How do I know whether it's worth giving my relationship a shot?
April 21, 2015 6:11 PM Subscribe
I'm so confused about my relationship that I've taken to MeFi to ask for advice – any thoughts would be hugely appreciated. My boyfriend of almost one year is 29; I'm 34. He's kind, caring and all-round deeply lovely, we get on absolutely brilliantly, have loads in common and I feel incredibly comfortable and happy around him. Life is sweet. Except two not-so-tiny things: he's scared of commitment and doesn't ever want to talk about my ticking biological clock. How much time do I give this?
I'm driving myself nuts by trying to see into the future with this. This is the first proper relationship I've had for years and years, and I marvel at how well I get on with my boyfriend, what good friends we're turning into, and how much fun we have together. It feels incredibly rare, given how hard it was to find him (all the frogs before this prince, etc!) and it would feel horrendous to give it up. He's exceptionally kind, sweet and adoring – and also both the smartest and funniest person I've ever met and one of the few men who shares my ruling twin passions of writing and music. I can't ever quite believe how well we get on – I look forward to seeing him all the time. And we have amazing sex. AND he cooks for me while I get on with my writing. Couldn't be better, right?
Except...except...well, so, as said, I'm almost five years' older than him. I am 1) financially secure and pretty organised/on the ball 2) very driven 3) an introvert (in the classic sense that I need to spend a *lot* of time alone to recharge myself 4) my ideal night is spent at home reading books 5) I'm ready to commit and 6) after a lot of soul-searching the past few years, I know I definitely want children. I've even had my fertility checked; I'm serious about it!
He is 1) an unemployed – but very, very talented – musician who can be fairly useless/lazy 2) nowhere near as driven as me 3) an extrovert 4) his ideal night, which he does almost every night of the week, is going out drinking 5) in the past year he's 98% 'shown up' as a committed boyfriend, absolutely, but he has unresolved issues around love and commitment and 6) he's not sure if he wants children.
I know he'll get a job and I also very much support his music career. I'm not too worried about the introversion/extroversion thing as he's very understanding and the balance has worked out well enough, I guess, so far, except it's a funny thing to have a boyfriend whose job is performing onstage in the evenings when my passion involves me staying at home alone, writing. But I can mostly deal with this okay. Also, he's the best editor of my writing I've yet come across – patient, supportive and incisive – which is no minor thing.
As for issues around love and commitment, well, I understand them. I'm a very different person to the confused, closed-up woman I was at 29, partly thanks to some good therapy. My 29-yr-old boyfriend is definitely scared of love – due to his parents' relationship, he unconsciously equates it with being trapped and miserable. He's even had panic attacks in past relationships and has had therapy as a result, though he couldn't afford much. He's very conscious of his fears and does want them to go away, though he's not sure if they will (personally, I think time will do the work for him, because he *is* so conscious). In any case, it means he's yet to say he loves me, even though we've been going out for a year and he's very, very loving towards me. I guess because I've done work around my own damage, I'm pretty accepting about his stuff, and he seems to flourish when I remain so and he's not being pressurised.
Also – I'm not 100% sure if I love him, too. It wavers. But both of us only being certain about definitely, definitely LIKING each other makes me very anxious. While he's unwilling to let go and 100% commit, and I'm, as a result, holding onto my much-valued independence, it doesn't feel like all those relationships everywhere else where people seem to be flaunting their love or falling irresistibly in love or just 'know' that it's right. This seems far more gritty and tricky and imperfect.
In any case, I'm most worried about the babies thing. My boyfriend knew before we got together (when we were just friends) that I wanted children in my mid/late 30s, so it was always a 'thing'. Until recently, I brought it up quite a lot, triggered by my enormous fear that he might be wasting my time. But by pushing for a certainty that he couldn't give me, I made him pull away – and last month we almost broke up because of it. Things have been much, much better since I got a grip on my fear and completely stopped talking about it (and he turned 29...). He still knows he can't 'waste my time' and is adamant it's on his mind. Even so, I'm privately very conflicted; my biological clock is ticking and I'm with someone five years younger who is absolutely wonderful and magnificent yet doesn't know what he wants & can still sometimes be an utter clueless manchild. This terrifies me.
As it stands, he'd be a great father and he knows it. He has fantastic parents and has often hypothetically alluded to being as dedicated as they are if he had kids. (They gave everything up, including their own fulfilment, for their kids, which clearly plays a part in his unconscious resistance to all this...) In any case, I emphasise the hypothetical; all such chat about dedication seems incredibly abstract. He really can't seem to fathom having children. Nor could I at 29, I guess, but how do I know whether or not he'll change!?
I have a deadline in my head; if we're still together in 18 months' time, he'll be well over 30 by then and maybe things will have changed for him. If not, I guess we'll have to break up, as I'll be getting onto 36. But I [cue whine] reaaaaallly don't want to. Either way, I'm obsessively trying to predict what'll happen, but I just want to be able to live in the moment. It seems that when I'm present and not worried about the future, we flourish. As long as I don't push him for certainty, he relaxes and things are good.
Am I being naive, though? Any advice would be super appreciated. Thank you so much!
