Is there a place for me and my sexuality?
June 8, 2012 3:04 PM Subscribe
Middle-aged, relatively inexperienced and kinky in the "wrong" way. Should I just give up hope?
I'm a guy in my 40s. I have very little experience with sex, despite a long marriage that ended a few years ago. I was born with a condition called phimosis, which is the inability of the foreskin to properly retract when erect. I was able to masturbate to orgasm, but intercourse was usually awkward and painful. To my eternal shame and regret, I waited until my mid-30's to do anything about it, at which point I finally had a circumcision. By that time, the psychological damage was done, and my complacency about facing my problems was a major contributor to the end of my marriage. Despite the fact that my plumbing is now theoretically OK, the idea of penetrative sex generates more flight response than excitement in me, even though, like everyone else, I long for the closeness and joy that it can bring.
Compounding the problem is the fact that my sexuality definitely leans towards the kinky side of things. I very much enjoy being dominated, physically controlled, and tied up. I would even say that giving up power in some way is almost a requirement for arousal. Since the end of my marriage, I've made a couple of half-hearted attempts to enter my local BDSM community, but even though everyone I met at the social gatherings I attended was very nice to me, it quickly became clear to me that as a male submissive, my sexuality is marginalized even there. I've made a few visits to a pro domme, but those encounters, while exciting in a fantasy-fulfillment kind of way, are ultimately unsatisfying — in addition to rapidly draining my finances, they mostly just serve to remind me of the kind of life I wish I could have but don't.
At this point, I just don't see any solution that would enable me to become a fully-functioning, sexual person. I've made half-hearted attempts at online dating, without any success, and I feel like I'm selling my potential dates a bill of goods by trying to come off as a well-adjusted, dateable individual. But at the same time, I can't stop being human and wanting companionship, belonging and physical affection.
So, here I am... middle aged, lonely and broken, but still clinging to the hope that I can find my way to being in a loving, fulfilling relationship of some kind. I guess my question is: would I be better off admitting to myself that that ship has sailed, and learning to live with the fact that romance and sexuality, at least as far as sharing it with another person, are just not my lot in life? My ideal vision of a happy life has always included a woman to share it with, but getting there seems less like a steep upward climb and more like a vertical, craggy precipice. Should I just give up, and sublimate my energies into some other way of engaging with the world?
I'm a guy in my 40s. I have very little experience with sex, despite a long marriage that ended a few years ago. I was born with a condition called phimosis, which is the inability of the foreskin to properly retract when erect. I was able to masturbate to orgasm, but intercourse was usually awkward and painful. To my eternal shame and regret, I waited until my mid-30's to do anything about it, at which point I finally had a circumcision. By that time, the psychological damage was done, and my complacency about facing my problems was a major contributor to the end of my marriage. Despite the fact that my plumbing is now theoretically OK, the idea of penetrative sex generates more flight response than excitement in me, even though, like everyone else, I long for the closeness and joy that it can bring.
Compounding the problem is the fact that my sexuality definitely leans towards the kinky side of things. I very much enjoy being dominated, physically controlled, and tied up. I would even say that giving up power in some way is almost a requirement for arousal. Since the end of my marriage, I've made a couple of half-hearted attempts to enter my local BDSM community, but even though everyone I met at the social gatherings I attended was very nice to me, it quickly became clear to me that as a male submissive, my sexuality is marginalized even there. I've made a few visits to a pro domme, but those encounters, while exciting in a fantasy-fulfillment kind of way, are ultimately unsatisfying — in addition to rapidly draining my finances, they mostly just serve to remind me of the kind of life I wish I could have but don't.
At this point, I just don't see any solution that would enable me to become a fully-functioning, sexual person. I've made half-hearted attempts at online dating, without any success, and I feel like I'm selling my potential dates a bill of goods by trying to come off as a well-adjusted, dateable individual. But at the same time, I can't stop being human and wanting companionship, belonging and physical affection.
So, here I am... middle aged, lonely and broken, but still clinging to the hope that I can find my way to being in a loving, fulfilling relationship of some kind. I guess my question is: would I be better off admitting to myself that that ship has sailed, and learning to live with the fact that romance and sexuality, at least as far as sharing it with another person, are just not my lot in life? My ideal vision of a happy life has always included a woman to share it with, but getting there seems less like a steep upward climb and more like a vertical, craggy precipice. Should I just give up, and sublimate my energies into some other way of engaging with the world?
There are lots of dommes looking for male subs. However, because a lot of local "kink communities" tend to be rife with douchebag doms pontificating and being sexist all over the place, you'll probably have the best luck with ads on OKCupid and FetLife.
Best of luck to you.
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:39 PM on June 8, 2012 [8 favorites]
Best of luck to you.
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:39 PM on June 8, 2012 [8 favorites]
I don't actually know that much about the BDSM and kink communities but I am going to say - no, don't give up on love. But give up on your self-image as someone too messed up for it, and become - in the other many ways one dates - someone you would want to date.
