kids or no kids ??? HELP US DECIDE!!
March 11, 2008 8:34 PM Subscribe
my wife and i are both at the life junction that we have to decide if we want to have kids, ever or never, due to our age, also due to peer and family pressure.
the problem is that we both are not that enthusiastic about introducing someone addtional into the family or in between. recognizing the highly private nature of this issue, we still want to do a quick & unscientific poll to to see if it will help us move a bit closer to a decision:
1. for those couples who made a conscientious decision to stay kid-less: how long have you two decided on this issue? any regrets so far?
2. for those couples happily living with kid(s): if you can have the kids bearing and rearing experience all over again, will you do it again?
please, no rants or raves on how great or how nightmarish kids are. heard too much of that already.
thanks,
I have 2. Would do it again a million times over. And Over!
posted by pearlybob at 8:43 PM on March 11, 2008
posted by pearlybob at 8:43 PM on March 11, 2008
I have kids. It's hard, and you have to change your life more than you might anticipate, but I'd do it again without question.
posted by 5MeoCMP at 8:43 PM on March 11, 2008
posted by 5MeoCMP at 8:43 PM on March 11, 2008
Yes, I would do it again. I have two. I wish I could have more.
posted by LoriFLA at 8:43 PM on March 11, 2008
posted by LoriFLA at 8:43 PM on March 11, 2008
This is a common topic. Here's a recent thread and there are many others.
From my experience reading these threads, I think this question inherently tilts to the "No regrets" crowd. The others, the people with regret, are more likely to have sublimated their feelings. Not many people will come forth in public and say "I have kids and I wish I hadn't had them."
posted by vacapinta at 8:46 PM on March 11, 2008 [9 favorites]
From my experience reading these threads, I think this question inherently tilts to the "No regrets" crowd. The others, the people with regret, are more likely to have sublimated their feelings. Not many people will come forth in public and say "I have kids and I wish I hadn't had them."
posted by vacapinta at 8:46 PM on March 11, 2008 [9 favorites]
I have one. Would do it again. Trying.
posted by never used baby shoes at 8:47 PM on March 11, 2008
posted by never used baby shoes at 8:47 PM on March 11, 2008
Here's an older thread specifically asking for the stories of childless couples
posted by vacapinta at 8:50 PM on March 11, 2008
posted by vacapinta at 8:50 PM on March 11, 2008
We'll never accidentally or purposely get pregnant due to medical reasons, so if we wanted kids (i.e. to adopt) it would have to be a very deliberate decision. We've pretty much closed that door; neither of us feels a biological compulsion to raise a child, and the expense and paperwork of adoption counteracts what little enthusiasm we might have had. I feel that child-rearing should be left to people who really WANT to do it, and that kids are better off with parents who couldn't wait to have kids. I get little twinges from time to time when I see someone else's kid, and really strong twinges when I see my fiance with his nieces and nephews, but I can't really imagine having our own on an everyday basis. To help make up your mind, offer to babysit. I gladly spent the weekend with his one year old niece and 4 year old nephew, but I was just as glad to send them home.
posted by desjardins at 8:52 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by desjardins at 8:52 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
There are a great many threads on this topic in the archives. Here are just a few:
here
here
here
here
here
here
here
here
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:52 PM on March 11, 2008 [7 favorites]
here
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posted by LobsterMitten at 8:52 PM on March 11, 2008 [7 favorites]
Met a guy a couple of months back that made the decision with his wife not to have kids-- seems perfectly happy with it (now in his late 50's), bought himself a plane and goes on regular breaks away (monthly, usually flies himself though).
Kids are expensive :)
posted by Static Vagabond at 8:54 PM on March 11, 2008
Kids are expensive :)
posted by Static Vagabond at 8:54 PM on March 11, 2008
Background: My partner and I have been together eight years and some change. We have no intention of getting married, but intend to be lifelong partners, own a house together, etc.
We discussed within the first few months of our relationship, that neither of us particularly wanted children. We've discussed it more in depth over time and have settled pretty comfortably at a place where neither of us is completely anti-ever-having-kids, but we both agree that neither of us strongly wants them either, and there are a lot of reasons (bad genetic inheritance, lifestyle factors, etc.) that it's not such a good idea for us. Having children seems to me like one of those things that works out best if you really, really want to do it. Kids are great; just not great for us.
We've been settled at that decision point pretty comfortably for about seven years now and no regrets so far for either of us. I guess the door's still open for later discussion if one of us suddenly develops a biological clock, but I feel like I will have a very happy life without children and won't regret it later on. At least, no more than I regret any other of those "I wonder what would have happened if..." sort of life choices.
posted by Stacey at 8:56 PM on March 11, 2008
We discussed within the first few months of our relationship, that neither of us particularly wanted children. We've discussed it more in depth over time and have settled pretty comfortably at a place where neither of us is completely anti-ever-having-kids, but we both agree that neither of us strongly wants them either, and there are a lot of reasons (bad genetic inheritance, lifestyle factors, etc.) that it's not such a good idea for us. Having children seems to me like one of those things that works out best if you really, really want to do it. Kids are great; just not great for us.
We've been settled at that decision point pretty comfortably for about seven years now and no regrets so far for either of us. I guess the door's still open for later discussion if one of us suddenly develops a biological clock, but I feel like I will have a very happy life without children and won't regret it later on. At least, no more than I regret any other of those "I wonder what would have happened if..." sort of life choices.
posted by Stacey at 8:56 PM on March 11, 2008
Shouldn't you have also asked to hear from 3. people UNhappily living with kids? There are many parents who resent and regret their children. I would seek those stories out as well. It will require some effort, because there is such a strong social stigma against regretting your children that most people who feel that way won't admit it, but they do exist.
posted by Jacqueline at 9:06 PM on March 11, 2008
posted by Jacqueline at 9:06 PM on March 11, 2008
1. for those couples who made a conscientious decision to stay kid-less: how long have you two decided on this issue? any regrets so far?
Well, since we're here, 1. we've been together for about 8 years (married for 5), and no, no regrets so far. I'm one of those weird mutants who has simply just never felt it when it comes to having kids. I was really pretty worried about this when we had "the talk" about this issue, but it turns out that she too would rather spend all the kid money on travel and shiny crap.
