how will these last six months reach to you across time?
And she adores my ass
Do you adore her?
posted by Yoshimi Battles at 8:21 AM on July 24, 2010 [6 favorites]
And she adores my ass
Do you adore her?
posted by Yoshimi Battles at 8:21 AM on July 24, 2010 [6 favorites]
You sound thrilled and happy as you describe your relationship to us. Can you explain your problems again?
posted by infini at 8:23 AM on July 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by infini at 8:23 AM on July 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
You may be experiencing the 'slow burn' of passion and love. Much of this is dependent on your maturity (which doesn't always come with age, but often does). You respect her - that's a huge plus. Providing you don't ever feel any form of resentment towards her, you could be on the path towards something deep, meaningful and long-lasting. All the best!
posted by HarrysDad at 8:26 AM on July 24, 2010
posted by HarrysDad at 8:26 AM on July 24, 2010
Let's just cut to the chase: She's great, but you're just not into her. Nothing wrong with that, but it seems as though that passion is something that you want and possibly require in a relationship.
It's great she has all these fantastic qualities and that everyone around you approves of the relationship and think she's great. But if you don't feel that passion with her, if she doesn't press those buttons that you know can be pressed, then the relationship has limited life. Nothing wrong with that, enjoy the time you have and treat her well of course, but the passion isn't there.
You should try to figure out what inspires that passion in you and look for women who have those qualities.
Minimizing emotional pain to her - whatever might happen - is a priority.
This comment should help with that.
posted by new brand day at 8:27 AM on July 24, 2010
It's great she has all these fantastic qualities and that everyone around you approves of the relationship and think she's great. But if you don't feel that passion with her, if she doesn't press those buttons that you know can be pressed, then the relationship has limited life. Nothing wrong with that, enjoy the time you have and treat her well of course, but the passion isn't there.
You should try to figure out what inspires that passion in you and look for women who have those qualities.
Minimizing emotional pain to her - whatever might happen - is a priority.
This comment should help with that.
posted by new brand day at 8:27 AM on July 24, 2010
Passion fades, but I am not the sort of person who can live without it being there in the first place. Can you? Are you happy on that deep, inner level rather than on the superficial level where you look about yourself and say "I have all of this, thus I am happy because i should be happy."
If you're asking this question, I'm going to bet that it's not on a purely intellectual basis Are you a person who lives with uncomfortable things or seeks to change them? This is the aspect of your personality that is most important here. I was in a situation eerily similar to yours (hell, I could have practically written this question last year.)
I was with a pretty fantastic girl, but there was just something missing. And, while, at first I thought that an initial lack of amour fou was a good thing, as it tended to get me into more trouble than good, I couldn't take the utter lack of it. But that lack just kept nagging at me and nagging at me and eventually, when I confronted her with my fears, an amazing thing happened: she was having the exact same problem. We broke up that night; no fighting, no hurt feelings, and a general sense of relief on both our ends.
If you want passion, you deserve passion. And she deserves a boyfriend who does not want something the relationship is inherently unable to provide.
posted by griphus at 8:32 AM on July 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
If you're asking this question, I'm going to bet that it's not on a purely intellectual basis Are you a person who lives with uncomfortable things or seeks to change them? This is the aspect of your personality that is most important here. I was in a situation eerily similar to yours (hell, I could have practically written this question last year.)
I was with a pretty fantastic girl, but there was just something missing. And, while, at first I thought that an initial lack of amour fou was a good thing, as it tended to get me into more trouble than good, I couldn't take the utter lack of it. But that lack just kept nagging at me and nagging at me and eventually, when I confronted her with my fears, an amazing thing happened: she was having the exact same problem. We broke up that night; no fighting, no hurt feelings, and a general sense of relief on both our ends.
If you want passion, you deserve passion. And she deserves a boyfriend who does not want something the relationship is inherently unable to provide.
posted by griphus at 8:32 AM on July 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'm curious. How do you feel about her scent? When you put your nose in the crease of her neck or between her breasts or in her armpits, inhale deeply and just hoover up her natural body fragrance. Does your little lizard brain go zang! and instantly turn off all higher-order thinking processes and make you go mmmmmmm.... or is it... just kind of nice, or are you thinking "armpits? what are you crazy? gross!"
For me, the most important gateway to passion is scent. I'm enormously lucky in that my partner is not only visually and intellectually stimulating and a great friend and confidant, there's something about the way she smells that rekindles everything wonderful I felt back when I first met her all over again. And she feels the same way about my odour at all times as well.
