Stupid Facebook
August 3, 2009 7:44 AM Subscribe
My husband snooped in my Facebook. Now what?
My husband just confessed to me that he snooped in my Facebook account. Needless to say, he didn't like what he found.
I have an online crush on a friend of a friend. I have never met this person, and don't expect I ever will. I just thought it was harmless fun to see some random pics on my friends FB page, and ask a few questions about him. I haven't even chatted with this person online. So in my opinion, this whole thing shouldn't even be an issue. In my mind, it ranks up there with my husband staring at the the women joggers who wear sports bras as he drives by them - no harm, no foul.
Well, I'm very wrong. He was pretty upset. He thought that there must be something missing in my life (romance?) for me to have a crush on someone. Nothing is missing, I just like clicking around and looking at pictures on FB.
What do I say to him about this? Have you ever been in a situation like this? How did you diffuse it?
(And yes, I changed my FB password and did not save it to automatically log me in as I had before.)
My husband just confessed to me that he snooped in my Facebook account. Needless to say, he didn't like what he found.
I have an online crush on a friend of a friend. I have never met this person, and don't expect I ever will. I just thought it was harmless fun to see some random pics on my friends FB page, and ask a few questions about him. I haven't even chatted with this person online. So in my opinion, this whole thing shouldn't even be an issue. In my mind, it ranks up there with my husband staring at the the women joggers who wear sports bras as he drives by them - no harm, no foul.
Well, I'm very wrong. He was pretty upset. He thought that there must be something missing in my life (romance?) for me to have a crush on someone. Nothing is missing, I just like clicking around and looking at pictures on FB.
What do I say to him about this? Have you ever been in a situation like this? How did you diffuse it?
(And yes, I changed my FB password and did not save it to automatically log me in as I had before.)
First of all, he doesnt trust you, there's an issue right there, so why is this the case?
Second of all, look, you are not only JUST looking at pictures, we all have facebook and unless you wrote something to a friend or to the crush in question, there's no way he would have found out....you were probably actively flirting and talking to this person (or there was clear evidence that you were doing so, or thinking of doing so) otherwise your husband would not have found out anything other than that person being your "Facebook Friend"
THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM YOUR HUSBAND STARING AT BREASTS, see he is just LOOKING, if he actually goes to talk to this person and makes friend with them and gets their number and tells them they are attractive...then you are on the same page........
Can you tell me this is no harm no foul?
Look I know that you havent done anything, you havent made out, you havent been physical you havent met with the guy....but if I was your husband I wouldnt let you come to me with this "No Harm, No foul" bs, I think you should try being honest, both with yourself FIRST, then with your husband, once you get to do that then you guys probably will be able to move on (because at the end of the day "nothing" actually happened right?)
posted by The1andonly at 8:01 AM on August 3, 2009 [10 favorites]
Second of all, look, you are not only JUST looking at pictures, we all have facebook and unless you wrote something to a friend or to the crush in question, there's no way he would have found out....you were probably actively flirting and talking to this person (or there was clear evidence that you were doing so, or thinking of doing so) otherwise your husband would not have found out anything other than that person being your "Facebook Friend"
THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM YOUR HUSBAND STARING AT BREASTS, see he is just LOOKING, if he actually goes to talk to this person and makes friend with them and gets their number and tells them they are attractive...then you are on the same page........
Can you tell me this is no harm no foul?
Look I know that you havent done anything, you havent made out, you havent been physical you havent met with the guy....but if I was your husband I wouldnt let you come to me with this "No Harm, No foul" bs, I think you should try being honest, both with yourself FIRST, then with your husband, once you get to do that then you guys probably will be able to move on (because at the end of the day "nothing" actually happened right?)
posted by The1andonly at 8:01 AM on August 3, 2009 [10 favorites]
Your comparison is not apt.
If your husband stares at a woman as he drives by, that's random. What you've done is to seek out a person you're attracted to, engaged in questioning (either of or to, it's not 100% clear from your description,) and set yourself on a path that could lead to further contact. When your husband glances at the woman jogging, he doesn't pull over, roll down the window, and ask her name. That's what you've done here.
Now, whether your husband should be hurt, is another question. Certainly he has some standing, though I suspect that if this was a one time thing many men would let it go. Which begs the question: what else are you doing that has your husband on edge? Have you hinted at other crushes subconsciously? Have you displayed some lack of attraction to your husband? These things, slight though they maybe, add up in the minds of men.
In short: he was snooping on your facebook for a reason.
My advice: do your relationship a favor and get off facebook. Then recommit yourself to your husband (unless you're truly not in love with him anymore, but that's another AskMe.)
posted by wfrgms at 8:02 AM on August 3, 2009 [27 favorites]
If your husband stares at a woman as he drives by, that's random. What you've done is to seek out a person you're attracted to, engaged in questioning (either of or to, it's not 100% clear from your description,) and set yourself on a path that could lead to further contact. When your husband glances at the woman jogging, he doesn't pull over, roll down the window, and ask her name. That's what you've done here.
Now, whether your husband should be hurt, is another question. Certainly he has some standing, though I suspect that if this was a one time thing many men would let it go. Which begs the question: what else are you doing that has your husband on edge? Have you hinted at other crushes subconsciously? Have you displayed some lack of attraction to your husband? These things, slight though they maybe, add up in the minds of men.
In short: he was snooping on your facebook for a reason.
My advice: do your relationship a favor and get off facebook. Then recommit yourself to your husband (unless you're truly not in love with him anymore, but that's another AskMe.)
posted by wfrgms at 8:02 AM on August 3, 2009 [27 favorites]
Parse this out - I think it will help.
First, deal with your husband's hurt over your emotional cheating. From his perspective (and mine) you were exploring your options. That you didn't act on it, or from your perspective you weren't going to act on it is beside the point. How would you feel if you found your husband had created an account on an "adult" friends site and had checked out local women offering themselves for sex?
Next, question yourself about why you think you need a private life, separate from your husband.
And finally, come to an agreement with each other. You can both look, but any fantasizing must be either completely in your own heads or in shared play together. Look at porn or passing strangers, but no online preparations to cheat.
posted by cptnrandy at 8:10 AM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
First, deal with your husband's hurt over your emotional cheating. From his perspective (and mine) you were exploring your options. That you didn't act on it, or from your perspective you weren't going to act on it is beside the point. How would you feel if you found your husband had created an account on an "adult" friends site and had checked out local women offering themselves for sex?
Next, question yourself about why you think you need a private life, separate from your husband.
And finally, come to an agreement with each other. You can both look, but any fantasizing must be either completely in your own heads or in shared play together. Look at porn or passing strangers, but no online preparations to cheat.
posted by cptnrandy at 8:10 AM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
Snooping is not acceptable, but I don't think the right solution is to change your password and start an argument about it. Regardless of your justification, if your behavior bothers him, it should be an issue in your relationship. Don't prioritize your crush over your marriage, please.
I don't mind my SO looking at my facebook and vice versa, as I have nothing to hide from her and presumably, she has nothing to hide from me. I don't go into her account, but I have no reason to; once we start keeping secrets from each other is when our relationship starts to crumble.
What caused your husband to look into your account in the first place?
posted by gushn at 8:11 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't mind my SO looking at my facebook and vice versa, as I have nothing to hide from her and presumably, she has nothing to hide from me. I don't go into her account, but I have no reason to; once we start keeping secrets from each other is when our relationship starts to crumble.
What caused your husband to look into your account in the first place?
posted by gushn at 8:11 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't think the OP was "seeking out" her crush, but I do see where her comparison breaks down:
..harmless fun to see some random pics on my friends FB page, and ask a few questions about him...
This would be like your husband seeing a woman at a party at a friend's house, and then asking a bunch of questions about her and looking at photos of her. The degree and type of questions matter, etc. - in the end, maybe you were just spending enough time and attention on this particular person that it made your husband freak out.
It's hard to tell whether you were "wrong" from the description given.
posted by amtho at 8:11 AM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
..harmless fun to see some random pics on my friends FB page, and ask a few questions about him...
This would be like your husband seeing a woman at a party at a friend's house, and then asking a bunch of questions about her and looking at photos of her. The degree and type of questions matter, etc. - in the end, maybe you were just spending enough time and attention on this particular person that it made your husband freak out.
It's hard to tell whether you were "wrong" from the description given.
posted by amtho at 8:11 AM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
Needless to say, he didn't like what he found.
That's not needless to say. That means there was something to find. No, he shouldn't have snooped, and I always think that's a very serious issue. And that's wrong, so you need to have a discussion about trust and boundaries and snooping. It's not okay.
On the other hand, it's rarely a totally isolated phenomenon unless someone is just controlling and obsessive. It doesn't sound like he just has a general policy of being suspicious of you. This incident gave him something to be concerned about. He probably snooped because he was feeling uneasy about trusting you. Why was that?
Yes, everyone has crushes, but marriage involves controlling them. And controlling a crush means not flirting online with strangers, among others. If what he found was something that made him upset, I guess it wasn't just friendly chitchat, which shouldn't arouse anyone's concern. Are you sure your interactions with other people online are within reasonable personal boundaries? Are you leaving 'strings' out for other people to pull, seeking out the drama of a long-distance or star-crossed romance that you think you have no intention of pursuing? What would happen if your bluff was called? Do you know? Are there other communications with friends you don't want your husband to see?
It seems like at this stage you could just talk about what boundaries feel reasonable to you both. I would not accept a situation in which I couldn't write friendly notes to male friends, either of the online or IRL variety. But that's because I can give my SO my honest word that I have no interest in trolling the intarwebs for another partner or for the excitement of a crush, and wouldn't mind showing him messages I've written to any of my friends. If you can't honestly say the same, that's worth looking at. He may be right that you feel something is missing in your marriage. Or you may be right that it's just a passing crush. And we do have passing crushes, but you have to ride herd on them to be sure that's the way they stay. Flirting with your crush is a risky thing to do in a monogamous relationship, because unless your partner and the crush are both very understanding, there are too many potential misreadings of your intent.
posted by Miko at 8:11 AM on August 3, 2009 [5 favorites]
That's not needless to say. That means there was something to find. No, he shouldn't have snooped, and I always think that's a very serious issue. And that's wrong, so you need to have a discussion about trust and boundaries and snooping. It's not okay.
On the other hand, it's rarely a totally isolated phenomenon unless someone is just controlling and obsessive. It doesn't sound like he just has a general policy of being suspicious of you. This incident gave him something to be concerned about. He probably snooped because he was feeling uneasy about trusting you. Why was that?
Yes, everyone has crushes, but marriage involves controlling them. And controlling a crush means not flirting online with strangers, among others. If what he found was something that made him upset, I guess it wasn't just friendly chitchat, which shouldn't arouse anyone's concern. Are you sure your interactions with other people online are within reasonable personal boundaries? Are you leaving 'strings' out for other people to pull, seeking out the drama of a long-distance or star-crossed romance that you think you have no intention of pursuing? What would happen if your bluff was called? Do you know? Are there other communications with friends you don't want your husband to see?
