I'm scared my friend will blame me if he gets sick.
April 5, 2024 4:14 PM Subscribe
I had a dinner date with a friend of mine tonight. As I thought he was a good friend, I felt comfortable opening up with him about getting sick on Sunday/Monday (by the way, fully recovered now, just not 100% yet purely from exhaustion/treatment side effects only). He expressed concern about getting sick, but continued to talk about it. I felt incredibly uncomfortable and it was hard keeping my composure.
I almost burst into tears multiple times during our dinner, but managed to regain my composure, and managed to make an excuse for having to leave a bit early.
So, this friend of mine—he knows about my cancer journey, all of it. He was pretty supportive about it, which is why I felt comfortable opening up with him about Monday's misadventure. We were riding a crowded train together, and out of no choice, we were standing next to each other. He then said that he was a bit worried and wanted to make sure I was fully recovered. That part was valid and fine, and I explained that yes, I was perfectly fine—there were a series of tests ran on me, and it was most likely just food poisoning. Plus, I had a friend there for support at the Urgent Care, who didn't get sick right after, and other friends on my birthday were with me and they were fine. He then said that if he got sick, he would let me know. He explained that this was the worst time for him to get sick, because of his schoolwork, etc. I kept trying to reassure him, and eventually, we moved on, but it made me really uncomfortable, like I was holding his health in my hands.
I also explained I feel fatigue/brain fog due to cancer treatments, and at one point, I must have asked him something I already asked before, and he kind of pointed and said, "oh! you already asked me that. That's brain fog!" Just okay?
It has been a rough week for me, and I'm worried because my liver got inflamed a few times so we had to postpone treatments a few times, and my oncologist warned me that if my liver became inflamed, I'd have to cancel/discontinue immunotherapy. This was disheartening because my cancer actually shrunk in the last CT scan, thanks to immunotherapy. I DO NOT NEED THIS BULLSHIT.
I feel unsafe because I'm scared—what if said friend does get sick and he tries to blame me, or hurt me somehow? I can't help that I was close to his face—the fucking train was CROWDED. God, why does everyone have to blame me for everything?!
What do I do? Does he have legal recourse to sue me? What can I say to protect myself IF he texts and lashes out? The UC doctor never said anything about staying away from people, just suggested a bland diet for a few days, and seemed to agree it was food poisoning.
Help me, please. I'm shaking as I write this and I feel so hurt and in disbelief. It was really hard keeping my composure but I managed to do it.
Obviously — no more of this friend. It's over, as far as I'm concerned.
I almost burst into tears multiple times during our dinner, but managed to regain my composure, and managed to make an excuse for having to leave a bit early.
So, this friend of mine—he knows about my cancer journey, all of it. He was pretty supportive about it, which is why I felt comfortable opening up with him about Monday's misadventure. We were riding a crowded train together, and out of no choice, we were standing next to each other. He then said that he was a bit worried and wanted to make sure I was fully recovered. That part was valid and fine, and I explained that yes, I was perfectly fine—there were a series of tests ran on me, and it was most likely just food poisoning. Plus, I had a friend there for support at the Urgent Care, who didn't get sick right after, and other friends on my birthday were with me and they were fine. He then said that if he got sick, he would let me know. He explained that this was the worst time for him to get sick, because of his schoolwork, etc. I kept trying to reassure him, and eventually, we moved on, but it made me really uncomfortable, like I was holding his health in my hands.
I also explained I feel fatigue/brain fog due to cancer treatments, and at one point, I must have asked him something I already asked before, and he kind of pointed and said, "oh! you already asked me that. That's brain fog!" Just okay?
It has been a rough week for me, and I'm worried because my liver got inflamed a few times so we had to postpone treatments a few times, and my oncologist warned me that if my liver became inflamed, I'd have to cancel/discontinue immunotherapy. This was disheartening because my cancer actually shrunk in the last CT scan, thanks to immunotherapy. I DO NOT NEED THIS BULLSHIT.
I feel unsafe because I'm scared—what if said friend does get sick and he tries to blame me, or hurt me somehow? I can't help that I was close to his face—the fucking train was CROWDED. God, why does everyone have to blame me for everything?!
What do I do? Does he have legal recourse to sue me? What can I say to protect myself IF he texts and lashes out? The UC doctor never said anything about staying away from people, just suggested a bland diet for a few days, and seemed to agree it was food poisoning.
Help me, please. I'm shaking as I write this and I feel so hurt and in disbelief. It was really hard keeping my composure but I managed to do it.
Obviously — no more of this friend. It's over, as far as I'm concerned.
Did your parents treat you like it was your fault if you were sick? Mine did, and I recognize your panic.
If your friend blames you, they’re a jerk. Germs happen. But it may be he was running off the mouth out of a form of anxiety/ocd. There is NO way there are any legal repercussions in this. If your friend is mean to you in text, block him. You’re an adult. That’s it. Deep breaths.
You are okay. You’re a human being. It’s also really unlikely you were still contagious. But even if you were, germs do happen. All of this heightened upset is anxiety.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:25 PM on April 5 [20 favorites]
If your friend blames you, they’re a jerk. Germs happen. But it may be he was running off the mouth out of a form of anxiety/ocd. There is NO way there are any legal repercussions in this. If your friend is mean to you in text, block him. You’re an adult. That’s it. Deep breaths.
You are okay. You’re a human being. It’s also really unlikely you were still contagious. But even if you were, germs do happen. All of this heightened upset is anxiety.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:25 PM on April 5 [20 favorites]
Please be good to yourself and try your best to not worry about this guy. His response was overboard/inappropriate and your energy is far more valuable than to spend it on him.
(During a high anxiety period of my life, a licensed counselor told me to just put my 10/10 anxiety on a train and watch it go out of town. I was not in the mental state to just easily release it at that time, but I hope that you can let the worry go.)
I am married to an attorney who is not your attorney. My best friend was once very worried about being sued for a window that malfunctioned after she sold her house. My husband explained to her that any legal recourse would cost more in billable hours than the value of the window and no one would pursue that. One, it seems unlikely from everything you said that this guy could even catch anything from you and even if he did, it would not be worth suing over (if one even could sue for such a thing).
