Break-ups, exes, anger and forgiveness - a question!
November 22, 2015 8:22 AM Subscribe
Recently broke up with manboy whom I deeply loved and saw my future with, am dealing with it okay, but have a question about anger and forgiveness.
So, this is me.
I broke up with him two and a half months ago. It's been unbearable to walk away from someone I love so much, but somehow, amongst the devastation and crying and life-falling-apartness, I haven't regretted it at all. It was the right thing to do. I can handle the unbearableness of it, too, just about – I know it's temporary and it's getting a tiny, tiny bit easier each week. I'm also, I guess, proud of myself for doing it.
My question is about how to handle a very specific thing that's really eating me up. I want to be friends with him, eventually. We should have just been friends in the first place. We had an extremely strong connection just as friends, before the romantic stuff even entered my mind, and sometimes I wish I'd insisted we kept it like that, though I was so excited about the prospect of having a boyfriend (it'd been a looooong time). Despite his many issues, he remains one of the kindest, most interesting, hilarious, most on my wavelength, compassionate, warm, intelligent and wonderful people I've ever met. I'm doing overtime on the internal work I need to do right now to detach as someone who loved him and saw a future together, but those aspects of him don't go away. They still make me want to be a friend of his, when I'm ready.
Problem is, I'm so angry at him. The main issue was his block around commitment (as his block around having babies was certainly understandable – I myself felt that way at 29). But his block around commitment strikes me now as pathetic. He hasn't done the work on himself that he so clearly needs to do, and so he still sees relationships as absolute doom and death (due to his family patterning), whereas unavailable women are some kind of sweet, sweet manna (which will, by extension of the first metaphor, keep him immortal, and therefore are much to be desired). The fact that our relationship was otherwise brilliant, friends said 'we were perfect together' which felt so true on some level, etc etc, raged against this endless bullsh*t of these very damaging unconscious beliefs which kept him terrified of opening his heart, being truly committed, seeing relationships as possibly awesome things, etc. In the end, obviously, it was too much and pushed me away.
He has said he resents himself so much for needing this validation from unavailable women, and he resents himself deeply, too, for not being able to love me, when, as he said himself, there was no reason on earth why he shouldn't or couldn't. He used to agonise over what the matter with him was, and though I told him what I *thought* it was as kindly and gently as I could many times, he couldn't really make the connection or, perhaps, face the pain. I'm not sure. The fact that he couldn't hold onto me was (and still is, I believe) something that destroys him. I've been told by mutual friends he's depressed and heartbroken right now. He's told me himself he can't sleep and has constant anxiety. It's also clear that trying to distract himself from the pain of losing me by pursuing a bunch of unavailable women. Pretty much everyone has said to me "When he's older, he will regret this so much". That's all well and good, but I'm so angry that he couldn't have done the work and sorted his shit out now. I'm angry that there was potential for us to be so happy, but instead, I'm a casualty of his damage (if that doesn't sound too extreme).
People here will say leave well alone, go forwards in your life without him, etc etc. I am - I seriously am. But he's been my only serious boyfriend in the past 11 years and it's been an enormous thing to have to have gone through this, realised that I could spend my life with him, realised that he was pushing me away so badly, and have to decide to cut it off.
I ultimately do want to be friends with him. We've had only friendly conversations since the break-up, and I'm no fan of drama these days - I'm in my mid-30s and well over such things. I want things to be fairly low-key and as kind as possible, because that's the only way I can deal with it that will bring me peace.
That said, I *am* angry at him. I'm angry that at 29, he won't face his issues or his pain, still, and still wants to dive into the world of unavailable women, and yet hates himself for it, and I'm also angry that when we were together and I brought this up again and again, he'd ask me to wait. He meant it in earnest, from a good place. But I'm still angry. He wanted to be a better person and be able to love me, but he couldn't.
How can I forgive him? Do I need to tell him how angry I am still and why? Or is it best not to dredge it up, talk about it with my therapist and friends (which I do) until it really has left me?
Advice would be much appreciated, especially from anyone who's been there, done that. Thank you so much!
So, this is me.
I broke up with him two and a half months ago. It's been unbearable to walk away from someone I love so much, but somehow, amongst the devastation and crying and life-falling-apartness, I haven't regretted it at all. It was the right thing to do. I can handle the unbearableness of it, too, just about – I know it's temporary and it's getting a tiny, tiny bit easier each week. I'm also, I guess, proud of myself for doing it.
My question is about how to handle a very specific thing that's really eating me up. I want to be friends with him, eventually. We should have just been friends in the first place. We had an extremely strong connection just as friends, before the romantic stuff even entered my mind, and sometimes I wish I'd insisted we kept it like that, though I was so excited about the prospect of having a boyfriend (it'd been a looooong time). Despite his many issues, he remains one of the kindest, most interesting, hilarious, most on my wavelength, compassionate, warm, intelligent and wonderful people I've ever met. I'm doing overtime on the internal work I need to do right now to detach as someone who loved him and saw a future together, but those aspects of him don't go away. They still make me want to be a friend of his, when I'm ready.
Problem is, I'm so angry at him. The main issue was his block around commitment (as his block around having babies was certainly understandable – I myself felt that way at 29). But his block around commitment strikes me now as pathetic. He hasn't done the work on himself that he so clearly needs to do, and so he still sees relationships as absolute doom and death (due to his family patterning), whereas unavailable women are some kind of sweet, sweet manna (which will, by extension of the first metaphor, keep him immortal, and therefore are much to be desired). The fact that our relationship was otherwise brilliant, friends said 'we were perfect together' which felt so true on some level, etc etc, raged against this endless bullsh*t of these very damaging unconscious beliefs which kept him terrified of opening his heart, being truly committed, seeing relationships as possibly awesome things, etc. In the end, obviously, it was too much and pushed me away.
He has said he resents himself so much for needing this validation from unavailable women, and he resents himself deeply, too, for not being able to love me, when, as he said himself, there was no reason on earth why he shouldn't or couldn't. He used to agonise over what the matter with him was, and though I told him what I *thought* it was as kindly and gently as I could many times, he couldn't really make the connection or, perhaps, face the pain. I'm not sure. The fact that he couldn't hold onto me was (and still is, I believe) something that destroys him. I've been told by mutual friends he's depressed and heartbroken right now. He's told me himself he can't sleep and has constant anxiety. It's also clear that trying to distract himself from the pain of losing me by pursuing a bunch of unavailable women. Pretty much everyone has said to me "When he's older, he will regret this so much". That's all well and good, but I'm so angry that he couldn't have done the work and sorted his shit out now. I'm angry that there was potential for us to be so happy, but instead, I'm a casualty of his damage (if that doesn't sound too extreme).
People here will say leave well alone, go forwards in your life without him, etc etc. I am - I seriously am. But he's been my only serious boyfriend in the past 11 years and it's been an enormous thing to have to have gone through this, realised that I could spend my life with him, realised that he was pushing me away so badly, and have to decide to cut it off.
I ultimately do want to be friends with him. We've had only friendly conversations since the break-up, and I'm no fan of drama these days - I'm in my mid-30s and well over such things. I want things to be fairly low-key and as kind as possible, because that's the only way I can deal with it that will bring me peace.
