Tips & Tricks for Apathy
May 12, 2020 2:01 PM Subscribe
So I was recently told that people think I look sloppy at work. And I realized they’re right. I take absolutely no care in my appearance. But I’m not better for fashion advice.
The problem I’m having is that yes, they’re right, I look sloppy and I can’t bring myself to care. I know I should want to change, but my whole thought process is one giant “meh”. Even telling myself it impacts my career isn’t enough of a motivating push.
I know therapy is probably the long term answer, but in the meantime, are there any good books, websites, podcasts, etc on curing apathy?
(For the record, Yes I struggle with depression. I am currently on 3 different meds for it and have been on them for years.)
The problem I’m having is that yes, they’re right, I look sloppy and I can’t bring myself to care. I know I should want to change, but my whole thought process is one giant “meh”. Even telling myself it impacts my career isn’t enough of a motivating push.
I know therapy is probably the long term answer, but in the meantime, are there any good books, websites, podcasts, etc on curing apathy?
(For the record, Yes I struggle with depression. I am currently on 3 different meds for it and have been on them for years.)
I've always taken the view that as long as I'm not intruding into your workspace with my smell or leaving bits of me behind in there, the extent to which I choose to groom myself or not is none of your business. This is a stance I thoroughly recommend.
For what it's worth, it's also a stance that my perfume allergy gives me frequent cause to wish were more widely adopted among those unfortunates apparently so insecure as to be unable to leave their houses without the tweaking and the slathering and the gelling and zhooshing.
To the extent that it's been career limiting, the limits have generally been a positive for me; unlike many of my peers I have not had to suffer the brutal and overt exploitation that so often comes with workplaces where dress codes and keeping up appearances are held to be necessary.
Embrace your giant "meh". There's every chance it's completely healthy and appropriate and that it's the prevailing culture that's mentally ill.
posted by flabdablet at 2:22 PM on May 12, 2020 [9 favorites]
For what it's worth, it's also a stance that my perfume allergy gives me frequent cause to wish were more widely adopted among those unfortunates apparently so insecure as to be unable to leave their houses without the tweaking and the slathering and the gelling and zhooshing.
To the extent that it's been career limiting, the limits have generally been a positive for me; unlike many of my peers I have not had to suffer the brutal and overt exploitation that so often comes with workplaces where dress codes and keeping up appearances are held to be necessary.
Embrace your giant "meh". There's every chance it's completely healthy and appropriate and that it's the prevailing culture that's mentally ill.
posted by flabdablet at 2:22 PM on May 12, 2020 [9 favorites]
Best answer: You don’t have to want to dress nicer to do so. Think of it as part of the job. IDK your feelings about your work but even if you feel Meh about certain aspects of your job, you can still do them because it’s part of the job.
posted by Neekee at 2:39 PM on May 12, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by Neekee at 2:39 PM on May 12, 2020 [8 favorites]
Seconding tmdonahue, define a uniform for yourself. This includes grooming.
Pick a low-effort look (or have someone pick it out for you), and purchase enough clothing for 2wks (e.g. 1-2 pairs of pants, 4-7 shirts, 14 undershirts & 14 pairs of underwear, 1 pair of shoes, and a jacket/sweater for cooler weather). Now you only have to do laundry once every 2wks, and getting dressed is mindless.
I wear overalls, undershirt, and 4 western button-ups that I rotate each day.
Then get a low effort hair style - I (male) cut my hair and beard short every ~2-3mo, then just let it grow and repeat. I have woman friends whom I've never seen not in a ponytail, for the same low-effort reasons.
Alas, you still have to shower every day, wear deodorant, brush your teeth etc. as hygiene cannot be as easily minimized. But even there, I've tried. Get a body wash you can use everywhere - face, hair, body. Brush your teeth in the shower (have 2x toothbrush and toothpaste - one set in the shower for morning, one set at the sink for evening).
posted by jpeacock at 2:41 PM on May 12, 2020 [15 favorites]
Pick a low-effort look (or have someone pick it out for you), and purchase enough clothing for 2wks (e.g. 1-2 pairs of pants, 4-7 shirts, 14 undershirts & 14 pairs of underwear, 1 pair of shoes, and a jacket/sweater for cooler weather). Now you only have to do laundry once every 2wks, and getting dressed is mindless.
I wear overalls, undershirt, and 4 western button-ups that I rotate each day.
Then get a low effort hair style - I (male) cut my hair and beard short every ~2-3mo, then just let it grow and repeat. I have woman friends whom I've never seen not in a ponytail, for the same low-effort reasons.
Alas, you still have to shower every day, wear deodorant, brush your teeth etc. as hygiene cannot be as easily minimized. But even there, I've tried. Get a body wash you can use everywhere - face, hair, body. Brush your teeth in the shower (have 2x toothbrush and toothpaste - one set in the shower for morning, one set at the sink for evening).
posted by jpeacock at 2:41 PM on May 12, 2020 [15 favorites]
Think of it this way: You don't wear pajamas to work, right? So obviously some part of you cares about something related to the way you look. If you don't have the 'sloppy' clothes to put on, then what you put on will look better than 'meh.' (using your words here.)
So I'd expand on tmdonahue's advice. Come up with some basics that you don't mind wearing. Ask for a friend's advice - there are lots of people who care about this more than you do. They'll enjoy helping. Get 5-7 work 'uniforms' together and now you can dress yourself each day. You still won't care how you are dressed, but you'll look a bit better to the rest of the world.
I am not an over-dresser by any means, but I really do feel better when I look a bit more put-together. People will take you a bit more seriously, and you may even feel better. I have literally about 10-15 dresses that I wear pretty much day in and day out, they look fine - not sloppy, and they allow me to care less about my clothing than I ever did.
posted by hydra77 at 2:44 PM on May 12, 2020 [5 favorites]
So I'd expand on tmdonahue's advice. Come up with some basics that you don't mind wearing. Ask for a friend's advice - there are lots of people who care about this more than you do. They'll enjoy helping. Get 5-7 work 'uniforms' together and now you can dress yourself each day. You still won't care how you are dressed, but you'll look a bit better to the rest of the world.
I am not an over-dresser by any means, but I really do feel better when I look a bit more put-together. People will take you a bit more seriously, and you may even feel better. I have literally about 10-15 dresses that I wear pretty much day in and day out, they look fine - not sloppy, and they allow me to care less about my clothing than I ever did.
posted by hydra77 at 2:44 PM on May 12, 2020 [5 favorites]
Yeah, think of as a uniform or as protective coloration. Most days, especially at work, I dress just to get people not to think about what I'm wearing. This is more complicated, in an unjust way, for women/femmes, but I've decided I can take the hit of not being perceived as hot as long as I don't take the hit of being perceived as frumpy, sloppy, or inappropriate.
posted by praemunire at 2:47 PM on May 12, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 2:47 PM on May 12, 2020 [3 favorites]
Can you elaborate a little on what they meant by sloppy, or what you think they meant?
Are your clothes wrinkly, stained, etc?
Do you wear makeup? (you most definitely don't have to but this helps understand what their deal is)
Can you tell us vaguely what your career is or any dress expectations for your workplace?
posted by nakedmolerats at 2:50 PM on May 12, 2020 [3 favorites]
Are your clothes wrinkly, stained, etc?
Do you wear makeup? (you most definitely don't have to but this helps understand what their deal is)
Can you tell us vaguely what your career is or any dress expectations for your workplace?
posted by nakedmolerats at 2:50 PM on May 12, 2020 [3 favorites]
What is causing your apathy? Are you getting enough sleep, regular exercise, healthy enough food and water? Do you have friends and social outlets?
