Help me understand what happened?
December 17, 2023 10:47 PM Subscribe
Is my friend just setting a boundary with me in other words?
To me, I think that is what she did. She doesn't want to here me vent anymore about my toxic living situation. She is giving lots of unasked for advice and judgments when I said "I'm just venting."
My friend has set this boundary with other friends before. Sort of an ultimatum. If you don't get out of this toxic situation that's on you, but I'm not going to hear you vent about it anymore.
She didn't set the boundary with me. I just basically told her I had to stop the texting and step away and asked "it sounds like it is hard for you to hear me vent?" And she said "I think so."
I think she had reached her limit of hearing about it. But I'm super resentful because as you will see in past questions, we have had lots of conversations and lots of support for each other. I'm resentful though because I have helped her a lot and tried to change my ways and instead would find support here or my therapist and hold my tongue with her. And now all of a sudden, my friend can't be a listening ear for me.
I also think we have different values, different backgrounds where now this is the chasm where they can't hold any discomfort for me because she just wants me to move out no matter that I told her I'm working on saving money. I don't want to move out into a shitty apartment again. I need certain things. She has a special interest in pushing her friends to stop being around abusers and she doesn't realize her privilege at all when she thinks it's so easy. The situation I'm in is toxic because my parents are the type of people who haven't worked on their own shit. I know I'm going to move out. I literally have no money to do so tomorrow. I'm just hurt and could have used her support. Instead she's basically acting how my parents act by telling me how to run my life.
She's judging me for wanting to stay to save money and wait for a situation where I can either rent or buy a house. I said I need a yard and I need a washer and dryer in house. I lived for years in an apartment with neither and I won't go back especially with a kid! She was like " I find it weird that you're comparing deep emotional abuse to having to go to a playground or laundry room" meaning she doesn't understand at all what I value. What I need in my life to have a basic decent life.
Basically I'm done with this friendship. This was a newer friendship forged through our kids and now that our kids are no longer in preschool together and we stopped doing playdates, and now we can't even have a normal grownup conversation, I should cut it off.
It does sadden me because we were like family for a bit.
To me, I think that is what she did. She doesn't want to here me vent anymore about my toxic living situation. She is giving lots of unasked for advice and judgments when I said "I'm just venting."
My friend has set this boundary with other friends before. Sort of an ultimatum. If you don't get out of this toxic situation that's on you, but I'm not going to hear you vent about it anymore.
She didn't set the boundary with me. I just basically told her I had to stop the texting and step away and asked "it sounds like it is hard for you to hear me vent?" And she said "I think so."
I think she had reached her limit of hearing about it. But I'm super resentful because as you will see in past questions, we have had lots of conversations and lots of support for each other. I'm resentful though because I have helped her a lot and tried to change my ways and instead would find support here or my therapist and hold my tongue with her. And now all of a sudden, my friend can't be a listening ear for me.
I also think we have different values, different backgrounds where now this is the chasm where they can't hold any discomfort for me because she just wants me to move out no matter that I told her I'm working on saving money. I don't want to move out into a shitty apartment again. I need certain things. She has a special interest in pushing her friends to stop being around abusers and she doesn't realize her privilege at all when she thinks it's so easy. The situation I'm in is toxic because my parents are the type of people who haven't worked on their own shit. I know I'm going to move out. I literally have no money to do so tomorrow. I'm just hurt and could have used her support. Instead she's basically acting how my parents act by telling me how to run my life.
She's judging me for wanting to stay to save money and wait for a situation where I can either rent or buy a house. I said I need a yard and I need a washer and dryer in house. I lived for years in an apartment with neither and I won't go back especially with a kid! She was like " I find it weird that you're comparing deep emotional abuse to having to go to a playground or laundry room" meaning she doesn't understand at all what I value. What I need in my life to have a basic decent life.
Basically I'm done with this friendship. This was a newer friendship forged through our kids and now that our kids are no longer in preschool together and we stopped doing playdates, and now we can't even have a normal grownup conversation, I should cut it off.
