online dating as an obese woman in NYC -- push through or give up?
April 5, 2024 12:13 AM Subscribe
[TW: weight and body issues]
I'm a 40-year-old "ethnic" obese woman living in NYC, single for ~7 years, and have started to date online this year. I'm struggling to meet suitable men despite being very successful in other areas of life and having very flexible criteria (swiping on other heavy people much larger than I am, short men, etc. from all walks of life). Those I have met have been unsuitable or inconsiderate to frankly awful and abusive people, many of whom have made a point of commenting on my fatness, mentioning that I'm not their "type" and other code for lack of attraction to my body. I'm wondering whether I should continue to subject myself to this or wait to jump back in once I've lost the weight?
I (cis, heterosexual ethnic woman of middle eastern descent) dropped out of the dating market for most of my 30s to care for a sick relative, moving to a small town and having zero romantic activity for most of my prime dating years. I became horribly depressed and gained a significant amount of weight, rapidly going from normal weight to morbidly obese (more than 100 lbs overweight). I see so many beautiful women my size or larger, but honestly I do not carry my weight well and have become romantically invisible to men in my social sphere. I don't even feel as respected at my job at this weight, and in my fancy affluent neighborhood full of glam women often barely feel human. With the help of a therapist I worked through a lot of my body issues, and on my 40th birthday in January of this year after moving to New York City I decided to get back on the dating apps (in my case OKCupid, which seems to be the least picture focused of all the options).
I swipe right on men of all races and ethnicities, short men, fat men (often quite a bit fatter than I am), unattractive men, extremely nerdy men, etc. as long as they are within a reasonable age range and sound intelligent and thoughtful. I'm friendly, well-read, PhD from a top school, a great job, lots of friends and a lot of hobbies, but in 4 months have been used/abused/discarded, met with a parade of totally unsuitable men who aren’t stable or well enough to be dating, or hurt by thoughtlessness: a guy who love bombed me, lied about everything, revealed he's addicted to hiring sex workers and ghosted me after insulting my body and giving me an STD; a seemingly sweet guy who became extremely pushy about sex early on, again insulted my looks, slept with me and ghosted me; a divorced dad who talked about his "naked" young daughter so much I considered reporting him to an authority; a software engineer who couldn’t figure out how to order or pay for pizza during lunch and didn't thank me after I paid for everything; and so many other gut punch baffling moments that have made me feel utterly undesirable, worthless, stupid for trying and thinking anybody remotely functional could want me. What sent me over the edge was when one of the kindest men I've met online who'd asked me out for a second date cancelled that date WEEKS after setting the date stating we don’t have a romantic connection/spark/whatever (which reads to me as no attraction, perfectly fine, but why not decide this before asking me out yet again? so bizarre and hurtful, as if he looked at my pics one last time and decided he couldn't bring himself to do THAT again).
I know that even conventionally attractive fit people can struggle online these days and I can't know that my weight is really the problem here, but Im wondering whether it is simply masochistic to bother dating at my weight, especially in a weight-conscious city full of as many attractive women as NYC? I've recently lost 30 lbs and ideally I'd lose the rest of the weight before jumping back on but I’m afraid to wait too much longer since I’ve turned 40, I’m so lonely and romance starved, and I’m not getting any younger. I've tried to work some of this out with my therapist but I feel her advice is horribly dated and irrelevant, and that as a very thin attractive white married woman who hasn't experienced the apps firsthand she can't really empathize with my plight well enough to be constructive in her advice.
I (cis, heterosexual ethnic woman of middle eastern descent) dropped out of the dating market for most of my 30s to care for a sick relative, moving to a small town and having zero romantic activity for most of my prime dating years. I became horribly depressed and gained a significant amount of weight, rapidly going from normal weight to morbidly obese (more than 100 lbs overweight). I see so many beautiful women my size or larger, but honestly I do not carry my weight well and have become romantically invisible to men in my social sphere. I don't even feel as respected at my job at this weight, and in my fancy affluent neighborhood full of glam women often barely feel human. With the help of a therapist I worked through a lot of my body issues, and on my 40th birthday in January of this year after moving to New York City I decided to get back on the dating apps (in my case OKCupid, which seems to be the least picture focused of all the options).
I swipe right on men of all races and ethnicities, short men, fat men (often quite a bit fatter than I am), unattractive men, extremely nerdy men, etc. as long as they are within a reasonable age range and sound intelligent and thoughtful. I'm friendly, well-read, PhD from a top school, a great job, lots of friends and a lot of hobbies, but in 4 months have been used/abused/discarded, met with a parade of totally unsuitable men who aren’t stable or well enough to be dating, or hurt by thoughtlessness: a guy who love bombed me, lied about everything, revealed he's addicted to hiring sex workers and ghosted me after insulting my body and giving me an STD; a seemingly sweet guy who became extremely pushy about sex early on, again insulted my looks, slept with me and ghosted me; a divorced dad who talked about his "naked" young daughter so much I considered reporting him to an authority; a software engineer who couldn’t figure out how to order or pay for pizza during lunch and didn't thank me after I paid for everything; and so many other gut punch baffling moments that have made me feel utterly undesirable, worthless, stupid for trying and thinking anybody remotely functional could want me. What sent me over the edge was when one of the kindest men I've met online who'd asked me out for a second date cancelled that date WEEKS after setting the date stating we don’t have a romantic connection/spark/whatever (which reads to me as no attraction, perfectly fine, but why not decide this before asking me out yet again? so bizarre and hurtful, as if he looked at my pics one last time and decided he couldn't bring himself to do THAT again).
