My wife is overworked and stressed and it's making me resentful
September 21, 2014 6:22 AM Subscribe
My wife is overworked, underslept, and stressed, and I wanted to know if anybody had any advice that might be helpful. She has a job that requires long hours and causes her a lot of stress that she is committed to until the end of the school year. On top of that, she has a job for a few hours every weekend that she is committed to for a while as well. We also have a two year old daughter and we are climbing out of debt.
I work full time but have a much less stressful job and rarely have to work long hours. (I make slightly more money from my job than she does from her jobs put together, so it's not like I'm not doing my share financially.) Our daughter is in daycare and I do much more of the parenting during the week. I get her up, give her breakfast, and bring her to daycare every weekday and also pick her up and give her dinner and do stuff with her and put her to bed several nights a week. There are usually 1-3 days per week my wife doesn't even see her.
My wife gets pretty irritable when she's tired and stressed and since I pretty much only get to see her when she's tired and stressed (at least during the week) I pretty much only see her tired, stressed, and irritable. I find myself getting resentful and angry because I miss her during the day and then when she gets home and I expect some affection and connection, a lot of the time I just get basically ignored and snapped at. She is an emotional person and she has gotten somewhat better at reducing the number of times she snaps at me etc. but it still happens regularly and even when it doesn't, I can tell that she's annoyed and frustrated and just wants me to leave her alone.
Sometimes she does want affection or to cuddle, but it often seems to be just when she needs some comforting. She does not seem to spend much time or energy trying to see how I'm doing or to try to do things to help our relationship or to help me.
On top of all this, she does not take care of herself. She stays up late on facebook, she is obese and eats junk food instead of meals, she doesn't exercise, she keeps checking her work email and responding to her boss at all hours and on weekends, etc. She also has a pessimistic attitude and constantly seems to see the glass half empty. She complains about most of the people in her life. She doesn't use any relaxation techniques or even seem to be aware that it's possible or desirable to try to manage her moods with any tools at all.
She is extremely defensive and does not take advice or suggestions well.
To her credit, she does (obviously) work really hard in part to help us get out of debt and is a good mom when she is around.
I have encouraged her to get therapy, and helped her find a therapist. She went twice and decided that it was just one more commitment and stressor in her life so she didn't want to go anymore.
I already do a lot of the housework and childcare, so I'm not sure what else I can do to relieve her stress on my end. I try to gently suggest that she go to bed earlier and stop emailing at a certain time etc. but that does not have much effect. I encourage her to take some time for herself on weekends when possible, although I also want and take some time for myself to go to the gym etc. I think I model some things that would help a lot (I exercise, I have lost a ton of weight and kept it off, I keep a good work-life balance, I try to relax myself in stressful situations, I went to therapy for years) but I'm careful not to be pushy or self-righteous about it. I encourage her whenever she talks about going back to weight watchers or whatever, but I don't bring it up on my own.
What else can I do to try to alleviate this situation? Either ways to help her destress (again, assuming she cannot leave either job for some months) or ways to help me be less resentful about her stress's effect on me and her lack of willingness or ability to help herself would be helpful.
I work full time but have a much less stressful job and rarely have to work long hours. (I make slightly more money from my job than she does from her jobs put together, so it's not like I'm not doing my share financially.) Our daughter is in daycare and I do much more of the parenting during the week. I get her up, give her breakfast, and bring her to daycare every weekday and also pick her up and give her dinner and do stuff with her and put her to bed several nights a week. There are usually 1-3 days per week my wife doesn't even see her.
My wife gets pretty irritable when she's tired and stressed and since I pretty much only get to see her when she's tired and stressed (at least during the week) I pretty much only see her tired, stressed, and irritable. I find myself getting resentful and angry because I miss her during the day and then when she gets home and I expect some affection and connection, a lot of the time I just get basically ignored and snapped at. She is an emotional person and she has gotten somewhat better at reducing the number of times she snaps at me etc. but it still happens regularly and even when it doesn't, I can tell that she's annoyed and frustrated and just wants me to leave her alone.
Sometimes she does want affection or to cuddle, but it often seems to be just when she needs some comforting. She does not seem to spend much time or energy trying to see how I'm doing or to try to do things to help our relationship or to help me.
On top of all this, she does not take care of herself. She stays up late on facebook, she is obese and eats junk food instead of meals, she doesn't exercise, she keeps checking her work email and responding to her boss at all hours and on weekends, etc. She also has a pessimistic attitude and constantly seems to see the glass half empty. She complains about most of the people in her life. She doesn't use any relaxation techniques or even seem to be aware that it's possible or desirable to try to manage her moods with any tools at all.
She is extremely defensive and does not take advice or suggestions well.
To her credit, she does (obviously) work really hard in part to help us get out of debt and is a good mom when she is around.
I have encouraged her to get therapy, and helped her find a therapist. She went twice and decided that it was just one more commitment and stressor in her life so she didn't want to go anymore.
I already do a lot of the housework and childcare, so I'm not sure what else I can do to relieve her stress on my end. I try to gently suggest that she go to bed earlier and stop emailing at a certain time etc. but that does not have much effect. I encourage her to take some time for herself on weekends when possible, although I also want and take some time for myself to go to the gym etc. I think I model some things that would help a lot (I exercise, I have lost a ton of weight and kept it off, I keep a good work-life balance, I try to relax myself in stressful situations, I went to therapy for years) but I'm careful not to be pushy or self-righteous about it. I encourage her whenever she talks about going back to weight watchers or whatever, but I don't bring it up on my own.
What else can I do to try to alleviate this situation? Either ways to help her destress (again, assuming she cannot leave either job for some months) or ways to help me be less resentful about her stress's effect on me and her lack of willingness or ability to help herself would be helpful.
Can you and she agree that her weekend job will stop on a given date in a few months time?
And instead of modelling all of these wonderful behaviours you think would "help" her, have you asked her (with no suggestions, just compassion) what you can do in the interim to help her?
posted by DarlingBri at 6:40 AM on September 21, 2014 [21 favorites]
And instead of modelling all of these wonderful behaviours you think would "help" her, have you asked her (with no suggestions, just compassion) what you can do in the interim to help her?
posted by DarlingBri at 6:40 AM on September 21, 2014 [21 favorites]
I think awareness of how you, as a guy, get more earning opportunities at equivalent work, would help. It's easy to see "keeping a good work-life balance" as a matter of virtue, but it doesn't sound like your wife feels she has the opportunity to do that. Is she keeping both jobs because of the financial crunch? Could you start working on the weekend so she can quit one of her jobs and have more time to spend with your kid?
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 6:42 AM on September 21, 2014 [55 favorites]
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 6:42 AM on September 21, 2014 [55 favorites]
Can you rework your financial plan so you at all so she can drop the weekend job. Financial plans are great, but if there is any flexibility choose your marriage and wives stress levels over getting out of debt six months earlier. Remember too from your wives side she probably resents you only have to work one job, get paid more, get to spend time with your daughter and that you even have the time or energy to think about cuddling.
posted by wwax at 6:50 AM on September 21, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by wwax at 6:50 AM on September 21, 2014 [8 favorites]
People who are overloaded already feel like they're letting everyone down and doing everything inadequately. Don't add a guilt trip to her list. "I expect some affection and connection" sounds kind of childish and demanding.
If this truly is a temporary situation, set yourself on a longer course, acknowledge (and appreciate!) her sacrifice and know this will be in your rear view window before you know it.
I'm careful not to be pushy or self-righteous about it
Check yourself to be sure your non-verbal communication isn't pushy or self-righteous. Also make sure you're not playing the martyr card with your child.
posted by Sweetie Darling at 6:57 AM on September 21, 2014 [19 favorites]
If this truly is a temporary situation, set yourself on a longer course, acknowledge (and appreciate!) her sacrifice and know this will be in your rear view window before you know it.
I'm careful not to be pushy or self-righteous about it
Check yourself to be sure your non-verbal communication isn't pushy or self-righteous. Also make sure you're not playing the martyr card with your child.
posted by Sweetie Darling at 6:57 AM on September 21, 2014 [19 favorites]
I think you're already on the right path in that you try to model positive behaviors (exercise, taking time to relax, etc) rather than pestering her with suggestions about how she should live her life. The hands-off but still compassionate/supportive technique can work, but it may take some time. Like anyone else who is stuck in one mode of behavior due to stress, anxiety, depression or even addiction (for her, possibly work, food and/or internet addiction), she will have to decide on her own that she wants to change.