Setting that aside and assuming that you may need new clothes: I don't think you have to cure apathy to fix your wardrobe. Especially if you can throw money at it by signing up for something like Stitch Fix or Trunk Club (Stitch Fix returns are less annoying, but I've had better luck with Trunk Club clothes).
Some people find that putting together a uniform really helps, like slacks + tee + cardigan, or comfy jersey dress + leggings, often in a coordinated color pallet so that all the slacks go with all the cardigans, all the leggings go with all the dresses, etc. That takes more time up front but it frees up future you to use less time and energy thinking and caring about clothes.
posted by bunderful at 2:58 PM on May 12, 2020 [2 favorites]
Setting that aside and assuming that you may need new clothes: I don't think you have to cure apathy to fix your wardrobe. Especially if you can throw money at it by signing up for something like Stitch Fix or Trunk Club (Stitch Fix returns are less annoying, but I've had better luck with Trunk Club clothes).
Some people find that putting together a uniform really helps, like slacks + tee + cardigan, or comfy jersey dress + leggings, often in a coordinated color pallet so that all the slacks go with all the cardigans, all the leggings go with all the dresses, etc. That takes more time up front but it frees up future you to use less time and energy thinking and caring about clothes.
posted by bunderful at 2:58 PM on May 12, 2020 [2 favorites]
I will look for detail too but a few more hacks:
Pick a haircut. At your haircut (after lockdown etc), book your next haircut for whatever cycle will keep it neat (5-6 weeks in a lot of cases.)
Keep work shoes at work and do the Mr Rogers thing. They won’t get as many scuffs etc.
Keep a spare clean pressed top at work. Or sheath dress + shoes if you are a woman.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:58 PM on May 12, 2020 [3 favorites]
Pick a haircut. At your haircut (after lockdown etc), book your next haircut for whatever cycle will keep it neat (5-6 weeks in a lot of cases.)
Keep work shoes at work and do the Mr Rogers thing. They won’t get as many scuffs etc.
Keep a spare clean pressed top at work. Or sheath dress + shoes if you are a woman.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:58 PM on May 12, 2020 [3 favorites]
Oh and for shoes/sweaters/blazers/jackets/belts etc., for your work uniform pick either a black/grey palette or a brown/tan palette so that they match (like pick one.) if you are a tights-wearing person this also allows for a single colour of tights.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:01 PM on May 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by warriorqueen at 3:01 PM on May 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I take absolutely no care in my appearance.
As others have pointed out above, unless you're not changing from whatever configuration you slept in, this is not true. I am guessing by the fact that you have a job you take sufficient care to meet some minimum local standard of modesty - if you're in the US I'm guessing you are consistently covering your lower body. I am also guessing that you are not showing up to work topless. These are forms of caring. Your pants did not put themselves on.
Can you identify what you care about that causes you to take these actions? There's been a lot of times in my life where my anxiety and depression were causing me to do something Not Good Enough. It has sometimes been useful for me to try to work out how I was getting to Not Good Enough instead of Absolutely Nothing, and try and build on whatever crumb of motivation I could identify. The kind of change you would like to enact seems more like the places I made that work than the ones I didn't.
Be kind to yourself.
posted by PMdixon at 3:33 PM on May 12, 2020 [22 favorites]
As others have pointed out above, unless you're not changing from whatever configuration you slept in, this is not true. I am guessing by the fact that you have a job you take sufficient care to meet some minimum local standard of modesty - if you're in the US I'm guessing you are consistently covering your lower body. I am also guessing that you are not showing up to work topless. These are forms of caring. Your pants did not put themselves on.
Can you identify what you care about that causes you to take these actions? There's been a lot of times in my life where my anxiety and depression were causing me to do something Not Good Enough. It has sometimes been useful for me to try to work out how I was getting to Not Good Enough instead of Absolutely Nothing, and try and build on whatever crumb of motivation I could identify. The kind of change you would like to enact seems more like the places I made that work than the ones I didn't.
Be kind to yourself.
posted by PMdixon at 3:33 PM on May 12, 2020 [22 favorites]
Not caring about your appearance doesn’t make you apathetic. Some people don’t care about food. Or music. Or theater. Or sports. It’s ok to not care about fashion or style. It’s also ok to not care very much about your career. As long as you have a few things you do care about! Like your cat or your nephew or hiking or books.
I think the cure is to have a super simple “uniform” that looks put together, have ~5 outfits that fit it, and wear the same thing every week. Nail down a low-effort, clean-cut hairstyle and you’ll be golden.
posted by amaire at 4:25 PM on May 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
I think the cure is to have a super simple “uniform” that looks put together, have ~5 outfits that fit it, and wear the same thing every week. Nail down a low-effort, clean-cut hairstyle and you’ll be golden.
posted by amaire at 4:25 PM on May 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
my very best trick for apathy is to try to convince myself that I'm not doing it for current me, because current me doesn't care and doesn't want to.
So I say "well, future euphoria066 would benefit from this task you have to do, so do it for her" and I usually can convince myself to do it - being sorting laundry or setting up coffee on a timer for the morning or whatever other boring stuff I have trouble motivating myself for, but for you - getting dressed slightly nicer! Or perhaps picking out clothes!
I do think everyone's suggestion of making it into like, one big task you need to do once (pick out a uniform, buy the goods, set it up) instead of daily decisions will help. I can't ever get it together to decide what is for dinner and grocery shop, and then I always end up with takeout, but one day I managed to motivate myself into making a meal plan for a MONTH and then setting up recurring grocery deliveries for the fresh ingredients, and buying the protein in frozen bulk, and now I'm actually pretty good at doing it because all the worst work is already done!
posted by euphoria066 at 4:28 PM on May 12, 2020 [4 favorites]
So I say "well, future euphoria066 would benefit from this task you have to do, so do it for her" and I usually can convince myself to do it - being sorting laundry or setting up coffee on a timer for the morning or whatever other boring stuff I have trouble motivating myself for, but for you - getting dressed slightly nicer! Or perhaps picking out clothes!
I do think everyone's suggestion of making it into like, one big task you need to do once (pick out a uniform, buy the goods, set it up) instead of daily decisions will help. I can't ever get it together to decide what is for dinner and grocery shop, and then I always end up with takeout, but one day I managed to motivate myself into making a meal plan for a MONTH and then setting up recurring grocery deliveries for the fresh ingredients, and buying the protein in frozen bulk, and now I'm actually pretty good at doing it because all the worst work is already done!
posted by euphoria066 at 4:28 PM on May 12, 2020 [4 favorites]
So I was recently told that people think I look sloppy at work. And I realized they’re right. I take absolutely no care in my appearance. But I’m not better for fashion advice
Honestly "sloppy" at work is not a comment on your fashion, it's your grooming. Clothing needs to be free of holes, be clean, smell fresh and not strongly perfumed or of old sweat (some fabrics do even after washing), fit moderately well for the activity you are doing, not be revealing, and your skin, nails and hair need to be visibly clean and neat.
I would advise you to remove the caring part from the equation. Pick a single appropriate outfit that is comfortable enough you want to wear it- this is KEY, if your clothes are too small or your hate stiff clothing or you overheat or are too cold - then of course you hate dressing for work! I hate button downs and refuse to wear them, for example. I like soft clothes. Find something comfortable and buy enough copies of everything that you do not need to rewear dirty clothes for 10 days. Stick to a few complimentary colors: navy, tan, brown and green + brown shoes is good for most people. Buy machine washable clothes and do laundry on the same day each week. In general set "clothes" to auto pilot as much as possible.
