You're alien to me, but I love you anyway...
December 8, 2009 12:16 PM Subscribe
So, we don't clash outright (much), but we don't really talk either...
I'm 22, female, living at home currently while I finish my degree--although I might move out for my last year (next year). I'm Asian. Insert relevant stereotypes of protective parents.
My parents and I get along; there's no real animosity or anything. However, getting along != close; in fact, I'm actually quite distant from my family. I'd like to not be, really, hence my question.
I grew up in Canada, and have starkly different views compared to my parents on a lot of things. I'm not religious, they are; I support sex/living together before marriage and they don't, I value space to be my own person whereas they like interdependence, think family is first above all, and that it's perfectly feasible to live with one's parents under the same roof for years, etc. It shows in very simple things, even; for example, since we rarely Do Anything Together I think it's perfectly acceptable to say morning of (or an hour before) "Hey, I'm going out with x" whereas Mom would go "How come you don't ever tell us these things beforehand?" even though she wouldn't try to stop me from going or anything. (Yes, this one was an issue and has been largely resolved, but for example.)
There also is a language barrier: I'm fluent in English whereas theirs is patchy; their main language is Chinese whereas my Chinese...leaves much to be desired. Sometimes even "what'd you do today?" poses linguistic problems (I'm a chemistry student, and it's hard enough to describe why my reaction needs x y and z parameters or something, or to launch a tale of how calculus eats my soul) since I moved to Canada when I was 5.
There are some things that really can't be helped unless I move out (e.g. clashes about curfews, boyfriends, things like that). I'm fiercely independent, but I'm aware that my parents will not really view me as an Adult for a while (at least until after I get a job, if ever...yes, I know they mean well). Yes, yes, their house, their rules; while there've been some clashes (some really bad ones, even), generally there's been unspoken resignment/agreement on those fronts. Given language barriers and different philosophical viewpoints, we don't really get into much Deep Deep Discussion either because a lot of the times we just go around in circles because we can't adequately explain our viewpoints across the language barrier and we get frustrated. I really just end up...not talking a lot to my parents. I don't have much to hide (don't do drugs, don't go out partying...I'm a pretty quiet type), but it's just so much easier not trying (and failing) to explain why my friend's 4e D&D Elven Ranger just destroyed that White Dragon with a vicious twin strike attack is so awesome when my parents can't understand why a few pieces of paper and a plastic figurine is so captivating.
My older brother's very much similar; we're not close either, although we don't have the language barrier and interest barriers. I'm not sure why I'm distant from my brother; he deals with our parents much the same way as I do. Over the years we've had similar interests (console/cards/tabletop games, certain sports), but we've just never connected after elementary school. Granted, we seem to be getting into the same interests over different time periods, but. I don't know his philosophical viewpoints at all (although I suspect they're closer to mine than my parents), and I'm sure that my parents' don't agree with mine.
So, given the caveats that my brother just may not be interested in having a deeper understanding with me, and my parents are interested but will probably never agree with me on certain things: are there things I can do to try and nurture deeper connections with my family? I know my parents wish I (and we) weren't so stand-off-ish, but...while I'd like for us to be closer, we're so different in ideas and interests that I don't know how to change that. And since my brother might as well be a stranger living under the same roof, I don't know with him either. (At least with my parents I know we disagree, with my brother...no idea. He's a clam inside the house, but much different outside.)
I love my family, but I do think it'd be easier if I was far away from them; they're just very...fondly exasperating.
NB: I have read The Five Love Languages, and while I suspect it might help in this situation I don't know how to get my family on board. I'm definitely way too distant from my brother to suggest to him to read it (him: wtf, Christian relationship book???), and my parents wouldn't understand the English. I've tried communicating the principles of some of it to my parents at least ("Mom, Dad, I don't really need or want you to do everything for me, it's not how I work" but then they feel rejected because "you treat our caring as annoyances etc etc" and get very upset). The language barrier doesn't help.
I'm 22, female, living at home currently while I finish my degree--although I might move out for my last year (next year). I'm Asian. Insert relevant stereotypes of protective parents.
My parents and I get along; there's no real animosity or anything. However, getting along != close; in fact, I'm actually quite distant from my family. I'd like to not be, really, hence my question.