My ex-wife, by way of contrast, had a scent that varied between a freshly-washed "ignorable" to when several days-old a fume that I once made the grave error of calling "rancid." Notice the "ex" there. Once we'd matured through needing each other as friends during our early adult-hood, there was nothing left to keep us together.
There's nothing wrong with making a permanent life with someone who is a great friend, partner and lover whose smell doesn't fill you with skull-exploding rapture. As long as you're okay with not having that experience -- or finding it in a non-monogamous context.
I don't have an answer for your question, "does it matter?" because only you can decide. However, I hope my anecdote might give you some clue as to why you are not getting the big passion zang.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:33 AM on July 24, 2010 [17 favorites]
For me, the most important gateway to passion is scent. I'm enormously lucky in that my partner is not only visually and intellectually stimulating and a great friend and confidant, there's something about the way she smells that rekindles everything wonderful I felt back when I first met her all over again. And she feels the same way about my odour at all times as well.
My ex-wife, by way of contrast, had a scent that varied between a freshly-washed "ignorable" to when several days-old a fume that I once made the grave error of calling "rancid." Notice the "ex" there. Once we'd matured through needing each other as friends during our early adult-hood, there was nothing left to keep us together.
There's nothing wrong with making a permanent life with someone who is a great friend, partner and lover whose smell doesn't fill you with skull-exploding rapture. As long as you're okay with not having that experience -- or finding it in a non-monogamous context.
I don't have an answer for your question, "does it matter?" because only you can decide. However, I hope my anecdote might give you some clue as to why you are not getting the big passion zang.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:33 AM on July 24, 2010 [17 favorites]
You sound like you love her and she loves you. I don't see the problem.
It's weird that you mention that she makes good money. Do you make good money? Are you letting her buy you stuff that you couldn't otherwise afford?
posted by anniecat at 8:34 AM on July 24, 2010
It's weird that you mention that she makes good money. Do you make good money? Are you letting her buy you stuff that you couldn't otherwise afford?
posted by anniecat at 8:34 AM on July 24, 2010
the passion always fades, eventually.
Quite the misconception. No, relationships are usually not the same as when they were new, but this doesn't mean that the passion dies and all that's left is respect and trust.
Anyhow, that out of the way, it sounds like your relationship is in a good place (provided you are returning these feelings). Some people don't start off with a huge spark, but it develops more slowly. Other people go from relationship to relationship because they seek that huge spark but don't value the deeper stuff as much (which is what it sounds like you have - the deeper sort of connection, I mean).
You may be romanticizing the passion felt between you and your ex, especially if that relationship didn't last more than a year or two, and looking upon all that in a light more nostalgic than realistic.
posted by cmgonzalez at 8:34 AM on July 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
Quite the misconception. No, relationships are usually not the same as when they were new, but this doesn't mean that the passion dies and all that's left is respect and trust.
Anyhow, that out of the way, it sounds like your relationship is in a good place (provided you are returning these feelings). Some people don't start off with a huge spark, but it develops more slowly. Other people go from relationship to relationship because they seek that huge spark but don't value the deeper stuff as much (which is what it sounds like you have - the deeper sort of connection, I mean).
You may be romanticizing the passion felt between you and your ex, especially if that relationship didn't last more than a year or two, and looking upon all that in a light more nostalgic than realistic.
posted by cmgonzalez at 8:34 AM on July 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
"I've fallen in love a few times in my life; obviously none of them have worked out in the long run."
Are you referring, perhaps, to that feeling of spark?
I think it's worthwhile to note that none of those times have worked out for you. A lot of times, that feeling of intense initial attraction is directly proportional to how bad for you the relationship will be. Seriously.
It goes like this: Look at your parents' relationship. If it's dysfunctional in any way, then they have most likely also conditioned you to seek out similar relationship patterns. The people that push your buttons the most will be the ones who most match your particular dysfunction. This is why that feeling of intense frisson is not always a good indicator of much.
A lot of people learn that via a lot of painful trial and error, and a lot of them learn it later in life.
Unfortunately, you don't much sound like you're there yet. Sorry, but that's the vibe I get. You'll probably stick it out with her for a while, but always wonder in the back of your head what you're missing. You'll get wanderlust. You'll probably either end up breaking it off with her anyway after some time, or -- worse -- cheating on her.
I'm almost inclined to say that you should spare her the future heartache...unless, of course, you can be honestly happy with what you have.
posted by kaseijin at 8:35 AM on July 24, 2010 [5 favorites]
Are you referring, perhaps, to that feeling of spark?