That said, I *am* angry at him. I'm angry that at 29, he won't face his issues or his pain, still, and still wants to dive into the world of unavailable women, and yet hates himself for it, and I'm also angry that when we were together and I brought this up again and again, he'd ask me to wait. He meant it in earnest, from a good place. But I'm still angry. He wanted to be a better person and be able to love me, but he couldn't.
How can I forgive him? Do I need to tell him how angry I am still and why? Or is it best not to dredge it up, talk about it with my therapist and friends (which I do) until it really has left me?
Advice would be much appreciated, especially from anyone who's been there, done that. Thank you so much!
Best answer: If you're not ready to let go of the anger you have toward him, then you're not ready to be friends yet. Keep doing what you're doing, and let him do him.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:50 AM on November 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:50 AM on November 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
Best answer: I want to be friends with him, eventually.
Good God, why is this even a problem you are thinking about now? You are wading through a devastating breakup and this is not a thing you need to be thinking about now.
Later -- in like a year, or two years, or three years -- you will feel differently about this man and about being friends with him. Either you'll be able to be friends, lightly and with no weird shit, or you won't care at all, in a way you cannot imagine right now.
I would gently suggest to you that stressing over how to be future friends with your recent ex right now is just a way of holding on to the connection when it is so painful to let it go.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:55 AM on November 22, 2015 [45 favorites]
Good God, why is this even a problem you are thinking about now? You are wading through a devastating breakup and this is not a thing you need to be thinking about now.
Later -- in like a year, or two years, or three years -- you will feel differently about this man and about being friends with him. Either you'll be able to be friends, lightly and with no weird shit, or you won't care at all, in a way you cannot imagine right now.
I would gently suggest to you that stressing over how to be future friends with your recent ex right now is just a way of holding on to the connection when it is so painful to let it go.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:55 AM on November 22, 2015 [45 favorites]
You're looking inward at why you're angry, but you need to look even closer than that. Because what you're asking for says more about you than about the situation at hand.
There's a difference between:
I want him to do X.
I want him to want to do X.
The first is common. The second belies an inappropriate desire for control. You're not just asking for the leopard to change his spots. You're angry about the fact that the fucking leopard can't even see how important spot-changing is for his spot-changing development and growth as a fully developed leopard, that if he just understood how happy he would be as a leopard with different spots...
You don't just need to back up and ask how you forgive him. You need to back way, way up and ask why you're here in this place at all and why this is so important to you.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:55 AM on November 22, 2015 [17 favorites]
There's a difference between:
I want him to do X.
I want him to want to do X.
The first is common. The second belies an inappropriate desire for control. You're not just asking for the leopard to change his spots. You're angry about the fact that the fucking leopard can't even see how important spot-changing is for his spot-changing development and growth as a fully developed leopard, that if he just understood how happy he would be as a leopard with different spots...
You don't just need to back up and ask how you forgive him. You need to back way, way up and ask why you're here in this place at all and why this is so important to you.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:55 AM on November 22, 2015 [17 favorites]
Best answer: How can I forgive him? Do I need to tell him how angry I am still and why?
Time, and time.
You need recovery time for the perspective to develop. Even for people who do ultimately form a friendship with an ex, it's not a couple months later unless it was a weeks-long relationship. It's one year, or five or ten years later. For now, you can't be friends. That's just how it is.
You can't force this. That's like having surgery to repair a knee and then, after a few weeks of physical therapy where you're gently kicking a ball or working up to a full squat, you say "I'm going to jump ahead to the part where I go skiing now!"
In the meantime, be angry. Cycle all the way through that until you reach the sort of surprising conclusion at the end of all that. You'll know when you get there. Work it out, do the physical therapy, and don't half-ass it by looking at your watch the whole time thinking "I gotta hurry through this so we can be friends and maybe hopefully there's a tiny little chance we're actually not gonna be friends but we're going to get back together because he's going to realize what a prize I am and go fix his life to get me back."
Do your work and worry about you, and one day maybe you'll bump into him at a party and talk to him for a while and think, "Oh, wow, I really like him for who/where he is right now, maybe we can very carefully ease into an acquaintance though of course we are both with other people who are ridiculously better-suited for us now. While it is sad that I had to go through that misery with him to get to the place I'm in now, I recognize the importance of the experience in my life."
One year minimum, or five or ten. Not weeks, not months. You need to have completely let go and learned your lessons and moved on before friendship is going to be on the table.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:56 AM on November 22, 2015 [7 favorites]
Time, and time.
You need recovery time for the perspective to develop. Even for people who do ultimately form a friendship with an ex, it's not a couple months later unless it was a weeks-long relationship. It's one year, or five or ten years later. For now, you can't be friends. That's just how it is.
You can't force this. That's like having surgery to repair a knee and then, after a few weeks of physical therapy where you're gently kicking a ball or working up to a full squat, you say "I'm going to jump ahead to the part where I go skiing now!"
In the meantime, be angry. Cycle all the way through that until you reach the sort of surprising conclusion at the end of all that. You'll know when you get there. Work it out, do the physical therapy, and don't half-ass it by looking at your watch the whole time thinking "I gotta hurry through this so we can be friends and maybe hopefully there's a tiny little chance we're actually not gonna be friends but we're going to get back together because he's going to realize what a prize I am and go fix his life to get me back."
Do your work and worry about you, and one day maybe you'll bump into him at a party and talk to him for a while and think, "Oh, wow, I really like him for who/where he is right now, maybe we can very carefully ease into an acquaintance though of course we are both with other people who are ridiculously better-suited for us now. While it is sad that I had to go through that misery with him to get to the place I'm in now, I recognize the importance of the experience in my life."
One year minimum, or five or ten. Not weeks, not months. You need to have completely let go and learned your lessons and moved on before friendship is going to be on the table.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:56 AM on November 22, 2015 [7 favorites]
I see you saying you're not a fan of drama, but by waxing lyrically about his damage, pain, and inability to commit to you and his not "doing the work", you seem to be engaging in that drama you say you're not a fan of. People who resist commitment to one person with all of the "give me time" bullshit your ex portrayed commit to different people in a heartbeat all the time. He simply wasn't ready to settle down with you on your timeline. Damage, pain, whatever, he's 29 and still wants to sow his wild oats.
So be friends if you want, but be prepared for him to commit elsewhere at lightning speed and the fallout feelings of anger that will spur that he couldn't do so with you.
posted by cecic at 8:57 AM on November 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
So be friends if you want, but be prepared for him to commit elsewhere at lightning speed and the fallout feelings of anger that will spur that he couldn't do so with you.
posted by cecic at 8:57 AM on November 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
He wasn't your husband. You sound angry at him on that level, and it's unbelievably unfair. You don't get to decide what work he has to do, how he should feel about commitment... You don't get to decide how he feels about you, or anything. He's none of your business.
Sorry that was harsh. I think it's OK to be mad at the situation, but not him personally. Is that distinction understandable?
Do you want another boyfriend? Maybe to get married some day? Drop any idea of being friends with your current ex. Even if you were over him, being friends is a HUGE distraction from finding those qualities you enjoyed in this person within a better, lasting relationship.
I know the break up is fresh, and it's painful. If he was your first boyfriend in 11 years, fix that by dating. If you have a goal and want something, you have work to do! The boat has sailed on any concern or judgements you get to have about your ex and his goals or lack of them. You worry about your goals. Work for what you want. Get out there and meet new people. Work on yourself.