Keep in mind that clean clothing includes hats, shoes, sandals, accessories etc. Ball caps are the worst offenders here followed by shoes.
posted by fshgrl at 4:39 PM on May 12, 2020 [5 favorites]
Honestly "sloppy" at work is not a comment on your fashion, it's your grooming. Clothing needs to be free of holes, be clean, smell fresh and not strongly perfumed or of old sweat (some fabrics do even after washing), fit moderately well for the activity you are doing, not be revealing, and your skin, nails and hair need to be visibly clean and neat.
I would advise you to remove the caring part from the equation. Pick a single appropriate outfit that is comfortable enough you want to wear it- this is KEY, if your clothes are too small or your hate stiff clothing or you overheat or are too cold - then of course you hate dressing for work! I hate button downs and refuse to wear them, for example. I like soft clothes. Find something comfortable and buy enough copies of everything that you do not need to rewear dirty clothes for 10 days. Stick to a few complimentary colors: navy, tan, brown and green + brown shoes is good for most people. Buy machine washable clothes and do laundry on the same day each week. In general set "clothes" to auto pilot as much as possible.
Keep in mind that clean clothing includes hats, shoes, sandals, accessories etc. Ball caps are the worst offenders here followed by shoes.
posted by fshgrl at 4:39 PM on May 12, 2020 [5 favorites]
Work uniform, definitely. I used to wear almost all solid colors - a thin cotton sweater, maybe a v-neck or a sweater vest, with a thin t-shirt under it, just a nicer-quality t-shirt in summer, pants or skirt-with-tights. I only buy colors I'd like to wear, they all go together in color paths - goes with black, goes with gray, goes with navy.
Apathy. Do the things that work for depression, to the extent that you can.
Make a list of things to do every day:
. Take a walk or get some form of exercise.
. If possible, get that exercise outdoors - nature and sunshine are good for depression.
. Take vitamin D.
. Get good nutrition.
. Make mental or written lists of good things about yourself. say one or 2 things out loud every day.
. Listen to good music; it acts directly on your brain.
. Find something good and be grateful and/or a little bit happy about it. The sun came out. Lunch was delicious. That shower felt good.
. Know anybody with a dog or cat or other loving pet? Walking and playing with my dog gives me moments of respite.
If you don't do any of these things, no beating yourself up. Maybe you can do some of them tomorrow.
Read Allie Brosh's Adventures in Depression and Depression Part II. Read the Bloggess' Depression Lies. Sometimes I just keep them open in my browser.
MeFi Wiki There is Help.
Reddit What do you know about depression?
Reddit My Massive List of Depression Resources Part 1.
Depression is a thief that steals your mojo, good luck.
posted by theora55 at 5:29 PM on May 12, 2020 [7 favorites]
Apathy. Do the things that work for depression, to the extent that you can.
Make a list of things to do every day:
. Take a walk or get some form of exercise.
. If possible, get that exercise outdoors - nature and sunshine are good for depression.
. Take vitamin D.
. Get good nutrition.
. Make mental or written lists of good things about yourself. say one or 2 things out loud every day.
. Listen to good music; it acts directly on your brain.
. Find something good and be grateful and/or a little bit happy about it. The sun came out. Lunch was delicious. That shower felt good.
. Know anybody with a dog or cat or other loving pet? Walking and playing with my dog gives me moments of respite.
If you don't do any of these things, no beating yourself up. Maybe you can do some of them tomorrow.
Read Allie Brosh's Adventures in Depression and Depression Part II. Read the Bloggess' Depression Lies. Sometimes I just keep them open in my browser.
MeFi Wiki There is Help.
Reddit What do you know about depression?
Reddit My Massive List of Depression Resources Part 1.
Depression is a thief that steals your mojo, good luck.
posted by theora55 at 5:29 PM on May 12, 2020 [7 favorites]
Best answer: I am perhaps reading too much into your situation from my own baggage, but I think in the longer term it's probably worth your while to understand the root of your "not caring" about your appearance. I'm sure that depression has a lot to do with it, but as others have pointed out, obviously you do care at least a little -- and it's potentially informative to ask why your depression manifests in this way. Why do you end up not caring about your appearance but still care about whatever else you still care about? Why are you depressed in the first place?
My baggage: for years and years I told myself that I didn't care about my appearance at work - I even used words like "it's all a big 'meh.'" I wore jeans and t-shirts and aggressively fought implications that I should dress up more. I saw myself as fighting superficial standards and wanted people to notice my performance, not my appearance. Etc. And while I think there's a gem of truth in some of that (many of the inferences people make on the basis of presentation are deeply silly) in my case all of that was just window dressing hiding the underlying truth -- which is that I'm transgender and I found the appearance-based standards for women deeply threatening and alienating. Even contemplating them made me feel awful and dissociative and want to puke, so I simply refused to contemplate them and told myself I was above all of that.
Having started to come to terms with being trans, it turns out suddenly that I like taking care with my appearance! I like dressing well! It's just that "dressing well" means a wardrobe and a style that I had previously denied myself -- crisp button shirts, sharp pants, boots, ties, smooth masculine haircut. Suddenly dressing myself is a positive pleasure rather than a burden.
I'm not saying that you're trans! Probably for you the psychological mechanism is pretty different. But what I'm saying is that there might be something deeper there of some sort, and it's probably worth figuring out what it is. Almost nobody is aggressively "meh" about something to the extent that it hurts things that they do care about (like their career) without some good psychological reason. See if you can figure that reason out. Good luck.
posted by forza at 5:49 PM on May 12, 2020 [22 favorites]
My baggage: for years and years I told myself that I didn't care about my appearance at work - I even used words like "it's all a big 'meh.'" I wore jeans and t-shirts and aggressively fought implications that I should dress up more. I saw myself as fighting superficial standards and wanted people to notice my performance, not my appearance. Etc. And while I think there's a gem of truth in some of that (many of the inferences people make on the basis of presentation are deeply silly) in my case all of that was just window dressing hiding the underlying truth -- which is that I'm transgender and I found the appearance-based standards for women deeply threatening and alienating. Even contemplating them made me feel awful and dissociative and want to puke, so I simply refused to contemplate them and told myself I was above all of that.
Having started to come to terms with being trans, it turns out suddenly that I like taking care with my appearance! I like dressing well! It's just that "dressing well" means a wardrobe and a style that I had previously denied myself -- crisp button shirts, sharp pants, boots, ties, smooth masculine haircut. Suddenly dressing myself is a positive pleasure rather than a burden.
I'm not saying that you're trans! Probably for you the psychological mechanism is pretty different. But what I'm saying is that there might be something deeper there of some sort, and it's probably worth figuring out what it is. Almost nobody is aggressively "meh" about something to the extent that it hurts things that they do care about (like their career) without some good psychological reason. See if you can figure that reason out. Good luck.
posted by forza at 5:49 PM on May 12, 2020 [22 favorites]
Response by poster: Can you elaborate a little on what they meant by sloppy, or what you think they meant?
I imagine it's things like wrinkles in my clothes or things either being too big or just a touch too small. I have huge problems with my feet so I have to wear running shoes. I always have my hair in a pony tail, I don't wear makeup.
I work for the federal government of canada as a senior officer so there's a business casual (I think that's right) expectation. For example I wear dress pants and shirts, dresses in the summer that kind of thing but I probably just look wrinkled and not put together.
I've marked a couple best answers that particularly spoke to me, but thank you all for your advice so far.
posted by aclevername at 6:29 PM on May 12, 2020 [5 favorites]
I imagine it's things like wrinkles in my clothes or things either being too big or just a touch too small. I have huge problems with my feet so I have to wear running shoes. I always have my hair in a pony tail, I don't wear makeup.