Cancer is awful and I wish you the best on your treatments.
posted by icaicaer at 4:27 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
(During a high anxiety period of my life, a licensed counselor told me to just put my 10/10 anxiety on a train and watch it go out of town. I was not in the mental state to just easily release it at that time, but I hope that you can let the worry go.)
I am married to an attorney who is not your attorney. My best friend was once very worried about being sued for a window that malfunctioned after she sold her house. My husband explained to her that any legal recourse would cost more in billable hours than the value of the window and no one would pursue that. One, it seems unlikely from everything you said that this guy could even catch anything from you and even if he did, it would not be worth suing over (if one even could sue for such a thing).
Cancer is awful and I wish you the best on your treatments.
posted by icaicaer at 4:27 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
Aw...poor little guy is worried that he might catch a stomach bug from his immunocompromised friend? A friend who's being treated for cancer? And he's so worried because getting sick would be inconvenient due to schoolwork?
He sounds like he's in high school. Honestly. Some people are so chockfull of entitlement, it's hard to believe.
"I feel unsafe because I'm scared—what if said friend does get sick and he tries to blame me, or hurt me somehow?"
If he tries to blame you, let him. You don't need to listen. The world is full of incorrect beliefs, what's one more?
If you have reason to believe he might hurt you, alert the authorities.
"What do I do? Does he have legal recourse to sue me?"
Hahaha. He wishes. No. It's like you sign away your guaranteed germ-free experience whenever you venture among people. On a crowded train, all bets are off.
"What can I say to protect myself IF he texts and lashes out?"
I would not reply. I'd probably block him. I know the urge to defend yourself is strong, but you cannot reason with unreasonable people. Instead, try talking to other people about him, like you're doing here. Not people you both know, that'd just be creating more drama. But just being reassured that your friend's behaviour is despicable is good for you, and it'll calm the instinctive anxiety response we all feel when we're treated badly.
I'm happy you're feeling better, sad that you had a bad week, and angry at the idiot. Maybe think about how you could treat yourself this weekend?
posted by toucan at 5:26 PM on April 5 [3 favorites]
He sounds like he's in high school. Honestly. Some people are so chockfull of entitlement, it's hard to believe.
"I feel unsafe because I'm scared—what if said friend does get sick and he tries to blame me, or hurt me somehow?"
If he tries to blame you, let him. You don't need to listen. The world is full of incorrect beliefs, what's one more?
If you have reason to believe he might hurt you, alert the authorities.
"What do I do? Does he have legal recourse to sue me?"
Hahaha. He wishes. No. It's like you sign away your guaranteed germ-free experience whenever you venture among people. On a crowded train, all bets are off.
"What can I say to protect myself IF he texts and lashes out?"
I would not reply. I'd probably block him. I know the urge to defend yourself is strong, but you cannot reason with unreasonable people. Instead, try talking to other people about him, like you're doing here. Not people you both know, that'd just be creating more drama. But just being reassured that your friend's behaviour is despicable is good for you, and it'll calm the instinctive anxiety response we all feel when we're treated badly.
I'm happy you're feeling better, sad that you had a bad week, and angry at the idiot. Maybe think about how you could treat yourself this weekend?
posted by toucan at 5:26 PM on April 5 [3 favorites]
For fuck's sake, a cancer patient could feel sick for a ton of reasons, none of which are probably contagious to this so-called friend. Also, just because you're around someone sick doesn't mean you'll always get it. I had pneumonia, coughed all over my ex, and he didn't get it (probably because he was the carrier actually), my mom had the flu and I had to share a bedroom with her and I didn't get it.
Friend needs to back the hell off.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:27 PM on April 5
Friend needs to back the hell off.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:27 PM on April 5
I feel unsafe because I'm scared—what if said friend does get sick and he tries to blame me, or hurt me somehow? I can't help that I was close to his face—the fucking train was CROWDED. God, why does everyone have to blame me for everything?!
What do I do? Does he have legal recourse to sue me? What can I say to protect myself IF he texts and lashes out?
You know, this is a lot of drama! But Hollywood-script type, not real-life type. What if he tries to blame you? You say "Being sick sucks, sorry to hear that" and "I can't talk right now, feel better". Hurt you? Sue you? Is this remotely likely to happen? Are your friends people who punch or sue others for random stuff? This is some extreme anxiety talking, it honestly sounds disconnected from reality. Maybe your friend's a jerk, maybe he was just stressed himself and guilty of some social awkwardness.
It sounds like you're having a hard time emotionally. You've been through a bunch of roller coasters both physically and mentally, and it's clear that's having an effect. Get some rest, take some (a lot) of deep breaths, turn off your phone for a bit, and find a way to recalibrate. If you're not seeing a therapist who specializes in anxiety, consider it.
FWIW, learning to recognize when emotional reactions have more to do with preexisting physical and mental stress spilling over than with any immediate trigger is hard but really important.
Good luck.
posted by trig at 5:31 PM on April 5 [43 favorites]
What do I do? Does he have legal recourse to sue me? What can I say to protect myself IF he texts and lashes out?
You know, this is a lot of drama! But Hollywood-script type, not real-life type. What if he tries to blame you? You say "Being sick sucks, sorry to hear that" and "I can't talk right now, feel better". Hurt you? Sue you? Is this remotely likely to happen? Are your friends people who punch or sue others for random stuff? This is some extreme anxiety talking, it honestly sounds disconnected from reality. Maybe your friend's a jerk, maybe he was just stressed himself and guilty of some social awkwardness.
It sounds like you're having a hard time emotionally. You've been through a bunch of roller coasters both physically and mentally, and it's clear that's having an effect. Get some rest, take some (a lot) of deep breaths, turn off your phone for a bit, and find a way to recalibrate. If you're not seeing a therapist who specializes in anxiety, consider it.
FWIW, learning to recognize when emotional reactions have more to do with preexisting physical and mental stress spilling over than with any immediate trigger is hard but really important.
Good luck.
posted by trig at 5:31 PM on April 5 [43 favorites]
"He explained that this was the worst time for him to get sick, because of his schoolwork, etc."
Sounds like he's in for a surprise when his responsibilities go up due to being an adult. Imagine--you're sick, your kid is sick, you don't have any (more) sick days at work, the car needs repairs, etc. All at the same time. In other words, getting sick at "the worst time" is part of life. Cancer sucks and having cancer at any time is "the worst time." But does he care about that? Nope, it's all about him.