I think it's worthwhile to note that none of those times have worked out for you. A lot of times, that feeling of intense initial attraction is directly proportional to how bad for you the relationship will be. Seriously.
It goes like this: Look at your parents' relationship. If it's dysfunctional in any way, then they have most likely also conditioned you to seek out similar relationship patterns. The people that push your buttons the most will be the ones who most match your particular dysfunction. This is why that feeling of intense frisson is not always a good indicator of much.
A lot of people learn that via a lot of painful trial and error, and a lot of them learn it later in life.
Unfortunately, you don't much sound like you're there yet. Sorry, but that's the vibe I get. You'll probably stick it out with her for a while, but always wonder in the back of your head what you're missing. You'll get wanderlust. You'll probably either end up breaking it off with her anyway after some time, or -- worse -- cheating on her.
I'm almost inclined to say that you should spare her the future heartache...unless, of course, you can be honestly happy with what you have.
posted by kaseijin at 8:35 AM on July 24, 2010 [5 favorites]
I think it's unfair and unrealistic to yourself (and to her) to compare the passion and memories of your earlier relationships with the feelings you have with her.
Your earlier relationships probably came at a time when you were growing, when you didn't know as much (about life or about love), and for that reason, earlier relationships have a sheen that later relationships may not have ...
It sounds like you've found a great woman, but that you're being a bit myopic about the value of the relationship because you're obsessing over the passion of your young loves.
posted by jayder at 8:47 AM on July 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
Your earlier relationships probably came at a time when you were growing, when you didn't know as much (about life or about love), and for that reason, earlier relationships have a sheen that later relationships may not have ...
It sounds like you've found a great woman, but that you're being a bit myopic about the value of the relationship because you're obsessing over the passion of your young loves.
posted by jayder at 8:47 AM on July 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's okay not to be madly in love with the perfect person. No, really. It is. Just because somebody is totally perfect and wonderful and great and all that does not mean that you are going to fall head over heels in love with them. It may be contrary; it may be that there's just something missing, but it happens and it's okay. It sounds like you're just not really in love with her. Some people are fine with this in a relationship - but I'm not and, given your question, I think perhaps you're not.
I'm considerably older than you and I recently broke up with somebody quite similar - nice guy, wonderful qualities, kind, etc., etc - but it was just, on some deep and almost inexplicable level, not working for me. Then I noticed that he got on my nerves to the nth degree - perfection can be irksome too - and before that got too bad and I began snapping at him constantly, I decided that I would rather be alone. I have not regretted this decision despite the fact that, yeah, he was a great guy, perfectly wonderful in many, many ways. I would say that if there is no bonfire at six months and if you are still doubting this relationship at that point than it's time to gently cut your losses and move on. It will be hard: there's no way to do this without both of you being miserable and sad for a while and you'll just have to deal with it. But not every relationship ends because one of the partners is an asshole. Sometimes things just don't work out.
posted by mygothlaundry at 8:58 AM on July 24, 2010 [4 favorites]
I'm considerably older than you and I recently broke up with somebody quite similar - nice guy, wonderful qualities, kind, etc., etc - but it was just, on some deep and almost inexplicable level, not working for me. Then I noticed that he got on my nerves to the nth degree - perfection can be irksome too - and before that got too bad and I began snapping at him constantly, I decided that I would rather be alone. I have not regretted this decision despite the fact that, yeah, he was a great guy, perfectly wonderful in many, many ways. I would say that if there is no bonfire at six months and if you are still doubting this relationship at that point than it's time to gently cut your losses and move on. It will be hard: there's no way to do this without both of you being miserable and sad for a while and you'll just have to deal with it. But not every relationship ends because one of the partners is an asshole. Sometimes things just don't work out.
posted by mygothlaundry at 8:58 AM on July 24, 2010 [4 favorites]
Just throwing this out there... what about planning a trip with this current girlfriend of yours? Part of what you're remembering with your old girlfriends and that spark is the feeling of understanding and closeness to that person emotionally. You spent a lot of time with them, you still do. This girl isn't as familiar and hasn't had the same kinds of opportunities to gain your affection.