I work for the federal government of canada as a senior officer so there's a business casual (I think that's right) expectation. For example I wear dress pants and shirts, dresses in the summer that kind of thing but I probably just look wrinkled and not put together.
I've marked a couple best answers that particularly spoke to me, but thank you all for your advice so far.
posted by aclevername at 6:29 PM on May 12, 2020 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Oh and while I'm not trans, this description is pretty spot on. I mean I don't wear jeans and tshrts to work but you get the point.
My baggage: for years and years I told myself that I didn't care about my appearance at work - I even used words like "it's all a big 'meh.'" I wore jeans and t-shirts and aggressively fought implications that I should dress up more. I saw myself as fighting superficial standards and wanted people to notice my performance, not my appearance. Etc.
posted by aclevername at 6:34 PM on May 12, 2020 [2 favorites]
My baggage: for years and years I told myself that I didn't care about my appearance at work - I even used words like "it's all a big 'meh.'" I wore jeans and t-shirts and aggressively fought implications that I should dress up more. I saw myself as fighting superficial standards and wanted people to notice my performance, not my appearance. Etc.
posted by aclevername at 6:34 PM on May 12, 2020 [2 favorites]
Re things being the wrong size - at some times in my life I’ve changed sizes, to the point that some clothes that used to fit no longer do. And what helps me is to just forgive myself and move forward with my current shape. Like, go through a drawer and if it doesn’t fit you today then either it gets donated or if it has sentimental value, it get put in a box of treasured items to be put away somewhere. If it doesn’t fit, get it out of your way. Same thing if it’s stained or torn.
I agree with those saying you don’t have to want to do the thing to do it. I’m a not-particularly-feminine woman who doesn’t like to dress up much for work but people have expectations and part of the job is to meet the dress code, spoken and unspoken. That’s just part of the deal in a workplace. My strategy is to have a mental checklist. Cardigan, v-neck tee, slacks, reasonable shoes, one accessory (scarf or piece of jewelry), mascara in my purse so if I am not up to putting it on at home I can hit the ladies room first thing at work. Similar checklist for grooming basics. Sometimes I watch other women in the workplace who seem to have it together and think about what’s on their checklist that’s not on mine.
Also doing as much as possible the night before has carried me through some tough times. Lay out your clothes ahead of time - get some sort of organizer and lay them out once a week if that helps. Maybe Wednesday morning you doesn’t care about whether anything matches or fits, but maybe Sunday afternoon you has a little extra mental energy and can make those decisions for you ahead of time.
Also since your question really seemed to be about apathy - some depression meds have made me more apathetic than others. If you feel like you are too apathetic and it’s causing problems, maybe share those concerns with whoever is managing your meds.
posted by beandip at 7:36 PM on May 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
I agree with those saying you don’t have to want to do the thing to do it. I’m a not-particularly-feminine woman who doesn’t like to dress up much for work but people have expectations and part of the job is to meet the dress code, spoken and unspoken. That’s just part of the deal in a workplace. My strategy is to have a mental checklist. Cardigan, v-neck tee, slacks, reasonable shoes, one accessory (scarf or piece of jewelry), mascara in my purse so if I am not up to putting it on at home I can hit the ladies room first thing at work. Similar checklist for grooming basics. Sometimes I watch other women in the workplace who seem to have it together and think about what’s on their checklist that’s not on mine.
Also doing as much as possible the night before has carried me through some tough times. Lay out your clothes ahead of time - get some sort of organizer and lay them out once a week if that helps. Maybe Wednesday morning you doesn’t care about whether anything matches or fits, but maybe Sunday afternoon you has a little extra mental energy and can make those decisions for you ahead of time.
Also since your question really seemed to be about apathy - some depression meds have made me more apathetic than others. If you feel like you are too apathetic and it’s causing problems, maybe share those concerns with whoever is managing your meds.
posted by beandip at 7:36 PM on May 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
Sounds like buying some clothes that fit, in fabric that doesn't wrinkle easily, might help. Almost all of my work clothes fit this description - I wash them in cold water, then put them on the lowest possible dryer setting for about 15 minutes, then hang them up (or lay them out) to dry. I only rarely need to iron my clothes.
Also, some fabrics are more forgiving than others. I had a beloved jersey dress that stuck with me through weight gains and losses and looked nice the whole time.
Something like a knit blazer, jeans if your work permits it and slacks if they don't, plus a tee, might be comfortable and easy. If you have 3-4 knit blazers or cardigans in neutrals, and jeans, then your tees can be just about any color (if you like wearing color).
posted by bunderful at 8:12 PM on May 12, 2020
Also, some fabrics are more forgiving than others. I had a beloved jersey dress that stuck with me through weight gains and losses and looked nice the whole time.
Something like a knit blazer, jeans if your work permits it and slacks if they don't, plus a tee, might be comfortable and easy. If you have 3-4 knit blazers or cardigans in neutrals, and jeans, then your tees can be just about any color (if you like wearing color).
posted by bunderful at 8:12 PM on May 12, 2020
I think that shoes can really make or break an outfit. Wearing running shoes would really bring the tone of an outfit down. I have problem feet as well, but after a lot of research and trial and error, I've been able to find a couple of different work appropriate shoes. It might be worth looking in to.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 10:14 PM on May 12, 2020
posted by kinddieserzeit at 10:14 PM on May 12, 2020
>I saw myself as fighting superficial standards and wanted people to notice my performance, not my appearance.
It is necessary to directly face and dispel these myths. Focusing on physical attractiveness is superficial; focusing on presentation — grooming, clothes — is absolutely not.
Of all the ways we communicate our Self to others, the way we dress and style ourselves is the first, most obvious, and most consistent. We're social creatures, constantly asking "How is Alice doing? Where does she fit in the group? Who does she want to be? Is she trying to impress me, or Bob, or Carol?" It's absurd to think that anyone could answer these questions adequately through actions and speech; we simply don't have enough time to talk with enough depth of conversation to everyone in our wider social circle. Since other people can't judge you only on your performance, we make our selves and our intentions known by dressing and putting our hair according to a particular style.
Alice dresses professionally; Bob always looks hip; Carol wears athleisure whenever she can; Dan loves gaudy clothing and doesn't care who sees; Eve is a slob but always shows up to important meetings looking sharp. We all consciously and subconsciously acknowledge the messages, weak and implicit though they may be, in those choices. They are a language to convey allegiances, interests, intentions, social status, and personal well-being.
There's a naive belief that one can opt out of this social game. I used to think this. But it's plainly false and you need to squash that thought. Everyone is playing this game whether they want to or not, not just because it's baked deep into our primate brains, but because you're still wearing something, and that something still has a connotation. People who think they're opting out are in fact simply saying to everyone around them "I don't like this game you're playing and I think it's dumb and maybe I kind of think you're a little dumb for playing it". Folks may rightly interpret that as a slightly charged statement! It's not wrong of them to judge you accordingly.
Often the desire to opt out is driven by lack of expertise. Dressing well according to most styles is a world of skills. Understanding fit, matching outfits to social contexts, and picking a group to identify with all require investing time, attention, and money. Another common frustration is realizing that you've developed a style for one time and place (e.g. the suburbia of your teens) that doesn't fit where you are now (today's city). But again, there's no opting out, only showing your allegiances and capabilities.
What I'm saying is that maybe you should care because the idea that it doesn't matter is just flat out wrong.
posted by daveliepmann at 11:50 PM on May 12, 2020 [6 favorites]
It is necessary to directly face and dispel these myths. Focusing on physical attractiveness is superficial; focusing on presentation — grooming, clothes — is absolutely not.
