Dividing household labor
January 11, 2024 6:30 AM Subscribe
How do you divide emergency household labor when one person has a more flexible job, and the other person has a more rigid schedule?
Partner A works 5 days, and in office "mandatory" 3 days a week. (exceptions for sickness, snow, etc. but highly encouraged to be in 3 days a week)
Partner B works 4 10hr days in a job where in-person is actually mandatory to complete work.
Their dog recently was paralyzed, and all of the daytime drs appointments, rehab, extra walks, and training has fallen onto Partner A. Partner A has had to miss working in person (sacrificing some career credibility).
Partner A feels it is demoralizing and unfair to do most of the rehab and additional work, sacrificing career appearance and productivity when "they didn't agree to this". Partner A wants to go into the office (for some reason).
Partner B agrees it's unfair, but isn't sure what they can do to help. It's not like they can be home during the day. They offer to do chores in the evening, but as Partner A is also free during the evening, the expectation is that Partner A also contributes. But also, before the paralysis, the evening is when Partner B used to unwind from work, watch an hour of TV before rinse & repeating for the next day.
This dog thing is temporary, but they are planning to have kids. Is this just Partner A's life forever anytime daytime help is needed, as the one with the more flexible work?
Reaching out here - would love to hear anecdotes, suggestions, or anything. For instance, what do you with dual jobs and kids do when a kid needs to be picked up from school / is sick. Is it always the partner with sick days / with any flexibility that picks up the burden?
Partner A works 5 days, and in office "mandatory" 3 days a week. (exceptions for sickness, snow, etc. but highly encouraged to be in 3 days a week)
Partner B works 4 10hr days in a job where in-person is actually mandatory to complete work.
Their dog recently was paralyzed, and all of the daytime drs appointments, rehab, extra walks, and training has fallen onto Partner A. Partner A has had to miss working in person (sacrificing some career credibility).
Partner A feels it is demoralizing and unfair to do most of the rehab and additional work, sacrificing career appearance and productivity when "they didn't agree to this". Partner A wants to go into the office (for some reason).
Partner B agrees it's unfair, but isn't sure what they can do to help. It's not like they can be home during the day. They offer to do chores in the evening, but as Partner A is also free during the evening, the expectation is that Partner A also contributes. But also, before the paralysis, the evening is when Partner B used to unwind from work, watch an hour of TV before rinse & repeating for the next day.
This dog thing is temporary, but they are planning to have kids. Is this just Partner A's life forever anytime daytime help is needed, as the one with the more flexible work?
Reaching out here - would love to hear anecdotes, suggestions, or anything. For instance, what do you with dual jobs and kids do when a kid needs to be picked up from school / is sick. Is it always the partner with sick days / with any flexibility that picks up the burden?
The first thing I'd say is that jobs are not forever. Another job might change who has what kind of flexibility, and maybe it's even worth looking for that. I'm grateful that my workplace has a culture that supports people in flexibility for appointments and all the random stuff of life.
The other thing is like BibiRose says, sometimes the answer is paying someone to do that. Sometimes that means one partner pays more into the budget to make up for the other's work, and sometimes it means paying a dog sitter.
As for the fairness of evening chores, both partners have to realize that unless a task requires both of you, when you do the work of maintaining the household is up to you. Are you each putting in effort relative to your capacity?
I'll also note that partner b works four 10s, that seems to imply they have three days where they aren't working. If they treat all that time as recovery and leisure, that's a little unfair to me. B has a whole extra day. It doesn't have to be a whole day dedicated to household work, but still.
posted by advicepig at 6:56 AM on January 11 [7 favorites]
The other thing is like BibiRose says, sometimes the answer is paying someone to do that. Sometimes that means one partner pays more into the budget to make up for the other's work, and sometimes it means paying a dog sitter.
As for the fairness of evening chores, both partners have to realize that unless a task requires both of you, when you do the work of maintaining the household is up to you. Are you each putting in effort relative to your capacity?
I'll also note that partner b works four 10s, that seems to imply they have three days where they aren't working. If they treat all that time as recovery and leisure, that's a little unfair to me. B has a whole extra day. It doesn't have to be a whole day dedicated to household work, but still.
posted by advicepig at 6:56 AM on January 11 [7 favorites]
My wife and I have a similar structure, and two kids. One is 11 months, the other is 4. I'm in the office 5 days a week / 40 hrs and she works 3 days a week as a therapist and her clients are spread throughout the day.
She does the majority of the childcare appointments / scheduling, since her client hours are variable, it makes sense for her to find the time to slot in dr appointments and things into her week. I take the older kid (and soon both kids once the little guy starts) to daycare every day and do pickup every day. I also leverage my commuting hours to grab any food / quick errands on my way home. My office job also gives me space to attend to computer related errands throughout the week since it is not super demanding.
A thing that we've been doing that has been helpful for the sharing of the more nuanced labor is to do a detailed check-in every Sunday evening. We do the following things every time:
1. Reconcile our calendars, make sure we're familiar with all of the plans for the week and try to make room for each other to be able to do social things.
2. Make sure we're in sync for childcare needs, mostly as it relates to picking up our oldest from daycare. It is usually me but sometimes we'll swap as our week takes shape.
3. Plan meals / groceries for the week.
4. Take a quick look at our recent spending, talk about any bigger upcoming expenses.
5. Create an open space to talk about dynamics in our relationship, how we're getting along, open the floor to any gripes to be aired without judgement.
6. Talk about our personal goals / habits and find ways we can support each other, an example being how we both want to be on our phones less, how we've been doing with that and how we can help nicely remind each other of those goals.
7. Talk about our current parenting strategies, making sure we're on the same page and being consistent.
8. Look at our "Kanban board" which is a way we check in on longer term household projects.
This might sound like a ton of stuff but it takes about 20 minutes and we love doing it. We'll also leave space to do something together after we're done, usually a walk or watching a show together. It eliminates so much stress from not being in sync during the week. We both start the week feeling very prepared and organized. Having the open space for gripes has been awesome, we're able to freely talk about the little things we do that bug each other in a kind way. This is probably more than you need but the idea of some kind of regular check-in / planning session has been huge for juggling all of the weekly needs of our household. I also recognize that this is our day to day and not an emergency situation, but maybe there are some things in here that may feel helpful. Good luck!
posted by sewellcm at 6:58 AM on January 11 [39 favorites]
She does the majority of the childcare appointments / scheduling, since her client hours are variable, it makes sense for her to find the time to slot in dr appointments and things into her week. I take the older kid (and soon both kids once the little guy starts) to daycare every day and do pickup every day. I also leverage my commuting hours to grab any food / quick errands on my way home. My office job also gives me space to attend to computer related errands throughout the week since it is not super demanding.
A thing that we've been doing that has been helpful for the sharing of the more nuanced labor is to do a detailed check-in every Sunday evening. We do the following things every time:
1. Reconcile our calendars, make sure we're familiar with all of the plans for the week and try to make room for each other to be able to do social things.
2. Make sure we're in sync for childcare needs, mostly as it relates to picking up our oldest from daycare. It is usually me but sometimes we'll swap as our week takes shape.
3. Plan meals / groceries for the week.
4. Take a quick look at our recent spending, talk about any bigger upcoming expenses.
5. Create an open space to talk about dynamics in our relationship, how we're getting along, open the floor to any gripes to be aired without judgement.
6. Talk about our personal goals / habits and find ways we can support each other, an example being how we both want to be on our phones less, how we've been doing with that and how we can help nicely remind each other of those goals.
7. Talk about our current parenting strategies, making sure we're on the same page and being consistent.
8. Look at our "Kanban board" which is a way we check in on longer term household projects.
This might sound like a ton of stuff but it takes about 20 minutes and we love doing it. We'll also leave space to do something together after we're done, usually a walk or watching a show together. It eliminates so much stress from not being in sync during the week. We both start the week feeling very prepared and organized. Having the open space for gripes has been awesome, we're able to freely talk about the little things we do that bug each other in a kind way. This is probably more than you need but the idea of some kind of regular check-in / planning session has been huge for juggling all of the weekly needs of our household. I also recognize that this is our day to day and not an emergency situation, but maybe there are some things in here that may feel helpful. Good luck!
posted by sewellcm at 6:58 AM on January 11 [39 favorites]
Doesn't 4 tens mean partner B has a whole day off where they could be scheduling appointments and not even interfere with WFH? Is partner B actively looking for ways to help carry the load here, and what are their suggestions? You can't expect to keep your same stress level and leisure time when there's a crisis at home, you have to be stepping up to make some sacrifices in times like these.
posted by Lady Li at 7:01 AM on January 11 [46 favorites]
posted by Lady Li at 7:01 AM on January 11 [46 favorites]
They offer to do chores in the evening, but as Partner A is also free during the evening, the expectation is that Partner A also contributes.
I guess I disagree here - like you, I don't have kids but I have cats that sometimes need attention during working hours. I think it's best to look at household labor holistically - if someone does more of one type of labor, they get to do less of another category. It sounds like Partner A here is doing a lot of household labor on behalf of your pet during the day, whereas Partner B isn't doing any household labor in that time - so they should be doing more than their usual share in the evening. That this is their time to unwind is not relevant - I mean, when does Partner A get to unwind?
Partner B should also respect Partner A's desire to go into the office three days a week - having some socialization via work is something most people want, as we learned when many people soured on 100% WFH arrangements.
People I know with two careers who have kids all have some form of help -whether daycare or a grandparent. If Partner A is really struggling with the pet care, could you hire a pet sitter - some of the more professional sitters can handle providing basic medical care (obviously costs more than a normal visit, but maybe worth it for you).
posted by coffeecat at 7:03 AM on January 11 [15 favorites]
I guess I disagree here - like you, I don't have kids but I have cats that sometimes need attention during working hours. I think it's best to look at household labor holistically - if someone does more of one type of labor, they get to do less of another category. It sounds like Partner A here is doing a lot of household labor on behalf of your pet during the day, whereas Partner B isn't doing any household labor in that time - so they should be doing more than their usual share in the evening. That this is their time to unwind is not relevant - I mean, when does Partner A get to unwind?
Partner B should also respect Partner A's desire to go into the office three days a week - having some socialization via work is something most people want, as we learned when many people soured on 100% WFH arrangements.
People I know with two careers who have kids all have some form of help -whether daycare or a grandparent. If Partner A is really struggling with the pet care, could you hire a pet sitter - some of the more professional sitters can handle providing basic medical care (obviously costs more than a normal visit, but maybe worth it for you).
posted by coffeecat at 7:03 AM on January 11 [15 favorites]
Is Partner B like an hourly employee or shift worker or something less flexible that a salaried office job? Because the simple answer is that Partner B takes time off work when needed, just like Partner A is doing.
One thing I learned when I had the more flexible job, I couldn't schedule appointments then get mad that my partner couldn't go. If I wanted him to take the dog to the vet, I had to give him the information and let him schedule it. Same now with child appointments. It's a really big change in my mindset that helped us a ton.
posted by muddgirl at 7:04 AM on January 11 [4 favorites]
One thing I learned when I had the more flexible job, I couldn't schedule appointments then get mad that my partner couldn't go. If I wanted him to take the dog to the vet, I had to give him the information and let him schedule it. Same now with child appointments. It's a really big change in my mindset that helped us a ton.
posted by muddgirl at 7:04 AM on January 11 [4 favorites]
It seems like Person B has an extra day off (works 4 days), so shouldn’t Person B do all the extra appointments on that day? It’s a little baffling why Person A has to try to fit this into the daytime job as well.
Person A can do the extra walks on the five days. Seems to balance out this way.
I would say also that working 5 days, though some of it from home, doesn’t really count as ‘flexible’. Person A is still working a full-time job.
Both should contribute equally to the upkeep of the house in the evenings.
posted by moiraine at 7:14 AM on January 11 [6 favorites]
Person A can do the extra walks on the five days. Seems to balance out this way.
I would say also that working 5 days, though some of it from home, doesn’t really count as ‘flexible’. Person A is still working a full-time job.
Both should contribute equally to the upkeep of the house in the evenings.
posted by moiraine at 7:14 AM on January 11 [6 favorites]
Between the scare quotes around "mandatory" and the "for some reason" after mentioning that Partner A wants to go into work, there seems to be a real lack of respect for Partner A's career, both in terms of company expectations and the partner's desires. (I work hybrid and understand the desire to go into the office sometimes; it's not a completely insane thing to want.)
Otherwise, I agree with advicepig and Lady Li that there are opportunities to take on some of the burden due to the 4 10s schedule of Partner B, and would add that both partners deserve decompression time regardless of their work schedule or location.
I take on nearly all of the pet veterinary care in my household (and we have 5 pets, some with medical needs) because although my partner works fully remote and I work hybrid, he has the kind of job that requires being on calls with clients a lot, whereas mine is more easily time-shifted. And once one person starts taking it on, it's hard for another person to pick up where the other left off, unless you're really careful about knowledge transfer. But even given that it is technically easier and more logical for me to handle these things, I do get concerned about whether it's impacting my career to constantly be telling my boss "away from desk for a couple hours, gotta take Pet to the vet" or working from home in-office days because that's when I could get an appointment. I think that concern is reasonable, and if I didn't have as supportive a workplace and secure a position as I believe I have, things might be different.
But we do try to even it out. My partner does the midday and dinner time dog walks because he is already home, fully handles the cat litter boxes, and we both manage things like feeding them (including keeping food in stock via a shared Chewy account) and regular laundering of dog beds and other pet materials. There was a period of time that the midday dog walk was difficult for both of us, and for those months we hired a dog walker.
posted by misskaz at 7:16 AM on January 11 [7 favorites]
Otherwise, I agree with advicepig and Lady Li that there are opportunities to take on some of the burden due to the 4 10s schedule of Partner B, and would add that both partners deserve decompression time regardless of their work schedule or location.
