How much of an explanation do I owe this guy after one date?
June 20, 2015 6:43 AM Subscribe
I went out with a guy from OKCupid who seemed awkward but raised no huge red flags. Less than a week later, he got weird and I'm no longer interested. Do I need to tell him this?
I've recently decided to enter the dating world again, and after some time on OKCupid, I received a message from a guy we'll call "Adam." Adam did seem awkward, as he said things like "Wow talking to you is a breath of fresh air!" but otherwise didn't do anything crazy or out of the ordinary, so I accepted a breakfast date with him. We went on the date at a casual restaurant, and I'd say it was 'fine," but he did nothing to make me write him off. I agreed to see him again for a picnic in a park. He was messaging me daily to say good morning, hope you're well, etc., and while I don't require the daily communication (I don't even talk to my best friend of the same sex that often), I was like well he seems interested so maybe I should give it time for something to happen.
Until earlier this week. Adam messaged me out of the blue asking if I could spare time to listen to him because he had an ill family member and was stressed, and he felt he needed me because I was a calming person and that looking forward to our next date keeps him going. While I felt sympathetic to his situation, I am simply not in a position to be emotionally available to someone I've known less than a week. I started a new job in a field unrelated to where I've worked before and have a lot to learn, and I might consider changing my path altogether. I also felt uncomfortable by how fast Adam came on and declared how badly he needs me. This was after initially saying he wants to move slow with a woman. He has not messaged me since, but after thinking about it, I've decided I no longer want to see him. We have not yet had our picnic, so I would like to cancel the date and end things.
While the consensus seems to be that I can slow fade or explain that I'm no longer available because of my new job, one person disagreed with me. She said she feels I need to tell Adam what he did wrong so he can learn and grow, plus communication is important for me too. She added that if I don't treat people the way I want to be treated, I'll have it difficult in life. After all, her husband initially overwhelmed her and came on too fast and now they've been married for three years, so she thinks this guy deserves another chance and explanation of his problem. However, I don't feel that kind of hand holding and guidance is necessary after one date. Adam and I are both adults after all.
I know communication is important in relationships, but after one breakfast meeting?
I've recently decided to enter the dating world again, and after some time on OKCupid, I received a message from a guy we'll call "Adam." Adam did seem awkward, as he said things like "Wow talking to you is a breath of fresh air!" but otherwise didn't do anything crazy or out of the ordinary, so I accepted a breakfast date with him. We went on the date at a casual restaurant, and I'd say it was 'fine," but he did nothing to make me write him off. I agreed to see him again for a picnic in a park. He was messaging me daily to say good morning, hope you're well, etc., and while I don't require the daily communication (I don't even talk to my best friend of the same sex that often), I was like well he seems interested so maybe I should give it time for something to happen.
Until earlier this week. Adam messaged me out of the blue asking if I could spare time to listen to him because he had an ill family member and was stressed, and he felt he needed me because I was a calming person and that looking forward to our next date keeps him going. While I felt sympathetic to his situation, I am simply not in a position to be emotionally available to someone I've known less than a week. I started a new job in a field unrelated to where I've worked before and have a lot to learn, and I might consider changing my path altogether. I also felt uncomfortable by how fast Adam came on and declared how badly he needs me. This was after initially saying he wants to move slow with a woman. He has not messaged me since, but after thinking about it, I've decided I no longer want to see him. We have not yet had our picnic, so I would like to cancel the date and end things.
While the consensus seems to be that I can slow fade or explain that I'm no longer available because of my new job, one person disagreed with me. She said she feels I need to tell Adam what he did wrong so he can learn and grow, plus communication is important for me too. She added that if I don't treat people the way I want to be treated, I'll have it difficult in life. After all, her husband initially overwhelmed her and came on too fast and now they've been married for three years, so she thinks this guy deserves another chance and explanation of his problem. However, I don't feel that kind of hand holding and guidance is necessary after one date. Adam and I are both adults after all.