I grew up in Canada, and have starkly different views compared to my parents on a lot of things. I'm not religious, they are; I support sex/living together before marriage and they don't, I value space to be my own person whereas they like interdependence, think family is first above all, and that it's perfectly feasible to live with one's parents under the same roof for years, etc. It shows in very simple things, even; for example, since we rarely Do Anything Together I think it's perfectly acceptable to say morning of (or an hour before) "Hey, I'm going out with x" whereas Mom would go "How come you don't ever tell us these things beforehand?" even though she wouldn't try to stop me from going or anything. (Yes, this one was an issue and has been largely resolved, but for example.)
There also is a language barrier: I'm fluent in English whereas theirs is patchy; their main language is Chinese whereas my Chinese...leaves much to be desired. Sometimes even "what'd you do today?" poses linguistic problems (I'm a chemistry student, and it's hard enough to describe why my reaction needs x y and z parameters or something, or to launch a tale of how calculus eats my soul) since I moved to Canada when I was 5.
There are some things that really can't be helped unless I move out (e.g. clashes about curfews, boyfriends, things like that). I'm fiercely independent, but I'm aware that my parents will not really view me as an Adult for a while (at least until after I get a job, if ever...yes, I know they mean well). Yes, yes, their house, their rules; while there've been some clashes (some really bad ones, even), generally there's been unspoken resignment/agreement on those fronts. Given language barriers and different philosophical viewpoints, we don't really get into much Deep Deep Discussion either because a lot of the times we just go around in circles because we can't adequately explain our viewpoints across the language barrier and we get frustrated. I really just end up...not talking a lot to my parents. I don't have much to hide (don't do drugs, don't go out partying...I'm a pretty quiet type), but it's just so much easier not trying (and failing) to explain why my friend's 4e D&D Elven Ranger just destroyed that White Dragon with a vicious twin strike attack is so awesome when my parents can't understand why a few pieces of paper and a plastic figurine is so captivating.
My older brother's very much similar; we're not close either, although we don't have the language barrier and interest barriers. I'm not sure why I'm distant from my brother; he deals with our parents much the same way as I do. Over the years we've had similar interests (console/cards/tabletop games, certain sports), but we've just never connected after elementary school. Granted, we seem to be getting into the same interests over different time periods, but. I don't know his philosophical viewpoints at all (although I suspect they're closer to mine than my parents), and I'm sure that my parents' don't agree with mine.
So, given the caveats that my brother just may not be interested in having a deeper understanding with me, and my parents are interested but will probably never agree with me on certain things: are there things I can do to try and nurture deeper connections with my family? I know my parents wish I (and we) weren't so stand-off-ish, but...while I'd like for us to be closer, we're so different in ideas and interests that I don't know how to change that. And since my brother might as well be a stranger living under the same roof, I don't know with him either. (At least with my parents I know we disagree, with my brother...no idea. He's a clam inside the house, but much different outside.)
I love my family, but I do think it'd be easier if I was far away from them; they're just very...fondly exasperating.
NB: I have read The Five Love Languages, and while I suspect it might help in this situation I don't know how to get my family on board. I'm definitely way too distant from my brother to suggest to him to read it (him: wtf, Christian relationship book???), and my parents wouldn't understand the English. I've tried communicating the principles of some of it to my parents at least ("Mom, Dad, I don't really need or want you to do everything for me, it's not how I work" but then they feel rejected because "you treat our caring as annoyances etc etc" and get very upset). The language barrier doesn't help.
Nothing brings families together like getting farther away. You _need_ to move out.
You're never going to agree, but you'll learn to avoid the hot button issues when they aren't quite so immediate. My relationship with my parents got 100x better after we weren't sharing a roof or financial ties.
posted by paanta at 12:29 PM on December 8, 2009 [3 favorites]
You're never going to agree, but you'll learn to avoid the hot button issues when they aren't quite so immediate. My relationship with my parents got 100x better after we weren't sharing a roof or financial ties.
posted by paanta at 12:29 PM on December 8, 2009 [3 favorites]
I love my family, but I do think it'd be easier if I was far away from them
This is the way most adults feel. It's why we move out & get our own places.
posted by gnutron at 12:35 PM on December 8, 2009
This is the way most adults feel. It's why we move out & get our own places.
posted by gnutron at 12:35 PM on December 8, 2009
Improving your Chinese will not only help you understand your parents, it will give you a another marketable skill.
Ironically, most people become closer (or at least improve their relationship) with their parents once they move out. Once the vestigial parental things are swept away, you will be on a more equal footing and contention over curfew and boyfriends won't be the major arc of your relationship.