It does sadden me because we were like family for a bit.
It sounds like you want us to litigate the issue with your friend for you, and I don't think we're capable of doing that. The extra details you provided do not strike me as especially important to your central question of whether or not the friend was setting a boundary; they seem to be included because you want us to take your side.
The best thing I can do to support you in these circumstances is tell you that your needs are your needs: you don't need to litigate for them in conversation and you don't need to convince anyone. When I say "needs," I mean both what you're looking for in your next living situation and what you're looking for from friends. If this friend is not able to support you in the way you need her to, then yes, I would stop venting to her.
You have different priorities: it sounds like she sees "getting out of your current situation" as most important (therefore, to her, your refusal to do so may be tantamount to "refusing to solve your own problems"), but to you, it sounds like the specific traits of the future home are more important than the stress and drama of dealing with your parents. And it doesn't sound like your friend really understands that.
Therefore, if you stop talking to her about your unhappiness related to living with your parents, you'll probably both be happier.
posted by verbminx at 12:39 AM on December 18, 2023 [25 favorites]
The best thing I can do to support you in these circumstances is tell you that your needs are your needs: you don't need to litigate for them in conversation and you don't need to convince anyone. When I say "needs," I mean both what you're looking for in your next living situation and what you're looking for from friends. If this friend is not able to support you in the way you need her to, then yes, I would stop venting to her.
You have different priorities: it sounds like she sees "getting out of your current situation" as most important (therefore, to her, your refusal to do so may be tantamount to "refusing to solve your own problems"), but to you, it sounds like the specific traits of the future home are more important than the stress and drama of dealing with your parents. And it doesn't sound like your friend really understands that.
Therefore, if you stop talking to her about your unhappiness related to living with your parents, you'll probably both be happier.
posted by verbminx at 12:39 AM on December 18, 2023 [25 favorites]
Maybe I am missing something, but I don't relate to the issue as you describe it. Admittedly, I don't know your past questions you expect us to be familiar with. It seems to me that if you just want to vent and you don't want advice or judgement, and you know this friend has set boundaries with others, your expectations exceed their comfort zone. If you just want to vent, sometimes just keeping a journal works best to prevent judgement and advice.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:42 AM on December 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:42 AM on December 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
Is this the same friend you talked about in your question, "How to stop trying to control things out of my control?", who has a child with mental health issues? That question is an interesting mirror of this one, since there you say things like "it's driving me nuts to hear about it with no end in sight!"
Whether or not it's the same friend, perhaps it will give you some perspective if you compare how you yourself react when faced with a friend who wants to vent and has different ideas of how to solve their problem than you do. This person didn't tell you to stop venting, i.e. they did not draw a boundary. Instead, you asked a leading question which to me would have felt like being put in a corner. Would you rather they lie? They were even tentative, not aggressive, while being honest: "I think so". Why does that reflect so negatively on them?
posted by guessthis at 2:18 AM on December 18, 2023 [20 favorites]
Whether or not it's the same friend, perhaps it will give you some perspective if you compare how you yourself react when faced with a friend who wants to vent and has different ideas of how to solve their problem than you do. This person didn't tell you to stop venting, i.e. they did not draw a boundary. Instead, you asked a leading question which to me would have felt like being put in a corner. Would you rather they lie? They were even tentative, not aggressive, while being honest: "I think so". Why does that reflect so negatively on them?
posted by guessthis at 2:18 AM on December 18, 2023 [20 favorites]
Fwiw I would lose my mind listening to someone venting about what you describe as an abusive situation with a child involved. I wouldn't be able to remain friends if the only thing standing between your kids and safety was a washing machine, so maybe take the deal and talk about other things if you'd like to maintain the friendship for the future.
posted by Iteki at 2:35 AM on December 18, 2023 [53 favorites]
posted by Iteki at 2:35 AM on December 18, 2023 [53 favorites]
It sounds as though your friend’s boundary is that she can’t listen to you venting about a situation where you choose laundry facilities and a yard over removing your child and yourself from an abusive situation.