I know communication is important in relationships, but after one breakfast meeting?
Nope! He doesn't deserve anything except politeness.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 6:54 AM on June 20, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by the agents of KAOS at 6:54 AM on June 20, 2015 [10 favorites]
The daily messaging alone, from a guy you've known for one date and one week, is over the line; add in the pushing you to be his what? emotional support system while he deals with a serious family problem? Nope, no second date, no anything else. Your idea of a slow fade and/or telling him you're unavailable because of your new job is a good one, and that's all you owe Adam.
Your friend seems to think that' because her husband rushed her and she fell for him, then that's fine for everyone --- but it isn't: what works for one couple doesn't necessarily work for all.
Go with your instincts: cancel the picnic, and tell Adam goodbye.
posted by easily confused at 7:09 AM on June 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
Your friend seems to think that' because her husband rushed her and she fell for him, then that's fine for everyone --- but it isn't: what works for one couple doesn't necessarily work for all.
Go with your instincts: cancel the picnic, and tell Adam goodbye.
posted by easily confused at 7:09 AM on June 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
While the consensus seems to be that I can slow fade or explain that I'm no longer available because of my new job, one person disagreed with me. She said she feels I need to tell Adam what he did wrong so he can learn and grow, plus communication is important for me too.
Here's my take on this...slow fade in a dating situation is MADDENING. Search dating questions right here on metafilter and you'll find dozens of people wondering if they're on the receiving end of a slow fade. It sucks, it's confusing, and I don't feel right putting another person through that. Especially not someone socially awkward. And especially not on okcupid where they can go and see you logging in and still being an active dating person, just not with them with zero explanation. Mean.
But I disagree with your friend who thinks you need to tell Adam what's wrong with him because it'll be good for both of you to grow, because jesus that's patronizing. And god, I am like SUPER condescending and even I think that's over the line.
Definitely stick with your gut on this and break the date, but be honest and above board about it to avoid hurt feelings. Just text him something like: "Hey, Adam. I've been thinking about it and I don't think it's a good idea for us to see each other again. I feel like we're moving at two different paces here and this just isn't something I'm looking for. You're a really sweet guy and I'm glad we got the chance to have breakfast together. See you around!"
I have un-next dated a few people like this, and the response has always, every time, been "That's ok, I understand. Thanks for being honest about it!" People just want to be treated with respect.
You get to keep your boundaries, he gets a concrete response. Win-win.
posted by phunniemee at 7:23 AM on June 20, 2015 [73 favorites]
Here's my take on this...slow fade in a dating situation is MADDENING. Search dating questions right here on metafilter and you'll find dozens of people wondering if they're on the receiving end of a slow fade. It sucks, it's confusing, and I don't feel right putting another person through that. Especially not someone socially awkward. And especially not on okcupid where they can go and see you logging in and still being an active dating person, just not with them with zero explanation. Mean.
But I disagree with your friend who thinks you need to tell Adam what's wrong with him because it'll be good for both of you to grow, because jesus that's patronizing. And god, I am like SUPER condescending and even I think that's over the line.
Definitely stick with your gut on this and break the date, but be honest and above board about it to avoid hurt feelings. Just text him something like: "Hey, Adam. I've been thinking about it and I don't think it's a good idea for us to see each other again. I feel like we're moving at two different paces here and this just isn't something I'm looking for. You're a really sweet guy and I'm glad we got the chance to have breakfast together. See you around!"
I have un-next dated a few people like this, and the response has always, every time, been "That's ok, I understand. Thanks for being honest about it!" People just want to be treated with respect.