I'm driving myself nuts by trying to see into the future with this. This is the first proper relationship I've had for years and years, and I marvel at how well I get on with my boyfriend, what good friends we're turning into, and how much fun we have together. It feels incredibly rare, given how hard it was to find him (all the frogs before this prince, etc!) and it would feel horrendous to give it up. He's exceptionally kind, sweet and adoring – and also both the smartest and funniest person I've ever met and one of the few men who shares my ruling twin passions of writing and music. I can't ever quite believe how well we get on – I look forward to seeing him all the time. And we have amazing sex. AND he cooks for me while I get on with my writing. Couldn't be better, right?
Except...except...well, so, as said, I'm almost five years' older than him. I am 1) financially secure and pretty organised/on the ball 2) very driven 3) an introvert (in the classic sense that I need to spend a *lot* of time alone to recharge myself 4) my ideal night is spent at home reading books 5) I'm ready to commit and 6) after a lot of soul-searching the past few years, I know I definitely want children. I've even had my fertility checked; I'm serious about it!
He is 1) an unemployed – but very, very talented – musician who can be fairly useless/lazy 2) nowhere near as driven as me 3) an extrovert 4) his ideal night, which he does almost every night of the week, is going out drinking 5) in the past year he's 98% 'shown up' as a committed boyfriend, absolutely, but he has unresolved issues around love and commitment and 6) he's not sure if he wants children.
I know he'll get a job and I also very much support his music career. I'm not too worried about the introversion/extroversion thing as he's very understanding and the balance has worked out well enough, I guess, so far, except it's a funny thing to have a boyfriend whose job is performing onstage in the evenings when my passion involves me staying at home alone, writing. But I can mostly deal with this okay. Also, he's the best editor of my writing I've yet come across – patient, supportive and incisive – which is no minor thing.
As for issues around love and commitment, well, I understand them. I'm a very different person to the confused, closed-up woman I was at 29, partly thanks to some good therapy. My 29-yr-old boyfriend is definitely scared of love – due to his parents' relationship, he unconsciously equates it with being trapped and miserable. He's even had panic attacks in past relationships and has had therapy as a result, though he couldn't afford much. He's very conscious of his fears and does want them to go away, though he's not sure if they will (personally, I think time will do the work for him, because he *is* so conscious). In any case, it means he's yet to say he loves me, even though we've been going out for a year and he's very, very loving towards me. I guess because I've done work around my own damage, I'm pretty accepting about his stuff, and he seems to flourish when I remain so and he's not being pressurised.
Also – I'm not 100% sure if I love him, too. It wavers. But both of us only being certain about definitely, definitely LIKING each other makes me very anxious. While he's unwilling to let go and 100% commit, and I'm, as a result, holding onto my much-valued independence, it doesn't feel like all those relationships everywhere else where people seem to be flaunting their love or falling irresistibly in love or just 'know' that it's right. This seems far more gritty and tricky and imperfect.
In any case, I'm most worried about the babies thing. My boyfriend knew before we got together (when we were just friends) that I wanted children in my mid/late 30s, so it was always a 'thing'. Until recently, I brought it up quite a lot, triggered by my enormous fear that he might be wasting my time. But by pushing for a certainty that he couldn't give me, I made him pull away – and last month we almost broke up because of it. Things have been much, much better since I got a grip on my fear and completely stopped talking about it (and he turned 29...). He still knows he can't 'waste my time' and is adamant it's on his mind. Even so, I'm privately very conflicted; my biological clock is ticking and I'm with someone five years younger who is absolutely wonderful and magnificent yet doesn't know what he wants & can still sometimes be an utter clueless manchild. This terrifies me.
As it stands, he'd be a great father and he knows it. He has fantastic parents and has often hypothetically alluded to being as dedicated as they are if he had kids. (They gave everything up, including their own fulfilment, for their kids, which clearly plays a part in his unconscious resistance to all this...) In any case, I emphasise the hypothetical; all such chat about dedication seems incredibly abstract. He really can't seem to fathom having children. Nor could I at 29, I guess, but how do I know whether or not he'll change!?
I have a deadline in my head; if we're still together in 18 months' time, he'll be well over 30 by then and maybe things will have changed for him. If not, I guess we'll have to break up, as I'll be getting onto 36. But I [cue whine] reaaaaallly don't want to. Either way, I'm obsessively trying to predict what'll happen, but I just want to be able to live in the moment. It seems that when I'm present and not worried about the future, we flourish. As long as I don't push him for certainty, he relaxes and things are good.
Am I being naive, though? Any advice would be super appreciated. Thank you so much!
I typed up a lot, but I think you should really just read this article by Mark Manson: Fuck Yes, Or No.
> If you’re in the grey area [where feelings are ambiguous or one person has stronger feelings than the other] to begin with, you’ve already lost.
> Let me ask again: Why would you ever be excited to be with someone who is not excited to be with you? If they’re not happy with you now, what makes you think they’ll be happy to be with you later? Why do you make an effort to convince someone to date you when they make no effort to convince you?
You say that he's happy with you, but he's not 100% happy with you, or he would have committed. Don't bank on him ever being "fixed".
posted by ethidda at 6:26 PM on April 21, 2015 [18 favorites]
> If you’re in the grey area [where feelings are ambiguous or one person has stronger feelings than the other] to begin with, you’ve already lost.