Forget him. He's now an ex-friend. Stick to people who are more understanding, more supportive, and don't blame you for their problems.
posted by Meldanthral at 5:32 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
Sounds like he's in for a surprise when his responsibilities go up due to being an adult. Imagine--you're sick, your kid is sick, you don't have any (more) sick days at work, the car needs repairs, etc. All at the same time. In other words, getting sick at "the worst time" is part of life. Cancer sucks and having cancer at any time is "the worst time." But does he care about that? Nope, it's all about him.
Forget him. He's now an ex-friend. Stick to people who are more understanding, more supportive, and don't blame you for their problems.
posted by Meldanthral at 5:32 PM on April 5 [5 favorites]
Yeah, seems like a not-friend.
As someone who is still wearing a mask in public, WTF?
Not anything to do with you d_d.
posted by Windopaene at 5:39 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
As someone who is still wearing a mask in public, WTF?
Not anything to do with you d_d.
posted by Windopaene at 5:39 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
I’m sorry you had this stressful conversation!
For what it’s worth, as someone who is really cautious around potential exposures to sick people because of medical issues in my home, if you and I had that conversation I might have *thought* to myself “man, I wish I’d known about this before we got together, I would probably have cancelled out of an abundance of caution.” And then I would have *kept that to myself* and not made my risk management concerns a stress source for my immunocompromised and ill friend who was telling me something personal and vulnerable.
Your friend handled his concern badly. That conversation was not your fault. His health is not your responsibility, unless he has conveyed to you previously that he is e.g. being careful about illness exposure and would like you to tell him before get-togethers if you’ve been ill in the past week. (A thing I have asked of friends at times, and they have graciously complied, but if I don’t ask, that’s on me.)
If he gets sick and sends you mean messages, you can ignore or block them. Anyone can sue anyone for most anything if they are really off the deep end and can find someone willing to do it, but no case based on “I caught an annoying stomach bug from my friend” would go anywhere.
You have enough going on in your life. You don’t need to spend time with people who make you feel badly. It’s absolutely fine to leave this guy to his busy life of schoolwork and spend your time and energy on people who leave you feeling good about the time you spend together.
posted by Stacey at 5:48 PM on April 5 [4 favorites]
For what it’s worth, as someone who is really cautious around potential exposures to sick people because of medical issues in my home, if you and I had that conversation I might have *thought* to myself “man, I wish I’d known about this before we got together, I would probably have cancelled out of an abundance of caution.” And then I would have *kept that to myself* and not made my risk management concerns a stress source for my immunocompromised and ill friend who was telling me something personal and vulnerable.
Your friend handled his concern badly. That conversation was not your fault. His health is not your responsibility, unless he has conveyed to you previously that he is e.g. being careful about illness exposure and would like you to tell him before get-togethers if you’ve been ill in the past week. (A thing I have asked of friends at times, and they have graciously complied, but if I don’t ask, that’s on me.)
If he gets sick and sends you mean messages, you can ignore or block them. Anyone can sue anyone for most anything if they are really off the deep end and can find someone willing to do it, but no case based on “I caught an annoying stomach bug from my friend” would go anywhere.
You have enough going on in your life. You don’t need to spend time with people who make you feel badly. It’s absolutely fine to leave this guy to his busy life of schoolwork and spend your time and energy on people who leave you feeling good about the time you spend together.
posted by Stacey at 5:48 PM on April 5 [4 favorites]
If he were soooo worried about getting sick he could have turned away or ended the dinner date. But he didn't. This is not on you.
posted by Sassyfras at 5:48 PM on April 5 [6 favorites]
posted by Sassyfras at 5:48 PM on April 5 [6 favorites]
I feel unsafe because I'm scared—what if said friend does get sick and he tries to blame me, or hurt me somehow?
It doesn't sound like he handled his own anxiety well at all, especially talking to someone in your position, and you're entitled to feel moderately peeved about that, sure, but where is this fear of escalation coming from? What would be the result of his "blaming" you? What do you need to "protect" yourself from? What would he even sue (???) you for? In short, did he threaten you? Has he ever?
If not...are you seeing a therapist with an oncology/terminal illness focus? Because you're very reasonably full of fear and sadness and probably anger too, but projecting that outward onto a conflict that you can bring to AskMe to be soothed over...in the end, it's probably not the best coping mechanism. It seems this cycle is making you feel worse, not better. And you deserve to feel as good as you possibly can right now.
posted by praemunire at 6:02 PM on April 5 [19 favorites]
It doesn't sound like he handled his own anxiety well at all, especially talking to someone in your position, and you're entitled to feel moderately peeved about that, sure, but where is this fear of escalation coming from? What would be the result of his "blaming" you? What do you need to "protect" yourself from? What would he even sue (???) you for? In short, did he threaten you? Has he ever?
If not...are you seeing a therapist with an oncology/terminal illness focus? Because you're very reasonably full of fear and sadness and probably anger too, but projecting that outward onto a conflict that you can bring to AskMe to be soothed over...in the end, it's probably not the best coping mechanism. It seems this cycle is making you feel worse, not better. And you deserve to feel as good as you possibly can right now.
posted by praemunire at 6:02 PM on April 5 [19 favorites]
Response by poster: Okay, I've had a chance to take some deep breaths and reflect.
You know, this is a lot of drama! But Hollywood-script type, not real-life type.
I agree. Let me explain a bit more why I felt so scared and upset. We both are Deaf, in the Deaf community, and what I meant when I said "hurt" me is hurt my reputation, make it sound like I intentionally got him sick (if he gets sick) when I purposefully got together with him after being overnighted at Urgent Care.
This friend left school on and off over the course of ~10-15 years and is finally almost finished with his master's, so stakes are high for him which is why he is adamant on nothing messing things up between now and the end of his semester, and his practicum, and his future internship. I was worried that people would judge me and say I should have just stayed home. This friend also has had shown some red-flag behaviors in the past such as twisting words and gaslighting (minor) which I chose to overlook and look the best in him and trust him enough with something vulnerable and personal (what happened on Monday). Obviously, this was the final straw and I will not continue to pursue a friendship with him moving forward.