I know that even conventionally attractive fit people can struggle online these days and I can't know that my weight is really the problem here, but Im wondering whether it is simply masochistic to bother dating at my weight, especially in a weight-conscious city full of as many attractive women as NYC? I've recently lost 30 lbs and ideally I'd lose the rest of the weight before jumping back on but I’m afraid to wait too much longer since I’ve turned 40, I’m so lonely and romance starved, and I’m not getting any younger. I've tried to work some of this out with my therapist but I feel her advice is horribly dated and irrelevant, and that as a very thin attractive white married woman who hasn't experienced the apps firsthand she can't really empathize with my plight well enough to be constructive in her advice.
I had a lot of similar experiences when I was living in a huge city full of single men in their 30s and 40s. I am now a small fat, but at the time I was at the top end of straight size. IME, commenting on your size is a thing terrible men do just to be mean and have a sense of power, regardless of how big or small you are in real life. If it weren't your size it would be something else, like your intellect, clothing choices etc.
For me, that experience gave me an idea of what red flags to look for on dating profiles and first dates. I became a lot more selective about who I met up with or went on a second date with. Sex was not even on the table until he proved he is a decent human, which could take a while. This weeds out the riff raff pretty well and gives you more time to enjoy NYC on your own. That was huge for me, not letting the douchebags take my joy and finding other ways to meet new people. Eventually I met the right person, via an app. So I would say it's worth pursuing, but don't let it take up so much of your energy.
posted by guessthis at 3:20 AM on April 5 [18 favorites]
For me, that experience gave me an idea of what red flags to look for on dating profiles and first dates. I became a lot more selective about who I met up with or went on a second date with. Sex was not even on the table until he proved he is a decent human, which could take a while. This weeds out the riff raff pretty well and gives you more time to enjoy NYC on your own. That was huge for me, not letting the douchebags take my joy and finding other ways to meet new people. Eventually I met the right person, via an app. So I would say it's worth pursuing, but don't let it take up so much of your energy.
posted by guessthis at 3:20 AM on April 5 [18 favorites]
I'm wondering whether I should continue to subject myself to this or wait to jump back in once I've lost the weight?
Hi, I'm a 50+ male, dating a similarly aged woman and both of us are heavy. We met on Bumble and have been together coming up on a year and half.
One of the things that initially impressed me about her is that she included a full body photo in her profile, to let suitors know how she physically looked, so that there would be no surprises. She said that weeded out a lot creeps or people who not attracted to her, which is the goal.
It's not clear if you've done something similar in your profile, but if you haven't , try it. Ultimately you look how you look and looks are part of dating. You want to attract people who are attracted to you or at the very least, not bothered by your body shape.
All this is to say I don't think you should stop dating until you reach your goal weight, whatever it is. You're not too old and aren't running out of time. Be who you are right now and you'll attract those who think you are wonderful.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:19 AM on April 5 [43 favorites]
Hi, I'm a 50+ male, dating a similarly aged woman and both of us are heavy. We met on Bumble and have been together coming up on a year and half.
One of the things that initially impressed me about her is that she included a full body photo in her profile, to let suitors know how she physically looked, so that there would be no surprises. She said that weeded out a lot creeps or people who not attracted to her, which is the goal.
It's not clear if you've done something similar in your profile, but if you haven't , try it. Ultimately you look how you look and looks are part of dating. You want to attract people who are attracted to you or at the very least, not bothered by your body shape.
All this is to say I don't think you should stop dating until you reach your goal weight, whatever it is. You're not too old and aren't running out of time. Be who you are right now and you'll attract those who think you are wonderful.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:19 AM on April 5 [43 favorites]
I don't know whether you should give up on online dating entirely, but it sounds like you should give up on individual guys sooner, like at the first vaguely orangey-pinkish flag. And then, once you've given up on them, see if you can let go of caring about what they think/do!
Raise your standards - not necessarily for swiping but definitely for continuing to chat and for setting dates. A lot of the people on dating apps, especially the ones spending a lot of time on dating apps long-term, are weirdos. If you're connecting with weird desperate guys on OkCupid, it's not because those are the only people who could possibly be attracted to you, it's because the active OkCupid user population has a disproportionate number of weird desperate guys.
Basically: be ready to be happily surprised if someone turns out to be cool, but go in with the assumption that these guys are going to let you down and suck, and gently cut them loose at the first sign of sucking (at least until you feel you've actually gotten to know them, ideally via multiple in-person meetings - obviously everyone is going to do something that sucks eventually).
Also, be gentle with yourself. I get why the guy who cancelled the date sent you over the edge but it's also 100% possible, even likely, that it had nothing to do with you - it could have been that he met his soulmate in the weeks between your first and second date, or he was in the middle of a crisis that he didn't want to discuss with someone he'd only met once, or he just got tired of online dating and quit. Lack of romantic connection =/= you are unattractive. Rejection hurts! But being rejected doesn't mean there is anything inherently wrong with you.