> Let me ask again: Why would you ever be excited to be with someone who is not excited to be with you? If they’re not happy with you now, what makes you think they’ll be happy to be with you later? Why do you make an effort to convince someone to date you when they make no effort to convince you?
You say that he's happy with you, but he's not 100% happy with you, or he would have committed. Don't bank on him ever being "fixed".
posted by ethidda at 6:26 PM on April 21, 2015 [18 favorites]
My 29-yr-old boyfriend is definitely scared of love – due to his parents' relationship, he unconsciously equates it with being trapped and miserable.
personally, I think time will do the work for him, because he *is* so conscious
You two have been together a year but haven't said "I love you;" he admittedly has issues about commitment; you're in high anxiety; you two almost just broke up... Time, yeah, but like, what if it's 12 years of time? You need a plan for working through what sound like some complex issues. What about couples therapy as a way of devoting one hour per week to this?
I have seen people work through similar stuff -- in fact, almost every time someone shared their real "how we decided to get married" story, it involved one party feeling ready while the other had some serious doubts about marriage or parenthood. But what I've learned from these stories is that those issues did not start to shift until the couple started working to shift them. In these stories, no matter how much the "ready" person tried to "be cool" or "patient" or "give them space," things did not shift until the couple started to really work on it. I don't have a huge sample size so YMMV, but my two cents is that even if your ultimate deadline is 18 months away, you should start taking action now to make a decision sooner.
posted by salvia at 6:34 PM on April 21, 2015 [6 favorites]
personally, I think time will do the work for him, because he *is* so conscious
You two have been together a year but haven't said "I love you;" he admittedly has issues about commitment; you're in high anxiety; you two almost just broke up... Time, yeah, but like, what if it's 12 years of time? You need a plan for working through what sound like some complex issues. What about couples therapy as a way of devoting one hour per week to this?
I have seen people work through similar stuff -- in fact, almost every time someone shared their real "how we decided to get married" story, it involved one party feeling ready while the other had some serious doubts about marriage or parenthood. But what I've learned from these stories is that those issues did not start to shift until the couple started working to shift them. In these stories, no matter how much the "ready" person tried to "be cool" or "patient" or "give them space," things did not shift until the couple started to really work on it. I don't have a huge sample size so YMMV, but my two cents is that even if your ultimate deadline is 18 months away, you should start taking action now to make a decision sooner.
posted by salvia at 6:34 PM on April 21, 2015 [6 favorites]
- He drinks every night and is financially unstable. He will be a terrible father.
- I've been you. I married the other guy, who is an AWESOME man, at the last minute in the 11th hour biological clock-wise. Son born just under the wire, we're sad there's only one child.
This popped out at me :"But by pushing for a certainty that he couldn't give me, I made him pull away – and last month we almost broke up because of it."
Let him this boy(friend) go. You need a man.
Married a boy (together 6 years) at 29. Divorced by 32. Married again at 38, happy ever since!
Ditch this guy now and make way for your life mate. I wasted 6 years in between marriages on a guy who was never gonna put a ring on it and who would have been a terrible husband through life's difficulties, to boot!, if we had gotten married.... Girl, I dodged a bullet at the very last second and was lucky enough to win the jackpot afterwards -- don't be me.
Your goal of family and marriage trumps this guy's immaturity. Go get what you want, waiting around doesn't work. Too risky with the continual drinking. Sorry.
You'll get what you want. Make room for it to happen by not compromising. Sorry this isn't what you wanted to hear.
posted by jbenben at 6:39 PM on April 21, 2015 [55 favorites]
- I've been you. I married the other guy, who is an AWESOME man, at the last minute in the 11th hour biological clock-wise. Son born just under the wire, we're sad there's only one child.
This popped out at me :"But by pushing for a certainty that he couldn't give me, I made him pull away – and last month we almost broke up because of it."
Let him this boy(friend) go. You need a man.
Married a boy (together 6 years) at 29. Divorced by 32. Married again at 38, happy ever since!
Ditch this guy now and make way for your life mate. I wasted 6 years in between marriages on a guy who was never gonna put a ring on it and who would have been a terrible husband through life's difficulties, to boot!, if we had gotten married.... Girl, I dodged a bullet at the very last second and was lucky enough to win the jackpot afterwards -- don't be me.
Your goal of family and marriage trumps this guy's immaturity. Go get what you want, waiting around doesn't work. Too risky with the continual drinking. Sorry.
You'll get what you want. Make room for it to happen by not compromising. Sorry this isn't what you wanted to hear.
posted by jbenben at 6:39 PM on April 21, 2015 [55 favorites]
You're being naive if you think he'll change at 30. Realistically, right now he acts more like a 24 year old. At 30, he may act more like a 25 year old.
Date other people.
You can either keep seeing him or not, but date other people.
Don't put all your (literal and metaphorical) eggs in this basket.
posted by quincunx at 6:40 PM on April 21, 2015 [14 favorites]
Date other people.
You can either keep seeing him or not, but date other people.