Go out and do the _other_ things you would do if only you had the love of your life at home: biking, volunteering, writing the best novel, creating a garden - and also do online dating or go to kink meetups/cons/whatever, but as an enhancement to the amazing rest of your life you are building and I know - I know, I know, I know - it sounds so trite, and so stupid, but you will find her. The right girl will say yes, let's tie you up!
posted by Zen_warrior at 3:39 PM on June 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
Go out and do the _other_ things you would do if only you had the love of your life at home: biking, volunteering, writing the best novel, creating a garden - and also do online dating or go to kink meetups/cons/whatever, but as an enhancement to the amazing rest of your life you are building and I know - I know, I know, I know - it sounds so trite, and so stupid, but you will find her. The right girl will say yes, let's tie you up!
posted by Zen_warrior at 3:39 PM on June 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
This question is perfect for Dan Savage, but corb's advice is probably about what Dan Savage would say to you based on me listening to his podcasts way too much recently.
posted by imagineerit at 3:40 PM on June 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by imagineerit at 3:40 PM on June 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yes, you will do just fine. You can embark on a journey of self-discovery at any time! (Sorry for the woo-woo language).
You say that relinquishing power is necessary for your arousal, but does it have to be balls-out, whips and chains, artificial restraints power play? If not, could you be happy with a mildly kinky submissive sexual relationship, with perhaps occasional forays into the hardcore stuff? If so, I think it's very possible to find a "normal" sex partner in the "normal" world. It's not as uncommon as you think-- my first boyfriend was like you and it was no problem for us. I, personally, am only into the most mild of power-play, but when I am I'm a switch, and I think a lot of women might find that capacity latent in them if with a submissive man, even if they didn't think about it much at first. (Some won't, but not all seemingly normal women want the same "normal" thing.)
The OKCupid suggestion is a great one, since their match algorithm asks you questions about sexual kinkiness without making it the main dish, so to speak. Think about the level of BDSM-type sex you'd like to have in your life (once a month? Once a week? Every time?) and that will guide you. The more consistently you want "complicated," emotionally-draining sex, the more you might want to keep at the specifically BDSM communities. (Being a dominant is hard work!)
posted by stoneandstar at 3:40 PM on June 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
You say that relinquishing power is necessary for your arousal, but does it have to be balls-out, whips and chains, artificial restraints power play? If not, could you be happy with a mildly kinky submissive sexual relationship, with perhaps occasional forays into the hardcore stuff? If so, I think it's very possible to find a "normal" sex partner in the "normal" world. It's not as uncommon as you think-- my first boyfriend was like you and it was no problem for us. I, personally, am only into the most mild of power-play, but when I am I'm a switch, and I think a lot of women might find that capacity latent in them if with a submissive man, even if they didn't think about it much at first. (Some won't, but not all seemingly normal women want the same "normal" thing.)
The OKCupid suggestion is a great one, since their match algorithm asks you questions about sexual kinkiness without making it the main dish, so to speak. Think about the level of BDSM-type sex you'd like to have in your life (once a month? Once a week? Every time?) and that will guide you. The more consistently you want "complicated," emotionally-draining sex, the more you might want to keep at the specifically BDSM communities. (Being a dominant is hard work!)
posted by stoneandstar at 3:40 PM on June 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
would I be better off admitting to myself that that ship has sailed, and learning to live with the fact that romance and sexuality, at least as far as sharing it with another person, are just not my lot in life?
No, the ship has not sailed.
I very much enjoy being dominated, physically controlled, and tied up. I would even say that giving up power in some way is almost a requirement for arousal.
Excellent! I can assure you there are many women out there who are interested in doing this with a man in an affectionate and loving relationship.
I would suggest trying the online dating thing again with a bit more enthusiasm because that's the easiest place to start.
There are more dominant women out there than you think - you just need to get comfortable with your own sexual identity first and understand that there's nothing wrong with it.
posted by mleigh at 3:41 PM on June 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
No, the ship has not sailed.
I very much enjoy being dominated, physically controlled, and tied up. I would even say that giving up power in some way is almost a requirement for arousal.
Excellent! I can assure you there are many women out there who are interested in doing this with a man in an affectionate and loving relationship.
I would suggest trying the online dating thing again with a bit more enthusiasm because that's the easiest place to start.
There are more dominant women out there than you think - you just need to get comfortable with your own sexual identity first and understand that there's nothing wrong with it.
posted by mleigh at 3:41 PM on June 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm assuming this question came in when most of our American cohort are asleep.
My first thought is to talk to a therapist. You've got a lot of stuff to work thorough from years of disability THAT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT.
Then you'd be free to date and have all of whatever kind of intimacy you and your partner like. I send you hugs and support possum.
I reckon that after a teeny, tiny amount of professional support, you'll be fighting fit and ready to knock someone's socks off.
posted by taff at 4:05 PM on June 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
My first thought is to talk to a therapist. You've got a lot of stuff to work thorough from years of disability THAT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT.
Then you'd be free to date and have all of whatever kind of intimacy you and your partner like. I send you hugs and support possum.