Of all the ways we communicate our Self to others, the way we dress and style ourselves is the first, most obvious, and most consistent. We're social creatures, constantly asking "How is Alice doing? Where does she fit in the group? Who does she want to be? Is she trying to impress me, or Bob, or Carol?" It's absurd to think that anyone could answer these questions adequately through actions and speech; we simply don't have enough time to talk with enough depth of conversation to everyone in our wider social circle. Since other people can't judge you only on your performance, we make our selves and our intentions known by dressing and putting our hair according to a particular style.
Alice dresses professionally; Bob always looks hip; Carol wears athleisure whenever she can; Dan loves gaudy clothing and doesn't care who sees; Eve is a slob but always shows up to important meetings looking sharp. We all consciously and subconsciously acknowledge the messages, weak and implicit though they may be, in those choices. They are a language to convey allegiances, interests, intentions, social status, and personal well-being.
There's a naive belief that one can opt out of this social game. I used to think this. But it's plainly false and you need to squash that thought. Everyone is playing this game whether they want to or not, not just because it's baked deep into our primate brains, but because you're still wearing something, and that something still has a connotation. People who think they're opting out are in fact simply saying to everyone around them "I don't like this game you're playing and I think it's dumb and maybe I kind of think you're a little dumb for playing it". Folks may rightly interpret that as a slightly charged statement! It's not wrong of them to judge you accordingly.
Often the desire to opt out is driven by lack of expertise. Dressing well according to most styles is a world of skills. Understanding fit, matching outfits to social contexts, and picking a group to identify with all require investing time, attention, and money. Another common frustration is realizing that you've developed a style for one time and place (e.g. the suburbia of your teens) that doesn't fit where you are now (today's city). But again, there's no opting out, only showing your allegiances and capabilities.
What I'm saying is that maybe you should care because the idea that it doesn't matter is just flat out wrong.
posted by daveliepmann at 11:50 PM on May 12, 2020 [6 favorites]
Ugh, I get it - sometimes I feel like full-guns-blazing, sometimes it's "why does the way I look matter more than the quality of my work". Some low-effort things you can do that give the best bang for the buck appearance-wise for feminine-presenting people:
- Yes to knits and jersey fabric - anything that's soft and follows the lines of the body will be much more forgiving fit-wise. Wraparound dresses if they suit you. Cardigans. You're not supposed to iron them anyway and they don't show wrinkles if you hang them up between wears.
- Get some unstructured blazers. They can make dark jeans and a t-shirt business casual.
- Grooming-wise, it's amazing how just wrapping that ponytail around the elastic and adding like two pins takes it from "couldn't be bothered to do my hair" to "look at my fancy messy bun". Any time anyone tries to talk me into cutting my hair because it's "less bother", I ask them what kind of short hairstyle would require zero product and literally 30 seconds in the morning to look office-ready.
- If you can bring yourself to do one makeup thing, make it eyebrows - you don't have to pluck/thread or otherwise change their shape, just get a cheap brow pencil and kind of scribble in the darkest part of your brows, then run the spoolie/brush end through your brows to smudge it in the right direction. 20 seconds, it reads "I have makeup on" and it stays all day unlike (ugh) lipstick.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 12:25 AM on May 13, 2020 [1 favorite]
- Yes to knits and jersey fabric - anything that's soft and follows the lines of the body will be much more forgiving fit-wise. Wraparound dresses if they suit you. Cardigans. You're not supposed to iron them anyway and they don't show wrinkles if you hang them up between wears.
- Get some unstructured blazers. They can make dark jeans and a t-shirt business casual.
- Grooming-wise, it's amazing how just wrapping that ponytail around the elastic and adding like two pins takes it from "couldn't be bothered to do my hair" to "look at my fancy messy bun". Any time anyone tries to talk me into cutting my hair because it's "less bother", I ask them what kind of short hairstyle would require zero product and literally 30 seconds in the morning to look office-ready.
- If you can bring yourself to do one makeup thing, make it eyebrows - you don't have to pluck/thread or otherwise change their shape, just get a cheap brow pencil and kind of scribble in the darkest part of your brows, then run the spoolie/brush end through your brows to smudge it in the right direction. 20 seconds, it reads "I have makeup on" and it stays all day unlike (ugh) lipstick.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 12:25 AM on May 13, 2020 [1 favorite]
I do not do hair or makeup - 3 daughters will tell you that I know nothing about hairdressers or makeup. It takes too much time - I could be reading "The Economist" in the meantime.
Long hair pinned up - every 3-6 months chop off 20cm. If you can't deal with that, find a good barber and get a crew cut every 3-6 months. If the long crew cut gets in the way, get a good slide to keep it out of your eyes.
"Soap, needle and thread cost little", said my great aunt - dead for more than half a century. If I like an article of clothing - it fits; it has pockets; it is a nice shade of green - I will wash and mend it. Visible mending is now "a thing" - so even if I can't mend it myself, I give the drycleaners a nice contrasting thread and tell them to patch it.
SHOES - good shoes - LEATHER shoes - Rieker, Ziera, etc. If they are good leather shoes, polish them, get them resoled, relined - soak them every 12 months in water for an hour or two so that they return to their shape.
Basic shirts, skirts, etc - and then the scarf, tie, brooch, jewellery. Swap one a day, two if you are enthusiastic.
Get yourself some really good jewellery - check out online auctions and try and lowball something (my emerald earrings, the pearl strands, the ruby earrings) - so that when you wear it, it is a reflection not just of your taste but your ability.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 4:40 AM on May 13, 2020 [1 favorite]
Long hair pinned up - every 3-6 months chop off 20cm. If you can't deal with that, find a good barber and get a crew cut every 3-6 months. If the long crew cut gets in the way, get a good slide to keep it out of your eyes.
"Soap, needle and thread cost little", said my great aunt - dead for more than half a century. If I like an article of clothing - it fits; it has pockets; it is a nice shade of green - I will wash and mend it. Visible mending is now "a thing" - so even if I can't mend it myself, I give the drycleaners a nice contrasting thread and tell them to patch it.
SHOES - good shoes - LEATHER shoes - Rieker, Ziera, etc. If they are good leather shoes, polish them, get them resoled, relined - soak them every 12 months in water for an hour or two so that they return to their shape.
Basic shirts, skirts, etc - and then the scarf, tie, brooch, jewellery. Swap one a day, two if you are enthusiastic.
Get yourself some really good jewellery - check out online auctions and try and lowball something (my emerald earrings, the pearl strands, the ruby earrings) - so that when you wear it, it is a reflection not just of your taste but your ability.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 4:40 AM on May 13, 2020 [1 favorite]
Thanks for the additional info. I'm familiar with the Canadian work and fashion scene, so a bit more advice:
Fit: This is something you can address. For PTSD reasons I spent most of my life not looking in mirrors and only caring that my clothes didn't fall off my body. My #1 advice for this is to start looking in the mirror, especially when you shop/try on clothes you ordered online. Slow your breathing down a lot. Take/order several sizes (where you can return them) and put them on and observe the differences between too big and too small and just right. I was wearing 14s and I started just taking sizes down in with me...I'm between an 8 and rarely a 12. Also sizing is whack, there are geeky reasons for this I won't clutter this post with but if it helps you to geek out on it let me know.
Women's uniform: For your level of position skirts and dresses may be easier to fit and give more professional bang for the buck (like, you can get away with less makeup) and often are more comfortable. Like, a black pencil skirt or a sheath dress read together and often last 4 times as long for less fuss. If not, look for dress slacks that don't wrinkle.
My rule of thumb when dressing for business is to have one structured item on - so a looser pant + top or dress with a structured blazer; an unstructured blazer or cardigan with a structured skirt. Structure means it keeps its shape when you throw it on the bed basically.