It seems like at this stage you could just talk about what boundaries feel reasonable to you both. I would not accept a situation in which I couldn't write friendly notes to male friends, either of the online or IRL variety. But that's because I can give my SO my honest word that I have no interest in trolling the intarwebs for another partner or for the excitement of a crush, and wouldn't mind showing him messages I've written to any of my friends. If you can't honestly say the same, that's worth looking at. He may be right that you feel something is missing in your marriage. Or you may be right that it's just a passing crush. And we do have passing crushes, but you have to ride herd on them to be sure that's the way they stay. Flirting with your crush is a risky thing to do in a monogamous relationship, because unless your partner and the crush are both very understanding, there are too many potential misreadings of your intent.
posted by Miko at 8:11 AM on August 3, 2009 [5 favorites]
You've not chatted with nor met this person, so it's not a crush but just sexual attraction to a stranger, which has a whole lotta implications. Not to be an old lady, but you're married, so that's not cool anymore. Listen to your husband and gain back his trust. Give him access to your FB or don't go on there anymore.
posted by bunny hugger at 8:15 AM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by bunny hugger at 8:15 AM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
If I did this to a girl I was attracted to, and my SO found out, I would be in SO MUCH TROUBLE. It wouldn't matter in the least how they found out, I would be in the doghouse before you could say "Jack Robinson".
Ladies, you can't deny this. If you found out your boyfriend (let alone husband) had done this, you would all go freaking nuclear in a second, wouldn't you? OP, turn the tables on this one and see how you would feel. It seems pretty obvious.
posted by Aquaman at 8:18 AM on August 3, 2009 [9 favorites]
Ladies, you can't deny this. If you found out your boyfriend (let alone husband) had done this, you would all go freaking nuclear in a second, wouldn't you? OP, turn the tables on this one and see how you would feel. It seems pretty obvious.
posted by Aquaman at 8:18 AM on August 3, 2009 [9 favorites]
You should have personal space, and so should your husband.
On the other hand, you really shouldn't be using that personal space to do things that you know hubby wouldn't approve of. You're married now - it's time to take seriously the concerns of your spouse.
In my view, hubby taking a quick peak through your facebook and you not caring because you have nothing to hide would be the ideal outcome.
You're building walls when you need to be building bridges.
>>>I just like clicking around and looking at pictures on FB.<>
If that's all you are doing, then you wouldn't have what could be a disastrous communication break-down on your hands.
You are intentionally hiding a behavior from your hubby. That's not good.
You are acting on feelings that you should be mature enough to control out of respect to your husband and vows. Just as one doesn't vocalize every single thought, one also doesn't act on every single impulse. Start doing things to build your hubby's trust so he doesn't feel the need to snoop.
posted by rumsey monument at 8:18 AM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
You'll be divorced in less than three years, regardless of what happens next.
This is exactly what happened between my ex-wife and I; what it all boils down to is that you're not compatible with each other. Any external contact with any individual of the opposite sex that goes above and beyond simple professional or civil courtesy signals a longing for something that you're not getting inside the home (connection, companionship, attention, etc.)
I used to stare at EVERY good looking girl that walked by, even if my wife was with me. I coyly explained it away as "not being able to help myself" or the always handy "I can look at the pictures in the museum, as long as I don't take them off the wall and sleep with them" excuse. Bottom line; I wasn't as attracted to my wife as I was to those girls who walked by and I "innocently" looked at.
You're upset that he's staring at other women's breasts, and you should be. These issues have an insidious way of undermining the integrity of your relationship; soon more and more things that you do become "acceptable" in your mind...based on the things that your signifigant other's doing (and especially what you PERCEIVE them to be doing...hence the snooping). I think you're both looking for that one final excuse that'll justify sleeping with another person. I bet he pesters you about threesomes quite a bit, too.
Eventually, I ended up pursuing a coworker of mine at a company picnic (that I attended without my wife), even though I SWORE I'd never cheat on my wife. Long story short...I was seperated later that summer. Your fantasy life with this person on Facebook WILL eventually break through into your real world; and nothing good will come of it.
If you were face to face with this crush, what would you expect to happen then? I think I know....and so do you.
My best advice? Sit down with your husband, and seriously explore the possibility of going your seperate ways now. Save yourself the chaos of a long, costly and vicious divorce down the road.
posted by Biglew at 8:21 AM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
This is exactly what happened between my ex-wife and I; what it all boils down to is that you're not compatible with each other. Any external contact with any individual of the opposite sex that goes above and beyond simple professional or civil courtesy signals a longing for something that you're not getting inside the home (connection, companionship, attention, etc.)
I used to stare at EVERY good looking girl that walked by, even if my wife was with me. I coyly explained it away as "not being able to help myself" or the always handy "I can look at the pictures in the museum, as long as I don't take them off the wall and sleep with them" excuse. Bottom line; I wasn't as attracted to my wife as I was to those girls who walked by and I "innocently" looked at.
You're upset that he's staring at other women's breasts, and you should be. These issues have an insidious way of undermining the integrity of your relationship; soon more and more things that you do become "acceptable" in your mind...based on the things that your signifigant other's doing (and especially what you PERCEIVE them to be doing...hence the snooping). I think you're both looking for that one final excuse that'll justify sleeping with another person. I bet he pesters you about threesomes quite a bit, too.
Eventually, I ended up pursuing a coworker of mine at a company picnic (that I attended without my wife), even though I SWORE I'd never cheat on my wife. Long story short...I was seperated later that summer. Your fantasy life with this person on Facebook WILL eventually break through into your real world; and nothing good will come of it.
If you were face to face with this crush, what would you expect to happen then? I think I know....and so do you.
My best advice? Sit down with your husband, and seriously explore the possibility of going your seperate ways now. Save yourself the chaos of a long, costly and vicious divorce down the road.
posted by Biglew at 8:21 AM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
My take, based on long, unpleasant experience: you do not do things like this in a relationship. Some couples have funny funny har har I have a crush at work yeah me too har har relationships. You do not have one of these, or you wouldn't be so concerned with protecting your Facebook account from your husband.
I'm going to share with you Mr. Llama's take on Facebook and his personal belief that it undermines relationships, a belief he's sold me on as well. (He's on FB for work related reasons, I'm not on it at all). So Facebook is dangerous because...
1) Long lost crushes can contact you or be contacted at any time
2) There is no time limit on a Facebook crush. A work crush, you go home at the end of the day, they don't seep into your life. But you can both be on Facebook at any time.
3) By definition, the experience is filtered through a lens of fun:
Facebook: flirt flirt flirt heee heee. I am so witty!! You are so witty!!
Home: Can you take my car in for an oil change tomorrow? I think we should go up to my mother's and help her clean out her garage. Did the cat just poop?
We have a friend whose marriage just ended thanks to this. (Yes, really.) We could argue cause and effect, but it's not really the point, the point is that people very easily underestimate the significance of online flirtations; they delude themselves. I think you're deluding yourself here. I think rather than searching for something to say to your husband, your time would be better spent thinking very hard about the things he's saying, because I think he has a point.
This isn't to say slap a scarlet letter A on your head and off you go, I'm just saying, I think you're downplaying this. I don't think your password should be airtight from your husband, or that it should be a preoccupation of yours. Mr. Llama tends to have my passwords, and I tend to have his. It's no big deal. I have no desire to access his Facebook profile and he has no desire to read my email. We respect each other's privacy.
Something is up with your relationship with your husband, and I think you need to dig a little deeper here.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 8:22 AM on August 3, 2009 [41 favorites]
I'm going to share with you Mr. Llama's take on Facebook and his personal belief that it undermines relationships, a belief he's sold me on as well. (He's on FB for work related reasons, I'm not on it at all). So Facebook is dangerous because...
1) Long lost crushes can contact you or be contacted at any time
2) There is no time limit on a Facebook crush. A work crush, you go home at the end of the day, they don't seep into your life. But you can both be on Facebook at any time.
3) By definition, the experience is filtered through a lens of fun:
Facebook: flirt flirt flirt heee heee. I am so witty!! You are so witty!!
Home: Can you take my car in for an oil change tomorrow? I think we should go up to my mother's and help her clean out her garage. Did the cat just poop?
We have a friend whose marriage just ended thanks to this. (Yes, really.) We could argue cause and effect, but it's not really the point, the point is that people very easily underestimate the significance of online flirtations; they delude themselves. I think you're deluding yourself here. I think rather than searching for something to say to your husband, your time would be better spent thinking very hard about the things he's saying, because I think he has a point.
This isn't to say slap a scarlet letter A on your head and off you go, I'm just saying, I think you're downplaying this. I don't think your password should be airtight from your husband, or that it should be a preoccupation of yours. Mr. Llama tends to have my passwords, and I tend to have his. It's no big deal. I have no desire to access his Facebook profile and he has no desire to read my email. We respect each other's privacy.
Something is up with your relationship with your husband, and I think you need to dig a little deeper here.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 8:22 AM on August 3, 2009 [41 favorites]
You'll be divorced in less than three years, regardless of what happens next.
That's a little harsh, biglew. Just because it happened to you doesn't mean it will happen to her.
posted by bunny hugger at 8:25 AM on August 3, 2009 [16 favorites]
That's a little harsh, biglew. Just because it happened to you doesn't mean it will happen to her.
posted by bunny hugger at 8:25 AM on August 3, 2009 [16 favorites]
Sounds like you never had a conversation with your husband that answered questions like:
- how comfortable are you with my having friends of the opposite sex?
- what about hugging them? crashing on their sofas? confiding in them? confiding in them about our relationship?
- would platonic flirting freak you out or is that just normal?
- what would you do if you had a crush on someone else?
- how would you feel about me watching porn?
I don't think there's any right answers to these kinds of questions, but knowing what your partner thinks about them is pretty important. Now you've realised you're not on the same page about some of these kind of things, how about sitting down and asking some of these questions. You can both find out how the other thinks, and see if there's a way forward where both of you are comfortable and know the boundaries.
For that matter there's some other questions you could (both) be asking, like
- how happy are you with how our marriage is going generally?
- what could we be doing better?
Aquaman: if I found out my boyfriend was talking to/about women on the internet, I would think, sure, he has a social life. If anyone "went nuclear" on me because I had a conversation with someone about a friend of theirs, I would be baffled and angry. Unless the conversation went something like "your friend is cute, can I have his number so I can try and get in his pants". Clearly people's mileage varies.
posted by emilyw at 8:26 AM on August 3, 2009 [23 favorites]
- how comfortable are you with my having friends of the opposite sex?
- what about hugging them? crashing on their sofas? confiding in them? confiding in them about our relationship?
- would platonic flirting freak you out or is that just normal?
- what would you do if you had a crush on someone else?
- how would you feel about me watching porn?
I don't think there's any right answers to these kinds of questions, but knowing what your partner thinks about them is pretty important. Now you've realised you're not on the same page about some of these kind of things, how about sitting down and asking some of these questions. You can both find out how the other thinks, and see if there's a way forward where both of you are comfortable and know the boundaries.
For that matter there's some other questions you could (both) be asking, like
- how happy are you with how our marriage is going generally?
- what could we be doing better?