It probably bears pointing out that she--a kid lover all the way, hence my mentioned worry--has worked for years at a preschool. Supply your own "best birth control ever" jokes as needed.
I myself have no such excuse apart from a paradoxically deep sort of shallowness that prohibits me from regarding the thought of kid-having as anything but just a tremendous pain in the ass.
posted by Skot at 9:06 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
Well, since we're here, 1. we've been together for about 8 years (married for 5), and no, no regrets so far. I'm one of those weird mutants who has simply just never felt it when it comes to having kids. I was really pretty worried about this when we had "the talk" about this issue, but it turns out that she too would rather spend all the kid money on travel and shiny crap.
It probably bears pointing out that she--a kid lover all the way, hence my mentioned worry--has worked for years at a preschool. Supply your own "best birth control ever" jokes as needed.
I myself have no such excuse apart from a paradoxically deep sort of shallowness that prohibits me from regarding the thought of kid-having as anything but just a tremendous pain in the ass.
posted by Skot at 9:06 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
I've got three kids and could easily have more if I thought it would be possible to really give that many the individual attention I feel they need. Would absolutely do it all again.
I can't imagine having kids if it's not something you very much want already.
posted by TheManChild2000 at 9:10 PM on March 11, 2008
I can't imagine having kids if it's not something you very much want already.
posted by TheManChild2000 at 9:10 PM on March 11, 2008
Coincidentally, I'm with Stacey and Skot: 8 years together with my partner, discussed things very early on, neither of us want kids for ourselves, nor even want to bring kids into this world. There's no species-wide biological requirement to add further people to this planet anyhow at this time.
We have no regrets, have remained firmly of this opinion all this time and see no likelihood of changing our minds, or our lifestyles.
posted by benzo8 at 9:11 PM on March 11, 2008
We have no regrets, have remained firmly of this opinion all this time and see no likelihood of changing our minds, or our lifestyles.
posted by benzo8 at 9:11 PM on March 11, 2008
I have kids (really good ones, healthy, intellilgent, compassionate, polite) and I don't resent them, but if I came back again, I'd want to do it without kids next time. They can be incredibly rewarding, and just as incredibly frustrating & worrying, and sometimes I feel really inadequate as a parent. Lastly, a lot of my dreams and hopes were justifiably pushed aside in order to meet my kids' needs. I agree with Stacey, having children works out best if you really, really want to do it.
Forget the family and peer pressure - that's a terrible reason to have kids. Just say sadly, oh, well, sometimes these things don't work out, and let them make up their own minds about what you mean. And if they're nosey, and ask, tell them you don't want to talk about it.
posted by b33j at 9:16 PM on March 11, 2008 [4 favorites]
Forget the family and peer pressure - that's a terrible reason to have kids. Just say sadly, oh, well, sometimes these things don't work out, and let them make up their own minds about what you mean. And if they're nosey, and ask, tell them you don't want to talk about it.
posted by b33j at 9:16 PM on March 11, 2008 [4 favorites]
We have a 15 mo.-old toddler and are planning on a second one, soon.
We went into this wanting children so bad we could feel a hole in our lives. No joke. It's been fantastically rewarding. Even still, it has been a lot of work and our lives are so different from what they were. Sometimes we miss the old days. Sometimes we miss "us".
If you're on the fence at all, I'd advise you to say no. Seconding what others have said, it really works best if you need children in your life together.
posted by codswallop at 9:28 PM on March 11, 2008
We went into this wanting children so bad we could feel a hole in our lives. No joke. It's been fantastically rewarding. Even still, it has been a lot of work and our lives are so different from what they were. Sometimes we miss the old days. Sometimes we miss "us".
If you're on the fence at all, I'd advise you to say no. Seconding what others have said, it really works best if you need children in your life together.
posted by codswallop at 9:28 PM on March 11, 2008
With partner for 7 years and no kids here, with the window of fertility beginning to close and barely a ticking of a biological clock to be heard from either of the involved parties. I can relate to your quandry! We've talked about adopting an older child at some point in the future.
posted by pluckysparrow at 9:29 PM on March 11, 2008
posted by pluckysparrow at 9:29 PM on March 11, 2008
the problem is that we both are not that enthusiastic about introducing someone addtional into the family
I'm not trying to be flippant, but doesn't that sort of settle it? Seriously. If you're not enthusiastic about having a child, please don't have a child.
posted by regicide is good for you at 9:30 PM on March 11, 2008 [6 favorites]
I'm not trying to be flippant, but doesn't that sort of settle it? Seriously. If you're not enthusiastic about having a child, please don't have a child.
posted by regicide is good for you at 9:30 PM on March 11, 2008 [6 favorites]
I echo b33j. I have three terrific kids. I enjoy most everything about them. I love my relationship with them. I too feel that my dreams and hopes have taken a back seat to my family's needs (Rightfully so.) But, knowing what I know now, I would likely choose to try it kidless next time.
My sister-in-law has one kid. It was a mistake for her to have kids and I think they did it because of outside pressures. They love their kid and work hard at being good parents, but it is a drain on their life. They were both triathletes and workaholics who are cramped and resentful of, but loving toward, their child.
Everyone has an opinion on this, but you and your wife are the ones who have to live with the decision. Make it yourself; be comfortable with it. Don't succumb to peer or family pressure.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:31 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
My sister-in-law has one kid. It was a mistake for her to have kids and I think they did it because of outside pressures. They love their kid and work hard at being good parents, but it is a drain on their life. They were both triathletes and workaholics who are cramped and resentful of, but loving toward, their child.
Everyone has an opinion on this, but you and your wife are the ones who have to live with the decision. Make it yourself; be comfortable with it. Don't succumb to peer or family pressure.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:31 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
Please check previous posts before asking the exact same question that has been asked at least 10 times on AskMe.
posted by mynameismandab at 9:32 PM on March 11, 2008
posted by mynameismandab at 9:32 PM on March 11, 2008
Waited 4 years after marriage to have the first, then really thought about having a second one, but after waiting five years, we decided to at age 37. No regrets whatsoever.
posted by 4ster at 10:08 PM on March 11, 2008
posted by 4ster at 10:08 PM on March 11, 2008
I'm the kind of guy who loves to read great books, tinker endlessly on my computer, create works of art when I'm in the right mood, and reeeeeally enjoys my own space & reclusion. Got married to an incredibly ambitious, gorgeous and intellectual woman over 2 years ago. We now have a 3-month old son. He was planned.