FWIW, although I absolutely do not doubt that your weight raises the difficulty level here, I hear similar stories of meeting nothing but losers and assholes (and asshole losers) from even my cutest littlest 20s and 30s friends. Personally, a long time ago, after a string of lackluster dates, I swore that I would rather be single for the rest of my life than go on another OkCupid date. Then I met my husband offline, then he died, and once in a while I download an app and do some swiping but so far I have kept that vow because jeez, there are a lot of turds out there.
posted by mskyle at 4:47 AM on April 5 [25 favorites]
Raise your standards - not necessarily for swiping but definitely for continuing to chat and for setting dates. A lot of the people on dating apps, especially the ones spending a lot of time on dating apps long-term, are weirdos. If you're connecting with weird desperate guys on OkCupid, it's not because those are the only people who could possibly be attracted to you, it's because the active OkCupid user population has a disproportionate number of weird desperate guys.
Basically: be ready to be happily surprised if someone turns out to be cool, but go in with the assumption that these guys are going to let you down and suck, and gently cut them loose at the first sign of sucking (at least until you feel you've actually gotten to know them, ideally via multiple in-person meetings - obviously everyone is going to do something that sucks eventually).
Also, be gentle with yourself. I get why the guy who cancelled the date sent you over the edge but it's also 100% possible, even likely, that it had nothing to do with you - it could have been that he met his soulmate in the weeks between your first and second date, or he was in the middle of a crisis that he didn't want to discuss with someone he'd only met once, or he just got tired of online dating and quit. Lack of romantic connection =/= you are unattractive. Rejection hurts! But being rejected doesn't mean there is anything inherently wrong with you.
FWIW, although I absolutely do not doubt that your weight raises the difficulty level here, I hear similar stories of meeting nothing but losers and assholes (and asshole losers) from even my cutest littlest 20s and 30s friends. Personally, a long time ago, after a string of lackluster dates, I swore that I would rather be single for the rest of my life than go on another OkCupid date. Then I met my husband offline, then he died, and once in a while I download an app and do some swiping but so far I have kept that vow because jeez, there are a lot of turds out there.
posted by mskyle at 4:47 AM on April 5 [25 favorites]
My #1 dating advice is to make yourself as YOURSELF as possible on your profile. Like Brandon said above, post those pictures of you doing things in your fat body. BE opinionated. Share your weird hobbies. BE PICKY. You do NOT want mass appeal, because the masses are garbage. You want to be very narrowly appealing, because your success rate will be higher with people who are already excited by YOU. Not some whittled down version of you. In short, stop breaking yourself into bite sized pieces. Stay whole and let them choke.
For example, I've buzzed my hair down to nothing several times, and who knows, I may do it again at any moment. So my dating profile always contains a pic of me bald. Yeah I'll get messages from men calling me an unhot fat dyke or whatever, but I go on dates with men who wouldn't care at all and are happy to be with a woman with her own autonomy.
I am not in any way discounting the additional difficulty you have by being a minority ethnicity and overweight. These things absolutely make it harder to online date, no question. I will also say that your specific date experiences you've shared don't sound especially unusual to me, even to experiences shared by the conventionally attractive, white, not-fat women I know. Many men are just awful.
FWIW, I used to date very successfully and often (okcupid) then I took a long break after the 2016 election because I felt like if I had to listen to one more man share his opinion on something I was going to actually die. Then covid. Anyway, once I was ready to date again I tried Hinge, rage quit it, and found my now boyfriend in a week on Bumble. Results not typical but for me at least Bumble was the preferred app experience. Okcupid isn't anything what it used to be.
posted by phunniemee at 5:05 AM on April 5 [37 favorites]
For example, I've buzzed my hair down to nothing several times, and who knows, I may do it again at any moment. So my dating profile always contains a pic of me bald. Yeah I'll get messages from men calling me an unhot fat dyke or whatever, but I go on dates with men who wouldn't care at all and are happy to be with a woman with her own autonomy.
I am not in any way discounting the additional difficulty you have by being a minority ethnicity and overweight. These things absolutely make it harder to online date, no question. I will also say that your specific date experiences you've shared don't sound especially unusual to me, even to experiences shared by the conventionally attractive, white, not-fat women I know. Many men are just awful.
FWIW, I used to date very successfully and often (okcupid) then I took a long break after the 2016 election because I felt like if I had to listen to one more man share his opinion on something I was going to actually die. Then covid. Anyway, once I was ready to date again I tried Hinge, rage quit it, and found my now boyfriend in a week on Bumble. Results not typical but for me at least Bumble was the preferred app experience. Okcupid isn't anything what it used to be.
posted by phunniemee at 5:05 AM on April 5 [37 favorites]
This sounds like a LOT of dates for four months, and it reminds me of myself in my early 20s, when I figured “this is a numbers game, I NEED to be going on 2-3 dates with different people every week until it hits.” But that was a miserable process that did not yield any lasting results and made me feel like crap.