Put this guy in the past for your own benefit. You're angry because you are still holding on to what could have been (in your mind, he did not share your vision.) Find someone who wants what you want! This is your prescription for future happiness. Move forward. Move forward.
posted by jbenben at 9:02 AM on November 22, 2015 [10 favorites]
Sorry that was harsh. I think it's OK to be mad at the situation, but not him personally. Is that distinction understandable?
Do you want another boyfriend? Maybe to get married some day? Drop any idea of being friends with your current ex. Even if you were over him, being friends is a HUGE distraction from finding those qualities you enjoyed in this person within a better, lasting relationship.
I know the break up is fresh, and it's painful. If he was your first boyfriend in 11 years, fix that by dating. If you have a goal and want something, you have work to do! The boat has sailed on any concern or judgements you get to have about your ex and his goals or lack of them. You worry about your goals. Work for what you want. Get out there and meet new people. Work on yourself.
Put this guy in the past for your own benefit. You're angry because you are still holding on to what could have been (in your mind, he did not share your vision.) Find someone who wants what you want! This is your prescription for future happiness. Move forward. Move forward.
posted by jbenben at 9:02 AM on November 22, 2015 [10 favorites]
Yeah, you need to reframe "I saw my future with him!" Well, no, you didn't. You didn't like him-the-person, you liked a him-shaped thing you imagined an imaginary life with.
When you work your way through all the other stuff and get to that part, it's going to burn. You're going to figure out who the anger is actually directed at. That's why it's not going to be helpful to tell him about it or try to make him answer for it. The person you'll ultimately have to forgive isn't him.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:28 AM on November 22, 2015 [16 favorites]
When you work your way through all the other stuff and get to that part, it's going to burn. You're going to figure out who the anger is actually directed at. That's why it's not going to be helpful to tell him about it or try to make him answer for it. The person you'll ultimately have to forgive isn't him.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:28 AM on November 22, 2015 [16 favorites]
Break-ups are hard. You are not in a place to be thinking about being friends. You don't need to even consider it right now - it might make sense later, but you have to recover yourself first.
But I think the bigger issue is...you wanted him to be something he clearly was not. Sometimes we try to force people into the mold of what we think they should be. We push and we push and we push and we can't figure out why the big, solid square won't fit into the small triangle. We don't even realize we're doing it.
You envisioned a future with him, that really didn't make sense based off what you already knew about him. And because you've convinced yourself that deep down he really is a triangle, you are angry that you couldn't make him that. Maybe one day he'll be more of a triangle, maybe the timing was off, but it doesn't really matter. Right now, he's a square.
You have to accept that this person is not the triangle you imagined him to be. You have to understand...people are who they are, not who we want them to be. He's not a piece of cheese, you can't just cut off the mouldy parts.
Let's say he's X and his commitments issues are Y so you made him x-y in your head. You envisioned a future with x-y, you wanted children with x-y. But x-y was never a real person, not at all. You don't get to pick the parts you want to keep. He kept being x, and you saw him as x-y, and you're angry because he's still x, not x-y. You thought you could make him see how being x-y was so much better, so you're angry at a person who was never real, only based on a real person.
It's hard to come to terms with the fact that you've been lying to yourself for so long, you believe the true him and the imaginary him are the same person. The anger...it will dissipate with time. Maybe you can be friends with him one day, but you'll have to discard the imaginary him.
posted by Aranquis at 10:11 AM on November 22, 2015 [7 favorites]
But I think the bigger issue is...you wanted him to be something he clearly was not. Sometimes we try to force people into the mold of what we think they should be. We push and we push and we push and we can't figure out why the big, solid square won't fit into the small triangle. We don't even realize we're doing it.
You envisioned a future with him, that really didn't make sense based off what you already knew about him. And because you've convinced yourself that deep down he really is a triangle, you are angry that you couldn't make him that. Maybe one day he'll be more of a triangle, maybe the timing was off, but it doesn't really matter. Right now, he's a square.
You have to accept that this person is not the triangle you imagined him to be. You have to understand...people are who they are, not who we want them to be. He's not a piece of cheese, you can't just cut off the mouldy parts.
Let's say he's X and his commitments issues are Y so you made him x-y in your head. You envisioned a future with x-y, you wanted children with x-y. But x-y was never a real person, not at all. You don't get to pick the parts you want to keep. He kept being x, and you saw him as x-y, and you're angry because he's still x, not x-y. You thought you could make him see how being x-y was so much better, so you're angry at a person who was never real, only based on a real person.
It's hard to come to terms with the fact that you've been lying to yourself for so long, you believe the true him and the imaginary him are the same person. The anger...it will dissipate with time. Maybe you can be friends with him one day, but you'll have to discard the imaginary him.
posted by Aranquis at 10:11 AM on November 22, 2015 [7 favorites]
Tough love warning:
Problem is, I'm so angry at him. The main issue was his block around commitment (as his block around having babies was certainly understandable – I myself felt that way at 29). But his block around commitment strikes me now as pathetic.
I think you are overstepping some boundaries here. You are imposing your desires on him and then declaring them to be the only way a person should live their life. There is no rule that says that a person is supposed to desire committment or children or any of that. The fact that he has had tough times in the past that make him wary of committment does not make him wrong for not wanting it. Nor does it make him "pathetic."
You have no moral right to be angry at him for not wanting the same thing you do. From reading your questions, it sounds like he was up front about him not being certain this is what he wanted.
Acknowledging that he is his own human, with his own rights to choose what sort of relationships he wants to engage in is an important step in getting over the frustration you are facing. A
posted by Ironmouth at 10:13 AM on November 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
Problem is, I'm so angry at him. The main issue was his block around commitment (as his block around having babies was certainly understandable – I myself felt that way at 29). But his block around commitment strikes me now as pathetic.
I think you are overstepping some boundaries here. You are imposing your desires on him and then declaring them to be the only way a person should live their life. There is no rule that says that a person is supposed to desire committment or children or any of that. The fact that he has had tough times in the past that make him wary of committment does not make him wrong for not wanting it. Nor does it make him "pathetic."
You have no moral right to be angry at him for not wanting the same thing you do. From reading your questions, it sounds like he was up front about him not being certain this is what he wanted.
Acknowledging that he is his own human, with his own rights to choose what sort of relationships he wants to engage in is an important step in getting over the frustration you are facing. A
posted by Ironmouth at 10:13 AM on November 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
I don't think you can be friends with him now. Maybe in a year or two, but not now. Being friends with him, worrying about what he's doing or not doing, will just get in the way of your ultimate goal: a committed relationship and children.