I felt extremely triggered because he brought it up out of the blue on the subway ("hey, you sure you're recovered? I'm paranoid because your face is close to mine") so it caught me very off guard, and I felt really hurt and destroyed because I had earlier shared something very extremely personal and vulnerable and he SEEMED sympathetic/unjudgmental up until that point, so it was just unexpected, and the conversation just stumbled badly from there, with me trying to reassure him, and I felt he was "aggressive" by saying he would let me know if he got sick. I mean, how could he even know then that it was because of me? He could get sick from anyone. I felt like there was a huge weight on my shoulders and if his life went boom, it was because of me.
So, I was feeling very uncomfortable because he kept talking about it and he didn't seem to be reassured, especially talking about his studies and everything. Ironically, when we arrived to the restaurant, I pointed out that my friend who visited me at the UC was not sick, he cut me off and said not to worry about it. Then when later, he pointed out my brain fog, I felt like he was (unintentionally) using something else I shared with him against me. I don't know if that makes sense, but that's how it felt. It might have been awkwardness or stream-of-consciousness on his end, but it made me feel uncomfortable and like my softness/shared vulnerability was kind of used against me, sneakily.
He would not hurt me physically, no, it's just more of my reputation in the Deaf community, which is very small as is, and people are quick to judge, and things has a way of getting back to you badly even if you didn't do anything wrong. It's hard to explain. As for suing, my thought process was that, "well, DD was sick overnight in the UC so therefore he should have known better and not gotten together with me".
I would not reply.
That would be out of character for me because I'm always responsive. I need a script that would make it clear to deflect all the blame off me.
Original post clarification:
I'm worried because my liver got inflamed a few times so we had to postpone treatments a few times, and my oncologist warned me that if my liver became inflamed AGAIN, I'd have to cancel/discontinue immunotherapy. (forgot to add "again")
posted by dubious_dude at 6:35 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
You know, this is a lot of drama! But Hollywood-script type, not real-life type.
I agree. Let me explain a bit more why I felt so scared and upset. We both are Deaf, in the Deaf community, and what I meant when I said "hurt" me is hurt my reputation, make it sound like I intentionally got him sick (if he gets sick) when I purposefully got together with him after being overnighted at Urgent Care.
This friend left school on and off over the course of ~10-15 years and is finally almost finished with his master's, so stakes are high for him which is why he is adamant on nothing messing things up between now and the end of his semester, and his practicum, and his future internship. I was worried that people would judge me and say I should have just stayed home. This friend also has had shown some red-flag behaviors in the past such as twisting words and gaslighting (minor) which I chose to overlook and look the best in him and trust him enough with something vulnerable and personal (what happened on Monday). Obviously, this was the final straw and I will not continue to pursue a friendship with him moving forward.
I felt extremely triggered because he brought it up out of the blue on the subway ("hey, you sure you're recovered? I'm paranoid because your face is close to mine") so it caught me very off guard, and I felt really hurt and destroyed because I had earlier shared something very extremely personal and vulnerable and he SEEMED sympathetic/unjudgmental up until that point, so it was just unexpected, and the conversation just stumbled badly from there, with me trying to reassure him, and I felt he was "aggressive" by saying he would let me know if he got sick. I mean, how could he even know then that it was because of me? He could get sick from anyone. I felt like there was a huge weight on my shoulders and if his life went boom, it was because of me.
So, I was feeling very uncomfortable because he kept talking about it and he didn't seem to be reassured, especially talking about his studies and everything. Ironically, when we arrived to the restaurant, I pointed out that my friend who visited me at the UC was not sick, he cut me off and said not to worry about it. Then when later, he pointed out my brain fog, I felt like he was (unintentionally) using something else I shared with him against me. I don't know if that makes sense, but that's how it felt. It might have been awkwardness or stream-of-consciousness on his end, but it made me feel uncomfortable and like my softness/shared vulnerability was kind of used against me, sneakily.
He would not hurt me physically, no, it's just more of my reputation in the Deaf community, which is very small as is, and people are quick to judge, and things has a way of getting back to you badly even if you didn't do anything wrong. It's hard to explain. As for suing, my thought process was that, "well, DD was sick overnight in the UC so therefore he should have known better and not gotten together with me".
I would not reply.
That would be out of character for me because I'm always responsive. I need a script that would make it clear to deflect all the blame off me.
Original post clarification:
I'm worried because my liver got inflamed a few times so we had to postpone treatments a few times, and my oncologist warned me that if my liver became inflamed AGAIN, I'd have to cancel/discontinue immunotherapy. (forgot to add "again")
posted by dubious_dude at 6:35 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
what I meant when I said "hurt" me is hurt my reputation, make it sound like I intentionally got him sick (if he gets sick) when I purposefully got together with him after being overnighted at Urgent Care.
Okay, that makes a (little) bit more sense. But: you have a tendency to drama, and it sounds like at least some of the people you hang out with have that tendency too. Should this actually happen, and this guy goes around telling people you intentionally got him sick - a scenario that is at this point 100% an imaginary projection - then what you do is use this to look around and see which of the members of your community are *not* judging you or criticizing you or any other such silly reaction, and make a mental note that maybe these people have their heads screwed on little a bit straighter relative to the others. And make an opposite note for anyone who might happen to react as harshly as you seem to be imagining. These would just be individual data points, not enough to base a real judgment on. But for any future "event" like this, where people do or don't get worked up about something minor, take note. And little by little start to gravitate towards the people who consistently have less of the drama instinct, and see if you can calibrate yourself a bit more in that direction.
I need a script that would make it clear to deflect all the blame off me.
I'm really not sure that coming up with a script for this imaginary scenario would help your anxiety rather than feed it, but in case I'm wrong: say "I'm sorry, it sucks so much to be sick and I know this is lousy timing for you. I've been fine since Monday and regardless the doctors said they thought it was food poisoning, which I'm pretty sure isn't communicable. There's a lot of viruses going around right now and it sounds like you got one [sad face emoji]. Anyway, feel better friend and I hope you get better soon."