Aquaman: if I found out my boyfriend was talking to/about women on the internet, I would think, sure, he has a social life. If anyone "went nuclear" on me because I had a conversation with someone about a friend of theirs, I would be baffled and angry. Unless the conversation went something like "your friend is cute, can I have his number so I can try and get in his pants". Clearly people's mileage varies.
posted by emilyw at 8:26 AM on August 3, 2009 [23 favorites]
I agree that FB has the potential to act in the way A Terrible Llama described - and great description. But ultimately, Facebook has no power to force you into taking actions like commenting on pictures, private emailing, obsessing on an old flame, etc. It may create situations that call on you to react, but you are still in control of the reaction. You have to have your own boundaries so that you can choose a wise reaction. This isn't just an online skill, as I noted - it's a life skill. If you are always available to flirt with a crush, online or off, and are unprepared to reject any advances you get - however attractive they may be - on the basis of your prior commitment, your boundaries aren't favoring your marriage.
posted by Miko at 8:28 AM on August 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by Miko at 8:28 AM on August 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
I think it's only "snooping" because you were doing something untoward. You are far more to blame than he is, in my opinion. If he hadn't looked, and you still did what you did, you'd still be wrong.
Be happy he came to you with it rather than internalizing it and letting it fester.
posted by aleahey at 8:30 AM on August 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
Be happy he came to you with it rather than internalizing it and letting it fester.
posted by aleahey at 8:30 AM on August 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
I don't know. From the info we have, I would have guessed that the OP sent a comment to her friend (not the object of desire) along the lines of "who's the cute dude in the pictures from your party?"
While perhaps not perfect, I don't think this is "emotional cheating." A little lowbrow, maybe, and perhaps poor judgment to put on facebook, depending on wall/message used, but not necessarily a big deal.
If while looking through my pictures, one of my married friends asked who some hot person was, it would be a non-issue, as long as there was no follow-up.
It is a little weird that "crush" is the word used here, because to me, that implies more, but without more facts, I hardly think this is a death knell for the relationship.
I think that I would take the approach of saying something along the lines of "Hey, I'm sorry this upset you -- it was really just curiosity, not any dissatisfaction with our relationship. Maybe I got too caught up in the gossip swirl of facebook, I'll take a step back."
posted by mercredi at 8:39 AM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
While perhaps not perfect, I don't think this is "emotional cheating." A little lowbrow, maybe, and perhaps poor judgment to put on facebook, depending on wall/message used, but not necessarily a big deal.
If while looking through my pictures, one of my married friends asked who some hot person was, it would be a non-issue, as long as there was no follow-up.
It is a little weird that "crush" is the word used here, because to me, that implies more, but without more facts, I hardly think this is a death knell for the relationship.
I think that I would take the approach of saying something along the lines of "Hey, I'm sorry this upset you -- it was really just curiosity, not any dissatisfaction with our relationship. Maybe I got too caught up in the gossip swirl of facebook, I'll take a step back."
posted by mercredi at 8:39 AM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
See also this AskMe question, it comes from the other side of the fence.
The way I see it: this boils down to your husband's own insecurities and tendencies toward feeling jealous, and maybe even a fear of abandonment. Think back to whether he has shown any previous jealous behaviours and that might help to add context. Jealousy is incredibly common, so he is not weak for feeling it, but he would certainly be stronger for recognizing it for what it is.
Your role in bringing about the conflict does not put you in the position of being the moral criminal. There is no such thing as emotional infidelity, to think otherwise is to give validation to thought crimes. Further, crushes are absolutely normal, and you didn't cross any lines by harmless e-stalking.
Really, you should sit down with your husband and talk about why you have these crushes (everybody does, it's just the nature of the beast that is "human" - it doesn't mean there is a deficiency, but remember that the grass is always greener), really explore the feelings you are both having, and maybe decide on some boundaries that will make both of you comfortable regarding this situation and similar future situations.
posted by tybeet at 8:45 AM on August 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
The way I see it: this boils down to your husband's own insecurities and tendencies toward feeling jealous, and maybe even a fear of abandonment. Think back to whether he has shown any previous jealous behaviours and that might help to add context. Jealousy is incredibly common, so he is not weak for feeling it, but he would certainly be stronger for recognizing it for what it is.
Your role in bringing about the conflict does not put you in the position of being the moral criminal. There is no such thing as emotional infidelity, to think otherwise is to give validation to thought crimes. Further, crushes are absolutely normal, and you didn't cross any lines by harmless e-stalking.
Really, you should sit down with your husband and talk about why you have these crushes (everybody does, it's just the nature of the beast that is "human" - it doesn't mean there is a deficiency, but remember that the grass is always greener), really explore the feelings you are both having, and maybe decide on some boundaries that will make both of you comfortable regarding this situation and similar future situations.
posted by tybeet at 8:45 AM on August 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
I just thought it was harmless fun to see some random pics on my friends FB page, and ask a few questions about him. I haven't even chatted with this person online.
I just read this more carefully, that you haven't chatted with the person--my take still applies, that it's dangerous territory, but I wanted to add: this is probably a bit humiliating to your husband, to watch you talking to another friend about some other guy and yet another reason for you to take a step back and look at the big picture here. If your one friend knows, other people do as well, and that's embarrassing.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 8:46 AM on August 3, 2009 [5 favorites]
I just read this more carefully, that you haven't chatted with the person--my take still applies, that it's dangerous territory, but I wanted to add: this is probably a bit humiliating to your husband, to watch you talking to another friend about some other guy and yet another reason for you to take a step back and look at the big picture here. If your one friend knows, other people do as well, and that's embarrassing.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 8:46 AM on August 3, 2009 [5 favorites]
We don't really have a good idea of what happened here, which is leading to very divergent responses. And since the OP is anon, we can't find out more.
The questions seem to divide into: 1) was I wrong to do this thing (whatever it was) and/or keep it from my husband? and 2) what do I do now that he's upset, whether or not I was wrong.
No one can answer 1) except tautologically: if your husband is upset, either you're minimizing a pretty significant breach of protocol in your marriage and thus did something wrong or he's an over-sensitive ass and there's still something wrong in your marriage. Or it could be a simple misunderstanding where you can negotiate more explicit terms of engagement for the future. We cannot judge which is the case from what you've said. So the best any of us can do is imagine a set of details as a premise. Or argue from a general principle, i.e., "you are/aren't entitled to a private emotional garden in a marriage."
2) would seem to be easier to answer on its own: whatever the explanation, there's been a breach of trust here on both sides, and you need to communicate openly and honestly. Of course, the substance of that communication will depend both on what *really* went down here, and whether it's symptomatic of a broader spectrum of secrets and miscommunications and hurt feelings.
Or we can speculate on the broader question of whether Facebook in particular, social networking and the connected life in general, are good or bad for (or have any effect on) our broader culture of relationships, and romance, and where we draw the line between private and public. That's always fun. Red meat for the AskMe crowd, but lacking a definitive answer or the possibility of one.
The one obvious truth here is that after turning to a relative stranger (and was he the first or only such stranger?) on the internet for some emotional stimulation, you have now turned to a group of relative strangers on the internet for what can only be reinforcement of whatever it is you have already decided is the meaning of this episode in your life.
No wonder your husband is jealous.
posted by fourcheesemac at 8:55 AM on August 3, 2009 [7 favorites]
The questions seem to divide into: 1) was I wrong to do this thing (whatever it was) and/or keep it from my husband? and 2) what do I do now that he's upset, whether or not I was wrong.
No one can answer 1) except tautologically: if your husband is upset, either you're minimizing a pretty significant breach of protocol in your marriage and thus did something wrong or he's an over-sensitive ass and there's still something wrong in your marriage. Or it could be a simple misunderstanding where you can negotiate more explicit terms of engagement for the future. We cannot judge which is the case from what you've said. So the best any of us can do is imagine a set of details as a premise. Or argue from a general principle, i.e., "you are/aren't entitled to a private emotional garden in a marriage."
2) would seem to be easier to answer on its own: whatever the explanation, there's been a breach of trust here on both sides, and you need to communicate openly and honestly. Of course, the substance of that communication will depend both on what *really* went down here, and whether it's symptomatic of a broader spectrum of secrets and miscommunications and hurt feelings.
Or we can speculate on the broader question of whether Facebook in particular, social networking and the connected life in general, are good or bad for (or have any effect on) our broader culture of relationships, and romance, and where we draw the line between private and public. That's always fun. Red meat for the AskMe crowd, but lacking a definitive answer or the possibility of one.
The one obvious truth here is that after turning to a relative stranger (and was he the first or only such stranger?) on the internet for some emotional stimulation, you have now turned to a group of relative strangers on the internet for what can only be reinforcement of whatever it is you have already decided is the meaning of this episode in your life.
No wonder your husband is jealous.
posted by fourcheesemac at 8:55 AM on August 3, 2009 [7 favorites]
Ladies, you can't deny this. If you found out your boyfriend (let alone husband) had done this, you would all go freaking nuclear in a second, wouldn't you? OP, turn the tables on this one and see how you would feel. It seems pretty obvious.
umm... no. some of us have relationships where online (and even in person! oh my!) flirtations are allowed.
if my partner snooped into my Second Life account, he might find some conversations that were quite sexual. however, he knows that i "play" online. and thus, he has no need to snoop.
your problem revolves less around a flirtation than around a lack of mutual understanding of honesty and what is okay in your relationship.
posted by RedEmma at 8:59 AM on August 3, 2009
umm... no. some of us have relationships where online (and even in person! oh my!) flirtations are allowed.
if my partner snooped into my Second Life account, he might find some conversations that were quite sexual. however, he knows that i "play" online. and thus, he has no need to snoop.
your problem revolves less around a flirtation than around a lack of mutual understanding of honesty and what is okay in your relationship.
posted by RedEmma at 8:59 AM on August 3, 2009
Remember that online communication has the potential to be misread much more than face-to-face speech. You might have read the Facebook comments as "OMG that guy is so freaking cute! Is he single? DOES HE WANT TO BE?!?!" as LOL silly times.
Whereas someone else (a.k.a. your husband) can't hear the fun jocular tone in your head and may feel very threatened. Not only are you saying things like this about a hot stranger, other people besides him can read it.
So now this cannot be about who is 'right' or 'wrong' - you will destroy yourself trying and probably make things worse ("I just thought he was adorable and sexy - nothing more! By the way you're pretty cute too!"). Sit down with your husband and apologize if only for the fact that you made him feel bad. At this point, I would just admit that I wasn't thinking at the time and reassure him that you didn't mean anything by it and were just being careless. And keep in mind that your husband's ego is probably bruised and make dates for quality time just for you two.
I hope that everything works out - it would suck to let something small like this come between you.
posted by amicamentis at 9:05 AM on August 3, 2009 [3 favorites]
Whereas someone else (a.k.a. your husband) can't hear the fun jocular tone in your head and may feel very threatened. Not only are you saying things like this about a hot stranger, other people besides him can read it.
So now this cannot be about who is 'right' or 'wrong' - you will destroy yourself trying and probably make things worse ("I just thought he was adorable and sexy - nothing more! By the way you're pretty cute too!"). Sit down with your husband and apologize if only for the fact that you made him feel bad. At this point, I would just admit that I wasn't thinking at the time and reassure him that you didn't mean anything by it and were just being careless. And keep in mind that your husband's ego is probably bruised and make dates for quality time just for you two.