Blazers help a lot, both structured and unstructured. They feel fussy until you are used to them. I hate Banana Republic with passion but in the After Pandemic times, it is worth trying theirs on to get a feel for them. Where I found my favourite two was at Winners, but it takes some time to shop there, like you have to keep checking in. The Bay can be surprisingly great at having a lot of options but can be $$.
A necklace or a scarf helps too. I have secret superhero jewelry (like literally a subtle Wonder Woman shield necklace.)
I do think the shoe issue is pulling you down. I believe you. I am still going to suggest that you look into whether something like Clarks, Naturalizer or going further afield, Anodyne will work for you. Soft Moc can help. Shoes are without a doubt worth money. Leather is best. Good soles.
Joe Fresh often has some kind of killer basics you can throw under a blazer or sweater - I just had a look on their site and they are harder to identify there than in store, but they are: 1. sleeveless blouses that may or may not require a camisole - they don't wrinkle much and look like a much more expensive blouse and 2. These kind of combo shirts/t-shirts that have like a blouse material on the front, jersey on the back. They also tend to have looser-cut blouses that if you pair them with a properly fitting skirt and blazer/cardigan read fine. H&M also has similar items.
For me, spending less on the tops is a good idea 'cause I end up with stains either down the front or frankly pit stains.
If you don't hate thrift shops (and again, After Times) I got all my fav skirts for a song at Value Village, and for me PERSONALLY it works well because I don't get my 'I hate industrial fashion' headache there, plus I see how things wear. But do not buy pants there unless you are getting really ok with it because they tend to smell or have pills or something. If you hate second hand that's just fine. For me I feel like I WIN when I wear my second hand stuff.
Oh, pills and wear - inspect your clothing for pill-y fabric, fading, holes, etc. Sometimes clothing just does not last right and this is something that really will read as unkempt.
On that note, the advice to wear jersey or softer clothing isn't a bad one for comfort, but there are a lot of cheap fabrics that won't wear well in that class. Know yourself here. I know if I get a cheap-o summer jersey dress, one day I'm going to realize it looks like I'm wearing an old t-shirt. YMMV!
P.S. Sorry, I wrote a book. I really want great people in our Federal Service to have really good careers, don't let clothes hold you back!!
posted by warriorqueen at 5:04 AM on May 13, 2020 [7 favorites]
Fit: This is something you can address. For PTSD reasons I spent most of my life not looking in mirrors and only caring that my clothes didn't fall off my body. My #1 advice for this is to start looking in the mirror, especially when you shop/try on clothes you ordered online. Slow your breathing down a lot. Take/order several sizes (where you can return them) and put them on and observe the differences between too big and too small and just right. I was wearing 14s and I started just taking sizes down in with me...I'm between an 8 and rarely a 12. Also sizing is whack, there are geeky reasons for this I won't clutter this post with but if it helps you to geek out on it let me know.
Women's uniform: For your level of position skirts and dresses may be easier to fit and give more professional bang for the buck (like, you can get away with less makeup) and often are more comfortable. Like, a black pencil skirt or a sheath dress read together and often last 4 times as long for less fuss. If not, look for dress slacks that don't wrinkle.
My rule of thumb when dressing for business is to have one structured item on - so a looser pant + top or dress with a structured blazer; an unstructured blazer or cardigan with a structured skirt. Structure means it keeps its shape when you throw it on the bed basically.
Blazers help a lot, both structured and unstructured. They feel fussy until you are used to them. I hate Banana Republic with passion but in the After Pandemic times, it is worth trying theirs on to get a feel for them. Where I found my favourite two was at Winners, but it takes some time to shop there, like you have to keep checking in. The Bay can be surprisingly great at having a lot of options but can be $$.
A necklace or a scarf helps too. I have secret superhero jewelry (like literally a subtle Wonder Woman shield necklace.)
I do think the shoe issue is pulling you down. I believe you. I am still going to suggest that you look into whether something like Clarks, Naturalizer or going further afield, Anodyne will work for you. Soft Moc can help. Shoes are without a doubt worth money. Leather is best. Good soles.
Joe Fresh often has some kind of killer basics you can throw under a blazer or sweater - I just had a look on their site and they are harder to identify there than in store, but they are: 1. sleeveless blouses that may or may not require a camisole - they don't wrinkle much and look like a much more expensive blouse and 2. These kind of combo shirts/t-shirts that have like a blouse material on the front, jersey on the back. They also tend to have looser-cut blouses that if you pair them with a properly fitting skirt and blazer/cardigan read fine. H&M also has similar items.
For me, spending less on the tops is a good idea 'cause I end up with stains either down the front or frankly pit stains.
If you don't hate thrift shops (and again, After Times) I got all my fav skirts for a song at Value Village, and for me PERSONALLY it works well because I don't get my 'I hate industrial fashion' headache there, plus I see how things wear. But do not buy pants there unless you are getting really ok with it because they tend to smell or have pills or something. If you hate second hand that's just fine. For me I feel like I WIN when I wear my second hand stuff.
Oh, pills and wear - inspect your clothing for pill-y fabric, fading, holes, etc. Sometimes clothing just does not last right and this is something that really will read as unkempt.
On that note, the advice to wear jersey or softer clothing isn't a bad one for comfort, but there are a lot of cheap fabrics that won't wear well in that class. Know yourself here. I know if I get a cheap-o summer jersey dress, one day I'm going to realize it looks like I'm wearing an old t-shirt. YMMV!
P.S. Sorry, I wrote a book. I really want great people in our Federal Service to have really good careers, don't let clothes hold you back!!
posted by warriorqueen at 5:04 AM on May 13, 2020 [7 favorites]
You may not want to dress in crisp new business casual clothes if you are physically uncomfortable in them. They are often fitted and cut in such a way as to require a specific body type and they often have a high sensory impact on your body. Some people feel meh about their work dress requirements because no matter what they wear they don't look the model wearing that outfit and their bosses judge them as sloppy due to bad fit. If you are a round bellied person, wearing dress pants and a fitted dress shirt off the rack doesn't work. You have to buy a shirt that fits around your belly so it is way too big on the rest of your body and you look like a child wearing Daddy's discarded dress shirt as a paint smock and you have to wear a belt uncomfortably tight to keep your pants from falling off and that may not even work well. Add a dislike of tight scratchy clothes to the mix and getting dressed in the morning so that you will be uncomfortable and look like a clown until you get home is depressing enough you're not going to want to think about it.
So it makes sense to look at your body and try to figure out if there are any issues with comfort or difficulty fitting your clothes that are making this hard for you.
When trying on clothes don't suck your gut in and pose. Slump your shoulders and stand like you would at a time of day when your posture is at its worst. Put your unguarded expression on, the one you wear when the telephone has just rung ensuring that you will now not be able to finish a task with a deadline on time. This may reveal problems you want to know about later, like button down shirts that gap between the buttons or create a wrinkle or actually hang down too far. Then clothes your eyes and and do a sensory check. Is the collar strangling you a little bit? Is the material plastic-y and sticking to you? Are you starting to get a tiny bit too warm already? Is it digging in under the armpits, or so low cut that your collar bones feel cold?
Look at yourself in the mirror when you get home to get a good idea of what you look at work, not when you have just dressed in the morning. This may reveal things to you that help you make choices. For example you may have parts of the outfit that come undone or un-tucked or your white shirts may look grubby before the day is over. This will give you some guidance of what not to wear or buy.
