How do deal with "If you loved me, you'd..." in a relationship?

October 5, 2015 6:15 AM

I come from an affectionate family; my husband is physically affectionate, but he says "I love you" to me basically on my birthday and Christmas (you get the gist). I've told him recently I'd like to hear it once a day or more, that it means a lot to me to hear it.

Sometimes, he throws it in my face. For example, after an argument, I might wave the white flag with an "I love you," and then he'll say, "Well, if you love me, you wouldn't xyz."

This hurts me because I feel he's using it against me.

No, I'm not getting a divorce over this. Just, what can I say or do?

posted by Piedmont_Americana to Human Relations (22 answers total)

You can't force this, but you can tell him you love him at least once a day with no expectation of reciprocation and a genuine smile. Maybe he will eventually respond in kind. That's what I'd do.
posted by Dolley at 6:18 AM on October 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

I think usually people talk about this kind of construction ("if you loved me...") as an ultimatum, but under the circumstances, if you've just said that, then it sounds like what he's really trying to say is, "You're saying that, but I am not actually feeling loved right now because X is happening." Which is still a hard thing to hear, but it might at least be a bit more productive to phrase it like that instead? I think it's so hokey, but that whole "love languages" business is very tied up in this thing about how the words might be very important for you to feel loved, but he might need different signals.
posted by Sequence at 6:20 AM on October 5, 2015 [18 favorites]

If you're saying "I love you" to give up in an argument, he may be seeing it differently than you are. He may see it as a tactic to get your way. So to him, "I love you," may mean, "If you loved me back, you'd see I'm right," and that (to me) seems to make sense, because he says the same thing that he hears (in his head) back to you with, "If you loved me, x."
posted by xingcat at 6:24 AM on October 5, 2015 [9 favorites]

My wife just says "Tell me you love me." Regularly.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:26 AM on October 5, 2015 [5 favorites]

Have you guys read the book The Five Love Languages?

I ask because it sounds like Words of Affirmation are really important to you and not so much to him.

The book might help you both dig into what other things he can say to you that will help you feel great and also feel like he's not just robotically programmed to emit a strong of syllables ever x hours. The book might also illuminate whatever your fights are really about.

After that, I'd suggest any of the books from John and Julie Gottman.
posted by bilabial at 6:37 AM on October 5, 2015 [8 favorites]

You could say exactly what you said here:

"When you say, 'Well, if you love me, you wouldn't xyz,' it hurts me because I feel you're using it against me. Please stop saying that."
posted by kinetic at 6:48 AM on October 5, 2015 [8 favorites]

Have you two ever been to marriage counseling? I think that would be a good way to unpack this issue, which (understandably enough) seems pretty loaded for each of you. It sounds like neither one of you feels particularly loved. That's a really awful place to be and it's worth the effort to put in the work to get past it.

Clearly each of you has different conceptions of what saying "I love you" means, about why and when it's important. That's not a bad thing, it just is what it is, and somehow the two of you need to get to a place where you understand it more deeply and are OK with it. A neutral place with a helpful mediator and an explicit agreement between the two of you that this needs to be more clearly understood and resolved, could really help.

Best of luck.
posted by Sublimity at 6:50 AM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]

I might wave the white flag with an "I love you,"

I would feel zero inclination to say "I love you" back to my husband if that was his way of ending an argument. Honestly, if my husband did this, I'd be incredibly annoyed and would very well respond much like your husband (even though I agree it is mean and not good communication at all!). Don't tie your "I love you"s into your fights; it turns them into a currency with transactional/manipulative burdens , rather than a simple declaration of your feelings. Even if that isn't your intent, it's likely the perception. If your husband doesn't place a high value on verbal affirmations of love to begin with, then doing this is definitely not going to make the situation better.

What happens when you kiss him goodbye/hello and say "I love you"? I am not big on saying "I love you" spontaneously, but I always say it back when my husband does. If your husband is cagey with saying "I love you" even in that circumstance, then I second the suggestion of counseling to unpack why he is consciously withholding something that he knows is important to you. If it's mostly just an issue that you crave spontaneous "I love you"s from him, then I think the recommendation of the love languages book is a great one for helping you understand him, and maybe recognizing that other things he does for you are his version of "I love you." Ideally, he would read it, too, and learn to express himself in a way sometimes that you prefer.
posted by gatorae at 7:01 AM on October 5, 2015 [27 favorites]

This sounds like two different issues. One, you're not feeling like you get what you need (see comments about love languages above). And two, one or both of you don't fight fairly.

You will probably have better luck if you address them separately. As for wanting to be reassured of his love for you, it sounds like you've recently began to address that. You told him recently that it's important to you to hear it more often than you do. Even if he is on board with trying, it's a change to a lifelong habit so you need to be patient and persistent and most of all good-natured about it. See Huffy Puffy's response above. That could make it fun.