I reckon that after a teeny, tiny amount of professional support, you'll be fighting fit and ready to knock someone's socks off.
posted by taff at 4:05 PM on June 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
FWIW, I was molested as a kid, had a long dysfunctional marriage, and have been celibate for seven years for medical reasons. I had a string of interesting relationships, mostly online, during my divorce which helped me with sort of similar problems that I thought were unresolvable. I have written about my experiences and how I got over most of my greek tragedy style personal baggage in one of my blogs. (Linky in profile if you want to take peek.)
HTH.
posted by Michele in California at 4:25 PM on June 8, 2012
HTH.
posted by Michele in California at 4:25 PM on June 8, 2012
No, the ship has not sailed. People much older than you reboot their sexuality all the time; you are decades short of leaving port. There is a metafilter group on fetlife that might make a good first stop for you there (I can't link it from this phone but hopefully someone will drop it in).
But unless you are looking for hardcore 24/7 kink, you will probably find that your desires are within the realm of possibility for many, many women. People's sexualities tend to have some flexibility, and many, if not most, can handle either tie me up or tie you up as long as you take things slow and careful. Remember that you have had years to think about this, but your new date might never have thought about this in her life.
posted by Forktine at 4:39 PM on June 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
But unless you are looking for hardcore 24/7 kink, you will probably find that your desires are within the realm of possibility for many, many women. People's sexualities tend to have some flexibility, and many, if not most, can handle either tie me up or tie you up as long as you take things slow and careful. Remember that you have had years to think about this, but your new date might never have thought about this in her life.
posted by Forktine at 4:39 PM on June 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
I feel like I'm selling my potential dates a bill of goods by trying to come off as a well-adjusted, dateable individual.
I just don't see any solution that would enable me to become a fully-functioning, sexual person.
here I am... middle aged, lonely and broken, but still clinging to the hope that I can find my way to being in a loving, fulfilling relationship of some kind.
Dude, you are raining some serious self involved despair with your attitude, and if I were a potential date I would run like hell away - not because of anything sexual you have mentioned, but because your self esteem is in the toilet. You give off some very insecure vibes here. My experience is that insecure people are so absorbed in their own issues that they have no positive energy to give to their partners - and indeed, do not know how to be a healthy partner. Nevermind any of the sex stuff - this is your biggest problem.
First, take steps to become that fully functioning person, confident in who you are and what you want. It is hard work, to be sure. THEN it is very likely you will be able to get that truly good, loving relationship you crave, with the sexual activity you want.
From what I can see, you are damning yourself as "lonely and broken" largely because you happen to have a desire to be dominated sexually and despair of finding a suitable partner. But there are probably lots and lots of submissive men of all ages in great relationships who would disagree with your assessment. I think you are focusing too much on the BDSM aspect and the extra hurdle it represents in your quest for a loving relationship. Your attitude is you've failed before you've really tried. That's certainly not likely to end well. A Domme in shining leather is unlikely to swoop you up into your BDSM fantasy relationship without any effort on your part.
You know what you want, which is a loving relationship with someone capable of sexually dominating you. This is great! Super great! You have a clear goal! Clear goals are attainable if you break them down into easier steps! Now, work on making yourself the sort of person who will be valuable in that loving relationship you desire - which means getting yourself in the best mental and physical shape for your future partner. There's a ton of resources in the world just waiting to help you. Therapists. Books. Internet groups. You need to commit yourself to pursuing these options until you find something that helps you. If it helps, think of it as a submissive service you undertake so that you will be worthy of your future Mistress.
posted by griselda at 4:41 PM on June 8, 2012 [10 favorites]
I just don't see any solution that would enable me to become a fully-functioning, sexual person.
here I am... middle aged, lonely and broken, but still clinging to the hope that I can find my way to being in a loving, fulfilling relationship of some kind.
Dude, you are raining some serious self involved despair with your attitude, and if I were a potential date I would run like hell away - not because of anything sexual you have mentioned, but because your self esteem is in the toilet. You give off some very insecure vibes here. My experience is that insecure people are so absorbed in their own issues that they have no positive energy to give to their partners - and indeed, do not know how to be a healthy partner. Nevermind any of the sex stuff - this is your biggest problem.
First, take steps to become that fully functioning person, confident in who you are and what you want. It is hard work, to be sure. THEN it is very likely you will be able to get that truly good, loving relationship you crave, with the sexual activity you want.
From what I can see, you are damning yourself as "lonely and broken" largely because you happen to have a desire to be dominated sexually and despair of finding a suitable partner. But there are probably lots and lots of submissive men of all ages in great relationships who would disagree with your assessment. I think you are focusing too much on the BDSM aspect and the extra hurdle it represents in your quest for a loving relationship. Your attitude is you've failed before you've really tried. That's certainly not likely to end well. A Domme in shining leather is unlikely to swoop you up into your BDSM fantasy relationship without any effort on your part.