Don't put all your (literal and metaphorical) eggs in this basket.
posted by quincunx at 6:40 PM on April 21, 2015 [14 favorites]
I have a deadline in my head; if we're still together in 18 months' time, he'll be well over 30 by then and maybe things will have changed for him. If not, I guess we'll have to break up, as I'll be getting onto 36.
So you think he's way too immature now — but maybe he'll be mature enough after you've been together for an extra 51% of the time you've been together so far? Whaaa??? That doesn't make a lot of sense. You should decide right now if you want to be with him. You've been with him a year — the person you've seen for a year, is who he is. You already know what you need to know to make your decision.
posted by John Cohen at 6:43 PM on April 21, 2015 [22 favorites]
So you think he's way too immature now — but maybe he'll be mature enough after you've been together for an extra 51% of the time you've been together so far? Whaaa??? That doesn't make a lot of sense. You should decide right now if you want to be with him. You've been with him a year — the person you've seen for a year, is who he is. You already know what you need to know to make your decision.
posted by John Cohen at 6:43 PM on April 21, 2015 [22 favorites]
I'm sorry for saying this but:
1) time marches on
2) no, really, time marches on
3) many of my closest friends have failed this test -- that is to say, they have declined to decide until after Time has decided for them
...thus...
4) find someone else
posted by aramaic at 6:47 PM on April 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
1) time marches on
2) no, really, time marches on
3) many of my closest friends have failed this test -- that is to say, they have declined to decide until after Time has decided for them
...thus...
4) find someone else
posted by aramaic at 6:47 PM on April 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
Dude I dated this guy (five years younger musician good at reading my writing etc etc) for not as long though - and he dumped me because he was ready for a commitment, just not with me. I'm dating another guy who is almost four years younger than me and is a great musician but has his head on way straighter.
Some guys can do the older woman/ticking clock thing just fine and some 100% cannot deal. I don't even blame them, society tells them they have all the time in the world.
Still though I'm glad he dumped me or I'd be in your spot. Getting over him was hard and I miss him but I'm glad it happened and glad to move on to get more of what I want and not always be seen as an older lady.
posted by sweetkid at 6:48 PM on April 21, 2015
Some guys can do the older woman/ticking clock thing just fine and some 100% cannot deal. I don't even blame them, society tells them they have all the time in the world.
Still though I'm glad he dumped me or I'd be in your spot. Getting over him was hard and I miss him but I'm glad it happened and glad to move on to get more of what I want and not always be seen as an older lady.
posted by sweetkid at 6:48 PM on April 21, 2015
It seems that when I'm present and not worried about the future, we flourish. As long as I don't push him for certainty, he relaxes and things are good.
I don't like that things are only good and he can only relax when you're not being honest about something that worries you. Is that the kind of person you want to be a parent forever with?
posted by bleep at 6:48 PM on April 21, 2015 [71 favorites]
I don't like that things are only good and he can only relax when you're not being honest about something that worries you. Is that the kind of person you want to be a parent forever with?
posted by bleep at 6:48 PM on April 21, 2015 [71 favorites]
I think it depends on how comfortable you are with things as they are now. He doesn't sound anywhere near "ready" to me, but if you really enjoy your time with him and really can "live in the moment", with no further expectation, taking him for who he is, at the stage of life he's in, things might be fine for a little while. 34 isn't the end of the world as far as baby-making time's concerned, and neither is 36 (assuming your fertility check came up ok). You could call it then, sure. (Do you trust that you would?)
Since you know you want kids, though, that might leave you feeling, well, urgent about it at 36-40. And how well do you think you'd be able to compartmentalize your desire to make long-term plans? And yeah, the drinking every night... I guess you have to decide how good you feel about that.
I think if you feel anxious about being unable to make plans with him, it's better to make room for someone who can.
(^^That is my considered response. My first and gut-level response was: "don't waste time".)
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:49 PM on April 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
Since you know you want kids, though, that might leave you feeling, well, urgent about it at 36-40. And how well do you think you'd be able to compartmentalize your desire to make long-term plans? And yeah, the drinking every night... I guess you have to decide how good you feel about that.
I think if you feel anxious about being unable to make plans with him, it's better to make room for someone who can.
(^^That is my considered response. My first and gut-level response was: "don't waste time".)
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:49 PM on April 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
You're a year in, your lifestyles don't match, you aren't sure if he'll ever come around to wanting the kids that are so important to you, and this: Also – I'm not 100% sure if I love him, too.