Now, despite my natural inclination to go all "Walden Pond" with my life, creating things electronically or with the written word, silently reading or meditating, and playing the Wii - the greatest joy I've experienced so far in life has been loving and rearing my son. I get physically antsy sometimes when I think about all of the incredible things I'll get to teach him, and all the things we'll learn together. I can't wait to challenge him and be challenged. And I know it'd be the same with a little daughter. I guess it all appeals to that side of me that loves to learn and create - the life-long student in me.
As morally imperative I may believe having a family is, and that raising wonderful kids is both a privilege and responsibility of able parents, I would never, ever advise anyone who didn't want to have kids to go ahead and have them anyway. I wouldn't count on anticipating a rush of regretless love and affection (although if I were a betting man, I'd bet you would). Any scenario but one with a willing couple would just be doing both parents and child some sort of disservice.
posted by Detuned Radio at 10:42 PM on March 11, 2008 [4 favorites]
Now, despite my natural inclination to go all "Walden Pond" with my life, creating things electronically or with the written word, silently reading or meditating, and playing the Wii - the greatest joy I've experienced so far in life has been loving and rearing my son. I get physically antsy sometimes when I think about all of the incredible things I'll get to teach him, and all the things we'll learn together. I can't wait to challenge him and be challenged. And I know it'd be the same with a little daughter. I guess it all appeals to that side of me that loves to learn and create - the life-long student in me.
As morally imperative I may believe having a family is, and that raising wonderful kids is both a privilege and responsibility of able parents, I would never, ever advise anyone who didn't want to have kids to go ahead and have them anyway. I wouldn't count on anticipating a rush of regretless love and affection (although if I were a betting man, I'd bet you would). Any scenario but one with a willing couple would just be doing both parents and child some sort of disservice.
posted by Detuned Radio at 10:42 PM on March 11, 2008 [4 favorites]
I am in my late 30s, one four-year old kid. We were ambivalent about it, and the pregnancy was a surprise, but I have no doubts that I'd do it again. I really feel happy and proud to have the little guy with us in the house. Two kids I'm not so sure about though.
posted by chips ahoy at 10:48 PM on March 11, 2008
posted by chips ahoy at 10:48 PM on March 11, 2008
I am 32 and have 3 kids. I would definitely do it again. However, I always knew that I wanted kids. As has been said by others, I think kids are tremendously rewarding if you are fully committed to them. I think if you are not fully committed and if you don't really want them, then the sacrifices that they require can make you resentful.
posted by bove at 10:57 PM on March 11, 2008
posted by bove at 10:57 PM on March 11, 2008
One daughter, and it's easily one of the greatest things to ever have happened to me. I'd do it again without hesitation, and we've given up an entire salary to make it work.
I was nervous, and somewhat ambivalent before she got here. Thought of having a baby almost entirely in terms of finances, resources, time sacrificed, etc. Once she got here, all of those concerns went out the window, and my life became awesome. Awesomely hard, but awesomely rewarding at the same time. The rewards outweigh the setbacks by a huge margin.
You can't always gauge how it's going to be based on how you feel before you actually have kids. Sometimes life blesses you with something you didn't even know you needed.
posted by SpacemanStix at 11:04 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
I was nervous, and somewhat ambivalent before she got here. Thought of having a baby almost entirely in terms of finances, resources, time sacrificed, etc. Once she got here, all of those concerns went out the window, and my life became awesome. Awesomely hard, but awesomely rewarding at the same time. The rewards outweigh the setbacks by a huge margin.
You can't always gauge how it's going to be based on how you feel before you actually have kids. Sometimes life blesses you with something you didn't even know you needed.
posted by SpacemanStix at 11:04 PM on March 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
The only sensible answer to this question is, there is no way of explaining to someone who doesn't have a child what it's like. It changes you, it changes your life, it radically changes your priorities and your outlook. Even if you describe all that to someone without kids, they can never really get it.
So, what can anyone even say to you? If you don't, you'll only regret not having them in some purely abstract way, and on the other hand, you'll never know what it's like to have them until you have them.
My answer to your survey question is, we have a kid, we're very happy we have a kid, we want to have another one.
And sometimes I look back on life before we had him and I almost don't get it. Was I just going to keep doing work, getting money, buying stuff with it, throwing it away and buying more stuff? That was going to be it, and then ... get old and die? Weird.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 11:30 PM on March 11, 2008 [9 favorites]
So, what can anyone even say to you? If you don't, you'll only regret not having them in some purely abstract way, and on the other hand, you'll never know what it's like to have them until you have them.
My answer to your survey question is, we have a kid, we're very happy we have a kid, we want to have another one.
And sometimes I look back on life before we had him and I almost don't get it. Was I just going to keep doing work, getting money, buying stuff with it, throwing it away and buying more stuff? That was going to be it, and then ... get old and die? Weird.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 11:30 PM on March 11, 2008 [9 favorites]
Seriously read this new blog. (DOI:The writer is a friend of mine). I have rarely read anything that so beautifully summed up the bittersweet nature of parenting.
We decided very deliberately to have children, our best friends, same age now 40s, decided against.
We are very honest in our discussions about the pros and cons of our different lifestyles.
Neither couple would choose to change the staus quo, but as another poster has said, if you're not enthusiastic I would counsel against.
posted by Wilder at 1:40 AM on March 12, 2008
We decided very deliberately to have children, our best friends, same age now 40s, decided against.
We are very honest in our discussions about the pros and cons of our different lifestyles.
Neither couple would choose to change the staus quo, but as another poster has said, if you're not enthusiastic I would counsel against.
posted by Wilder at 1:40 AM on March 12, 2008
AmbroseChapel's response is the sanest take on the subject I've seen. My wife's currently pregnant, our first. We were utterly uncertain for ages, but then gradually we've seen friends with babies: their lives have changed, of course, but they've survived, and not at the expense of their own personalities in any way. So we started trying in a relaxed kinda way, and here we are, nervous but excited! (I'm in my late 30s.)