I hope that everything works out - it would suck to let something small like this come between you.
posted by amicamentis at 9:05 AM on August 3, 2009 [3 favorites]
I think you guys need to sit down and talk about the rules of your relationship and how you deal with crushes on other people and privacy and all of that, and (this is the important part) keep that conversation going until you come a point you're both happy with. This will probably be a months-long conversation. And, given that he's furious and scared right now and you're pissed that he invaded your privacy, it would probably be helpful to have that conversation in the presence of an unbiased, calm third party (read: therapist).
It's not about who's right. I personally think a lot of the answers you're getting are kind of insane. But it's not important. What's important is re-establishing communication and trust with your husband, ensuring that both of you feel secure and loved by each other.
posted by heatherann at 9:08 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
It's not about who's right. I personally think a lot of the answers you're getting are kind of insane. But it's not important. What's important is re-establishing communication and trust with your husband, ensuring that both of you feel secure and loved by each other.
posted by heatherann at 9:08 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
fourcheesemac: you have now turned to a group of relative strangers on the internet for what can only be reinforcement of whatever it is you have already decided is the meaning of this episode in your life.
That's a little understated. So you think this is confirmation bias, then? Or maybe you could explain more what your message was.
In some ways, that is true.
OP: "in my opinion, this whole thing shouldn't even be an issue. In my mind, it ranks up there with my husband staring at the the women joggers who wear sports bras as he drives by them - no harm, no foul."
This suggests that she thinks what she did is okay, but just because she has an opinion on this that she states doesn't mean that a reality check isn't warranted. Most people who come to AskMe already have an idea in mind, but are looking for alternative viewpoints. For social questions I think this is always true.
I think maybe you were commenting more on the fact that she is relying on the internet for stimulation and support, but is that inherently wrong? I think we would have to know whether she was using online fora as supplement to, or replacement for something in her life (with special consideration for her husband), and then it becomes something resembling a philosophical question on the meaning of real-vs-digital social networks.
I'm not trying to derail, I just thought this was interesting and relevant in a very broad sense.
posted by tybeet at 9:11 AM on August 3, 2009
That's a little understated. So you think this is confirmation bias, then? Or maybe you could explain more what your message was.
In some ways, that is true.
OP: "in my opinion, this whole thing shouldn't even be an issue. In my mind, it ranks up there with my husband staring at the the women joggers who wear sports bras as he drives by them - no harm, no foul."
This suggests that she thinks what she did is okay, but just because she has an opinion on this that she states doesn't mean that a reality check isn't warranted. Most people who come to AskMe already have an idea in mind, but are looking for alternative viewpoints. For social questions I think this is always true.
I think maybe you were commenting more on the fact that she is relying on the internet for stimulation and support, but is that inherently wrong? I think we would have to know whether she was using online fora as supplement to, or replacement for something in her life (with special consideration for her husband), and then it becomes something resembling a philosophical question on the meaning of real-vs-digital social networks.
I'm not trying to derail, I just thought this was interesting and relevant in a very broad sense.
posted by tybeet at 9:11 AM on August 3, 2009
I feel compelled to stop for a moment and clarify a point of terminology.
If you stay logged in to Facebook on a shared computer and your husband heads over to Facebook and sees things you didn't want him to see, that's not him "snooping." That's him "opening a browser and noticing shit." It's unfair to accuse him of snooping when you leave stuff laying around in the open.
posted by kprincehouse at 9:16 AM on August 3, 2009 [9 favorites]
If you stay logged in to Facebook on a shared computer and your husband heads over to Facebook and sees things you didn't want him to see, that's not him "snooping." That's him "opening a browser and noticing shit." It's unfair to accuse him of snooping when you leave stuff laying around in the open.
posted by kprincehouse at 9:16 AM on August 3, 2009 [9 favorites]
Biglew, if I gave advice like you just, a lot of men would pipe up saying that's just not true. Don't you even think that maybe the OP is different than you are and that your problem is not as universal as you'd like to think it is?
posted by anniecat at 9:22 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by anniecat at 9:22 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
What do I say to him about this?
You say something like this: "I understand I hurt you, and I'm sorry. I want you to trust me, and I want us to talk about this. I'd like you to go first; please talk with me about why you were on my Facebook account, and what changes you'd like to see in our relationship going forward. Then, I'd like to share with you why I was doing this. Hopefully we can work this out, because I never want us to hurt each other."
And then, you really really listen.
posted by Houstonian at 9:29 AM on August 3, 2009 [11 favorites]
You say something like this: "I understand I hurt you, and I'm sorry. I want you to trust me, and I want us to talk about this. I'd like you to go first; please talk with me about why you were on my Facebook account, and what changes you'd like to see in our relationship going forward. Then, I'd like to share with you why I was doing this. Hopefully we can work this out, because I never want us to hurt each other."
And then, you really really listen.
posted by Houstonian at 9:29 AM on August 3, 2009 [11 favorites]
OP, while I don't fully agree with Biglew, I do think that you have rendered a potentially fatal blow to your relationship. Crushes are a natural part of human relationships, but you've taken it to the next level by seeking this person out (via your friend), even if you never initiated direct contact. But who knows what would have happened next month if your SO had not found out? You had opened the door.
So, you've exposed the fact that you're looking for something/someone else (again, even if it was "only a crush"), and your SO has found out about it. Kudos for him to bring it to you--but there is a seed of relationship cancer there now. If you want to make it work, you can't just assume you've kissed and made up and everything is fine now. These things linger, fester and erupt later.
Go to couple's therapy. Take yourself off FB. Be grateful for a second chance.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 9:34 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
So, you've exposed the fact that you're looking for something/someone else (again, even if it was "only a crush"), and your SO has found out about it. Kudos for him to bring it to you--but there is a seed of relationship cancer there now. If you want to make it work, you can't just assume you've kissed and made up and everything is fine now. These things linger, fester and erupt later.
Go to couple's therapy. Take yourself off FB. Be grateful for a second chance.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 9:34 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't think that Facebook is damaging to marriages, per se. (But that's a big per se)
It's you who is in command of your own behavior, and at the end of the day, you made your husband anxious and upset, and are now locking him out (tempting to do, but not the right course of action here, IMO).
If he's truly a jealous freak, then DTMFA, but that's not what you said. He confessed he snooped, was hurt by what he saw, and now you are getting defensive.
To diffuse, apologize and be an open book. Have a convo with your hubby about what's okay and what's not okay. Give him some of that attention of yours.
It will be okay. Just talk to each other.
posted by Grlnxtdr at 9:35 AM on August 3, 2009
It's you who is in command of your own behavior, and at the end of the day, you made your husband anxious and upset, and are now locking him out (tempting to do, but not the right course of action here, IMO).
If he's truly a jealous freak, then DTMFA, but that's not what you said. He confessed he snooped, was hurt by what he saw, and now you are getting defensive.
To diffuse, apologize and be an open book. Have a convo with your hubby about what's okay and what's not okay. Give him some of that attention of yours.
It will be okay. Just talk to each other.
posted by Grlnxtdr at 9:35 AM on August 3, 2009
Unless the conversation went something like "your friend is cute, can I have his number so I can try and get in his pants".
It sounds like the OP's questions were much closer to this than just random "who's that guy?" stuff, certainly in her mind if not the page. (I'd expect a husband to be able to pick up on motive for asking as well).
posted by fightorflight at 9:37 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
It sounds like the OP's questions were much closer to this than just random "who's that guy?" stuff, certainly in her mind if not the page. (I'd expect a husband to be able to pick up on motive for asking as well).
posted by fightorflight at 9:37 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
tybeet: I don't think it's inherently wrong, or I wouldn't be here.
It occurs to me that the element of *public* flirtation is significant. Presumably husband and wife share parts of their respective social circles, and most likely some members of the marital circle are also privy to acts of online flirtation on Facebook if the flirtation has happened in wall posts and photo comments and tags. (Like I said, we can make up any details we like to flesh out our theories given the opacity of the offense described by the OP. )
Anyway, for the OP, it's a sort of penny-ante cuckoldry to flirt with other men in front of people your husband knows, in public, for the record. It might up the ante even for the smallest of flirtatious gestures, depending on how secure he is about the rest of your relationship. We don't know if your husband has a FB account, but I can't even imagine a married couple who would not expect to be "friends" on FB if they both have accounts, to share overlapped social networks openly and without secrecy, and who would not declare their marital status in their profiles if they declare status at all. So if he does have a FB account, you should immediately give him complete access to all your shit, and if you don't announce your status online, consider doing so and telling the world of your friends (and their cute friends) that you're happily married to him. In fact, if he doesn't have an account, maybe you should help him set one up.
Or you could get off FB entirely. For an increasing number of intelligent people with rich lives I know, that's becoming rather trendy.
posted by fourcheesemac at 9:39 AM on August 3, 2009
It occurs to me that the element of *public* flirtation is significant. Presumably husband and wife share parts of their respective social circles, and most likely some members of the marital circle are also privy to acts of online flirtation on Facebook if the flirtation has happened in wall posts and photo comments and tags. (Like I said, we can make up any details we like to flesh out our theories given the opacity of the offense described by the OP. )
Anyway, for the OP, it's a sort of penny-ante cuckoldry to flirt with other men in front of people your husband knows, in public, for the record. It might up the ante even for the smallest of flirtatious gestures, depending on how secure he is about the rest of your relationship. We don't know if your husband has a FB account, but I can't even imagine a married couple who would not expect to be "friends" on FB if they both have accounts, to share overlapped social networks openly and without secrecy, and who would not declare their marital status in their profiles if they declare status at all. So if he does have a FB account, you should immediately give him complete access to all your shit, and if you don't announce your status online, consider doing so and telling the world of your friends (and their cute friends) that you're happily married to him. In fact, if he doesn't have an account, maybe you should help him set one up.
Or you could get off FB entirely. For an increasing number of intelligent people with rich lives I know, that's becoming rather trendy.
posted by fourcheesemac at 9:39 AM on August 3, 2009
These sort of human relations questions are always difficult to answer definitively, because lacking the mind reading ability to know what is going through your husband's mind exactly, one if left projecting his or her own feelings into their answers, which may or may not have any bearing on your actual situation.
That said, I'm trying to put myself in your husband's shoes and think about how I would react in such a situation. While it is true that nobody is immune from crushes, even those of us who are happily married, I can see why your husband feels this particular situation crossed a line. In my marriage, my wife isn't shy about letting me know about her celebrity crushes, for example. She still complains to this day about the Angels trading away their "cute" 1st baseman last season. I'm not bothered by this because I know from a tangible perspective the chances are extremely slim of her ever coming into real-life contact with this person and pursing things further (which is the same category I would put your husband noticing cute joggers in). It's just harmless fun.
