Help me help my daughter

March 23, 2007 8:40 AM

How involved should I be in my 8-year-old’s friendship woes?

My daughter has a stormy relationship with her 2 best friends at school. Some days she tells me they get along great. Other days they argue. That sounds normal enough and I don’t worry about it. But sometimes she’s very sad and tearful and tells me that she doesn’t think they really like her at all and are just pretending to be her friend. That breaks my heart. Other times she says they’re mean and tell secrets when they know she’s looking but can’t hear. She demands to know what they’re saying and then they won’t tell her and she gets really bent out of shape.

As much as I love her, I know from living with her that she can be overbearing and is quick to take offense and play the victim. She can also be a tacky little brat, but it’s generally in response to her feeling like she’s been mistreated. She’s rarely malicious and I’ve never seen her instigate anything ugly with her friends, but she doesn’t handle it well when she thinks they’re mistreating her. She’s an only child and I’m not sure how much that has to do with it.

I’ve told her all the standard things–to ignore them, to find someone else to play with, to try and have a little thicker skin and roll with the punches. I tell her that she can’t control other kids’ behavior but can only control her own and that if she’s not happy with how she’s being treated, she needs to find new friends. I don’t know if any of this sinks in or not.

Am I handling this in the right way? I don’t want to blow her off because she’s really upset. On the other hand, I don’t want my comments or participation to make more out of the situation than it is. I try to invite the little girls over one at a time to play and they generally get along much better in that situation. But it doesn’t seem to help at school.

Any ideas, either from parents who have been there or people who remember these situations from when they were kids would be appreciated.

posted by BluGnu to human relations (31 answers total)

I think you're doing the right thing so far by staying an arms-length away from the problem. From what I remember about being that age and dealing with the other girls in school my parents gave me both the "sink or swim" mentality and the "We still love you and are here for you" schtick.
She might feel like you should come to her rescue, and come to school and magically make her friends be nicer to her. Unfortunately, you can't do that, and that's something she'll learn as she gets older. She'll gain more confidence from dealing with these problems on her own.
By all means, keep the lines of communication open and make sure she knows you're on her side. Beyond that, I don't think there's much else you can do for her directly. Give her advice, ideas, support and all the tools she needs to stand up for herself and she will grow up to be a very confident young lady.
posted by slyboots421 at 8:54 AM on March 23, 2007

The book Odd Girl Out might be helpful. Most of it's about slightly older girls, but she talks about preteens as well, and does give some suggestions (near the end) for teachers and parents who are trying to help kids navigate some of these issues. (I would suspect other relational aggression books, like Queen Bees and Wannabees might also be helpful, but I haven't read others so can't vouch for them.)

Anecdotally, I don't remember having many problems in my friendships that young, but by sixth grade some nasty nasty things started happening and I really wish my mother could have helped me out more; I'm 99% sure that part of the reason she didn't was because she didn't know what was going on, because I wasn't comfortable talking to her about what was going on. It wouldn't be a bad thing to get some of those conversational patterns in place now with your daughter, I'd think, so that if things do ramp up, as they seem to with girls, that friendships are already an open topic of conversation with you.
posted by occhiblu at 9:01 AM on March 23, 2007

Welcome to the endlessly complicated, constantly changing world of girls' friendships.

It's really hard to step away and not interfere, but step away you must. She's doing something important - she's learning how to navigate in the world of friends. The more that you interfere, the more she will depend on you to fix things for her when her relationships go wrong. Here's what I always tell my girls, no matter the age: we teach other people how to treat us. The inverse of that is that we should treat others like we want to be treated. If she sticks to this, then she'll winnow away the "bad" friends and keep the good. Your job is to listen, hug her when she's hurt, and ask her how things could have gone better or she could have handled things differently. Sometimes it's okay to just say "that stinks, I'm so sorry."