Following on from AmbroseChapel's comments: we've enjoyed a fun, selfish lifestyle for years, but now that we've made this new commitment (hoping that all goes well with the pregnancy, of course), it's actually liberating to work out what matters most in life, to stop buying consumer crap we don't need, and to focus on creating a happy home for our child. It's all part of life's adventure (which doesn't mean of course that you can't have great adventures without children!).
posted by hatmandu at 1:41 AM on March 12, 2008
Following on from AmbroseChapel's comments: we've enjoyed a fun, selfish lifestyle for years, but now that we've made this new commitment (hoping that all goes well with the pregnancy, of course), it's actually liberating to work out what matters most in life, to stop buying consumer crap we don't need, and to focus on creating a happy home for our child. It's all part of life's adventure (which doesn't mean of course that you can't have great adventures without children!).
posted by hatmandu at 1:41 AM on March 12, 2008
Married since 1990; no kids, no desire ever to have any.
Several reasons for this; first off, with very few exceptions, we just don't like kids (if we don't like other peoples', what guarantee is there that we would like ours?). Second, we can't afford to provide the sort of education / healthcare / general upbringing that we think a child of ours should have. Third, and becoming more obvious in UK now, it's virtually impossible to raise a child in your own way without state interference.
YMMV, of course, in all aspects.
posted by No Mutant Enemy at 2:31 AM on March 12, 2008
Several reasons for this; first off, with very few exceptions, we just don't like kids (if we don't like other peoples', what guarantee is there that we would like ours?). Second, we can't afford to provide the sort of education / healthcare / general upbringing that we think a child of ours should have. Third, and becoming more obvious in UK now, it's virtually impossible to raise a child in your own way without state interference.
YMMV, of course, in all aspects.
posted by No Mutant Enemy at 2:31 AM on March 12, 2008
I have 3 kids and one on the way. I would do it a billion times over. The thing, though, is you get out of it what you put in. If you fight to keep "your life", then it will be all hell, because kids just take, take, take, take, especially in the first four to five years. But if you let them, if you let them radically change your life, they will teach you to give; and they will give back to you by loving you to death and it will be the greatest freakin thing that ever happened to you. If you make a point to enjoy your kids, they, in turn, will become enjoyable. I would rather go to Starbucks and play chess with my 11 yr. old daughter than go have a beer with any of my guy friends. But if your attitude is that your kids are little shits that suck your life away . . . then they will become . . . little shits that suck your life away.
posted by keith0718 at 2:49 AM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by keith0718 at 2:49 AM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
The main problem with this topic is that nobody has anything useful to say to anyone else — not just because "everyone's different" but because having children almost always seems (I don't have any yet) to induce a fundamental shift in perspective. So AmbroseChapel's outlook is great for AmbroseChapel, for example, but not relevant to someone who without kids: if life without kids only seems empty and meaningless to people with kids, then you've got two options in order to avoid experiencing emptiness and meaninglessness: have kids, or don't have kids. In other words, the testimony of people who've had kids and now can't imagine their life without them, while often moving to read, can't reasonably have any bearing on a childless person's decisionmaking.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 3:22 AM on March 12, 2008 [7 favorites]
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 3:22 AM on March 12, 2008 [7 favorites]
Hmmm. I'm a parent and delighted to be.
BUT I do think asking people who are still young and healthy(under 75 is young in my world) if they regret not having them, is missing the point.
Try going to a nursing home/retirement village and ask an elderly person who doesn't have kids if they regret it.
I think some people do secretly regret having children. But that's usually when there have been terrible problems with a child.
I don't think parents usually regret having a specific child, in that they wish that person never existed... more that if they could go back in time and have a chat with their past self, that they might warn them that their progeny is going to be an axe-murderer, and to use a condom....
These occasions are pretty rare. My belief (soley based on personal experience... in many many aged care facilities) is that in old age almost every woman regrets not having children. My thoughts are that people who don't think they can see any charm in children, ever... shouldn't have them. I'd have money on them regretting it eventually... .but it's better that someone regrets not having kids, than a child grows up with distant parents.
(I truly hope this reply is not offensive to anyone... .it's just my experience over many many years. ... and the thoughts I've had about it.)
Whatever you do possum, good luck. Kids are fabulous, there's no doubt about it. But other people's kids are just plain revolting. Even nieces and nephews are nauseating. And if you do decide to procreate, I promise to hate your kids as much as anyone elses. ;-)
posted by taff at 3:22 AM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
BUT I do think asking people who are still young and healthy(under 75 is young in my world) if they regret not having them, is missing the point.
Try going to a nursing home/retirement village and ask an elderly person who doesn't have kids if they regret it.
I think some people do secretly regret having children. But that's usually when there have been terrible problems with a child.
I don't think parents usually regret having a specific child, in that they wish that person never existed... more that if they could go back in time and have a chat with their past self, that they might warn them that their progeny is going to be an axe-murderer, and to use a condom....
These occasions are pretty rare. My belief (soley based on personal experience... in many many aged care facilities) is that in old age almost every woman regrets not having children. My thoughts are that people who don't think they can see any charm in children, ever... shouldn't have them. I'd have money on them regretting it eventually... .but it's better that someone regrets not having kids, than a child grows up with distant parents.
(I truly hope this reply is not offensive to anyone... .it's just my experience over many many years. ... and the thoughts I've had about it.)
Whatever you do possum, good luck. Kids are fabulous, there's no doubt about it. But other people's kids are just plain revolting. Even nieces and nephews are nauseating. And if you do decide to procreate, I promise to hate your kids as much as anyone elses. ;-)
posted by taff at 3:22 AM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
I have two kids and one grandchild. I did have some regrets with my first (unplanned) but the alternative was unbearable to me. I was also a lot younger (19), and now I have time on my own to do what I want. But I really love babies and little kids, so it was more of a financial burden than anything else. For me, the emotional reward of having kids outweighs the burdens.
That said, having kids changes your focus in life. The focus becomes the child. For the first few years of life, it's a 24-hour a day job that you can't quit (until they sleep through the night). You have to be calm and put aside your needs for a child. If you find you hate it, you can't put them back.