As it happens, I would share that boundary. But even if you disagree with her boundary, she’s entitled to enforce it.
And you’re entitled to decide whether you would rather keep her friendship with that boundary in place, or walk away. Either is fine, if that’s what you’re asking. But it’s probably not good for your emotional wellbeing (or hers) to stay in a friendship whilst, as you say, you’re super resentful.
posted by JJZByBffqU at 3:16 AM on December 18, 2023 [26 favorites]
As it happens, I would share that boundary. But even if you disagree with her boundary, she’s entitled to enforce it.
And you’re entitled to decide whether you would rather keep her friendship with that boundary in place, or walk away. Either is fine, if that’s what you’re asking. But it’s probably not good for your emotional wellbeing (or hers) to stay in a friendship whilst, as you say, you’re super resentful.
posted by JJZByBffqU at 3:16 AM on December 18, 2023 [26 favorites]
No, it doesn’t sound like your friend set a boundary. It sounds like you forced the issue by asking point blank if it was hard to hear, and she respected your friendship enough to tell you the truth in response even though you had asked her one of those questions that’s kind of a shitty trap with no good options for response.
It’s okay for you to not want to be in this friendship. It’s okay for her to be near the end of her rope with listening to you complain about the same thing endlessly. You can end the friendship over this if you want. Neither of you has to be right or wrong or the designated Bad Guy for you to simply no longer be the right friends for each other in the current stage of your lives.
I do think that because life is long and friends are hard to find and worth putting some effort into, you might try dialing back the friendship to something less like a support group, treating her as a more casual acquaintance for a while, taking your housing woes elsewhere, and seeing how that goes. But if you’re just Done, that is what it is.
posted by Stacey at 4:14 AM on December 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
It’s okay for you to not want to be in this friendship. It’s okay for her to be near the end of her rope with listening to you complain about the same thing endlessly. You can end the friendship over this if you want. Neither of you has to be right or wrong or the designated Bad Guy for you to simply no longer be the right friends for each other in the current stage of your lives.
I do think that because life is long and friends are hard to find and worth putting some effort into, you might try dialing back the friendship to something less like a support group, treating her as a more casual acquaintance for a while, taking your housing woes elsewhere, and seeing how that goes. But if you’re just Done, that is what it is.
posted by Stacey at 4:14 AM on December 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
I think there's a chance you're projecting your own feelings about yourself and your situation onto your friend, because you know you'd be frustrated hearing someone who wasn't you simultaneously frame their living condition as toxic (i.e., poison! killing you!), but just not toxic enough to be worse than not having a yard or a washing machine.
And maybe that's the answer. If it's less toxic than no-yard/no-machine, then maybe it's not so toxic after all. Or maybe it's quite toxic and you're Stockholm Syndroming yourself into using yard/machine/etc. as an excuse to stay in something familiar but terrible. Without any more info, and with a kid involved, I'm more worried about the latter (but if it's the former it's probably worth figuring that out so you can put your venting in better perspective, internally and externally).
posted by nobody at 4:49 AM on December 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
And maybe that's the answer. If it's less toxic than no-yard/no-machine, then maybe it's not so toxic after all. Or maybe it's quite toxic and you're Stockholm Syndroming yourself into using yard/machine/etc. as an excuse to stay in something familiar but terrible. Without any more info, and with a kid involved, I'm more worried about the latter (but if it's the former it's probably worth figuring that out so you can put your venting in better perspective, internally and externally).
posted by nobody at 4:49 AM on December 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
Is my friend just setting a boundary with me in other words?
I'd drop the therapy speak.
You asked her if it was hard to hear and she said yes. You precipitated her honesty, but she was honest with you. She wasn't setting a boundary, she was answering a question.