You know what you want, which is a loving relationship with someone capable of sexually dominating you. This is great! Super great! You have a clear goal! Clear goals are attainable if you break them down into easier steps! Now, work on making yourself the sort of person who will be valuable in that loving relationship you desire - which means getting yourself in the best mental and physical shape for your future partner. There's a ton of resources in the world just waiting to help you. Therapists. Books. Internet groups. You need to commit yourself to pursuing these options until you find something that helps you. If it helps, think of it as a submissive service you undertake so that you will be worthy of your future Mistress.
posted by griselda at 4:41 PM on June 8, 2012 [10 favorites]
So you saw a lot of male doms/female subs in the scene, right? It typically takes a male dom two years to find the right sub- and they are the more common pairing. It might take longer for you, but it can happen.
One thing you can focus on now is what you can bring to a relationship with a domme. So many subs are needy, and it is hard and draining to be dominant. What makes you stand out? Can you cook? Massages are almost universally enjoyed. Do you know how to fix a woman's hair? Paint her toenails? Clean a bathroom? Do laundry? Be quiet when she is tired and you want to talk?
Look at ads from subs in your area on Fetlife. I am sure you will quickly notice a difference in the quality of subs, especially guys. A lot of sub guys seem to just want to be used sexually, which isn't appealing to many (most) dommes.
Go to a class to improve who you can be as a sub. Then you will be preparing yourself for the day that you finally meet Her.
posted by Monday at 4:45 PM on June 8, 2012 [9 favorites]
One thing you can focus on now is what you can bring to a relationship with a domme. So many subs are needy, and it is hard and draining to be dominant. What makes you stand out? Can you cook? Massages are almost universally enjoyed. Do you know how to fix a woman's hair? Paint her toenails? Clean a bathroom? Do laundry? Be quiet when she is tired and you want to talk?
Look at ads from subs in your area on Fetlife. I am sure you will quickly notice a difference in the quality of subs, especially guys. A lot of sub guys seem to just want to be used sexually, which isn't appealing to many (most) dommes.
Go to a class to improve who you can be as a sub. Then you will be preparing yourself for the day that you finally meet Her.
posted by Monday at 4:45 PM on June 8, 2012 [9 favorites]
It sounds like it could really help you to meet some more submissive men — especially ones who have gone through the confusion of coming out as kinky and found a place for themselves in the world. It's easy to focus on meeting a play partner as your primary goal. But really the thing to do is to find friends and role models and build a support network first. You'll end up happier and more comfortable and probably make yourself a lot more dateable in the process.
The catch is that as you've noticed, lot of the mainstream public BDSM world is organized along very heteronormative lines. Male-dom/female-sub is the "normal" pattern, bi women and women who switch are tolerated, anything beyond that is pushed way out to the margins. This is especially true, from what I've seen and heard, in smaller cities and towns, where the BDSM scene just isn't big enough to have room for minorities.
But it's not totally hopeless. There are places that are big enough, or diverse and liberal and open enough, to make room for male submission. You might have a separate fem-dom group in your area, or a formal or informal discussion or support group for male subs. (Also, even though it sounds like you're straight, I'm tempted to suggest you look to the gay/pansexual leather community, in which male submission is highly respected. You won't find a girlfriend there but you're more likely to find guys who are wired like you and proud of it. I'm really not sure whether this is a useful suggestion, though. Some corners of the leather community are open to low-profile well-behaved straight guys, some are Very Much Not.)
And there's a lot of kinky people who have just said the hell with the mainstream public scene: they have maybe a few kinky IRL friends who they've met through other interests and activities, or maybe they just befriend other perverts through the internet, and they date on OkCupid or manage to find significant others who share their tastes just by being brave enough to mention them on the second or third date. Honestly I think the majority of the kinky population falls into this category. If you're not an exhibitionist, a big theatrical extrovert, or a total technique nerd who just has to be going to workshops and demos all the time, the public scene can be really exhausting and ultimately more trouble than it's worth even for those people who do fit the hetero male-dominant norm.
Get yourself in therapy with someone kink-positive. If you're in a really small town, think about moving someplace bigger where there will be more sexual diversity or at least more of a critical mass of sexual minorities: there's a huge difference between being the only out submissive straight man in a town of 1,000 and being one of 1,000 out submissive straight men in a town of 1,000,000. And either way, get yourself a Fetlife account and try and make friends with some other submissive men who you can talk to about this stuff. (You can start by joining the People From Metafilter group! We'd love to have you.)
I won't lie, It's gonna be a lot of work for you to come to terms with this stuff. Getting past the sorts of hangups and doubts you've got is tough. But I know a lot of happy well-adjusted kinky people who first started dealing with this shit at your age, and are now in their 50s and having an awesome time. As a five- or ten-year project, this is absolutely doable.
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:53 PM on June 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
The catch is that as you've noticed, lot of the mainstream public BDSM world is organized along very heteronormative lines. Male-dom/female-sub is the "normal" pattern, bi women and women who switch are tolerated, anything beyond that is pushed way out to the margins. This is especially true, from what I've seen and heard, in smaller cities and towns, where the BDSM scene just isn't big enough to have room for minorities.