The best thing you can do is continue to be supportive and continue modeling positive behaviors. Whenever I want to keep things in my household as positive as possible for myself and my SO, I do what I can to model and uphold the lifestyle I want us to have together: I say I'm going to the gym and then I do, I make tea instead of bringing home alcohol, I stick to buying healthy groceries/snacks so that there are no temptations to live off of just cheese and crackers every night, I put on some music and read a book instead of turning on the TV, I lay out my craft supplies and work on a project. I never present any of these activities as "holier than thou" or "you should be doing this too" or "I'm doing this now and ignoring you in the process" - I just do them, out in the open, and make it clear with my words and actions that my SO has the choice to do these things with me if he'd so desire. And if SO doesn't desire at the time to do those things, that's totally cool - no judgment. But what I (often, not always, but still often) find is that if I go and independently work on a relaxing project/hobby, by the time I turn around or come back in the room, he's also working on one of his own relaxing projects/hobbies or reading a book or something that is bound to make him happier in the long run than passively absorbing TV or the internet. I take responsibility for making my own life meaningful and in turn, it sets a similar mood within our home. If I just come up and turn on the TV and start knocking back wine and cheese (which is perfectly OK for unwinding, just not every single night!) then we dissolve together into TV and alcohol and blah.
So while this suggestion above is not a 'guarantee' to help your wife find her own peace and, in turn, make your relationship a happier one, it is an absolutely necessary attitude to maintain throughout this difficult time. I'm sorry that you're going through this - you sound like a great husband and father - but I'm also sorry that your wife is so unhappy with her life. I've been where she is. I, too, have gone through periods in my life where I worked excessive hours only to come home and snap at my SO and then eat my emotions in front of my computer screen. What I learned from therapy was that I needed to communicate with my SO that it was necessary I have about 30 minutes of 'alone' time right after I get home so I could comfortably transition from "grr intense working girl Type A is for AAGGGGH!" to "Hello, I'm your romantic partner who is happy to be not at work anymore and happy to have you in my life because I chose you and you're great." Once I communicated that desire for alone time to my SO, he understood I was not angry with him personally but just stressed from coming home from work; he also understood I was not rejecting him when I went in the bedroom and checked my email and then freshened up in the bathroom before coming back and talking to him like a human being. It also showed him that I cared about him and didn't want him to be a casualty of my anxiety. Of course, she would have to realize on her own that maybe this is what she needs to do upon coming home from work, and you'd want to be careful not to 'instruct' her to start doing this given her unwillingness to take advice well. But maybe saying something out loud in general to her, like "I felt really anxious when I got home from work yesterday, but after I went to the bathroom and washed my face and drank a glass of water, I felt a lot better - it was kind of funny. I think I'm going to start doing that more often when I get home." Then follow through with it. (You don't actually have to wash your face and drink a glass of water, that's just an example of a simple ritual one could use for helping one's mind transition from workplace to home).
Also, I am a bit confused about what defines "commitment" here in terms of her weekend job. Is it the necessity of more income to help pay off the debt? If so, I'm going to second what wwax and others said above about reworking your financial plan. You come up with a suggested new financial plan and budget, and when the two of you have a moment to sit and look at it together (preferably not on one of her work days), ask her what she thinks and if she'd be happy with that as an alternative to the weekend job. Because if the job is financially necessary, but there are other ways to make up for the extra income (like cutting back on certain expenses), maybe she'll see that it's okay to quit the weekend job. It's obviously not a job that's making her any happier, so it can't possibly be a loss to her in terms of giving her satisfaction. Unless it's something she's doing to help advance her career, which then makes it more complicated to give up. I understand that ending the weekend job may not be so simple, but again, it's a suggestion to consider.
TL;DR: She has too much on her plate; so do you. Keep being compassionate and supportive, keep setting good examples, and if possible, find a way to revise your budget so that she can at least quit the weekend job. Once the weekend job goes away, you may be one step closer to her feeling more at ease. If she feels more at ease, she will hopefully feel less depressed. Even if she doesn't feel less depressed, she'll have a little more time to reflect on her non-work life and perhaps even find herself open to going back to therapy.
(Also, I know you're trying to get out of debt, but would she enjoy a day at the spa? Some spa-training places offer really great but reduced-price student services, and you could get her a gift certificate for a facial, manicure and pedicure; better yet, a Swedish or hot stone massage. It would give her some alone time and some pampering, and it would take her away from Facebook and junk food just long enough to show her that there are other great ways to relax. It may also help her self image and confidence. Baby steps. Note: I too am working to get out of some serious debt right now, but you have to give yourself a small reward every once in a while or you'll get fed up and explode. She sounds like she needs a day at the spa so she can remember what non-work life is like and that there is joy and happiness and she should share it with her wonderful husband and child, too!)
posted by nightrecordings at 7:14 AM on September 21, 2014 [6 favorites]
The best thing you can do is continue to be supportive and continue modeling positive behaviors. Whenever I want to keep things in my household as positive as possible for myself and my SO, I do what I can to model and uphold the lifestyle I want us to have together: I say I'm going to the gym and then I do, I make tea instead of bringing home alcohol, I stick to buying healthy groceries/snacks so that there are no temptations to live off of just cheese and crackers every night, I put on some music and read a book instead of turning on the TV, I lay out my craft supplies and work on a project. I never present any of these activities as "holier than thou" or "you should be doing this too" or "I'm doing this now and ignoring you in the process" - I just do them, out in the open, and make it clear with my words and actions that my SO has the choice to do these things with me if he'd so desire. And if SO doesn't desire at the time to do those things, that's totally cool - no judgment. But what I (often, not always, but still often) find is that if I go and independently work on a relaxing project/hobby, by the time I turn around or come back in the room, he's also working on one of his own relaxing projects/hobbies or reading a book or something that is bound to make him happier in the long run than passively absorbing TV or the internet. I take responsibility for making my own life meaningful and in turn, it sets a similar mood within our home. If I just come up and turn on the TV and start knocking back wine and cheese (which is perfectly OK for unwinding, just not every single night!) then we dissolve together into TV and alcohol and blah.
So while this suggestion above is not a 'guarantee' to help your wife find her own peace and, in turn, make your relationship a happier one, it is an absolutely necessary attitude to maintain throughout this difficult time. I'm sorry that you're going through this - you sound like a great husband and father - but I'm also sorry that your wife is so unhappy with her life. I've been where she is. I, too, have gone through periods in my life where I worked excessive hours only to come home and snap at my SO and then eat my emotions in front of my computer screen. What I learned from therapy was that I needed to communicate with my SO that it was necessary I have about 30 minutes of 'alone' time right after I get home so I could comfortably transition from "grr intense working girl Type A is for AAGGGGH!" to "Hello, I'm your romantic partner who is happy to be not at work anymore and happy to have you in my life because I chose you and you're great." Once I communicated that desire for alone time to my SO, he understood I was not angry with him personally but just stressed from coming home from work; he also understood I was not rejecting him when I went in the bedroom and checked my email and then freshened up in the bathroom before coming back and talking to him like a human being. It also showed him that I cared about him and didn't want him to be a casualty of my anxiety. Of course, she would have to realize on her own that maybe this is what she needs to do upon coming home from work, and you'd want to be careful not to 'instruct' her to start doing this given her unwillingness to take advice well. But maybe saying something out loud in general to her, like "I felt really anxious when I got home from work yesterday, but after I went to the bathroom and washed my face and drank a glass of water, I felt a lot better - it was kind of funny. I think I'm going to start doing that more often when I get home." Then follow through with it. (You don't actually have to wash your face and drink a glass of water, that's just an example of a simple ritual one could use for helping one's mind transition from workplace to home).
Also, I am a bit confused about what defines "commitment" here in terms of her weekend job. Is it the necessity of more income to help pay off the debt? If so, I'm going to second what wwax and others said above about reworking your financial plan. You come up with a suggested new financial plan and budget, and when the two of you have a moment to sit and look at it together (preferably not on one of her work days), ask her what she thinks and if she'd be happy with that as an alternative to the weekend job. Because if the job is financially necessary, but there are other ways to make up for the extra income (like cutting back on certain expenses), maybe she'll see that it's okay to quit the weekend job. It's obviously not a job that's making her any happier, so it can't possibly be a loss to her in terms of giving her satisfaction. Unless it's something she's doing to help advance her career, which then makes it more complicated to give up. I understand that ending the weekend job may not be so simple, but again, it's a suggestion to consider.
TL;DR: She has too much on her plate; so do you. Keep being compassionate and supportive, keep setting good examples, and if possible, find a way to revise your budget so that she can at least quit the weekend job. Once the weekend job goes away, you may be one step closer to her feeling more at ease. If she feels more at ease, she will hopefully feel less depressed. Even if she doesn't feel less depressed, she'll have a little more time to reflect on her non-work life and perhaps even find herself open to going back to therapy.