If you're not already in therapy, I would recommend doing a few sessions with someone. Not because you are "crazy" but because it might save you a lot of time. Getting clear about your feelings and your motivations will help you move forward in your life.
posted by tuesdayschild at 10:37 AM on November 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you're not already in therapy, I would recommend doing a few sessions with someone. Not because you are "crazy" but because it might save you a lot of time. Getting clear about your feelings and your motivations will help you move forward in your life.
posted by tuesdayschild at 10:37 AM on November 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
You might as well be angry at the sea for being wet. It sounds like he was pretty clear with you about his issues and never deceived you about his ability to commit in the present point in time. He actually doesn't need to face his issues, or his pain, or work on himself, or any other such thing. He's under no obligation to be the person you needed in your life, and he doesn't need to ask for/receive your forgiveness for "failing" you in that way. The fact that this is the only serious relationship you've had in 11 years doesn't create any special burden for him to change himself so it would work out the way you wanted it to.
posted by drlith at 10:39 AM on November 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by drlith at 10:39 AM on November 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
snickerdoodle took the words out of my mouth :)
I do understand being frustrated by the loss of time spent with someone who wasn't prepared for or interested in the life you wanted, and disappointed that things didn't work out the way you'd hoped, I've been there. I had to ask myself, exactly as snickerdoodle said: why did I stay with someone like that? Answer: I hoped for him to change, I saw what I wanted to see, didn't accept what I was told (in words or behaviour).
It's a hard lesson to learn, but failing to recognize people for who they are, and not listening to what they're telling you, is a recipe for sadness. You've got to take people as they are, or not at all.
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:18 AM on November 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
I do understand being frustrated by the loss of time spent with someone who wasn't prepared for or interested in the life you wanted, and disappointed that things didn't work out the way you'd hoped, I've been there. I had to ask myself, exactly as snickerdoodle said: why did I stay with someone like that? Answer: I hoped for him to change, I saw what I wanted to see, didn't accept what I was told (in words or behaviour).
It's a hard lesson to learn, but failing to recognize people for who they are, and not listening to what they're telling you, is a recipe for sadness. You've got to take people as they are, or not at all.
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:18 AM on November 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks to the people who've answered so far, especially Jessamyn, jbenben, aranquis and lyn never. Your answers and thoughtful, kind and much appreciated.
I'm slightly annoyed by the tone of some of the other responses here. With the greatest of respect, I emphasised in my initial post that my ex asked me to wait for him again and again while he tried to change, because he wanted enormously to do so. He didn't 'show me who he was' as though he was some kind of fixed entity (ie. entailing the supposition that I screwed up by choosing him, and therefore have to forgive myself). He desperately wanted to be a person who could give me what I needed. I don't think giving him a chance for 15 months was me being naive or blind, frankly. Not at all. People can change. I gave him time to see if he could.
Also, of course there's no special burden or obligation on him to change - and thus I left to find someone else. With the greatest respect, I do not need to be told.
Also, it's surely understandable that I'm still processing the final shape of things between us, and am still hurt and angry. This guy wanted to be with me for the long run, and he wanted to do everything he could to make that happen. He just also needed to pursue unavailable women. He was NOT in the least bit clear with me about that. So anyone who wants to say 'he was clear with you', 'he showed you who he was' or 'that's the way he is, he's under no obligation to change for you', with the best will in the world, please don't. It's deeply unhelpful, to the point that I'm sitting here rolling my eyes and slightly feeling as though I'm being trolled. Such answers don't help in the least with me having to process the difficulty of the break-up, which is why I asked my question.
I much appreciate the people who have empathised that it's tough and offered advice in that spirit and along those lines. That's the kind of generous answer that makes me really listen and be grateful.
I very, very much appreciate everyone who has taken the time to respond to me – it's kind and generous. But indeed, (while I'm at it) it's also deeply unhelpful for people to tell me I have no moral right to be angry, or that I can't call him pathetic, or that I'm overstepping boundaries. I've been nothing but kind and calm and clear with him, and no person-to-person boundaries are being overstepped. Other than that, I don't castigate my own morality, and I certainly don't police my own head. Please refrain from telling me to do so. It's merely irritating. These aren't the answers I seek.
The people who put empathy and awareness before 'I told you so' or, more inevitably, 'he told you so' in their answer are inherently far more useful and are far more appreciated. I understand how easy it is to take a harsh tone with someone you don't know, but that person is hurting, and is fundamentally asking for empathetic, generous advice. In any case, thank you to everyone for chipping in. It's much appreciated, despite the above misgivings.
I've decided to mark this as resolved because there's no need to pursue such lines of inquiry when people are so keen to say 'he showed you who he was' which is so deeply unhelpful. The answers I've marked as best are ones that are most useful, and I'm happy to run with them, as far as mefi goes!
Thank you.
posted by considerthelilies at 11:38 AM on November 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
I'm slightly annoyed by the tone of some of the other responses here. With the greatest of respect, I emphasised in my initial post that my ex asked me to wait for him again and again while he tried to change, because he wanted enormously to do so. He didn't 'show me who he was' as though he was some kind of fixed entity (ie. entailing the supposition that I screwed up by choosing him, and therefore have to forgive myself). He desperately wanted to be a person who could give me what I needed. I don't think giving him a chance for 15 months was me being naive or blind, frankly. Not at all. People can change. I gave him time to see if he could.
Also, of course there's no special burden or obligation on him to change - and thus I left to find someone else. With the greatest respect, I do not need to be told.
Also, it's surely understandable that I'm still processing the final shape of things between us, and am still hurt and angry. This guy wanted to be with me for the long run, and he wanted to do everything he could to make that happen. He just also needed to pursue unavailable women. He was NOT in the least bit clear with me about that. So anyone who wants to say 'he was clear with you', 'he showed you who he was' or 'that's the way he is, he's under no obligation to change for you', with the best will in the world, please don't. It's deeply unhelpful, to the point that I'm sitting here rolling my eyes and slightly feeling as though I'm being trolled. Such answers don't help in the least with me having to process the difficulty of the break-up, which is why I asked my question.
I much appreciate the people who have empathised that it's tough and offered advice in that spirit and along those lines. That's the kind of generous answer that makes me really listen and be grateful.
I very, very much appreciate everyone who has taken the time to respond to me – it's kind and generous. But indeed, (while I'm at it) it's also deeply unhelpful for people to tell me I have no moral right to be angry, or that I can't call him pathetic, or that I'm overstepping boundaries. I've been nothing but kind and calm and clear with him, and no person-to-person boundaries are being overstepped. Other than that, I don't castigate my own morality, and I certainly don't police my own head. Please refrain from telling me to do so. It's merely irritating. These aren't the answers I seek.
The people who put empathy and awareness before 'I told you so' or, more inevitably, 'he told you so' in their answer are inherently far more useful and are far more appreciated. I understand how easy it is to take a harsh tone with someone you don't know, but that person is hurting, and is fundamentally asking for empathetic, generous advice. In any case, thank you to everyone for chipping in. It's much appreciated, despite the above misgivings.
I've decided to mark this as resolved because there's no need to pursue such lines of inquiry when people are so keen to say 'he showed you who he was' which is so deeply unhelpful. The answers I've marked as best are ones that are most useful, and I'm happy to run with them, as far as mefi goes!
Thank you.
posted by considerthelilies at 11:38 AM on November 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
Best answer: Don't take people too seriously who are like "this guy had no need to ever grow up!" There's a lot of defensiveness involved with people telling manchildren to grow up, because they've got their own issues with it. They're not talking to you. They're talking to their own exes through you.
You gave him 15 months, and he was unable to step up to the plate. That's about when you needed to cut bait and run, especially if you're looking for kids. You did the right thing.
I think the only way you can forgive him is to just really grok within yourself that he has chosen to be a child and may always be a child. It is up to you what you want to do with that.
posted by corb at 1:49 PM on November 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
You gave him 15 months, and he was unable to step up to the plate. That's about when you needed to cut bait and run, especially if you're looking for kids. You did the right thing.