You've fallen in love with his potential. With what he could be with therapy, maturity, and massive change. This is not the place you want to be if you're trying to decide if he's partner material. You don't want an immature fellow who could be everything you want, but isn't. You want to have someone who wants the same things you do in terms of partnership and family and you want someone who already has your non-negotiables covered. You'll never find the perfect person who is perfect in every way. But, if you make yourself available now, you have a good chance of finding someone who is ready for what you want and who also has achieved lots of their potential.
posted by quince at 6:49 PM on April 21, 2015 [20 favorites]
You've fallen in love with his potential. With what he could be with therapy, maturity, and massive change. This is not the place you want to be if you're trying to decide if he's partner material. You don't want an immature fellow who could be everything you want, but isn't. You want to have someone who wants the same things you do in terms of partnership and family and you want someone who already has your non-negotiables covered. You'll never find the perfect person who is perfect in every way. But, if you make yourself available now, you have a good chance of finding someone who is ready for what you want and who also has achieved lots of their potential.
posted by quince at 6:49 PM on April 21, 2015 [20 favorites]
If you're not in love and can't build a life together, the rest doesn't matter.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:54 PM on April 21, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:54 PM on April 21, 2015 [9 favorites]
You're wasting your time hanging around waiting for this guy to magically change into the kind of man you want. Leave him and look for someone who already is husband and father material, i.e., employed, doesn't drink more than moderately, and very much wants to be with you and have children.
posted by orange swan at 6:54 PM on April 21, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 6:54 PM on April 21, 2015 [6 favorites]
Well, you're equal in that neither of you is 100%. It sounds like you both really like each other, which is a great start for a relationship; however, it also sounds like your ultimate goals and values are different. It's really up to you: you could just enjoy the status quo (assuming you're enjoying it) or you could end things. If you break up, you may be relieved and find a partner with similar goals right away or you could never find that partner and regret leaving this one. Or you could stay together and both make compromises that lead both of you to happiness or you could grow to really resent each other.
If you're not ready to decide yet, how about taking a break for a month or two? We could give you all the advice in the world but, in the end, it's really what your heart, head, and gut are telling you. You don't have to decide yet but I find your 18-month deadline to be a bit too long. How about six months? One great piece of relationship advice a friend gave me is that when it's time, it's time and you'll know it; you can sense an end but there's no requirement to immediately end it, and instead simply enjoy the ride while it lasts (a little longer.)
Finally, are you asking permission to break up or permission to stay together? Or maybe are you just testing the waters for now?
posted by smorgasbord at 6:55 PM on April 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you're not ready to decide yet, how about taking a break for a month or two? We could give you all the advice in the world but, in the end, it's really what your heart, head, and gut are telling you. You don't have to decide yet but I find your 18-month deadline to be a bit too long. How about six months? One great piece of relationship advice a friend gave me is that when it's time, it's time and you'll know it; you can sense an end but there's no requirement to immediately end it, and instead simply enjoy the ride while it lasts (a little longer.)
Finally, are you asking permission to break up or permission to stay together? Or maybe are you just testing the waters for now?
posted by smorgasbord at 6:55 PM on April 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
I commented once already, but I'd also question the 18-month timeline.
Suppose in 18 months he decides he wants to become a father. Do you guys want to get married first, or do you not care about that? If you do care, how long does that take? (Crazy longer than you think it should take.) Then how long do you spend trying to conceive? I think most insurance plans require that you've been trying to conceive for at least six months before they'll start helping, and then how long do those interventions take?
Or suppose in 18 months you finally give up on him. How long would you spend getting over him? Then would you start online dating to find someone new? How long would that take? (A year?) Then how long do you guys stay together to make sure you're a good match (i.e., that he doesn't have some anger problem that hasn't surfaced yet) -- another year? Then you start trying to conceive and how long does that take? Or do you skip finding someone and go the single-motherhood sperm bank route? How long does it take to go through the whole sperm donation process, and how much does that cost?
I'm sorry, I know all of this is very anxiety producing. That's why I'd keep the conversation with him moving forward as quickly as possible and not force yourself just to chill out. Unlike most people here, I'm not jumping to DTMFA because I've seen people (a lot of people, actually) change their mind on these things. But I would start to call the question now, not wait 18 months to do so.
posted by salvia at 6:56 PM on April 21, 2015 [10 favorites]
Suppose in 18 months he decides he wants to become a father. Do you guys want to get married first, or do you not care about that? If you do care, how long does that take? (Crazy longer than you think it should take.) Then how long do you spend trying to conceive? I think most insurance plans require that you've been trying to conceive for at least six months before they'll start helping, and then how long do those interventions take?
Or suppose in 18 months you finally give up on him. How long would you spend getting over him? Then would you start online dating to find someone new? How long would that take? (A year?) Then how long do you guys stay together to make sure you're a good match (i.e., that he doesn't have some anger problem that hasn't surfaced yet) -- another year? Then you start trying to conceive and how long does that take? Or do you skip finding someone and go the single-motherhood sperm bank route? How long does it take to go through the whole sperm donation process, and how much does that cost?
I'm sorry, I know all of this is very anxiety producing. That's why I'd keep the conversation with him moving forward as quickly as possible and not force yourself just to chill out. Unlike most people here, I'm not jumping to DTMFA because I've seen people (a lot of people, actually) change their mind on these things. But I would start to call the question now, not wait 18 months to do so.
posted by salvia at 6:56 PM on April 21, 2015 [10 favorites]
I have known more than one person going through this, who ended up getting pregnant accidentally (even I don't know if that word belongs between quotation marks). In some cases they ended up married, and in some cases she ended up a single mom who claims to be the happiest she's ever been. If I were you, I'd break it off, but if I were someone else I might just get knocked up and see how it goes. I don't recommend that course of action, but it exists.
posted by masquesoporfavor at 7:04 PM on April 21, 2015
posted by masquesoporfavor at 7:04 PM on April 21, 2015
To borrow a quote from Lyle Lovett, if he were the man that you wanted, he would not be the man that he is.
posted by 4ster at 7:15 PM on April 21, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by 4ster at 7:15 PM on April 21, 2015 [10 favorites]
I mean, it does sound like you're getting something important from this relationship. When you talk about "love", you're referencing commitment and anxiety around that, which is understandable, but also what sounds [to me] like a bit of idealized Hollywood stuff. But when you talk about your actual connection, how you feel about each other, it sounds like something nourishing is happening. It sounds like you've been through a hard time, and this is a nice time, and there's nothing wrong with a nice time. I think it's a mistake to want more from it than that, though. [The drinking, though, that's not great.]