Moving out may not be the easiest thing to do right now, but you'll earn a little respect from your parents if you're going to school and working enough to pay bills. Maybe kill two birds with one stone and move in with your brother, if possible?
posted by spaltavian at 12:42 PM on December 8, 2009
Ironically, most people become closer (or at least improve their relationship) with their parents once they move out. Once the vestigial parental things are swept away, you will be on a more equal footing and contention over curfew and boyfriends won't be the major arc of your relationship.
Moving out may not be the easiest thing to do right now, but you'll earn a little respect from your parents if you're going to school and working enough to pay bills. Maybe kill two birds with one stone and move in with your brother, if possible?
posted by spaltavian at 12:42 PM on December 8, 2009
Best answer: This sounds like a pretty typical first-generation Canadian-born Chinese culture/generation gap. I'm honestly not dismissing your problems, merely saying that I have heard this story before.
And if it makes you feel any better my white Canadian parents never figured out why D&D was so interesting either although they never really asked either.
As for nurturing a deeper connection I have no real advice - just live your life with them. Chat as best you can about the minutiae of life. Tell them you love them and smile when they say they love you. If you get that far you're in the top 5% of happy families. As for clashes about curfews, again my sister had the same fights with my parents so that's not a strictly cultural issue. The only way to solve that is to move out.
Working on your Chinese might help. Oddly enough plenty of non-Chinese people send their kids to Chinese immersion schools with the belief that knowing Chinese will be a big asset for their kid someday in spite of the fact that immersion is hard and can cost $20K+ annually. So yeah, you could always try to take advantage of the free Chinese lessons (Cantonese would be less commercially useful than mandarin, but whatever. Speaking a second language turns out to be useful eventually)
posted by GuyZero at 12:42 PM on December 8, 2009 [3 favorites]
And if it makes you feel any better my white Canadian parents never figured out why D&D was so interesting either although they never really asked either.
As for nurturing a deeper connection I have no real advice - just live your life with them. Chat as best you can about the minutiae of life. Tell them you love them and smile when they say they love you. If you get that far you're in the top 5% of happy families. As for clashes about curfews, again my sister had the same fights with my parents so that's not a strictly cultural issue. The only way to solve that is to move out.
Working on your Chinese might help. Oddly enough plenty of non-Chinese people send their kids to Chinese immersion schools with the belief that knowing Chinese will be a big asset for their kid someday in spite of the fact that immersion is hard and can cost $20K+ annually. So yeah, you could always try to take advantage of the free Chinese lessons (Cantonese would be less commercially useful than mandarin, but whatever. Speaking a second language turns out to be useful eventually)
posted by GuyZero at 12:42 PM on December 8, 2009 [3 favorites]
I really think your relationship will improve when you move out. When the time you spend together is more rare and precious, it will be spent better by both you and your parents.
posted by WeekendJen at 12:53 PM on December 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by WeekendJen at 12:53 PM on December 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
To be seen as an adult, you must take on the responsibilities that come with being an adult. If moving out isn't an option, see if you can work towards independent living, as if you were living without your parents (and they without you). Try talking to them about their expectations for you to become an adult, and see if you can phrase things to help them understand that by giving you more freedom means you'll be moving more towards being an independent adult. This might involve you paying your share of utilities and food, cooking for them, things of that sort.
I don't know how any of these suggestions fit into your family dynamic, so take them all with a hearty dose of salt and all that. Good luck!
posted by filthy light thief at 1:09 PM on December 8, 2009
I don't know how any of these suggestions fit into your family dynamic, so take them all with a hearty dose of salt and all that. Good luck!
posted by filthy light thief at 1:09 PM on December 8, 2009
Best answer: I'm aware that my parents will not really view me as an Adult for a while (at least until after I get a job, if ever...yes, I know they mean well).
I was born in the US: my parents were born overseas and they seem a little more assimilated than yours. I am a little more than a decade older than you. I have not lived at home for over 15 years. And I think my parents still do not view me as an Adult. I have struggled with this and have tried to accept the fact that on good days, my parents interact with me as most (Caucasian) adults might interact with an especially precocious 11-year.
This plays very much into cultural stereotypes, but while I think that moving away will definitely move you all down the path towards "being viewed as an Adult" I don't think it will fix it. (In my case, I don't think the issue is capable of being "fixed".)