If you're not all that hep on it, I'd ask why you are considering it (do you sort of want them but aren't sure or is it strictly from feeling societal pressure?). If you really want to make a difference in a child's life without committing to having children, volunteer at Big Brother/Big Sister, and or go to a hospital and volunteer for the newborn holding program. I'm not clear on what your experience is with children, but how about some practice by babysitting for friends and family members?
Having kids never stops. It's lifelong, they don't disappear when they move out, they still call and ask for advice, etc. You still worry about them. This is neither good nor bad, it just *is*.
And for anyone pressuring you, let them have a child and raise it, if it's older in-laws, they can adopt and do it all over again. I love babies but I would never try to force having one on my friends or family members.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 4:21 AM on March 12, 2008
That said, having kids changes your focus in life. The focus becomes the child. For the first few years of life, it's a 24-hour a day job that you can't quit (until they sleep through the night). You have to be calm and put aside your needs for a child. If you find you hate it, you can't put them back.
If you're not all that hep on it, I'd ask why you are considering it (do you sort of want them but aren't sure or is it strictly from feeling societal pressure?). If you really want to make a difference in a child's life without committing to having children, volunteer at Big Brother/Big Sister, and or go to a hospital and volunteer for the newborn holding program. I'm not clear on what your experience is with children, but how about some practice by babysitting for friends and family members?
Having kids never stops. It's lifelong, they don't disappear when they move out, they still call and ask for advice, etc. You still worry about them. This is neither good nor bad, it just *is*.
And for anyone pressuring you, let them have a child and raise it, if it's older in-laws, they can adopt and do it all over again. I love babies but I would never try to force having one on my friends or family members.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 4:21 AM on March 12, 2008
This is of course your call to make, but I'm not sure if you asked the best question to help your decision. I think "if you weren't sure you wanted kids and either (1) stayed childness, or (2) had them anyway, do you regret your choice?" would help you more. The reason I think that is because a lot of the people who have kids and would love to have more, might have wanted kids their entire lives, and I think that mindset is significantly different from what yours sounds like. Just something to consider if these responses don't quite give you what you were looking for.
posted by boomchicka at 4:27 AM on March 12, 2008
posted by boomchicka at 4:27 AM on March 12, 2008
My partner and I were together for almost ten years before we decided to have kids. Now we have two. Is it all up-side? Absolutely not. Is the up-side worth it? Some days it does not seem like it, we've both changed far more than we ever thought we might or could and some days don't recognize who we were versus who we are becoming. (For some couples this part is really hard, and in our circle we know of some break ups because of it. Seriously, if you've been together for a while, this is a big adjustment in a period of huge adjustments.)
The biggest change though, personally, is that I feel like I'm swimming in the ocean. I feel like I've jumped off a boat in the middle of the ocean on a pretty clear day, and I'm swimming around. My partner is with me, which is nice, the companionship - but at the same time I can't help looking down into the water and knowing that at any moment something many, many times larger and completely at ease in this environment in which we are alien, could come swimming into view and destroy us. It's a beautiful, warm day and swimming in the water is like sitting in a sapphire. The bottom is two miles down, the nearest coast a thousand-odd miles away. We float and swim and it's not like anything else we've ever done. Then the thought of being stranded here without each other, without the boat, of any of the myriad things that could shred this one moment flits by and it is breathtaking. We are together though and laugh about how crazy it is.
What-ever else happens, I will know this, with her.
posted by From Bklyn at 4:41 AM on March 12, 2008
The biggest change though, personally, is that I feel like I'm swimming in the ocean. I feel like I've jumped off a boat in the middle of the ocean on a pretty clear day, and I'm swimming around. My partner is with me, which is nice, the companionship - but at the same time I can't help looking down into the water and knowing that at any moment something many, many times larger and completely at ease in this environment in which we are alien, could come swimming into view and destroy us. It's a beautiful, warm day and swimming in the water is like sitting in a sapphire. The bottom is two miles down, the nearest coast a thousand-odd miles away. We float and swim and it's not like anything else we've ever done. Then the thought of being stranded here without each other, without the boat, of any of the myriad things that could shred this one moment flits by and it is breathtaking. We are together though and laugh about how crazy it is.
What-ever else happens, I will know this, with her.
posted by From Bklyn at 4:41 AM on March 12, 2008
My husband and I had the "no kids" discussion BEFORE we started dating. I'm 44, pretty much too old to have kids without some genetic risks, and my husband has some stuff in his genetic heritage (which avoided him, but) he'd rather not bring into the world. In addition, and perhaps more importantly, neither of us really wanted to have kids. We wanted a marriage, companionship, but not kids.
No regrets at all, and blessedly, nobody hounding me asking when I'm going to have them, probably because of my age.
posted by lleachie at 5:08 AM on March 12, 2008
No regrets at all, and blessedly, nobody hounding me asking when I'm going to have them, probably because of my age.
posted by lleachie at 5:08 AM on March 12, 2008
P.S.: I feel frustrated with the characterization of childless couples as "selfish". There are many reasons to have children -- some reasons to have children are as "selfish" as some of the reasons not to have children.
posted by lleachie at 5:11 AM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by lleachie at 5:11 AM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
My partner and I have been together 20 years and have chosen to have no kids. That's partly because there is a very nasty genetic disease in his family. Having seen one of his two affected brothers deteriorate to the point where he has no quality of life whatsoever, I can't take the risk that a child of ours would suffer that. So we have no regrets.
Having said that, neither of us has ever felt the desire to have kids either. I don't know whether that's just because it was so firmly ingrained in my psyche from the time we got together, or not; but I've never yet felt the biological clock or the maternal desire. I hope it stays away, due to the medical reasons stated above.
In the meantime, we expend any nurturing urges on cats and friends - and on other people's kids, which we can spoil if we like and then hand back to their parents.
posted by andraste at 5:28 AM on March 12, 2008
Having said that, neither of us has ever felt the desire to have kids either. I don't know whether that's just because it was so firmly ingrained in my psyche from the time we got together, or not; but I've never yet felt the biological clock or the maternal desire. I hope it stays away, due to the medical reasons stated above.
In the meantime, we expend any nurturing urges on cats and friends - and on other people's kids, which we can spoil if we like and then hand back to their parents.
posted by andraste at 5:28 AM on March 12, 2008
Important: it's not exactly an egalitarian decision. A man decides not to have (biological) children for the time being, a woman decides forever.