The clique thing with girls can get really nasty. This is about the age that it starts, and it will get really bad in middle school when girls go into puberty. Suddenly, friends act different, and people you used to trust treat you badly. This is normal. She will learn to recognize what a good friend is, and hopefully, how she can be a good friend.

I think that it's important to validate her feelings and make her feel safe to talk to you. That way, the ground work is laid when "Jane called me fat" turns into "I saw Jane smoking pot." If you react calmly, she will learn to relax and want to talk to you. If you're reactive and interfere, she'll eventually close off and not complain at all by the time she's a teenager.

Ugh. Good luck.
posted by Flakypastry at 9:03 AM on March 23, 2007 [3 favorites]

Oh, forgot to comment on the 2 girlfriend thing. It's been my observation that a group of three friends can often get toxic. Many times, 2 girls gang up on one and things get nasty for awhile. Then things switch around and someone else gets the short end of the stick. Can your daughter invite another girl into the circle of friends? That usually diffuses the ganging-up thing.
posted by Flakypastry at 9:10 AM on March 23, 2007

I wouldn't try to come in and solve her problems for her by requiring that the other kids treat her better or include her more - I remember parents who tried to do that for their children in grade school, and it didn't reflect well on the kids, or improve much of anything. The kids just became known as kids with meddlesome parents, and the kids' status with everyone else fell even lower. I think the best you can do is try to help her fend for herself - she's going to need to learn this lesson for the rest of her life anyway. And, of course, continue your support and keep the dialogue open.

I remember my dad telling stories of being beaten up as a kid, and his dad taught him to fight back. He grew up quite well adjusted - as far as I can tell - and is proud that he got the hang of defending himself, and ended up gaining a lot of respect from his peers. Girls problems seem like they can be nastier and trickier to navigate, but I think the same holds true - she needs to learn how to hold her own. She may need to learn how to not be so bossy or bratty, if she's doing that with her friends - curtailing that conduct is part of learning social competence. Or she may just need new friends - learning to recognize when to trade in friends is an important life lesson too. And learning to make new friends is also a critical life lesson, incidentally. I grew up with built in friends through high school (small community, don't remember having to "make" friends until went to big new high school where everyone already knew each other). That was trickier than I ever dreamed. But I had to learn the trick, so that I could keep making friends in college, at work, in a new city, etc.

I guess if I were her, I would want support from my parents, unconditional love from my parents, advice and guidance from my parents, and maybe some treats that were not obviously an attempt to make me feel better for my friends woes but still made me feel special and cheered me up.
posted by Amizu at 9:14 AM on March 23, 2007

I highly recommend this book: Best Friends, Worst Enemies: the Social Lives of Children.

It covers all the stuff you've talked about here: what's really a crisis, when to get involved (the answer is usually "never"), and how children's socialization evolves from toddler to teen, so you know what to watch out for (you'll find yourself having loads of "a-ha!" and identifying moments).

It's been the most valuable resource we've had, in being there for my 10-year-old stepdaughter (also an only child, and also very sensitive to social issues with pals).

There are three additional things I'd recommend:

1. Girl friendships are hard in sets of three. In every tiny decision -- what to snack on, what game to play, what to listen to, what pop star to like -- there is the risk of two agreeing and one disagreeing. It makes for scary dynamics, because the odd one out doesn't always have the ability to see those minor skirmishes for what they really are, and instead elevates them into drama.

Keep having the other two over singly: it lets your girl get more confident in her individual relationships with Girl B and Girl C, so that when they are all together, she can relax when there is a problem, knowing that she is secure in the core friendships.

2. Talk to the girls' teacher. I guarantee you that she is aware of the drama and the relationships. Our third grade teacher was a priceless resource when we were beginning to navigate girl-friendship-drama waters, because she witnessed the various tiny interactions that led to this problem or that one.

By alerting her when we had concerns about this or that friendship, she could subtly help us keep the kids on a good track, and vice versa.