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:20 PM on April 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:20 PM on April 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
Is he ready to _start getting ready_? If he needs to work through some issues either way, then he might as well start doing that now -- then, when your 18 month deadline comes up, he should be a lot clearer about what he really wants and what he's willing to give for it. I realize you said he can't pay a lot for therapy, but maybe if he had that as his own goal (outside of your relationship), he could figure something out in a month or two.
posted by amtho at 7:24 PM on April 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by amtho at 7:24 PM on April 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
You're not in love. He's not ready, and that's important, but it's something maybe you could work through -- IF you were in love. But you're not, either of you.
posted by J. Wilson at 7:28 PM on April 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by J. Wilson at 7:28 PM on April 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
He sounds charming. I don't mean that in a good way.
Fun, artistic, talented extroverts can make you feel wonderful. Especially if you're an introvert who has been lonely for a while. I dated a person like this, and it took years to realize that the qualities I thought I loved in him were really qualities I had that he was reflecting back to me. I don't think he was trying to be a chameleon in any kind of dishonest way -- he just was so good at getting along with people that everyone, including me, was free to imagine him to be exactly the person they wanted him to be.
I get the sense that you are filling in a lot of blanks here. He's scared of commitment... because of his parents' relationship. He has no job... but you know he'll get one. He appears to equate love with being trapped and miserable... but you're confident time will do the work of sorting that out. When you press about the future he is openly resistant to the idea of kids... but you know he'd be a great father. What if you're seeing things through rose-colored glasses?
You say it would "feel horrendous to give it up." But do you actually HAVE what you think you would be giving up? I had a rough time ending the relationship when I was in a similar situation. But I realized later that what I was mourning wasn't the actual relationship, it was the idea of what the relationship could/should/would be, but wasn't.
posted by selfmedicating at 7:34 PM on April 21, 2015 [64 favorites]
Fun, artistic, talented extroverts can make you feel wonderful. Especially if you're an introvert who has been lonely for a while. I dated a person like this, and it took years to realize that the qualities I thought I loved in him were really qualities I had that he was reflecting back to me. I don't think he was trying to be a chameleon in any kind of dishonest way -- he just was so good at getting along with people that everyone, including me, was free to imagine him to be exactly the person they wanted him to be.
I get the sense that you are filling in a lot of blanks here. He's scared of commitment... because of his parents' relationship. He has no job... but you know he'll get one. He appears to equate love with being trapped and miserable... but you're confident time will do the work of sorting that out. When you press about the future he is openly resistant to the idea of kids... but you know he'd be a great father. What if you're seeing things through rose-colored glasses?
You say it would "feel horrendous to give it up." But do you actually HAVE what you think you would be giving up? I had a rough time ending the relationship when I was in a similar situation. But I realized later that what I was mourning wasn't the actual relationship, it was the idea of what the relationship could/should/would be, but wasn't.
posted by selfmedicating at 7:34 PM on April 21, 2015 [64 favorites]
I feel like you're offering up a lot of reasons why his feelings about this are unique, but sadly, OP, your description - which I would, uncharitably, describe as "man child" - is super dooper not unique, it is in fact a Type.
OP, there are 29 year olds out there who have their shit together, and want kids if not now then in the future. They have jobs, they even have careers, they don't go out every night pissing it up.
Anybody my age - mid thirties - has seen this story play out with friends many times by now. Boyfriend refuses to concretely commit, makes ambiguous mewlings about maybe changing in the future, explains that a family history - experienced by thousands of other people with their shit together and a desire to commit to a serious relationship - is preventing them from having kids/getting married/getting a job/not gaming until 4 am every night. Girlfriend waits, with mounting sadness, and usually growing resentment. Girlfriend then breaks up and finds someone who is willing to settle down; or boyfriend's behaviour gets progressively shittier trying to "force" a break up. It's a thing. And this fairy tale rarely has a happy ending.
You know what the deal is, dude. In your heart. That's why you posted this question right, to get the courage to put yourself out there and demand the kind of relationship you deserve and is waiting for you. Do it. You will not regret breaking up with a 30 year old who lives like they're 18. I promise you.
posted by smoke at 7:36 PM on April 21, 2015 [44 favorites]
OP, there are 29 year olds out there who have their shit together, and want kids if not now then in the future. They have jobs, they even have careers, they don't go out every night pissing it up.