I see so many guys of a certain age pushing around strollers that I have to wonder how many have similarly-aged ex-wives who didn't have the opportunity to reconsider a decision not to have kids.
posted by MattD at 6:27 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
I see so many guys of a certain age pushing around strollers that I have to wonder how many have similarly-aged ex-wives who didn't have the opportunity to reconsider a decision not to have kids.
posted by MattD at 6:27 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm outside your survey range (unmarried, no kids, and will never have any) but I hope you won't mind if I chime in with something that no-one else seems to have addressed in your OP:
Please, please, please don't have kids because of peer or family pressure. Like most things in life done to fit in with the crowd, such a move is short-sighted, shallow, and temporary. They don't have to raise the child: you do. If their expectations are becoming aggravating, work out replies that will shut them down on end conversation on the subject. It's not your "duty" to procreate, and it is rude of anyone to make more than the most casual and rare inquiry about the option of children.
posted by Bora Horza Gobuchul at 7:02 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Please, please, please don't have kids because of peer or family pressure. Like most things in life done to fit in with the crowd, such a move is short-sighted, shallow, and temporary. They don't have to raise the child: you do. If their expectations are becoming aggravating, work out replies that will shut them down on end conversation on the subject. It's not your "duty" to procreate, and it is rude of anyone to make more than the most casual and rare inquiry about the option of children.
posted by Bora Horza Gobuchul at 7:02 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Been married sans kids for nearly 10 years now. I've always wanted one, my wife has never been ready. We're at the age now where she realizes it's time to try it or it will be too late, and she's come to feel that she wants to do it.
So, we're going for it because we both want to try it. If neither of you want to try it, well, it may not be right for you. Some people are perfectly happy with nieces and nephews and other people's kids without wanting one of their own. It's your life, and your decision. Not every choice we make turns out to be the right one in hindsight, but life without the risk of regret is a damn boring life. All you can do is choose based on what you know now.
It's also rather hard for it to be completely too late, either. Even if you can't produce your own, there are always children who need homes. If adoption isn't out of the question for you, well, you can always try it if in a few years you feel you are missing something important. It is tougher to get approved for an adoption as you age, but it isn't impossible. Being a parent means raising a kid, not necessarily giving birth to it. We both know that things may not work out as we hope biologically, and adoption has always been on the table for us as an option.
posted by caution live frogs at 7:17 AM on March 12, 2008
So, we're going for it because we both want to try it. If neither of you want to try it, well, it may not be right for you. Some people are perfectly happy with nieces and nephews and other people's kids without wanting one of their own. It's your life, and your decision. Not every choice we make turns out to be the right one in hindsight, but life without the risk of regret is a damn boring life. All you can do is choose based on what you know now.
It's also rather hard for it to be completely too late, either. Even if you can't produce your own, there are always children who need homes. If adoption isn't out of the question for you, well, you can always try it if in a few years you feel you are missing something important. It is tougher to get approved for an adoption as you age, but it isn't impossible. Being a parent means raising a kid, not necessarily giving birth to it. We both know that things may not work out as we hope biologically, and adoption has always been on the table for us as an option.
posted by caution live frogs at 7:17 AM on March 12, 2008
Somewhere in the first few months of dating, my wife and I discussed our mutual non-interest in having kids. We've been married 4 1/2 years now. A+++++++++. Would not have kids again.
posted by Zed_Lopez at 7:47 AM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by Zed_Lopez at 7:47 AM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
Two kids. Would do it again. We sometimes wish we had had more kids.
posted by GuyZero at 7:49 AM on March 12, 2008
posted by GuyZero at 7:49 AM on March 12, 2008
Even if you describe all that to someone without kids, they can never really get it.
Please, stop this type of statement. Those of us who have decided not to have kids DO get it - we get it well enough that we've decided it's not for us.
My opinion might not carry much weight with you, kingfish, as my husband and I have only been married since 2005, but we've decided not to have kids and we're happy with that. We're just not interested - and that's totally fine. Make the decision that's right for you and your life.
posted by agregoli at 8:18 AM on March 12, 2008 [7 favorites]
Please, stop this type of statement. Those of us who have decided not to have kids DO get it - we get it well enough that we've decided it's not for us.
My opinion might not carry much weight with you, kingfish, as my husband and I have only been married since 2005, but we've decided not to have kids and we're happy with that. We're just not interested - and that's totally fine. Make the decision that's right for you and your life.
posted by agregoli at 8:18 AM on March 12, 2008 [7 favorites]
I've never particularly wanted kids. My partner and I have been together for 2.5 years, she was on the fence about kids, we've decided not to have them, we both feel fine with that. If one of us gets biologically clocky, we will reopen the discussion. She wants to work with kids, so it's not like she won't be around them at all if we don't become parents. Note that we're a lesbian couple, so having kids would be a more complicated affair than for straight, fertile couples. But the kids question was certainly was an important one to discuss when we had the RDT (relationship-defining talk).
Fostering/adopting has been raised as a possibility, though I'm not ready yet. There are so many kids that need homes, especially kids that are past the usual age for adoption.
I'd like to reiterate what a couple others have said, which is: don't do it if you don't really truly want to. It's too big to do it half-heartedly or to risk regrets. I wouldn't even foster a kid temporarily if I wasn't confident that it was the right thing for everyone involved; I can't imagine bringing a child into world with less than complete confidence that I wanted to be a parent. Pressure from family and peers can be frustrating and can wear you down, but it does not even resemble a reason to have children that you otherwise would not have had.
posted by bassjump at 8:23 AM on March 12, 2008
Fostering/adopting has been raised as a possibility, though I'm not ready yet. There are so many kids that need homes, especially kids that are past the usual age for adoption.
I'd like to reiterate what a couple others have said, which is: don't do it if you don't really truly want to. It's too big to do it half-heartedly or to risk regrets. I wouldn't even foster a kid temporarily if I wasn't confident that it was the right thing for everyone involved; I can't imagine bringing a child into world with less than complete confidence that I wanted to be a parent. Pressure from family and peers can be frustrating and can wear you down, but it does not even resemble a reason to have children that you otherwise would not have had.
posted by bassjump at 8:23 AM on March 12, 2008
Well, the other thing is, you can't just "try" having kids. Once you have them, you have them. For the whole rest of your life.