(Also, I know you're trying to get out of debt, but would she enjoy a day at the spa? Some spa-training places offer really great but reduced-price student services, and you could get her a gift certificate for a facial, manicure and pedicure; better yet, a Swedish or hot stone massage. It would give her some alone time and some pampering, and it would take her away from Facebook and junk food just long enough to show her that there are other great ways to relax. It may also help her self image and confidence. Baby steps. Note: I too am working to get out of some serious debt right now, but you have to give yourself a small reward every once in a while or you'll get fed up and explode. She sounds like she needs a day at the spa so she can remember what non-work life is like and that there is joy and happiness and she should share it with her wonderful husband and child, too!)
posted by nightrecordings at 7:14 AM on September 21, 2014 [6 favorites]
"Getting out of debt" is something that people can go a little overboard on. It's obviously a good thing to be as debt-free as possible (so that you're not in trouble later down the line), but sacrificing your physical and mental health for it doesn't really make a lot of sense if you're financially comfortable but personally miserable.
I would see if the two of you can forgive yourselves a bit of the burden of repayment. Don't fall behind, but don't be as aggressive as it seems like you are -- so that she can leave the weekend job. (This is assuming that the reason for the weekend job is entirely financial...she may be getting something else out of the work that she doesn't want to give up, as well).
posted by xingcat at 7:18 AM on September 21, 2014 [5 favorites]
I would see if the two of you can forgive yourselves a bit of the burden of repayment. Don't fall behind, but don't be as aggressive as it seems like you are -- so that she can leave the weekend job. (This is assuming that the reason for the weekend job is entirely financial...she may be getting something else out of the work that she doesn't want to give up, as well).
posted by xingcat at 7:18 AM on September 21, 2014 [5 favorites]
If your wife needs space and time alone after work to destress, the kindest thing you could do and he best thing for your marriage would be to figure out a way to make that possible for her. You're lonely? Call your family or friends, chat with people online, whatever. Don't add responsibility for your loneliness to your wifes burdens as it sounds like she's got far too much to deal with already.
posted by hazyjane at 7:25 AM on September 21, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by hazyjane at 7:25 AM on September 21, 2014 [7 favorites]
You want more connection -- she's overwhelmed -- she uses Facebook to wind down...
It's not a long-term ideal, but while you're going through this with the stressful job, can you connect with her a little it through Facebook? If you have a story about your day you want to share with her but you know she'll come home cranky, put it in a Facebook message.
I would dial back on the "her lack of willingness or ability to help herself" idea. A mother of a toddler with two jobs, with long hours and stress, is a person functioning at the bleeding edge of ability to function, not a person with "lack of willingness or ability to help herself." She is helping herself, and the family, by moving towards getting out of debt. Since the debt and the overwork have built-in end dates I would focus on 'this too will pass' rather than thinking this is a thing one can yoga oneself out of. If mucking about on-line is what helps her relax I'd be careful to let her indulge in that for the time being instead of seeing her as a teen-ager who needs to be told to get to bed on time.
I think in your shoes I would just buckle down, enjoy the kid, and look forward to the end of the school year. If you can schedule dates in -- nothing too involved, a sitter and a late dinner here and there, say -- that might be nice.
posted by kmennie at 7:46 AM on September 21, 2014 [23 favorites]
It's not a long-term ideal, but while you're going through this with the stressful job, can you connect with her a little it through Facebook? If you have a story about your day you want to share with her but you know she'll come home cranky, put it in a Facebook message.
I would dial back on the "her lack of willingness or ability to help herself" idea. A mother of a toddler with two jobs, with long hours and stress, is a person functioning at the bleeding edge of ability to function, not a person with "lack of willingness or ability to help herself." She is helping herself, and the family, by moving towards getting out of debt. Since the debt and the overwork have built-in end dates I would focus on 'this too will pass' rather than thinking this is a thing one can yoga oneself out of. If mucking about on-line is what helps her relax I'd be careful to let her indulge in that for the time being instead of seeing her as a teen-ager who needs to be told to get to bed on time.
I think in your shoes I would just buckle down, enjoy the kid, and look forward to the end of the school year. If you can schedule dates in -- nothing too involved, a sitter and a late dinner here and there, say -- that might be nice.
posted by kmennie at 7:46 AM on September 21, 2014 [23 favorites]
She doesn't need therapy, you both need therapy so you can communicate better. Telling her what you think she ought to do is stressing. Being critical of her habits is stressing.
Sit down when she's had rest and is not in a mood. Say to her, "You are very stressed out, exhausted and not well nourished. I appreciate that you have commitments to your jobs, but I am concerned for your health. While it's laudable that you have this weekend job, and I'm sure they count on you, we count on you too. I believe that if we work together, we can find a way financially to be able to have you quit so that you can have time to regroup after your school job. I also think it would great if we could meet with a therapist to work out how best to discuss our relationship together so that we both feel heard and appreciated. I love you and it hurts me to see you so unhappy and at the breaking point."
Then listen to what she has to say. Don't spend your time not talking waiting to say something, really LISTEN to her. She probably doesn't like the situation any more than you do. Maybe she has ideas for things you can do to lighten her load.
Having a toddler stresses good marriages where money abounds, child-rearing is not for the faint of heart. If you are strapped for money and having problems, you could easily be headed for divorce because of the stress.
Getting your family put together and keeping everyone in it happy and healthy matters WAY more than climbing out of debt.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:03 AM on September 21, 2014 [5 favorites]
Sit down when she's had rest and is not in a mood. Say to her, "You are very stressed out, exhausted and not well nourished. I appreciate that you have commitments to your jobs, but I am concerned for your health. While it's laudable that you have this weekend job, and I'm sure they count on you, we count on you too. I believe that if we work together, we can find a way financially to be able to have you quit so that you can have time to regroup after your school job. I also think it would great if we could meet with a therapist to work out how best to discuss our relationship together so that we both feel heard and appreciated. I love you and it hurts me to see you so unhappy and at the breaking point."
Then listen to what she has to say. Don't spend your time not talking waiting to say something, really LISTEN to her. She probably doesn't like the situation any more than you do. Maybe she has ideas for things you can do to lighten her load.
Having a toddler stresses good marriages where money abounds, child-rearing is not for the faint of heart. If you are strapped for money and having problems, you could easily be headed for divorce because of the stress.
Getting your family put together and keeping everyone in it happy and healthy matters WAY more than climbing out of debt.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:03 AM on September 21, 2014 [5 favorites]
I Agee with the make Facebook positive - interact with her on Facebook and see if you can suggest some downtime activities instead of Facebook.
Her attitude toward therapy may be simply that she doesn't have time.
Also - does she have a sense of how the budget works and when you will be out of debt? For both of you, a countdown or calendar would be helpful.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:16 AM on September 21, 2014
Her attitude toward therapy may be simply that she doesn't have time.
Also - does she have a sense of how the budget works and when you will be out of debt? For both of you, a countdown or calendar would be helpful.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:16 AM on September 21, 2014
She's the one who need as to decide how to handle her stress. What you can do as her partner is tell her what you need to feel satisfied in your relationship. It sounds to me like you need her to talk to you nicely and to spend some time focused on you and your relationship each week. Talk to her about that, ask her if she's willing to do those things, and ask her if there are things you could do differently to increase her ability to do those things.
Let her diet, etc. be none of your business. Focus on what you need from your partner, not how you think she should be meeting those needs.
If she is not willing to do the minimum things you require in your relationship, think about whether you can expect that to change at the end of the school year. If yes, try to meet your emotional and household needs through other outlets (including paying for help if need be; divorce will make your debt much worse than that will!). If no, think about whether you should stay in this situation.
posted by metasarah at 8:17 AM on September 21, 2014
Let her diet, etc. be none of your business. Focus on what you need from your partner, not how you think she should be meeting those needs.
If she is not willing to do the minimum things you require in your relationship, think about whether you can expect that to change at the end of the school year. If yes, try to meet your emotional and household needs through other outlets (including paying for help if need be; divorce will make your debt much worse than that will!). If no, think about whether you should stay in this situation.
posted by metasarah at 8:17 AM on September 21, 2014
I already do a lot of the housework and childcare...
I remember reading a study that showed that most men (I'm not saying you're one, but that it's something additional to consider) think they're doing "enough" work around the house and family, they're still doing far less than half. Some of this could be because most women are just better and faster at it, and most of it is important to get done quickly and right. However, anyone can get better with study and practice (not just practice, but actively looking for what's not done up to her standard and reading up on how to do better).
In any case, this is something you can probably control more.
Also, it might help if you can somehow reduce the amount of housework needed (here are some random ideas that might not work for you, but you can get an idea of the thinking process):
wearing no-iron clothing, if you generally have ironing to do;
planning meals that won't stain the kids' clothes;
doing activities that don't lead to disorder in the house;
planning meals and cooking that uses as few dishes as possible during the week;
taking the kids for play dates at other peoples' houses and bringing a snack and a promise to reciprocate in the future;
planning birthdays and other events far in advance so there's less disruption, errands, and clean-up when they happen;
looking into efficient meal preparation so you can do most of the work on the weekend and just re-heat stuff during the week; etc.
Of course, don't do this stuff unilaterally; check with her first.