Anybody my age - mid thirties - has seen this story play out with friends many times by now. Boyfriend refuses to concretely commit, makes ambiguous mewlings about maybe changing in the future, explains that a family history - experienced by thousands of other people with their shit together and a desire to commit to a serious relationship - is preventing them from having kids/getting married/getting a job/not gaming until 4 am every night. Girlfriend waits, with mounting sadness, and usually growing resentment. Girlfriend then breaks up and finds someone who is willing to settle down; or boyfriend's behaviour gets progressively shittier trying to "force" a break up. It's a thing. And this fairy tale rarely has a happy ending.
You know what the deal is, dude. In your heart. That's why you posted this question right, to get the courage to put yourself out there and demand the kind of relationship you deserve and is waiting for you. Do it. You will not regret breaking up with a 30 year old who lives like they're 18. I promise you.
posted by smoke at 7:36 PM on April 21, 2015 [44 favorites]
When I was your age, my older best friend said to me, "If you want to have a child, you need to explicitly deal with this with your current partner, right now, or end the relationship and move on. Don't waste any more time." So now I'm going to be the one to lay this on you: If you want to have a chlid, you need to explicitly deal with this with your current partner, right now, or end the relationship and move on. Don't waste any more time.
(Mr. BlahLaLa decided he wanted a kid, too. Our kid is now 12. We are very happy.)
posted by BlahLaLa at 7:37 PM on April 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
(Mr. BlahLaLa decided he wanted a kid, too. Our kid is now 12. We are very happy.)
posted by BlahLaLa at 7:37 PM on April 21, 2015 [5 favorites]
I am 1) financially secure and pretty organised/on the ball 2) very driven
and
He is 1) an unemployed – but very, very talented – musician who can be fairly useless/lazy... and 4) his ideal night, which he does almost every night of the week, is going out drinking
If you value your happiness, please do not have children with this man.
posted by Under the Sea at 7:37 PM on April 21, 2015 [22 favorites]
and
He is 1) an unemployed – but very, very talented – musician who can be fairly useless/lazy... and 4) his ideal night, which he does almost every night of the week, is going out drinking
If you value your happiness, please do not have children with this man.
posted by Under the Sea at 7:37 PM on April 21, 2015 [22 favorites]
I was the man in this story two years ago, down to the ages. The details are a bit different, but the general idea's the same. She spent a lot of energy trying to turn me into a prince, but we had different goals even though we were superficially in compatible places in our lives. I wish I'd been able to be honest with myself about that sooner, since we both hurt each other pretty badly.
The story has a happy-ish ending: After a really shitty breakup, she got together with a guy she'd been interested in since before we met, who had values and goals very much in line with her own. They're now married. No idea if they've got kids but I'm sure they're trying. Whenever I see her content on social media (we have mutual friends, still) she seems happy. I'm doing my thing, happily, in a way I wouldn't be able to if I'd forced myself to be someone I'm not.
posted by Alterscape at 7:47 PM on April 21, 2015 [18 favorites]
The story has a happy-ish ending: After a really shitty breakup, she got together with a guy she'd been interested in since before we met, who had values and goals very much in line with her own. They're now married. No idea if they've got kids but I'm sure they're trying. Whenever I see her content on social media (we have mutual friends, still) she seems happy. I'm doing my thing, happily, in a way I wouldn't be able to if I'd forced myself to be someone I'm not.
posted by Alterscape at 7:47 PM on April 21, 2015 [18 favorites]
I see others have interpreted you as saying you're going to wait an extra 18 months after today. When I wrote my previous comment, I had thought you meant you'll wait till you've been together for 18 months. So I should have said you're talking about waiting an extra 151% of the time you've been together, not an extra 51%. I still stand by my comment.
You're talking about waiting till you're 35 or 36 to stay in this relationship and then reconsider. Meanwhile, have you looked at the statistics on how the risk of birth defects relates to the age of the mother when she gives birth? The risk starts going up and up significantly at 35 and every year after. It might not be popular to say ... by biology doesn't care about popularity.
The 18 months is time you could be spending finding someone new rather than waiting for something that probably isn't going to happen.
posted by John Cohen at 8:04 PM on April 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
You're talking about waiting till you're 35 or 36 to stay in this relationship and then reconsider. Meanwhile, have you looked at the statistics on how the risk of birth defects relates to the age of the mother when she gives birth? The risk starts going up and up significantly at 35 and every year after. It might not be popular to say ... by biology doesn't care about popularity.
The 18 months is time you could be spending finding someone new rather than waiting for something that probably isn't going to happen.
posted by John Cohen at 8:04 PM on April 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
I've known lots of women who wasted their 30s with guys who were not serious about them. It's really sad. They are amazing, loyal, loving people who would have been wonderful parents, and who are just never going to have that life trajectory now, because they waited to jettison their man-children til it was too late.
Make room in your life for someone who can give you what you want. This guy isn't it, and the time he's wasting is terribly precious.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:06 PM on April 21, 2015 [13 favorites]
Make room in your life for someone who can give you what you want. This guy isn't it, and the time he's wasting is terribly precious.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:06 PM on April 21, 2015 [13 favorites]
I'm sorry, but I think you know the answer to your question already. It really sounds to me like the only reason you would want to stay with him is because you want to have children right away and you don't think that you could find someone else to have those children with in a timeframe that would work with your plans, but (a) you can have a child later than you think you can* and (b) you deserve to be with someone that you are 100% committed to and compatible with and is 100% committed to you and compatible with you. And this guy is not that guy**.