I take on nearly all of the pet veterinary care in my household (and we have 5 pets, some with medical needs) because although my partner works fully remote and I work hybrid, he has the kind of job that requires being on calls with clients a lot, whereas mine is more easily time-shifted. And once one person starts taking it on, it's hard for another person to pick up where the other left off, unless you're really careful about knowledge transfer. But even given that it is technically easier and more logical for me to handle these things, I do get concerned about whether it's impacting my career to constantly be telling my boss "away from desk for a couple hours, gotta take Pet to the vet" or working from home in-office days because that's when I could get an appointment. I think that concern is reasonable, and if I didn't have as supportive a workplace and secure a position as I believe I have, things might be different.
But we do try to even it out. My partner does the midday and dinner time dog walks because he is already home, fully handles the cat litter boxes, and we both manage things like feeding them (including keeping food in stock via a shared Chewy account) and regular laundering of dog beds and other pet materials. There was a period of time that the midday dog walk was difficult for both of us, and for those months we hired a dog walker.
posted by misskaz at 7:16 AM on January 11 [7 favorites]
Already great advice here, but I'll add in one thing that my partner and I have found helpful. Instead of the person with the less flexible job being entirely off the hook, we set up a ratio that seems reasonable to us at the moment. For us, Partner A covers three kid sick days, and then Partner B covers one. I expect this ratio to be adjusted now and again as our jobs change.
posted by pril at 7:26 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]
posted by pril at 7:26 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]
For the immediate issue, I would look at it one or both of two ways:
1) Partner A is taking on extra household stuff during their working days; B should take on extra household stuff outside of working hours to balance. So yes, right now, B should probably be giving A a bit of a break from household stuff in the evenings by taking on a bit more. Things will suck for them both right now during this animal health crisis, that's unfortunate, but it's how having pets works. Alternatively, B could work out some way to take some of that workday load off - whether that's taking time off for the vet appointments, or doing all the pet stuff on the two days a week they can be remote.
2) Forget who does what - focus on the down time. Whatever the work responsibilities and the home responsibilities, at the end of the day you want people to have roughly equal amounts of time that is "theirs" for relaxation and non-responsibility stuff. So look at how that is shaking out, and figure out whatever you need to redistribute to make that happen.
But there's also C: Don't make a big issue out of redistributing anything, just accept that this is a short-term pain point and will fix itself. This only works if there is enough built up history and trust that B has been the one to sacrific in the past, or will definitely gladly do so in the future. If the long term give and take is such that it all evens out over the course of a lifetime together, maybe that's good enough. (Or maybe it's not. Only A, who's taking the brunt of it right now, can say.)
This is definitely a thing to figure out philosophically before kids enter the picture though. Because yes, traditionally, the one with the flexible career takes the hit when kids come along and ends up "mommy-tracked" into permanent career setbacks, whatever the actual genders involved. If that's something A and B want to commit to avoiding, they need to do active, intense work to avoid it.
posted by Stacey at 7:26 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]
1) Partner A is taking on extra household stuff during their working days; B should take on extra household stuff outside of working hours to balance. So yes, right now, B should probably be giving A a bit of a break from household stuff in the evenings by taking on a bit more. Things will suck for them both right now during this animal health crisis, that's unfortunate, but it's how having pets works. Alternatively, B could work out some way to take some of that workday load off - whether that's taking time off for the vet appointments, or doing all the pet stuff on the two days a week they can be remote.
2) Forget who does what - focus on the down time. Whatever the work responsibilities and the home responsibilities, at the end of the day you want people to have roughly equal amounts of time that is "theirs" for relaxation and non-responsibility stuff. So look at how that is shaking out, and figure out whatever you need to redistribute to make that happen.
But there's also C: Don't make a big issue out of redistributing anything, just accept that this is a short-term pain point and will fix itself. This only works if there is enough built up history and trust that B has been the one to sacrific in the past, or will definitely gladly do so in the future. If the long term give and take is such that it all evens out over the course of a lifetime together, maybe that's good enough. (Or maybe it's not. Only A, who's taking the brunt of it right now, can say.)
This is definitely a thing to figure out philosophically before kids enter the picture though. Because yes, traditionally, the one with the flexible career takes the hit when kids come along and ends up "mommy-tracked" into permanent career setbacks, whatever the actual genders involved. If that's something A and B want to commit to avoiding, they need to do active, intense work to avoid it.
posted by Stacey at 7:26 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]
“They offer to do chores in the evening, but as Partner A is also free during the evening, the expectation is that Partner A also contributes.“
Huh? Partner B doesn’t seem to totally get how division of labor works.
posted by cakelite at 7:30 AM on January 11 [37 favorites]
Huh? Partner B doesn’t seem to totally get how division of labor works.
posted by cakelite at 7:30 AM on January 11 [37 favorites]
If working from home extra days is impacting A’s career stability, then I think it would be fair to consider their in-person days to be as non-negotiable as B’s in-person days. Which is to say that if an appointment needs to happen on an in-person day, then there should be an even split over who takes time off to do it.
I also disagree that if both partners are home in the evening, then both should be doing chores at that time. If A is doing extra household labor during the day plus normal chores in the evening, that is an unequally balanced load. In general, I think it is most fair to think about household labor in terms of hours spent (with maybe a little weighting if there are tasks that both people find particularly onerous), and it doesn’t really matter when those hours take place. There is flexibility there—I take on more hours per day than my partner because they commute two hours a day and I am 100% WFH—but it’s where we start.
I think you are correct, though, to be working on this issue before children enter the picture. If A takes the time and career hit to be the on-call parent during the work day, then B needs to step up household labor in their at-home time to compensate. Or, if B wants everyone doing equal chores at night, then B needs to take an equal share of sick time off work during the day for parenting.
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 7:33 AM on January 11 [7 favorites]
I also disagree that if both partners are home in the evening, then both should be doing chores at that time. If A is doing extra household labor during the day plus normal chores in the evening, that is an unequally balanced load. In general, I think it is most fair to think about household labor in terms of hours spent (with maybe a little weighting if there are tasks that both people find particularly onerous), and it doesn’t really matter when those hours take place. There is flexibility there—I take on more hours per day than my partner because they commute two hours a day and I am 100% WFH—but it’s where we start.
I think you are correct, though, to be working on this issue before children enter the picture. If A takes the time and career hit to be the on-call parent during the work day, then B needs to step up household labor in their at-home time to compensate. Or, if B wants everyone doing equal chores at night, then B needs to take an equal share of sick time off work during the day for parenting.
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 7:33 AM on January 11 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Huh? Partner B doesn’t seem to totally get how division of labor works.
I think it's exactly what Stacey said above about division of Leisure time. Partner B wants to leisure at the same time as partner A. From their perspective, they both just worked a full day - they should both get to leisure.
And with that measurement, Partner B is correct. Part of flexibility of the day is that if both people are working from 8-5pm or so, they are both working. The fact that Partner A can fit in extra dog walks / drs appointments by rearranging the schedule doesn't mean that they did more work than the shift work that Partner B does.
posted by bbqturtle at 7:34 AM on January 11
I think it's exactly what Stacey said above about division of Leisure time. Partner B wants to leisure at the same time as partner A. From their perspective, they both just worked a full day - they should both get to leisure.
And with that measurement, Partner B is correct. Part of flexibility of the day is that if both people are working from 8-5pm or so, they are both working. The fact that Partner A can fit in extra dog walks / drs appointments by rearranging the schedule doesn't mean that they did more work than the shift work that Partner B does.
posted by bbqturtle at 7:34 AM on January 11
And with that measurement, Partner B is correct. Part of flexibility of the day is that if both people are working from 8-5pm or so, they are both working. The fact that Partner A can fit in extra dog walks / drs appointments by rearranging the schedule doesn't mean that they did more work than the shift work that Partner B does.
But they don't have that flexibility to the extent presented here, do they? Because they are not in the office when they are supposed to be and their work relationships and career suffers as a result.
In the short-term, that kind of thing has limited effect. But over years (rearing children takes years) there are significant adverse effects around career progression, lifetime earnings and ability to save for retirement.
So sure - time spent working vs leisure over a week/month/year/lifetime is a measure. But it is not the only measure that is relevant.
posted by koahiatamadl at 7:45 AM on January 11 [14 favorites]
But they don't have that flexibility to the extent presented here, do they? Because they are not in the office when they are supposed to be and their work relationships and career suffers as a result.
In the short-term, that kind of thing has limited effect. But over years (rearing children takes years) there are significant adverse effects around career progression, lifetime earnings and ability to save for retirement.
So sure - time spent working vs leisure over a week/month/year/lifetime is a measure. But it is not the only measure that is relevant.
posted by koahiatamadl at 7:45 AM on January 11 [14 favorites]
A thing I think is being missed here is that Partner A is likely illicitly taking time off work for these daytime appointments - they work 5 days a week, they are expected to be at work during those hours, not taking their dog to appointments and doing dog rehab during these hours. This is one of the reasons they're probably taking a hit for not coming into the office for those three days - because it makes people more suspicious that that sort of thing is exactly what they're doing: prioritizing their personal life and personal priorities over their work.
If they *aren't* failing to do their work, then they're actually doing *two* jobs in the same amount of time - thus working *twice as hard* and requiring *twice as much leisure*.
Does Partner B have absolutely no personal days? Or PTO? Or sick time? What would happen if partner B said "I have an appointment at X time" and didn't specify it was a dog appointment? Would B get *fired* or would B just get looked at kind of negatively, and..kind of face the same consequences that A is currently facing?
posted by corb at 7:48 AM on January 11 [35 favorites]
If they *aren't* failing to do their work, then they're actually doing *two* jobs in the same amount of time - thus working *twice as hard* and requiring *twice as much leisure*.
Does Partner B have absolutely no personal days? Or PTO? Or sick time? What would happen if partner B said "I have an appointment at X time" and didn't specify it was a dog appointment? Would B get *fired* or would B just get looked at kind of negatively, and..kind of face the same consequences that A is currently facing?
posted by corb at 7:48 AM on January 11 [35 favorites]
The fact that Partner A can fit in extra dog walks / drs appointments by rearranging the schedule doesn't mean that they did more work than the shift work that Partner B does.
I think this is misguided.
If Partner A's workplace expects that Partner A is actively working during those daytime hours, Partner A's workplace expects a full-time work output from Partner A.
Just because Partner A is able to rearrange their work schedule on a temporary basis and fit some personal tasks in during the workday, does not mean this works as a long-term situation. The amount of job-work Partner A is able to fit in during the workday will suffer, and their work performance and career will suffer as a result.
OR, Partner A will push themselves to be incredibly efficient and get a full day's worth of job-work tasks done, while also taking care of household tasks during the same day. Again, while this may be possible on a short-term basis to deal with a crisis, it's incredibly exhausting and not sustainable.
I work a partially-remote full-time job, and sometimes I take time away from the keyboard in the middle of the day to run errands. It's nice to have that flexibility, but my work productivity definitely suffers on those days. It's not a big deal because I only do it once every two weeks or so. But if I was trying to run errands every single day during work, or even several times a week, my manager would definitely notice the drop in my productivity and we would be having a talk.
posted by mekily at 7:51 AM on January 11 [12 favorites]
I think this is misguided.
If Partner A's workplace expects that Partner A is actively working during those daytime hours, Partner A's workplace expects a full-time work output from Partner A.
Just because Partner A is able to rearrange their work schedule on a temporary basis and fit some personal tasks in during the workday, does not mean this works as a long-term situation. The amount of job-work Partner A is able to fit in during the workday will suffer, and their work performance and career will suffer as a result.
OR, Partner A will push themselves to be incredibly efficient and get a full day's worth of job-work tasks done, while also taking care of household tasks during the same day. Again, while this may be possible on a short-term basis to deal with a crisis, it's incredibly exhausting and not sustainable.
I work a partially-remote full-time job, and sometimes I take time away from the keyboard in the middle of the day to run errands. It's nice to have that flexibility, but my work productivity definitely suffers on those days. It's not a big deal because I only do it once every two weeks or so. But if I was trying to run errands every single day during work, or even several times a week, my manager would definitely notice the drop in my productivity and we would be having a talk.
posted by mekily at 7:51 AM on January 11 [12 favorites]
From their perspective, they both just worked a full day - they should both get to leisure.
But does Partner A actually get to have leisure or are they working later into the evening because there were work tasks that they weren't able to get done because they were doing pet care during work hours?
posted by coffeecat at 7:52 AM on January 11 [11 favorites]
But does Partner A actually get to have leisure or are they working later into the evening because there were work tasks that they weren't able to get done because they were doing pet care during work hours?
posted by coffeecat at 7:52 AM on January 11 [11 favorites]
How do you divide the labor fairly? Well, if both people are working 40 hours a week, you divide it roughly in half.
Why are Partner B's three days off apparently not part of this calculus? How can, by your account, all of the extra daytime work fall on Partner A when Partner B is home and not working THREE three days a week?
Why are you talking like the only possible time for B to pull their weight with chores is during the evening... but then saying that both people should contribute evenly in the evening?
Why are you asking if the only possible solution is to sacrifice Partner A's career?
This feels so gendered I find it upsetting.
Sure, Partner A has slightly more flexibility. But if you wanted to, you could treat Partner A's three mandatory office days just as seriously as Partner B's four mandatory on-site days. And then you'd divide the work much more evenly and find one of the many solutions people have suggested above.
posted by MangoNews at 8:16 AM on January 11 [25 favorites]
Why are Partner B's three days off apparently not part of this calculus? How can, by your account, all of the extra daytime work fall on Partner A when Partner B is home and not working THREE three days a week?
Why are you talking like the only possible time for B to pull their weight with chores is during the evening... but then saying that both people should contribute evenly in the evening?
Why are you asking if the only possible solution is to sacrifice Partner A's career?
This feels so gendered I find it upsetting.