And, eventually one of the A-B-C relationships got so dramatic that our 3rd grade teacher ended up recommending to other faculty that Girl B go into a different class for the fourth grade, as she was getting overly involved and possessive. Teachers are smart and know stuff; use them.

3. If you can talk to the other girls' moms, casually and socially, do so. Seek them out at school play night or open house night, or invite one of them in for tea or wine when there's a playdate drop-off. Getting to know the parents will give you loads of insight on the kids themselves, and give you an idea as to what social messages the other girls are getting in their own home.

Maybe your girl is being overly sensitive; maybe she's right and the other two are cruel to her. Being aware that both are possible, and helping give your own child the tools to decide which and rectify the situation, is the best you can do.

Good luck!
posted by pineapple at 9:16 AM on March 23, 2007 [2 favorites]

You should be involved to the absolute limits of your capacity.

The world eight year olds would make for themselves in the absence of adults is extremely stark and brutal, and without guidance from you, she may have trouble developing the moral vision essential to becoming a good person, especially since, as an only child she is not compelled to share at home and has fewer natural opportunities to cultivate her empathy for and love of other children.
posted by jamjam at 9:20 AM on March 23, 2007

Or, you know, exactly what FlakyPastry said. Le sigh.

I will learn to use "preview" for something more than proofreading! I will, Papa!
posted by pineapple at 9:20 AM on March 23, 2007

Actually, pineapple, that was a great book recommendation. I put it on my list for the next trip to B&N. Plus, it's good to hear that lots of girls and parents go through this. It wasn't until my second daughter started having these issues that I relaxed and said "yeah, that's normal, we can do this."
posted by Flakypastry at 9:29 AM on March 23, 2007

Two thoughts:
1. yes, talk to the teacher. If s/he has noticed more than usual unpleasantness, there might be a counselor at school who can take one of the kids aside for a short meeting and say "you know, when you make fun of people, they may not realize that you're only teasing, and they might get their feelings hurt" etc. Someone at my elementary school did this for me when I was about this age, and it was very eye-opening.

2. see if there's a way you get give her social outlets outside of school with a different group of kids -- eg soccer league, karate class, art class etc. If she has more than one group of friends, she'll be less panicky if things go south with the first group.

3. if she's generally too reliant on you to solve her social problems, consider sending her to overnight summer camp for a week or two. It can be a really wonderful experience -- even despite homesickness at first -- and a good way for only children or children who are very close to their parents to start navigating the social waters on their own with a little more confidence. (Check out any such camp thoroughly, esp. find out how many kids/counselors come back year after year)
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:45 AM on March 23, 2007

The advice from the folks above is solid, and you should listen to it. But if want another perspective...

I know from living with her that she can be overbearing and is quick to take offense and play the victim. She can also be a tacky little brat, but it’s generally in response to her feeling like she’s been mistreated.

You are not your daughter's friend. You are not your daughter's roommate. You are your daughter's parent.

If your daughter is overbearing, quick to take offense, prone to playing the victim, and a tacky little brat ... it is because you are instilling these behaviors into her.

If she's acting overbearing and you give into that, you create an overbearing child. If she perceives she has been mistreated and acts like a brat, and then gets her way, she will act like a brat again and again and again. "I know from living with her..." You don't merely live with her. You are parenting her.

Part of helping your daughter deal with her friends will be ensuring that you, as her parent, are screwing her head on straight, so she will be happy and successful at age 8, age 18, age 28, 38, 48, etc...
posted by frogan at 9:50 AM on March 23, 2007 [2 favorites]

Get her into activities where she meets new friends, and develops a new skillset.

This will stand her in good stead as she gets older as well as she won't depend on her school "friends" for her self esteem so much.

School was hell for me as a child, particularly as it related to other children, but being able to visit my cousins on weekends, whose friends all liked me and were NICE to me, really helped tremendously.
posted by konolia at 10:12 AM on March 23, 2007

Oh wow. This was me at age 8, a total facsimile.