You get to keep your boundaries, he gets a concrete response. Win-win.
posted by phunniemee at 7:23 AM on June 20, 2015 [73 favorites]
Adam has poor boundaries, and is putting pressure on you to care for his emotional needs. You are not responsible for him. You can be gently honest, as in phunnimee suggested.
posted by theora55 at 7:43 AM on June 20, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 7:43 AM on June 20, 2015 [7 favorites]
This kind of thing happens a lot with OkCupid dating, in my experience. There are some people who are clingy and awkward and will do this. I think you should take Phunnimee's advice. I don't think he is going to respond well if you tell him "what's wrong with him"; he may even try to improve to win you back. We all have to learn what's wrong with us by doing the work of being self-aware and can't rely on others to tell us, esp. if we cannot be receptive. I do agree that being direct and polite is best, not doing a slow fade.
posted by bearette at 8:06 AM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by bearette at 8:06 AM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Just tell him thanks for the date but you're not interested in continuing and that you wish him well. Don't say you're moving at different paces, don't polish it up to spare his feelings or give him a reason to challenge you. Be straightforward and say, "thanks for the date. I've decided against seeing you again and I wish you all the best." Don't offer up an excuse or say you're sorry, just be polite and firm and that's the end. No more responding after that. You had ONE DATE with this person. He's not yours to fix. Just move along.
posted by Kangaroo at 8:15 AM on June 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Kangaroo at 8:15 AM on June 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
Just send him a quick message and let him know you're not interested and need to cancel the second date.
I use OKCupid, and I never think the woman owes me an explanation for not wanting to go on a second date. So you don't owe him an explanation.
It would be fine to give an explanation, but you only have to do it if you want. If you do, keep it very concise — this isn't a breakup, it's just a first date that's like most first dates in that it isn't going to lead anywhere.
posted by John Cohen at 8:16 AM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
I use OKCupid, and I never think the woman owes me an explanation for not wanting to go on a second date. So you don't owe him an explanation.
It would be fine to give an explanation, but you only have to do it if you want. If you do, keep it very concise — this isn't a breakup, it's just a first date that's like most first dates in that it isn't going to lead anywhere.
posted by John Cohen at 8:16 AM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
And in response to your dissenting friend who urged you to follow the Golden Rule: I actually prefer not to get an explanation of why my offer for a second date is being rejected. I can think of a couple times when she did give me an explanation, and it wasn't actually useful — it didn't help me improve in any way. I just felt worse than I otherwise would have. So I think your friend might be misapplying the Golden Rule.
posted by John Cohen at 8:22 AM on June 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by John Cohen at 8:22 AM on June 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
Honestly, I think it's kind of cruel to tell someone you barely know what is so wrong with them. That's not coming from a place of trying to help them.
posted by Aranquis at 8:30 AM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Aranquis at 8:30 AM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best after-first date message I ever got:
"Thanks for meeting me for [breakfast] last week. I appreciate the invite to [picnic], but I just don't feel we are a good match. Wishing you all the best in your search!"
Straight, to the point, no BS. Didn't leave me wondering why. I appreciated the honesty and the green light to keep looking. You owe him no explanation.
posted by SquidLips at 8:32 AM on June 20, 2015 [25 favorites]
"Thanks for meeting me for [breakfast] last week. I appreciate the invite to [picnic], but I just don't feel we are a good match. Wishing you all the best in your search!"
Straight, to the point, no BS. Didn't leave me wondering why. I appreciated the honesty and the green light to keep looking. You owe him no explanation.
posted by SquidLips at 8:32 AM on June 20, 2015 [25 favorites]
You don't have a relationship with him, and you sound like you are definitely not interested in building one. I have very little to add to the agent of KAOS' excellent advice above ("you don't owe him anything but politeness.") by attempting to put some definition on "politeness."
It is polite, and a very good idea, to let him know that you don't want to continue dating him. You can accomplish this in many ways, so choose the way that is easiest for you. There is nothing wrong with replying to his last/next message with, "I'm sorry, but I don't want to continue seeing you."
We're I you (and I'm not, and I'm not even female, so take this for what it's worth), I would not offer an explanation. If you do, two things are likely to happen: 1) he will not believe you, and will think that the real reason is something much worse, and 2) he will argue with you. Neither of these outcomes is good for either of you.