I know I've certainly felt far closer to a lot of my boyfriends and deeper in love with them after a (reasonably short) trip. Just the two of you, forced to spend a lot of different kinds of moments together - waking up with bad breath, becoming grouchy, entertaining each other, good conversations, etc. Reconciling the good aspects with their negative ones, on a trip your partner gains depth for you. And in the end you'll know if this is a person you want to keep around, if you really love this person or not, if a spark could develop.
posted by lizbunny at 9:53 AM on July 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
I know I've certainly felt far closer to a lot of my boyfriends and deeper in love with them after a (reasonably short) trip. Just the two of you, forced to spend a lot of different kinds of moments together - waking up with bad breath, becoming grouchy, entertaining each other, good conversations, etc. Reconciling the good aspects with their negative ones, on a trip your partner gains depth for you. And in the end you'll know if this is a person you want to keep around, if you really love this person or not, if a spark could develop.
posted by lizbunny at 9:53 AM on July 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
do you like doing the same things? does she turn you on? Maybe you are missreading your passion for the others ?
Do you have tons of fun when you go out with this current girl?
posted by majortom1981 at 9:55 AM on July 24, 2010
Do you have tons of fun when you go out with this current girl?
posted by majortom1981 at 9:55 AM on July 24, 2010
Read One Day and see how your situation compares. (Just my 2 cents). But I am a big believer in fiction/literature as guidance.
posted by emhutchinson at 9:57 AM on July 24, 2010
posted by emhutchinson at 9:57 AM on July 24, 2010
Believe it or not, this is a perennial AskMe question. Here is one of a few past questions.
I am personally anti-spark but really think it depends. To quote a comment from Ironmouth, " From my own experience, 'instant' attraction was always about me working out some sort of past drama...Now that I'm older and I've decided to learn my lessons instead of ignore them... I don't have 'instant chemistry' any more--I think people are cute, but I don't have that 'this is fate' feeling." I agree wholeheartedly.
But I don't know what the difference between your "passion" and his "instant chemistry" is. In that gap might be a lot of good reasons you don't work together that are more concrete. I'd recommend that you drop this "she's great on paper" stuff and focus on what specifically is and isn't working for you. Getting more specific about who you are and what you need has often brought more passion into my relationships. It's kinda thrilling to be more honest and self-revealing.
posted by salvia at 9:59 AM on July 24, 2010 [4 favorites]
I am personally anti-spark but really think it depends. To quote a comment from Ironmouth, " From my own experience, 'instant' attraction was always about me working out some sort of past drama...Now that I'm older and I've decided to learn my lessons instead of ignore them... I don't have 'instant chemistry' any more--I think people are cute, but I don't have that 'this is fate' feeling." I agree wholeheartedly.
But I don't know what the difference between your "passion" and his "instant chemistry" is. In that gap might be a lot of good reasons you don't work together that are more concrete. I'd recommend that you drop this "she's great on paper" stuff and focus on what specifically is and isn't working for you. Getting more specific about who you are and what you need has often brought more passion into my relationships. It's kinda thrilling to be more honest and self-revealing.
posted by salvia at 9:59 AM on July 24, 2010 [4 favorites]
"spark" and longterm compatibility have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
Do a thought experiment. If she came up to you tonight and broke up with you, how would you feel? Devastated? Or relieved?
That's your answer.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 10:15 AM on July 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
Do a thought experiment. If she came up to you tonight and broke up with you, how would you feel? Devastated? Or relieved?
That's your answer.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 10:15 AM on July 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
Seconding the "slow burn" idea. Sometimes the passion takes a little while to develop. It did in my current relationship. I spent a lot of time initially wondering if I felt passionate enough about my boyfriend to continue seeing him, even though I felt that he was perfect for me in a lot of ways. I relaxed about it and let things take their course and now I'm head over heels. I obviously can't guarantee that's how things will happen for you, but if you're enjoying the relationship otherwise (sounds like you are) and if you make sure that you don't mislead her about how you're feeling (sounds like you are not), then I think it's ok to give it a little more time. But only if you think you can put the passion question aside for a bit.
If you don't think that you can set it aside, then I would end it now. I don't think anybody wants to be with someone who is spending their time second-guessing whether they want to be with them. It sounds like you've made a good faith effort to make this relationship succeed. As for minimizing the pain, I think honesty about your thoughts and feelings is best: "I care about, respect, and love you, but I don't feel a certain passion that I think is crucial to the success of a long-term relationship. It's important to me to feel that and I think you deserve to be with someone who feels that for you."
posted by Colonel_Chappy at 10:34 AM on July 24, 2010
If you don't think that you can set it aside, then I would end it now. I don't think anybody wants to be with someone who is spending their time second-guessing whether they want to be with them. It sounds like you've made a good faith effort to make this relationship succeed. As for minimizing the pain, I think honesty about your thoughts and feelings is best: "I care about, respect, and love you, but I don't feel a certain passion that I think is crucial to the success of a long-term relationship. It's important to me to feel that and I think you deserve to be with someone who feels that for you."
posted by Colonel_Chappy at 10:34 AM on July 24, 2010
Early relationships are all about passion, exploration, wonderful new feelings fulfilled. Feelings that have built up during your young existence, being acted upon for the first few times.