Finally, when she does have some time at home, does she have a few quiet minutes alone in a room without you or the kids, to just sit? Maybe a quick lie-down after work, even 10 minutes, could help her put away the stress. I really find it helps me, although my life isn't nearly as stressful as hers sounds. Of course you' can't push the idea, but if you offer her a little her-only time (and convince her that things won't fall apart if she takes it -- that will be hard, so use your brain to make a really good plan for what everyone else will be doing during this time), and PROMISE to wake her up afterward, it might be something to consider.
posted by amtho at 8:18 AM on September 21, 2014 [11 favorites]
I remember reading a study that showed that most men (I'm not saying you're one, but that it's something additional to consider) think they're doing "enough" work around the house and family, they're still doing far less than half. Some of this could be because most women are just better and faster at it, and most of it is important to get done quickly and right. However, anyone can get better with study and practice (not just practice, but actively looking for what's not done up to her standard and reading up on how to do better).
In any case, this is something you can probably control more.
Also, it might help if you can somehow reduce the amount of housework needed (here are some random ideas that might not work for you, but you can get an idea of the thinking process):
wearing no-iron clothing, if you generally have ironing to do;
planning meals that won't stain the kids' clothes;
doing activities that don't lead to disorder in the house;
planning meals and cooking that uses as few dishes as possible during the week;
taking the kids for play dates at other peoples' houses and bringing a snack and a promise to reciprocate in the future;
planning birthdays and other events far in advance so there's less disruption, errands, and clean-up when they happen;
looking into efficient meal preparation so you can do most of the work on the weekend and just re-heat stuff during the week; etc.
Of course, don't do this stuff unilaterally; check with her first.
Finally, when she does have some time at home, does she have a few quiet minutes alone in a room without you or the kids, to just sit? Maybe a quick lie-down after work, even 10 minutes, could help her put away the stress. I really find it helps me, although my life isn't nearly as stressful as hers sounds. Of course you' can't push the idea, but if you offer her a little her-only time (and convince her that things won't fall apart if she takes it -- that will be hard, so use your brain to make a really good plan for what everyone else will be doing during this time), and PROMISE to wake her up afterward, it might be something to consider.
posted by amtho at 8:18 AM on September 21, 2014 [11 favorites]
Is she an introvert by nature? Introverts need some time when nobody is demanding their attention. It needs to be a fairly good chunk of uninterrupted time; it doesn't count if you "check in" or "ask a quick question" every ten minutes.
It can easily feel like you go from a job where everyone fucking wants something all the fucking time to home where everyone including the cat seems to be all "Hey look at meeeeee" and then there's a home todo list and a thing on Saturday, and jesus christ fuck can I just sit here and do nothing but stare at facebook and if I do will the whole world go away for a while?
But I know it's also easy to feel like the bad guy for wanting a little attention once in a while. You're not. Everyone needs that.
Maybe the only solution is to cut back her work load, if you can afford it. Another idea, though, could be to make her de-stress time also together time. What if you agreed to take a walk around the neighborhood every day? Some time with you, but without you demanding anything mentally. It doesn't count if you're tricking her into thinking about financial plans, parenting problems, etc. You can do that some other time when this starts working. It's just "be together" time. No talking unless she wants to.
I know you probably are wanting more than that, but you might find that's energizing enough for her to come out of it on her own and be more like you had in mind. Trying to force it just makes you one of the stressors and one more thing to feel bad about being a failure at.
posted by ctmf at 9:23 AM on September 21, 2014 [20 favorites]
It can easily feel like you go from a job where everyone fucking wants something all the fucking time to home where everyone including the cat seems to be all "Hey look at meeeeee" and then there's a home todo list and a thing on Saturday, and jesus christ fuck can I just sit here and do nothing but stare at facebook and if I do will the whole world go away for a while?
But I know it's also easy to feel like the bad guy for wanting a little attention once in a while. You're not. Everyone needs that.
Maybe the only solution is to cut back her work load, if you can afford it. Another idea, though, could be to make her de-stress time also together time. What if you agreed to take a walk around the neighborhood every day? Some time with you, but without you demanding anything mentally. It doesn't count if you're tricking her into thinking about financial plans, parenting problems, etc. You can do that some other time when this starts working. It's just "be together" time. No talking unless she wants to.
I know you probably are wanting more than that, but you might find that's energizing enough for her to come out of it on her own and be more like you had in mind. Trying to force it just makes you one of the stressors and one more thing to feel bad about being a failure at.
posted by ctmf at 9:23 AM on September 21, 2014 [20 favorites]
she ... eats junk food instead of meals...
Have you offered to cook breakfast and dinner and pack her lunches and snacks to take to work, based on her preferences, and not your opinions on what she should eat?
posted by BrashTech at 9:24 AM on September 21, 2014 [29 favorites]
Have you offered to cook breakfast and dinner and pack her lunches and snacks to take to work, based on her preferences, and not your opinions on what she should eat?
posted by BrashTech at 9:24 AM on September 21, 2014 [29 favorites]
I make slightly more money from my job than she does from her jobs put together, so it's not like I'm not doing my share financially
It's about time, not money when you're both working full-time and want to keep working. The person who works the shortest hours does more work at home, whether they earn more or not. It might be helpful for you to write down all the household and parenting things you both do and roughly assign time to them to see if you're doing 15 hours to her 20 hours or the reverse. I would be surprised if it turns out she has more free time than you.
posted by viggorlijah at 9:38 AM on September 21, 2014 [15 favorites]
It's about time, not money when you're both working full-time and want to keep working. The person who works the shortest hours does more work at home, whether they earn more or not. It might be helpful for you to write down all the household and parenting things you both do and roughly assign time to them to see if you're doing 15 hours to her 20 hours or the reverse. I would be surprised if it turns out she has more free time than you.
posted by viggorlijah at 9:38 AM on September 21, 2014 [15 favorites]
As someone who used to work like this, I have a couple of thoughts:
- Once someone gets into "work all the time" mode, it is hard to get out of it. It's like how, once you're hypervigilant, it is hard to know when the threat is over. For me, it has sometimes taken vacations to snap out of this mode. But even just a nice day at the park might help.
- This is a problem in her life, but it is much more so a problem for the two of you. Could you go to couples therapy? Eventually, she'll have to do a lot of work to figure out why she is experiencing so much stress, but in the meantime, she needs to understand and feel sympathy for the impact it's having on you.
- Eventually, she's going to have to want to change this to get very far. Wanting to change this and being able to are two different phases.
This is likely to be a long haul, my friend, based on my experience trying to change this in myself and then watching others try to change it. But even without her fully fixing the issue, a little awareness on her part may go a long way to ameliorate the resentment. That's the beauty of couples therapy; it goes right to the question of "how what's going on with her impacts you" and vice versa.
Best of luck. I can completely understand feeling resentful and wish you were getting a bit more sympathy in this thread.
By the way, did she experience post partum depression? Some of what you write sounds a bit like depression to me.
posted by salvia at 9:38 AM on September 21, 2014 [7 favorites]
- Once someone gets into "work all the time" mode, it is hard to get out of it. It's like how, once you're hypervigilant, it is hard to know when the threat is over. For me, it has sometimes taken vacations to snap out of this mode. But even just a nice day at the park might help.
- This is a problem in her life, but it is much more so a problem for the two of you. Could you go to couples therapy? Eventually, she'll have to do a lot of work to figure out why she is experiencing so much stress, but in the meantime, she needs to understand and feel sympathy for the impact it's having on you.
- Eventually, she's going to have to want to change this to get very far. Wanting to change this and being able to are two different phases.
This is likely to be a long haul, my friend, based on my experience trying to change this in myself and then watching others try to change it. But even without her fully fixing the issue, a little awareness on her part may go a long way to ameliorate the resentment. That's the beauty of couples therapy; it goes right to the question of "how what's going on with her impacts you" and vice versa.
Best of luck. I can completely understand feeling resentful and wish you were getting a bit more sympathy in this thread.
By the way, did she experience post partum depression? Some of what you write sounds a bit like depression to me.
posted by salvia at 9:38 AM on September 21, 2014 [7 favorites]
You say you're helping with childcare and household stuff, which is great and what every partner should do. Is she still the one managing it? Because having to keep track of household crap (along with actually doing it) can be quite stressful.