But it's not totally hopeless. There are places that are big enough, or diverse and liberal and open enough, to make room for male submission. You might have a separate fem-dom group in your area, or a formal or informal discussion or support group for male subs. (Also, even though it sounds like you're straight, I'm tempted to suggest you look to the gay/pansexual leather community, in which male submission is highly respected. You won't find a girlfriend there but you're more likely to find guys who are wired like you and proud of it. I'm really not sure whether this is a useful suggestion, though. Some corners of the leather community are open to low-profile well-behaved straight guys, some are Very Much Not.)
And there's a lot of kinky people who have just said the hell with the mainstream public scene: they have maybe a few kinky IRL friends who they've met through other interests and activities, or maybe they just befriend other perverts through the internet, and they date on OkCupid or manage to find significant others who share their tastes just by being brave enough to mention them on the second or third date. Honestly I think the majority of the kinky population falls into this category. If you're not an exhibitionist, a big theatrical extrovert, or a total technique nerd who just has to be going to workshops and demos all the time, the public scene can be really exhausting and ultimately more trouble than it's worth even for those people who do fit the hetero male-dominant norm.
Get yourself in therapy with someone kink-positive. If you're in a really small town, think about moving someplace bigger where there will be more sexual diversity or at least more of a critical mass of sexual minorities: there's a huge difference between being the only out submissive straight man in a town of 1,000 and being one of 1,000 out submissive straight men in a town of 1,000,000. And either way, get yourself a Fetlife account and try and make friends with some other submissive men who you can talk to about this stuff. (You can start by joining the People From Metafilter group! We'd love to have you.)
I won't lie, It's gonna be a lot of work for you to come to terms with this stuff. Getting past the sorts of hangups and doubts you've got is tough. But I know a lot of happy well-adjusted kinky people who first started dealing with this shit at your age, and are now in their 50s and having an awesome time. As a five- or ten-year project, this is absolutely doable.
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:53 PM on June 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
Okay. You are going to get a lot of advice based on the idea that there are plenty of female tops out there for everyone. And that there is no reason to settle for anything less than a relatinoship where your kinds are loved, cherished, and celebrated to the fullest extent. I am going to tell you up front that my answer is not going to be anything like that even though it's the "supportive" thing to say. I just don't think it's true.
The reality IMO is that there are just not that many female tops out there - both relative to the number of available women overall, and relative to the huge number of male subs. Female tops have their pick of guys like you couldn't imagine - or you probably can.
The way I see it is your choices for a relationship are to find a female top who will enjoy your kinks with you, or to find a non-kinky woman who isn't that into them for her own sake but is still willing to do them because she enjoys sex with you in general and wants to be in a relationship with you. I think the former is fairly unlikely, and the latter you have a pretty solid chance at getting. (More on that in a bit.)
If you're dead-set on being in a relationshi pwith a top, then because female tops can have their pick, I think to improve your chances at success you are going to have to work to get to the top of the heap. That's just the reality. I understand you feel your sexuality is marginalized in the scene but focusing on how marginalized you are is not actually going to GET you anywhere because nobody is going to get in a relationship with you out of a sense of political correctness. Do what you need to do to make yourself as attractive as possible. Work out and get a great body, make sure your hair is looking good, dress well, impeccable hygiene. Work on your personality and be fun and interesting to be around overall. Make sure your social skills are up to par generally and work with a therapist if they are not. Sexually make sure you are a good partner FOR THEM, in other words, you're not going into things with the attitude that they will be pleasuring YOU and doing what excites YOU (see topping from the bottom) instead you're making sure you're really pleasing them as well. And after all this, if you operate based on an idea of "leagues" (e.g. in the mainstream world you are a "7" so you would go for women who are also "7's") you will need to revise that in your mind as well because every woman is in so much demand.
I think it will be much easier to find a non-kinky woman who likes you overall and wants to have a sexual relationshi pwith you even if she doesn't share your kinks, but is willing to meet you in the middle.
The thing I think you must wok on is that it doesn't sound like at this time you would be able to meet a non-kinky person in the middle. You speak of "psychological damage" and say "the idea of penetrative sex generates more flight response than excitement." This doesn't just sound like the inborn kinky way that you are -- I don't doubt you when you say it was psychological damage stemming from your medical issue. So -- this is not just something to accept, celebrate, whatever. Go ahead and work on fixing your psychological damage. It doesn't sound like you've even tried to do that. There is no way for you to know the damage is "done" in some kind of fatalistic way -- it sounds like there is a lot of room for improvement. Do what YOU can do to get closer to meeting potential sexual partners in the middle, instead of throwing up in despair at the idea that you can't find someone to come all the way to you. [I should also say here that there are PLENTY of women out there who are not into penetrative sex. I'm willing to be it's orders of magnitude bigger than the number of female tops. But you should still also work on this in case you meet that great woman who does need penetrative sex.]
You also say, "I would even say that giving up power in some way is almost a requirement for arousal." To me, this sounds extremely rigid. I know a lot of people say, "fetishes are fetishes and someone with a fetish NEEDS it in order to be aroused!" Yeah, sometimes that's the case, but a LOT of other times the person is just rigid in wanting to get what they want and not having to even try to meet the other person halfway. Also if you were in a relationship with a non-kinky woman, would you be willing to ENTHUSIASTICALLY have non-kinky sex (plenty of non-penetrative things you could do) that she liked, even if it didn't really turn you on? If you would be willing to do that, then I think there is no reason for despair at all.