Personally, I am in the "don't have them unless you really want them" camp.
As you see above, plenty of people live fulfilling lives without children, and it's not like we are facing a shortage of humans to populate the earth.
My cousin always wanted kids her whole life, and now that she has them she adores them but it also kind of drives her insane. I can't imagine doing what she does all day, but then I'm not really a kid person.
Therefore: no kids for me. (I am 32).
posted by exceptinsects at 8:28 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Personally, I am in the "don't have them unless you really want them" camp.
As you see above, plenty of people live fulfilling lives without children, and it's not like we are facing a shortage of humans to populate the earth.
My cousin always wanted kids her whole life, and now that she has them she adores them but it also kind of drives her insane. I can't imagine doing what she does all day, but then I'm not really a kid person.
Therefore: no kids for me. (I am 32).
posted by exceptinsects at 8:28 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
it's better that someone regrets not having kids, than a child grows up with distant parents.
I think that is very true.
Our daughter was unexpected and unplanned (though we knew we eventually wanted kids). I was very worried at first, and very apprehensive. While I love my daughter more than anything else in the world, and I believe (and have been told) that I am a great Dad, the parenting experience has certainly not been without some regrets. One thing that becomes difficult (particularly with older kids) is considering relocating. We are sort of vaguely considering moving to a different state now, and the schooling component of it is very complicated and frustrating to deal with. Without kids, we probably would be already settled in a new place.
Anyway, don't listen to the peer pressure -- if you don't want a child, don't have one.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:51 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
I think that is very true.
Our daughter was unexpected and unplanned (though we knew we eventually wanted kids). I was very worried at first, and very apprehensive. While I love my daughter more than anything else in the world, and I believe (and have been told) that I am a great Dad, the parenting experience has certainly not been without some regrets. One thing that becomes difficult (particularly with older kids) is considering relocating. We are sort of vaguely considering moving to a different state now, and the schooling component of it is very complicated and frustrating to deal with. Without kids, we probably would be already settled in a new place.
Anyway, don't listen to the peer pressure -- if you don't want a child, don't have one.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:51 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Some great comments here on both sides of the discussion (and some from the fence, where you seem to be).
My wife and I have been together for 9 years, married for 4. Neither of us has ever wanted kids, though we both enjoy spending time with our "kidded" friends, goofing off with their children, babysitting, what have you. It takes a village, etc, and we're honored to be guardians/godparents for some of them. Honestly, if you're "not that enthusiastic", that would be a good indicator for me... then again, could be nervousness at such a big change in your life.
If you DO have kids, please don't trot out the "childless people don't get it" routine. Good luck with a tough decision!
posted by Pantengliopoli at 9:03 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
My wife and I have been together for 9 years, married for 4. Neither of us has ever wanted kids, though we both enjoy spending time with our "kidded" friends, goofing off with their children, babysitting, what have you. It takes a village, etc, and we're honored to be guardians/godparents for some of them. Honestly, if you're "not that enthusiastic", that would be a good indicator for me... then again, could be nervousness at such a big change in your life.
If you DO have kids, please don't trot out the "childless people don't get it" routine. Good luck with a tough decision!
posted by Pantengliopoli at 9:03 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
When my wife and I decided to have a child we both very much wanted one, although we certainly had apprehensions about how it would change our lives. I cannot imagine going into this very challenging endeavor without feeling that way. Your raising the issue of "peer and family pressure" concerns me. These should not be an issue in this decision.
I would not trade the experience of having our son for anything. I cannot imagine my life without him and being a parent is incredibly enriching. If I had it all to do again, knowing what I know now? I absolutely would.
But it is frequently very difficult, it is an almost total transformation of life, and it involves persistent personal sacrifice. A child cannot sustain, care for, protect or educate itself. The only place for these resources to come from are from you and your wife - your time, your money, your attention. Of course this is true of any commitment, so it comes down to whether you really want it or not.
posted by nanojath at 9:05 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
I would not trade the experience of having our son for anything. I cannot imagine my life without him and being a parent is incredibly enriching. If I had it all to do again, knowing what I know now? I absolutely would.
But it is frequently very difficult, it is an almost total transformation of life, and it involves persistent personal sacrifice. A child cannot sustain, care for, protect or educate itself. The only place for these resources to come from are from you and your wife - your time, your money, your attention. Of course this is true of any commitment, so it comes down to whether you really want it or not.
posted by nanojath at 9:05 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
One thing that becomes difficult...
Having children is difficult. It makes everything far more difficult in life. But like many other things, you have kids because they are rewarding, not because they are easy.
posted by GuyZero at 9:13 AM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
Having children is difficult. It makes everything far more difficult in life. But like many other things, you have kids because they are rewarding, not because they are easy.
posted by GuyZero at 9:13 AM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
We have a four-year old and an 11-month old. It's an incredible amount of work, it's very stressful, it will make your life more difficult in almost every conceivable way.
That said, I would absolutely do it all over again.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:29 AM on March 12, 2008
That said, I would absolutely do it all over again.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:29 AM on March 12, 2008
I have two (24 and 11, yeah, God has a sense of humor) and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. One of my favorite sayings is:
"Kids are more fun than Cable TV... More expensive too!"
posted by davereed at 10:17 AM on March 12, 2008
"Kids are more fun than Cable TV... More expensive too!"
posted by davereed at 10:17 AM on March 12, 2008
I have two boys, and I would do it again in a heartbeat if I could, and probably have one more. BUT--and I think this is the most important factor--we both really wanted kids. If you aren't committed to having children, at the same level as, say, you were committed to becoming a couple, I don't think the experience would be that positive for you and your partner or your kids. So, unless it is something you really want, you certainly shouldn't feel as if you HAVE to have kids! In fact, if you are both still unsure, I'd say don't do it, but that's just my opinion.
posted by misha at 10:33 AM on March 12, 2008
posted by misha at 10:33 AM on March 12, 2008
Davereed, my younger sister and I are about your kids' age!