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 10:01 AM on September 21, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 10:01 AM on September 21, 2014 [8 favorites]
Nthing the suggestion that she may simply need uninterrupted alone time to decompress. I have an at times very stressful job and the constant interruptions this brings are very draining. When I last had a housemate, who was an extrovert having to work from home several days a week, I felt positively overwhelmed by the immediate onslaught of conversation that met me as soon as I walked through the door. And yes, sleep is about the only thing I have energy for when I come home. So also consider if she would find it easier to connect in the morning.
posted by koahiatamadl at 10:03 AM on September 21, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by koahiatamadl at 10:03 AM on September 21, 2014 [3 favorites]
The problem your wife could be having is larger than you and your marriage. Sometimes, for some women - and I count myself among this cohort - you have a kid and all of a sudden your world and the things in it that you have to account for, make sense of, track and feel a huge responsibility towards multiplies exponentially. You are attuned suddenly and entirely to this little person who is entirely dependent on you. And that dependence feels soooo natural and good and necessary to your own personal happiness on the one hand, and then on the other, it feels totally suffocating and draining and terrifying. Because, once, you were this free person whose time was your own, who had an interior life that you nurtured, who was curious, who could sleep, who could close the door when going to the bathroom without little fists pounding on the outside. Now, you're half of a whole, and you're the half that gets bossed around all the time, hit and bitten now and again, yelled at indiscriminately, slobbered and splattered on, demanded of and expected to constantly make things right with the world. OH, and you're supposed to have infinite patience and personal resources, and you're supposed to be entirely selfless. And here is the thing - YOU actually expect these things of yourself MORE than anyone else.
And let us not forget the biology of motherhood. The hormonal tidal wave, then desert and then tidal wave, and on and on. Let us not forget that it's possible she doesn't even recognize herself anymore because her physiology is now a complete mystery to her, not to mention her body the way she once knew and depended on it done up and left.
And what could make all of that worse? If you cannot even be present for your kid the way you want to be. You can't be there to have spaghetti tossed into your hair or go to the park to play bubbles because you need to contribute to the household and get out of debt AND MAYBE EVEN POSSIBLY HAVE THE CAREER YOU WANT TO HAVE. And then you feel guilty because you cannot be totally selfish and you cannot be totally selfless and you are in debt and you want your kid to have everything but what you'd really like is to take a private shit and go have a massage and maybe spend the night in a hotel so you could sleep in until the luxuriously late hour of 9 am.
And this is all before you even BEGIN to start wishing you could have the kind of marriage you want, and be the sort of partner to your partner that you want to be.
I bring all of this up to say that you are wanting from your wife things that we all want from our partners. But it is possible that your wife is out of balance because this is part of the human condition when you go from being one person to, effectively, two.
Instead of giving advice, I would tell my wife I appreciated that she was working so hard. I would ask her if she wanted to look at our life and find places to pare away some of the struggle and, instead, find ways we could maximize fun and joy and relaxation. I would tell her that I miss her and that I recognize that she has things she wants and needs, and reassure her that I want those things for her. I would ask her if she wants to talk. And if she does, I'd listen. If not, I'd say, that's totally fine right now but could we find a time in the next couple of days? And go from there.
Then I might suggest one night per week when we get a sitter and go out for dinner or drinks or to listen to a band or go to a movie. I'd tell her it was important to me to have some alone time with her because I love her and miss being around her. I'd tell her I'd rather have a little more debt for a little bit longer if it means feeling close to her again the way I used to feel.
You're doing a lot. But she's doing a lot, too. It's possible she's obsessing about all the work stuff because she is having trouble understanding why she feels so differently about herself now. Start asking questions and listening rather than giving speeches or tips. And if it still doesn't work, then I'd start suggesting couples therapy, not because she's failing you but because you love her and you want your marriage to work.
Good luck.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 10:11 AM on September 21, 2014 [42 favorites]
And let us not forget the biology of motherhood. The hormonal tidal wave, then desert and then tidal wave, and on and on. Let us not forget that it's possible she doesn't even recognize herself anymore because her physiology is now a complete mystery to her, not to mention her body the way she once knew and depended on it done up and left.
And what could make all of that worse? If you cannot even be present for your kid the way you want to be. You can't be there to have spaghetti tossed into your hair or go to the park to play bubbles because you need to contribute to the household and get out of debt AND MAYBE EVEN POSSIBLY HAVE THE CAREER YOU WANT TO HAVE. And then you feel guilty because you cannot be totally selfish and you cannot be totally selfless and you are in debt and you want your kid to have everything but what you'd really like is to take a private shit and go have a massage and maybe spend the night in a hotel so you could sleep in until the luxuriously late hour of 9 am.
And this is all before you even BEGIN to start wishing you could have the kind of marriage you want, and be the sort of partner to your partner that you want to be.
I bring all of this up to say that you are wanting from your wife things that we all want from our partners. But it is possible that your wife is out of balance because this is part of the human condition when you go from being one person to, effectively, two.
Instead of giving advice, I would tell my wife I appreciated that she was working so hard. I would ask her if she wanted to look at our life and find places to pare away some of the struggle and, instead, find ways we could maximize fun and joy and relaxation. I would tell her that I miss her and that I recognize that she has things she wants and needs, and reassure her that I want those things for her. I would ask her if she wants to talk. And if she does, I'd listen. If not, I'd say, that's totally fine right now but could we find a time in the next couple of days? And go from there.
Then I might suggest one night per week when we get a sitter and go out for dinner or drinks or to listen to a band or go to a movie. I'd tell her it was important to me to have some alone time with her because I love her and miss being around her. I'd tell her I'd rather have a little more debt for a little bit longer if it means feeling close to her again the way I used to feel.
You're doing a lot. But she's doing a lot, too. It's possible she's obsessing about all the work stuff because she is having trouble understanding why she feels so differently about herself now. Start asking questions and listening rather than giving speeches or tips. And if it still doesn't work, then I'd start suggesting couples therapy, not because she's failing you but because you love her and you want your marriage to work.
Good luck.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 10:11 AM on September 21, 2014 [42 favorites]
What is she coming home to? When she walks in the door, what is there to greet her? What expectations is she walking into? How is she welcomed?
Do you have dinner ready for her? It would be difficult to overstate how important food is to well being, from the lizard brain all the way on up. Coming home to a homecooked meal can make a world of difference. It draws a clear line between the working day and downtime. It signals security and safety and satisfaction. Not only do you get the comfort signals just from having sufficient food, but it's an important family bonding tool as well. Cooking for someone is taking care of them. It signals comfort, security, and affection.
If she's eating junk food as comfort, it sounds like food is a powerful tool for her. So if you're not doing it already, try making sure that she has a nice homecooked meal ready for her when she gets home.
And as much as possible, make yourself low maintenance when she first walks in the door. Let her decompress using whatever tools she needs, even if you don't understand them. When he's overwhelmed and stressed out, my partner yells at video games (he might also be playing them--I dunno) or watches the same TV shows he's seen a million times before. I don't get it, but that's OK. I just take that as a signal that he needs his downtime, and I stay out of his hair for a while. Everyone needs downtime and everyone has their own ways of getting it.
Also, note that there can be a very fine line between 'modeling' behaviors and rubbing someone's nose in them. It sounds like her boss is initiating off-hours communication, not her, so she's not choosing to bring work home--it's following her there. So if you're modeling work-life balance by not having a boss who bothers you at home, that's likely to serve as a reminder of how much her current situation sucks.
If you're in this for the long haul, step up as best you can to support her right now through this stressful period. This isn't the time for adding the stresses of a self-improvement project.
posted by ernielundquist at 10:36 AM on September 21, 2014 [12 favorites]
Do you have dinner ready for her? It would be difficult to overstate how important food is to well being, from the lizard brain all the way on up. Coming home to a homecooked meal can make a world of difference. It draws a clear line between the working day and downtime. It signals security and safety and satisfaction. Not only do you get the comfort signals just from having sufficient food, but it's an important family bonding tool as well. Cooking for someone is taking care of them. It signals comfort, security, and affection.
If she's eating junk food as comfort, it sounds like food is a powerful tool for her. So if you're not doing it already, try making sure that she has a nice homecooked meal ready for her when she gets home.
And as much as possible, make yourself low maintenance when she first walks in the door. Let her decompress using whatever tools she needs, even if you don't understand them. When he's overwhelmed and stressed out, my partner yells at video games (he might also be playing them--I dunno) or watches the same TV shows he's seen a million times before. I don't get it, but that's OK. I just take that as a signal that he needs his downtime, and I stay out of his hair for a while. Everyone needs downtime and everyone has their own ways of getting it.
Also, note that there can be a very fine line between 'modeling' behaviors and rubbing someone's nose in them. It sounds like her boss is initiating off-hours communication, not her, so she's not choosing to bring work home--it's following her there. So if you're modeling work-life balance by not having a boss who bothers you at home, that's likely to serve as a reminder of how much her current situation sucks.
If you're in this for the long haul, step up as best you can to support her right now through this stressful period. This isn't the time for adding the stresses of a self-improvement project.
posted by ernielundquist at 10:36 AM on September 21, 2014 [12 favorites]
I'm not married and don't have kids, but I do see a decent number of similarities between this situation and the one that I've had with my girlfriend for many years.