The bottom line is if you're willing and able to meet someone in the middle who doesn't necessarily share your fetishes, then I think you should not have any more problems getting into a relationship than the average guy.
However the average guy does have some problems doing that, so here are my general tips for that.
-Try to get in shape if you are not. Yes, people who are not in shape find love and sex all the time. I'm only recommending this because it's EASIER if you are in shape.
-All the things I suggested earlier apply as well - making sure your hair, clothes, hygiene, etc are all on order. Really working hard on your social skills if you need to, in therapy if necessary.
-Coming off as a pleasant, happy person who is enjoyable to be around.
-Coming off as a stable, upstanding guy who has his life together.
I hear women in their 40's all the time talking about the problems finding eligible men. I think you should go meet these women in the spaces where they are, which is not necessarily online dating. Think more volunteering, art classes, community events, things like that. I would say don't worry first about finding a woman who is kinky or open to kinks as it seems you're doing now. I would say first work on finding women who are really into you and I think many of these women will be willing to do their best to build a mutually satisfactory sexual life with you.
posted by cairdeas at 5:22 PM on June 8, 2012 [12 favorites]
The reality IMO is that there are just not that many female tops out there - both relative to the number of available women overall, and relative to the huge number of male subs. Female tops have their pick of guys like you couldn't imagine - or you probably can.
The way I see it is your choices for a relationship are to find a female top who will enjoy your kinks with you, or to find a non-kinky woman who isn't that into them for her own sake but is still willing to do them because she enjoys sex with you in general and wants to be in a relationship with you. I think the former is fairly unlikely, and the latter you have a pretty solid chance at getting. (More on that in a bit.)
If you're dead-set on being in a relationshi pwith a top, then because female tops can have their pick, I think to improve your chances at success you are going to have to work to get to the top of the heap. That's just the reality. I understand you feel your sexuality is marginalized in the scene but focusing on how marginalized you are is not actually going to GET you anywhere because nobody is going to get in a relationship with you out of a sense of political correctness. Do what you need to do to make yourself as attractive as possible. Work out and get a great body, make sure your hair is looking good, dress well, impeccable hygiene. Work on your personality and be fun and interesting to be around overall. Make sure your social skills are up to par generally and work with a therapist if they are not. Sexually make sure you are a good partner FOR THEM, in other words, you're not going into things with the attitude that they will be pleasuring YOU and doing what excites YOU (see topping from the bottom) instead you're making sure you're really pleasing them as well. And after all this, if you operate based on an idea of "leagues" (e.g. in the mainstream world you are a "7" so you would go for women who are also "7's") you will need to revise that in your mind as well because every woman is in so much demand.
I think it will be much easier to find a non-kinky woman who likes you overall and wants to have a sexual relationshi pwith you even if she doesn't share your kinks, but is willing to meet you in the middle.
The thing I think you must wok on is that it doesn't sound like at this time you would be able to meet a non-kinky person in the middle. You speak of "psychological damage" and say "the idea of penetrative sex generates more flight response than excitement." This doesn't just sound like the inborn kinky way that you are -- I don't doubt you when you say it was psychological damage stemming from your medical issue. So -- this is not just something to accept, celebrate, whatever. Go ahead and work on fixing your psychological damage. It doesn't sound like you've even tried to do that. There is no way for you to know the damage is "done" in some kind of fatalistic way -- it sounds like there is a lot of room for improvement. Do what YOU can do to get closer to meeting potential sexual partners in the middle, instead of throwing up in despair at the idea that you can't find someone to come all the way to you. [I should also say here that there are PLENTY of women out there who are not into penetrative sex. I'm willing to be it's orders of magnitude bigger than the number of female tops. But you should still also work on this in case you meet that great woman who does need penetrative sex.]
You also say, "I would even say that giving up power in some way is almost a requirement for arousal." To me, this sounds extremely rigid. I know a lot of people say, "fetishes are fetishes and someone with a fetish NEEDS it in order to be aroused!" Yeah, sometimes that's the case, but a LOT of other times the person is just rigid in wanting to get what they want and not having to even try to meet the other person halfway. Also if you were in a relationship with a non-kinky woman, would you be willing to ENTHUSIASTICALLY have non-kinky sex (plenty of non-penetrative things you could do) that she liked, even if it didn't really turn you on? If you would be willing to do that, then I think there is no reason for despair at all.
The bottom line is if you're willing and able to meet someone in the middle who doesn't necessarily share your fetishes, then I think you should not have any more problems getting into a relationship than the average guy.
However the average guy does have some problems doing that, so here are my general tips for that.
-Try to get in shape if you are not. Yes, people who are not in shape find love and sex all the time. I'm only recommending this because it's EASIER if you are in shape.
-All the things I suggested earlier apply as well - making sure your hair, clothes, hygiene, etc are all on order. Really working hard on your social skills if you need to, in therapy if necessary.
-Coming off as a pleasant, happy person who is enjoyable to be around.
-Coming off as a stable, upstanding guy who has his life together.