However it happened, you now have the information you asked for. If I were you, I wouldn't want to make it hard for my friend and I would find other ways to handle the situation (journal, etc.)
posted by warriorqueen at 5:06 AM on December 18, 2023 [26 favorites]
I'd drop the therapy speak.
You asked her if it was hard to hear and she said yes. You precipitated her honesty, but she was honest with you. She wasn't setting a boundary, she was answering a question.
However it happened, you now have the information you asked for. If I were you, I wouldn't want to make it hard for my friend and I would find other ways to handle the situation (journal, etc.)
posted by warriorqueen at 5:06 AM on December 18, 2023 [26 favorites]
Why are you more angry at your friend than your abusers?
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:28 AM on December 18, 2023 [26 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:28 AM on December 18, 2023 [26 favorites]
When you think about what you need to have for a "basic decent life", are good friends a part of your list? Friends who will tell you difficult truths out of concern for the safety of you and your kids, even if they get your anger in return? I sure hope so!
When you're in an abusive situation, it can feel like the whole world is judging you for not doing "the obvious thing" and getting yourself to safety. The judgment feels even harsher when you have kids, like, the whole world seems to be saying "you're a bad parent for exposing your children to abuse". Often, that judgment feels harsher and more oppressive than the abuse itself. It's super painful. So I understand why you feel so defensive and self-protective, and why you may feel as if your friend is actually your enemy when she doesn't collude with your desire to numb yourself to your pain and keep tolerating abuse.
From an outside perspective, she's clearly not your enemy. She seems like a very good friend. Your abusive situation has warped your perception about exactly who you need to cut out of your life. But this is your journey, and only you can live through it. Only you can make your life choices. FWIW I'm sorry you're being abused by your parents. You deserve a much better life than the one you are currently living, by which I mean, a life with better people in it.
posted by MiraK at 5:42 AM on December 18, 2023 [15 favorites]
When you're in an abusive situation, it can feel like the whole world is judging you for not doing "the obvious thing" and getting yourself to safety. The judgment feels even harsher when you have kids, like, the whole world seems to be saying "you're a bad parent for exposing your children to abuse". Often, that judgment feels harsher and more oppressive than the abuse itself. It's super painful. So I understand why you feel so defensive and self-protective, and why you may feel as if your friend is actually your enemy when she doesn't collude with your desire to numb yourself to your pain and keep tolerating abuse.
From an outside perspective, she's clearly not your enemy. She seems like a very good friend. Your abusive situation has warped your perception about exactly who you need to cut out of your life. But this is your journey, and only you can live through it. Only you can make your life choices. FWIW I'm sorry you're being abused by your parents. You deserve a much better life than the one you are currently living, by which I mean, a life with better people in it.
posted by MiraK at 5:42 AM on December 18, 2023 [15 favorites]
I just looked through your old questions and saw that you had once asked about "a middle way" to deal with your abusers, from a non-western cultural lens, because you don't like the idea of simply cutting your abusers out of your life point blank. I responded to that Ask, and reading over my answer now, I really like what I wrote for you there. I believe very strongly in finding our own power so that we can provide inner & outer safety for ourselves - to feel secure enough that we are able to connect gently even with people who act out in mildly/moderately hurtful ways. I believe in staying connected with the people in our lives in a loving, boundaried, self-protective, and inviting way. (I don't think any of these are oxymorons.) I had understood from your Ask that this was also your vision for your own life.
So I'm surprised that you're being so cavalier about cutting this friend out of your life now. What, does your "middle way" only apply to people you share a cultural heritage with? Are others not entitled to your culturally-endowed capacity to understand, empathize, and maintain connections? Why so harsh with your friend when you are seemingly working hard to be balanced towards your abusers?
posted by MiraK at 6:06 AM on December 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
So I'm surprised that you're being so cavalier about cutting this friend out of your life now. What, does your "middle way" only apply to people you share a cultural heritage with? Are others not entitled to your culturally-endowed capacity to understand, empathize, and maintain connections? Why so harsh with your friend when you are seemingly working hard to be balanced towards your abusers?