With little experience both partners are trying to determine the commitment level of the other, compatibility etc.
All while you know your more physical aspects work great.
This is where passion arises, from the push and pull of young relationships, the "can't live without them" feelings. Angst over misunderstandings, and the realization that it's not "written in the stars."
As you mature you learn to compromise to maintain the relationship, in not only love interests but business, social, and interactions with strangers.
Sometimes we do so so reflexively that it, in mating rituals, precludes our real emotions. Sometimes relationships are entered with love, or fulfillment being the last thing in mind. Until you realize that is what you want.
I like her as a person, I really do, and I don't have a problem at all saying I love her. The problem is that when I say I love her, that passion I just mentioned isn't there.
If she broke up with you tomorrow would you care?
When you say you love her but don't feel passion, what is it you feel?
Emotional commitments are about building lifelong memories with people you have met and would like to share a world with.
Do you want her there, in your memories, or would you she rather not be there and it be some other [put face here] person?
I see St. Alia was more succinct than I.
posted by Max Power at 10:37 AM on July 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
With little experience both partners are trying to determine the commitment level of the other, compatibility etc.
All while you know your more physical aspects work great.
This is where passion arises, from the push and pull of young relationships, the "can't live without them" feelings. Angst over misunderstandings, and the realization that it's not "written in the stars."
As you mature you learn to compromise to maintain the relationship, in not only love interests but business, social, and interactions with strangers.
Sometimes we do so so reflexively that it, in mating rituals, precludes our real emotions. Sometimes relationships are entered with love, or fulfillment being the last thing in mind. Until you realize that is what you want.
I like her as a person, I really do, and I don't have a problem at all saying I love her. The problem is that when I say I love her, that passion I just mentioned isn't there.
If she broke up with you tomorrow would you care?
When you say you love her but don't feel passion, what is it you feel?
Emotional commitments are about building lifelong memories with people you have met and would like to share a world with.
Do you want her there, in your memories, or would you she rather not be there and it be some other [put face here] person?
I see St. Alia was more succinct than I.
posted by Max Power at 10:37 AM on July 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
Echoing what a few others said. Passion is unreliable. Many of us have had the experience of being so totally into someone, with butterflies and chemistry and spark out the wazoo. Did it last? No. Is there a correlation between the presence of passion and a lasting relationship? I don't believe there is.
Some couples who have been together for a long time say they have that passion and have had it from the start, but I wonder if that's not just confirmation bias. They might view the early stages of their relationship with rose-colored glasses because they know how their story ends up. It's only when things don't work out that we admit, "Well, I wasn't that into him/her at the beginning anyway, so there you go."
Personally, I think it's silly to throw away something good just because there might be something potentially "better" out there. However, your thoughts might be indicative of other things going on. It might be time to seriously evaluate what you like and don't like about her, and see if there might be other reasons that you don't feel the way you think you should about her. Still, this is wrought with issues. As someone who has been dumped numerous times because guys "didn't feel the way [they] should about [me] at this point", I am still mystified by this elusive measuring stick for relationships that dictates an appropriate timeline for feelings. Did I miss that day in Relationships 101? Looking at your beliefs about love and relationships and examining where they come from, and if your feelings about passion are your own or are the result of cultural expectations could help you sort things out.
Apologies if this was sort of rambly/ranty.
posted by Fuego at 10:42 AM on July 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
Some couples who have been together for a long time say they have that passion and have had it from the start, but I wonder if that's not just confirmation bias. They might view the early stages of their relationship with rose-colored glasses because they know how their story ends up. It's only when things don't work out that we admit, "Well, I wasn't that into him/her at the beginning anyway, so there you go."
Personally, I think it's silly to throw away something good just because there might be something potentially "better" out there. However, your thoughts might be indicative of other things going on. It might be time to seriously evaluate what you like and don't like about her, and see if there might be other reasons that you don't feel the way you think you should about her. Still, this is wrought with issues. As someone who has been dumped numerous times because guys "didn't feel the way [they] should about [me] at this point", I am still mystified by this elusive measuring stick for relationships that dictates an appropriate timeline for feelings. Did I miss that day in Relationships 101? Looking at your beliefs about love and relationships and examining where they come from, and if your feelings about passion are your own or are the result of cultural expectations could help you sort things out.