There are a lot of good recommendations here, particularly the books. I thought I'd chime in because I still remember exactly how I felt when I was your daughter's age. Something tells me that you're probably a better parent than my mom and dad were, but this is my perspective.

What I wish my parents had done for me:

1) I wish they had told me that I deserved to have better friends, that I should look elsewhere for them, and that sometimes having no friends is better than having lousy friends. Extracurricular activities, like an art class or something, might help give your daughter perspective with regard to this.

2) I wish they had paid attention to my personality and self-esteem issues and helped to change them a little more. They definitely didn't do that enough. And when they did point out my shortcomings, they didn't do it in a constructive way. It made me feel like I couldn't trust them. Which leads me to my third point.

3) I wish I had felt I could talk to them. Encourage your daughter to confide in you--only if she wants to--and tell her that you will listen to her without offering advice/criticism unless she wants it. My mother totally lost my trust by listening to me unload all my friendship woes and then replying with her analysis of what *I* had done to deserve it. Lesson learned: Never tell mom anything again.

4) They really, really should've made me get out of the house every once in awhile, learn to ride a bike and jump rope and play kickball. I was such a bookish, awkward, fearful weenie. I have no idea if your daughter is at all like this, but I cannot emphasize this enough: Sports are important, they're team building and character building and they teach you at a young age how to deal with the assholes you'll be encountering for the rest of your life.
posted by veronica sawyer at 10:25 AM on March 23, 2007 [3 favorites]

Please remember to tell her that she is most likely not the problem. Speaking as one who was continually scapegoated as a girl, I think you need to watch out for signs that she's internalizing her crummy friends' nastiness. With me, the process went "I want to be their friend because I admire them. They tell me things about myself. They have more friends than me so they must be right, there's something wrong with me." Also--though you're probably aware of this--this sort of cruelty can spread from the "friend" group and permeate the poor kid's whole class. Next thing you know, everyone's telling her she smells and she just sits at home every weekend staring at the TV.

One more thing: Lots of people (myself included--oh, the irony!) tend to confuse helpful advice with sympathy. Perhaps instead of telling her ways to deal with the problem, you could just listen and hug for a while. Hugs are good.

As an adult I'm still paying for a lot of expensive therapy to try to undo this. Your daughter is very lucky that she has a parent who listens and tries to help.
posted by scratch at 11:16 AM on March 23, 2007

I had some friend drama as a child and I would get upset too. But I survived it okay for a few reasons:

1. I went to a school where people were generally very caring. If I was having trouble with a friend, there were always other people around to play with - people weren't too cliquish in general. If your daughter can't find that environment at school, find her a place where it does exist (sports, dance class, etc.).

2. I had a few teachers (again, good school) who did a lot to try to try to help us socially. They instituted peer mediation and we talked about bullying a lot in school. We also talked about the pressure to be cool and about being comfortable with yourself, which gave us all enough self-esteem to wither the storm of teen drama. A lot of community-building took place in school.

You can't tell your daughter's teacher what to do but you can get involved at school, maybe work with the PTA, to try to ensure that there is a supportive environment there. Kids will still be kids but it can either be better or worse depending on the school climate.
posted by mai at 11:47 AM on March 23, 2007

Thank you all so much for the good advice. I'm definitely going to look at the books. I'll also be doing more hugging and listening and less advice-giving. To me, finding the balance between "taking-care-of" and "letting-go" is the one of the hardest parts of parenting.

Thanks again and any other insights are certainly welcome.
posted by BluGnu at 11:49 AM on March 23, 2007

Oh, and get involved at school now. There is nothing worse than being twelve and having a mother that tries to solve your problems. But if you are a little bit activist now, you can step back a bit when she is older.
posted by mai at 11:49 AM on March 23, 2007

We are having the exact same issue with our daughter (8) at the moment.