I think the only way you can forgive him is to just really grok within yourself that he has chosen to be a child and may always be a child. It is up to you what you want to do with that.
posted by corb at 1:49 PM on November 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
Best answer: > I'm slightly annoyed by the tone of some of the other responses here.
As well you might be. But as corb says, they are dealing with their own issues, and you can ignore them. You have every right to be angry, and you should cut yourself plenty of slack and not hurry forgiveness; it will come when or if it comes. After my divorce I never wanted to think about, let alone communicate with, my ex again; after some years we cautiously got back in touch, I sent her my condolences when her new husband died, and now we e-mail fairly often and are on good terms. I long ago forgave her, but I have no idea when or how it happened. You can't rush these things, and I'm not sure it even does much good to think about them. Focus on living your life (one day at a time, as they say), accept your anger (it's as natural as pain after an injury) but don't let it control you, and hang in there. It will get better.
posted by languagehat at 2:08 PM on November 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
As well you might be. But as corb says, they are dealing with their own issues, and you can ignore them. You have every right to be angry, and you should cut yourself plenty of slack and not hurry forgiveness; it will come when or if it comes. After my divorce I never wanted to think about, let alone communicate with, my ex again; after some years we cautiously got back in touch, I sent her my condolences when her new husband died, and now we e-mail fairly often and are on good terms. I long ago forgave her, but I have no idea when or how it happened. You can't rush these things, and I'm not sure it even does much good to think about them. Focus on living your life (one day at a time, as they say), accept your anger (it's as natural as pain after an injury) but don't let it control you, and hang in there. It will get better.
posted by languagehat at 2:08 PM on November 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Wow, I have to say that this is the one of the first times I've seen the MeFi gestalt circle the wagons against the Asker. I'm sorry that this is happening. It's really weird for people to expect you to be some sort of zen, Christ-like robot after having a quite lovely and meaningful relationship that was so important in so many ways, and then have to come to the realization that this wonderful person also simply can't meet your needs.
How brave of you to choose what you needed to choose. You know what you want, and I wish you the best in being able to find it in the future.
posted by Keter at 3:17 PM on November 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
How brave of you to choose what you needed to choose. You know what you want, and I wish you the best in being able to find it in the future.
posted by Keter at 3:17 PM on November 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
If you already have the script in your head that you wanted posters to abide by, why did you need to ask the question, was it just to confirm what you already thought? I don't mean this in a snippy way - you seem to know exactly the answers that you want. In which case, this is great, you know your own mind and you don't really need us at all. But I think it's a little unfair to chastise responders who are attempting to help you in good faith simply because they veered off a script no one knew they were supposed to adhere to.
Why don't you write the answer that you would like to receive yourself? Make it kind, generous and contain everything you'd like to hear. I think it will be really helpful in a self soothing sort of way. You know already what it is you want to be told, so give it a go.
The other thing I would like to say is to cut off contact with him. Seriously, it's impossible to get over someone your always see. I would allow yourself a set amount of time to rant about the unfairness of life with a therapist/friend for a set amount of time each day/ week, and for the rest of the day, you're not allowed to think about it. It will stop it from consuming you. Sorry you're going through this.
posted by Jubey at 4:00 PM on November 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
Why don't you write the answer that you would like to receive yourself? Make it kind, generous and contain everything you'd like to hear. I think it will be really helpful in a self soothing sort of way. You know already what it is you want to be told, so give it a go.
The other thing I would like to say is to cut off contact with him. Seriously, it's impossible to get over someone your always see. I would allow yourself a set amount of time to rant about the unfairness of life with a therapist/friend for a set amount of time each day/ week, and for the rest of the day, you're not allowed to think about it. It will stop it from consuming you. Sorry you're going through this.
posted by Jubey at 4:00 PM on November 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: @jubey - your idea of writing myself a letter is excellent, thank you so much. It does look like I trust myself better than half the respondees on here, so it's clear that I'm best off doing that. Thanks for the thoughts about cutting him off, too.
The reason *I'm* snippy is due to the fact of half the respondees not actually answering the questions I asked -
1. How can I forgive him? (without me having to defend why it's normal, human and natural for me to feel like this after a break-up)
2. Do I need to tell him how angry I am still and why?
3. Or is it best not to dredge it up, talk about it with my therapist and friends (which I do) until it really has left me?
The 'I told you so/he told you so' brigade have jumped at the chance to say stuff that sounds really rather punitive about my supposed inability to see someone for who he they've decided he was, whilst ignoring all the nuances of our relationship as I've described it, in which he was clearly not a fixed entity, wanted to change, and is quite aside from his relationship issues an absolutely first-rate, marvellous human being – a judgement I feel perfectly confident to make. More irritatingly, they've not answered the clear and specific questions I asked. It's not that they're not conforming to a script, as such; rather, their responses lack some of the core features that useful advice should have – ignoring the questions; being punitive rather than empathetic; and most prominently, ignoring the subtleties of the scenario described in order to privilege feeling right. Alas!
That said, I've seen plenty of extraordinarily on-point, thoughtful, wise and useful advice on MeFi, which is why I've asked here. But indeed, on this one, it's clear that I'm best off working it out for myself, so that's what I shall do. Though as I've also said, anyone who's given me wise, thoughtful, smart advice here – about the questions I asked, and about their own experiences with similar things – I am extremely grateful to. More than you know, indeed.
Anyway, no-one else need answer. I got this. Thank you!
Though, @Keter, especially, thank you. Spot on.
posted by considerthelilies at 4:31 PM on November 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
The reason *I'm* snippy is due to the fact of half the respondees not actually answering the questions I asked -
1. How can I forgive him? (without me having to defend why it's normal, human and natural for me to feel like this after a break-up)
2. Do I need to tell him how angry I am still and why?
3. Or is it best not to dredge it up, talk about it with my therapist and friends (which I do) until it really has left me?
The 'I told you so/he told you so' brigade have jumped at the chance to say stuff that sounds really rather punitive about my supposed inability to see someone for who he they've decided he was, whilst ignoring all the nuances of our relationship as I've described it, in which he was clearly not a fixed entity, wanted to change, and is quite aside from his relationship issues an absolutely first-rate, marvellous human being – a judgement I feel perfectly confident to make. More irritatingly, they've not answered the clear and specific questions I asked. It's not that they're not conforming to a script, as such; rather, their responses lack some of the core features that useful advice should have – ignoring the questions; being punitive rather than empathetic; and most prominently, ignoring the subtleties of the scenario described in order to privilege feeling right. Alas!
That said, I've seen plenty of extraordinarily on-point, thoughtful, wise and useful advice on MeFi, which is why I've asked here. But indeed, on this one, it's clear that I'm best off working it out for myself, so that's what I shall do. Though as I've also said, anyone who's given me wise, thoughtful, smart advice here – about the questions I asked, and about their own experiences with similar things – I am extremely grateful to. More than you know, indeed.
Anyway, no-one else need answer. I got this. Thank you!