You can end it with grace and tact without saying any more than you have to, and that is my advice to you: "I'm sorry that things are going so poorly for you right now. I know this must be hard to hear, but I'm not interested in seeing you anymore."
Cold? Heartless? Yes and yes. But consider this: is it any less heartless to carry on once your interest had waned, to continue to be emotionally available when you are not "feeling it?"
Once you have ended it, here are two songs that I suggest you play on a loop, until you can laugh about it: Nick Lowe's "Cruel to be Kind" and Bob Dylan's " It Ain't Me, Babe."
posted by Mr. Fig at 8:58 AM on June 20, 2015
It is polite, and a very good idea, to let him know that you don't want to continue dating him. You can accomplish this in many ways, so choose the way that is easiest for you. There is nothing wrong with replying to his last/next message with, "I'm sorry, but I don't want to continue seeing you."
We're I you (and I'm not, and I'm not even female, so take this for what it's worth), I would not offer an explanation. If you do, two things are likely to happen: 1) he will not believe you, and will think that the real reason is something much worse, and 2) he will argue with you. Neither of these outcomes is good for either of you.
You can end it with grace and tact without saying any more than you have to, and that is my advice to you: "I'm sorry that things are going so poorly for you right now. I know this must be hard to hear, but I'm not interested in seeing you anymore."
Cold? Heartless? Yes and yes. But consider this: is it any less heartless to carry on once your interest had waned, to continue to be emotionally available when you are not "feeling it?"
Once you have ended it, here are two songs that I suggest you play on a loop, until you can laugh about it: Nick Lowe's "Cruel to be Kind" and Bob Dylan's " It Ain't Me, Babe."
posted by Mr. Fig at 8:58 AM on June 20, 2015
Response by poster: Part of my concern was sounding heartless. I'm trying to assimilate back to dating after some years of not caring about it, and I think my first thought was..."I can't believe I'm doing this to the guy after he wrote me about how his family member is so ill." For what it's worth, he hasn't messaged again since begging for my help. So either he's attending to his family or realized that he needed to back off.
I don't believe Adam is dangerous (Google didn't really turn back much on him, as he doesn't have any social media other than Facebook and he didn't appear in any crime stories or anything), but right now, I am grateful that I did not give him my phone number or let him know where I lived. He asked about driving me home from our first date, but I declined and took my own way back, as I had somewhere else to be that day anyway.
The good news is that soon enough, I'm going on a date with an available guy friend, "Ben," that I've known in person for a few months; we met through a shared leisure activity. I didn't feel interest in him right away, but he seems to have a lot of life ambition and desires and seemed mature for his age. (He's about nine years younger than me.) When it was my birthday the other day, Ben responded to a status I wrote about it by saying he'd see me soon and he's looking forward to planning around my new job schedule. That's enthusiasm I can deal with, especially as he's very non-clingy.
I have not had a lot of luck with OKCupid anyway, so it might be time to deactivate for a while. Most of the other messages I've gotten are "Hi how r u?" or "Hi I'm John, what's up?" So even though Ben and I aren't in a relationship by any means, I think it might be best to darken my profile while I date him, and if we don't work out as a couple and stay friends, then I will go back to the site.
posted by intheigloo at 10:35 AM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't believe Adam is dangerous (Google didn't really turn back much on him, as he doesn't have any social media other than Facebook and he didn't appear in any crime stories or anything), but right now, I am grateful that I did not give him my phone number or let him know where I lived. He asked about driving me home from our first date, but I declined and took my own way back, as I had somewhere else to be that day anyway.
The good news is that soon enough, I'm going on a date with an available guy friend, "Ben," that I've known in person for a few months; we met through a shared leisure activity. I didn't feel interest in him right away, but he seems to have a lot of life ambition and desires and seemed mature for his age. (He's about nine years younger than me.) When it was my birthday the other day, Ben responded to a status I wrote about it by saying he'd see me soon and he's looking forward to planning around my new job schedule. That's enthusiasm I can deal with, especially as he's very non-clingy.