I think that I am sometimes so engrossed with my own life that I haven't engaged with my parents about THEIR lives. Frankly, a lot of the stuff they do isn't very interesting to me, but trying to BECOME interested in what they do, what they care about -- I think that has helped some. Or, as someone counseled me once, "Make it about her day, not your day."
posted by QuantumMeruit at 1:29 PM on December 8, 2009
I was born in the US: my parents were born overseas and they seem a little more assimilated than yours. I am a little more than a decade older than you. I have not lived at home for over 15 years. And I think my parents still do not view me as an Adult. I have struggled with this and have tried to accept the fact that on good days, my parents interact with me as most (Caucasian) adults might interact with an especially precocious 11-year.
This plays very much into cultural stereotypes, but while I think that moving away will definitely move you all down the path towards "being viewed as an Adult" I don't think it will fix it. (In my case, I don't think the issue is capable of being "fixed".)
I think that I am sometimes so engrossed with my own life that I haven't engaged with my parents about THEIR lives. Frankly, a lot of the stuff they do isn't very interesting to me, but trying to BECOME interested in what they do, what they care about -- I think that has helped some. Or, as someone counseled me once, "Make it about her day, not your day."
posted by QuantumMeruit at 1:29 PM on December 8, 2009
Response by poster: I should probably have added that I did offer to pay rent, but they said no. Currently my research work at school is eating up every minute of my spare time (evenings, weekends), so if I did move out right this minute, I'd be eating from savings; were I to pay my parents I'd be paying them out of savings as well so this may be part of the reason why they're saying no. (Actually, I'm pretty sure they'd say no on general principle, but the fact that I'm working for experience but no pay probably solidifies the decision.)
It has been established that were I to move out they would still pay my tuition but I'd pay all extra costs incurred from moving out. I think that's quite fair, and I've been eyeing my bank account for moving out for the next school year. My savings can only stretch so far (even if I do go back to another part time job for the bills), so moving out immediately isn't an option. Next school year I probably won't be doing research, so actually having enough time for a part time job would be likely.
We don't really fight that much. There have been fights about curfews and boyfriends, but they're pretty few and far between as I'm mostly the quiet type (not much point in fighting about curfews when I stay out late infrequently to begin with). I do bristle somewhat at the restrictions on principle (I'm a very big Principles person), but seeing as my boyfriend and my friends are all buried under work/school like me there really hasn't been much opportunity to want to rebel, so Things We Argue About tend to be swept under the rug after a while and just Not Talked About. I think the main problem is that instead of fighting, we're simply not talking. About much of anything.
I think they did live at home until they got married back in their days, so to them, me living at home (and under their watch/rules) is just The Way Things Are Done in their view. When I have brought up going on my own for independence's sake, I've been met with "But we don't interfere with your life!1!!1" protests; it's kind of jarring how they can take such things so...personally. And of course, the whole boatload of worries of whether I can take care of myself and I'll get sick and they can take so much better care of me and aren't I silly for moving out because of some delusional view of independence??? ...yeah...
posted by Hakaisha at 1:34 PM on December 8, 2009
It has been established that were I to move out they would still pay my tuition but I'd pay all extra costs incurred from moving out. I think that's quite fair, and I've been eyeing my bank account for moving out for the next school year. My savings can only stretch so far (even if I do go back to another part time job for the bills), so moving out immediately isn't an option. Next school year I probably won't be doing research, so actually having enough time for a part time job would be likely.
We don't really fight that much. There have been fights about curfews and boyfriends, but they're pretty few and far between as I'm mostly the quiet type (not much point in fighting about curfews when I stay out late infrequently to begin with). I do bristle somewhat at the restrictions on principle (I'm a very big Principles person), but seeing as my boyfriend and my friends are all buried under work/school like me there really hasn't been much opportunity to want to rebel, so Things We Argue About tend to be swept under the rug after a while and just Not Talked About. I think the main problem is that instead of fighting, we're simply not talking. About much of anything.
I think they did live at home until they got married back in their days, so to them, me living at home (and under their watch/rules) is just The Way Things Are Done in their view. When I have brought up going on my own for independence's sake, I've been met with "But we don't interfere with your life!1!!1" protests; it's kind of jarring how they can take such things so...personally. And of course, the whole boatload of worries of whether I can take care of myself and I'll get sick and they can take so much better care of me and aren't I silly for moving out because of some delusional view of independence??? ...yeah...
posted by Hakaisha at 1:34 PM on December 8, 2009
Response by poster: Should've also mentioned that I have moved out twice; once to dorm (where they visited me practically every weekend, something I found touching but also very exasperating) and once to another province for a work internship. So it's not that I can't take care of myself and/or hold a job along with work; I can and I have. But parents worry.
posted by Hakaisha at 1:38 PM on December 8, 2009
posted by Hakaisha at 1:38 PM on December 8, 2009
Best answer: *Opens up bag of Asian parent stereotypes and reaches in*
Here's my observations of first hand observation of asian parents. You've been raised in a culture of individualism while your parents were raised in a culture of collectivism. You're culture defines success as what you can achieve on your own merits, their culture defines success as how well the collective unit (in this case the family) benefits from your efforts. Of course, it's dangerous to apply the broad brush of stereotypes to specific situations, but it might help to put some context around where your parents are (probably) coming from.