Sure, Partner A has slightly more flexibility. But if you wanted to, you could treat Partner A's three mandatory office days just as seriously as Partner B's four mandatory on-site days. And then you'd divide the work much more evenly and find one of the many solutions people have suggested above.
posted by MangoNews at 8:16 AM on January 11 [25 favorites]
But to answer the question: I'm going to answer this from the position of experiencing this in the military situation: the military partner has a lot less flexibility, and the civilian partner has a lot more flexibility - especially during times of deployment. And what usually happened in my experience was that the civilian partners spent a lot more time picking up the kid from school and taking care of them when they were sick, but the military partners spent a lot of effort, energy, and money making up for that. To the extent there was discretionary money, it went to the civilian partners, and military partners would either do a lot of staying home with the kids when they could to give the civilian partners 'nights out', or would pay for babysitting while they were gone so that the same could be accomplished. Civilian partners also got a lot more of what I would call 'decisionmaking authority' - because they were the one doing most of the work around those items, they got to make decisions about what the children did, what schools and doctors they went to. In many cases they were able to do things like select the apartment without the approval of the military member; in one case I know of a military member who let the civilian partner actually buy a house he had never seen.
It sounds like partner B may have had the decisionmaking authority on the pet doctor and the pet medical plan in this case, whereas partner A is stuck with the actual carrying out of the plan, which may explain the "I didn't agree to that!" response.
I would suggest either granting partner A the decisionmaking authority on the pet response, or having partner B step up the privileges and leisure time that they grant to partner A - by paying for respite time for partner A during their days, or for special 'treats' for partner A, or by stepping up and doing more work during their days off.
posted by corb at 8:18 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]
It sounds like partner B may have had the decisionmaking authority on the pet doctor and the pet medical plan in this case, whereas partner A is stuck with the actual carrying out of the plan, which may explain the "I didn't agree to that!" response.
I would suggest either granting partner A the decisionmaking authority on the pet response, or having partner B step up the privileges and leisure time that they grant to partner A - by paying for respite time for partner A during their days, or for special 'treats' for partner A, or by stepping up and doing more work during their days off.
posted by corb at 8:18 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]
Before anything else, Partner B needs to really validate Partner A's contributions and sacrifices. Reading the description of this situation I get a whiff of defensiveness around Partner B's role and the stance that, well, them's the facts, what else can I do? What keeps these things from devolving into scorekeeping hell is a bilateral commitment to understanding the intangibles involved, not just what either party feels is most logical. 'I agree it's unfair' is a good start for Partner B, but keep going. Validation and appreciation go a long way.
And yes, Partner B should commit to doing all pet-related work on the fifth day and making Partner A's ability to get into the office on that day non-negotiable. If there are appointments that can be scheduled on the fifth day, they should take at least some of them, every other week.
(When kids come into the picture, Partner B is going to have to step up to leave work for appointments/sick kid pickup/etc. some of the time. It sucks to navigate these things at work but the happy and healthy partnerships I've seen share the load and don't assume that one person is just going to be the one to take the career hit.)
posted by wormtales at 8:18 AM on January 11 [6 favorites]
And yes, Partner B should commit to doing all pet-related work on the fifth day and making Partner A's ability to get into the office on that day non-negotiable. If there are appointments that can be scheduled on the fifth day, they should take at least some of them, every other week.
(When kids come into the picture, Partner B is going to have to step up to leave work for appointments/sick kid pickup/etc. some of the time. It sucks to navigate these things at work but the happy and healthy partnerships I've seen share the load and don't assume that one person is just going to be the one to take the career hit.)
posted by wormtales at 8:18 AM on January 11 [6 favorites]
Partner A either has less leisure time than previously, or they are working fewer hours than previously (and shortchanging their employer). This is true even if they are using lunch breaks for appointments. You are not doing the sums consistently.
Statistically speaking, in a heterosexual partnership it is always the female partner that is perceived to be more available and so therefore picks up the burden. Not that that's something to imitate, but nowadays its more subconscious than conscious and will colour many people's replies. If Partner A and Partner B are a heterosexual couple then it will likely colour your own views.
posted by plonkee at 8:20 AM on January 11 [11 favorites]
Statistically speaking, in a heterosexual partnership it is always the female partner that is perceived to be more available and so therefore picks up the burden. Not that that's something to imitate, but nowadays its more subconscious than conscious and will colour many people's replies. If Partner A and Partner B are a heterosexual couple then it will likely colour your own views.
posted by plonkee at 8:20 AM on January 11 [11 favorites]
I don't think Partner B is appreciating the extra mental load of Partner A juggling appointments, transit time, interruptions to work focus, etc. Look at it this way, if Partner A also worked 8-5 no exceptions all day, you would simply have to find time for dog care either early or late, or pay someone to do it. Partner A is subsidizing this by finding time during the day, at the cost of the extra mental load and the chunks of time they might have otherwise spent on other chores, getting ahead at work, or taking a little break.
I understand that 10 hour days are very tiring, which is why Partner B should be picking up a lot of slack on their day off - groceries, laundry, etc.
Bottom line, if Partner A has the ability and willingness to adopt most chores that have to be done during the day (and this includes kid stuff down the line), then Partner B has to take on more of the chores that can be done anytime, even if Partner A is at home.
posted by nakedmolerats at 8:35 AM on January 11 [13 favorites]
I understand that 10 hour days are very tiring, which is why Partner B should be picking up a lot of slack on their day off - groceries, laundry, etc.
Bottom line, if Partner A has the ability and willingness to adopt most chores that have to be done during the day (and this includes kid stuff down the line), then Partner B has to take on more of the chores that can be done anytime, even if Partner A is at home.
posted by nakedmolerats at 8:35 AM on January 11 [13 favorites]
A division of labor solution that has worked well for me is the idea of time banking leisure time such that both people get an equal number of leisure hours per week. I’ve seen this used a lot for situations with stay at home parents where one person may technically be “not working” but managing 90% of household tasks while the other person has to go to a formal job.
The goal of this approach is to try to balance work and chores such that everybody has an equal amount of free time to do what they want.
posted by forkisbetter at 9:06 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]
The goal of this approach is to try to balance work and chores such that everybody has an equal amount of free time to do what they want.
posted by forkisbetter at 9:06 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]
Partner A wants to go into the office (for some reason).
I spent 9 years being remote before switching teams to finally (finally) have a team and a manager I could see regularly in person. When did I switch? Feb 2020. Obviously, that didn't work out.
All that to say: Being remote sucks. Some people think they like it now, but that will change.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 9:13 AM on January 11 [4 favorites]
I spent 9 years being remote before switching teams to finally (finally) have a team and a manager I could see regularly in person. When did I switch? Feb 2020. Obviously, that didn't work out.
All that to say: Being remote sucks. Some people think they like it now, but that will change.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 9:13 AM on January 11 [4 favorites]
But also, before the paralysis, the evening is when Partner B used to unwind from work, watch an hour of TV before rinse & repeating for the next day.
Why is Partner A's evening unwinding, TV-watching, and relaxing not mentioned here?
Especially when, as accounted above, they are working double-time during their day?
posted by Dashy at 9:16 AM on January 11 [8 favorites]
Why is Partner A's evening unwinding, TV-watching, and relaxing not mentioned here?
Especially when, as accounted above, they are working double-time during their day?
posted by Dashy at 9:16 AM on January 11 [8 favorites]
Partner A is doing more work than Partner B in this specific area. Is Partner B taking something else off of Partner A's plate because of this?
My partner and I have used Fair Play by Eve Rodsky to get a solid look at how we were splitting things up and then using that to balance things better. We have a child and I think equitable division of labor is essential if a couple plans to have children.
posted by carrioncomfort at 9:17 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]
My partner and I have used Fair Play by Eve Rodsky to get a solid look at how we were splitting things up and then using that to balance things better. We have a child and I think equitable division of labor is essential if a couple plans to have children.
posted by carrioncomfort at 9:17 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]
In a marriage or live-in romantic partnership, LABOR hours and LEISURE hours should be equalized between both partners.
(1) Partner A's labor is being outrageously undercounted. Currently, during some hours of the work day, Partner B gets only one hour's worth of paid work done while, in the same duration, Partner A is doing one hour's worth of paid work AND one hour's worth of unpaid household labor. Stop using the euphemism of "rearranging work schedule" to cover up this fact and deny the true accounting of Partner A's actual labor contribution. Two hours' worth of labor should be counted as two hours of labor, period. Doing two jobs is twice as much work as doing one job, and you need to be honest about that.
(2) Partner A's career hours are being treated with serious disrespect. By pretending that only the time that physically passes on a clock is what counts (as in point (1) above), you are actually asserting that Partner A's career is less important and less worthy of respect than Partner B's. You're saying only Partner B's career hours are sacrosanct, only Partner B's career hours must be protected from distractions and outside noise. Partner A's career hours? Eh, who cares, those hours can be fudged, half-assed, and just muddled through in a distracted state, because Partner A's career performance doesn't matter as much as Partner B's. This is shockingly disrespectful to Partner A. Stop that immediately.
(3) Partner A's leisure hours are getting cut down dramatically, while Partner B's are being (at least) doubled. Partner B gets a full weekday of extra leisure time that Partner A does not. THIS IS MIND BLOWINGLY UNFAIR. Acting as if evening labor & leisure should be equalized between both partners while Partner B gets a whole extra totally protected day per week off, shows a chilling level of disrespect towards Partner A.
If Partner B doesn't change their attitude immediately upon having these things explained to them, Partner A should work on getting out of this exploitative "partnership". Life is too short to spend it saddled with jerks like Partner B.
posted by MiraK at 9:58 AM on January 11 [33 favorites]
(1) Partner A's labor is being outrageously undercounted. Currently, during some hours of the work day, Partner B gets only one hour's worth of paid work done while, in the same duration, Partner A is doing one hour's worth of paid work AND one hour's worth of unpaid household labor. Stop using the euphemism of "rearranging work schedule" to cover up this fact and deny the true accounting of Partner A's actual labor contribution. Two hours' worth of labor should be counted as two hours of labor, period. Doing two jobs is twice as much work as doing one job, and you need to be honest about that.
(2) Partner A's career hours are being treated with serious disrespect. By pretending that only the time that physically passes on a clock is what counts (as in point (1) above), you are actually asserting that Partner A's career is less important and less worthy of respect than Partner B's. You're saying only Partner B's career hours are sacrosanct, only Partner B's career hours must be protected from distractions and outside noise. Partner A's career hours? Eh, who cares, those hours can be fudged, half-assed, and just muddled through in a distracted state, because Partner A's career performance doesn't matter as much as Partner B's. This is shockingly disrespectful to Partner A. Stop that immediately.
(3) Partner A's leisure hours are getting cut down dramatically, while Partner B's are being (at least) doubled. Partner B gets a full weekday of extra leisure time that Partner A does not. THIS IS MIND BLOWINGLY UNFAIR. Acting as if evening labor & leisure should be equalized between both partners while Partner B gets a whole extra totally protected day per week off, shows a chilling level of disrespect towards Partner A.
If Partner B doesn't change their attitude immediately upon having these things explained to them, Partner A should work on getting out of this exploitative "partnership". Life is too short to spend it saddled with jerks like Partner B.
posted by MiraK at 9:58 AM on January 11 [33 favorites]
With all the discussion about someone working a job requiring four/tens having three 'free' days, nobody has mentioned that working ten-hour days is really hard on your body and mind. Those last two hours really grind you down by the third day. If you're working in something like nursing or a medical field, manufacturing, or Amazon/UPS delivery driver you need most of that third day to physically and mentally recover. It's not some sort of freebie.
You need to be communicating better with this. If need be, see a counselor or mediator. Beyond that, throwing money at it is one way to get some breathing room, but again, the financial contribution needs to be equitable or at least equivalent.
If you can't work out caring for a dog without discord, you certainly don't need to bring kids into the mix anytime soon, if ever. 'Easy' kids are hard. Special needs kids can tear even a good marriage apart like tissue paper.
posted by BlueHorse at 10:17 AM on January 11 [8 favorites]
You need to be communicating better with this. If need be, see a counselor or mediator. Beyond that, throwing money at it is one way to get some breathing room, but again, the financial contribution needs to be equitable or at least equivalent.
If you can't work out caring for a dog without discord, you certainly don't need to bring kids into the mix anytime soon, if ever. 'Easy' kids are hard. Special needs kids can tear even a good marriage apart like tissue paper.
posted by BlueHorse at 10:17 AM on January 11 [8 favorites]
CTRL+F: empathy = "Not found"
Agreed with comments upthread that this requires some frank, open discussion using planning tools to make sure everyone involved has responsibilities and leisure time.
This dog thing is temporary, but they are planning to have kids. Is this just Partner A's life forever anytime daytime help is needed, as the one with the more flexible work?
Not necessarily, but it's a potential problem that should be articulated aloud and discussed. In my experience, yes, the person with more flexible work often does wind up picking up more of the load. If that's something that partners both want not to happen, that would be good to know, and also good to plan for.
It's also my experience that people who work 4 10s tend to lose as much as half of their "extra day" to recovery. Especially if the job is high stress or physically demanding. That's something worth discussing, and not defensively, if this is a point of past contention -- i.e. discussing relative levels of stress in their respective jobs.
[ETA: what BlueHorse said about long days grinding the body down.]
posted by cupcakeninja at 10:18 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]
Agreed with comments upthread that this requires some frank, open discussion using planning tools to make sure everyone involved has responsibilities and leisure time.
This dog thing is temporary, but they are planning to have kids. Is this just Partner A's life forever anytime daytime help is needed, as the one with the more flexible work?
Not necessarily, but it's a potential problem that should be articulated aloud and discussed. In my experience, yes, the person with more flexible work often does wind up picking up more of the load. If that's something that partners both want not to happen, that would be good to know, and also good to plan for.