Apologies if this was sort of rambly/ranty.
posted by Fuego at 10:42 AM on July 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
To say "passion can be unreliable, therefore you don't need passion" is a false syllogism. Sure, passion might mislead in some cases; but it might also be necessary to form the basis of a relationship for you. Love is supposed to feel like love, not friendship. The fact that she's a great person has no bearing on this -- again, another logical error: just because you should chose a great person to have a relationship with doesn't mean that all great people are right for you.
In my own life, I can tell you that I've never regretted following my passion as much as I've regretted spending months and years trying to convince myself that I should stay with someone because he's "great on paper," despite not really loving him. I would 100% rather be alone than live with that torment.
In short, you seem like you're a pretty well-balanced guy who's had good relationships in the past. Don't be afraid to follow your instincts.
posted by yarly at 11:21 AM on July 24, 2010 [8 favorites]
In my own life, I can tell you that I've never regretted following my passion as much as I've regretted spending months and years trying to convince myself that I should stay with someone because he's "great on paper," despite not really loving him. I would 100% rather be alone than live with that torment.
In short, you seem like you're a pretty well-balanced guy who's had good relationships in the past. Don't be afraid to follow your instincts.
posted by yarly at 11:21 AM on July 24, 2010 [8 favorites]
If she's as great as you say she is, don't you feel like she deserves someone who is utterly, completely devoted to her, and can't imagine not being with her? Because she does. She deserves someone who really wants her. Not someone who feels like they ought to want her, like they're a fool not to want her, like they're competing out of their weight class and they should be grateful just to have the opportunity to want her. If you don't see yourself transitioning into that deep, soul-level wanting, you should move along. Aaaand, if you do decide to move on, don't beat yourself up about it. Just because someone is great, doesn't mean they're great for you. There's a whole host of intangible qualities about people that aren't as easy to peg as things like, "fit", "attractive", "friendly", "sensitive", etc.
posted by eleyna at 11:40 AM on July 24, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by eleyna at 11:40 AM on July 24, 2010 [5 favorites]
A girl can be awesome without you being into her, which it sounds like you're not.
IMHO, initial passion is very, very important. Years down the line, when you have a deep love for each other, it's wonderful to remember the time when the passion was brand new, and reconnect with that feeling.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:45 AM on July 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
IMHO, initial passion is very, very important. Years down the line, when you have a deep love for each other, it's wonderful to remember the time when the passion was brand new, and reconnect with that feeling.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:45 AM on July 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
yarly, I'm not saying you don't need passion. I'm saying that its presence or absence should not be the sole determining factor in whether or not you continue a relationship. I just fear that we place far too much importance on it because in the U.S., we're taught that love is this magical emotion different from all others, and all love must have this mysterious passion that seems so hard for many of us to find. Maybe some people need passion, maybe some don't. But because something doesn't have the mystical properties that we're conditioned to believe it should have doesn't mean that it's not worth having.
posted by Fuego at 12:09 PM on July 24, 2010
posted by Fuego at 12:09 PM on July 24, 2010
I probably don't know what I'm talking about but have you considered that you may have grown, as a result of previous relationships, into a place where you can't do passion in the same way any more?
posted by Mertonian at 1:01 PM on July 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Mertonian at 1:01 PM on July 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
Are you describing a lack of limerence? To wit:
I am deeply in love with my husband. I am not madly in love with my husband. We are married because this love is rock-solid.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:22 PM on July 24, 2010 [4 favorites]
With an affectional bond, neither partner is limerent. With a Limerent-Nonlimerent bond, one partner is limerent. In a Limerent-Limerent bond, both partners are limerent.You do not need limerence to be in love, if that's what you're asking, and in fact many long term relationships including but not limited to happy marriages do not and did not have that. You yourself may individually require it for pair bonding, but nobody here can tell you if that's the case.
Affectional bonding characterize those affectionate sexual relationships where neither partner is limerent; couples tend to be in love, but do not report continuous and unwanted intrusive thinking, feeling intense need for exclusivity, or define their goals in terms of reciprocity. These types of bonded couples tend to emphasize compatibility of interests, mutual preferences in leisure activities, ability to work together, and in some cases a degree of relative contentment.
The bulk of relationships, however, according to Tennov, are those between a limerent person and a nonlimerent other, i.e. limerent-nonlimerent bonding. These bonds are characterized by unequal reciprocation.