Honestly I would recommend spending a few months being EXTREMELY fucking picky with who you go out with. It sounds like you’re in a place of “I am less desirable so I have to pick guys who are also less desirable” and then surprise surprise, those guys suck.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:11 AM on April 5 [22 favorites]
Honestly I would recommend spending a few months being EXTREMELY fucking picky with who you go out with. It sounds like you’re in a place of “I am less desirable so I have to pick guys who are also less desirable” and then surprise surprise, those guys suck.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:11 AM on April 5 [22 favorites]
Oh man I missed that you’re only on OKCupid…
Ok here’s the thing, I’m in my late 30s in NYC and the ONLY people I know who still use OKCupid are exclusively using it to look for poly sex partners. And even my poly friends prefer Feeld now. The general perception among my peers is that OKC is a wasteland. You really should try some of the newer apps.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:17 AM on April 5 [12 favorites]
Ok here’s the thing, I’m in my late 30s in NYC and the ONLY people I know who still use OKCupid are exclusively using it to look for poly sex partners. And even my poly friends prefer Feeld now. The general perception among my peers is that OKC is a wasteland. You really should try some of the newer apps.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:17 AM on April 5 [12 favorites]
I'll add to the chorus that the overwhelming majority of men on dating apps will treat women like garbage regardless of what they look like. This was my experience using a variety of apps (Hinge, Tinder, OK Cupid, Match, Feeld) on & off for ~8 years as a thin and conventionally attractive woman living in big cities. But I definitely see my fat friends on the receiving end of much higher rates of dehumanizing and abusive behavior from men on apps, so much so that many of them have given up trying.*
My only practical advice is to avoid apps that can anyone can use for free. In my experience, adding a financial barrier helps to weed out some of the guys who can get casual sex for free on Tinder and Hinge. I found my current partner on Match, which is basically unusable without paying the subscription fee.
*Tomorrow I am going to a baby shower for my lovely fat friend who met her lovely fat husband online, so it's not entirely a wasteland!
posted by massa intermedia at 6:30 AM on April 5 [2 favorites]
My only practical advice is to avoid apps that can anyone can use for free. In my experience, adding a financial barrier helps to weed out some of the guys who can get casual sex for free on Tinder and Hinge. I found my current partner on Match, which is basically unusable without paying the subscription fee.
*Tomorrow I am going to a baby shower for my lovely fat friend who met her lovely fat husband online, so it's not entirely a wasteland!
posted by massa intermedia at 6:30 AM on April 5 [2 favorites]
Just gonna throw this out there: have you considered using special-interest apps? There are lots of men in their 40s who are really in to large women and aren't interested in skinny women at all. But for various reasons (eg weird thin idolatry as the norm), this is considered a fetish or kink in US society, so people who might think your body is awesome the way it is now are often on kink/fetish/special interest sites. This is to basically second Brandon Blatcher above, just with additional venues.
(no personal experience, but a friend in a vaguely similar situation to yours reported finding some nice people on fetlife and/or adult friend finder. Despite the sex-forward framing, many people are there to date too.)
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:23 AM on April 5 [2 favorites]
(no personal experience, but a friend in a vaguely similar situation to yours reported finding some nice people on fetlife and/or adult friend finder. Despite the sex-forward framing, many people are there to date too.)
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:23 AM on April 5 [2 favorites]
I think you've gotten great advice already, so this is mainly affirming what's above:
-You are dating too much. I mean, some people genuinely like dating, but for most people dating online does indeed suck most of the time, and it is often energy draining. Whenever you feel like you're feeling currently, it's time for a break.
- Be pickier - at least half the job of online dating is weeding out the bad matches. I know the advice is generally "don't spend too much chatting online before meeting up in person" and while I think that's generally true I think some people can take it too far in the other direction. A bit of chatting after you match can help weed people out. And have the first date happen in the day time without alcohol - that should further weed out some guys just looking for a hook up.
-Have a flattering but honest full portrait photo - people don't like being surprised, even if they're open to your body type. Ask a friend if you need help getting such a photo.
-I can't tell if these losers are insulting you before or after sex, but don't sleep with anyone who insults you about anything, whether it's your looks or intellect or whatever.
-Also find ways to put yourself out there in real life. Let your friends know they should introduce you to any good single men they know, look into what singles events are happening, and just regularly show up to an activity (volunteering, hobby) which you'll enjoy regardless if it results in meeting someone.
posted by coffeecat at 7:38 AM on April 5 [4 favorites]
-You are dating too much. I mean, some people genuinely like dating, but for most people dating online does indeed suck most of the time, and it is often energy draining. Whenever you feel like you're feeling currently, it's time for a break.
- Be pickier - at least half the job of online dating is weeding out the bad matches. I know the advice is generally "don't spend too much chatting online before meeting up in person" and while I think that's generally true I think some people can take it too far in the other direction. A bit of chatting after you match can help weed people out. And have the first date happen in the day time without alcohol - that should further weed out some guys just looking for a hook up.
-Have a flattering but honest full portrait photo - people don't like being surprised, even if they're open to your body type. Ask a friend if you need help getting such a photo.
-I can't tell if these losers are insulting you before or after sex, but don't sleep with anyone who insults you about anything, whether it's your looks or intellect or whatever.