I think having someone like a therapist to bring things like this to would be really helpful. The tendency here on Ask is almost always to take the asker's side and come down very, very hard on whoever they're complaining about, even though we don't know them and haven't heard their side of the story; we might be right, but most of the time we do not and cannot have the perspective to speak with any kind of certainty. I really recommend trying to get to a point where you have multiple people around you who know you and can give you relatively objective, clear-eyed, and minimal-drama perspectives on the things you encounter - if only as a counterpoint.
I also think you've been through enough events lately that a therapist would be helpful in general, if only as someone to spill things out to.
In the meantime, if you're in any other situations where you feel like your nerves are starting to spill over, try to acknowledge that fact to yourself, say "sorry, I'm suddenly having a bit of a panic attack" (or whatever), and end whatever stressful situation you're in early to go rest.
posted by trig at 7:11 PM on April 5 [16 favorites]
Okay, that makes a (little) bit more sense. But: you have a tendency to drama, and it sounds like at least some of the people you hang out with have that tendency too. Should this actually happen, and this guy goes around telling people you intentionally got him sick - a scenario that is at this point 100% an imaginary projection - then what you do is use this to look around and see which of the members of your community are *not* judging you or criticizing you or any other such silly reaction, and make a mental note that maybe these people have their heads screwed on little a bit straighter relative to the others. And make an opposite note for anyone who might happen to react as harshly as you seem to be imagining. These would just be individual data points, not enough to base a real judgment on. But for any future "event" like this, where people do or don't get worked up about something minor, take note. And little by little start to gravitate towards the people who consistently have less of the drama instinct, and see if you can calibrate yourself a bit more in that direction.
I need a script that would make it clear to deflect all the blame off me.
I'm really not sure that coming up with a script for this imaginary scenario would help your anxiety rather than feed it, but in case I'm wrong: say "I'm sorry, it sucks so much to be sick and I know this is lousy timing for you. I've been fine since Monday and regardless the doctors said they thought it was food poisoning, which I'm pretty sure isn't communicable. There's a lot of viruses going around right now and it sounds like you got one [sad face emoji]. Anyway, feel better friend and I hope you get better soon."
I think having someone like a therapist to bring things like this to would be really helpful. The tendency here on Ask is almost always to take the asker's side and come down very, very hard on whoever they're complaining about, even though we don't know them and haven't heard their side of the story; we might be right, but most of the time we do not and cannot have the perspective to speak with any kind of certainty. I really recommend trying to get to a point where you have multiple people around you who know you and can give you relatively objective, clear-eyed, and minimal-drama perspectives on the things you encounter - if only as a counterpoint.
I also think you've been through enough events lately that a therapist would be helpful in general, if only as someone to spill things out to.
In the meantime, if you're in any other situations where you feel like your nerves are starting to spill over, try to acknowledge that fact to yourself, say "sorry, I'm suddenly having a bit of a panic attack" (or whatever), and end whatever stressful situation you're in early to go rest.
posted by trig at 7:11 PM on April 5 [16 favorites]
People are complicated. He seems incredibly stressed out and that is probably limiting his ability to be socially kind and conscious in the way he might normally be.
It seems like you have relied a lot this friend and I think it's important to re-frame why he might be acting this way since it seems unusual based on his prior support. While he would surely be greatly inconvenienced by a cold and it might provide some setbacks for him, it would be significantly more of a set back for him to waste his time and energy ruining your reputation instead of focusing on getting well from any cold he picks up.
The pandemic made people really hyper-focused on infection risks and I think many people sort of forgot that there are hundreds of types of "common colds" not to even begin on other viruses and infections.
It's not you, and if he has so far been a decent friend before now, one of the easiest ways to confirm this would be to reach out and be like "hey, are you doing ok? It seemed like you were really worried about getting sick and you're really stressed about school and life. Do you want to talk about some of things that have been stressing you out recently?" Odds are he won't respond with blame, but will open up.
posted by donut_princess at 7:16 PM on April 5 [4 favorites]
It seems like you have relied a lot this friend and I think it's important to re-frame why he might be acting this way since it seems unusual based on his prior support. While he would surely be greatly inconvenienced by a cold and it might provide some setbacks for him, it would be significantly more of a set back for him to waste his time and energy ruining your reputation instead of focusing on getting well from any cold he picks up.
The pandemic made people really hyper-focused on infection risks and I think many people sort of forgot that there are hundreds of types of "common colds" not to even begin on other viruses and infections.
It's not you, and if he has so far been a decent friend before now, one of the easiest ways to confirm this would be to reach out and be like "hey, are you doing ok? It seemed like you were really worried about getting sick and you're really stressed about school and life. Do you want to talk about some of things that have been stressing you out recently?" Odds are he won't respond with blame, but will open up.
posted by donut_princess at 7:16 PM on April 5 [4 favorites]
Seconding therapist. There are a lot of people here who care about you, but at the end of the day we're all just internet weirdos (even if we are mostly caring internet weirdos). A legit therapist could be very helpful in navigating some of this from a perspective of "trained to help," not just "want to help." I have no idea how hard it could be to find a Deaf-friendly therapist in DC (but given Gallaudet's in town, I'm betting there are some around) but I think it could really help.
Agree that you're doing some of the "I want to control people around me" thing here, which I've commented on in other questions -- you can't stop this guy from getting sick from exposure to something that's not you. If this guy gets sick, and tries to blame you, you can't stop him, you can only say "it's unlikely that's so because the doctors think it was food poisoning, and other people who were around me since then didn't get sick." Unfortunately that isn't some kind of magic talisman that's going to force everyone to take your side, it's just the truth. Agree that if he does do this, then how people react will give you a lot of solid intel about your friends.
Hang in there, dude.
posted by Alterscape at 7:17 PM on April 5 [7 favorites]
Agree that you're doing some of the "I want to control people around me" thing here, which I've commented on in other questions -- you can't stop this guy from getting sick from exposure to something that's not you. If this guy gets sick, and tries to blame you, you can't stop him, you can only say "it's unlikely that's so because the doctors think it was food poisoning, and other people who were around me since then didn't get sick." Unfortunately that isn't some kind of magic talisman that's going to force everyone to take your side, it's just the truth. Agree that if he does do this, then how people react will give you a lot of solid intel about your friends.