Go through your current wardrobe for the clothes you like to wear when you are at home and figure out why you like to wear them. You may like your pajama pants because of the texture and because they are easier to move in than your dress pants. You may like the jeans because they have pockets and are durable. When you figure out the difference between your current dress pants and your pants of choice go shopping looking for dress pants that have the same features as the pants you do like to wear. Poly-spandex women's dress pants with no pockets might miss both the comfort of your pajama pants and the utility of your jeans, but a pair of black chinos would have the pockets and some of the wear of the jeans, and there are dressy pants that share a lot of the features of your pajamas if you get flexible about the materials and the cut instead of defaulting to fitted and dark.
If you want to go on wearing sneakers to work, get plain black ones. If they have no colour they are acceptable at almost every workplace. If they still don't like them, oxfords are a good bet. If you are female, you can try doing some of your shopping in the men's department. Things like cardigan sweaters are a classic office suitable look. Knitted collared polo shirts are another men's department option.
Look at your coworkers and think about what they are wearing and if you can picture yourself wearing the same thing, and if not, why not. Look at other people, not just people of your own gender presentation.
A moderately casual outfit can be dressed up with a blazer to look much more formal and make an outfit that is not work appropriate into something that looks pleasing to the picky boss. I say this not to encourage you to wear blazers, but to consider if comfy stretch pants and a comfy stretch top could still be your office wear because you add a haircut, a necklace and a blazer.
Consider what you dislike about office clothes and figure out if those things you dislike are non-negotiable. You may think pants and a dress shirt, but hate pants and a dress shirt because they fit wrong, and might find that dresses work quite nicely because they can be fitted at the shoulder and chest and not at all at the waist, avoiding the problem of belts that dig in while you are sitting down and scratchy waistbands. You can wear a pair of oxfords or plain black sneakers with a dress if you go for the classic Jackie Onassis/ school uniform look.
posted by Jane the Brown at 7:31 AM on May 13, 2020 [2 favorites]
So it makes sense to look at your body and try to figure out if there are any issues with comfort or difficulty fitting your clothes that are making this hard for you.
When trying on clothes don't suck your gut in and pose. Slump your shoulders and stand like you would at a time of day when your posture is at its worst. Put your unguarded expression on, the one you wear when the telephone has just rung ensuring that you will now not be able to finish a task with a deadline on time. This may reveal problems you want to know about later, like button down shirts that gap between the buttons or create a wrinkle or actually hang down too far. Then clothes your eyes and and do a sensory check. Is the collar strangling you a little bit? Is the material plastic-y and sticking to you? Are you starting to get a tiny bit too warm already? Is it digging in under the armpits, or so low cut that your collar bones feel cold?
Look at yourself in the mirror when you get home to get a good idea of what you look at work, not when you have just dressed in the morning. This may reveal things to you that help you make choices. For example you may have parts of the outfit that come undone or un-tucked or your white shirts may look grubby before the day is over. This will give you some guidance of what not to wear or buy.
Go through your current wardrobe for the clothes you like to wear when you are at home and figure out why you like to wear them. You may like your pajama pants because of the texture and because they are easier to move in than your dress pants. You may like the jeans because they have pockets and are durable. When you figure out the difference between your current dress pants and your pants of choice go shopping looking for dress pants that have the same features as the pants you do like to wear. Poly-spandex women's dress pants with no pockets might miss both the comfort of your pajama pants and the utility of your jeans, but a pair of black chinos would have the pockets and some of the wear of the jeans, and there are dressy pants that share a lot of the features of your pajamas if you get flexible about the materials and the cut instead of defaulting to fitted and dark.
If you want to go on wearing sneakers to work, get plain black ones. If they have no colour they are acceptable at almost every workplace. If they still don't like them, oxfords are a good bet. If you are female, you can try doing some of your shopping in the men's department. Things like cardigan sweaters are a classic office suitable look. Knitted collared polo shirts are another men's department option.
Look at your coworkers and think about what they are wearing and if you can picture yourself wearing the same thing, and if not, why not. Look at other people, not just people of your own gender presentation.
A moderately casual outfit can be dressed up with a blazer to look much more formal and make an outfit that is not work appropriate into something that looks pleasing to the picky boss. I say this not to encourage you to wear blazers, but to consider if comfy stretch pants and a comfy stretch top could still be your office wear because you add a haircut, a necklace and a blazer.
Consider what you dislike about office clothes and figure out if those things you dislike are non-negotiable. You may think pants and a dress shirt, but hate pants and a dress shirt because they fit wrong, and might find that dresses work quite nicely because they can be fitted at the shoulder and chest and not at all at the waist, avoiding the problem of belts that dig in while you are sitting down and scratchy waistbands. You can wear a pair of oxfords or plain black sneakers with a dress if you go for the classic Jackie Onassis/ school uniform look.
posted by Jane the Brown at 7:31 AM on May 13, 2020 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Not to threadsit, but just to shed more light on the shoe issue, I have cerebral palsy, bunions and most importantly feet that swell to the size of a loaf of bread on any given day. They swell so much it affects fit of the shoe.
So I need a shoe that can fit my normal fit and my loaf of bread sized feet. So far the running shoes I wear are literally the only shoes I have found that are flexible enough to fit my swollen feet. But I am definitely willing to change up the shoes if anyone has any miracle suggestions.
posted by aclevername at 7:39 AM on May 13, 2020 [1 favorite]
So I need a shoe that can fit my normal fit and my loaf of bread sized feet. So far the running shoes I wear are literally the only shoes I have found that are flexible enough to fit my swollen feet. But I am definitely willing to change up the shoes if anyone has any miracle suggestions.
posted by aclevername at 7:39 AM on May 13, 2020 [1 favorite]
Based on your update - there are vast variations in style for running shoes. Some read a lot smarter than others. If you can find something black (incl. black or white soles) with unobtrusive branding, ideally in leather or fake leather you'll be a lot closer to something that is work appropriate than with something colorful, heavily branded. I appreciate there's a trade off - you want them to be soft and flexible to accommodate the changes in size but the more structure you can find within the roomer sneaker shape the more formal it will look. That's where I'd go - I have some smooth black trainers I am happy to wear to work if I am in a more casual location and I work in professional services. They look a lot more like a normal black laced shoe than a running shoe whilst being a lot more comfy than my brogues and I do make sure I also wear other clothes that read work to balance that a bit.
posted by koahiatamadl at 7:56 AM on May 13, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by koahiatamadl at 7:56 AM on May 13, 2020 [4 favorites]
Crocs make a line of flats that are very stretchy -- I have a pair that are a little wide for me, but I wonder if something like this might work and be flexible enough for your feet while looking more office appropriate?
posted by jabes at 8:37 AM on May 13, 2020
posted by jabes at 8:37 AM on May 13, 2020
I have arthritis and hallux rigidus in my feet, which means not only do I need shoes with a wide toe box, but I need shoes with a fairly rigid sole, because I can't bend my toes and it hurts to walk without rigid soles. I usually wear black athletic shoes with rocker bottoms, which are bland enough to fade into the background. If anybody notices and disapproves, I just say "I wear them for medical reasons," which usually satisfies them, and if not I drone on about my foot problems, which nobody else wants to hear, which chases them off. (I also have found that some hiking boots can fake being close enough to dress shoes under pants.) I pretty much get all my shoes from Zappos because I can order 6+ pairs of shoes at once, test them in the house, and easily ship them back if they don't work.
Barking Dog Shoe Blog is also a great place to look for reviews of shoes for problem feet.
I also subscribe to the uniform theory above, and created a color scheme for myself. I wear things along two color axes: black to light grey on one, and pink to dark burgundy on the other. All those go with each other so I don't have to spend time thinking "Are people going to look at me weirdly for wearing these two items?" My clothes are mostly in jersey fabrics (a stretch knit that doesn't wrinkle or crease easily), and the uniform is: pants, plain shirt, cardigan. I have one jersey blazer that was made to fit my measurements in the same fabric as 2 pairs of my pants so I can fake a suit when I need to pretend to be adult.