Your situation is different because the person you're crushing on is someone (whether you intend to or not) who you could realistically try to pursue in a real life situation if you wanted to. I'm sure if I found my wife sending out emails that were intentionally being hidden from me where she was asking leading questions to a friend of hers about a guy she found attractive I would be upset as well. Unfair as it may be, you have to be responsible, at least in some way, with how other people interpret your behavior. I don't doubt that in your head this really is just innocent, harmless fun that you don't intent to take beyond the keyboard. But it's not as if your husband is being unreasonable in being suspicious as to why his wife is actively trying to gather information about a man she is attracted to. Because someone who *was* trying to take things further with a crush would likely be behaving in the exact same way.
posted by The Gooch at 9:45 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
That said, I'm trying to put myself in your husband's shoes and think about how I would react in such a situation. While it is true that nobody is immune from crushes, even those of us who are happily married, I can see why your husband feels this particular situation crossed a line. In my marriage, my wife isn't shy about letting me know about her celebrity crushes, for example. She still complains to this day about the Angels trading away their "cute" 1st baseman last season. I'm not bothered by this because I know from a tangible perspective the chances are extremely slim of her ever coming into real-life contact with this person and pursing things further (which is the same category I would put your husband noticing cute joggers in). It's just harmless fun.
Your situation is different because the person you're crushing on is someone (whether you intend to or not) who you could realistically try to pursue in a real life situation if you wanted to. I'm sure if I found my wife sending out emails that were intentionally being hidden from me where she was asking leading questions to a friend of hers about a guy she found attractive I would be upset as well. Unfair as it may be, you have to be responsible, at least in some way, with how other people interpret your behavior. I don't doubt that in your head this really is just innocent, harmless fun that you don't intent to take beyond the keyboard. But it's not as if your husband is being unreasonable in being suspicious as to why his wife is actively trying to gather information about a man she is attracted to. Because someone who *was* trying to take things further with a crush would likely be behaving in the exact same way.
posted by The Gooch at 9:45 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'd tweak the jogger comparison a little, OP: I think your crushing on a stranger on facebook is like your husband watching the same attractive jogger pass by every morning. It may still be harmless, depending on your feelings as a couple, but it's definitely more intentional than was originally implied.
I agree with mercredi's take on the whole thing. I don't understand all of the "Your relationship is doooooomed!" reactions. It sounds like there was a misunderstanding between the couple regarding what was and was not acceptable. Maybe your husband is thinking "Sure, I notice attractive joggers, but I don't fixate on one person in particular" while you're thinking, "Sure, I noticed this one guy on facebook, but it's not like I'm out there ogling every attractive man who walks by me." I don't think any of this makes either person a bad spouse, and I don't think the description is clear enough to be able to say whether the husband was actually snooping or just happened to find the browser left open. The place to go from here is not self-flagellation and confessions to an "emotional affair" but rather a sincere apology ("I'm sorry" not "I'm sorry, but...") for hurting your husband's feelings and an honest conversation about mutually agreed-upon standards.
posted by Meg_Murry at 9:48 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
I agree with mercredi's take on the whole thing. I don't understand all of the "Your relationship is doooooomed!" reactions. It sounds like there was a misunderstanding between the couple regarding what was and was not acceptable. Maybe your husband is thinking "Sure, I notice attractive joggers, but I don't fixate on one person in particular" while you're thinking, "Sure, I noticed this one guy on facebook, but it's not like I'm out there ogling every attractive man who walks by me." I don't think any of this makes either person a bad spouse, and I don't think the description is clear enough to be able to say whether the husband was actually snooping or just happened to find the browser left open. The place to go from here is not self-flagellation and confessions to an "emotional affair" but rather a sincere apology ("I'm sorry" not "I'm sorry, but...") for hurting your husband's feelings and an honest conversation about mutually agreed-upon standards.
posted by Meg_Murry at 9:48 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
There are three distinct issues here, and it's vital that you deal with them separately and, I think, in this order:
1. Your husband feels you emotionally cheated on him and lied to him.
2. You feel the need or urge to flirt online or, if "flirt" is the wrong word, to use the Internet for sexual/romantic fantasies that don't involve your husband.
3. Your husband snooped into your private business.
These are really distinct issues, but when couples discuss/argue, things tend to get all lumped in together, and nothing gets solved.
I'll give my thoughts on each issue separately:
1. Your husband feels that you lied to him. You may feel that you didn't lie, or that the lie was harmless, and that's fine. I'm not judging either way. In a marriage, feelings are much more important than who is right.
Via your husband's view, you lied by omission. Perhaps you feel that it's natural for spouses to keep certain things private; perhaps your husband feels otherwise. Well, you now have a chance to discuss your differing views, and possibly come to a new understanding.
Most people have some insecurities when it comes to romance and trust. If I were your husband, I would be worried chiefly about two things: that you're lying about other things and that you're open to the idea of leaving him for another man.
If you want your marriage to last, you need to reassure him -- or at least be honest with him -- about these two issues. This may be hard, because you might be angry or upset about some stuff, but I think you need to put that aside until later and first deal with your husband's feelings. He's not more important than you, but right now his feelings are dangerous to your marriage.
If you feel you can HONESTLY say to him, "I'm sorry I lied and I won't ever do it again," then do this. But note that if you get caught in another lie after saying that, things will get REALLY bad.
Maybe you can say something like, "I'm sorry I lied. I'll try really hard to share things with you in the future."
It would also help if you told him where he and the marriage stands as far as you're concerned, e.g. "I love you, and I wouldn't ever want to jeopardize our marriage."
Note that it's VERY hard to trust someone again after you feel they've violated your trust. Your husband will likely not be able to immediately accept your apology. Even if he does, his acceptance may be "just words" (even if he believes he's sincere when he says them). For the next few months, he may need extra love and attention in order for him to once again feel like he's the most important man in your life.
2) Do you think you can live without ever flirting (or whatever you want to call it) online again? If not, then address this with your husband. It may be uncomfortable, but if you don't talk about it now, it will bite you later. And openly discussing it will likely get you big points for being honest. While you're talking about it, try to keep both your needs and your husbands feelings in mind. The goal is to, as much as is possible, satisfy both.
Possibly, you can tell your husband that you love him and find him sexy, but that you miss the thrill of innocent flirting. Tell him that you value your marriage highly and would never take the flirting far enough to jeopardize it, but that you can't honestly imagine living without ever flirting again. Ask him how that makes him feel and if there are any situations under which he'd find harmless flirting acceptable.
Would it be okay with you (and him) for you to flirt if he could read the exchanges?
Would it be okay with him (and you) if he has license to do the same, too?
It's possible for some couples to get to the the stage where they can openly discuss and laugh about this stuff together. For some, it can even become exciting.
You and your husband will have to navigate through what it means to the two of you. As with most things in marriage, it will probably involve compromise on both your parts.
3) Assuming you have some hurt and angry feelings about him snooping, you need to share them with your husband. Don't do this on the same day(s) you discuss the above stuff. This should be discussed at a different time, when the two of you are okay with each other re the flirting, etc.
Think about this: if you suspected your husband was cheating on you and you knew there might be evidence of it in his private stuff, would you be tempted to look through it? Do you think there's any chance you might give into that temptation?
I'm NOT excusing what your husband did. It was wrong. Again, though, right and wrong is not what's important here.
Your husband needs to understand that you feel violated.
You need to understand how hard it is not to give into temptation in your husband's shoes. If I was him, I would be losing a lot of sleep, wondering if you were being unfaithful. My hope would be, that if I snooped, I would find out that you were just discussing current events or something. Then I'd be able to sleep again.
You two need to discuss how you're going to deal with this stuff in the future. How can he feel secure while, at the same time, respecting your privacy?
I totally disagree with the poster that says you're headed for divorce. Nobody -- not even you -- knows where you're heading. Different couples deal with this stuff in different ways. My guess that you'll either come out of this torn apart or much stronger and closer as a couple. The ball is in your (and your husband's) court.
PS. Consider marriage counseling. A good counselor will (a) help you discuss these issues separately and (b) keep you focused on feelings.
posted by grumblebee at 9:49 AM on August 3, 2009 [6 favorites]
1. Your husband feels you emotionally cheated on him and lied to him.
2. You feel the need or urge to flirt online or, if "flirt" is the wrong word, to use the Internet for sexual/romantic fantasies that don't involve your husband.
3. Your husband snooped into your private business.
These are really distinct issues, but when couples discuss/argue, things tend to get all lumped in together, and nothing gets solved.
I'll give my thoughts on each issue separately:
1. Your husband feels that you lied to him. You may feel that you didn't lie, or that the lie was harmless, and that's fine. I'm not judging either way. In a marriage, feelings are much more important than who is right.
Via your husband's view, you lied by omission. Perhaps you feel that it's natural for spouses to keep certain things private; perhaps your husband feels otherwise. Well, you now have a chance to discuss your differing views, and possibly come to a new understanding.
Most people have some insecurities when it comes to romance and trust. If I were your husband, I would be worried chiefly about two things: that you're lying about other things and that you're open to the idea of leaving him for another man.
If you want your marriage to last, you need to reassure him -- or at least be honest with him -- about these two issues. This may be hard, because you might be angry or upset about some stuff, but I think you need to put that aside until later and first deal with your husband's feelings. He's not more important than you, but right now his feelings are dangerous to your marriage.
If you feel you can HONESTLY say to him, "I'm sorry I lied and I won't ever do it again," then do this. But note that if you get caught in another lie after saying that, things will get REALLY bad.
Maybe you can say something like, "I'm sorry I lied. I'll try really hard to share things with you in the future."
It would also help if you told him where he and the marriage stands as far as you're concerned, e.g. "I love you, and I wouldn't ever want to jeopardize our marriage."
Note that it's VERY hard to trust someone again after you feel they've violated your trust. Your husband will likely not be able to immediately accept your apology. Even if he does, his acceptance may be "just words" (even if he believes he's sincere when he says them). For the next few months, he may need extra love and attention in order for him to once again feel like he's the most important man in your life.
2) Do you think you can live without ever flirting (or whatever you want to call it) online again? If not, then address this with your husband. It may be uncomfortable, but if you don't talk about it now, it will bite you later. And openly discussing it will likely get you big points for being honest. While you're talking about it, try to keep both your needs and your husbands feelings in mind. The goal is to, as much as is possible, satisfy both.
Possibly, you can tell your husband that you love him and find him sexy, but that you miss the thrill of innocent flirting. Tell him that you value your marriage highly and would never take the flirting far enough to jeopardize it, but that you can't honestly imagine living without ever flirting again. Ask him how that makes him feel and if there are any situations under which he'd find harmless flirting acceptable.
Would it be okay with you (and him) for you to flirt if he could read the exchanges?
Would it be okay with him (and you) if he has license to do the same, too?
It's possible for some couples to get to the the stage where they can openly discuss and laugh about this stuff together. For some, it can even become exciting.
You and your husband will have to navigate through what it means to the two of you. As with most things in marriage, it will probably involve compromise on both your parts.
3) Assuming you have some hurt and angry feelings about him snooping, you need to share them with your husband. Don't do this on the same day(s) you discuss the above stuff. This should be discussed at a different time, when the two of you are okay with each other re the flirting, etc.
Think about this: if you suspected your husband was cheating on you and you knew there might be evidence of it in his private stuff, would you be tempted to look through it? Do you think there's any chance you might give into that temptation?
I'm NOT excusing what your husband did. It was wrong. Again, though, right and wrong is not what's important here.
Your husband needs to understand that you feel violated.