I hear women in their 40's all the time talking about the problems finding eligible men. I think you should go meet these women in the spaces where they are, which is not necessarily online dating. Think more volunteering, art classes, community events, things like that. I would say don't worry first about finding a woman who is kinky or open to kinks as it seems you're doing now. I would say first work on finding women who are really into you and I think many of these women will be willing to do their best to build a mutually satisfactory sexual life with you.
posted by cairdeas at 5:22 PM on June 8, 2012 [12 favorites]
cairdeas, I agree that the male sub to female domme ratio is high. But the thing is that the OP got the (wrong) message from his local kink community that he's a weird outlier for being a male sub and that there's nobody else like him and no dommes looking for a guy like him. That's almost certainly because his local kink community has been hijacked by asshole doms, and so the dommes have cleared out and gone to play elsewhere. One of the upsides of his making a FetLife account would be that he would learn pdq that he is far from alone.
Also, there are lots of ladies who are switches out there.
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:21 PM on June 8, 2012 [7 favorites]
Also, there are lots of ladies who are switches out there.
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:21 PM on June 8, 2012 [7 favorites]
I just want to say that at my local kink community, submissive males are definitely not marginalized. I know it's not the same at every club, but maybe you should consider giving your local a second chance, with more of an eye toward making friends and connections than anything else. (Submissive or not, men who are percieved as being more interested in sex than community are often marginalized in general -- not saying that this is you, just that you would do best to avoid the appearance of desperation, especially when you are at your most desperate,) It may still be a good environment for sexual relationships to develop organically even if they don't develop quickly, and you might be able to gain some knowledge and insight even without finding a play partner.
Of course, maybe your local really does marginalize all submissive men (or at least those who aren't young and pretty) in which case you might want to see about finding another group to check out, even if it's a few towns (or even the next state) over. They're really not all like that.
posted by Scientist at 11:27 PM on June 8, 2012
Of course, maybe your local really does marginalize all submissive men (or at least those who aren't young and pretty) in which case you might want to see about finding another group to check out, even if it's a few towns (or even the next state) over. They're really not all like that.
posted by Scientist at 11:27 PM on June 8, 2012
Rather than pursue your kink which in my opinion will not lead to long term satisfying relations, you should consider ways to find pleasure in love and intimacy. Kinks can be fun, but relationships are about love. If in a relationship of love you can practice you kink fine, but domination etc. is somewhat opposed to love and close connection in which you can express your deepest longings and fears in a safe and secure way. If sex therapy is for anything it is for this. Any therapy would probably be helpful. You feel like an oddity, yet as folks have said your experience is normal after such a condition and surgery. Therapy can help you put the past into the past.
posted by caddis at 4:21 AM on June 9, 2012
posted by caddis at 4:21 AM on June 9, 2012
sub here 10 years experience in the scene but have been doing 'year of the switch' this year, First new years resolution I have ever kept.
Guys I have topped:
Fat punk rock cross dresser, 40ish
56 year old bald switch guy
24 year old extremely shy latex guy
Me: 30ish medium build fairly attractive smart nerdy lady.
Connections I am making with them are personal ones, if any one of them wanted a relationship I would be happy to.
I live in an extremely rural area of the UK. If these dudes can find me, you can find someone.
posted by By The Grace of God at 4:31 AM on June 9, 2012 [6 favorites]
Guys I have topped:
Fat punk rock cross dresser, 40ish
56 year old bald switch guy
24 year old extremely shy latex guy
Me: 30ish medium build fairly attractive smart nerdy lady.
Connections I am making with them are personal ones, if any one of them wanted a relationship I would be happy to.
I live in an extremely rural area of the UK. If these dudes can find me, you can find someone.
posted by By The Grace of God at 4:31 AM on June 9, 2012 [6 favorites]
"To my eternal shame and regret"
STOP RIGHT THERE.
No mistake you have made, or even could have made, is worthy of that kind of mindset. Let's reserve eternal shame for people who commit heinous, irreversible acts against innocents.
All you did was fix your problem when you were able to, emotionally. You couldn't have fixed this problem before puberty, and were unlikely to do so at age (say) 14 (imagine that conversation with your parents, guys...). You fixed it. Give yourself some freaking credit for doing something positive for yourself, and quit beating yourself up for not having done it at an earlier age.
But this isn't the only example:
in the "wrong" way.
Should I just give up hope?
You have exactly one big problem: low self-esteem. Not inexperience. Not age. Not kink. I know a middle-aged virgin who'd never been with a woman at all; met a nice, kinky lady online, moved UK->USA, and now lives near her in a committed dom/sub relationship (she's poly & married, which is why he isn't planning to move in).
You need to have a therapist who specializes in sexual issues, and commit yourself to working on your self esteem. EVERYTHING else will fall into place (barring the usual shit everyone has to deal with, because, hey, it's life).
I promise.
posted by IAmBroom at 6:51 AM on June 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
STOP RIGHT THERE.
No mistake you have made, or even could have made, is worthy of that kind of mindset. Let's reserve eternal shame for people who commit heinous, irreversible acts against innocents.