First thing I can say is that trying to find her her own therapist is a dead end. I've tried it. Multiple times. The thing we're doing differently now is going to proper couples/marriage counseling. It's still a bumpy road, but what it offers is the opportunity for both of you to say things to each other in a moderated, controlled environment. My girlfriend also has some habits I think are legitimately bad for her, her future, and our future, and I have basic needs I don't feel are being fulfilled in the relationship. I tried for many years to talk these things out at home and got little response.
I don't think you sound selfish or unreasonable. I think you're trying to make helpful suggestions. I think the problem is just that you're going to invariably been seen as a tainted counselor by someone so close. I've offered many attempts at well-thought-out suggestions and compromises (well-thought-out, in my opinion, which doesn't necessarily mean they aren't good ideas) that have fallen on deaf ears. I finally realized that this was getting me nowhere, so I just stopped communicating, but that just led to us drifting farther apart until I realized we needed to have a professional we could work with or things would become unsalvageable.
Working with a professional third party allows the other person to say things they might not want to say to you alone where they can't know how the situation will proceed from there. A good therapist will encourage both sides to talk and not let one side (almost always me, in my case) talk too much and dominate the conversation. The therapist should help you both agree on little goals for the coming week or month and since you're paying for the help, that sorts of holds you to account to ACTUALLY work on things. My couples counselor had us both do personality tests that led to a customized, structured program of things for us to talk about and homework for us to do. I like the approach, because sessions that don't have a goal or something definitive to talk about--"What do you want to talk about this week?" is no good--can be wastes of time and money and actually make you feel worse for the rest of the week. Goals and structure. I repeat, goals and structure.
You say your wife spends an excessive amount of time checking emails and on Facebook when she's at home. I think most people will admit that Facebook can be highly addictive and email addiction has been documented for years. I am not a therapist and not calling your wife a diagnosable addict, but from years of personal experience, I can say that compulsive behavior like this is poison to a relationship, ESPECIALLY when there's not much time for two people to be together. I'm going to hazard a guess that, even in her "free" or "down" time, you feel like your wife is still "fully scheduled" (and you're not a part of it) because she could go off to checking her email or Facebook at ANY time that you two could have together.
That has to be talked about with your marriage counselor and soon. If there's agreement that this is a problem, THEN the three of you talk about whether she needs a separate counselor (and you may need a separate counselor for different issues; I certainly do) IN ADDITION to your couples counseling. What's important is to be honest in sessions, and if something continues to bug you, you can't just try to sweep it under the rug if your first attempt at discussion doesn't go that well. It may just be necessary to approach things from a different angle ("I feel this way" is better than "YOU always do this") or in smaller steps. Your therapist will guide you.
In the meantime, I would NOT try to open the lines of communication by getting more on Facebook with your wife. a) That's not the type of communication you guys need. b) If she does have a compulsive problem with it, you will be muddying the waters of your conversation about it by feeding into what you see as a problem. I was told a very similar thing by an addiction counselor I talked to regarding my girlfriend, and you should defer to your therapist's advice on this matter.
Okay, so this has been long, but, like I said, I feel like I've seen a lot of this before. Let me put it clearly, though: you two NEED marriage counseling NOW. There are various price options out there. If you can find a group of therapists, they might be organized enough to be able to take insurance; most individual therapists will NOT take insurance, because it's waaaay too much of a hassle for them to deal with alone. (My suggestion: see if there's a Samaritan counseling group in your area.) REGARDLESS, do NOT let the cost or time commitment become a stumbling block to pursuing therapy, because things aren't going to get better on their own, and the sooner you start to deal with everything, the less damage will be done. Even if each one of you is doing an individual session AND a couples session, just do what needs to be done. Period. Do them every two weeks if that's frequent enough for you and is easier to schedule. Just don't let this fester, because "fester" is the right term for what's going to happen in this situation, and festering just leads to much worse things down the line. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to talk more.
posted by KinoAndHermes at 11:15 AM on September 21, 2014 [3 favorites]
First thing I can say is that trying to find her her own therapist is a dead end. I've tried it. Multiple times. The thing we're doing differently now is going to proper couples/marriage counseling. It's still a bumpy road, but what it offers is the opportunity for both of you to say things to each other in a moderated, controlled environment. My girlfriend also has some habits I think are legitimately bad for her, her future, and our future, and I have basic needs I don't feel are being fulfilled in the relationship. I tried for many years to talk these things out at home and got little response.
I don't think you sound selfish or unreasonable. I think you're trying to make helpful suggestions. I think the problem is just that you're going to invariably been seen as a tainted counselor by someone so close. I've offered many attempts at well-thought-out suggestions and compromises (well-thought-out, in my opinion, which doesn't necessarily mean they aren't good ideas) that have fallen on deaf ears. I finally realized that this was getting me nowhere, so I just stopped communicating, but that just led to us drifting farther apart until I realized we needed to have a professional we could work with or things would become unsalvageable.
Working with a professional third party allows the other person to say things they might not want to say to you alone where they can't know how the situation will proceed from there. A good therapist will encourage both sides to talk and not let one side (almost always me, in my case) talk too much and dominate the conversation. The therapist should help you both agree on little goals for the coming week or month and since you're paying for the help, that sorts of holds you to account to ACTUALLY work on things. My couples counselor had us both do personality tests that led to a customized, structured program of things for us to talk about and homework for us to do. I like the approach, because sessions that don't have a goal or something definitive to talk about--"What do you want to talk about this week?" is no good--can be wastes of time and money and actually make you feel worse for the rest of the week. Goals and structure. I repeat, goals and structure.
You say your wife spends an excessive amount of time checking emails and on Facebook when she's at home. I think most people will admit that Facebook can be highly addictive and email addiction has been documented for years. I am not a therapist and not calling your wife a diagnosable addict, but from years of personal experience, I can say that compulsive behavior like this is poison to a relationship, ESPECIALLY when there's not much time for two people to be together. I'm going to hazard a guess that, even in her "free" or "down" time, you feel like your wife is still "fully scheduled" (and you're not a part of it) because she could go off to checking her email or Facebook at ANY time that you two could have together.
That has to be talked about with your marriage counselor and soon. If there's agreement that this is a problem, THEN the three of you talk about whether she needs a separate counselor (and you may need a separate counselor for different issues; I certainly do) IN ADDITION to your couples counseling. What's important is to be honest in sessions, and if something continues to bug you, you can't just try to sweep it under the rug if your first attempt at discussion doesn't go that well. It may just be necessary to approach things from a different angle ("I feel this way" is better than "YOU always do this") or in smaller steps. Your therapist will guide you.
In the meantime, I would NOT try to open the lines of communication by getting more on Facebook with your wife. a) That's not the type of communication you guys need. b) If she does have a compulsive problem with it, you will be muddying the waters of your conversation about it by feeding into what you see as a problem. I was told a very similar thing by an addiction counselor I talked to regarding my girlfriend, and you should defer to your therapist's advice on this matter.
Okay, so this has been long, but, like I said, I feel like I've seen a lot of this before. Let me put it clearly, though: you two NEED marriage counseling NOW. There are various price options out there. If you can find a group of therapists, they might be organized enough to be able to take insurance; most individual therapists will NOT take insurance, because it's waaaay too much of a hassle for them to deal with alone. (My suggestion: see if there's a Samaritan counseling group in your area.) REGARDLESS, do NOT let the cost or time commitment become a stumbling block to pursuing therapy, because things aren't going to get better on their own, and the sooner you start to deal with everything, the less damage will be done. Even if each one of you is doing an individual session AND a couples session, just do what needs to be done. Period. Do them every two weeks if that's frequent enough for you and is easier to schedule. Just don't let this fester, because "fester" is the right term for what's going to happen in this situation, and festering just leads to much worse things down the line. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to talk more.
posted by KinoAndHermes at 11:15 AM on September 21, 2014 [3 favorites]
I've been on both sides of your equation. My husband was addicted to work and eating Doritos for years while I was improving my diet and exercise, then I got a higher-stress job, he dialed back on his and became a martial arts/health nut and suddenly I am the one unable to unplug at the end of the night and eating chips due to cortisol. We have a 9 yr old and a 3 yr old.
First, this is not a willpower issue. It's kind of a sick society issue, and it goes way beyond you both. Two adults, three jobs and a toddler is exhausting for all of you. Human beings are not biologically wired for the way we live right now. Sure, she could respond by running marathons to destress, but if she could I am sure she would. (See everything above about biology and birth.) That said, it is lousy to be either spouse in this situation.
It is really awesome that right now you have the right end of the life-work balance stick. If your boss suddenly changed or your role changed, you might not. The same goes for her; I bet if she felt more secure or had a job (jobs?) with better boundaries of time -- not sure if she has grading, etc. -- she would achieve better balance. I think a key part to getting through this time is to acknowledge that this is a really super-stressful time for your family. Just keep reiterating that. Keep your own balance. It's great. Have some faith she will find her own over time.