-Also find ways to put yourself out there in real life. Let your friends know they should introduce you to any good single men they know, look into what singles events are happening, and just regularly show up to an activity (volunteering, hobby) which you'll enjoy regardless if it results in meeting someone.
posted by coffeecat at 7:38 AM on April 5 [4 favorites]
If a partner is something you really want, I don't think you should put it on hold until you're "thin enough." So many fat women lose decades to waiting to be "thin enough" and it's a fucking tragedy. Also, as you've already noticed, NYC is a very competitive dating scene and being just a "normal" weight barely cuts it (though it will, unfortunately, improve your social existence in other ways you've pointed out).
That said, I get that you're trying to be open-minded and flexible, but it sounds like you need to be more willing to recognize those red flags as they pop up. You can't avoid the occasional sociopath, but most guys just aren't that subtle, especially when it comes to "lower-status" women. They're either too mean or too nice. You need to be willing to say, "Okay, sorry, this isn't going to work, good luck in your future endeavors," mid-first date if necessary ("you're not really my type" would be an instant walk-out for me). Definitely hold off on the sex until later on; this will help weed out guys who think a fat woman will be a quick no-awkward-obligations-after bang. None of this will change men, but it will save you time and (it sounds like) some of the bruised feelings. (In case you haven't been...condoms! Not optional, regardless of other forms of birth control you might be using! Conveniently enough, another way of weeding out the assholes!)
So...it's hard. I don't know that there's a way to make it less hard to accomplish (though I would work any special-interest groups you're in, any ethnic affinity groups, hard, since the preexisting social ties help filter for personality and reduce the odds of a guy just looking for someone to fuck that he doesn't have to respect), just to try not to overshoot on the vulnerability on an activity that's rough for almost everyone. Welcome back to the city!
(If it matters, I've been on the top straight/"small fat" boundary most of my adulthood, but in NYC, things get [more] tough practically at size 10.)
posted by praemunire at 7:42 AM on April 5 [5 favorites]
That said, I get that you're trying to be open-minded and flexible, but it sounds like you need to be more willing to recognize those red flags as they pop up. You can't avoid the occasional sociopath, but most guys just aren't that subtle, especially when it comes to "lower-status" women. They're either too mean or too nice. You need to be willing to say, "Okay, sorry, this isn't going to work, good luck in your future endeavors," mid-first date if necessary ("you're not really my type" would be an instant walk-out for me). Definitely hold off on the sex until later on; this will help weed out guys who think a fat woman will be a quick no-awkward-obligations-after bang. None of this will change men, but it will save you time and (it sounds like) some of the bruised feelings. (In case you haven't been...condoms! Not optional, regardless of other forms of birth control you might be using! Conveniently enough, another way of weeding out the assholes!)
So...it's hard. I don't know that there's a way to make it less hard to accomplish (though I would work any special-interest groups you're in, any ethnic affinity groups, hard, since the preexisting social ties help filter for personality and reduce the odds of a guy just looking for someone to fuck that he doesn't have to respect), just to try not to overshoot on the vulnerability on an activity that's rough for almost everyone. Welcome back to the city!
(If it matters, I've been on the top straight/"small fat" boundary most of my adulthood, but in NYC, things get [more] tough practically at size 10.)
posted by praemunire at 7:42 AM on April 5 [5 favorites]
You might look into the Burned Haystack Dating Method. There are active Facebook and Instagram communities focused on it. The basic idea is to stop compromising -- about who you are and/or what you want. There's a ton of information in the groups, loads of support, and information about implementing the method, which is focused on supporting/helping women find real long-term partners through the apps. The method hits on a lot of the things in your question.
posted by OrangeDisk at 7:49 AM on April 5 [9 favorites]
posted by OrangeDisk at 7:49 AM on April 5 [9 favorites]
Hey. I'm really sorry you've been treated so shabbily. I was growling expletives under my breath while reading your Ask. I agree with some of the comments above. Although nothing makes any of it easy. Or fatphobia/racism/ageism any less real. But the advantage to online dating (I met my spouse on OKC back in the day) is that you can be picky. And if a person make it through your initial screen and then show their true colors. Believe them the first time and walk away. Truly you deserve better than that noise. Ultimately, confidence is sexy. Even if you're faking it. And having real pics of the real you doing real things should signal to the right men, even if you have to wade through a bunch of trash messages to get there. You don't need to be thinner to deserve to be loved and if your therapist is intimating that, that's...not great. Wishing you luck and love. Bon Courage!
posted by jeszac at 7:50 AM on April 5 [3 favorites]
posted by jeszac at 7:50 AM on April 5 [3 favorites]
Yikes, the suggestion to opt into apps that are essentially predicated on you being wanted specifically for your fatness strikes me as very bad advice. You sound like a catch. Do you know that about yourself? Stay on the main apps; don't put your life off. I promise there are people who will see and appreciate you as a whole person.
But yes, the OKC that once was is dead and gone. It's a tragedy and nothing out there now compares to what it used to be, but this is the landscape. Try Hinge/Bumble/Tinder. They will still probably suck for the most part because that is the nature of dating apps in 2024, and because app dating when you're not thin, white, and/or young is empirically harder--and because dating in NYC is, as I understand it, its own special hell for everybody--but it's worth a shot. I say keep going, and also take breaks when you feel demoralized or otherwise tired of it.