I think learning more Chinese won't hurt, but I don't think its the big issue. I think the big issue is the culture clash. Just realize that by being yourself you push them out of their comfort zone, to them you behave somewhat irrationally. Of course you're not acting irrationally, you are just have a different foundation than them.
If you want a deeper connection with them then have conversations with them around their cultural center points. Family and relations are a good place to start. Ask them about extended family, or what so-so is doing these days. Ask them if they miss anybody from China, and other stuff like that. This doesn't have to be a deep, long conversation, just enough to let them know you value the things that interconnect themselves to others. They are probably not into individual material or individual accomplishment discussions that much, or at least might feel a bit uncomfortable with it. Though, strangely, inquiring about the material situation of others is often perfectly fine.
In that vein, realize that when you bring a friend over they are going to ask how much money they or their family makes, how much did they pay for their house, where do they work, or some other semi-privacy invading questions like that. It has been my experience that privacy expectations are quite different between western and eastern cultures, in general.
I could go on, but I've rambled on too much, hopefully you get the idea.
Oh, I did want to mention one more thing. This does not mean you have to change anything about you or your values, be yourself, but if you take a few moments to let your family know that they are an important part of your life it will help. Also, they will still pressure you to stay with them, get a good job, get married, have kids, etc, etc ... but when you hear that, just mentally translate it to them saying "I love you", and smile and go on your way.
If the above actually works, you can then use it as an inroads to your brother as well. Saying something like "Hey Bro, does mom always pull that guilt trip when you want to go hang out with someone? Well, I tried this the other day and it totally worked and thought it might help you too". Or something.
Now, if i can just get my kids to take some of my own advice ...
On preview ... regarding rent
Oh no, paying rent won't help at all. That's an act of individualism, not collectivism. What would be better would be to cook dinner for them one night, or some other helpful chore that you can tolerate that helps them. Their world view is not wrong, just different, and I'm fairly certain that you'll come around to appreciating it more in a few more years.
If it's too hard to start a conversation, after a family dinner (I assume those go on) tell your mom that you're gonna clean up this time. That will probably help thin the ice.
Good luck!
posted by forforf at 1:43 PM on December 8, 2009 [5 favorites]
Here's my observations of first hand observation of asian parents. You've been raised in a culture of individualism while your parents were raised in a culture of collectivism. You're culture defines success as what you can achieve on your own merits, their culture defines success as how well the collective unit (in this case the family) benefits from your efforts. Of course, it's dangerous to apply the broad brush of stereotypes to specific situations, but it might help to put some context around where your parents are (probably) coming from.
I think learning more Chinese won't hurt, but I don't think its the big issue. I think the big issue is the culture clash. Just realize that by being yourself you push them out of their comfort zone, to them you behave somewhat irrationally. Of course you're not acting irrationally, you are just have a different foundation than them.
If you want a deeper connection with them then have conversations with them around their cultural center points. Family and relations are a good place to start. Ask them about extended family, or what so-so is doing these days. Ask them if they miss anybody from China, and other stuff like that. This doesn't have to be a deep, long conversation, just enough to let them know you value the things that interconnect themselves to others. They are probably not into individual material or individual accomplishment discussions that much, or at least might feel a bit uncomfortable with it. Though, strangely, inquiring about the material situation of others is often perfectly fine.
In that vein, realize that when you bring a friend over they are going to ask how much money they or their family makes, how much did they pay for their house, where do they work, or some other semi-privacy invading questions like that. It has been my experience that privacy expectations are quite different between western and eastern cultures, in general.