One thing I have heard is that the 'tripod' or 3-person relationship is inherently unstable, because as everyone has already pointed out - two of the three will inevitably side together at the exclusion of the third.
posted by jkaczor at 12:09 PM on March 23, 2007

frogan's a little brusque but I think he's absolutely right. If your daughter's often unlikeable the best thing you can do to help her is help her learn to be more likeable -- without sacrificing her individuality, which is the big postpuberty pitfall waiting for her. If she's highstrung and tends to blow things out of proportion, help her understand that doing that makes people take her less seriously. That takes time. Every time she's being bratty, that means pausing the insane schedule that is most parents' lives I know and dealing with the behavior.

Kids who get upset easily (and who are bratty/bossy yet easily wounded) are like bully magnets. It's funny to other kids to wind them up, because it's so easy to do and gets such a predictable result. Help her to see the cause and effect. Show her that there are all sorts of ways to get what she wants without brattiness or manipulation. That also means if you're often impatient or in a bad mood around her, you have to change as well. If she ever sees you getting what you want with such methods, she's going to model them. Basically: model and teach the behaviors you want to see in her, and it will help her at home and school and with whatever life dishes out. And yes, Odd Girl Out and hugs are good, too.
posted by melissa may at 12:17 PM on March 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

frogan's assertion that you are responsible for your daughter's personality flaws is absurd. While parents have some minor influence on personality in these respects, it is stunningly obvious merely from observing siblings and their differences that parents aren't responsible for most personality traits. You can certainly help her deal with her overbearing nature, defensiveness, and whatnot. And there's of course the possibility that you're responsible in some way. But it's more likely that you're not. Help her with these things, but don't blame yourself and don't let people like frogan blame you.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 1:04 PM on March 23, 2007

frogan's assertion that you are responsible for your daughter's personality flaws is absurd.

Bugger off, ye troll. There's a difference between personality and behavior. Personality is character, thoughts and feelings. Behavior is "overbearing, plays the victim, and tacky little brat." Personality can take the nature vs. nurture debate. Behavior is something learned.
posted by frogan at 1:11 PM on March 23, 2007

Okay, then: frogan's assertion that you are responsible for your daughter's behavior is absurd. Her behavior may be the product of her personality. If so, you can help her learn to behave differently. But you probably didn't teach her to act this way. frogan's armchair analysis of your child-raising choices is absurd, arrogant, insulting, and simple-minded. Not to mention he misuses the word troll. You're well advised to ignore him.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 1:33 PM on March 23, 2007

Thanks, Ethereal. I appreciate your comment, but I try not to take any of it personally.

If I were describing my daughter's personality, I'd say she's high-strung, sensitive and intense. She's also very bright, funny, thoughtful and kind. I don't want to, and doubt that I could, change any of that.

On the other hand, I appreciate the advice regarding not allowing her to be rewarded for bratty behavior and the reminder that I need to model good behavior. Nothing wrong with that.

I've told her that when her friends are aggravating her by telling secrets in her presence to give them a "whatever" and go about her business because they like to see her upset. She responds, "If they're my friends, why do they want to see me upset?" which I agree is a good question. Then I say something like "Maybe they're really not good friends," but at this point, she doesn't want to hear that. She wants them to be good friends.

All of which led to my original post this morning and the many thoughtful replies.
posted by BluGnu at 1:46 PM on March 23, 2007

"I appreciate the advice regarding not allowing her to be rewarded for bratty behavior and the reminder that I need to model good behavior. Nothing wrong with that."

No. But being overbearing and defensive seems to me to be most likely a function of her being "high-strung, sensitive, and intense". I'd guess that you, as a parent, can help shape her tendencies to something somewhat more socially acceptable, but there's real limits to your influence. These things are well within the boundaries of normal human behavior. If it were possible to train children to grow into well-adjusted, very socially secure and adept adults, then we'd have stumbled upon the formula long ago. Some things you can help with, but you can't cure. Rather, lots of things.