I agree with the advice to see if all the jobs are necessary. If they are, then I would try two things. One is, can you both work together to have a "date night" at home after kidlet is in bed once a week, regardless? She may not make it a few times, but if you can try. For my husband and I, takeout/appetizers/popcorn + Netflix + sex with no logging into email one night a week after the kids are in bed makes a serious world of difference. I had to approach this really mildly with numerous invitations before it started happening.
Some other killer family destress things that work for us and may help you:
- picnics and walks in the park/down the street as a family, even in the morning before going off to work/daycare
- we have a chalkboard wall and an easel set up to draw/paint together just a few minutes a day...something about the tactile nature helps, and with a little kid it helps a lot
- setting some time aside to be active as a family; we do a 45 min family swim on Sundays, which may not be possible for you right now
- rolling around in bed together laughing, with coffee brought by one spouse to the other
- texting little jokey or sweet comments during the day
- building in 5 minutes of "breathing time" after work. (I park at a lake view spot on my way home.)
I really feel for you a lot, it is a hard time. Things get better as kids get older in some ways, so there is that.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:23 PM on September 21, 2014 [9 favorites]
First, this is not a willpower issue. It's kind of a sick society issue, and it goes way beyond you both. Two adults, three jobs and a toddler is exhausting for all of you. Human beings are not biologically wired for the way we live right now. Sure, she could respond by running marathons to destress, but if she could I am sure she would. (See everything above about biology and birth.) That said, it is lousy to be either spouse in this situation.
It is really awesome that right now you have the right end of the life-work balance stick. If your boss suddenly changed or your role changed, you might not. The same goes for her; I bet if she felt more secure or had a job (jobs?) with better boundaries of time -- not sure if she has grading, etc. -- she would achieve better balance. I think a key part to getting through this time is to acknowledge that this is a really super-stressful time for your family. Just keep reiterating that. Keep your own balance. It's great. Have some faith she will find her own over time.
I agree with the advice to see if all the jobs are necessary. If they are, then I would try two things. One is, can you both work together to have a "date night" at home after kidlet is in bed once a week, regardless? She may not make it a few times, but if you can try. For my husband and I, takeout/appetizers/popcorn + Netflix + sex with no logging into email one night a week after the kids are in bed makes a serious world of difference. I had to approach this really mildly with numerous invitations before it started happening.
Some other killer family destress things that work for us and may help you:
- picnics and walks in the park/down the street as a family, even in the morning before going off to work/daycare
- we have a chalkboard wall and an easel set up to draw/paint together just a few minutes a day...something about the tactile nature helps, and with a little kid it helps a lot
- setting some time aside to be active as a family; we do a 45 min family swim on Sundays, which may not be possible for you right now
- rolling around in bed together laughing, with coffee brought by one spouse to the other
- texting little jokey or sweet comments during the day
- building in 5 minutes of "breathing time" after work. (I park at a lake view spot on my way home.)
I really feel for you a lot, it is a hard time. Things get better as kids get older in some ways, so there is that.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:23 PM on September 21, 2014 [9 favorites]
Your description emphasizes what you have suggested and/or modeled for her, but it doesn't say that you have asked her how she is feeling and what she wants and needs. Maybe you've done that, but that's not where the emphasis lies - especially the boldfaced part about her being extremely defensive and reacting badly to advice and criticism.
It would be a good idea for you to have a conversation that starts with how she is feeling about this situation, and how you feel. For example, instead of saying that she is obese and eating junk food, say that you feel concerned about her health when she doesn't have time for a proper meal. Find out how she feels about what you're doing in the relationship, too. Your description makes it seem like you're pulling most of the weight at home. That may be true, and she may be feeling guilty about that (guilt often comes out as anger or resentment), or she may be doing a lot of things that she thinks are necessary but you don't necessarily notice.
It sounds like your family is in a tough situation right now. If it really is temporary, you can probably tough it out, but being open about what each of you is feeling is likely to help.
One relatively minor suggestion (though everything can help a bit): does your gym offer day care? Friends of mine joined the local YMCA because it offers day care, so one of them can work out when the other is at work or traveling for work; the kids have fun playing with other kids and the parent gets to destress with a workout.
Good luck!
posted by brianogilvie at 1:46 PM on September 21, 2014 [3 favorites]
It would be a good idea for you to have a conversation that starts with how she is feeling about this situation, and how you feel. For example, instead of saying that she is obese and eating junk food, say that you feel concerned about her health when she doesn't have time for a proper meal. Find out how she feels about what you're doing in the relationship, too. Your description makes it seem like you're pulling most of the weight at home. That may be true, and she may be feeling guilty about that (guilt often comes out as anger or resentment), or she may be doing a lot of things that she thinks are necessary but you don't necessarily notice.
It sounds like your family is in a tough situation right now. If it really is temporary, you can probably tough it out, but being open about what each of you is feeling is likely to help.
One relatively minor suggestion (though everything can help a bit): does your gym offer day care? Friends of mine joined the local YMCA because it offers day care, so one of them can work out when the other is at work or traveling for work; the kids have fun playing with other kids and the parent gets to destress with a workout.
Good luck!
posted by brianogilvie at 1:46 PM on September 21, 2014 [3 favorites]
Instead of being subtle, tell her straight on that you think she is extremely stressed and needs strategies to tackle that. All these great suggestions you have are not hitting her correctly. And, a lot of the complaints you have are over how you are not getting what you want from her-attention, etc. which is understandable however you are frustrated your needs are not being met more than what the stress is doing to her.
Get a hobby like reading so you are less focused on your wife's stress. How is your life in general and how do you deal with stress? Do you exercise? Do you have a routine? That might inspire her to do the same. However the only change that will come in her life will be from her. Unless she wants to change, things are not going to change.
posted by jellyjam at 2:15 PM on September 21, 2014
Get a hobby like reading so you are less focused on your wife's stress. How is your life in general and how do you deal with stress? Do you exercise? Do you have a routine? That might inspire her to do the same. However the only change that will come in her life will be from her. Unless she wants to change, things are not going to change.
posted by jellyjam at 2:15 PM on September 21, 2014
She stays up late on facebook, she eats junk food instead of meals, she keeps checking her work email and responding to her boss at all hours and on weekends, etc. Those are all opt-in behavioral choices, and maladaptive ones. Those need to change.
I think you guys need to seriously de-prioritize your debt-reduction efforts. So you'll be paying more interest on credit cards or what have you for a few years? Big deal. Re-prioritize quality of life. Which would include prioritizing finding a way to reduce your wife's professional workload and hours.
If this pattern continues, she and you may not be a team for much longer. It can't be sustained. I think you should insist on seeing a family therapist together, for at least x-amount of sessions, to work this situation out. It may feel like "just another responsibility" to her, but that's what she (and you) signed up for when you got engaged, married, and had a kid. You are allowed to be firm here.
And others may disagree, but it's also OK for you to be firm with her about not being spoken to in a snippy or derisive way. That is team-destroying behavior. Either she's on Team You, Her, And Baby, or she is checked out.
posted by nacho fries at 3:04 PM on September 21, 2014 [4 favorites]
I think you guys need to seriously de-prioritize your debt-reduction efforts. So you'll be paying more interest on credit cards or what have you for a few years? Big deal. Re-prioritize quality of life. Which would include prioritizing finding a way to reduce your wife's professional workload and hours.
If this pattern continues, she and you may not be a team for much longer. It can't be sustained. I think you should insist on seeing a family therapist together, for at least x-amount of sessions, to work this situation out. It may feel like "just another responsibility" to her, but that's what she (and you) signed up for when you got engaged, married, and had a kid. You are allowed to be firm here.
And others may disagree, but it's also OK for you to be firm with her about not being spoken to in a snippy or derisive way. That is team-destroying behavior. Either she's on Team You, Her, And Baby, or she is checked out.
posted by nacho fries at 3:04 PM on September 21, 2014 [4 favorites]
Why not ask your wife what would help her relax, and then facilitate those things?
Instead of giving her shit about bedtime, why not work with her to establish an end-of-day routine that will push her toward bed at a reasonable hour? Something that revolves around what she finds relaxing before bed (I like podcasts or quiet TV like Charlie Rose or something), not a performance of Optimal Family Lifestyle she has to enact for you.
Instead of giving her shit about what she eats, why not facilitate her eating on the go by stocking up on convenient stuff she enjoys eating? One thing that is really hard for me, personally, is that I like the idea of cooking meals from scratch, but I don't have time for it and rarely choose to do that over facebook, TV, talking to a friend, etc. So I buy kale and then it slowly goes bad in the fridge while I pick up McDonald's on the way home. One thing that has helped put a stop to that has been to admit I'm not going to cook a real meal and give myself permission to stock up on convenience foods I will actually eat. If I know there's pre-packaged curry and pre-cooked rice waiting for me at home, I'll have that rather than fast food.