You need to understand how hard it is not to give into temptation in your husband's shoes. If I was him, I would be losing a lot of sleep, wondering if you were being unfaithful. My hope would be, that if I snooped, I would find out that you were just discussing current events or something. Then I'd be able to sleep again.
You two need to discuss how you're going to deal with this stuff in the future. How can he feel secure while, at the same time, respecting your privacy?
I totally disagree with the poster that says you're headed for divorce. Nobody -- not even you -- knows where you're heading. Different couples deal with this stuff in different ways. My guess that you'll either come out of this torn apart or much stronger and closer as a couple. The ball is in your (and your husband's) court.
PS. Consider marriage counseling. A good counselor will (a) help you discuss these issues separately and (b) keep you focused on feelings.
posted by grumblebee at 9:49 AM on August 3, 2009 [6 favorites]
The only time I've ever been bothered by people snooping is when I was deeply ashamed of something and want to hide it. (The first time I was confronted about my drinking, for example, when my parents found some drunken scrawlings on my computer about how concerned I was by the amount I was drinking.) Were it not for our limitless capacity to create prisons for ourselves, none of this would be a problem. Were we not engaging in behaviors that ashamed or scared us, we would not care who checked out our Facebook accounts. Employers, friends, partners, strangers want to see what I've got on Facebook? Knock yourself out! It's some friggin' Edna St. Vincent Millay and a handful of snark, with a healthy dose of lolcats and links to Economist articles. The only reason I'd be bothered to have someone poking around my Facebook account is that THEY might put something inappropriate in there.
I've said it before here, and I'll say it again: We're all only as sick as our secrets. So quit keeping secrets, and you'll stop being sick. The problem isn't someone else snooping. The problems are the behaviors that you are engaged in that fundamentally bother you and that you aren't confronting head on. (A clarification for those who might want to troll-pick that apart: That doesn't mean everyone has to know everything about you. Serious secrets, like sexual abuse, are things that DO need to be worked out in private in an appropriate setting. But that isn't the sort of stuff you should be working out on Facebook in the first place. Develop a sense of comfort with yourself, and this stuff isn't a problem anymore. That's all I'm saying.)
If your life is so full of secret little rooms that you're constantly paranoid that someone might peek into the next room, you're doing it (life) wrong. And you know it, cause it sucks and you find yourself on AskMetafilter trying to figure out how to put things back together when someone managed to make their way into the wrong compartment.
posted by greekphilosophy at 10:00 AM on August 3, 2009 [12 favorites]
I've said it before here, and I'll say it again: We're all only as sick as our secrets. So quit keeping secrets, and you'll stop being sick. The problem isn't someone else snooping. The problems are the behaviors that you are engaged in that fundamentally bother you and that you aren't confronting head on. (A clarification for those who might want to troll-pick that apart: That doesn't mean everyone has to know everything about you. Serious secrets, like sexual abuse, are things that DO need to be worked out in private in an appropriate setting. But that isn't the sort of stuff you should be working out on Facebook in the first place. Develop a sense of comfort with yourself, and this stuff isn't a problem anymore. That's all I'm saying.)
If your life is so full of secret little rooms that you're constantly paranoid that someone might peek into the next room, you're doing it (life) wrong. And you know it, cause it sucks and you find yourself on AskMetafilter trying to figure out how to put things back together when someone managed to make their way into the wrong compartment.
posted by greekphilosophy at 10:00 AM on August 3, 2009 [12 favorites]
Two things immediately came to my mind: many people can be aroused by visuals (such as a woman jogging) but others need more narrative or personal details to find someone sexually stimulating. My husband, for example will point out women he finds sexy and I'll be all meh, yet I have awesome fantasies on some people (leers) when I don't even know what they look like. So I think the OP's comparison can be valid, especially as there was no communication between her and the crush and her questions were not explicit about hooking up with the crush.
The other thing that came to my mind was the one time I was cheated on, my partner was weirdly jealous and in retrospect filtered their view of my behaviour under the assumption I was as much as a dog as them. It was very confusing to me to have innocent behaviour (like being five minutes late from school) viewed with suspicion because THEY knew why they had been late before.
Other than that, I'm with the crowd that expects spouses to have each other's passwords. I would never say/do/write anything where I wouldn't feel comfortable with him right beside me witnessing everything. (Hi Hunny! Love you!)
posted by saucysault at 10:01 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
The other thing that came to my mind was the one time I was cheated on, my partner was weirdly jealous and in retrospect filtered their view of my behaviour under the assumption I was as much as a dog as them. It was very confusing to me to have innocent behaviour (like being five minutes late from school) viewed with suspicion because THEY knew why they had been late before.
Other than that, I'm with the crowd that expects spouses to have each other's passwords. I would never say/do/write anything where I wouldn't feel comfortable with him right beside me witnessing everything. (Hi Hunny! Love you!)
posted by saucysault at 10:01 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Start with an apology and reassurance. Then let him know that you felt violated by the snooping.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:10 AM on August 3, 2009
posted by Ironmouth at 10:10 AM on August 3, 2009
When my SO brings over his laptop and I need to use it for something, I tend to save my passwords - for facebook, email, forums, what have you. Because as others have mentioned, I don't think I have anything to hide from my lover. (And it's quite handy.) I understand that other people may need to separate their lives a bit more, but I think immediately changing your FB password sends the wrong message. This isn't a stranger hacking into your account, it's a man you're married to. You're effectively cutting him off and insinuating that there are interactions you would not want your husband to find. fourcheesemac's suggestion was great, and I second it - get your husband up on FB as well if he isn't, and don't block anything from him. (Even if he uses it to do nothing but follow your posts for a while, it will give him peace of mind and the knowledge that you're not trying to keep anything secret.)
posted by Tequila Mockingbird at 10:14 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Tequila Mockingbird at 10:14 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
This may be as simple as having to do with the content of what you said to your friend about crush-guy. Was it overtly sexual? Was it complimentary of a physical trait? (nice abs, arms, etc..) or was it more ethereal? ("he's so dreamy looking..")
Now, how do you treat your husband in relation to the same exact topics? Do you compliment his looks? Do you talk to him in sexual terms? do you, at least on occasion, treat him like the man of your dreams?
If you're husband is getting sloppy seconds in this department, it's understandable why he's pissed.
posted by teg4rvn at 10:26 AM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
Now, how do you treat your husband in relation to the same exact topics? Do you compliment his looks? Do you talk to him in sexual terms? do you, at least on occasion, treat him like the man of your dreams?
If you're husband is getting sloppy seconds in this department, it's understandable why he's pissed.
posted by teg4rvn at 10:26 AM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
The thing that concerns me most is that you immediately changed your Facebook password. That's something you would do if you thought your bank account had been hacked into, not if your husband saw some innocent messages on a social network. It screams "I DON'T TRUST YOU AND YOU CAN'T TRUST ME." This cannot bode well. The first thing I'd do, if I were you, is open up the account and show him that you have nothing to hide. Purposely leave it open on your computer. Do the same with your email. Clamming up just fuels his suspicions.
I had a massively stupid incident whereby I looked at my husband's Internet history. He was (justifiably) upset, and I promised never to do it again. He's an IT security expert by trade, so he could have put everything on such a lockdown that I'd never be able to access our network again. Instead, he leaves everything wide open, which is in itself a sign that he is trustworthy and I have nothing to worry about.
posted by desjardins at 10:30 AM on August 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
I had a massively stupid incident whereby I looked at my husband's Internet history. He was (justifiably) upset, and I promised never to do it again. He's an IT security expert by trade, so he could have put everything on such a lockdown that I'd never be able to access our network again. Instead, he leaves everything wide open, which is in itself a sign that he is trustworthy and I have nothing to worry about.
posted by desjardins at 10:30 AM on August 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
Tequila Mockingbird: get your husband up on FB as well if he isn't, and don't block anything from him. (Even if he uses it to do nothing but follow your posts for a while, it will give him peace of mind and the knowledge that you're not trying to keep anything secret.)
While this is a good suggestion, I have to disagree. You (OP) have broken the trust in your relationship, and to restore that trust to your husband you'll have to do it on his terms, not yours. Changing your password will only make the problem worse by appearing more suspicious. The best way to rebuild his trust in you is to stop the behavior and then to let him know that he can check your account whenever he wants.
Personal anecdote: I was in a not-so-great relationship for ~18 months with a girl. Towards the later parts of it, she began acting suspiciously with her phone, her emails, and Facebook account. I hadn't been snooping before, but it's a noticeable behavior change when we're just lying next to each other and she tries to hide her phone's screen from me when texting. After I confronted her about it, she got defensive, told me nothing was wrong and began hiding things more carefully since she knew I was aware. That behavior provoked me to try looking around--when I noticed she had changed her account passwords (I knew them offhand, not from snooping but b/c she'd told me randomly). Nearly two months later I found out she'd been maintaining an online relationship the whole time with a childhood friend that she'd reconnected with on Facebook and had spent a week with while "visiting family."
posted by jgunsch at 10:36 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
While this is a good suggestion, I have to disagree. You (OP) have broken the trust in your relationship, and to restore that trust to your husband you'll have to do it on his terms, not yours. Changing your password will only make the problem worse by appearing more suspicious. The best way to rebuild his trust in you is to stop the behavior and then to let him know that he can check your account whenever he wants.
Personal anecdote: I was in a not-so-great relationship for ~18 months with a girl. Towards the later parts of it, she began acting suspiciously with her phone, her emails, and Facebook account. I hadn't been snooping before, but it's a noticeable behavior change when we're just lying next to each other and she tries to hide her phone's screen from me when texting. After I confronted her about it, she got defensive, told me nothing was wrong and began hiding things more carefully since she knew I was aware. That behavior provoked me to try looking around--when I noticed she had changed her account passwords (I knew them offhand, not from snooping but b/c she'd told me randomly). Nearly two months later I found out she'd been maintaining an online relationship the whole time with a childhood friend that she'd reconnected with on Facebook and had spent a week with while "visiting family."
posted by jgunsch at 10:36 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
One more for counseling. If you want to work on things, get help hashing them out. Good luck.
posted by ShadePlant at 10:37 AM on August 3, 2009
posted by ShadePlant at 10:37 AM on August 3, 2009
Aaaand desjardins beats me to it. :) Teaches me for taking ten minutes to write a reply.
posted by jgunsch at 10:37 AM on August 3, 2009
posted by jgunsch at 10:37 AM on August 3, 2009
I have an online crush on a friend of a friend. I have never met this person, and don't expect I ever will. I just thought it was harmless fun to see some random pics on my friends FB page, and ask a few questions about him. I haven't even chatted with this person online. So in my opinion, this whole thing shouldn't even be an issue. In my mind, it ranks up there with my husband staring at the the women joggers who wear sports bras as he drives by them - no harm, no foul.
A better analogy would if your husband asked for pictures of a friend of a friend and then asked questions about said friend of a friend (I wonder what your exact questions were). This is more than just idle, "Hey there's a really hawt person," this is "Hey, there's a really hawt person and I want to remember them and know a little bit more about them". It's made worse because it is a friend of a friend, so 2 weeks or 2 years from now, you'll be able to track down the object of your affection and not only look at pictures or ask questions about them, but potentially meet the person. This isn't just a crush, this is a crush with interest and it's perfectly reasonable that he's alarmed.