Not fighting fairly is a bigger problem and could indicate unresolved resentments in the relationship, or overall emotional immaturity. Try to remember you are on the same team. "I love you" shouldn't be used to end an argument, it should be used to express love.
posted by headnsouth at 7:04 AM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]

For example, after an argument, I might wave the white flag with an "I love you," and then he'll say, "Well, if you love me, you wouldn't xyz." This hurts me because I feel he's using it against me.

So stop saying in circumstances you already know will not have the outcome you want? Also I'm not sure how "I love you" is waving a white flag. My response would be "that's nice but that isn't the issue right now" and it would, honestly, really irritate me.

I love you isn't a magical shorthand. Don't use it to avoid saying and therefore communicating what you actually mean: "I don't want to have this argument any more / I'm sorry / This is not the hill I want to die on / You were right / I need a break here / Are we OK / Do you need some space / Jesus this feels really sad / Christ what an asshole" or whatever.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:05 AM on October 5, 2015 [30 favorites]

Realistically, you can shift your own attitudes, but not his. I encourage you to say "let's not argue about this" or "let's take a break from this discussion until we feel calmer".

You described saying "I love you" in an argument as a white flag (of surrender), but I don't think I would see it that way if my spouse said it. It sounds to me a bit like trying to play a "get out of jail free" card. (But IF he's scaring you, then I can understand trying to placate him.) To me, a loving thing to say in an argument is "I hear what you are saying". Marital arguments can't really be *won*, they can only be settled. I think understanding each other's perspective is the main goal.

I do disapprove of saying "if you loved me you'd ___" to anyone. It strikes me as a manipulative attempt to control or program ones partner. I don't know if I'd answer to his face, but I'd be thinking "I said I loved you, I never said I was perfect."
posted by puddledork at 7:07 AM on October 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

Does you husband really know what "love" means to you? Do you share the same understanding?

Anecdote: My wife and I trade "I love you"s quite a lot, but I can visibly see that "love" means something a whole lot deeper to her than it apparently does to me. It's not that I don't "love" her, mind you, at least in my own way. It's just that her personal understanding of "I love you" seems to be far deeper and essential to her than my own understanding/relationship with the word is.

{ Insert "you can't love someone until you love yourself" discussion. Also, nature v. nurture issues. }
posted by Thorzdad at 7:28 AM on October 5, 2015

"Well, if you love me, you wouldn't xyz."

The problem here is that he's being an asshole. I think I would get away with that sentence exactly once in my marriage, and I'm not even sure about that, I bet she'd just tell me to pack up.

Say "Don't say that to me" If that doesn't work elaborate "that's asshole talk, it makes you sound like an assshole. Unless you are delivering a marriage ending ultimatum, thats not a thing you should say to me."
posted by French Fry at 8:29 AM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]

Maybe childish but I'd be tempted to respond, "well, if you loved me, you wouldn't question my love for you." Or "you know that's not true." Or even more aggressive, "are you saying I'm lying about loving you?"

It should only take one confrontational response for him to get it, and may provoke a clarifying/healing conversation about what love means and when to say it and etc.
posted by quincunx at 8:53 AM on October 5, 2015

I've told him recently I'd like to hear it once a day or more, that it means a lot to me to hear it.

And how did that conversation go? It sounds like from what you've outlined here that the two of you may use the phrase in different contexts, and it may even be that you ascribe to different meanings to it. I'm not exactly sure what saying "I love you" at the end of an argument is supposed to signify? It's possible your husband has the same lack of understanding. So I think the way to break out of this specific cycle, is not to use "I love you" the phrase as a token that carries some sort of currency in your relationship that is different for the two of you.

So, You don't use it to preemptorally and arguments, and then you won't get back a whole bunch of "if you loved me…" in this specific context. That doesn't address the fact that you would just like him to be more verbally affectionate. It also doesn't address the fact that "if you love me…" as other people have said is sort of a jerk thing to say to somebody in a general sense. It may be that your husband is just being a jerk about this, or it may be for whatever reason it isn't natural for him to say and he's feeling pressured and that's his pressured response.

So I think it's a time for boundaries around that line of discussion especially if that hurt your feelings. I think it's totally okay for you to say something that shifts the conversation like "that's not the point" or other things people have suggested. But I do think there's a larger issue in your relationship that just happens to be highlighted by these two separate conflict instances between the two of you that just happened to center around the same words.
posted by jessamyn at 9:14 AM on October 5, 2015 [3 favorites]

As to the "how do I get my husband to say 'I love you' more often?" part, I basically told him, point blank, that he needs to say it.