And +1 to full-body photos, as uncomfortable as that can feel. I just listened this week to the podcast "Weight For It," which focuses on the host, a straight cis black man in his 30s, as he navigates his feelings around weight, worth, and desirability. It's a really good series and I recommend it for you in general, but also it comes to mind because there's discussion between a number of fat people of how they date, and at one point I remember audio of this woman working on her profile and sincerely saying "I don't know if I look fat enough in this picture!" - the idea being that rather than doing the thing we've all been taught and trying to present as slim a self as possible, she really wanted to be clear up front about what she looked like so her time was less likely to be wasted. I have a strong preference for meeting people through my regular life in part for this reason, although meeting people at 40+ is also difficult regardless. When I have been on the apps, my approach has definitely been in line with the advice here to be very true to who you are and raise standards/become pickier, general advice to cast a wide net be damned. Remember that these people are auditioning to be your partner, and being into you is the bare minimum, not something that wins anyone a prize.
posted by wormtales at 8:13 AM on April 5 [8 favorites]
But yes, the OKC that once was is dead and gone. It's a tragedy and nothing out there now compares to what it used to be, but this is the landscape. Try Hinge/Bumble/Tinder. They will still probably suck for the most part because that is the nature of dating apps in 2024, and because app dating when you're not thin, white, and/or young is empirically harder--and because dating in NYC is, as I understand it, its own special hell for everybody--but it's worth a shot. I say keep going, and also take breaks when you feel demoralized or otherwise tired of it.
And +1 to full-body photos, as uncomfortable as that can feel. I just listened this week to the podcast "Weight For It," which focuses on the host, a straight cis black man in his 30s, as he navigates his feelings around weight, worth, and desirability. It's a really good series and I recommend it for you in general, but also it comes to mind because there's discussion between a number of fat people of how they date, and at one point I remember audio of this woman working on her profile and sincerely saying "I don't know if I look fat enough in this picture!" - the idea being that rather than doing the thing we've all been taught and trying to present as slim a self as possible, she really wanted to be clear up front about what she looked like so her time was less likely to be wasted. I have a strong preference for meeting people through my regular life in part for this reason, although meeting people at 40+ is also difficult regardless. When I have been on the apps, my approach has definitely been in line with the advice here to be very true to who you are and raise standards/become pickier, general advice to cast a wide net be damned. Remember that these people are auditioning to be your partner, and being into you is the bare minimum, not something that wins anyone a prize.
posted by wormtales at 8:13 AM on April 5 [8 favorites]
I know this is an easy thing to say and not an easy thing to do, but please work on cultivating body neutrality. It will be so helpful for you.
If we were all gray amorphous blobs, think about how much you have to offer. You say you're a successful woman, I bet you are! What does success mean to you, how do you measure it? Write all that down, look at how well you're doing. From what you've shared here it's obvious you're also a caring person with empathy, those qualities also have value. You have value! Write all of this down, everything in your life that you are proud of and good at.
Again, we're all amorphous gray blobs here. When you're dating, look for a blob who deserves you and all that you have to offer. Your blob should be as capable and successful as you are, if in slightly different ways.
How we look changes constantly, and sometimes changes all at once. We gain weight, we lose weight, we age and get wrinkly, we get sober and hydrated, we get in a devastating accident and lose an arm, we get cancer and lose all our hair, we live long enough to transplant our brains into robots. Bodies are temporary and fickle things. You are more than your body.
And the only people you accept to date better be good enough for everything that you are.
posted by phunniemee at 9:00 AM on April 5 [12 favorites]
If we were all gray amorphous blobs, think about how much you have to offer. You say you're a successful woman, I bet you are! What does success mean to you, how do you measure it? Write all that down, look at how well you're doing. From what you've shared here it's obvious you're also a caring person with empathy, those qualities also have value. You have value! Write all of this down, everything in your life that you are proud of and good at.
Again, we're all amorphous gray blobs here. When you're dating, look for a blob who deserves you and all that you have to offer. Your blob should be as capable and successful as you are, if in slightly different ways.
How we look changes constantly, and sometimes changes all at once. We gain weight, we lose weight, we age and get wrinkly, we get sober and hydrated, we get in a devastating accident and lose an arm, we get cancer and lose all our hair, we live long enough to transplant our brains into robots. Bodies are temporary and fickle things. You are more than your body.
And the only people you accept to date better be good enough for everything that you are.
posted by phunniemee at 9:00 AM on April 5 [12 favorites]
Seconding Burned Haystack Dating Method. I recommend you join the Facebook Group and/or follow Jennie Young's Instagram; it'll arm you with tools and confidence about approaching online dating, and holding out for a good match.
Similarly, dating coach Erika Ettin on Instagram also gives great advice about online dating.
posted by Ardea alba at 11:51 AM on April 5
Similarly, dating coach Erika Ettin on Instagram also gives great advice about online dating.
posted by Ardea alba at 11:51 AM on April 5
I'm sorry about all the BS you've experienced. I'm not on the dating circuit but I would recommend not holding out until you lose weight. I tried that, lost it, gained it back... There are a bunch of hormonal and whatnot things at play. (If you don't listen to Maintenance Phase podcast, they explain it way better than I can.) I'd aim to find someone who will like you in all your forms because who knows what life will bring any of us.
posted by slidell at 11:59 AM on April 5 [3 favorites]
posted by slidell at 11:59 AM on April 5 [3 favorites]
You might take a look at the Burned Haystack Dating Method.