Crushes in marriages are fine, but hiding said crushes and following them around is just asking for trouble. Don't cause trouble in your marriage, ya'll will have enough to deal with from life itself.
on preview:
What desjardins said about changing your password. My wife and I have separate computers, but i have a separate account on her laptop, 'cause I like my history and bookmarks just so, yet we know each others passwords, because there's trust and neither particularly cares what the sees or does. It's also been helpful when one of has needed to the other to get into our separate accounts in important or emergency situations.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:49 AM on August 3, 2009
A better analogy would if your husband asked for pictures of a friend of a friend and then asked questions about said friend of a friend (I wonder what your exact questions were). This is more than just idle, "Hey there's a really hawt person," this is "Hey, there's a really hawt person and I want to remember them and know a little bit more about them". It's made worse because it is a friend of a friend, so 2 weeks or 2 years from now, you'll be able to track down the object of your affection and not only look at pictures or ask questions about them, but potentially meet the person. This isn't just a crush, this is a crush with interest and it's perfectly reasonable that he's alarmed.
Crushes in marriages are fine, but hiding said crushes and following them around is just asking for trouble. Don't cause trouble in your marriage, ya'll will have enough to deal with from life itself.
on preview:
What desjardins said about changing your password. My wife and I have separate computers, but i have a separate account on her laptop, 'cause I like my history and bookmarks just so, yet we know each others passwords, because there's trust and neither particularly cares what the sees or does. It's also been helpful when one of has needed to the other to get into our separate accounts in important or emergency situations.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:49 AM on August 3, 2009
Also, I think you need to separate the actual behavior from his reaction. What you did was not necessarily right nor wrong in and of itself; but it upsets your husband and disrupts your marriage. Whether he is "valid" in feeling this way does not matter. Another person might react differently, might not blink an eye, but you are not married to that person.
posted by desjardins at 11:15 AM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by desjardins at 11:15 AM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
The snooping is a huge problem and I would definitely address that. In fact I would be livid if I caught my husband snooping through my emails or Facebook posts or whatever. It's not that I have anything to hide, but the lack of trust would bother me a lot.
Then again, I actively avoid having crushes on people I know, because that road leads to Drama Town for everyone involved. And I can honestly say that there is no communication anywhere online, or between my friends and me, that I wouldn't be totally comfortable with my husband reading. Can you say the same? If not, you should ask yourself why. Perhaps your behavior isn't nearly as innocent as you want to believe.
posted by balls at 11:46 AM on August 3, 2009
Then again, I actively avoid having crushes on people I know, because that road leads to Drama Town for everyone involved. And I can honestly say that there is no communication anywhere online, or between my friends and me, that I wouldn't be totally comfortable with my husband reading. Can you say the same? If not, you should ask yourself why. Perhaps your behavior isn't nearly as innocent as you want to believe.
posted by balls at 11:46 AM on August 3, 2009
And I wanted to add that even your title, "Stupid Facebook" suggests that you aren't taking responsibility for your behavior, but instead want to blame it on an inanimate website, or your husband's nosiness, or something else that's out of your control. Not cool.
What he did was wrong, but what you did wasn't okay either, from the sounds of it.
posted by balls at 11:48 AM on August 3, 2009 [5 favorites]
What he did was wrong, but what you did wasn't okay either, from the sounds of it.
posted by balls at 11:48 AM on August 3, 2009 [5 favorites]
I completely understand why you changed your password. I would be furious if a partner snooped and looked at my private email, the innards of my Facebook account, etc. Doing so, however, doesn't exactly help rebuild trust between the two of you. If you're looking to diffuse the situation, then this does the opposite of that.
If I'm understanding what happened correctly, you saw a pic of this guy your friend knows, asked your friend some questions about him, looked at more pictures of him, and made some comments about how hot you thought he was. There has been and never will be any contact between you and this guy, right? If so, basically, what you did amounts to a thought crime, and I'm inclined to say your husband is overreacting. However, there is something else afoot here. Why was he snooping in the first place? Did either of you ever cheat? Does he have reason to suspect that you were up to no good?
I'm also wondering if his anger stems more from feeling publicly humiliated than what you actually did. Is this a mutual friend you were talking to? He may be embarrassed that you were expressing interest in someone else, implying he is not doing it for you these days. If you have private fantasies and thoughts about someone that's not your husband, and don't share them with anyone, then while a spouse would probably not be thrilled, it doesn't change public perception of each of you as individuals and of your marriage.
You asked how to diffuse the situation. An open and honest conversation about how you both feel your trust was violated is important, but understanding where he is coming from is even more important. So ask him, and then listen. Don't talk, interrupt, deflect, defend yourself, or make excuses, just hear him out and give yourself some time to reflect on what he says. The next day or so, respond with thoughtfulness and demonstrate you care most about him and your marriage. The other thing is that he's probably feeling pretty insecure right now. I would suggest being a little more attentive and complimentary than usual, and maybe if you planned some special things together that allow you to connect (not just physically, but emotionally) and enjoy each other, that might go a long way to making him feel better. Good luck!
posted by katemcd at 12:43 PM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
If I'm understanding what happened correctly, you saw a pic of this guy your friend knows, asked your friend some questions about him, looked at more pictures of him, and made some comments about how hot you thought he was. There has been and never will be any contact between you and this guy, right? If so, basically, what you did amounts to a thought crime, and I'm inclined to say your husband is overreacting. However, there is something else afoot here. Why was he snooping in the first place? Did either of you ever cheat? Does he have reason to suspect that you were up to no good?
I'm also wondering if his anger stems more from feeling publicly humiliated than what you actually did. Is this a mutual friend you were talking to? He may be embarrassed that you were expressing interest in someone else, implying he is not doing it for you these days. If you have private fantasies and thoughts about someone that's not your husband, and don't share them with anyone, then while a spouse would probably not be thrilled, it doesn't change public perception of each of you as individuals and of your marriage.
You asked how to diffuse the situation. An open and honest conversation about how you both feel your trust was violated is important, but understanding where he is coming from is even more important. So ask him, and then listen. Don't talk, interrupt, deflect, defend yourself, or make excuses, just hear him out and give yourself some time to reflect on what he says. The next day or so, respond with thoughtfulness and demonstrate you care most about him and your marriage. The other thing is that he's probably feeling pretty insecure right now. I would suggest being a little more attentive and complimentary than usual, and maybe if you planned some special things together that allow you to connect (not just physically, but emotionally) and enjoy each other, that might go a long way to making him feel better. Good luck!
posted by katemcd at 12:43 PM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
There's not really enough information here. What, exactly, did your husband see? "Hey, that guy was cute, what's his name?" is one thing, "Hey, that guy is hot! When's the next time he'll be around?" is another, and "Is that guy single? What's is phone number?" is another thing too.
Your "hot jogger" analogy may not be apt depending on what, exactly, you wrote.
It's normal and natural to have a crush even while you're within a relationship. But depending on what your husband read, he might not think of it as "just" a crush.
How did your husband "snoop"? Did he guess your password? Or did your browser automatically log him in to your account?
Since you're anon, we might not get to hear those answers. But you should ask those questions to yourself honestly.
posted by spaltavian at 1:13 PM on August 3, 2009
Your "hot jogger" analogy may not be apt depending on what, exactly, you wrote.
It's normal and natural to have a crush even while you're within a relationship. But depending on what your husband read, he might not think of it as "just" a crush.
How did your husband "snoop"? Did he guess your password? Or did your browser automatically log him in to your account?
Since you're anon, we might not get to hear those answers. But you should ask those questions to yourself honestly.
posted by spaltavian at 1:13 PM on August 3, 2009
I wanted to add: this is probably a bit humiliating to your husband, to watch you talking to another friend about some other guy and yet another reason for you to take a step back and look at the big picture here. If your one friend knows, other people do as well, and that's embarrassing.
This is pretty much the only thing I wanted to add. All of the wife's friends have been watching all of this e-cuckolding going on. That will make for great fun at the Christmas party.
posted by rhizome at 1:14 PM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
This is pretty much the only thing I wanted to add. All of the wife's friends have been watching all of this e-cuckolding going on. That will make for great fun at the Christmas party.
posted by rhizome at 1:14 PM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
I know a couple in which one of the partners routinely has crushes on women for one reason or another. This never has become e a problem during their 10 year relationship for a couple of reasons: 1) there is complete trust between both partners because the crushes are never kept secret, and 2) the crushes are never acted upon.
The situation you present is different in that you purposely kept your activities secret. I notice you equate your secret activity with his openly oggling women, but you see- you KNEW he oggled them, and you obviously believed that to be harmless. Keeping your activity secret was unfair to him and is a severe violation of trust.
How do you diffuse the situation? I don't know if you can with words alone, but apologizing for hurting him is step one. Whether or not one develops a crush on someone may or may not be helped, but your behavior in response to that crush is totally your responsibility, and you have to own up to the negative effect that behavior had on your partner.
When you discuss this, I would keep your behavior separate from his "snooping" behavior- address his snooping afterwards, as a part of a discussion about mutual love, trust and respect.
posted by Piscean at 1:26 PM on August 3, 2009
The situation you present is different in that you purposely kept your activities secret. I notice you equate your secret activity with his openly oggling women, but you see- you KNEW he oggled them, and you obviously believed that to be harmless. Keeping your activity secret was unfair to him and is a severe violation of trust.
How do you diffuse the situation? I don't know if you can with words alone, but apologizing for hurting him is step one. Whether or not one develops a crush on someone may or may not be helped, but your behavior in response to that crush is totally your responsibility, and you have to own up to the negative effect that behavior had on your partner.
When you discuss this, I would keep your behavior separate from his "snooping" behavior- address his snooping afterwards, as a part of a discussion about mutual love, trust and respect.
posted by Piscean at 1:26 PM on August 3, 2009
I have to say, I think an awful log of the comments upstream are rather harsh towards the OP, and extrapolate far beyond the data presented. Just taking the vehemence of the differing opinions, I think that the perspectives are so far apart that a mediator may be required (would at least be helpful), so for once suggest:
Marriage Counseling, Marriage Counseling, Marriage Counseling.
I, myself, find the husband’s response far more alarming than the OP’s facebook activities; it sounds to me like her queries fall under a sub-category of “girl-talk” (here I’m assuming her friend is female; if her friend were male, I suppose that might put a somewhat different slant on it). Btw, the same sub-category exists in “boy/guy-talk” – as near as I can tell, the main difference is stylistic.
Hmm.. On preview, what emilyw said. ‘Wish I’d written that..
posted by Tuesday After Lunch at 2:59 PM on August 3, 2009
Marriage Counseling, Marriage Counseling, Marriage Counseling.
I, myself, find the husband’s response far more alarming than the OP’s facebook activities; it sounds to me like her queries fall under a sub-category of “girl-talk” (here I’m assuming her friend is female; if her friend were male, I suppose that might put a somewhat different slant on it). Btw, the same sub-category exists in “boy/guy-talk” – as near as I can tell, the main difference is stylistic.