As to the "if you loved me, you'd _________________", retort, all I can say is don't use it as a white flag anymore.
posted by Lucinda at 9:22 AM on October 5, 2015

Yeah, it sounds like you're saying "ILU" to re-assert a feeling of goodwill and friendly vibes despite whatever differences emerged in the argument, while he's seeing it as a diversion from the issue (and wants to stay mad and "right"). Is there any appeasing him when he's upset or feels wronged? How much validation of his hurt does he need in order to settle into a "let's aim for a mutual win" attitude, and how long does he like to stay angry, or want you to feel bad? Does he accept other kinds of friendly bids or attempts to lighten the atmosphere after an argument?
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:31 AM on October 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

"If you loved me, you'd stop coercing me into ultimatums like this."
posted by obliterati at 9:36 AM on October 5, 2015

Internet stranger, reading between the lines a lot here, but it sounds to me like your husband might have a perception, whether conscious or unconscious, that verbal acts of affection are a form of manipulation. If this is the case, then when you use "I love you" as a ploy in an argument in order to get what you want (i.e., cessation of active arguing) he may not even be aware that his sense of being manipulated has been activated, but it sounds as though he is responding to you in kind. None of this is to say that he is right and you are wrong, because those concepts are kind of irrelevant here, just that that could easily be what's going on.

In which case, some sessions with a couples' therapist could help, and if you and/or he won't do those, some careful thought and observation about how you are deploying your "I love you"s and how he is responding to them might be useful for you. Saying "I love you" every day because you want something from him (i.e., to say "I love you" back) may also resonate in his sense of being manipulated. That sense is a survival instinct. You can't change it, and he won't change it unless he wants to.

None of this is to say that you are wrong or bad for wanting him to say it more often, but just to suggest that there may be some things in his background that make him reticent, and that you may have to consider those things as you navigate this together.
posted by gauche at 9:42 AM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]

I also see two issues that need sorting, probably with a marriage counselor. The first issue is that you have a need to have love reinforced verbally. That's fine and it's a need that can be easily met by your husband with a change of habit. If he's unable to do this and has baggage around it, discuss with a counselor to release the baggage.

The other issue is that you two seem to not argue/fight in a healthy way. Agree on ground rules and what constitutes a white flag or time-out/reset. You using, "I love you" as a white flag is probably not the best idea as you're already dealing with the aforementioned "I love you" issue and the use of the same phrase as a white flag could easily be interpreted as being manipulative, regardless of whether that's your intention (I believe it isn't). His response to the white flag is pretty toxic as well and the result is both of you escalating rather than resolving the argument. You two have fallen into a bad pattern and doing some marriage counseling to resolve these issues is exactly what marriage counseling is for.
posted by quince at 10:54 AM on October 5, 2015

The way you've typed it up, these really do sound like two different issues:
1. I would like to figure out how I can help my husband tell me he loves me more often.
2. Sometimes when we argue I tell my husband I love him in an attempt to defray tension/concede the argument/etc and sometimes he responds by saying that if I loved him I would just stop engaging in the behavior that started the argument in the first place.

It's clear from your post that there is some specific result that you're trying to affect by saying "I love you" in those arguments, but not entirely clear what that result actually is.

So, assuming (aha. aha) that these are two separate issues...
Number One
How did he react when you told him what you want? I'm honestly not really sure I'd have anything useful to offer without knowing how that went. Ignoring or barely acknowledging you is different from saying he'll change and dropping it, and that's different from asking you why it's important or telling you why he's uncomfortable. The happy thing is that this is totally doable as far a changed behavior goes, but there are many roads to Mecca. You have to know where you're starting from to know which one you want.

Number Two
What exactly *are* you trying to do by telling him I love you in the middle (or the end, or whatever) of the argument? I agree that your husband's responses could be an attempt to manipulate you, suggesting a "the point of a fight is to win" mentality. Or, he could think that you're trying to manipulate him or otherwise redirect the argument, and he's trying to bring you back to the central concern (albeit, not in the most useful way possible).

Gross Simplification Aside:
There's something of a divide, in my opinion, between whether people think Love is primarily a noun or a verb. People who see Love primarily as a noun describing an emotional state or relational orientation think saying "I love you" means "you are important/valuable to me in a very specific, special, and intense way". People who see Love primarily as a verb describing dependable action or behavior towards someone else think saying "I love you" is a re-affirmation of that behavior continuing into the future, often regardless or in spite of feelings in the moment.

Verb-ers can sometimes undervalue noun-love because that definition isn't always dependable in a practical sense. Noun-ers can sometimes undervalue verb-love because actions don't necessarily always communicate the sense of value and meaning they look for in love.

In my personal experience, noun-ers say "I love you" a lot, and verb-ers have to be brought around the idea of saying it. Relatedly, lots of dudes seem to be in the verb camp. If your husband is in the "love is a verb" camp and you're in the "love is a noun" camp, I can easily see how that could go poorly. It would be like hearing, I refuse to do this loving thing right now but it's okay because I "love" you. It's cognitively dissonant, possibly (unintentional) gaslighting, suggesting the negative behavior is the result of love.

But get back to us and flesh your question out, if you can!
posted by Poppa Bear at 1:29 PM on October 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

I would quit using the phrase as a white flag because that will preclude him from being able to use it in an argument. Could you find some other phrase like, "Let's end it here" to signify your argument is finished?

Then it can be a separate conversation that you'd like to hear it more from him.
posted by mermily at 2:20 PM on October 5, 2015