BHDM uses discourse analysis techniques to help women be really really discerning about who to spend time on on dating apps. I think it might help you weed out those terrible dudes before they waste your time.
I have mixed feelings about the method and I'm mostly just observing the "discourse" in the BHDM FB group as a single woman on hiatus from dating. But it might be worth looking into.
Take good care of yourself!
posted by pantarei70 at 2:51 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
BHDM uses discourse analysis techniques to help women be really really discerning about who to spend time on on dating apps. I think it might help you weed out those terrible dudes before they waste your time.
I have mixed feelings about the method and I'm mostly just observing the "discourse" in the BHDM FB group as a single woman on hiatus from dating. But it might be worth looking into.
Take good care of yourself!
posted by pantarei70 at 2:51 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
Two things I found helpful:
I started building a community based on the likelihood that I would be single for the rest of my life. I wasn't RESIGNING myself to that, but it was a possibility, and I wanted emotional support, activity partners, and people to help with home maintenance regardless. So I put more effort into making and keeping friends, figuring out how to outsource work I couldn't do alone, etc. It made my life better and made me more resilient to the unpleasantness of dating.
I realized that not being up for dating in a given month, due to disillusionment or a series of bad dates or just being busy, didn't mean not being up for dating EVER AGAIN. I took lots of breaks and only got back to it when I felt up for it. If I started finding it depressing, I stopped again.
posted by metasarah at 2:51 PM on April 5 [6 favorites]
I started building a community based on the likelihood that I would be single for the rest of my life. I wasn't RESIGNING myself to that, but it was a possibility, and I wanted emotional support, activity partners, and people to help with home maintenance regardless. So I put more effort into making and keeping friends, figuring out how to outsource work I couldn't do alone, etc. It made my life better and made me more resilient to the unpleasantness of dating.
I realized that not being up for dating in a given month, due to disillusionment or a series of bad dates or just being busy, didn't mean not being up for dating EVER AGAIN. I took lots of breaks and only got back to it when I felt up for it. If I started finding it depressing, I stopped again.
posted by metasarah at 2:51 PM on April 5 [6 favorites]
To answer your specific question, I don't think it makes sense to put off dating until you're at a different weight, and it in fact makes me want to fight everyone who has made you feel this way.
What stood out to me in your post is that you don't seem to have anyone around you who understands what it's like to be a plus-sized person. You feel alienated from the people around you, and not even your therapist understands this aspect of your life. (Side note: it wouldn't be an overreaction to find a new therapist who can better support you.) It makes sense that this has left you feeling incredibly lonely and made you question what is reasonable for you to expect from others.
I'd like to echo above advice about trying Hinge/Bumble and making sure your pictures emphasize rather than hide your body -- but I think that putting your energy into social connections outside of dating might counterintuitively be the surer path to a richer romantic life. I encourage you to look up events and meetup groups for fat women, not from a fetishizing perspective but from a peer connection perspective: fat hiking/biking groups, craft nights, clothing swaps, etc. Other fat women are your best resource for swapping dating advice (and horror stories), validating your experience, and normalizing being unapologetic about your weight. The more women you see who look like you and have happy lives with lovely partners, the more you'll actually believe that there are people out there who want to love you as you are -- and since social groups self-select, you'll be around more people who aren't fatphobic so you'll be more likely to meet someone who's into you.
posted by Pwoink at 3:15 PM on April 5 [8 favorites]
What stood out to me in your post is that you don't seem to have anyone around you who understands what it's like to be a plus-sized person. You feel alienated from the people around you, and not even your therapist understands this aspect of your life. (Side note: it wouldn't be an overreaction to find a new therapist who can better support you.) It makes sense that this has left you feeling incredibly lonely and made you question what is reasonable for you to expect from others.
I'd like to echo above advice about trying Hinge/Bumble and making sure your pictures emphasize rather than hide your body -- but I think that putting your energy into social connections outside of dating might counterintuitively be the surer path to a richer romantic life. I encourage you to look up events and meetup groups for fat women, not from a fetishizing perspective but from a peer connection perspective: fat hiking/biking groups, craft nights, clothing swaps, etc. Other fat women are your best resource for swapping dating advice (and horror stories), validating your experience, and normalizing being unapologetic about your weight. The more women you see who look like you and have happy lives with lovely partners, the more you'll actually believe that there are people out there who want to love you as you are -- and since social groups self-select, you'll be around more people who aren't fatphobic so you'll be more likely to meet someone who's into you.
posted by Pwoink at 3:15 PM on April 5 [8 favorites]
Following along from the others' advice about presenting yourself as yourself, a close friend of mine, after a string of online dates ranging from distasteful to disastrous, wrote a new ad which I believe started out with "Feminist writer seeks, etc." Only one man answered, but he was the right one, and they were together for 22 years (and married last fall). He died in January, suddenly, from heart failure, which I could call devastating but words are feeble instruments when talking about this... the point being: be your real self, and let the person who will adore you show up.
posted by jokeefe at 6:50 PM on April 5 [4 favorites]
posted by jokeefe at 6:50 PM on April 5 [4 favorites]
Friends tell me OKCupid sucks and that Bumble is better. I've had two friends that have met people on small, specialized dating sites-- one married, the other in a LD FWB relationship she is happy with. One other friend has found a friend. Not sure if they're FWB, but not my business. They get together because they have a common interest (motorcycle trips) and couldn't find anyone else to share that interest with--they're both older and didn't want to drink and party, drive fast and long, or hang with a bunch of young guys. Shared interests brought them together with their guys.