I don't have kids but I have talked to my parents and they both wish that they could have another child but can't due to their age. I know having me was financially hard on them for the first 11 years or so of my life but it seems rewarding enough for them to decide to have my sister later on.
posted by vocpanda at 10:57 AM on March 12, 2008
I don't have kids but I have talked to my parents and they both wish that they could have another child but can't due to their age. I know having me was financially hard on them for the first 11 years or so of my life but it seems rewarding enough for them to decide to have my sister later on.
posted by vocpanda at 10:57 AM on March 12, 2008
My wife and I accidentally had twins last year. (Seriously--we were on the pill and everything.) We could not be happier about it. I'd always been certain I'd never want to have children: the extra work, the expense, and I've never really liked other people's kids. But these two little girls. . .
I know it's a cliche, but there's literally nothing in the world better than the weight and smell of your baby laying on your chest. Even right this second, with Tabitha fighting my efforts to feed her (I'm typing this one-handed) and Miranda shrieking behind me to the effect that she wants HER bottle, goddammityouasshole, I wouldn't trade them for anything. I come to you as a convert. Being a parent is great.
posted by EarBucket at 11:47 AM on March 12, 2008
I know it's a cliche, but there's literally nothing in the world better than the weight and smell of your baby laying on your chest. Even right this second, with Tabitha fighting my efforts to feed her (I'm typing this one-handed) and Miranda shrieking behind me to the effect that she wants HER bottle, goddammityouasshole, I wouldn't trade them for anything. I come to you as a convert. Being a parent is great.
posted by EarBucket at 11:47 AM on March 12, 2008
A little background: Female, 28, close relationship with both parents, parents are still happily married, retired, and financially well off. I am working on a PhD, and just got married.
Over the last round of visits home for the winter holiday, two of my female best friends' (from similar backgrounds) mothers basically advised them not to have children. Not that they *regretted* it in so many words, but they wouldn't wish it on their children. My mom also recently confided in me that she wouldn't recommend it, because it kind of sucks the fun out of your life, and you can't just do what you want anymore.
We are all very well educated, with successful and well educated parents. I don't really have an explanation as to why my and my friends' moms suddenly felt compelled to tell us not to have kids, (maybe we're at that certain age), but it certainly seems noteworthy, especially that these were all mothers confiding in their daughters not to do it. Of course, if you're sure that you want children, that's fine and great.
posted by hybridvigor at 1:58 PM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Over the last round of visits home for the winter holiday, two of my female best friends' (from similar backgrounds) mothers basically advised them not to have children. Not that they *regretted* it in so many words, but they wouldn't wish it on their children. My mom also recently confided in me that she wouldn't recommend it, because it kind of sucks the fun out of your life, and you can't just do what you want anymore.
We are all very well educated, with successful and well educated parents. I don't really have an explanation as to why my and my friends' moms suddenly felt compelled to tell us not to have kids, (maybe we're at that certain age), but it certainly seems noteworthy, especially that these were all mothers confiding in their daughters not to do it. Of course, if you're sure that you want children, that's fine and great.
posted by hybridvigor at 1:58 PM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
The mister and I have been together for nine years and married for eight. He had a vasectomy about 30 years ago. I decided not to have kids 20 years ago. We both went into the relationship knowing where we stood on the kid question.
As for regrets, the mister answered no, he's never had any in the 30 years since his vasectomy. I'd say I'm about 90% regret free. There is the rare occasion when I see a particularly charming baby or child that I almost wish that I had one.
posted by deborah at 4:25 PM on March 12, 2008
As for regrets, the mister answered no, he's never had any in the 30 years since his vasectomy. I'd say I'm about 90% regret free. There is the rare occasion when I see a particularly charming baby or child that I almost wish that I had one.
posted by deborah at 4:25 PM on March 12, 2008
I don't really have an explanation as to why my and my friends' moms suddenly felt compelled to tell us not to have kids
There is, generally, a negative correlation between education and childbearing. More educated populations tend to have fewer children than more educated ones. Correlation or causation, take your pick.
posted by GuyZero at 8:29 PM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
There is, generally, a negative correlation between education and childbearing. More educated populations tend to have fewer children than more educated ones. Correlation or causation, take your pick.
posted by GuyZero at 8:29 PM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
You answered the question yourself: the problem is that we both are not that enthusiastic about introducing someone addtional into the family or in between. If you don't feel the need to have kids, don't.
My husband and I have been together 10+ years and we decided a few years into our relationship that we weren't going to be procreating (for a variety of reasons, of course). He was 100% sure, I was 85% sure at the time. He got a vasectomy with the caveat that if we change our minds we would adopt. I sometimes get romantic notions about how kickass our kid(s) would be, but that's not the same as the day-in-and-day-out work it takes. I am now 99% sure I am not cut out to be a parent.
If you can fulfill your lives in other ways, I recommend the vasectomy route. Most people who have kids will tell you it's the best thing they've ever done. But that's their experience. I really believe that the best parents are the ones who love it, so if you don't have that burning desire, don't cave to the pressure. It's your life, nobody else's.
posted by hulahulagirl at 11:27 AM on March 13, 2008
My husband and I have been together 10+ years and we decided a few years into our relationship that we weren't going to be procreating (for a variety of reasons, of course). He was 100% sure, I was 85% sure at the time. He got a vasectomy with the caveat that if we change our minds we would adopt. I sometimes get romantic notions about how kickass our kid(s) would be, but that's not the same as the day-in-and-day-out work it takes. I am now 99% sure I am not cut out to be a parent.
If you can fulfill your lives in other ways, I recommend the vasectomy route. Most people who have kids will tell you it's the best thing they've ever done. But that's their experience. I really believe that the best parents are the ones who love it, so if you don't have that burning desire, don't cave to the pressure. It's your life, nobody else's.
posted by hulahulagirl at 11:27 AM on March 13, 2008
Heh, apparently I am educated more and more... I meant that more educated populations have fewer children than less educated populations.
posted by GuyZero at 11:38 AM on March 13, 2008
posted by GuyZero at 11:38 AM on March 13, 2008
My husband and I finalized our "to have or not to have" children debate around the same time last year. I am wondering what you decided on, we went with the vasectomy.
posted by marisol at 4:11 PM on February 8, 2009
posted by marisol at 4:11 PM on February 8, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by oddman at 8:40 PM on March 11, 2008