posted by MiraK at 6:06 AM on December 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
Your living situation sounds dramatic and toxic and when people are in that kind of situation they usually act dramatic and toxic too. For what it’s worth, I agree with what you think your friend thinks - that if your parents are actually abusive, then your priorities of riding out the abuse til you can afford a yard and a washing machine, are incorrect priorities. I’ve lived in places with neither and it’s not that bad, find a place close to a park and laundromat or use the money you saved on a bigger place to pay for laundry service. It sounds to me (admittedly just from this small slice of your self-reporting) that you’re tolerating a lot of drama and toxicity at home, and also replicating it in your dealings with your friend.
(And for what it’s worth, I come from a non-North American immigrant family and have had to deal with extricating myself from a tight knit family that isn’t North American and has strong cultural expectations, so this isn’t just “moving out is easy” advice - I have some understanding of a more entangled cultural context! And still? My advice is, “move out!”)
posted by nouvelle-personne at 6:06 AM on December 18, 2023 [16 favorites]
(And for what it’s worth, I come from a non-North American immigrant family and have had to deal with extricating myself from a tight knit family that isn’t North American and has strong cultural expectations, so this isn’t just “moving out is easy” advice - I have some understanding of a more entangled cultural context! And still? My advice is, “move out!”)
posted by nouvelle-personne at 6:06 AM on December 18, 2023 [16 favorites]
I don't think that constant venting about an intense situation is where the bar for 'normal adult conversation' should be set. It sounds like you know this from firsthand experience, but being on the receiving end of this kind of share is difficult. It's hard to hear in the first place, it's hard to feel helpless, and it's hard to bear witness in the long term without any change, especially when change seems to be within the person's power. You did not mention in your previous post that you had a child. I agree with your friend and others here that getting a child out of an abusive situation--and witnessing their parent being abused is one--should absolutely take precedent over a yard and convenient laundry setup. It's one thing to not have money for the deposit/initial rent, but it sounds like you're wanting her to validate choices and priorities that would trouble a lot of people. Especially someone who knows you and cares about you, especially someone who knows and cares about your kid.
You get to make decisions about your own life and your child's, but I don't think it's fair to be resentful of her for having limits (even if she may be having a hard time articulating them herself). If this is a good friendship otherwise, it's worth trying to shift to connecting over other topics and reserving this one for your time with your therapist, who is trained and more able to receive this kind of story over the long term precisely because of the professional boundaries that are part of that relationship.
posted by wormtales at 7:01 AM on December 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
You get to make decisions about your own life and your child's, but I don't think it's fair to be resentful of her for having limits (even if she may be having a hard time articulating them herself). If this is a good friendship otherwise, it's worth trying to shift to connecting over other topics and reserving this one for your time with your therapist, who is trained and more able to receive this kind of story over the long term precisely because of the professional boundaries that are part of that relationship.
posted by wormtales at 7:01 AM on December 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
You asked friend if they were tired of hearing you vent about your hard life, and they answered in the affirmative.
Whether you break up with this person or not, you should realize friends are allowed to disagree with your life choices. Friends can "agree to disagree" on issues. Friends can choose to not discuss a certain topic. Friendships can also ebb and flow over the years.
It might be worthwhile to flip this and think about how you were doing as a friend to them. No way to know from the question, but does most of your relationship comprise of you talking about your bad housing situation? Hearing someone complain about the same things over and over gets old, do you talk about their life and problems? I have no idea if this friend is overall a good person, but it does seem you are blaming her for your feelings; they obviously want you to be in a better place; it doesn't mean they are judging you.
Again, this person might be a crummy friend. And sometimes friendships are defined by circumstances and end when people move away, get married, etc. . But one version of this story is you are perhaps taking a lot of emotional space in the relationship, and it is all about you and your life challenges. Friend sees them as more immediately solvable than you--that is fine, you are allowed to run your life the way you want. So maybe try to connect with other things--your kids, TV shows, sports, whatever.