All you did was fix your problem when you were able to, emotionally. You couldn't have fixed this problem before puberty, and were unlikely to do so at age (say) 14 (imagine that conversation with your parents, guys...). You fixed it. Give yourself some freaking credit for doing something positive for yourself, and quit beating yourself up for not having done it at an earlier age.
But this isn't the only example:
in the "wrong" way.
Should I just give up hope?
You have exactly one big problem: low self-esteem. Not inexperience. Not age. Not kink. I know a middle-aged virgin who'd never been with a woman at all; met a nice, kinky lady online, moved UK->USA, and now lives near her in a committed dom/sub relationship (she's poly & married, which is why he isn't planning to move in).
You need to have a therapist who specializes in sexual issues, and commit yourself to working on your self esteem. EVERYTHING else will fall into place (barring the usual shit everyone has to deal with, because, hey, it's life).
I promise.
posted by IAmBroom at 6:51 AM on June 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
I have some relevant insight that I'd rather not discuss here. I don't mind saying I'm a dominant female with a submissive husband, but that's as far as I want to go in public right now. My email is my profile.
posted by desjardins at 7:14 AM on June 9, 2012
posted by desjardins at 7:14 AM on June 9, 2012
I think you might want to keep going to the real life BDSM meetings, and join Fetlife. You might or might not find suitable dating partners there, but you can make friends and acquaintances. Kink communities can be like small towns in that everybody knows everybody and if someone you trust can vouch for a potential date, that's a good thing.
You might also try Collarme.com . I've had more dates from that website.
posted by faceonmars at 2:11 PM on June 9, 2012
You might also try Collarme.com . I've had more dates from that website.
posted by faceonmars at 2:11 PM on June 9, 2012
Male subs are not rare by any stretch of the imagination. I sometimes lean that way myself and I've encountered some kink communities that were full of them. Furthermore, I've met plenty of women who did not consider themselves dommes or even all that kinky who were open-minded enough to give it a go without a second thought.
Male submissiveness isnt the default expression of heterosexuality, but you're not a freak, and there are plenty of women out there who will sit on your neck if they like you enough.
posted by modernserf at 4:33 PM on June 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
Male submissiveness isnt the default expression of heterosexuality, but you're not a freak, and there are plenty of women out there who will sit on your neck if they like you enough.
posted by modernserf at 4:33 PM on June 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
Seconding others above: get straight in your head about whether this submission that turns you on is just circumstantially "submissive-seeming", but actually on-your-demand shame-and-restraint wish-fulfilment (more likely what you'd get from your visits to the pro); or whether you're turned on by giving yourself over to someone else's will, wanting to please. You may find women interested in either, but they will likely be different sorts of people. Adrenaline players vs. control players.
Either way, don't beat yourself up over who you are. Life's too short.
posted by ead at 3:09 PM on June 10, 2012
Either way, don't beat yourself up over who you are. Life's too short.
posted by ead at 3:09 PM on June 10, 2012
Mod note: From the OP:
Thanks, everyone, for your thoughtful and thought-provoking responses!posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 5:26 PM on June 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm definitely all about meeting halfway — as much as I enjoy the ropes and chains, elaborate hardware is not really that crucial. And, for whatever reason, in recent years I've been fantasizing about "vanilla" sex a bit more than I used to... so, I'm certainly open to exploring that as one of my kinks! As to whether I'm a genuine submissive, that's something I'm still trying to figure out, and the distinction between a sub and a bottom is still not quite clear in my mind. I have specific physical things I enjoy and do ask for, but I also love going into a session and having no idea what's about to happen to me. Ultimately, of course, I'd like both partners to be getting something out of the experience, as opposed to one just indulging the other.
I agree that therapy would probably do wonders, and my next project is to find a kink-friendly therapist to talk to. Having grown up well before the age of FetLife and shibari conferences, I still have a pretty deeply ingrained feeling that my desires are "not OK". Whenever I'm talking to a woman I'm interested in, it's always in the back of my mind that even if things go well, it'll probably fall apart once she discovers my Horrible, Pervy Secret — or my Horrible Inexperience Secret. Luckily I do live in a big, liberal city, so hopefully I'll be able to find someone to help me navigate all this. Thanks again!
Yay for you, OP! Best of luck, and if a date/relationship/hookup doesn't go well, keep in mind that things often don't go well for people who are the exact opposite of yourself - so it may have nothing to do with the issues you've raised, or even you at all. Keep trying, and your luck will improve.
posted by IAmBroom at 10:52 PM on June 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by IAmBroom at 10:52 PM on June 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Good news! All of this is fixable! You can still find happy and sexually fulfilling love!
You may want to try looking into online dating - I know it was sketchy ten or fifteen years ago, but it's absolutely improved. I hear OKCupid's the best non-sex site to find kinky folk, because it actively sorts for it and let's you say which side of the fence you're on. Also, try making a Fetlife account.
And don't worry! Really! This is actually, with the exception of the recent surgery, not nearly as uncommon as you think it is!
posted by corb at 3:24 PM on June 8, 2012 [1 favorite]