Hang in there, dude.
posted by Alterscape at 7:17 PM on April 5 [7 favorites]
Just to address the practical side of your question: it's very unlikely that your friend would have gotten sick from the interactions you had tonight, even if you had been sick with a contagious virus.
Norovirus doesn't pass through the air via breathing, and it sounds like you're at least 3-4 days out from your last vomiting episode. CDC guidelines say that you can shed the virus for up to two weeks, but that's like if you don't wash your hands after going #2 and then you prepared food that he ate, or touched something with a poopy hand that he then put in his mouth. That's basically the only way you could have transmitted such a bug to him at this stage in your recovery.
I'd check up on him after 48 hours to make sure he's fine and then just keep it light. I do sympathize with someone fearing norovirus, and I also think he went about this in an uncouth way (possibly due to extreme anxiety about it, but still, it wasn't cool). It would be an extreme jerk move of him to blame you if he did get sick, and I think any reasonable person would agree--this shouldn't be something that would affect you in the community. I'm rooting for you, and I don't want this to be a huge drag because you didn't do anything wrong!!
posted by knotty knots at 8:29 PM on April 5 [3 favorites]
Norovirus doesn't pass through the air via breathing, and it sounds like you're at least 3-4 days out from your last vomiting episode. CDC guidelines say that you can shed the virus for up to two weeks, but that's like if you don't wash your hands after going #2 and then you prepared food that he ate, or touched something with a poopy hand that he then put in his mouth. That's basically the only way you could have transmitted such a bug to him at this stage in your recovery.
I'd check up on him after 48 hours to make sure he's fine and then just keep it light. I do sympathize with someone fearing norovirus, and I also think he went about this in an uncouth way (possibly due to extreme anxiety about it, but still, it wasn't cool). It would be an extreme jerk move of him to blame you if he did get sick, and I think any reasonable person would agree--this shouldn't be something that would affect you in the community. I'm rooting for you, and I don't want this to be a huge drag because you didn't do anything wrong!!
posted by knotty knots at 8:29 PM on April 5 [3 favorites]
I felt extremely triggered because he brought it up out of the blue on the subway ("hey, you sure you're recovered? I'm paranoid because your face is close to mine") so it caught me very off guard
With respect, this is not how any useful conception of "triggering" (experiencing a serious, uncontrollable trauma response) works. I've noticed you've used this language (and words like "unsafe") before, and I suspect you've spent time in a crowd where saying you've been "triggered by xyz" (or "felt unsafe") means that whoever did or said xyz has hurt you and your feelings and reactions are unimpeachable as a basis for action. In fact, just because you have a negative reaction to something someone did/said doesn't mean you were victimized by that person and you've become the protagonist of an oppression narrative. I was suggesting that a therapist might help because I think you might benefit a lot from getting away from the pop-psych buzzwords and reframing so that you could get more ability to manage your reactions--I don't mean in the very moment of feeling them, but afterwards, when you can ask yourself: now, why did I feel so strongly about that? Was the strength of my reaction proportionate to what was actually happening around me? If not, was it maybe related to something else that the words/action brought up in me? How can I address that separately from this?
Because, well, there's your family throwing you into the cold water against your will when you were already sick--truly cruel and aggressive behavior--and then there's this guy, who's been supportive at other times, being kind of dickish out of his own anxiety. You were upset at what he said (again, reasonable) and now you've spun up these awful speculative scenarios and are trying to achieve things that literally are not possible (scripts that somehow would deflect all blame from you if he tried, weirdly and improbably, to "hurt" you by persuading your community that somehow you deliberately got him ill...if people are inclined to believe that, a script isn't going to prevent it). Not to mention brushing off people trying to defuse your feelings by clinging to the imaginary scenario (who cares if it's "out of character" for you not to be "responsive?" If someone texts you crazy talk, you don't text back). You're turning a somewhat unpleasant social experience into a nightmare Friday evening, shaking and feeling sick. This has to suck for you! Don't you want to get off this train?
Very glad your immunotherapy is working, keeping my fingers crossed for your liver!
posted by praemunire at 8:51 PM on April 5 [61 favorites]
With respect, this is not how any useful conception of "triggering" (experiencing a serious, uncontrollable trauma response) works. I've noticed you've used this language (and words like "unsafe") before, and I suspect you've spent time in a crowd where saying you've been "triggered by xyz" (or "felt unsafe") means that whoever did or said xyz has hurt you and your feelings and reactions are unimpeachable as a basis for action. In fact, just because you have a negative reaction to something someone did/said doesn't mean you were victimized by that person and you've become the protagonist of an oppression narrative. I was suggesting that a therapist might help because I think you might benefit a lot from getting away from the pop-psych buzzwords and reframing so that you could get more ability to manage your reactions--I don't mean in the very moment of feeling them, but afterwards, when you can ask yourself: now, why did I feel so strongly about that? Was the strength of my reaction proportionate to what was actually happening around me? If not, was it maybe related to something else that the words/action brought up in me? How can I address that separately from this?
Because, well, there's your family throwing you into the cold water against your will when you were already sick--truly cruel and aggressive behavior--and then there's this guy, who's been supportive at other times, being kind of dickish out of his own anxiety. You were upset at what he said (again, reasonable) and now you've spun up these awful speculative scenarios and are trying to achieve things that literally are not possible (scripts that somehow would deflect all blame from you if he tried, weirdly and improbably, to "hurt" you by persuading your community that somehow you deliberately got him ill...if people are inclined to believe that, a script isn't going to prevent it). Not to mention brushing off people trying to defuse your feelings by clinging to the imaginary scenario (who cares if it's "out of character" for you not to be "responsive?" If someone texts you crazy talk, you don't text back). You're turning a somewhat unpleasant social experience into a nightmare Friday evening, shaking and feeling sick. This has to suck for you! Don't you want to get off this train?
Very glad your immunotherapy is working, keeping my fingers crossed for your liver!
posted by praemunire at 8:51 PM on April 5 [61 favorites]
I also have a tendency towards anxiety and obsessive thoughts and in my case at least, I think constantly asking for reassurance after an anxiety-provoking situation actually makes the anxiety worse, rather than better. From reading this question, I get the sense that you're making a bid for reassurance (essentially, "please convince me that there is no way that my worst, most terrifying anxiety--my friend suing me for getting him sick--will happen") and getting that reassurance will temporarily make you feel better but it can turn into a kind of compulsive thing that makes the anxiety worse in the long run. I'm no expert but I suggest maybe trying to cope with these feelings of terrible anxiety after situations that, to a non-anxious brain, would probably not seem so catastrophic by trying to manage them internally, rather than always seeking external reassurance. Easier said than done, though, for sure!