Your feelings seem very hurt right now, and you just might not have the bandwidth to deal with friend issues. So maybe take a pause, but don't totally cut this person off. That seems extreme and immature.
(I did not read the other question. Apparently, you find tolerating a bad situation for a while to get to a better one acceptable, I'm not questioning that as part of this response.)
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 8:43 AM on December 18, 2023
Whether you break up with this person or not, you should realize friends are allowed to disagree with your life choices. Friends can "agree to disagree" on issues. Friends can choose to not discuss a certain topic. Friendships can also ebb and flow over the years.
It might be worthwhile to flip this and think about how you were doing as a friend to them. No way to know from the question, but does most of your relationship comprise of you talking about your bad housing situation? Hearing someone complain about the same things over and over gets old, do you talk about their life and problems? I have no idea if this friend is overall a good person, but it does seem you are blaming her for your feelings; they obviously want you to be in a better place; it doesn't mean they are judging you.
Again, this person might be a crummy friend. And sometimes friendships are defined by circumstances and end when people move away, get married, etc. . But one version of this story is you are perhaps taking a lot of emotional space in the relationship, and it is all about you and your life challenges. Friend sees them as more immediately solvable than you--that is fine, you are allowed to run your life the way you want. So maybe try to connect with other things--your kids, TV shows, sports, whatever.
Your feelings seem very hurt right now, and you just might not have the bandwidth to deal with friend issues. So maybe take a pause, but don't totally cut this person off. That seems extreme and immature.
(I did not read the other question. Apparently, you find tolerating a bad situation for a while to get to a better one acceptable, I'm not questioning that as part of this response.)
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 8:43 AM on December 18, 2023
The only suggestion I would make is to try to find out what is going on in your friend’s life right now. Her decision about what she can handle at the moment may have absolutely nothing to do with you.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:56 AM on December 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:56 AM on December 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Even if you have listened a lot, people have varying needs. if she set a bioundary, you invited it, and she was very gentle. Can you switch to I know, more venting about my ridiculous housing, but today's lack of power was egregious or something like that.
Apply for housing assistance. Even if the wait list is 2 years, it's worth applying.
posted by theora55 at 9:11 AM on December 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Apply for housing assistance. Even if the wait list is 2 years, it's worth applying.
posted by theora55 at 9:11 AM on December 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
It is incredibly frustrating to listen to a friend vent about the same issue over and over and over. It would drive me out of my mind.
posted by maryellenreads at 9:18 AM on December 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by maryellenreads at 9:18 AM on December 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think you are quite right. Your friend doesn't have the resources to cope with you venting at her, you picked up the signs of it and asked her point blank - which was the right thing to do - she told you the truth, and you have wisely decided not to vent at her anymore.
And it is also quite understandable that you are sad that you don't have her to vent to and even mildly angry that she can't continue to be supportive.
You are showing good maturity by backing off, and by not acting hostile towards her despite your hurt feelings. It's one thing to feel angry and hurt when there is no one to rescue you, or validate you, and make you feel better. It's another to turn your anger and pain at them and try to force them to going back to being supportive. The first is natural and normal. Turning anger and pain at someone unable to meet your needs would be ineffective and malicious.
Often when we are owed something and the other person cannot meet their debt to us, we have to walk away and wish them well. There is likely to be a grey area here of how much this person owes you, but if she has spent much of the friendship listening to you vent, it appears she has made a good faith effort to repay her debt and make things fair by listening for awhile. Now it's over. Relationships are never fully balanced or fair, because each individual brings different abilities into the relationship.
You say, "Instead she's basically acting how my parents act by telling me how to run my life." So you've observed that her people skills are no good enough to provide you with the support you need, and the efforts she is making are going in the wrong direction. That's good insight. The relationship with her is not good for you either because she's just not able to help, and her efforts to help and listen make you feel worse. Neither of you are having any fun or feeling better after you get together.