Though, @Keter, especially, thank you. Spot on.
posted by considerthelilies at 4:31 PM on November 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I had written a lengthy response going on about several of my exes who I'd broken up with because they were incapable of change - to work on their own happiness, to be a better partner, etc. But I deleted that when I realized there's been plenty of other grieving in my life I've dealt with as well, where I've been angry and grieving and having a hard time moving on. Most recently, I lost my twin babies at 5 months in July, and I haven't gotten pregnant again yet.
You aren't just angry, you're grieving. Both of these take time to burn off, but I've found it also takes working things out mentally. Not just letting myself think about it, which is like a broken record - I keep dwelling on things and not moving beyond them. It has to be about getting full thoughts out.
Talking about it with sympathetic friends and family and acquaintances helps a lot. I feel no guilt anymore about talking on things with someone who will lend a friendly ear, even if I don't know them well. Every new person I tell helps, lowers my anger levels a peg each time.
And writing it out. I always feel embarrassed about writing out my thoughts, in case someone will read them... so I write on looseleaf and get rid of it when I'm ready. I write out every factual detail, every emotion, all my nasty thoughts, all my sympathetic thoughts, everything I think I try to write out. It makes me put thoughts in order, make sense of them, and move from one thought to the next. I can dwell on a sentence as I'm writing it out, but I have to finish the thought. And instead of continuing to dwell on the thoughts, I can read them and the other thoughts with them. I've found this helps burn through the worst of the anger.
And when the anger has gone, and you're able to look at things through a dissociated perspective, that is when you'll be able to achieve forgiveness.
on edit, too bad OP. i wrote most of it before you posted.
posted by lizbunny at 4:37 PM on November 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
You aren't just angry, you're grieving. Both of these take time to burn off, but I've found it also takes working things out mentally. Not just letting myself think about it, which is like a broken record - I keep dwelling on things and not moving beyond them. It has to be about getting full thoughts out.
Talking about it with sympathetic friends and family and acquaintances helps a lot. I feel no guilt anymore about talking on things with someone who will lend a friendly ear, even if I don't know them well. Every new person I tell helps, lowers my anger levels a peg each time.
And writing it out. I always feel embarrassed about writing out my thoughts, in case someone will read them... so I write on looseleaf and get rid of it when I'm ready. I write out every factual detail, every emotion, all my nasty thoughts, all my sympathetic thoughts, everything I think I try to write out. It makes me put thoughts in order, make sense of them, and move from one thought to the next. I can dwell on a sentence as I'm writing it out, but I have to finish the thought. And instead of continuing to dwell on the thoughts, I can read them and the other thoughts with them. I've found this helps burn through the worst of the anger.
And when the anger has gone, and you're able to look at things through a dissociated perspective, that is when you'll be able to achieve forgiveness.
on edit, too bad OP. i wrote most of it before you posted.
posted by lizbunny at 4:37 PM on November 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
If you're anything like me, you should end contact for a while. Even beyond when you feel like you've forgiven him. Those feelings can come back so quickly and sometimes you won't even notice they're back until it's like you're breaking up all over again. I think love can be a bit of an addiction, and every time you indulge you're only extending the withdrawal period.
I don't think it would be helpful to discuss your anger with him. And probably not a good idea to keep rehashing it with friends. I think talking to friends is good for the initial feelings dump and therapy is best for the extended recovery.
I'm sorry some of the responses you've received have been so unhelpful. Keep healing and don't let people get you down for processing your complicated feelings.
posted by blackzinfandel at 5:19 PM on November 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't think it would be helpful to discuss your anger with him. And probably not a good idea to keep rehashing it with friends. I think talking to friends is good for the initial feelings dump and therapy is best for the extended recovery.
I'm sorry some of the responses you've received have been so unhelpful. Keep healing and don't let people get you down for processing your complicated feelings.
posted by blackzinfandel at 5:19 PM on November 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Mod note: One comment removed, let's try and keep this focused on answering the question instead of talking about the thread. Asker, that needs to include you; it's totally understandable to be frustrated if you're not getting what you were hoping for but you need to just sort of let that be and focus on helpful responses instead of rebuking folks.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:48 PM on November 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:48 PM on November 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think you are grieving, for good reason. Time. Time will fix things. Just wait. Wait. Wait.
posted by djinn dandy at 7:09 PM on November 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by djinn dandy at 7:09 PM on November 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
All relationships seem really complicated and unique - and they are - but there are patterns, and people here are trying to help you see these patterns and you keep saying, "But! But! But" Protect your heart and learn from this. He had a lot of red flags - a lot! - and if you want to avoid going down this road again, which I assume you really do, you need to learn to see these red flags. Don't beat yourself up about missing these signs, but learn from this.
Sometimes you don't get the answers that you want, but the answers that you need. Yes, be angry, but be smart, move on, and figure out how to not repeat this dead end relationship with another guy.
You seem really fixated on the idea that he wanted to change - a lot of broken people say they want to change, or do want to change, but they can't, and they aren't good partners. This isn't unusual, it's just a sad fact that many people are dysfunctional in relationships but are driven to seek them out. People aren't missing nuance - it's just that your ex was repeating the usual sad lines of bullshit that men who are too immature to handle real intimacy trot out when the going gets tough.
So to answer your specific questions:
1. Time. The anger is a stage. Forgiveness is the end of the process. Be patient.
2. No. Stop talking to him! Clean break!
3. There's a fine line between ruminating excessively and processing, and you'll figure it out.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 9:00 PM on November 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
Sometimes you don't get the answers that you want, but the answers that you need. Yes, be angry, but be smart, move on, and figure out how to not repeat this dead end relationship with another guy.
You seem really fixated on the idea that he wanted to change - a lot of broken people say they want to change, or do want to change, but they can't, and they aren't good partners. This isn't unusual, it's just a sad fact that many people are dysfunctional in relationships but are driven to seek them out. People aren't missing nuance - it's just that your ex was repeating the usual sad lines of bullshit that men who are too immature to handle real intimacy trot out when the going gets tough.
So to answer your specific questions:
1. Time. The anger is a stage. Forgiveness is the end of the process. Be patient.
2. No. Stop talking to him! Clean break!
3. There's a fine line between ruminating excessively and processing, and you'll figure it out.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 9:00 PM on November 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
Best answer: is quite aside from his relationship issues an absolutely first-rate, marvellous human being – a judgement I feel perfectly confident to make.
But this is the confusing, difficult, painful thing, always. One can't put the relationship (or other kind of) issues aside; they are, currently, maybe forever, part and parcel of this person who is otherwise marvellous. The annoying truth is that very few people are 100% horrible (or 100% great).
Those who've talked about grief being important here are right, you're grieving the loss of the first-rate person, and angry at the one with relationship issues - but it's impossible to split him up that way, he's one person.
Deciding what kind of balance is "good enough" is the issue for many; good intentions and self-deception on both sides are what keep people in relationship limbo for too long. Just as ablazingsaddle and jessamyn and others have said, he may well have wanted to change, and just not known how or been able to. (That's usually the case, when people are at odds with the way they want to be.)
You're right that here's no way to know when or if that will change. One can only use the information one has at present. Lots of us call it too late - and seriously, good for you for having given it only 15 months.
1. Nth time - letting immediate feelings pass, reviewing events from multiple perspectives, with the help of friends, therapist, and again, time.