It's also my experience that people who work 4 10s tend to lose as much as half of their "extra day" to recovery. Especially if the job is high stress or physically demanding. That's something worth discussing, and not defensively, if this is a point of past contention -- i.e. discussing relative levels of stress in their respective jobs.
[ETA: what BlueHorse said about long days grinding the body down.]
posted by cupcakeninja at 10:18 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]
> working ten-hour days is really hard on your body and mind.
> people who work 4 10s tend to lose as much as half of their "extra day" to recovery.
From what OP describes of their current situation, Partner B works four 10 hour days per week and Partner A works five ten hour days per week.
posted by MiraK at 10:30 AM on January 11 [5 favorites]
> people who work 4 10s tend to lose as much as half of their "extra day" to recovery.
From what OP describes of their current situation, Partner B works four 10 hour days per week and Partner A works five ten hour days per week.
posted by MiraK at 10:30 AM on January 11 [5 favorites]
Yeah, it's important to note that we should be contributing to the tasks of maintaining the household relative to our capacity to do so. Recovering from a stressful 10 hour shifts can play into that, but so can health issues, additional responsibilities to our families, and countless other things.
My partner B is a doctor, and she has days when that job is so much that she can't really accomplish home tasks on some days, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't recognize and appreciate the work I do in addition to my full time job during the day using all this great flexibility I have. She definitely tries to schedule vet visits on her administrative days when she has flexibility because I have to be the one that picks up all the random last minute flexibility. (I'm literally in charge of the plumbers that have been here all day right now.)
Now in all the physician households we hang out with, there are various gender things that often come into this, and a whole bunch of status things too. I have a pretty respectable job, but it's always assumed that it's the one that bends when we need to make a change, since hers brings in more money and is seen as more important to the world. Is that fair? Sometimes. But when it's not, I'm glad we can talk about it and usually find a compromise.
posted by advicepig at 10:32 AM on January 11 [4 favorites]
My partner B is a doctor, and she has days when that job is so much that she can't really accomplish home tasks on some days, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't recognize and appreciate the work I do in addition to my full time job during the day using all this great flexibility I have. She definitely tries to schedule vet visits on her administrative days when she has flexibility because I have to be the one that picks up all the random last minute flexibility. (I'm literally in charge of the plumbers that have been here all day right now.)
Now in all the physician households we hang out with, there are various gender things that often come into this, and a whole bunch of status things too. I have a pretty respectable job, but it's always assumed that it's the one that bends when we need to make a change, since hers brings in more money and is seen as more important to the world. Is that fair? Sometimes. But when it's not, I'm glad we can talk about it and usually find a compromise.
posted by advicepig at 10:32 AM on January 11 [4 favorites]
there is no equivalent set of household “chores” partner B could volunteer for that could offset the stress of sole responsibility for keeping a suffering living creature alive and attending to its medical needs every day. the other partner can’t make things fair by doing more fucking laundry or whatever. this isn’t like other household work where it’s all just boring interchangeable labor rearranging inanimate objects for your own mutual benefit and lifestyle upkeep.
if partner B honestly has no sick time or personal days provided by their job, none at all, they will have to schedule as many of the vet appointments as possible on their one weekday off and do all the walks etc on the other two days. they will also need to find a better job before taking on responsibility for any more living creatures, obviously. sooner than that if possible.
this is so outrageous I have to ask if it’s really “their” dog or if it was partner a’s dog first, such that b is not especially emotionally involved in how it’s doing.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:39 AM on January 11 [7 favorites]
if partner B honestly has no sick time or personal days provided by their job, none at all, they will have to schedule as many of the vet appointments as possible on their one weekday off and do all the walks etc on the other two days. they will also need to find a better job before taking on responsibility for any more living creatures, obviously. sooner than that if possible.
this is so outrageous I have to ask if it’s really “their” dog or if it was partner a’s dog first, such that b is not especially emotionally involved in how it’s doing.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:39 AM on January 11 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Few quick responses:
1. Partner A's daily job is very easy. Of their 8 hour day, when they work from home they typically only work 4-5 hours. (A full 8 but relaxed with a long lunch when in person). They have extremely relaxed Fridays, where they never work past noon if at all. But - that easy job still has stressful days and responsibilities - and the dog was a new layer onto it, moving the 4 hour day to closer to a 6 hour day.
2. Partner B works four 10 hour days, and absolutely does need the day off to recover. While they aren't exactly a nurse, (more management) their job is high in mental effort and stress. They still contribute to daily chores on that day, but mostly relax.
Doing the math of who is working harder, or working more hours isn't helpful.
The question is: When it comes to the feeling of doing the emergency labor, emergency childcare, emergency drs visits, mostly falling on the flexible-hours partner, what anecdotes do you have from your life, and how did your partnership solve for this?
ps. I've intentionally left this question gender neutral. Thank you.
posted by bbqturtle at 10:41 AM on January 11
1. Partner A's daily job is very easy. Of their 8 hour day, when they work from home they typically only work 4-5 hours. (A full 8 but relaxed with a long lunch when in person). They have extremely relaxed Fridays, where they never work past noon if at all. But - that easy job still has stressful days and responsibilities - and the dog was a new layer onto it, moving the 4 hour day to closer to a 6 hour day.
2. Partner B works four 10 hour days, and absolutely does need the day off to recover. While they aren't exactly a nurse, (more management) their job is high in mental effort and stress. They still contribute to daily chores on that day, but mostly relax.
Doing the math of who is working harder, or working more hours isn't helpful.
The question is: When it comes to the feeling of doing the emergency labor, emergency childcare, emergency drs visits, mostly falling on the flexible-hours partner, what anecdotes do you have from your life, and how did your partnership solve for this?
ps. I've intentionally left this question gender neutral. Thank you.
posted by bbqturtle at 10:41 AM on January 11
I'm confused by your response, which details why one partner works much longer and harder than the other: then you state that doing the math of who works harder and longer, isn't helpful. Which is it?
posted by Dashy at 10:44 AM on January 11 [9 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 10:44 AM on January 11 [9 favorites]
Response by poster: The details are to contra- the responses suggesting that this is an incredibly undue burden on Partner A. It isn't incredibly unfair, just a large shift from status quo so "feels" more unfair to Partner A. Partners A and B can do the math themselves. What would be helpful is personal anecdotes and solutions you've found in your relationships about this.
posted by bbqturtle at 10:50 AM on January 11
posted by bbqturtle at 10:50 AM on January 11
It sounds as if Person B needs to look for another, more “flexible”, job.
Person B cannot claim moral superiority that their job is more harder, if they have actively chosen this line of work. It’s unclear why Person B’s career which involves long hard hours takes precedence over Person A’s career, even if it does involve “easier” hours.
I see this all the time in banking, where I worked for a stint of time. One partner, who is usually a man, would work long inflexible hours and expect their partner, who is usually a woman, to pick up the extra household tasks because the woman’s work was “flexible” and “easier”. Fine—if this division of labor works for them. But in this case, it does not work for Person A and Person B.
posted by moiraine at 11:00 AM on January 11 [10 favorites]
Person B cannot claim moral superiority that their job is more harder, if they have actively chosen this line of work. It’s unclear why Person B’s career which involves long hard hours takes precedence over Person A’s career, even if it does involve “easier” hours.
I see this all the time in banking, where I worked for a stint of time. One partner, who is usually a man, would work long inflexible hours and expect their partner, who is usually a woman, to pick up the extra household tasks because the woman’s work was “flexible” and “easier”. Fine—if this division of labor works for them. But in this case, it does not work for Person A and Person B.
posted by moiraine at 11:00 AM on January 11 [10 favorites]
Best answer: I (female) work a job that is flexible, with some restrictions: during particular times of year/days of the week, I must be at work in person. Other times of year/days of the week, I work from home. My spouse (male) has a normal, in person, salaried, 40/hours a week ish job. I am, broadly, the default parent during my flexible times. This is compounded by gender, as well as the fact that child goes to daycare at my place of work.
This recently led to some very heated arguments during a stressful time of the year for me where I technically had no set schedule, but still needed to get a ton of work done by a set time, and childcare went *poof* (daycare closed for extended winter break, we had a backup, backup fell through). I ended up basically having to force my husband to take a day off, as well as take the kids for what ended up being equivalent to a full working day over two days over the weekend, so I could get my work done. Getting that felt like pulling teeth and it was not fun. I felt under appreciated and like my career was being devalued, as others discussed above. We have since Had Some Talks About Division of Labor to reset expectations.
Partner A cannot be the default (dog) parent all the time. Partner B needs to take some time off occasionally as time and finances allow. And, Partner B needs to be doing (dog) parent stuff on their extra day off. Both Partner A and Partner B should be contributing to normal household labor in the evenings and getting some down time in roughly equal amounts, as time allows. As others notes above, B has 10 hours of work, but A has 8 hours of work + dog labor.
posted by damayanti at 11:03 AM on January 11 [9 favorites]
This recently led to some very heated arguments during a stressful time of the year for me where I technically had no set schedule, but still needed to get a ton of work done by a set time, and childcare went *poof* (daycare closed for extended winter break, we had a backup, backup fell through). I ended up basically having to force my husband to take a day off, as well as take the kids for what ended up being equivalent to a full working day over two days over the weekend, so I could get my work done. Getting that felt like pulling teeth and it was not fun. I felt under appreciated and like my career was being devalued, as others discussed above. We have since Had Some Talks About Division of Labor to reset expectations.
Partner A cannot be the default (dog) parent all the time. Partner B needs to take some time off occasionally as time and finances allow. And, Partner B needs to be doing (dog) parent stuff on their extra day off. Both Partner A and Partner B should be contributing to normal household labor in the evenings and getting some down time in roughly equal amounts, as time allows. As others notes above, B has 10 hours of work, but A has 8 hours of work + dog labor.
posted by damayanti at 11:03 AM on January 11 [9 favorites]
> Doing the math of who is working harder, or working more hours isn't helpful.
It makes no sense to talk about division of labor without talking about this math. The math is actually NOT OPTIONAL in these conversations. The math is part of the reality, and that it would harm Partner B's case is no excuse for erasing it.
> It isn't incredibly unfair, just a large shift from status quo so "feels" more unfair to Partner A.
I hope you're not suggesting that there's no real unfairness, only Partner A's "feelings" which have no basis in reality? Pretty rich coming from someone who says the math isn't helpful.
All of what you're saying is incredibly dismissive towards, and devaluing of, Partner A. Even if both partners agree that Partner A's job is super easy and less taxing, the fact remains that Partner A is dissatisfied with their current arrangement. The fact still remains that Partner A's career is being impacted due to caregiving work that Partner B refuses to share. Partner A deserves a partner who will deal with these issues in a collaborative, not high handed and dismissive, way.
Nthing the suggestion for Partner B to get a different job which allows them to pull their weight at household labor - and they should not have children until they do find such a job.
posted by MiraK at 11:15 AM on January 11 [18 favorites]
It makes no sense to talk about division of labor without talking about this math. The math is actually NOT OPTIONAL in these conversations. The math is part of the reality, and that it would harm Partner B's case is no excuse for erasing it.
> It isn't incredibly unfair, just a large shift from status quo so "feels" more unfair to Partner A.
I hope you're not suggesting that there's no real unfairness, only Partner A's "feelings" which have no basis in reality? Pretty rich coming from someone who says the math isn't helpful.
All of what you're saying is incredibly dismissive towards, and devaluing of, Partner A. Even if both partners agree that Partner A's job is super easy and less taxing, the fact remains that Partner A is dissatisfied with their current arrangement. The fact still remains that Partner A's career is being impacted due to caregiving work that Partner B refuses to share. Partner A deserves a partner who will deal with these issues in a collaborative, not high handed and dismissive, way.
Nthing the suggestion for Partner B to get a different job which allows them to pull their weight at household labor - and they should not have children until they do find such a job.
posted by MiraK at 11:15 AM on January 11 [18 favorites]
Best answer: What helped in my relationship was partner B having significantly less “decompression” time. Nothing else made a dent. Partner B had to accept that the options had become “I need to be willing to suffer more now, accept that it won’t be forever, and that I will be more stressed out and less happy person then I want to be for this relationship to survive”. And they are, it’s incredibly obvious. But also so was I when I took care of all the stuff that could be done during the day because my job was more flexible. The mental load was what made it so hard, constantly splitting my focus made me a less happy more irritable angry person. My partner had to take on some of the stress.
posted by lepus at 11:19 AM on January 11 [13 favorites]
posted by lepus at 11:19 AM on January 11 [13 favorites]
Has Partner B really reckoned with the fact that there is now less leisure time overall and there are more household obligations? Having additional caregiving responsibilities isn't about just literally when those things happen but also an overall balance. I'm also sensing some general resentment of Partner A by Partner B. If Partner B has some jealousy about A's "easy" job, that's a really good thing to sort out now. B can't expect that they'll make decisions together to do things and then A will pick up the burden.
It also seems like one of the extra complications here is the fact that the dog might be B's dog more than A's dog. Is that another element of this? In that case, I can totally see why A is irritated at the extra responsibilities. Were decisions about taking care of the dog made together? In many cases, and in the past, this level of injury might have led to euthanasia. I'm a huge animal lover and I am not suggesting that this would have been the better course of action, but I am wondering if A and B were a team in making care decisions.
When I was married and had young kids and we got a puppy, even though I was the primary breadwinner and working more, I took on the nighttime puppy chores and extra puppy work (that puppy is now an elderly dog curled up under my feet). But, it was also a pretty good time to take on extra responsibilities because we had capacity within our household. Is there capacity within your household?
I think A and B need to understand that having kids is going to mean less time, a lot less time. Also, B wants that evening time to unwind and relax, but ... why do you all have a dog if taking care of the dog isn't part of what's relaxing? If this is B's beloved pet, well, then, walk the dog! That can be relaxing too, with the right framing. With kids, B can absolutely not say, "I'm home and need time to relax," but instead, "Now is the time I spend with my children" because otherwise B won't be spending any time with children. Like, you can't have kids and still expect to have relaxing time at home to watch TV after a busy day. If B's career is too stressful to take on more, then perhaps B is going to need to rethink career decisions before moving forward with kids.