"Hey, I'm going out with x" whereas Mom would go "How come you don't ever tell us these things beforehand?" even though she wouldn't try to stop me from going or anything.Heh, this one took me a while to figure out. Let me translate this (as based on my experience). First, I need to preface this with my experience has been more around Koreans than Chinese, and the Koreans I know are EXTREMELY fond of just deciding to do something socially without any prior warning or planning. Having said that, I can absolutely see this exact type of exchange with a parent/child. The issue is not that there wasn't prior warning, it's that they feel excluded from the activity (remember the collectivism?). What would make them more comfortable would be for friend x to come over say hi for a bit and then you guys take off, or, ask them if they want to come along with you on your visit to friend x (or if you're worried they might say yes to that, tell them that you want to take them to meet friend x, but this isn't a good time). Also, what would probably really get you some good points is to bring them a gift from friend x. It doesn't have to be anything fancy ... For example, you and friend x go out to dinner, and there's left overs, ask your friend if its ok for you to take some home. When you get home, say hi mom!, friend x thought you might like some of this food so he/she had me bring you some. You don't have to immerse yourself in their world, just acknowledge that it exists.
I could go on, but I've rambled on too much, hopefully you get the idea.
Oh, I did want to mention one more thing. This does not mean you have to change anything about you or your values, be yourself, but if you take a few moments to let your family know that they are an important part of your life it will help. Also, they will still pressure you to stay with them, get a good job, get married, have kids, etc, etc ... but when you hear that, just mentally translate it to them saying "I love you", and smile and go on your way.
If the above actually works, you can then use it as an inroads to your brother as well. Saying something like "Hey Bro, does mom always pull that guilt trip when you want to go hang out with someone? Well, I tried this the other day and it totally worked and thought it might help you too". Or something.
Now, if i can just get my kids to take some of my own advice ...
On preview ... regarding rent
Oh no, paying rent won't help at all. That's an act of individualism, not collectivism. What would be better would be to cook dinner for them one night, or some other helpful chore that you can tolerate that helps them. Their world view is not wrong, just different, and I'm fairly certain that you'll come around to appreciating it more in a few more years.
If it's too hard to start a conversation, after a family dinner (I assume those go on) tell your mom that you're gonna clean up this time. That will probably help thin the ice.
Good luck!
posted by forforf at 1:43 PM on December 8, 2009 [5 favorites]
I think the main problem is that instead of fighting, we're simply not talking. About much of anything.
I think I really know where you're coming from here, because this is like my relationship with my family. This may be too much focusing through the lens of my own relationship with my parents, but...
What kind of relationship do you WANT with your parents, and are they capable of letting your current relationship evolve in that direction?
Moving out will help move you down the path, but it's not a magic wand which will get you "talking" with your parents, or interacting as something other than parent-and-child. This is not a change that can or will happen overnight.
This is partly because of cultural hang-ups about generational roles, and partly because of what's probably a vast divergence in interests. For me, I've always felt that if we all work at things enough, we can move things towards a more meaningful adult relationship. But deep down, I am acknowledging that we may never get there.
posted by QuantumMeruit at 2:07 PM on December 8, 2009
I think I really know where you're coming from here, because this is like my relationship with my family. This may be too much focusing through the lens of my own relationship with my parents, but...
What kind of relationship do you WANT with your parents, and are they capable of letting your current relationship evolve in that direction?
Moving out will help move you down the path, but it's not a magic wand which will get you "talking" with your parents, or interacting as something other than parent-and-child. This is not a change that can or will happen overnight.
This is partly because of cultural hang-ups about generational roles, and partly because of what's probably a vast divergence in interests. For me, I've always felt that if we all work at things enough, we can move things towards a more meaningful adult relationship. But deep down, I am acknowledging that we may never get there.
posted by QuantumMeruit at 2:07 PM on December 8, 2009
This advice might not be relevant, as I'm American and 0% Asian, but I do have an older brother. One thing I've found is that the way the two of us relate to each other is vastly different depending on who else is around, especially if those other people are our parents. We've both been living on our own for many years now, and to this day something weird happens on family vacations or get-togethers, when we go back to being "the kids" and relating primarily to our parents instead of each other. It helps a lot to spend some time apart, just the two of us, going out to a movie or for a walk or a drink, anything where we can just be adults having a conversation together.