2. No - no contact is the way. Why: his intentions probably weren't to deceive you, they probably weren't even known to him. His response is likely to be disappointing and invalidating (because he didn't mean to be confused, or confusing, or hurt you, in all likelihood). That might leave you even angrier, more confused, more torn - it would prolong the agony. Worse: if he was contrite, you might even have a soft and hopeful moment, and find yourself (despite yourself) wanting to try again - and that would be wrong for both of you, because he's not where he would have to be in order for you to have the kind of life you want. More limbo, more pain. Cutting it off is the best thing.
3. Yes. Exactly what you should do.
(Re my earlier reply: I wasn't able to ask myself questions about how my hope and expectations misled me until some time had passed. That absolutely happened after I was less angry. Anger is a normal immediate response, of course, sorry for suggesting otherwise.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:54 PM on November 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
But this is the confusing, difficult, painful thing, always. One can't put the relationship (or other kind of) issues aside; they are, currently, maybe forever, part and parcel of this person who is otherwise marvellous. The annoying truth is that very few people are 100% horrible (or 100% great).
Those who've talked about grief being important here are right, you're grieving the loss of the first-rate person, and angry at the one with relationship issues - but it's impossible to split him up that way, he's one person.
Deciding what kind of balance is "good enough" is the issue for many; good intentions and self-deception on both sides are what keep people in relationship limbo for too long. Just as ablazingsaddle and jessamyn and others have said, he may well have wanted to change, and just not known how or been able to. (That's usually the case, when people are at odds with the way they want to be.)
You're right that here's no way to know when or if that will change. One can only use the information one has at present. Lots of us call it too late - and seriously, good for you for having given it only 15 months.
1. Nth time - letting immediate feelings pass, reviewing events from multiple perspectives, with the help of friends, therapist, and again, time.
2. No - no contact is the way. Why: his intentions probably weren't to deceive you, they probably weren't even known to him. His response is likely to be disappointing and invalidating (because he didn't mean to be confused, or confusing, or hurt you, in all likelihood). That might leave you even angrier, more confused, more torn - it would prolong the agony. Worse: if he was contrite, you might even have a soft and hopeful moment, and find yourself (despite yourself) wanting to try again - and that would be wrong for both of you, because he's not where he would have to be in order for you to have the kind of life you want. More limbo, more pain. Cutting it off is the best thing.
3. Yes. Exactly what you should do.
(Re my earlier reply: I wasn't able to ask myself questions about how my hope and expectations misled me until some time had passed. That absolutely happened after I was less angry. Anger is a normal immediate response, of course, sorry for suggesting otherwise.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:54 PM on November 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
OP, I totally empathize with you. I was in a similar situation- I posted several times about this person; the person I wanted to spend the rest of my life with despite there being glaring issues in our relationship, and then finally (and painfully) walked away from. It's now been almost a year since our breakup and perhaps my perspective can help you.
I thought we could be friends too. Maybe it was me trying to maintain a connection or something else- like your ex, he was really a great guy and had played such an important part in my life for so long. After the breakup, he would text me, call me, while dating other girls... and that really sucked and was confusing for me. I finally realized that we couldn't be friends. Because I still wanted more. I wanted him to realize what he lost and come crawling back. (yeah, so my ego was pretty bruised). I finally cut him off for good about 4 months after our breakup. Oh, it was hard- like breaking up all over again, but i KNOW it was for the best. Like you, I am in my mid-30s and like you, I want a family. This guy was just wasting my time and the longer I stayed connected to him, the more time he was going to waste.
A year later, it's still hard, but so much easier now that I know there is no hope of us getting back together. I think that is the hardest thing to let go- the hope. I'm going to say that it's okay to be angry at him. You wanted so much for him to be the One and he couldn't deliver. I'm still somewhat angry and my ex too, but I've also forgiven him. I think part of him wanted to be ready and for whatever reason, he wasn't and would never be (with me). Timing- it sucks sometimes.
You say this was the first relationship you've had in eleven years. Well, you should be proud of yourself. You know you have what it takes. Use him as a catalyst- the one who made you see that you can open yourself up to someone- someone who wants that same future with you. Someone who is excited to settle down and can't wait to go on new adventures with you. Because when I look at my friends who are in good, healthy relationships, BOTH partners are on the same page. They both are co-piloting- not just one dragging the other in a direction they're not ready to face (as in my case).
Good luck! Let him go- it will only prolong your suffering; focus on yourself and living the best life you can.
posted by Lillypad331 at 5:56 AM on November 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
I thought we could be friends too. Maybe it was me trying to maintain a connection or something else- like your ex, he was really a great guy and had played such an important part in my life for so long. After the breakup, he would text me, call me, while dating other girls... and that really sucked and was confusing for me. I finally realized that we couldn't be friends. Because I still wanted more. I wanted him to realize what he lost and come crawling back. (yeah, so my ego was pretty bruised). I finally cut him off for good about 4 months after our breakup. Oh, it was hard- like breaking up all over again, but i KNOW it was for the best. Like you, I am in my mid-30s and like you, I want a family. This guy was just wasting my time and the longer I stayed connected to him, the more time he was going to waste.
A year later, it's still hard, but so much easier now that I know there is no hope of us getting back together. I think that is the hardest thing to let go- the hope. I'm going to say that it's okay to be angry at him. You wanted so much for him to be the One and he couldn't deliver. I'm still somewhat angry and my ex too, but I've also forgiven him. I think part of him wanted to be ready and for whatever reason, he wasn't and would never be (with me). Timing- it sucks sometimes.
You say this was the first relationship you've had in eleven years. Well, you should be proud of yourself. You know you have what it takes. Use him as a catalyst- the one who made you see that you can open yourself up to someone- someone who wants that same future with you. Someone who is excited to settle down and can't wait to go on new adventures with you. Because when I look at my friends who are in good, healthy relationships, BOTH partners are on the same page. They both are co-piloting- not just one dragging the other in a direction they're not ready to face (as in my case).
Good luck! Let him go- it will only prolong your suffering; focus on yourself and living the best life you can.
posted by Lillypad331 at 5:56 AM on November 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
I totally empathise too. Thing is, it's very easy to read your post which was written after everything happened and say "oh yes the signs were there all along". When you are lost in the confusing world of someone who makes promises they can't keep and alludes to some kind of "issue" preventing them going forward with what they claim to want it is difficult to see the wood for the trees.
And to answer your questions:
1) You don't need to forgive him, at least not now. Being angry at someone who treated you badly isn't a bad thing. It shows you have self respect. In time the anger may fade and you might be able to be friends. But don't force it. And definitely not now.
2) No. 100% he already knows exactly how angry you are and why.
3) Yes, keep telling friends, therapists, random internet sites, your diary, etc etc how angry you are until you are blue in the face and even starting to bore yourself with it. Get it all out.
posted by intensitymultiply at 7:43 AM on November 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
And to answer your questions:
1) You don't need to forgive him, at least not now. Being angry at someone who treated you badly isn't a bad thing. It shows you have self respect. In time the anger may fade and you might be able to be friends. But don't force it. And definitely not now.
2) No. 100% he already knows exactly how angry you are and why.