You should try and help her with the things within herself that cause her trouble. And one of the ways you do that is to not positively reinforce those things. But that's a long way from it is because you are instilling these behaviors into her, which is what frogan claimed. Not only is it very inappropriate for someone else to make claims about a parent in this fashion (over the internet, based upon a few sentences, no less), and not only is it most likely untrue, but when a parent takes on such an all-encompassing responsibility for their child's behavior and, as frogan asserts, the course of their entire lives, then they are doing themselves and their child a disservice. You don't have that level of influence and if you think you do, you'll both be castigating yourself for supposed failures which aren't, and you'll be fighting never-ending battles that usually end unsatisfactorily.

The very best thing that can happen to your daughter in this situation is for her to manage to find other friends. How she comes to the point of having the courage and self-confidence to do so is the tricky part. Like so many things in our lives where we learn more about ourselves and how to interact with others, there's a good deal of serendipity involved. It may be as much a matter of other friends becoming available—in her path so to speak—as it is her courage and self-confidence to make that change. But having done so, she'll feel a much greater sense of personal security. Right now, she's trapped within that triangle of social regard. And suffering for it.

But the serendipity part of what I'm saying might be important. You might be able to help that along, somehow. Maybe not. Maybe the teacher can. But it seems to me that the best thing you can do is to help her acquire the social skills to be resiliant in the face of her friends' mistreatment and the self-confidence to make new friends if that is necessary. Her lack of resiliency may very well be a product of her overbearing and defensive behavior and helping her find alternative ways to respond to those situations which trigger such behaviors is without a doubt something you can do which would help her.

All that said, again I think it's important to keep in mind realistic limits about how much you can both alter her behavior and alter her social environment. You may find one or both things extremely challenging. Or perhaps there are some ways in which you can easily affect change and you'd best identify and concentrate on those. I don't know. Only you are in a good position to make judgments about any of this.

I'm not a parent, but I was a sort of alternate parent to my younger sister, who is ten years my junior. She went through a period right at the end of elementary school into middle-school where her social situation became difficult and she reacted in ways that worsened it. She was very unhappy. This broke my heart and I empathize strongly with any parent going through the same sort of thing. Which is to say, a great many parents. I'm not really sure that learning how to avoid self-defeating behavior is any easier or different—or, more to the point, possibly taught—at the age of eight than it is at eighteen or twenty-eight. A lot of times these sorts of things are personal breakthroughs that we grope to on our own and to which no one can lead us.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 2:29 PM on March 23, 2007

I have two girls whose personalities could not be any more different from each other (my youngest sounds much like your girl, BluGnu). Yet, both had the same parents and we used pretty much the same approach with both. I'm a firm believer in the theory that personality is something you're born with, and it profoundly affects your behavior.

Her searching for reasons and strategies in her friendships is a testament to her sensitivity and intelligence. She's trying to figure out the secret formula to making her friends act the way that she wants them to act. What she will figure out eventually is how to sharpen her radar to recognize a good friend more quickly, rather than get hurt when she's invested time into the relationship. You can help her just by what you're doing - helping her analyze and puzzle out the answers to her questions. Eventually she'll realize that there are some people that it's just best to stay away from.

I'm actually doing that now (phase two I guess) with my older daughter re:boyfriends. So you see, it never ends!
posted by Flakypastry at 2:31 PM on March 23, 2007

I gave my 9-year old daughter a copy of A Smart Girl's Guide to Friendship Troubles last year. She really likes it because it has advice from other girls her age about how to handle stuff like this. It also made her feel better to know that other girls are having the same problems. The book is aimed at the 9-12 age group so you would probably want to have a look at it first before giving it to your daughter.
posted by atropos at 4:08 PM on March 23, 2007

Second that book! It's from the American Girl line and is really well-written and age appropriate. Good one to read together and talk about the scenarios.
posted by pineapple at 4:20 PM on March 23, 2007