Taking care of a paralyzed dog sounds like a lot of additional work. Another option is to throw some money at this problem. Can you hire one person four or five days a week to do one of the extra therapy walks? That person can come and do the walk even on days when A is working from home.
Are A and B generally working well as a team right now? Or are you circling warily around each other, with some resentment and irritation, and slinging mud and stewing resentment? B is in a high powered position at work. If B's job all of a sudden got extra workload and it all went onto one person, B would likely expect a lot of pushback and irritation if some of that wasn't shared. There seems to be a lack of trust and mutual respect here.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:21 AM on January 11 [8 favorites]
It also seems like one of the extra complications here is the fact that the dog might be B's dog more than A's dog. Is that another element of this? In that case, I can totally see why A is irritated at the extra responsibilities. Were decisions about taking care of the dog made together? In many cases, and in the past, this level of injury might have led to euthanasia. I'm a huge animal lover and I am not suggesting that this would have been the better course of action, but I am wondering if A and B were a team in making care decisions.
When I was married and had young kids and we got a puppy, even though I was the primary breadwinner and working more, I took on the nighttime puppy chores and extra puppy work (that puppy is now an elderly dog curled up under my feet). But, it was also a pretty good time to take on extra responsibilities because we had capacity within our household. Is there capacity within your household?
I think A and B need to understand that having kids is going to mean less time, a lot less time. Also, B wants that evening time to unwind and relax, but ... why do you all have a dog if taking care of the dog isn't part of what's relaxing? If this is B's beloved pet, well, then, walk the dog! That can be relaxing too, with the right framing. With kids, B can absolutely not say, "I'm home and need time to relax," but instead, "Now is the time I spend with my children" because otherwise B won't be spending any time with children. Like, you can't have kids and still expect to have relaxing time at home to watch TV after a busy day. If B's career is too stressful to take on more, then perhaps B is going to need to rethink career decisions before moving forward with kids.
Taking care of a paralyzed dog sounds like a lot of additional work. Another option is to throw some money at this problem. Can you hire one person four or five days a week to do one of the extra therapy walks? That person can come and do the walk even on days when A is working from home.
Are A and B generally working well as a team right now? Or are you circling warily around each other, with some resentment and irritation, and slinging mud and stewing resentment? B is in a high powered position at work. If B's job all of a sudden got extra workload and it all went onto one person, B would likely expect a lot of pushback and irritation if some of that wasn't shared. There seems to be a lack of trust and mutual respect here.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:21 AM on January 11 [8 favorites]
Also, to give personal anecdote, we both contribute our 100% to our household. Our division of household tasks fall along our natural abilities, where one partner is the more default parent, and the other does more planning and finances—opposite of the gender roles that most people would expect. It works for us and we are happy with this.
If one of us is overwhelmed, then we are a great believer in outsourcing: cooking, cleaning, PA, or we start dropping responsibilities.
And we ABSOLUTELY do not prioritise one career over the other, or leisure time, even if one has more “easier” hours than the other. This is why your question has rubbed most of us the wrong way, as it seems Person B is saying their job is more “harder” and hence more important, and therefore needs a WHOLE extra day off to recover (the tiniest violin plays), while Person A picks up the remaining household duties, including pet care.
It’s the same kind of excuse that you hear from deadbeat partners.
posted by moiraine at 11:24 AM on January 11 [7 favorites]
If one of us is overwhelmed, then we are a great believer in outsourcing: cooking, cleaning, PA, or we start dropping responsibilities.
And we ABSOLUTELY do not prioritise one career over the other, or leisure time, even if one has more “easier” hours than the other. This is why your question has rubbed most of us the wrong way, as it seems Person B is saying their job is more “harder” and hence more important, and therefore needs a WHOLE extra day off to recover (the tiniest violin plays), while Person A picks up the remaining household duties, including pet care.
It’s the same kind of excuse that you hear from deadbeat partners.
posted by moiraine at 11:24 AM on January 11 [7 favorites]
So I think one other lurking variable here is that there are many different types of work, both at work and at home:
-Physical - if partner B does ie construction work, they may be physically exhausted
-Mental Focus - work that needs deep focus or a long time paying attention to one particular topic
-Emotional -if either partner's job involves a lot of communicating or explaining with angry and upset people
-Multitasking - Also mental work, but the work of switching contexts, if you have a huge amount of clients at work. Also the work of household stuff such as running out of toothpaste, scheduling and remembering appointments, running to the store because someone needs medicine, etc.
^ Those are just examples
In most partnerships, one partner does more or less of each of these TYPES of work, and you may feel frustrated if you're both doing work, but someone isn't taking any of a certain type. Even if one person works objectively fewer hours, it may still feel overwhelming to do 90% of the multitasking work. I wonder if it would help you to both categorize the types of work you do, at work and at home, and see if you can think of ways to help make that feel more equitable.
posted by nakedmolerats at 11:25 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]
-Physical - if partner B does ie construction work, they may be physically exhausted
-Mental Focus - work that needs deep focus or a long time paying attention to one particular topic
-Emotional -if either partner's job involves a lot of communicating or explaining with angry and upset people
-Multitasking - Also mental work, but the work of switching contexts, if you have a huge amount of clients at work. Also the work of household stuff such as running out of toothpaste, scheduling and remembering appointments, running to the store because someone needs medicine, etc.
^ Those are just examples
In most partnerships, one partner does more or less of each of these TYPES of work, and you may feel frustrated if you're both doing work, but someone isn't taking any of a certain type. Even if one person works objectively fewer hours, it may still feel overwhelming to do 90% of the multitasking work. I wonder if it would help you to both categorize the types of work you do, at work and at home, and see if you can think of ways to help make that feel more equitable.
posted by nakedmolerats at 11:25 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]
As the Person A in my similar scenario, I'll add this to my other comment earlier:
It doesn't just feel unfair to be the only one handing the mental/logistical burden of care for a severely medically compromised pet (this is not just annual vet visits and little injuries or illnesses here and there). It just is unfair when you are in a household with multiple adults who enjoy the companionship and benefits of owning that pet to be the only one putting any time into that pet's care and quality of life.
Our dog was diagnosed with cancer and went through radiation, then when that didn't work was re-diagnosed with an autoimmune disease and placed on heavy medications which severely impacted her kidneys and heart, only to finally be correctly diagnosed about 18 months into the ordeal. She nearly died. I don't know how to explain how much more there is to it than just the hours spent on walks or vet visits. It's coordinating with specialists - calling one vet then the other and making sure records are transferred across. It's getting second and third opinions. It's (in my case) compiling the full history of the symptoms and attempted treatments for those second opinions in a Google doc that ended up being 15 pages long. Whether that got done in the "free" hours of my supposedly easier workday or sitting on the couch at night while the TV was on, it was still incredibly mentally and emotionally taxing. It's getting prescriptions filled and re-filled and re-ordered when the refills run out, and making sure to do so in time so that the pet is never without life-saving meds. It's feeling like it's all on you whether this dog lives or dies or is in pain or gets better.
The way to solve this is for Person B to do more of something. Having a major caretaking life event occur in your household and not expecting one's own burden of work to change at all, regardless of the previous split or perceived difficulty of person A's day, is unfair. Person B solves it by doing more, and you negotiate together how much more and what that more is.
posted by misskaz at 11:27 AM on January 11 [24 favorites]
It doesn't just feel unfair to be the only one handing the mental/logistical burden of care for a severely medically compromised pet (this is not just annual vet visits and little injuries or illnesses here and there). It just is unfair when you are in a household with multiple adults who enjoy the companionship and benefits of owning that pet to be the only one putting any time into that pet's care and quality of life.
Our dog was diagnosed with cancer and went through radiation, then when that didn't work was re-diagnosed with an autoimmune disease and placed on heavy medications which severely impacted her kidneys and heart, only to finally be correctly diagnosed about 18 months into the ordeal. She nearly died. I don't know how to explain how much more there is to it than just the hours spent on walks or vet visits. It's coordinating with specialists - calling one vet then the other and making sure records are transferred across. It's getting second and third opinions. It's (in my case) compiling the full history of the symptoms and attempted treatments for those second opinions in a Google doc that ended up being 15 pages long. Whether that got done in the "free" hours of my supposedly easier workday or sitting on the couch at night while the TV was on, it was still incredibly mentally and emotionally taxing. It's getting prescriptions filled and re-filled and re-ordered when the refills run out, and making sure to do so in time so that the pet is never without life-saving meds. It's feeling like it's all on you whether this dog lives or dies or is in pain or gets better.
The way to solve this is for Person B to do more of something. Having a major caretaking life event occur in your household and not expecting one's own burden of work to change at all, regardless of the previous split or perceived difficulty of person A's day, is unfair. Person B solves it by doing more, and you negotiate together how much more and what that more is.
posted by misskaz at 11:27 AM on January 11 [24 favorites]
Best answer: The way we solved for this was that our Partner B (rigid, always in-house schedule) started taking PTO on appointment days wherever possible to help carry the weight. In our case it was maybe a little more cut and dry because Partner A's job was extremely busy and stressful, even though it was from home so technically more flexible. (Partner A's job was also the much higher earning one, so taking a hit was a super bad idea for the household as a whole.)
Probably Partner A still ended up doing a little more overall, because again, the person who is home can pill the cat, right? But once Partner B was willing to make some big efforts for the more time-consuming caretaking tasks that was less of a huge deal.
In our case if Partners A and B had had children it would have been a nightmare of epic proportions though so I can't speak to that.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:46 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]
Probably Partner A still ended up doing a little more overall, because again, the person who is home can pill the cat, right? But once Partner B was willing to make some big efforts for the more time-consuming caretaking tasks that was less of a huge deal.
In our case if Partners A and B had had children it would have been a nightmare of epic proportions though so I can't speak to that.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:46 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]
I think it's worth noting that by asking everyone to avoid mention of the logistics, the update here, intentionally or not, locates the problem in Partner A's feelings. If I said to my partner 'it is demoralizing and unfair to do most of the rehab and additional work, sacrificing career appearance and productivity' and the response was 'hmm, how can we make you not feel that way without actually changing anything about the way we're doing things,' it.. would not work for me. Treating the feelings as real and important is a starting point, but the reason everyone is talking about how the math works out is that there is no equitable solution to this that doesn't involve Partner B stepping up in some way in recognition of the additional work their partner is doing, post-dog paralysis, for their shared life, whether that is doing more directly or taking the lead on finding and paying for an outsourcing of something, somewhere.
(Andecdotally, I divorced the person who did not see a problem with me doing the vast majority of the childcare and household labor after we had a kid using much of the same logic that's appearing in this post.)
posted by wormtales at 11:48 AM on January 11 [50 favorites]
(Andecdotally, I divorced the person who did not see a problem with me doing the vast majority of the childcare and household labor after we had a kid using much of the same logic that's appearing in this post.)
posted by wormtales at 11:48 AM on January 11 [50 favorites]
Also while I can see now in hindsight that that balancing act was going on throughout our pet's illness/eventual death, at the time I can promise neither of us was really doing a lot of conscious math. It's a pet, it's our family. Our family member was ailing and suffering, and we were both willing to pretty much do anything we could, no matter how difficult, about it. We were also devastated and while in some ways we were actually at our best as partners, there was a lot of exhaustion and emotion that magnified every little thing.
I can't really tell from the post how your Partners A and B feel about this dog; it kind of sounds like neither is, you know, terribly heartbroken about this? But if I'm wrong and they are, well, take into account that some of why Partner A might feel overburdened is that they are getting a heavy dose of worry and grief into the bargain, along with a lot of interruptions and logistics.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:55 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]
I can't really tell from the post how your Partners A and B feel about this dog; it kind of sounds like neither is, you know, terribly heartbroken about this? But if I'm wrong and they are, well, take into account that some of why Partner A might feel overburdened is that they are getting a heavy dose of worry and grief into the bargain, along with a lot of interruptions and logistics.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:55 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]
One thing that I took away (but still sometimes have a hard time reconciling) from the “Fair Play” method of the division of labor is someone completely owning a task AND if they need support, going to someone who is NOT their partner. So I’m this instance, if Partner B had the dog card, that may require finding, organizing etc a dog walker even if Partner A is at home. (Obviously this brings up money in to the convo- for me and my partner, outsource a chore like this would come from our personal money). Or maybe it means coordinating with family or a friend in town who could do an appointment.
It feels counterintuitive to not ask your partner for help, but I do think it speaks to the importance of a larger community.
Now my partner and I certainly help each other out, and we’re still finding our balance, but I think it helps to remember this isn’t a closed system. The solution to the division of labor can involve an outside factor.
We don’t have or plan to have children so we skipped the entire pet if fair-play that involved kids, but if you generally like that system, it might be something to consider
posted by raccoon409 at 12:10 PM on January 11 [4 favorites]
It feels counterintuitive to not ask your partner for help, but I do think it speaks to the importance of a larger community.
Now my partner and I certainly help each other out, and we’re still finding our balance, but I think it helps to remember this isn’t a closed system. The solution to the division of labor can involve an outside factor.
We don’t have or plan to have children so we skipped the entire pet if fair-play that involved kids, but if you generally like that system, it might be something to consider
posted by raccoon409 at 12:10 PM on January 11 [4 favorites]
Putting aside for a moment the math of the hours and various aspects of careers, for one person of two to take on all or the vast majority of emergency matters is probably unfairly taxing that person's emotional reservoir also.
posted by NotLost at 12:14 PM on January 11 [9 favorites]
posted by NotLost at 12:14 PM on January 11 [9 favorites]
When it comes to the feeling of doing the emergency labor, emergency childcare, emergency drs visits, mostly falling on the flexible-hours partner, what anecdotes do you have from your life, and how did your partnership solve for this?