Lastly, those relationship bonds in which there exists mutual reciprocation are defined as limerent-limerent bondings. Tennov argues since limerence itself is an "unstable state" that mutually limerent bonds would be expected to be short-lived; mixed relationships probably last longer than limerent-limerent relationships; and affectional bondings tend to be characterized as "old marrieds" whose interactions are typically both stable and mutually gratifying.
I am deeply in love with my husband. I am not madly in love with my husband. We are married because this love is rock-solid.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:22 PM on July 24, 2010 [4 favorites]
Previously, previously...
It seems like one of two things is going on:
Either (1) your relationship is basically fine, but you have a lingering worry that it doesn't have some extra level of passionate that you've experienced before and expect to be there.
Or (2) as an earlier comment said, "She's great, but you're just not into her." You look at your situation objectively and think: gee, I'm so lucky, because she's so great in so many ways, and she's actually out of my league, so I'd be a fool to leave her. But the problem is that's pretty much the whole basis of your interest in her.
If you think the situation is basically #1, then that's fine. I mean, you could break up with her and go looking for more passion, but you don't have to.
If it's #2, then you don't have much of a basis for a deep relationship, and you may be more concerned with achieving status in other people's eyes.
It may be interesting for us to sit around guessing which of these is the case, but I just don't think we can know from your question. Which do you think it is?
posted by Jaltcoh at 2:05 PM on July 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
It seems like one of two things is going on:
Either (1) your relationship is basically fine, but you have a lingering worry that it doesn't have some extra level of passionate that you've experienced before and expect to be there.
Or (2) as an earlier comment said, "She's great, but you're just not into her." You look at your situation objectively and think: gee, I'm so lucky, because she's so great in so many ways, and she's actually out of my league, so I'd be a fool to leave her. But the problem is that's pretty much the whole basis of your interest in her.
If you think the situation is basically #1, then that's fine. I mean, you could break up with her and go looking for more passion, but you don't have to.
If it's #2, then you don't have much of a basis for a deep relationship, and you may be more concerned with achieving status in other people's eyes.
It may be interesting for us to sit around guessing which of these is the case, but I just don't think we can know from your question. Which do you think it is?
posted by Jaltcoh at 2:05 PM on July 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
Sorry, in the "(1)" paragraph, it should, of course, say: extra level of passion (not passionate)
posted by Jaltcoh at 3:26 PM on July 24, 2010
posted by Jaltcoh at 3:26 PM on July 24, 2010
you know what? I was thinking really hard about this because most people are addressing your question about "passion." but you say she adores you. That's really important. Because the reality is us that you need to be realistic in relationships. Will she end up wiping your ass when you can't? When you're old? If yes, then that's the person worth having a relationship with. Sure, a live in nurse can do it, but someone who loves you and adores you- relationships are made out of deep love. If you're lucky enough to have that, then you should keep it and cherish it, passion or no passion. Cultivate it, invest in of, make it beautiful and wonderful. If she adores you, loves you, then boy are you lucky. Because you need someone who moves you enough through hardships, and I think the passion evolves and comes in when you least expect it. She will, if she's serious, be your loyal partner through thick and thin, and I know that passion will come. If it doesn't, then you don't get what passion is about. Her adoration of you is the first step.
posted by anniecat at 3:51 PM on July 24, 2010
posted by anniecat at 3:51 PM on July 24, 2010
Every girl I've been crazy passionate about was nuts, I've had many women tell me the same story.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:41 PM on July 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Ironmouth at 7:41 PM on July 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
Will she end up wiping your ass when you can't? When you're old?
Eh, planning your life, and choosing your significant others around that aspect sounds like settling to me. You have to have some shitty self-esteem to assume no one will ever love you again.
posted by griphus at 7:56 PM on July 24, 2010
Eh, planning your life, and choosing your significant others around that aspect sounds like settling to me. You have to have some shitty self-esteem to assume no one will ever love you again.
posted by griphus at 7:56 PM on July 24, 2010
I think the passion evolves and comes in when you least expect it. She will, if she's serious, be your loyal partner through thick and thin, and I know that passion will come. If it doesn't, then you don't get what passion is about. Her adoration of you is the first step.
This is completely untrue in my experience. Look, I think that some people can be totally happy forgoing passion, or maybe a passionless relationship can evolve into something strong and maybe even better in some ways, but it's sheer wishful thinking to think that passion is going to suddenly appear after years. If you're not feeling it at month six, I really don't think it's going to happen, sorry, especially if there's an imbalance.
Every girl I've been crazy passionate about was nuts, I've had many women tell me the same story.