One friend said she wrote in her profile something along the line that if they couldn't be friends, they wouldn't be lovers. Apparently, it weeded out some of the creeps. But not, of course. Because there are a lot of creeps out there.
Good luck.
posted by BlueHorse at 6:59 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
One friend said she wrote in her profile something along the line that if they couldn't be friends, they wouldn't be lovers. Apparently, it weeded out some of the creeps. But not, of course. Because there are a lot of creeps out there.
Good luck.
posted by BlueHorse at 6:59 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
I could have sworn that at some point we had some pretty thorough Ask threads about red and green flags. I haven't tracked them down yet, but I found a few other links that might be useful.
This Captain Awkward post and the following comments.
This Pervocracy post linked from the CA post comments.
Wait - here's a red flag post from Ask.
It seems to me that a key challenge in dating is to enjoy all the big feelings while keeping your feet on the ground and remembering what you want. Being aware of the signs that a potential partner has genuine respect and affection for you, and also aware of the aspects of their character that are clues as to what kind of partner they will be.
As a side note - an old friend's dad once recommended that a great date early in a relationship would be shopping for and putting together a bookcase or fan or something like that. You get to see how you work together and how they react when things get frustrating.
posted by bunderful at 10:33 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]
This Captain Awkward post and the following comments.
This Pervocracy post linked from the CA post comments.
Wait - here's a red flag post from Ask.
It seems to me that a key challenge in dating is to enjoy all the big feelings while keeping your feet on the ground and remembering what you want. Being aware of the signs that a potential partner has genuine respect and affection for you, and also aware of the aspects of their character that are clues as to what kind of partner they will be.
As a side note - an old friend's dad once recommended that a great date early in a relationship would be shopping for and putting together a bookcase or fan or something like that. You get to see how you work together and how they react when things get frustrating.
posted by bunderful at 10:33 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]
I'll add to the chorus that the overwhelming majority of men on dating apps will treat women like garbage regardless of what they look like.
This, exactly. And there are a lot of repeat-offender predators who hang around on dating apps and are poisoning the goddamn water. I'm a fat lady around your age who stayed with my abusive garbage husband for several years too long in part because I was afraid I could not date as a fat lady. Literally, as soon as that was done and I started looking, I had a lot of options and am now happily long term partnered to a man who thinks my fat body is delightful. I am confused by it all the time. I am not sure he even notices when I gain or lose weight. Here is the thing though: I did not touch a fucking dating app and I credit that for my success. I am convinced dating apps are a living death trap for women.
Here are the things I did:
1) Got good clothes with thick material. Folds make clothing look weird; thick materialed clothes don't show skin folds in the same way that thin materialed clothing does. I will never go back to thin material again. Message me if you want details about what I mean.
2) Non-sexually flirted. All the time. Everywhere. In person. If I saw someone who looked nice, or fun, I would chat with them and interact with them. Then find a way to bring my single status into the conversation. If they wanted to do something about it, there it was! If not, it was inoffensive, they got to think of me as fun, and I got to practice!
3) I suppose I had (after reading this) a real world version of the Burned Haystack method. I decided I had wasted long enough hiding myself and I wasn't going to do it anymore. Let yourself shine. It's attractive!
posted by corb at 7:58 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]
This, exactly. And there are a lot of repeat-offender predators who hang around on dating apps and are poisoning the goddamn water. I'm a fat lady around your age who stayed with my abusive garbage husband for several years too long in part because I was afraid I could not date as a fat lady. Literally, as soon as that was done and I started looking, I had a lot of options and am now happily long term partnered to a man who thinks my fat body is delightful. I am confused by it all the time. I am not sure he even notices when I gain or lose weight. Here is the thing though: I did not touch a fucking dating app and I credit that for my success. I am convinced dating apps are a living death trap for women.
Here are the things I did:
1) Got good clothes with thick material. Folds make clothing look weird; thick materialed clothes don't show skin folds in the same way that thin materialed clothing does. I will never go back to thin material again. Message me if you want details about what I mean.
2) Non-sexually flirted. All the time. Everywhere. In person. If I saw someone who looked nice, or fun, I would chat with them and interact with them. Then find a way to bring my single status into the conversation. If they wanted to do something about it, there it was! If not, it was inoffensive, they got to think of me as fun, and I got to practice!
3) I suppose I had (after reading this) a real world version of the Burned Haystack method. I decided I had wasted long enough hiding myself and I wasn't going to do it anymore. Let yourself shine. It's attractive!
posted by corb at 7:58 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]
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posted by parmanparman at 3:16 AM on April 5 [5 favorites]