As far as clothing goes, if you don't have the body of a fit model (the ones they design clothes on), and most of us don't, then most off-the-rack clothing isn't going to fit properly, which can look sloppy. If you find a tailor or alterations person you can get that taken care of. My body is two different sizes on top and bottom, and I am shorter than average, which means that any shirt that doesn't cling too tightly to my hips and butt (because I never tuck shirts in--they don't stay tucked in, and don't look good tucked in) is going to be baggy on my torso and the sleeves will be too long, and the shirt overall may be too long. All of that reads as "sloppy" to others. Getting the shirts altered to fit takes care of that.
Getting clothing made to your measurements also takes care of the sloppiness factor from bad fit. I extol the virtues of Ureshii Design here whenever I can because they are a lifesaver for me, and many of my work clothes (including the blazer and pants mentioned above) come from here, and were made to fit my body. They're in Canada, so in your neck of the woods, more or less.
posted by telophase at 8:42 AM on May 13, 2020
Barking Dog Shoe Blog is also a great place to look for reviews of shoes for problem feet.
I also subscribe to the uniform theory above, and created a color scheme for myself. I wear things along two color axes: black to light grey on one, and pink to dark burgundy on the other. All those go with each other so I don't have to spend time thinking "Are people going to look at me weirdly for wearing these two items?" My clothes are mostly in jersey fabrics (a stretch knit that doesn't wrinkle or crease easily), and the uniform is: pants, plain shirt, cardigan. I have one jersey blazer that was made to fit my measurements in the same fabric as 2 pairs of my pants so I can fake a suit when I need to pretend to be adult.
As far as clothing goes, if you don't have the body of a fit model (the ones they design clothes on), and most of us don't, then most off-the-rack clothing isn't going to fit properly, which can look sloppy. If you find a tailor or alterations person you can get that taken care of. My body is two different sizes on top and bottom, and I am shorter than average, which means that any shirt that doesn't cling too tightly to my hips and butt (because I never tuck shirts in--they don't stay tucked in, and don't look good tucked in) is going to be baggy on my torso and the sleeves will be too long, and the shirt overall may be too long. All of that reads as "sloppy" to others. Getting the shirts altered to fit takes care of that.
Getting clothing made to your measurements also takes care of the sloppiness factor from bad fit. I extol the virtues of Ureshii Design here whenever I can because they are a lifesaver for me, and many of my work clothes (including the blazer and pants mentioned above) come from here, and were made to fit my body. They're in Canada, so in your neck of the woods, more or less.
posted by telophase at 8:42 AM on May 13, 2020
I don't think you need therapy for this issue. I think you need to find a uniform that suits your needs (extremely comfortable, washable, works with a supportive and wide athletic shoe, low maintenance, multi season) and is just nice looking enough to blend in at the office. You want to aim to fly just under the radar.
I like a grey ponte pant with a tunic length top. Grey, not black pants, if you want them to work visually with most nice looking sneakers. I like Asics for extreme comfort and support, and the knit ones are a step up aesthetically: something like this. Ponte pants are basically leggings with plausible deniability. A tunic length top lets you wear soft stretchy pants that work better visually with athletic shoes than regular pants do.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:24 AM on May 13, 2020 [1 favorite]
I like a grey ponte pant with a tunic length top. Grey, not black pants, if you want them to work visually with most nice looking sneakers. I like Asics for extreme comfort and support, and the knit ones are a step up aesthetically: something like this. Ponte pants are basically leggings with plausible deniability. A tunic length top lets you wear soft stretchy pants that work better visually with athletic shoes than regular pants do.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:24 AM on May 13, 2020 [1 favorite]
I am someone who also tends towards butch or masculine of centre dress, and did the whole "femme is easier in business spaces" thing for a long time. It sucked. I don't do it anymore.
I have two excellent blazers - one stretch and one slightly oversize. I wear button downs a lot, but also very simple shirts, fitted but not tight. Add in either slacks, ponte pants, or jeans, and even with sneakers it gets me through meetings and teaching. I've got very short hair now but transitioning the ponytail to a bun does make a difference.
For shirts I tend towards plain colours, darker, and fairly thin material because I'm in a tropical environment - I put the blazer on for the situation but commute without it. Nothing ever fits quite right (enormous tits, not enormous waist or shoulders or arms) so I cuff a lot of the sleeves. French tuck shirts when I can. And it's all a uniform - all the colours match or can be worn together, and I have options for painful days that are less fitted. I've sewn down the bust in the button ups which makes a HUGE difference, as does not being wrinkled (I just fit Uniqlo and the rayon button ups are my go to).
Once I leaned into the butch thing, it got a LOT easier for me to make that uniform and be presentable at any given moment at work, rather than having to consider and make an effort on some days. I can just grab whatever shirt and pants combo I think will feel best, one of the blazers, and I'm done. I still don't wear makeup, and my hair tends towards Einstein on a good day, but the blazer and confidence-comfort mean I project "weird academic" rather than "hates her life" even on spectacular bad skin or hair days.
Also, scarves are a super neat way to make an outfit look intentional. Because that's the key - look intentional rather than miserable.
posted by geek anachronism at 4:41 PM on May 13, 2020 [2 favorites]
I have two excellent blazers - one stretch and one slightly oversize. I wear button downs a lot, but also very simple shirts, fitted but not tight. Add in either slacks, ponte pants, or jeans, and even with sneakers it gets me through meetings and teaching. I've got very short hair now but transitioning the ponytail to a bun does make a difference.
For shirts I tend towards plain colours, darker, and fairly thin material because I'm in a tropical environment - I put the blazer on for the situation but commute without it. Nothing ever fits quite right (enormous tits, not enormous waist or shoulders or arms) so I cuff a lot of the sleeves. French tuck shirts when I can. And it's all a uniform - all the colours match or can be worn together, and I have options for painful days that are less fitted. I've sewn down the bust in the button ups which makes a HUGE difference, as does not being wrinkled (I just fit Uniqlo and the rayon button ups are my go to).
Once I leaned into the butch thing, it got a LOT easier for me to make that uniform and be presentable at any given moment at work, rather than having to consider and make an effort on some days. I can just grab whatever shirt and pants combo I think will feel best, one of the blazers, and I'm done. I still don't wear makeup, and my hair tends towards Einstein on a good day, but the blazer and confidence-comfort mean I project "weird academic" rather than "hates her life" even on spectacular bad skin or hair days.
Also, scarves are a super neat way to make an outfit look intentional. Because that's the key - look intentional rather than miserable.
posted by geek anachronism at 4:41 PM on May 13, 2020 [2 favorites]
You’ve gotten a lot of great advice here.
one small thing to add:
- I used to also be wrinkly and could never quite get ironing down. A clothes steamer is a magical device and takes less time than ironing. I don’t know how I lived so long without one. I use it on everything from t-shirts to dresses to pants, on all types of fabrics. It’s seriously a game changer for making me feel “put together”.
posted by affectionateborg at 4:04 PM on May 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
one small thing to add:
- I used to also be wrinkly and could never quite get ironing down. A clothes steamer is a magical device and takes less time than ironing. I don’t know how I lived so long without one. I use it on everything from t-shirts to dresses to pants, on all types of fabrics. It’s seriously a game changer for making me feel “put together”.
posted by affectionateborg at 4:04 PM on May 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
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Once you do the same thing everyday, you can be as apathetic about fashion as you can be. But cleanliness is essential!
posted by tmdonahue at 2:21 PM on May 12, 2020 [38 favorites]