Hmm.. On preview, what emilyw said. ‘Wish I’d written that..
posted by Tuesday After Lunch at 2:59 PM on August 3, 2009
The thing that strikes me about the OP's situation is that she claims to have a crush on someone. Then she describes the behaviors she engaged in to act upon that crush while keeping them secret from the one person in her life who might find them threatening and hurtful.
I can't blame respondents if they are overwhelmingly not on the side of the OP here. I still say she should take responsibility for her violation of his trust, first and foremost, and then move on to discuss the deeper relationship issues more thoroughly. Marriage counseling could indeed be helpful.
posted by Piscean at 4:00 PM on August 3, 2009
I can't blame respondents if they are overwhelmingly not on the side of the OP here. I still say she should take responsibility for her violation of his trust, first and foremost, and then move on to discuss the deeper relationship issues more thoroughly. Marriage counseling could indeed be helpful.
posted by Piscean at 4:00 PM on August 3, 2009
"... Then she describes the behaviors she engaged in to act upon that crush while keeping them secret..."
Ok, I'll bite: What behaviors did she engage in to act upon that crush?
'Cause I missed that, even after the nth re-reading.
I'm evidently giving a fairly charitable reading of the phrase "online crush" -- as I read it, it sounds like daydreaming -- my gosh, she hasn't even met the crushee, let alone actually met him, under any setting whatsoever. It sounds like she hasn't even seen the guy, so in some sense it's even more removed than if, say, one saw a charasmatic stage actor and daydreamed about them.
It seems that most respondents are dragging their own personal history & baggage into their interpretation; let's take the basic question: Why was the husband snooping? Wayward curiosity? Well then, just how free should each partner be to rummage through the other's stuff? Insecurity? Where would that come from? Ancient baggage unrelated to the OP? If the snooping is based on suspection, is that becase of oddities in the OP's behavior, or because the husband has himself strayed (if only by mentioning his attraction to someone other than the OP to some friend of his)?
'Point is, these speculations get thick and tangled quickly, and they're driven by strong emotions. The OP and her husband need to have a broad and deep conversation about boundaries, expectations, behavior, etc. -- stuff that becomes a minefield when each party assumes a tacit agreement that the other was unaware of. One of the major values of counselors is that they've seen these issues over & over, in many different guises, and can guide the discussion not only towards a resolution of current issues, but also explore related, but not immediately evident issues (for example, what other assumptions are the parties operating under?). {This time, I'll point to katemcd as a reasonable approximation of the range of discussion}
posted by Tuesday After Lunch at 8:40 PM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Ok, I'll bite: What behaviors did she engage in to act upon that crush?
'Cause I missed that, even after the nth re-reading.
I'm evidently giving a fairly charitable reading of the phrase "online crush" -- as I read it, it sounds like daydreaming -- my gosh, she hasn't even met the crushee, let alone actually met him, under any setting whatsoever. It sounds like she hasn't even seen the guy, so in some sense it's even more removed than if, say, one saw a charasmatic stage actor and daydreamed about them.
It seems that most respondents are dragging their own personal history & baggage into their interpretation; let's take the basic question: Why was the husband snooping? Wayward curiosity? Well then, just how free should each partner be to rummage through the other's stuff? Insecurity? Where would that come from? Ancient baggage unrelated to the OP? If the snooping is based on suspection, is that becase of oddities in the OP's behavior, or because the husband has himself strayed (if only by mentioning his attraction to someone other than the OP to some friend of his)?
'Point is, these speculations get thick and tangled quickly, and they're driven by strong emotions. The OP and her husband need to have a broad and deep conversation about boundaries, expectations, behavior, etc. -- stuff that becomes a minefield when each party assumes a tacit agreement that the other was unaware of. One of the major values of counselors is that they've seen these issues over & over, in many different guises, and can guide the discussion not only towards a resolution of current issues, but also explore related, but not immediately evident issues (for example, what other assumptions are the parties operating under?). {This time, I'll point to katemcd as a reasonable approximation of the range of discussion}
posted by Tuesday After Lunch at 8:40 PM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
it's a sort of penny-ante cuckoldry to flirt with other men in front of people your husband knows, in public, for the record
and in a place where he's lucky/unlucky he saw it. Now he has to wonder - how long has that been going on and who all knows?
Yeah, thoughtcrime. Still, is it cool that you have demonstrated the desire for another man and the willingness to hide that? When you reassure him with your words, ask yourself, "what words would I say if I WERE cheating, but didn't want him to find out?" The exact same ones? You're putting him in a really tough spot. Few men could be cool with even the remote possibility that he's the dupe in the "Scotty doesn't know" song.
So now, you've told him you haven't done anything to be suspicious about, and then hidden everything from him so he can't check. To make sure that Scotty doesn't know? I honestly don't know how you're going to recover from this one, now that that seed is planted in his mind. Even if you let him look at your FB whenever he wants, he'll wonder if that's because you switched the juicy stuff to MySpace, or email, or plain old telephone, or something else he doesn't know about. It's going to be a while before he can walk by you having a phone conversation without eavesdropping to find out who you're talking to and what about. Not a fun way to live, for either of you.
Re: flirting in the first place - check this out: If you don't want to ever make the wrong decision not to drink and drive, you don't put yourself in a bar far from home by yourself with your keys in your pocket and then get shitfaced. If you don't intend to cheat on your husband, even in the "heat of the moment" or in a lapse of judgment where you "just make a mistake", you don't flirt with other men. It's not about relying on yourself to be good when the time comes, it's about avoiding the test as much as possible beforehand.
posted by ctmf at 9:13 PM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
and in a place where he's lucky/unlucky he saw it. Now he has to wonder - how long has that been going on and who all knows?
Yeah, thoughtcrime. Still, is it cool that you have demonstrated the desire for another man and the willingness to hide that? When you reassure him with your words, ask yourself, "what words would I say if I WERE cheating, but didn't want him to find out?" The exact same ones? You're putting him in a really tough spot. Few men could be cool with even the remote possibility that he's the dupe in the "Scotty doesn't know" song.
So now, you've told him you haven't done anything to be suspicious about, and then hidden everything from him so he can't check. To make sure that Scotty doesn't know? I honestly don't know how you're going to recover from this one, now that that seed is planted in his mind. Even if you let him look at your FB whenever he wants, he'll wonder if that's because you switched the juicy stuff to MySpace, or email, or plain old telephone, or something else he doesn't know about. It's going to be a while before he can walk by you having a phone conversation without eavesdropping to find out who you're talking to and what about. Not a fun way to live, for either of you.
Re: flirting in the first place - check this out: If you don't want to ever make the wrong decision not to drink and drive, you don't put yourself in a bar far from home by yourself with your keys in your pocket and then get shitfaced. If you don't intend to cheat on your husband, even in the "heat of the moment" or in a lapse of judgment where you "just make a mistake", you don't flirt with other men. It's not about relying on yourself to be good when the time comes, it's about avoiding the test as much as possible beforehand.
posted by ctmf at 9:13 PM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
I think the problem your husband might be having is that everyone was in on something that he was not. All of your friend's friends can see that you wrote "who's the hottie in the white shirt? Yowza!" (or whatever). Even hot gut in the white shirt can read it. But husband couldn't. Then when he does see it, you turn off automatic login. It doesn't scream behavior that's on the up-and-up, and as someone upthread mentioned, no matter if it's valid behavior or not, it really upsets him, so you shouldn't do it again.
Now, I wouldn't be so supportive of poor husband if he had legitimately snooped, but when you open a browser and you are automatically right smack in someone's email or facebook or whatever, that's not really "snooping". My husband sometimes leaves his gmail open, and that doesn't mean I have the right to read it, but if something caught my eye and I clicked on it, I'd hate to be tagged with snooping. It kind of seems like natural human curiosity. Though if you were in shouting distance it would have been better for him to call out, "hey, who's this dude on Facebook?"
posted by agentwills at 8:01 AM on August 4, 2009
Now, I wouldn't be so supportive of poor husband if he had legitimately snooped, but when you open a browser and you are automatically right smack in someone's email or facebook or whatever, that's not really "snooping". My husband sometimes leaves his gmail open, and that doesn't mean I have the right to read it, but if something caught my eye and I clicked on it, I'd hate to be tagged with snooping. It kind of seems like natural human curiosity. Though if you were in shouting distance it would have been better for him to call out, "hey, who's this dude on Facebook?"
posted by agentwills at 8:01 AM on August 4, 2009
All these comments about attempts, willingness etc. to "hide" her "flirtation" are bizarre. Since when is making comments on Facebook a way to "hide" something? If I talk on the phone to my friend when my husband isn't listening, am I "trying" to "hide" what we say, or am I just engaging in a conversation that doesn't include him? If I say "hey, those pics you put up on Facebook were cool. You're friend is cute," am I engaging in a flirtation or an emotional affair? If my husband turns out to be listening on another line and then accuses me of having something missing in my life does that make any sense at all? Does it let him off the hook for listening in on a conversation he wasn't invited to because there was something "bad" to hear?
We don't know what her comments were, of course, nor how strong his reaction was. But all this talk of cheating, inappropriate behaviour, need to cease and desist any and all non-professional communication with and about men seems way, way out of line with what can be gleaned from this comment. There's a whole huge possible continuum of interpretations here: from him being a bit insecure to him being an emotionally abusive, over-controlling jerk who's about to transition into something much worse; or from her having a conversation she barely thought twice about only to have it cause some weird argument to her being a shamelessly insensitive, passive aggressive jerk who ignores him to surf for eye candy and then leaves her browser open for him to find so she can start a fight. However, there's precious little to support any of these interpretations, and picking one and offering directives based on it seems way unhelpful.
The only good advice I can see in this thread are the few bits that suggest talking to him about it in a caring, non-confrontational way to try to figure out what (perhaps broader issues) made him upset and why he snooped in the first place.
posted by carmen at 8:25 AM on August 4, 2009
We don't know what her comments were, of course, nor how strong his reaction was. But all this talk of cheating, inappropriate behaviour, need to cease and desist any and all non-professional communication with and about men seems way, way out of line with what can be gleaned from this comment. There's a whole huge possible continuum of interpretations here: from him being a bit insecure to him being an emotionally abusive, over-controlling jerk who's about to transition into something much worse; or from her having a conversation she barely thought twice about only to have it cause some weird argument to her being a shamelessly insensitive, passive aggressive jerk who ignores him to surf for eye candy and then leaves her browser open for him to find so she can start a fight. However, there's precious little to support any of these interpretations, and picking one and offering directives based on it seems way unhelpful.
The only good advice I can see in this thread are the few bits that suggest talking to him about it in a caring, non-confrontational way to try to figure out what (perhaps broader issues) made him upset and why he snooped in the first place.
posted by carmen at 8:25 AM on August 4, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
In the end, you were doing an activity that you tried to hide from your husband. He snooped and found what he didn't like. And now you have changed your password to hide more activities, rather than being on the up and up and being more open with your husband.
Both of you seem to have done acts at this point that your partner sees as a violation. Open, and fully honest ,communication is needed between you to NOW. If you can't do that on your own, I highly suggest couples therapy.
posted by arniec at 7:51 AM on August 3, 2009 [4 favorites]