Re the gym stuff, rather than judging how she uses her free time (gym = good, facebook = bad), why not just give her a chunk of time to use as she pleases, no questions asked? What if she could take the hour she'd spend in therapy and just do whatever?
posted by Sara C. at 5:03 PM on September 21, 2014 [5 favorites]
Instead of giving her shit about bedtime, why not work with her to establish an end-of-day routine that will push her toward bed at a reasonable hour? Something that revolves around what she finds relaxing before bed (I like podcasts or quiet TV like Charlie Rose or something), not a performance of Optimal Family Lifestyle she has to enact for you.
Instead of giving her shit about what she eats, why not facilitate her eating on the go by stocking up on convenient stuff she enjoys eating? One thing that is really hard for me, personally, is that I like the idea of cooking meals from scratch, but I don't have time for it and rarely choose to do that over facebook, TV, talking to a friend, etc. So I buy kale and then it slowly goes bad in the fridge while I pick up McDonald's on the way home. One thing that has helped put a stop to that has been to admit I'm not going to cook a real meal and give myself permission to stock up on convenience foods I will actually eat. If I know there's pre-packaged curry and pre-cooked rice waiting for me at home, I'll have that rather than fast food.
Re the gym stuff, rather than judging how she uses her free time (gym = good, facebook = bad), why not just give her a chunk of time to use as she pleases, no questions asked? What if she could take the hour she'd spend in therapy and just do whatever?
posted by Sara C. at 5:03 PM on September 21, 2014 [5 favorites]
If you're at the gym, or relaxing, where is the kid? Where is your partner? Good work-life balance can come at the cost of your partner's work-life balance because parenting and household management occupy both slots. Same with 'good' sleep habits and things like that. And if your kid is at the gym childcare there's a really massive honking chance that your partner doesn't want to add even more daycare to the kid's life for the sake of something as unappealing as the gym (I say this as someone who does go to the gym but I loathe putting my kid in childcare for it).
posted by geek anachronism at 6:32 PM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by geek anachronism at 6:32 PM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
Her life, as you describe it, sounds like my version of hell. She works all the time. She has no downtime. She is always stressed about money and debt. She doesn't even get to see her child. She can't even take the time to take care of herself. This is horrible. There is nothing that you can do to make her feel better other than to make her take a few weeks off. The debt is going to be there one way or the other but, if you don't allow your wife to have some quality of life, she isn't going to be there at all. Either she is going to figure out that her life would be easier if she left you with the debt and hooked you in for child support or she is going to die. Get a second job, sell your house and move in with a relative, cancel your damn gym membership and find a cheaper daycare for your child, whatever it takes to take some of the burden off of her. She is carrying too much.
posted by myselfasme at 7:57 PM on September 21, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by myselfasme at 7:57 PM on September 21, 2014 [6 favorites]
I just want to step in and say that, while your wife's situation sounds pretty shitty, I do understand where you're coming from. It's hard to watch someone you love make choices that you don't agree with.
If you can honestly assess that your share of the childcare and housework is more than fair, then I think that the issue is that your wife is probably stuck in spiral of worrying about money and trying to please her bosses. Is money tight? How much debt are we talking about? Can you guys meet with a financial planner or someone similar and help you come up with a workable plan?
It seems like she's waaay more worried about money than you are, and you guys need to agree on that.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 8:14 PM on September 21, 2014
If you can honestly assess that your share of the childcare and housework is more than fair, then I think that the issue is that your wife is probably stuck in spiral of worrying about money and trying to please her bosses. Is money tight? How much debt are we talking about? Can you guys meet with a financial planner or someone similar and help you come up with a workable plan?
It seems like she's waaay more worried about money than you are, and you guys need to agree on that.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 8:14 PM on September 21, 2014
So, I'm married to a teacher who is currently working 12-hour days, plus 2-3 hours after our baby goes to bed, and probably about 8 hours a day on weekends. I work full-time, too, but my workday is compressed into 7 hours right now, which means that I'm a whirlwind when I'm actually there, and I'm often fitting in bits of work in the early morning or late night. I'm doing childcare before and after, most meals, lots of cleaning, interfacing with caregivers, etc. My spouse is stressed, bitter that there isn't enough time for anything: not enough time to do a great job on work, not enough time for our kid, not enough time for relaxing alone OR together, not enough time for hobbies or adventures... It SUCKS. I can understand how you feel. Sometimes it's hard, in the midst of all the chaos, not to wonder where your spouses's priorities lie. And to feel like you're holding down the fort, doing so much, and somehow getting less credit because your life is apparently so much calmer and easier and less stressful. This type of situation is bad for everyone, and frankly it's only partially within your control, because the realities of working life in a bad economy are harsh, and with a young family, choices are limited. I'm so sorry.
But I would be you a huge sum that your wife is 100% aware of all of these issues and is turning herself inside out trying to please everybody, and just about going crazy with guilt and stress because she absolutely can't please everybody. DO NOT add to the judgment in her life. DO NOT wait for her to become sweet and affectionate with you before you reach out to her. DO NOT try to make her "get healthy" in any way right now. SHE NEEDS TO BE TAKEN CARE OF. Yes, you do too, but the reality of your situation is that you have more emotional energy available right now, and this will be a period of your life when you will give a lot. Give to her, give to your child, and give to yourself. YOU be the one to give her a kiss and a hug. YOU be the one to fix her a favorite food. YOU be the one to compliment her hard work and dedication. YOU be the one to empathize with her difficulties. Reach out first.
There's a delicate balance between ignoring your own needs and renouncing them for a while. I don't encourage martyring yourself or letting resentment fester. But consciously deciding that you have a little bit more in your "strategic emotional reserve" to help your family get through this tough spot - that's a noble renunciation. And I think you might find that you're stronger and more capable of giving than you think, and that your generosity might actually make all of you feel better.
In writing this answer, I've resolved to be more giving and brave in my own situation than I was before, because I trust that my partner is doing EVERYTHING possible and I know it won't last forever.
posted by Cygnet at 5:49 AM on September 22, 2014 [13 favorites]
But I would be you a huge sum that your wife is 100% aware of all of these issues and is turning herself inside out trying to please everybody, and just about going crazy with guilt and stress because she absolutely can't please everybody. DO NOT add to the judgment in her life. DO NOT wait for her to become sweet and affectionate with you before you reach out to her. DO NOT try to make her "get healthy" in any way right now. SHE NEEDS TO BE TAKEN CARE OF. Yes, you do too, but the reality of your situation is that you have more emotional energy available right now, and this will be a period of your life when you will give a lot. Give to her, give to your child, and give to yourself. YOU be the one to give her a kiss and a hug. YOU be the one to fix her a favorite food. YOU be the one to compliment her hard work and dedication. YOU be the one to empathize with her difficulties. Reach out first.
There's a delicate balance between ignoring your own needs and renouncing them for a while. I don't encourage martyring yourself or letting resentment fester. But consciously deciding that you have a little bit more in your "strategic emotional reserve" to help your family get through this tough spot - that's a noble renunciation. And I think you might find that you're stronger and more capable of giving than you think, and that your generosity might actually make all of you feel better.
In writing this answer, I've resolved to be more giving and brave in my own situation than I was before, because I trust that my partner is doing EVERYTHING possible and I know it won't last forever.
posted by Cygnet at 5:49 AM on September 22, 2014 [13 favorites]
My husband could have written this post about our marriage when our son was a toddler. We struggled and suffered our way, painfully, fruitlessly, for years - until these books came into our lives:
(for the husband) The Married Man Sex Life Primer - Athol Kay
(for both husband and wife) The Mindful Attraction Plan - Athol Kay
Kay has an unconventional, though well reasoned and tested, view on how relationships work. While his theories and methods may not work for everyone... I can attest that our marriage has improved by leaps and bounds in the last year through following the principles in the books above.
posted by Ardea alba at 7:50 AM on September 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
(for the husband) The Married Man Sex Life Primer - Athol Kay
(for both husband and wife) The Mindful Attraction Plan - Athol Kay
Kay has an unconventional, though well reasoned and tested, view on how relationships work. While his theories and methods may not work for everyone... I can attest that our marriage has improved by leaps and bounds in the last year through following the principles in the books above.
posted by Ardea alba at 7:50 AM on September 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
BTW, I can't recommend this book highly enough: "Equally Shared Parenting". Despite the current lopsidedness of our family situation, we've managed to be equal in many important ways, and we will be again soon, because we care about it. This book includes some suggestions for talking to workplaces about cutting down hours, etc. It's not possible for everyone - teachers can't really work from home or cut down to 30 hours a week! - but even so, the whole book can be really helpful. It also talks about the importance of equal leisure time.
posted by Cygnet at 7:56 AM on September 22, 2014
posted by Cygnet at 7:56 AM on September 22, 2014
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Kriesa at 6:29 AM on September 21, 2014 [12 favorites]