I have not had a lot of luck with OKCupid anyway, so it might be time to deactivate for a while. Most of the other messages I've gotten are "Hi how r u?" or "Hi I'm John, what's up?" So even though Ben and I aren't in a relationship by any means, I think it might be best to darken my profile while I date him, and if we don't work out as a couple and stay friends, then I will go back to the site.
posted by intheigloo at 10:35 AM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
As a straight guy who has done his fair share of online dating on OKC, and who is awkward, I appreciate that you want to be nice. While I would personally prefer that sort of direct honesty so that I can change and become a better or less awkward person, I've also come to realize that most people don't actually want that, either to give or receive that honesty. I'd say your "obligation" to a person regarding dating and breaking up is lower the fewer interactions you've had. After some back and forth messaging and one date, your obligation is essentially nil.
I say that as a person who hates to be ghosted and thus absolutely avoids doing it to others. I say that as a person who prefers honesty and would generally appreciate constructive criticism. I think it would generally be ethical for you (after one date) to ghost him, but that the best thing for you to do is to give him a simple message along the lines of: "Hey, you seem like a nice person and I'm really sorry about your family troubles. But I'm just not feeling it. Best of luck in the future."
It might seem callous, but it's the best possible option IMO.
posted by X-Himy at 11:25 AM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
I say that as a person who hates to be ghosted and thus absolutely avoids doing it to others. I say that as a person who prefers honesty and would generally appreciate constructive criticism. I think it would generally be ethical for you (after one date) to ghost him, but that the best thing for you to do is to give him a simple message along the lines of: "Hey, you seem like a nice person and I'm really sorry about your family troubles. But I'm just not feeling it. Best of luck in the future."
It might seem callous, but it's the best possible option IMO.
posted by X-Himy at 11:25 AM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
I just had a really similar situation where I kinda liked the guy but one red flag got me thinking and the second red flag, after our first date but before the second, REALLY turned me off and I wrote him a note saying "not a good match" basically but without mentioning the flags. He wrote me like five times asking for reasons and I didn't respond, which I think is best.
A few people casually mentioned that maybe I should tell him the flags so he could improve, but I reflected and really didn't think it was a good idea. I felt like he projected way too much on me on the first date to feel like he would take any advice from me at all well or rationally.
posted by sweetkid at 11:53 AM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
A few people casually mentioned that maybe I should tell him the flags so he could improve, but I reflected and really didn't think it was a good idea. I felt like he projected way too much on me on the first date to feel like he would take any advice from me at all well or rationally.
posted by sweetkid at 11:53 AM on June 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
IMO, ghosting is fine up until after you've met in person, barring any glaring red flags or general axe murdering vibes. After that, it's absolutely not ok — it's true you don't owe him much, but you owe it to him to tell him straight up, hey, I don't think this is gonna work out, and leave it at that. An explanation isn't at all necessary, and as others've said, I doubt it'd be well received, nor would it do much good — you barely know him, and you're not his therapist or a life coach or whathaveyou.
I'm saying this as someone who thought he could pull off the ghosting thing, but found out secondhand, down the road, just how much what I did had hurt the other person — turned out we had mutual acquaintances — and it made me feel like shit. Never again. In general, I feel that if you are actively dating people, and you feel like you can't have, or don't feel comfortable having, this conversation — hey, I had fun, but I don't know if this is gonna work out — with someone who you've gone out with face to face, you probably shouldn't be dating anybody at all.
posted by un petit cadeau at 11:54 AM on June 20, 2015
I'm saying this as someone who thought he could pull off the ghosting thing, but found out secondhand, down the road, just how much what I did had hurt the other person — turned out we had mutual acquaintances — and it made me feel like shit. Never again. In general, I feel that if you are actively dating people, and you feel like you can't have, or don't feel comfortable having, this conversation — hey, I had fun, but I don't know if this is gonna work out — with someone who you've gone out with face to face, you probably shouldn't be dating anybody at all.
posted by un petit cadeau at 11:54 AM on June 20, 2015
You don't need to do a slow fade. You can tell him you're not a match or say you're seeing someone you met offline. It's best to tell the kindest version of the truth and leave no one wondering.