Largely by not making a distinction between feeling unfair and being unfair. If it feels unfair, that’s a real and serious problem, and I don’t want to math it out to “prove” who’s right, I want to *fix the thing that’s causing one of us to feel things are unfair*. If the division of labor feels unfair, something has to change. Maybe it will require some trial and error, but the status quo is not okay.
On the specific issue of emergency pet stuff, I generally have more capability to handle those things for disability-related reasons, so it doesn’t matter who has more time - I take the lead on them. Part of the reason I work the job I do is that I value work-life balance and being able to flexibly handle personal life needs. But my partner sees that effort and if I have to, e.g., take a day off work to deal with a pet thing, he picks something else up that I’d usually do, or makes sure dinner is one of my favorite comfort foods, or *somehow* makes sure I get that time and effort repaid in some way. I also know there are other kinds of emergency things I can absolutely make his problem instead of mine, so I take the view of my earlier comment - over decades together, I think it easily balances out. I’m not worried about who’s doing more in the short term. But that’s partly because we explicitly pitch our lives to be manageable in stressful times, because we are both disabled and neurodivergent and have to build enough slack in our lives for the unexpected flare-ups, etc.
posted by Stacey at 12:46 PM on January 11 [8 favorites]
Largely by not making a distinction between feeling unfair and being unfair. If it feels unfair, that’s a real and serious problem, and I don’t want to math it out to “prove” who’s right, I want to *fix the thing that’s causing one of us to feel things are unfair*. If the division of labor feels unfair, something has to change. Maybe it will require some trial and error, but the status quo is not okay.
On the specific issue of emergency pet stuff, I generally have more capability to handle those things for disability-related reasons, so it doesn’t matter who has more time - I take the lead on them. Part of the reason I work the job I do is that I value work-life balance and being able to flexibly handle personal life needs. But my partner sees that effort and if I have to, e.g., take a day off work to deal with a pet thing, he picks something else up that I’d usually do, or makes sure dinner is one of my favorite comfort foods, or *somehow* makes sure I get that time and effort repaid in some way. I also know there are other kinds of emergency things I can absolutely make his problem instead of mine, so I take the view of my earlier comment - over decades together, I think it easily balances out. I’m not worried about who’s doing more in the short term. But that’s partly because we explicitly pitch our lives to be manageable in stressful times, because we are both disabled and neurodivergent and have to build enough slack in our lives for the unexpected flare-ups, etc.
posted by Stacey at 12:46 PM on January 11 [8 favorites]
Their dog recently was paralyzed, and all of the daytime drs appointments, rehab, extra walks, and training has fallen onto Partner A. Partner A has had to miss working in person (sacrificing some career credibility).
OK real talk.
When terrible things like this happen, whether to pets or kids, or less terrible things like cold Covid and flu, it impacts the adults in the home. There isn’t any way to make the status quo that was before these responsibilities, or the pre-crisis status quo to return. When you have young kids, they get sick, then you get sick, the daycare doesn’t always work out, the emergency childcare doesn’t always work out, and it does impact on the adults in the family.
So the question is, how do you work that out as a team?
In my family, we have done it almost every way possible because a lot has gone down. The thing is, we always approached it as a team, and all the considerations counted. If I felt that working from home on Fridays was impacting on my career, we talked about it. If we both had incredibly important meetings, while our child was sick , we worked together and usually traded off on a one-to-one basis. We never took the regular chores into consideration because we went into “emergency mode“ where we ate French toast for dinner, and put things in baskets, rather than putting them away and clean things as necessary that is kitchen and bathrooms
It sounds to me like both of you are struggling with the reality that now this dog requires a lot of care. My recommendation would be that you connect about that first. How are you feeling about it, what’s the impact on your careers what’s the plan going forward? All of those things.
For partner a, I would suggest cultivating a little bit of a thicker skin about career impacts if, and only if that is, indeed, partner is priority – care of the dog first. For partner B, I would suggest that there Hass to be some kind of impact negotiated – it might be taking say three sick days in the next two months to manage dog issues. It might be not getting as much refresh time.
The main thing, is not to assume that the person who is dealing with the problem is happy about it. Don’t assume that the impact can be mitigated just through better time management. It can’t. It’s a new family reality with little kids, it’s no different. If you have two working parents, and no back up, someone’s career is going to suffer a little bit at least until we have a better world. In my family, we agreed that one of the goals was to mitigate that impact on both partners were possible. My husband learned that when he took time off because the child was sick , he was supported better possibly, because he was perceived as being ultra responsible. So he took more sick days. Later, he had a new project and I had more credibility, so I took more responsibility for sick days. It’s always in flex. The main thing is to really make sure that you’re both able to listen to each other and share the reality .
posted by warriorqueen at 2:14 PM on January 11 [13 favorites]
OK real talk.
When terrible things like this happen, whether to pets or kids, or less terrible things like cold Covid and flu, it impacts the adults in the home. There isn’t any way to make the status quo that was before these responsibilities, or the pre-crisis status quo to return. When you have young kids, they get sick, then you get sick, the daycare doesn’t always work out, the emergency childcare doesn’t always work out, and it does impact on the adults in the family.
So the question is, how do you work that out as a team?
In my family, we have done it almost every way possible because a lot has gone down. The thing is, we always approached it as a team, and all the considerations counted. If I felt that working from home on Fridays was impacting on my career, we talked about it. If we both had incredibly important meetings, while our child was sick , we worked together and usually traded off on a one-to-one basis. We never took the regular chores into consideration because we went into “emergency mode“ where we ate French toast for dinner, and put things in baskets, rather than putting them away and clean things as necessary that is kitchen and bathrooms
It sounds to me like both of you are struggling with the reality that now this dog requires a lot of care. My recommendation would be that you connect about that first. How are you feeling about it, what’s the impact on your careers what’s the plan going forward? All of those things.
For partner a, I would suggest cultivating a little bit of a thicker skin about career impacts if, and only if that is, indeed, partner is priority – care of the dog first. For partner B, I would suggest that there Hass to be some kind of impact negotiated – it might be taking say three sick days in the next two months to manage dog issues. It might be not getting as much refresh time.
The main thing, is not to assume that the person who is dealing with the problem is happy about it. Don’t assume that the impact can be mitigated just through better time management. It can’t. It’s a new family reality with little kids, it’s no different. If you have two working parents, and no back up, someone’s career is going to suffer a little bit at least until we have a better world. In my family, we agreed that one of the goals was to mitigate that impact on both partners were possible. My husband learned that when he took time off because the child was sick , he was supported better possibly, because he was perceived as being ultra responsible. So he took more sick days. Later, he had a new project and I had more credibility, so I took more responsibility for sick days. It’s always in flex. The main thing is to really make sure that you’re both able to listen to each other and share the reality .
posted by warriorqueen at 2:14 PM on January 11 [13 favorites]
Best answer: I am essentially partner A in my relationship. When we have had pet health problems, I am the one who almost always takes the time off or works from home the extra day. I have an additional benefit, where my boss is a reasonable and understanding person, so taking time off has not hurt my standing. This is part of the reason why I have the job that I have.
Me taking a more flexible job (with lower pay, but great benefits ) was a conscious decision we made as a couple. Even though I have the lower stress and more flexible job, my B is still always very appreciative of what I do. My B also thinks my job is very important, and routinely talks up my job to others. And whenever we have to take advantage of my job's flexibility for a one off, he's still vocally thankful and apologetic he couldn't be there.
When something ongoing happens, like a long term sick pet, we definitely outsource what we can, and B will take the lead on that (like dealing with dinner, usually a shared or alternating task by ordering in/picking up something ready made). He will also take off work when possible.
I don't know for sure, but I think my B feels things are balanced as a general rule, so if I am picking up something that means he should do so as well, if he is able to. There have been a few times where something has happened during business travel or long work days, so it's all been on me. He's again apologetic and thankful. I also trust him and know if it was at all possible he'd be there.
So the short answer to what I find helpful is the sincere expression of gratitude for taking on something. But I think this works because we feel our relationship is balanced and trust each other to do what they can, when they can.
The added confound of career impact would change things for me, but in a way that my B and I would have to discuss as a team.
posted by ghost phoneme at 2:30 PM on January 11 [3 favorites]
Me taking a more flexible job (with lower pay, but great benefits ) was a conscious decision we made as a couple. Even though I have the lower stress and more flexible job, my B is still always very appreciative of what I do. My B also thinks my job is very important, and routinely talks up my job to others. And whenever we have to take advantage of my job's flexibility for a one off, he's still vocally thankful and apologetic he couldn't be there.
When something ongoing happens, like a long term sick pet, we definitely outsource what we can, and B will take the lead on that (like dealing with dinner, usually a shared or alternating task by ordering in/picking up something ready made). He will also take off work when possible.
I don't know for sure, but I think my B feels things are balanced as a general rule, so if I am picking up something that means he should do so as well, if he is able to. There have been a few times where something has happened during business travel or long work days, so it's all been on me. He's again apologetic and thankful. I also trust him and know if it was at all possible he'd be there.
So the short answer to what I find helpful is the sincere expression of gratitude for taking on something. But I think this works because we feel our relationship is balanced and trust each other to do what they can, when they can.
The added confound of career impact would change things for me, but in a way that my B and I would have to discuss as a team.
posted by ghost phoneme at 2:30 PM on January 11 [3 favorites]
People usually get the privilege of a short workday by performing intellectually demanding labour - additional work hours would be unproductive. I can tell you that dealing with a seriously ill/injured/post surgical dog is also emotionally and intellectually draining. Partner A is probably running on empty. As a single person, I held a full time WFH job with flex hours and rehabbed my dog after a planned knee surgery and it was incredibly stressful. I didn’t feel right for months. Partner B is really undervaluing Partner A’s contribution.
If Partner A needs someone to take over vet visits and decision making, listen. Use PTO. Help your partner. This is definitely a relationship defining moment for Partner A, show that the partnership is valued.
posted by shock muppet at 2:45 PM on January 11 [3 favorites]
If Partner A needs someone to take over vet visits and decision making, listen. Use PTO. Help your partner. This is definitely a relationship defining moment for Partner A, show that the partnership is valued.
posted by shock muppet at 2:45 PM on January 11 [3 favorites]
My experience in dealing with unfair or unpleasant division of labour leads me to approach your problem this way:
If I were you, I'd start by asking myself, "Do I love other person enough to do this for them?" Sometimes, yes I do. If I can answer that I love them enough that I actually actively WANT do be making their life easier by carrying more of the load, then I can focus on that and get over the resentment.
But does A actually love B enough to look after the dog for them? Does B actually love A enough to look after the dog for A? It's perfectly possible that neither of you love each other (are committed to the relationship) enough to look after the dog, or the other shared responsibilities resulting from your dog's illness.
It's also perfectly possible that B can't do more, nor can A sustain looking after the dog. That really does happen and could be your situation. Is the real problem that the two of you are tapped out? Maye that's why good will and affectionate communication cannot solve your problem. If A is on the slippery slope of job insecurity, and that B is out of mental, emotional, executive and physiological resources, neither one of you can solve the impasse by conceding. Both of you may want to believe that the other one can step up and handle the situation, and be in denial that their tower of strength is crumbling.
Maybe it's time to put the dog down. Yes, you promised to be a good dog owner and you love the dog, but just like someone who loses their job and can't afford to feed their dog, even by cutting down to less than maintenance calories for themself, maybe you just can't do it. Or are either of you willing to redouble your efforts to protect and save the dog?
I kind of hope your situation is that grim, that you seriously need to consider putting the dog down, because otherwise you guys are basically playing chicken with the dog's well being and each other's well being. Do you love your dog? Do you love each other? It doesn't sound like that.
One question I ask myself in situations like this is, "Is the other person using their personal power to stick me with the job?" If they are, can I use my own personal power to evade the job? At one point I left all the groceries in their bags on the kitchen floor until the ice cream oozed out of the bag and the frozen vegetables turned into warm soft slop, and the meat was room temperature and smelt funny. The other members of the household then opted to take on the chore of putting the groceries away, and did so without discussion or resentment. They knew that if they wanted to eat they would have to do that, because I was out of spoons.
Yet if either one of you is willing to force their partner to look after the dog through their own inaction, then they lose the ethical right to make decisions for the dog - they have, in effect given their partner permission to also abandon the dog without guilt, and the right to put the dog down to spare it being abandoned or neglected.
B needs to ask themself, if A were to be suddenly hospitalized, would they take over looking after the dog? A needs to ask themself, if B were to suddenly be hospitalized, would they continue looking after the dog? You might be able to solve the problem if each of you took complete ownership of it.
Maybe either of you could simply concede and deal with it, but the sheer unfairness of asking you to do more is the wedge making it impossible for you to negotiate something you both can accept. You are in a partnership, but unless your partner brings more to the table, you don't want to be in the relationship, and you don't care how much it costs them. They OWE you more effort, in return for you being there at all.
You really, really do not want to win this kind of a power struggle and be the one who doesn't look after the dog, because your partner may never forget, nor forgive that you stuck them with it. If your focus isn't making sure things are as good as they can be for your partner... then they are not really your partner and you are telling them that you don't care how much damage you do - you just want to take as much as you can away from them.
If you are responsible adults, A should be regarding the dog's well being as their own problem to solve, and B should be regarding the dog's well being as their own problem to solve. A should be regarding both your individual job security as their own problem to solve, and B should be regarding both your individual job security as their own problem to solve. Forget delegating this to your partner. YOU need to solve it so that the dog, your partner, your relationship and your family finances all get through this okay. If A ends up continuing to look after the dog, then if B is committed to the relationship, B's priority has to be mitigating the negative consequences to A. If B ends up looking after the dog, then A's priority has to be mitigating the negative consequences to B.