Also sending you so many good wishes for your health and recovery.
posted by lizard2590 at 9:02 PM on April 5 [18 favorites]
Also sending you so many good wishes for your health and recovery.
posted by lizard2590 at 9:02 PM on April 5 [18 favorites]
As a Very Anxious Person myself, absolutely support lizard2590 in this.
I've realised that I have the power to reassure myself, and that there's a difference between that and invalidating myself.
With this, my internal monologue might look like this: "wow I'm really upset about this. That's understandable, I'm having a tough time right now. I'm worried about what Friend might do, but there's nothing I can do to control that situation, and thinking about it is making me feel worse.
So let's just set this whole thing aside for the moment. If [scary thing] happens, I'll deal with it. I'll cope, I'll figure it out myself, or I'll ask for help. "
If I catch myself staring to ruminate and catastrophise again (and I inevitably will) I just note it (" Hey, interesting, I'm catastrophising again, weird brain thing! ") and find a way to distract myself.
Remind yourself "I crave reassurance, who doesn't, but I am lucky because I have the ability to reassure myself," and give yourself a kind, nurturing hug. Cuddle a soft toy or a pet, do something your body finds soothing, or some small, useful task like making the bed.
Sending you all the kind vibes.
posted by Zumbador at 11:12 PM on April 5 [12 favorites]
I've realised that I have the power to reassure myself, and that there's a difference between that and invalidating myself.
With this, my internal monologue might look like this: "wow I'm really upset about this. That's understandable, I'm having a tough time right now. I'm worried about what Friend might do, but there's nothing I can do to control that situation, and thinking about it is making me feel worse.
So let's just set this whole thing aside for the moment. If [scary thing] happens, I'll deal with it. I'll cope, I'll figure it out myself, or I'll ask for help. "
If I catch myself staring to ruminate and catastrophise again (and I inevitably will) I just note it (" Hey, interesting, I'm catastrophising again, weird brain thing! ") and find a way to distract myself.
Remind yourself "I crave reassurance, who doesn't, but I am lucky because I have the ability to reassure myself," and give yourself a kind, nurturing hug. Cuddle a soft toy or a pet, do something your body finds soothing, or some small, useful task like making the bed.
Sending you all the kind vibes.
posted by Zumbador at 11:12 PM on April 5 [12 favorites]
Dude, just a few edits for the next time you go down a spiral like this:
I felt extremely triggered because he brought it up out of the blue on the subway ("hey, you sure you're recovered? I'm paranoid because your face is close to mine") so it caught me very off guard, and I felt really hurt and destroyed because I had earlier shared something very extremely personal and vulnerable and he SEEMED sympathetic/unjudgmental up until that point, so it was just unexpected, and the conversation just stumbled badly from there, with me trying to reassure him, and I felt he was "aggressive" by saying he would let me know if he got sick.
I don't know what I think about this guy, but I don't see the relationship between the first thing (you sharing) and the second thing (him worrying about getting sick). I think your expectations here are off. I DO think you were starting to get anxious and spirally because you shared this thing, so your adrenaline was up and you were kind of looking for a trigger here (subconsciously.) This is something you can learn to control. If you do something that makes you feel really vulnerable.
So, I was feeling very uncomfortable because he kept talking about it and he didn't seem to be reassured, especially talking about his studies and everything. Ironically, when we arrived to the restaurant, I pointed out that my friend who visited me at the UC was not sick, he cut me off and said not to worry about it.
Notice how you didn't believe him when he kind of took responsibility for his own fears here.
Then when later, he pointed out my brain fog, I felt like he was (unintentionally) using something else I shared with him against me. I don't know if that makes sense, but that's how it felt. It might have been awkwardness or stream-of-consciousness on his end, but it made me feel uncomfortable and like my softness/shared vulnerability was kind of used against me, sneakily.
I can't tell you what he meant and you were there. However, I'll just point out that this again is really, really feelings-based and is hard to see as a connection from the outside. it seems more related to your vulnerable feelings than to his actions. I don't see a relationship between that and ill intent necessarily - he may have been trying to acknowledge what you shared. Or he may have been being a jerk. But from here it seems possible you were spiralling into a fear/fight/flight/fawn response.
He would not hurt me physically, no, it's just more of my reputation in the Deaf community, which is very small as is, and people are quick to judge, and things has a way of getting back to you badly even if you didn't do anything wrong. It's hard to explain. As for suing, my thought process was that, "well, DD was sick overnight in the UC so therefore he should have known better and not gotten together with me".
I'm not Deaf, so can't really speak to this, but I think your community has a problem if someone having been told they have food poisoning who then goes out with someone who continues hanging out with them for hours and says "don't worry about it" ends up with a trashed reputation. I think this fear of yours, that you will lose your Deaf community in some way, is a theme throughout your posts.
I would ask you how many people in your community have been excommunicated over the years? Does this 'loss of reputation' just mean people talk about them for a while or is this a real social risk? And if so, what do people who have been excommunicated do for friends and social groups after? It might be worth reaching out to them so that you have feet in two worlds, so to speak.
That would be out of character for me because I'm always responsive. I need a script that would make it clear to deflect all the blame off me.
No you don't need to have a script for this situation. There is no judge and jury of communication that you have to convince. If someone is blaming you for something or being dramatic over very normal things, you can just disengage. Your adrenal system won't like that - your adrenal system wants you to fight or keep engaged so you can see the tiger in the grass, but your adrenal system is designed to keep you alive, not to keep your social supports in place or help you enjoy your day.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:20 AM on April 6 [13 favorites]
I felt extremely triggered because he brought it up out of the blue on the subway ("hey, you sure you're recovered? I'm paranoid because your face is close to mine") so it caught me very off guard, and I felt really hurt and destroyed because I had earlier shared something very extremely personal and vulnerable and he SEEMED sympathetic/unjudgmental up until that point, so it was just unexpected, and the conversation just stumbled badly from there, with me trying to reassure him, and I felt he was "aggressive" by saying he would let me know if he got sick.