3) Yes, keep telling friends, therapists, random internet sites, your diary, etc etc how angry you are until you are blue in the face and even starting to bore yourself with it. Get it all out.
posted by intensitymultiply at 7:43 AM on November 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Sorry for taking ages to respond – I owe more thank yous to the other respondees who said such kind and useful things after I was all 'hey, human relations crew, srsly?'. So, thank you –
@lizbunny – I'm so sorry about your loss earlier this year, and I'm so sorry that you're grieving. I wish you all the best with all of that difficult, complicated stuff and hope it turns out for the very best. Thanks for your excellent advice – especially about talking to people (I very much am!) and writing everything out, which I do – in fact, reading my journal from a very sudden and significant grieving experience from a few years ago has been helping me burn through some feelings here, and I was grateful to have those words from that time.
@blackzinfandel - thank you! Am in therapy. Am using kind friends wisely. Am not in touch with him except for a few logistical matters that need ending/sorting out, but nothing other than that. All good advice!
@cortex - sorry! I totally projected my anger at my ex onto the harsh mefi folk. (It felt good. Oops). I know I should have held back and let the thread take its own direction, and I apologise for that.
@djinn dandy – yes. Time.
@ablazingsaddle – yes, I very much agree about the fact of the red flags (and that people here have been trying to point the existence of them out to me). And the ways in which he pressed my buttons, too. Things I'm addressing in therapy as well as making as conscious as possible to myself (despite the missing him, despite the thinking that he's fantastic) so I can see those red flags and take action without getting further sucked in next time. Thank you for your excellent answers to the specific questions, too.
@cotton dress sock – I really appreciate your answer. It nails that 'truly fantastic person' aspect of my ex in a way that pretty much no-one I've spoken to about has done so far. About the balance, the good intentions and self-deception and not knowing if and when he will change (could be for his next girlfriend, could be in twenty years' time...), and using the present information. Ugh. Tough stuff but so true. And thanks – in fact to everyone – who explained why no contact is so much better, pain and limbo and dragging it out-wise, than the alternative.
@Lillypad311 – I used to lurk on your posts when I was looking for advice about my own relationship! Wishing you loads of strength in continuing to move on past this guy, and for the wishing and pining to trickle down to zero. Have you read this? http://nymag.com/thecut/2014/09/ask-polly-why-dont-men-i-date-ever-love-me.html. Completely agree about both partners being on the same page. One of the best things about leaving someone who isn't is knowing you've given yourself the chance to find someone who is, and sometimes that feels like a huge gift that we've given to ourselves, so we should be grateful and optimistic about it, right? Good luck to you!
@intensitymultiply – thank you. It's so true about how difficult it is to be objective when you're in the middle of something. And I very much like your answers to my questions, it's the final clarification of what so many other people have said about anger, and sticking to those boundaries and safe places until I've expressed and expressed myself so much that there's, one happy day, nothing left except a shrug and a yawn.
Thank you, everyone!
posted by considerthelilies at 3:15 PM on November 25, 2015
@lizbunny – I'm so sorry about your loss earlier this year, and I'm so sorry that you're grieving. I wish you all the best with all of that difficult, complicated stuff and hope it turns out for the very best. Thanks for your excellent advice – especially about talking to people (I very much am!) and writing everything out, which I do – in fact, reading my journal from a very sudden and significant grieving experience from a few years ago has been helping me burn through some feelings here, and I was grateful to have those words from that time.
@blackzinfandel - thank you! Am in therapy. Am using kind friends wisely. Am not in touch with him except for a few logistical matters that need ending/sorting out, but nothing other than that. All good advice!
@cortex - sorry! I totally projected my anger at my ex onto the harsh mefi folk. (It felt good. Oops). I know I should have held back and let the thread take its own direction, and I apologise for that.
@djinn dandy – yes. Time.
@ablazingsaddle – yes, I very much agree about the fact of the red flags (and that people here have been trying to point the existence of them out to me). And the ways in which he pressed my buttons, too. Things I'm addressing in therapy as well as making as conscious as possible to myself (despite the missing him, despite the thinking that he's fantastic) so I can see those red flags and take action without getting further sucked in next time. Thank you for your excellent answers to the specific questions, too.
@cotton dress sock – I really appreciate your answer. It nails that 'truly fantastic person' aspect of my ex in a way that pretty much no-one I've spoken to about has done so far. About the balance, the good intentions and self-deception and not knowing if and when he will change (could be for his next girlfriend, could be in twenty years' time...), and using the present information. Ugh. Tough stuff but so true. And thanks – in fact to everyone – who explained why no contact is so much better, pain and limbo and dragging it out-wise, than the alternative.
@Lillypad311 – I used to lurk on your posts when I was looking for advice about my own relationship! Wishing you loads of strength in continuing to move on past this guy, and for the wishing and pining to trickle down to zero. Have you read this? http://nymag.com/thecut/2014/09/ask-polly-why-dont-men-i-date-ever-love-me.html. Completely agree about both partners being on the same page. One of the best things about leaving someone who isn't is knowing you've given yourself the chance to find someone who is, and sometimes that feels like a huge gift that we've given to ourselves, so we should be grateful and optimistic about it, right? Good luck to you!
@intensitymultiply – thank you. It's so true about how difficult it is to be objective when you're in the middle of something. And I very much like your answers to my questions, it's the final clarification of what so many other people have said about anger, and sticking to those boundaries and safe places until I've expressed and expressed myself so much that there's, one happy day, nothing left except a shrug and a yawn.
Thank you, everyone!
posted by considerthelilies at 3:15 PM on November 25, 2015
« Older Looking for this exact dish drain/drying rack! | Seeking physical therapist in south Austin Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
I'm sorry, that is hard. It's one of the perils of dating (and then not dating) the sort of man you were dating, you feel like the blame is on you for being not relaxed enough and not on them for being a bad partner (or even a "bad fit" partner which is the same but different). I really don't think you need to be hung up on forgiveness, but I think you need to get on board with "We are not a couple, we don't help each other process our feelings until we can come back around to being Just Friends" and for now talk to your therapist and friends about him but the two of you don't process "your relationship" for now.
I dated a guy like this one (a few times, but once notably) and it really wasn't until he was settled down with another woman (one who had a relationship with him that was totally not one I would have tolerated but it worked for her and it works for them and who cares what I think anyhow?) that we could be friends as we were in our we-should-not-have-dated awareness.
It sounds like you get this intellectually but there is a part of you that is like "But if wasn't so FUCKED UP about these things it would have worked!!" but that's sort of specious because, well, he is how he is. You want him to face some stuff. He is not facing that stuff. He might in the future or he might not but that wasn't okay with you. He's also just a little bit younger in a way that might matter a lot. Like maybe when he is your age he has your wisdom about things but for now, does not.
One of the ways I managed this with my self was yes, talking to other people, but also leaving a small door open but putting it way off in the future. Like "I will revisit this in five years and if it's the worst mistake I ever made (breaking up) then we can talk about it." And really, after a year or so I was shaking my head that I had wanted to make it work with someone so badly who didn't want to make it work with me. You sound capable and competent. He does not (or maybe is in his own way) that is a recipe for a bad fit. Hold that in your heart for now as you move forward and remember that you can be friends but that as a friend he can still be a commitment-phobe, follow impossible women and all the other stuff that you dislike, so think about how that will work out for you. For now, have good boundaries about helping him process his own feelings (he can do that on his own, for example) and be kind to yourself.
posted by jessamyn at 8:34 AM on November 22, 2015 [14 favorites]