It really seems to boil down to the classic problem of how committed you are to the relationship and to the dog. Does B care enough about A to take on more of the work? Does A care enough about B to continue doing the work? These are dangerous questions. Because if the answer to either question is no, the one stuck looking after the baby is going to stop feel loved. It is a short distance - a very short distance - from feeling unloved to ceasing to feel love.
What would you do if you loved your dog, and your partner?
posted by Jane the Brown at 5:30 PM on January 11 [5 favorites]
If I were you, I'd start by asking myself, "Do I love other person enough to do this for them?" Sometimes, yes I do. If I can answer that I love them enough that I actually actively WANT do be making their life easier by carrying more of the load, then I can focus on that and get over the resentment.
But does A actually love B enough to look after the dog for them? Does B actually love A enough to look after the dog for A? It's perfectly possible that neither of you love each other (are committed to the relationship) enough to look after the dog, or the other shared responsibilities resulting from your dog's illness.
It's also perfectly possible that B can't do more, nor can A sustain looking after the dog. That really does happen and could be your situation. Is the real problem that the two of you are tapped out? Maye that's why good will and affectionate communication cannot solve your problem. If A is on the slippery slope of job insecurity, and that B is out of mental, emotional, executive and physiological resources, neither one of you can solve the impasse by conceding. Both of you may want to believe that the other one can step up and handle the situation, and be in denial that their tower of strength is crumbling.
Maybe it's time to put the dog down. Yes, you promised to be a good dog owner and you love the dog, but just like someone who loses their job and can't afford to feed their dog, even by cutting down to less than maintenance calories for themself, maybe you just can't do it. Or are either of you willing to redouble your efforts to protect and save the dog?
I kind of hope your situation is that grim, that you seriously need to consider putting the dog down, because otherwise you guys are basically playing chicken with the dog's well being and each other's well being. Do you love your dog? Do you love each other? It doesn't sound like that.
One question I ask myself in situations like this is, "Is the other person using their personal power to stick me with the job?" If they are, can I use my own personal power to evade the job? At one point I left all the groceries in their bags on the kitchen floor until the ice cream oozed out of the bag and the frozen vegetables turned into warm soft slop, and the meat was room temperature and smelt funny. The other members of the household then opted to take on the chore of putting the groceries away, and did so without discussion or resentment. They knew that if they wanted to eat they would have to do that, because I was out of spoons.
Yet if either one of you is willing to force their partner to look after the dog through their own inaction, then they lose the ethical right to make decisions for the dog - they have, in effect given their partner permission to also abandon the dog without guilt, and the right to put the dog down to spare it being abandoned or neglected.
B needs to ask themself, if A were to be suddenly hospitalized, would they take over looking after the dog? A needs to ask themself, if B were to suddenly be hospitalized, would they continue looking after the dog? You might be able to solve the problem if each of you took complete ownership of it.
Maybe either of you could simply concede and deal with it, but the sheer unfairness of asking you to do more is the wedge making it impossible for you to negotiate something you both can accept. You are in a partnership, but unless your partner brings more to the table, you don't want to be in the relationship, and you don't care how much it costs them. They OWE you more effort, in return for you being there at all.
You really, really do not want to win this kind of a power struggle and be the one who doesn't look after the dog, because your partner may never forget, nor forgive that you stuck them with it. If your focus isn't making sure things are as good as they can be for your partner... then they are not really your partner and you are telling them that you don't care how much damage you do - you just want to take as much as you can away from them.
If you are responsible adults, A should be regarding the dog's well being as their own problem to solve, and B should be regarding the dog's well being as their own problem to solve. A should be regarding both your individual job security as their own problem to solve, and B should be regarding both your individual job security as their own problem to solve. Forget delegating this to your partner. YOU need to solve it so that the dog, your partner, your relationship and your family finances all get through this okay. If A ends up continuing to look after the dog, then if B is committed to the relationship, B's priority has to be mitigating the negative consequences to A. If B ends up looking after the dog, then A's priority has to be mitigating the negative consequences to B.
It really seems to boil down to the classic problem of how committed you are to the relationship and to the dog. Does B care enough about A to take on more of the work? Does A care enough about B to continue doing the work? These are dangerous questions. Because if the answer to either question is no, the one stuck looking after the baby is going to stop feel loved. It is a short distance - a very short distance - from feeling unloved to ceasing to feel love.
What would you do if you loved your dog, and your partner?
posted by Jane the Brown at 5:30 PM on January 11 [5 favorites]
You and your partner have this thing to do as a team. Take care of an ailing dog. Things like this don't have to be 50/50 but they do have to be divided equitably for the members of the team. Right now it's not really equitable and the way to know this is because one partner is doing literally all the dog work and is overwhelmed by it.
It's really good you're asking this about your shared dog before you have a child because this is the sort of issue that comes up in parenthood but amplified times like a bajillion.
Flexibility in work hours is great, yet a lot of times what happens is that for the person with the flexible schedule, the home duties expand and grow to interfere with their actual job that they have the skills to do. How we have managed this challenge with a small human in the house is by planning ahead, alternating, and accepting that we just don't have nearly as much time to ourselves any more. If you know obligations are coming (lack of child care, dog rehab, etc.) you can schedule and triage. And (here is the big and) Person B has to be willing to take time off work and reduce their personal time to do their share of this team project.
I know you intentionally did not mention gender here and I don't assume that I know who has what gender for your question. I do want to gently suggest that you both consider the role of gender in the way the outside world interacts with and learns from the actions of person A and person B. For example, my partner and I feel it is important for people in the world to see men taking time off work for caring activities like parenting a sick kid. It helps build a better world for everyone when that is normalized.
posted by donut_princess at 6:26 PM on January 11 [9 favorites]
It's really good you're asking this about your shared dog before you have a child because this is the sort of issue that comes up in parenthood but amplified times like a bajillion.
Flexibility in work hours is great, yet a lot of times what happens is that for the person with the flexible schedule, the home duties expand and grow to interfere with their actual job that they have the skills to do. How we have managed this challenge with a small human in the house is by planning ahead, alternating, and accepting that we just don't have nearly as much time to ourselves any more. If you know obligations are coming (lack of child care, dog rehab, etc.) you can schedule and triage. And (here is the big and) Person B has to be willing to take time off work and reduce their personal time to do their share of this team project.
I know you intentionally did not mention gender here and I don't assume that I know who has what gender for your question. I do want to gently suggest that you both consider the role of gender in the way the outside world interacts with and learns from the actions of person A and person B. For example, my partner and I feel it is important for people in the world to see men taking time off work for caring activities like parenting a sick kid. It helps build a better world for everyone when that is normalized.
posted by donut_princess at 6:26 PM on January 11 [9 favorites]
Best answer: Since you want specific examples and anecdotes, I can share that Partner B changed jobs to a more flexible one and now takes PTO when emergencies arise to share the burden with Partner A. Partner B also has every other Friday off to take care of household chores, medical appointments, shopping etc.
posted by Toddles at 7:56 PM on January 11 [2 favorites]
posted by Toddles at 7:56 PM on January 11 [2 favorites]
Is it always the partner with sick days / with any flexibility that picks up the burden?
No, and either partner that thinks this is appropriate isn’t ready to be a parent.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 9:57 PM on January 11 [2 favorites]
No, and either partner that thinks this is appropriate isn’t ready to be a parent.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 9:57 PM on January 11 [2 favorites]
What helped our case was both partners taking significant parental leave in the first year (5 months for my partner, 7 months for me). This allowed in depth bonding with the child for both of us, so that the family worked more as a team (baby included!). When both parents were back at work we had more sympathetic and empathetic discussions on labour/duties and were better able to address the issues you bring up.
Of course, we were fortunate in being able to take this parental leave in the way that we did. If you're capable of making it happen, I think it has significant long term benefits on the family as a whole.
posted by einekleine at 2:52 AM on January 12
Of course, we were fortunate in being able to take this parental leave in the way that we did. If you're capable of making it happen, I think it has significant long term benefits on the family as a whole.
posted by einekleine at 2:52 AM on January 12
It isn't incredibly unfair, just a large shift from status quo so "feels" more unfair to Partner A.
Step one is to acknowledge that it is unfair and stop dismissing A's awareness of that as just "feelings." (Feelings are also important, of course, but it's clear from the question that B does not see that this is unfair and is doing a lot of math and belittling A's job to get where they want to go.)
posted by Mavri at 4:26 PM on January 12 [3 favorites]
Step one is to acknowledge that it is unfair and stop dismissing A's awareness of that as just "feelings." (Feelings are also important, of course, but it's clear from the question that B does not see that this is unfair and is doing a lot of math and belittling A's job to get where they want to go.)
posted by Mavri at 4:26 PM on January 12 [3 favorites]
Taking care of a paralyzed dog is absolutely not a 2-hour a day job. The numbers matter, whether partner B cares to admit that or not. Doing labor at home is a 24-hour job. Feeling overwhelmed by that and needing time off is completely normal, even if someone isn’t working a job at all. And it’s not about the feelings at all—at the end of the day the division of labor is about numbers and time. Fix the division of labor and the hard feelings go away.
It’s hard not to read this as gaslighting by partner B.
The most important thing you can do during hard times in a relationship is to really hear your partner, to take the time to empathize and understand and work together to solve the problem. When partner B starts running numbers to prove that they work harder than partner A during the day, then using those numbers to justify expecting A to continue to work in the evening even as A is telling B they’re exhausted, any empathy and compassion and problem solving is lost. That attitude absolutely can and does doom relationships. If A and B don’t fix it this relationship will not survive children.
Partner B needs to spend some serious time reflecting and looking inward to decide what they really want out of this relationship.
posted by Amy93 at 5:51 PM on January 12 [5 favorites]
It’s hard not to read this as gaslighting by partner B.
The most important thing you can do during hard times in a relationship is to really hear your partner, to take the time to empathize and understand and work together to solve the problem. When partner B starts running numbers to prove that they work harder than partner A during the day, then using those numbers to justify expecting A to continue to work in the evening even as A is telling B they’re exhausted, any empathy and compassion and problem solving is lost. That attitude absolutely can and does doom relationships. If A and B don’t fix it this relationship will not survive children.
Partner B needs to spend some serious time reflecting and looking inward to decide what they really want out of this relationship.
posted by Amy93 at 5:51 PM on January 12 [5 favorites]
More thoughts: It basically seems like partner B ran their own set of numbers to prove that this arrangement is perfectly fair and that the real problem is A’s feelings and not the actual division of labor like A is saying. Now they’re dismissing anyone else running the numbers as unhelpful. This seems like a cop out to avoid taking responsibility in a difficult situation.
Partner B needs to let go of the numbers and arguing and just listen. If they can’t do that, they will win this battle but ultimately lose the war. What path forward is there in a dynamic like that? I’m pretty sure even the dog won’t be on their side, since A is doing most of the caretaking anyway.
Sometimes a little humility goes a long way.
posted by Amy93 at 6:08 PM on January 12 [6 favorites]
Partner B needs to let go of the numbers and arguing and just listen. If they can’t do that, they will win this battle but ultimately lose the war. What path forward is there in a dynamic like that? I’m pretty sure even the dog won’t be on their side, since A is doing most of the caretaking anyway.
Sometimes a little humility goes a long way.
posted by Amy93 at 6:08 PM on January 12 [6 favorites]
You want anecdotes? Ok, I have kind of been partner A in a similar situation. Partner B told me (much like this scenario!) that my WFH job was ‘easy’ therefore it was no big deal for me to pick up the slack and do the other chores around the house during this time. (They did very few chores to even things out for me once they got home from work, it was in no way equitable.)
I replied that if it was so easy, Partner B (who also had the ability to WFH but had yet to take up that option) could then swap with me, WFH and have my easy life complete with running the house and chores on top of it. I would go back to the office.
You would think that given they said it was the ‘easier’ option they would jump at it. Surprisingly, partner B started backpedaling and after being put on the spot, eventually acknowledged that doing WFH and all the chores was in no way easier which is why they didn’t want to swap roles with me.
After repeated discussions where I as Partner A got nowhere with my requests for help, Partner B was then informed that if they didn’t start contributing around the house, I would either quit my job to do the housework myself because I could no longer do everything, or I would quit the relationship. I gave them the option as to which that would be.
They chose to save the relationship and started doing more. Still not an equal amount but more than before.
I would not be surprised at all if Partner A here reaches the same point and would advise them not to have children with Partner B. I think they’re very lucky to get this picture now of how things might play out if they have kids, this is their chance to dodge that bullet.
The attitude that Partner B has in this question kills relationships dead, they don’t care about their partner and are doing whatever mental gymnastics they can to argue against looking after them or caring about their ‘feelings’.
Like someone else said, they might win this battle but they’ll lose the war.
posted by Jubey at 11:40 PM on January 12 [5 favorites]
I replied that if it was so easy, Partner B (who also had the ability to WFH but had yet to take up that option) could then swap with me, WFH and have my easy life complete with running the house and chores on top of it. I would go back to the office.
You would think that given they said it was the ‘easier’ option they would jump at it. Surprisingly, partner B started backpedaling and after being put on the spot, eventually acknowledged that doing WFH and all the chores was in no way easier which is why they didn’t want to swap roles with me.
After repeated discussions where I as Partner A got nowhere with my requests for help, Partner B was then informed that if they didn’t start contributing around the house, I would either quit my job to do the housework myself because I could no longer do everything, or I would quit the relationship. I gave them the option as to which that would be.
They chose to save the relationship and started doing more. Still not an equal amount but more than before.
I would not be surprised at all if Partner A here reaches the same point and would advise them not to have children with Partner B. I think they’re very lucky to get this picture now of how things might play out if they have kids, this is their chance to dodge that bullet.
The attitude that Partner B has in this question kills relationships dead, they don’t care about their partner and are doing whatever mental gymnastics they can to argue against looking after them or caring about their ‘feelings’.