So my suggestion is to invite your brother to do things with you outside of the house, without parents or friends or anyone else. Get to know the person he is when he isn't busy being your parents' son, and let him get to know the other you as well. Go to a sports event or a game store or a bar. You don't have to grill him about his philosophical beliefs the first time out, just talk about your shared interests, or your research, or joke around about your family. Treat him like any other person you want to become friends with.
posted by unsub at 2:11 PM on December 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
So my suggestion is to invite your brother to do things with you outside of the house, without parents or friends or anyone else. Get to know the person he is when he isn't busy being your parents' son, and let him get to know the other you as well. Go to a sports event or a game store or a bar. You don't have to grill him about his philosophical beliefs the first time out, just talk about your shared interests, or your research, or joke around about your family. Treat him like any other person you want to become friends with.
posted by unsub at 2:11 PM on December 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
So, I'm also 2nd generation with Chinese parents, so what the heck do I know about Asian culture, but I would suggest that while our Canadian brainwashing has led us to believe that intimacy is all about Deep Discussion and the sharing of meaningful thoughts and feelings, Asian familial intimacy revolves much more on shared routine and intermeshed daily lives than on emoting. My own experience (I moved out for university at 18) was that moving out solved the fighting-over-boys problem, but didn't improve that sense of unconnectedness.
I still feel wistful about not having a close relationship with my parents, and I'll be watching this thread for other advice that takes the cultural gap into account, but for now, what seems to work is to just spend time at home (which unfortunately now means booking a flight and using up precious vacation time), doing boring everyday things. I sit in the living room with my dad when he watches the news, or hang around the kitchen while my mother cooks dinner. It's mundane and sometimes astonishingly boring, but they seem to appreciate the gesture, and occasionally, in between the looooong stretches of awkward silence, we end up talking about something that matters.
So I guess what I want to say is, the cultural gap applies not just to language and political ideas, but also to the actual definition of what a close relationship looks and feels like. And while living at home can be incredibly trying, it also gives you a chance to achieve a kind of intimacy with your parents that will be more difficult to maintain once you're separated by a car or plane ride. As stereotypical Asian parents, your mother and father are probably more comfortable expressing caring through everyday deeds than through words, so if you want to show that you'd like to be closer to them, the easiest way may be to go grocery shopping with them every week, or shovel the snow more often. The underlying emotional stuff will go unsaid, but probably not unnoticed.
posted by TheLittlestRobot at 2:47 PM on December 8, 2009 [2 favorites]
I still feel wistful about not having a close relationship with my parents, and I'll be watching this thread for other advice that takes the cultural gap into account, but for now, what seems to work is to just spend time at home (which unfortunately now means booking a flight and using up precious vacation time), doing boring everyday things. I sit in the living room with my dad when he watches the news, or hang around the kitchen while my mother cooks dinner. It's mundane and sometimes astonishingly boring, but they seem to appreciate the gesture, and occasionally, in between the looooong stretches of awkward silence, we end up talking about something that matters.
So I guess what I want to say is, the cultural gap applies not just to language and political ideas, but also to the actual definition of what a close relationship looks and feels like. And while living at home can be incredibly trying, it also gives you a chance to achieve a kind of intimacy with your parents that will be more difficult to maintain once you're separated by a car or plane ride. As stereotypical Asian parents, your mother and father are probably more comfortable expressing caring through everyday deeds than through words, so if you want to show that you'd like to be closer to them, the easiest way may be to go grocery shopping with them every week, or shovel the snow more often. The underlying emotional stuff will go unsaid, but probably not unnoticed.
posted by TheLittlestRobot at 2:47 PM on December 8, 2009 [2 favorites]
I know exactly where you're coming from. I'm staying at my mom's and my older brother lives here too. Everything you say rings true for me. I'm saving up money to leave. It's very frustrating to live here. They both make me crazy. Families really are a strange thing, aren't they? The only reason I can see for staying is that I help my Mom out with things that are harder for her to do now that she's getting older (in her 80s), but I know that's not a good enough reason for staying in a miserable situation.
posted by VC Drake at 5:57 PM on December 8, 2009
posted by VC Drake at 5:57 PM on December 8, 2009
I think that in some ways, you are getting stuck on the details (language/cultural barriers) and missing the larger point when trying to connect with your parents. I'm going to say up front that you have some things that I never had - supportive parents who are helping you to be successful and who want you to do well without jealousy. But, I do know a bit about carving out your own space in a family. You've already hit on the big one - their house, their rules, and by your description it sounds like you are doing your best to respect their positions. What you are getting hung up on is wanting them to understand you. Families are messy things - people who would never be friends in another role end up connected by the strongest of ties - and this is a minefield of misunderstandings and frustration. That's what family is.