But since you haven't heard from him, it may be moot.
posted by Pearl928 at 11:42 PM on June 20, 2015
But since you haven't heard from him, it may be moot.
posted by Pearl928 at 11:42 PM on June 20, 2015
My experience with needy boundary-pushing lonely guys is that any explicit turn-down is taken as an invitation to argue you into changing your mind, or at least ask you multiple probing and doubting questions about your rationale.
One thing that almost always does work with this type of guy is "I'm seeing someone else." I don't know why that works, but I presume it might be related to a sort of underlying worldview that a single woman is always legitimately "up for grabs" until another male is in the picture, at which point they take it seriously to stop and consider that they've "lost." Even if he did accept the breakup, lonely guys tend to text you a month later if they think you're still single to see if you've changed your mind. The "other male" scenario shuts that down like nothing else.
Yeah, in general it is the nice and human thing to do to explain to people what their problems are and be kind and patient with their failings. But if there is any scenario in which this does not work, it is the single female gives single rejected male advice scenario. He needs to hear it, but from an internet stranger, his brother or friend, or a longtime married lady who recognizes what he's doing wrong.
I am something of a jaded cynic at this point in my life and I have just accepted the above as reality. It does cut out the one in ten young men who might thank you sincerely and politely never bother you again. But those tend to be the ones who need the least help to begin with and will likely figure it out on their own as they're halfway there.
TL;DR- 99/100 times women should not give men individual reasons why they reject them. "I found someone else" is a pretty ironclad social exception that even the most clueless tend to respect.
posted by quincunx at 9:46 AM on June 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
One thing that almost always does work with this type of guy is "I'm seeing someone else." I don't know why that works, but I presume it might be related to a sort of underlying worldview that a single woman is always legitimately "up for grabs" until another male is in the picture, at which point they take it seriously to stop and consider that they've "lost." Even if he did accept the breakup, lonely guys tend to text you a month later if they think you're still single to see if you've changed your mind. The "other male" scenario shuts that down like nothing else.
Yeah, in general it is the nice and human thing to do to explain to people what their problems are and be kind and patient with their failings. But if there is any scenario in which this does not work, it is the single female gives single rejected male advice scenario. He needs to hear it, but from an internet stranger, his brother or friend, or a longtime married lady who recognizes what he's doing wrong.
I am something of a jaded cynic at this point in my life and I have just accepted the above as reality. It does cut out the one in ten young men who might thank you sincerely and politely never bother you again. But those tend to be the ones who need the least help to begin with and will likely figure it out on their own as they're halfway there.
TL;DR- 99/100 times women should not give men individual reasons why they reject them. "I found someone else" is a pretty ironclad social exception that even the most clueless tend to respect.
posted by quincunx at 9:46 AM on June 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
One thing that almost always does work with this type of guy is "I'm seeing someone else." I don't know why that works, but I presume it might be related to a sort of underlying worldview that a single woman is always legitimately "up for grabs" until another male is in the picture, at which point they take it seriously to stop and consider that they've "lost." Even if he did accept the breakup, lonely guys tend to text you a month later if they think you're still single to see if you've changed your mind. The "other male" scenario shuts that down like nothing else.
This is a toxic attitude and terrible, misogynistic advice that reinforces all kinds of negative gender stereotypes. intheigloo, please do not do this.
posted by phunniemee at 10:11 AM on June 21, 2015
This is a toxic attitude and terrible, misogynistic advice that reinforces all kinds of negative gender stereotypes. intheigloo, please do not do this.
posted by phunniemee at 10:11 AM on June 21, 2015
Just to be clear, I don't personally believe that. I'm saying that it should not be her job to fight every battle against every clueless guy who does, though.
posted by quincunx at 12:02 PM on June 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by quincunx at 12:02 PM on June 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
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