I remember my fourth-grade friendship woes like they were yesterday. Listen to your daughter and draw her out. While it certainly would be great for her to be able to deal with this herself, I was a high-strung, sensitive, perfectionist type and I could not take the harassment my so-called friends were dealing out. Eventually I tearfully asked my mom if I could go to another school and she got involved right away. The school counselor reprimanded my former friend and made it clear we weren't to communicate any more. And, you know what? We didn't. We stopped cold. I don't remember what punishment was on the table but it was for both of us, I guess so that if she decided to bug me anyway I at least wouldn't read things she wrote to me or try to respond to her insults. This also forced me to try to make new friends as I couldn't be around her and she was still friends with all my other friends.

My life got better after that, but I still feel like the constant torture for weeks on end from people I once loved like sisters affected me profoundly. She turned my entire circle of friends against me. Some kids are equipped to deal with that, but I wasn't, and I didn't automatically grow a pair and become supergirl in the face of adversity. I needed help, because I just didn't know what the hell to do or how to make her stop, and if your daughter does too, you should make sure she gets it. These are formative life experiences and they created real changes in my personality, some of which I'm not happy about.

Her teacher may not be aware of what's going on. My friends and I were not in the same class so all the pertinent exchanges went on during recess and lunch. While a really observant teacher might have noticed I was weird and upset all the time, I was a quiet kid anyway.

Only you know your daughter, and I think she'll make it clear if she needs you to step in. If she does, I wouldn't hesitate.
posted by crinklebat at 4:31 PM on March 23, 2007

Not sure if I should recommend this, but Cat's Eye, by Margaret Atwood, is a great novel about this kind of thing, and how a nice, sensitive, intelligent child can be affected profoundly by it.

I think only children and eldests are more vulnerable to this king of thing because they haven't experienced this sophisticated but also absurd power-play at home, where everyone is a rational adult.

Oh and I'm with eb on the issue of your responsibility for your daughter's personality. Don't let comments like frogan's derail you into thinking it's about you, because it's really not. My own mother takes full responsibility for all my character flaws, and it's a horrible double whammy. "You're flawed! That's my fault because i'm your mother! The problem is really mine!". Cue much guilt and anger on my part.
posted by tiny crocodile at 5:27 PM on March 23, 2007

her friends are aggravating her by telling secrets in her presence... because they like to see her upset. She responds, "If they're my friends, why do they want to see me upset?" which I agree is a good question.

Sounds to me like they're ganging up against her -- why do they want to do that? Them wanting to make her mad, could it relate to how she sometimes gets bratty to get her own way? Are they proving (to her, to themselves) that even if she wants to be overbearing, they still won't do what she wants?

Of course she's feeling frustrated she can't make them stop doing certain things or start doing others. Welcome her to real life and every relationship problem ever. What about teaching her some of those communication formulas that respect their right to do whatever they want, while communicating about how it makes her feel and how she's going to deal with that? Even if she doesn't say it to them, just getting clear with her about what she can/can't control, that she should tell them how she feels and make requests rather than tell them what to do, etc., will serve her well over time. "When you tell secrets, I feel left out of the fun, and I feel sad because I think you guys don't want me to be part of your group. Could you please not leave me out of the secrets? If you want to keep doing it, since I don't like feeling sad, I'll go hang out with some other people. But I'd rather stay here with you."
posted by salvia at 7:02 PM on March 23, 2007

Just wanted to say that I have a daughter who is 8 and sounds a lot like your girl. She and her best friend have this on-again, off-again dynamic even when it's only the two of them. They're both pretty stubborn and overly dramatic at times. Most of the time, if the argument doesn't blow over within a day, they give each other some time off and play with other friends for a few days. That's seems to help. Luckily, they both have other people to spend time with.

I also wanted to thank folks for the good advice and book recommendations given here. I'm really not looking forward to those teen years.
posted by lilywing13 at 8:02 PM on April 3, 2007