So, what can you do? Respect their position, realize that they want the best for you (whatever their idea of best is) and that you want the same for them. Connect with them below the noise - as your loving parents and not as aliens who don't understand role playing games. Continue to advocate for what you want with the understanding that they may not have any frame of reference necessary to help you make it happen. Learn something about them as people and do your best to help them understand who you are, even if they don't understand what you do. When we're young, sometimes the need to be understood becomes the primary thing, but eventually we all learn that it's incredibly rare for one human to truly understand another and the best that we can hope for is to be appreciated. Appreciate them and keep to your path - they will be on your side even if they don't know what it is.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 7:21 PM on December 8, 2009
So, what can you do? Respect their position, realize that they want the best for you (whatever their idea of best is) and that you want the same for them. Connect with them below the noise - as your loving parents and not as aliens who don't understand role playing games. Continue to advocate for what you want with the understanding that they may not have any frame of reference necessary to help you make it happen. Learn something about them as people and do your best to help them understand who you are, even if they don't understand what you do. When we're young, sometimes the need to be understood becomes the primary thing, but eventually we all learn that it's incredibly rare for one human to truly understand another and the best that we can hope for is to be appreciated. Appreciate them and keep to your path - they will be on your side even if they don't know what it is.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 7:21 PM on December 8, 2009
As someone who can relate to a lot of things in your post, let me first say that I don’t mean any of this in a bad/mean way.
Don’t fool yourself into thinking that the language barrier is the problem here. The fact that you don’t feel connected to your brother is proof enough. Sure, it helps in understanding each other more easily but the problem is that you don’t think like your parents and you have different perspectives on various issues. The thing is, parents are not like laptops that you can customize according to your likes and they are not life-partners that you can be picky about. They are who they are and we don’t get to pick them. The sooner we make our peace with this, and quit trying to make everyone else see everything the way we do, the sooner we can be happy. If you cannot change yourself at 22 and look at life the way they do, how can you expect them to look at things your way at their age? It is not their fault, as it is not yours, that you are both so very different. And really, its okay to not understand each other’s every single joke and interest- that’s what your friends are for. Respect is more important there. If you keep expecting things they can’t be, you aren’t making it any easier for yourself. I am not saying they can’t change- you know them best- maybe they can, maybe not- and you already know the answer to that by now. If your wavelengths are just out of phase, make your peace with it.
Being financially independent and moving away from home certainly helps. I’m not sure if your parents would see you as an adult as a result of it but it surely gives you space and sanity. I dont have the answer to how one can build deeper relationships- the dynamics also changes once you leave home, with both parents and siblings. And you can’t do the work alone, by yourself. The other person has to be just as interested in doing the same. I liked Liqourice’s advice on this. I think a good start is to acknowledge that everyone is different, even if they are family, and not everyone is just as interested in doing this, even if they are family. You can try, be open-minded, respectful and hopeful- that is all I think a single person can do.
posted by xm at 10:14 PM on December 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
Don’t fool yourself into thinking that the language barrier is the problem here. The fact that you don’t feel connected to your brother is proof enough. Sure, it helps in understanding each other more easily but the problem is that you don’t think like your parents and you have different perspectives on various issues. The thing is, parents are not like laptops that you can customize according to your likes and they are not life-partners that you can be picky about. They are who they are and we don’t get to pick them. The sooner we make our peace with this, and quit trying to make everyone else see everything the way we do, the sooner we can be happy. If you cannot change yourself at 22 and look at life the way they do, how can you expect them to look at things your way at their age? It is not their fault, as it is not yours, that you are both so very different. And really, its okay to not understand each other’s every single joke and interest- that’s what your friends are for. Respect is more important there. If you keep expecting things they can’t be, you aren’t making it any easier for yourself. I am not saying they can’t change- you know them best- maybe they can, maybe not- and you already know the answer to that by now. If your wavelengths are just out of phase, make your peace with it.
Being financially independent and moving away from home certainly helps. I’m not sure if your parents would see you as an adult as a result of it but it surely gives you space and sanity. I dont have the answer to how one can build deeper relationships- the dynamics also changes once you leave home, with both parents and siblings. And you can’t do the work alone, by yourself. The other person has to be just as interested in doing the same. I liked Liqourice’s advice on this. I think a good start is to acknowledge that everyone is different, even if they are family, and not everyone is just as interested in doing this, even if they are family. You can try, be open-minded, respectful and hopeful- that is all I think a single person can do.
posted by xm at 10:14 PM on December 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
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posted by restless_nomad at 12:26 PM on December 8, 2009 [1 favorite]