Like someone else said, they might win this battle but they’ll lose the war.
posted by Jubey at 11:40 PM on January 12 [5 favorites]
If you want anecdotes, the landscape is littered with instances where Partner B makes many multiples more money than Partner A in some kind of career where that is only going to increase. I bring this up because actual money has been mostly absent from this thread. If Partner B is really making a shitload of money, that brings different considerations into play. It often ends up that Partner A becomes the houshold admin full time because at a certain point it seems like it's costing the couple money for Partner A to be working outside the home. While that may work out to some degree, I think it is it is kind of nonsmart for Partner B to go down that path early in life. They're apt to end up like so many divorced spouses, with a radically lower standard of living and maybe losing their kids too, because their high-earning ex would prefer custody to the kind of child support the courts would deem appropriate.
I watched this happen all over the suburbs I grew up in. A lot of women-- yes, they were all women-- were happier without the wealthy man anyway, but were they glad they'd gotten into that position? I would tell Partner A to at least get a very good prenup and Partner B to really think about supporting their spouse's career even if it literally costs money to do so. Working only in your own home is just as important but it never seems to get treated that way, which I think this post actually illustrates.
posted by BibiRose at 5:12 AM on January 13 [3 favorites]
I watched this happen all over the suburbs I grew up in. A lot of women-- yes, they were all women-- were happier without the wealthy man anyway, but were they glad they'd gotten into that position? I would tell Partner A to at least get a very good prenup and Partner B to really think about supporting their spouse's career even if it literally costs money to do so. Working only in your own home is just as important but it never seems to get treated that way, which I think this post actually illustrates.
posted by BibiRose at 5:12 AM on January 13 [3 favorites]
> The attitude that [OP] has in this question kills relationships dead, they don’t care about their partner and are doing whatever mental gymnastics they can to argue against looking after them or caring about their ‘feelings’.
Quoted for being the fucking truth. I, too, was Partner A and I am now an EX Partner A, precisely because my Partner B had the same 'mental gymnastics' attitude towards me that OP does towards Partner A. On this thread alone there are so many women who have had our hearts and our trust shattered by men like OP.
Technically, we don't know that OP is Partner B, so we don't know that Partner A's relationship is doomed, necessarily. Technically we also don't know the genders of the people involved. Soooo technically, it's possible that OP is simply judging someone else's relationship and someone else's division of labor from afar? That is a nice possibility to contemplate. I hope for your sake that you aren't "that guy", OP.
posted by MiraK at 5:13 AM on January 13 [5 favorites]
Quoted for being the fucking truth. I, too, was Partner A and I am now an EX Partner A, precisely because my Partner B had the same 'mental gymnastics' attitude towards me that OP does towards Partner A. On this thread alone there are so many women who have had our hearts and our trust shattered by men like OP.
Technically, we don't know that OP is Partner B, so we don't know that Partner A's relationship is doomed, necessarily. Technically we also don't know the genders of the people involved. Soooo technically, it's possible that OP is simply judging someone else's relationship and someone else's division of labor from afar? That is a nice possibility to contemplate. I hope for your sake that you aren't "that guy", OP.
posted by MiraK at 5:13 AM on January 13 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: I’m not sure why it matters, but I am partner A, male, work from home, and make much more money.
Partner b is female, works in person, and makes 40% less with less potential for career growth.
Our relationship is nontraditional roles in many ways so I appreciate all the advice that respected my neutrality.
Like all askmefis about relationships, much can probably be accomplished with a conversation. It just so happened that the dog thing happened at the same time as partner B getting a new job. Hard to take PTO for a health crisis your first two weeks. And all the stress related to a new job too.
Ultimately I feel a little under appreciated for the domestic labor and career sacrifice I am making, and the next week or so we will be relaxing on vacation where I bet I can have a non confrontational conversation about needing to go into the office. I’ll probably do the work myself of finding a daytime dog “walker” for those days.
Any further advice for making those conversations pleasant, understanding, loving, and empathetic as the person that is feeling unappreciated / slightly unfair (I really do think my job is much easier) would be appreciated!
posted by bbqturtle at 2:11 PM on January 13 [2 favorites]
Partner b is female, works in person, and makes 40% less with less potential for career growth.
Our relationship is nontraditional roles in many ways so I appreciate all the advice that respected my neutrality.
Like all askmefis about relationships, much can probably be accomplished with a conversation. It just so happened that the dog thing happened at the same time as partner B getting a new job. Hard to take PTO for a health crisis your first two weeks. And all the stress related to a new job too.
Ultimately I feel a little under appreciated for the domestic labor and career sacrifice I am making, and the next week or so we will be relaxing on vacation where I bet I can have a non confrontational conversation about needing to go into the office. I’ll probably do the work myself of finding a daytime dog “walker” for those days.
Any further advice for making those conversations pleasant, understanding, loving, and empathetic as the person that is feeling unappreciated / slightly unfair (I really do think my job is much easier) would be appreciated!
posted by bbqturtle at 2:11 PM on January 13 [2 favorites]
Okay, so all of the dismissive/disrespectful statements about Partner A that you have written here (such as, for example, dismissing this as a problem located only in Partner A's feelings, not reality) - are these coming from your own opinion of the consideration you and your feelings deserve? Are they what you have assumed your partner must feel towards you (possibly because that's what their actions indicate)? Or are they coming from your partner, i.e. you're reporting the words your partner has explicitly said to you or about you?
These are material facts which change the meaning of your question greatly. Any advice must depend on whether your partner has expressed these attitudes towards you, or whether you've tried to argue their side for them in this Ask by ascribing these attitudes to them.
posted by MiraK at 3:37 PM on January 13 [2 favorites]
These are material facts which change the meaning of your question greatly. Any advice must depend on whether your partner has expressed these attitudes towards you, or whether you've tried to argue their side for them in this Ask by ascribing these attitudes to them.
posted by MiraK at 3:37 PM on January 13 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Just my own feelings. We haven’t talked about this a ton because we literally haven’t had another option (no pto yet because of new job)
posted by bbqturtle at 5:36 PM on January 13
posted by bbqturtle at 5:36 PM on January 13
Oh, bbqturtle. I kinda want to give you a big hug right now.
Look what you just said about your wife having "no pto yet because of new job". That makes it sound like she will soon see her PTO kick in, possibly in time for her to pick up more of the dog work and certainly well in time for the future baby work!... which means her unwillingness to take on dog duties (however unfair it may be) is at least *temporary*. But in your Ask made it sound like doing everything alone is your permanent fate in life, forever and ever more.
> Is this just Partner A's life forever anytime daytime help is needed, as the one with the more flexible work? ... Is it always the partner with sick days / with any flexibility that picks up the burden?
It's difficult to tell whether you feel like your fate is permanent because you are spiraling due to overwhelm, or because she has given you every reason to think you'll get saddled with all this work? Most likely it's a combination of both, but I wouldn't know. All I can think is that you need a hug from us on the internet, and some outside help for the complex tangle of issues you're dealing with.
In your Ask you really did say a lot of disrespectful things about Partner A. Adding the phrase "for some reason" after saying Partner A wants to go to the office, for instance. And, you said Partner A is "sacrificing career appearance and productivity" but in later comments you backpedaled on this saying Partner A only has 4-5 hours of work to do every day and even with the dog work added it's only 6 hours - which gives the impression of undercutting and/or entirely dismissing the original claim that Partner A's career and productivity has been affected at all. It's not easy to feel this way about oneself and one's situation. This is a LOT of complicated pain and stress for you to be carrying, bbqturtle. Again, all I can think is you need a hug (and help from someone in this pay grade).
You say now that this is all in your head and your partner hasn't done or said anything to make you think you deserve to be dismissed and devalued in this way. Maybe that is true, and maybe it really is the emotional upheaval of watching your dog go through so much that's causing you to spiral. But it could also be true that your partner has nonverbally, through her actions, given you the messages that you're picking up on and internalizing, and that in combination with your poor dog's issues has caused you to spiral.
We here on the internet aren't going to be able to figure out where this is coming from, for you. Get thee to a therapist - or two, because you also need a couples' therapist! With your own therapist, get some support dealing with your grief and overwhelm from what your dog is going through, and work on your self esteem maybe? And in couples' therapy, please try to figure out where your devastated feelings of being unsupported by your wife are coming from. This therapy suggestion may sound too big and complicated for you to consider practical, but you know, your Ask has been a very complicated story. There's a lot roiling under the surface. Therapy is SO EXACTLY the perfect tool for it, though! As with any good tool, it will likely make quick work of all these issues - you're probably looking at only a short stint in therapy, a few weeks or months, not years. I genuinely think therapy will be worth your while.
posted by MiraK at 3:13 AM on January 14 [2 favorites]
Look what you just said about your wife having "no pto yet because of new job". That makes it sound like she will soon see her PTO kick in, possibly in time for her to pick up more of the dog work and certainly well in time for the future baby work!... which means her unwillingness to take on dog duties (however unfair it may be) is at least *temporary*. But in your Ask made it sound like doing everything alone is your permanent fate in life, forever and ever more.
> Is this just Partner A's life forever anytime daytime help is needed, as the one with the more flexible work? ... Is it always the partner with sick days / with any flexibility that picks up the burden?
It's difficult to tell whether you feel like your fate is permanent because you are spiraling due to overwhelm, or because she has given you every reason to think you'll get saddled with all this work? Most likely it's a combination of both, but I wouldn't know. All I can think is that you need a hug from us on the internet, and some outside help for the complex tangle of issues you're dealing with.
In your Ask you really did say a lot of disrespectful things about Partner A. Adding the phrase "for some reason" after saying Partner A wants to go to the office, for instance. And, you said Partner A is "sacrificing career appearance and productivity" but in later comments you backpedaled on this saying Partner A only has 4-5 hours of work to do every day and even with the dog work added it's only 6 hours - which gives the impression of undercutting and/or entirely dismissing the original claim that Partner A's career and productivity has been affected at all. It's not easy to feel this way about oneself and one's situation. This is a LOT of complicated pain and stress for you to be carrying, bbqturtle. Again, all I can think is you need a hug (and help from someone in this pay grade).
You say now that this is all in your head and your partner hasn't done or said anything to make you think you deserve to be dismissed and devalued in this way. Maybe that is true, and maybe it really is the emotional upheaval of watching your dog go through so much that's causing you to spiral. But it could also be true that your partner has nonverbally, through her actions, given you the messages that you're picking up on and internalizing, and that in combination with your poor dog's issues has caused you to spiral.
We here on the internet aren't going to be able to figure out where this is coming from, for you. Get thee to a therapist - or two, because you also need a couples' therapist! With your own therapist, get some support dealing with your grief and overwhelm from what your dog is going through, and work on your self esteem maybe? And in couples' therapy, please try to figure out where your devastated feelings of being unsupported by your wife are coming from. This therapy suggestion may sound too big and complicated for you to consider practical, but you know, your Ask has been a very complicated story. There's a lot roiling under the surface. Therapy is SO EXACTLY the perfect tool for it, though! As with any good tool, it will likely make quick work of all these issues - you're probably looking at only a short stint in therapy, a few weeks or months, not years. I genuinely think therapy will be worth your while.
posted by MiraK at 3:13 AM on January 14 [2 favorites]
Any further advice for making those conversations pleasant, understanding, loving, and empathetic as the person that is feeling unappreciated / slightly unfair (I really do think my job is much easier) would be appreciated!
Definitely a good call to wait until vacation. You mention that a fair amount of this has been internal for you and your B has just started a new job and has no PTO. So I think I'd start with the circumstances have made you realize a few things. It may be helpful to emphasize that you realize with the new job etc things may have not have been able to play out much differently, but you're afraid of it becoming the status quo.
I also get the sense that you may feel a bit conflicted about some of this, so it may help to figure out how you want to balance things re:career vs home.
In my relationship, as the person with the more flexible job, sometimes it just is that way (picking up the burden). The flip side is that things aren't constantly needing to be attended to (for us), so I get to enjoy the benefits of the more flexible job more often than I have to use those benefits for us as a team.
Again, my situation is a little different, because we made some decisions together rather than it just happened that way and I don't take as many career dings. So your level of flexibility is probably less than mine, which should play a role in the calculus. But I think figuring out what you'd like to have as a balance and what some of the possible trade-offs are could help the conversation go more smoothly.
posted by ghost phoneme at 7:33 AM on January 14 [1 favorite]
Definitely a good call to wait until vacation. You mention that a fair amount of this has been internal for you and your B has just started a new job and has no PTO. So I think I'd start with the circumstances have made you realize a few things. It may be helpful to emphasize that you realize with the new job etc things may have not have been able to play out much differently, but you're afraid of it becoming the status quo.
I also get the sense that you may feel a bit conflicted about some of this, so it may help to figure out how you want to balance things re:career vs home.
In my relationship, as the person with the more flexible job, sometimes it just is that way (picking up the burden). The flip side is that things aren't constantly needing to be attended to (for us), so I get to enjoy the benefits of the more flexible job more often than I have to use those benefits for us as a team.
Again, my situation is a little different, because we made some decisions together rather than it just happened that way and I don't take as many career dings. So your level of flexibility is probably less than mine, which should play a role in the calculus. But I think figuring out what you'd like to have as a balance and what some of the possible trade-offs are could help the conversation go more smoothly.
posted by ghost phoneme at 7:33 AM on January 14 [1 favorite]
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Is this something Partner B thinks should change? I mean, if Partner A is actually damaging their career by not going in, it's not arbitrary to want to do so. If Partner A is damaging their career, that is something that needs to be negotiated before the two of them have kids. Otherwise, sadly it will be the one with the flexible schedule whose career suffers.
Traditionally another way to make up a labor gap is with money-- if e.g. the one who is never home is paying for some cleaning, childcare and so on. But this can also be a trap for whoever it is that is staying at home and providing labor, to the detriment of their career. It's very hard to avoid inequality in the long term.
It's good that you're thinking about these things now.
posted by BibiRose at 6:45 AM on January 11 [8 favorites]