I don't know what I think about this guy, but I don't see the relationship between the first thing (you sharing) and the second thing (him worrying about getting sick). I think your expectations here are off. I DO think you were starting to get anxious and spirally because you shared this thing, so your adrenaline was up and you were kind of looking for a trigger here (subconsciously.) This is something you can learn to control. If you do something that makes you feel really vulnerable.
So, I was feeling very uncomfortable because he kept talking about it and he didn't seem to be reassured, especially talking about his studies and everything. Ironically, when we arrived to the restaurant, I pointed out that my friend who visited me at the UC was not sick, he cut me off and said not to worry about it.
Notice how you didn't believe him when he kind of took responsibility for his own fears here.
Then when later, he pointed out my brain fog, I felt like he was (unintentionally) using something else I shared with him against me. I don't know if that makes sense, but that's how it felt. It might have been awkwardness or stream-of-consciousness on his end, but it made me feel uncomfortable and like my softness/shared vulnerability was kind of used against me, sneakily.
I can't tell you what he meant and you were there. However, I'll just point out that this again is really, really feelings-based and is hard to see as a connection from the outside. it seems more related to your vulnerable feelings than to his actions. I don't see a relationship between that and ill intent necessarily - he may have been trying to acknowledge what you shared. Or he may have been being a jerk. But from here it seems possible you were spiralling into a fear/fight/flight/fawn response.
He would not hurt me physically, no, it's just more of my reputation in the Deaf community, which is very small as is, and people are quick to judge, and things has a way of getting back to you badly even if you didn't do anything wrong. It's hard to explain. As for suing, my thought process was that, "well, DD was sick overnight in the UC so therefore he should have known better and not gotten together with me".
I'm not Deaf, so can't really speak to this, but I think your community has a problem if someone having been told they have food poisoning who then goes out with someone who continues hanging out with them for hours and says "don't worry about it" ends up with a trashed reputation. I think this fear of yours, that you will lose your Deaf community in some way, is a theme throughout your posts.
I would ask you how many people in your community have been excommunicated over the years? Does this 'loss of reputation' just mean people talk about them for a while or is this a real social risk? And if so, what do people who have been excommunicated do for friends and social groups after? It might be worth reaching out to them so that you have feet in two worlds, so to speak.
That would be out of character for me because I'm always responsive. I need a script that would make it clear to deflect all the blame off me.
No you don't need to have a script for this situation. There is no judge and jury of communication that you have to convince. If someone is blaming you for something or being dramatic over very normal things, you can just disengage. Your adrenal system won't like that - your adrenal system wants you to fight or keep engaged so you can see the tiger in the grass, but your adrenal system is designed to keep you alive, not to keep your social supports in place or help you enjoy your day.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:20 AM on April 6 [13 favorites]
You had some food poisoning. You had no reason to think you had anything at all contagious. Someone has made you feel terrible. This person was a bad friend to you and you may want to consider some anger towards them and pushing back, because their behavior sounds like bullying. People get stressed, they take it out on other people, and it’s not really okay just because it’s understandable.
You asked for a script. if I was ill and contagious, I would have responded appropriately, of course. Anger and finger-pointing are out of line here. Good luck with liver enzymes and treatment. You deserve comfort and support. People should be concerned that they are protecting your health and, literally, your life.
posted by theora55 at 12:36 PM on April 6
You asked for a script. if I was ill and contagious, I would have responded appropriately, of course. Anger and finger-pointing are out of line here. Good luck with liver enzymes and treatment. You deserve comfort and support. People should be concerned that they are protecting your health and, literally, your life.
posted by theora55 at 12:36 PM on April 6
Was there something about the way he mentioned these things that was especially bad? Him commenting on your brain fog after you've told him it's going on isn't a personal attack, in my book; a bit clumsy, because it's likely to make you feel bad or self-conscious, but well within the range of normal friendly clumsiness. Trying to do a specific check in when he realized he was uncomfortable with feeling your breath on his face ("you're sure you're not sick? ..... yeah, ok, sorry") you specifically call valid and fine, but if he's feeling self conscious and anxious it's pretty natural for him to follow up with an explanation for why he would even ask ("I'm just extra nervous because of timing and my classes...") and sometimes those things get away from us.
He sounds pretty self-focused and not like he's doing a good job of giving you what YOU need, which is reassurance and comfort and sympathy here. But he's not doing villain shit, he's just stuck in his own head. Did he offer you any sympathy and understanding, or seem to really get the weight of the things you were telling him? I'm guessing not and that that is deeper in your irritation about him than you're maybe aware of.
posted by Lady Li at 9:38 AM on April 7
He sounds pretty self-focused and not like he's doing a good job of giving you what YOU need, which is reassurance and comfort and sympathy here. But he's not doing villain shit, he's just stuck in his own head. Did he offer you any sympathy and understanding, or seem to really get the weight of the things you were telling him? I'm guessing not and that that is deeper in your irritation about him than you're maybe aware of.
posted by Lady Li at 9:38 AM on April 7
Response by poster: I know this is late, but thanks for all the input. Different perspectives here.
I am in-between therapists again currently due to Kaiser denying my request to continue with my current therapist. Sigh. I might try using EAP as a stopgap so I can have access to therapy again.
One thing: I used the word "triggered" because that's what seemed like the right vocabulary/term and that's what everyone is using, but didn't realize it might have been the wrong word. What would a better word be?
Thanks everyone.
posted by dubious_dude at 8:22 AM on April 8 [2 favorites]
I am in-between therapists again currently due to Kaiser denying my request to continue with my current therapist. Sigh. I might try using EAP as a stopgap so I can have access to therapy again.
One thing: I used the word "triggered" because that's what seemed like the right vocabulary/term and that's what everyone is using, but didn't realize it might have been the wrong word. What would a better word be?
Thanks everyone.
posted by dubious_dude at 8:22 AM on April 8 [2 favorites]
« Older How can I make YOTO playlists for my out-of-state... | Where can I buy eclipse glasses in NYC? Newer »
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by tristeza at 4:17 PM on April 5 [8 favorites]