Here is the thing: What would be worse than the breakdown of the friendship and the loss of your friend being there listening and validating you? It would be if you continued to pursue her, to vent at her, and thus to see how uncomfortable and unwilling she was to listen to you vent. You'd feel awful if you go back and keep venting at her and see her getting more and more uncomfortable and distressed each time. The last thing you want is to trigger her recoiling and fighting you to make you go away.
So you've made the decision to respect her wishes and stop venting at her - and it appears you don't see anything left of the friendship worth pursuing because venting was what you did. If there is no room in your life for a friendship with her that has no venting in it - then you made the right decision to regard the friendship as over.
Of course it still hurts. But it hurts because the end of a friendship and the loss of a support network hurts. You can't avoid the pain. You're going to have to wait it out, the way you have to wait out a badly sprained ankle. Running back to your friend to try to convince her she is wronging your, or to convince her that she ought to redouble her efforts to support you would be like running around on a sprained ankle. It result in much more pain and a longer convalescence. And since you are smart and know that, you decided the friendship is over.
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:43 AM on December 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
And it is also quite understandable that you are sad that you don't have her to vent to and even mildly angry that she can't continue to be supportive.
You are showing good maturity by backing off, and by not acting hostile towards her despite your hurt feelings. It's one thing to feel angry and hurt when there is no one to rescue you, or validate you, and make you feel better. It's another to turn your anger and pain at them and try to force them to going back to being supportive. The first is natural and normal. Turning anger and pain at someone unable to meet your needs would be ineffective and malicious.
Often when we are owed something and the other person cannot meet their debt to us, we have to walk away and wish them well. There is likely to be a grey area here of how much this person owes you, but if she has spent much of the friendship listening to you vent, it appears she has made a good faith effort to repay her debt and make things fair by listening for awhile. Now it's over. Relationships are never fully balanced or fair, because each individual brings different abilities into the relationship.
You say, "Instead she's basically acting how my parents act by telling me how to run my life." So you've observed that her people skills are no good enough to provide you with the support you need, and the efforts she is making are going in the wrong direction. That's good insight. The relationship with her is not good for you either because she's just not able to help, and her efforts to help and listen make you feel worse. Neither of you are having any fun or feeling better after you get together.
Here is the thing: What would be worse than the breakdown of the friendship and the loss of your friend being there listening and validating you? It would be if you continued to pursue her, to vent at her, and thus to see how uncomfortable and unwilling she was to listen to you vent. You'd feel awful if you go back and keep venting at her and see her getting more and more uncomfortable and distressed each time. The last thing you want is to trigger her recoiling and fighting you to make you go away.
So you've made the decision to respect her wishes and stop venting at her - and it appears you don't see anything left of the friendship worth pursuing because venting was what you did. If there is no room in your life for a friendship with her that has no venting in it - then you made the right decision to regard the friendship as over.
Of course it still hurts. But it hurts because the end of a friendship and the loss of a support network hurts. You can't avoid the pain. You're going to have to wait it out, the way you have to wait out a badly sprained ankle. Running back to your friend to try to convince her she is wronging your, or to convince her that she ought to redouble her efforts to support you would be like running around on a sprained ankle. It result in much more pain and a longer convalescence. And since you are smart and know that, you decided the friendship is over.
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:43 AM on December 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Hi, it sounds like you are at your limit in many respects and that the easiest "solution" to this specific unhappiness is to relinquish the friendship. This earlier question of yours gave me a sense of how stressed you are! I fully understand the urge to just remove sources of stress, especially since you can't currently remove the biggest source of stress. Could you just tell your friend something like "I'm overwhelmed, so I'm gonna hunker down for a bit and deal with my own stuff first. Let's set up a hangout in 2 months?" You don't have to make any grand statements or definitively decide the future of your friendship. This person has been important to you and perhaps can still be an important person to you. Please figure that out later when you are not in 5-alarm crisis mode.