There's a big difference between "crazy passionate" and the natural magnetic force you feel when you're easily, unproblematically drawn to someone. What the OP is describing ("We met via a dating site, had a few dates, and then it just sort of extended. I like her as a person, I really do, and I don't have a problem at all saying I love her") registers almost as indifference, and certainly does not speak to any significant emotional attraction. I'll never understand people who think that attraction has no place in a young relationship -- kinda topsy turvy....
posted by yarly at 8:23 PM on July 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is completely untrue in my experience. Look, I think that some people can be totally happy forgoing passion, or maybe a passionless relationship can evolve into something strong and maybe even better in some ways, but it's sheer wishful thinking to think that passion is going to suddenly appear after years. If you're not feeling it at month six, I really don't think it's going to happen, sorry, especially if there's an imbalance.
Every girl I've been crazy passionate about was nuts, I've had many women tell me the same story.
There's a big difference between "crazy passionate" and the natural magnetic force you feel when you're easily, unproblematically drawn to someone. What the OP is describing ("We met via a dating site, had a few dates, and then it just sort of extended. I like her as a person, I really do, and I don't have a problem at all saying I love her") registers almost as indifference, and certainly does not speak to any significant emotional attraction. I'll never understand people who think that attraction has no place in a young relationship -- kinda topsy turvy....
posted by yarly at 8:23 PM on July 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'll never understand people who think that attraction has no place in a young relationship -- kinda topsy turvy....
QFT. Assuming you're a young man, you'll never be this young again. You'll never have the chance to date and sleep and be with the same amount of women you can date and sleep and be with as you can now. Your whole post sounds like a request for us to rationalize you into staying with a girl you don't want to be with, in my opinion. Get yourself into a situation where you do feel "astonishingly blessed." You deserve it, and so does she.
posted by griphus at 8:34 PM on July 24, 2010
QFT. Assuming you're a young man, you'll never be this young again. You'll never have the chance to date and sleep and be with the same amount of women you can date and sleep and be with as you can now. Your whole post sounds like a request for us to rationalize you into staying with a girl you don't want to be with, in my opinion. Get yourself into a situation where you do feel "astonishingly blessed." You deserve it, and so does she.
posted by griphus at 8:34 PM on July 24, 2010
It depends on what your personal standards are for a relationship and how you define it or how much value you place on "passion". Also, what are your goals? Are you at a place in life where you are looking for "the one", someone to marry/spend your life with/have kids/etc.? If not, then it might not matter: it might be fine for now, and you may see how it goes and see if it blossoms into something deeper or with more passion, OR you may decide that you're young and you want/need passion/intensity/spark/whatever while you are still young and you can "settle" later when you're older.
I'm not saying either of those options are "right" or what I would do, but it really depends on your own desires. Of course, at some point, her desires come into play--if you're discussing making things more serious (moving in together/possible marriage/etc.), then it comes time to make a decision or at least be open with her about your feelings. HOWEVER, if it's only a few months in and you're both young and not too serious, then I probably wouldn't bring it up at this point.
Just my own opinion--this matter isn't black or white, it's a matter of opinion and of course, your's is what matters.
posted by 1000monkeys at 10:53 PM on July 24, 2010
I'm not saying either of those options are "right" or what I would do, but it really depends on your own desires. Of course, at some point, her desires come into play--if you're discussing making things more serious (moving in together/possible marriage/etc.), then it comes time to make a decision or at least be open with her about your feelings. HOWEVER, if it's only a few months in and you're both young and not too serious, then I probably wouldn't bring it up at this point.
Just my own opinion--this matter isn't black or white, it's a matter of opinion and of course, your's is what matters.
posted by 1000monkeys at 10:53 PM on July 24, 2010
Oops: I forgot to add
*you can "settle" later when you're older (OR you might find someone with all those qualities AND you feel passionate about...).
posted by 1000monkeys at 10:54 PM on July 24, 2010
*you can "settle" later when you're older (OR you might find someone with all those qualities AND you feel passionate about...).
posted by 1000monkeys at 10:54 PM on July 24, 2010
I'll never understand people who think that attraction has no place in a young relationship
I don't think anyone has said that.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:50 AM on July 25, 2010
I don't think anyone has said that.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:50 AM on July 25, 2010
I'll never understand people who think that attraction has no place in a young relationship
And probably the only thing that gets you out of your comfortable life rut in middle age
posted by infini at 2:56 AM on July 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
And probably the only thing that gets you out of your comfortable life rut in middle age
posted by infini at 2:56 AM on July 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by modernnomad at 8:12 AM on July 24, 2010