If you want someone to vent to, I encourage you to message me! I am a child of immigrants who has had frustrating conversations with friends who find my relationship with my parents baffling.
Good luck.
posted by spamandkimchi at 9:47 AM on December 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
If you want someone to vent to, I encourage you to message me! I am a child of immigrants who has had frustrating conversations with friends who find my relationship with my parents baffling.
Good luck.
posted by spamandkimchi at 9:47 AM on December 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also based on your earlier question on keeping on top of house / life chores, I think I understand why having an accessible washer dryer is so important to you. Especially with a young kid, laundry can be a huge load (hah). I don't get the sense that your parents are abusive to your kid (rather that you have long-standing toxic dynamics with them), and I do get the sense that you know what are the things that are keeping you from having an utter emotional collapse. Being able to send a kid to the yard to run around while you do the laundry, instead of having that be two separate excursions --- go to the playground in the morning, go home for lunch, then go to the laundromat in the afternoon -- is not a sign that you have crappy priorities.
posted by spamandkimchi at 9:54 AM on December 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by spamandkimchi at 9:54 AM on December 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
I don't think you should cut off your friend for this because I think your friend has valuable perspective that you should consider and her position isn't unreasonable.
You're making a choice to live with, and be financially dependent on, your parents because you want to live in a house and you want to save money. I'm sure the issues you have with them are real, are stressful, and are continuous and I don't want to suggest that they are trivial. But from the point of view of someone who absolutely cannot live with their parents, because the parents are so bad that EG police are called, or major harm is possible on a daily basis - or because the parents are infirm or dead - your position looks like a luxury.
You are getting real support and living in a house you otherwise would not have, even if you don't always get along with your parents. I'm sure you're also getting some other benefits like other adults to socialize with, babysitting, maybe home cooking. Many people don't have that option.
Is this the friend you've written about before who also has strained finances and possibly neurodivergent kids who are acting out at school and one was almost expelled, etc.? I'm guessing your friend probably does not have the financial/housing/daily help that you have from your parents. She is probably in just as bad of a position if not worse and maybe feels like you are biting the hand that feeds you.
If she has been a good friend and you would miss her, I think you should swallow your pride on this one. Apologize and agree to disagree. Cut back on complaining about your folks.
posted by stockpuppet at 12:41 PM on December 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
You're making a choice to live with, and be financially dependent on, your parents because you want to live in a house and you want to save money. I'm sure the issues you have with them are real, are stressful, and are continuous and I don't want to suggest that they are trivial. But from the point of view of someone who absolutely cannot live with their parents, because the parents are so bad that EG police are called, or major harm is possible on a daily basis - or because the parents are infirm or dead - your position looks like a luxury.
You are getting real support and living in a house you otherwise would not have, even if you don't always get along with your parents. I'm sure you're also getting some other benefits like other adults to socialize with, babysitting, maybe home cooking. Many people don't have that option.
Is this the friend you've written about before who also has strained finances and possibly neurodivergent kids who are acting out at school and one was almost expelled, etc.? I'm guessing your friend probably does not have the financial/housing/daily help that you have from your parents. She is probably in just as bad of a position if not worse and maybe feels like you are biting the hand that feeds you.
If she has been a good friend and you would miss her, I think you should swallow your pride on this one. Apologize and agree to disagree. Cut back on complaining about your folks.
posted by stockpuppet at 12:41 PM on December 18, 2023 [8 favorites]
Friendships have seasons. Let it go.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:59 PM on December 18, 2023
posted by DarlingBri at 12:59 PM on December 18, 2023
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It sounds like your friend didn't actually set a boundary, maybe you did? She just continued to offer advice when you said you needed to vent. You know that she isn't very tolerant of listening to your talking about your situation without taking immediate action and you aren't willing to do that (for good reasons). So you decided to cut off the relationship because she wasn't supporting you in the way that you wanted. Your choice.
posted by metahawk at 11:16 PM on December 17, 2023 [19 favorites]