*The whole have kids before you are 35 thing is not as set in stone as people think. Did you know that all the studies that give you that age are based on French data from like the 1890s or something crazy like that? In my circles, most mothers are having their first child in their late 30s/early 40s.
**Also him magically turning 30 is not going to change anything about him. Don't waste another 18 months.
posted by echo0720 at 8:52 PM on April 21, 2015 [8 favorites]
*The whole have kids before you are 35 thing is not as set in stone as people think. Did you know that all the studies that give you that age are based on French data from like the 1890s or something crazy like that? In my circles, most mothers are having their first child in their late 30s/early 40s.
**Also him magically turning 30 is not going to change anything about him. Don't waste another 18 months.
posted by echo0720 at 8:52 PM on April 21, 2015 [8 favorites]
Don't have a baby with someone who has many ??? in his current life and who you do not love.
After a year, if you're still both waiting for the other person to say it, you're not in love.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 8:54 PM on April 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
After a year, if you're still both waiting for the other person to say it, you're not in love.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 8:54 PM on April 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
My first thought is always, if you have to ask a bunch of strangers on the internet, you are already in trouble and know it deep down.
So here is the mirror based on what you wrote: he doesn't love you, and you don't love him. You have lots of desire for kids now and also limited time to act on this desire. He has compatible baby-making equipment but no desire to make them. He seems like a young 29 and even though someday he might be a good dad, that time is not now.
If one of your friends told you this, wouldn't you really want to tell her to give up the nice man-child and find someone who can give her what she wants - babies, actual LOVE, grown-up relationship - and not waste any more time about it?
Yeah. That.
posted by Athanassiel at 8:55 PM on April 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
So here is the mirror based on what you wrote: he doesn't love you, and you don't love him. You have lots of desire for kids now and also limited time to act on this desire. He has compatible baby-making equipment but no desire to make them. He seems like a young 29 and even though someday he might be a good dad, that time is not now.
If one of your friends told you this, wouldn't you really want to tell her to give up the nice man-child and find someone who can give her what she wants - babies, actual LOVE, grown-up relationship - and not waste any more time about it?
Yeah. That.
posted by Athanassiel at 8:55 PM on April 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
"1) an unemployed – but very, very talented – musician who can be fairly useless/lazy"
His talent means nothing if he's not doing anything with it. If you want to be the breadwinner, fine, but most families need two incomes. He's not sure about kids, he likes to go out drinking...
What are you pretending not to know?
posted by Ideefixe at 8:56 PM on April 21, 2015 [7 favorites]
His talent means nothing if he's not doing anything with it. If you want to be the breadwinner, fine, but most families need two incomes. He's not sure about kids, he likes to go out drinking...
What are you pretending not to know?
posted by Ideefixe at 8:56 PM on April 21, 2015 [7 favorites]
I'm so sorry, but at 34, you don't have time to waste. Sure, you have some years left to have kids, but it's going to take time to get over this relationship and then date someone new long enough to get to the having-kids point. Don't waste any more of your childbearing years on this guy. He sounds great for you in many ways except for the compatible life goals thing - which is HUGE. He may one day change his mind and decide he wants kids and feels ready for them, but it's too risky for you to wait around to see if that happens. Break up with him and start going on dates with men who want kids.
Also, I agree with everyone else who said you already know the answer to this question or you wouldn't have asked it.
posted by sunflower16 at 10:03 PM on April 21, 2015
Also, I agree with everyone else who said you already know the answer to this question or you wouldn't have asked it.
posted by sunflower16 at 10:03 PM on April 21, 2015
Also:
It seems that when I'm present and not worried about the future, we flourish. As long as I don't push him for certainty, he relaxes and things are good.
Your relationship is good when he gets what he wants, e.g. a nice relaxed girlfriend who doesn't pressure him about things like commitment and kids and the future. But to make that happen, you have to keep what you want bottled up. You should be in a relationship where both of you get to have what you want. The way to do that is to date someone who wants the same things you do.
posted by sunflower16 at 10:10 PM on April 21, 2015 [19 favorites]
It seems that when I'm present and not worried about the future, we flourish. As long as I don't push him for certainty, he relaxes and things are good.
Your relationship is good when he gets what he wants, e.g. a nice relaxed girlfriend who doesn't pressure him about things like commitment and kids and the future. But to make that happen, you have to keep what you want bottled up. You should be in a relationship where both of you get to have what you want. The way to do that is to date someone who wants the same things you do.
posted by sunflower16 at 10:10 PM on April 21, 2015 [19 favorites]
My general feeling, which you may or may not agree with, is this: You are in a relationship with the person he is now. The things you list as incompatibilities--especially around children--are not things that disappear without serious work. That takes a lot of time, and may or may not ever come to fruition. If you were watching him throw himself at making concrete changes to overcome your incompatibilities, I'd say stay.
He's not, though. The person you are dating now is the person you will be dating in 18 months, most likely. Why waste both your time and his? Walk away now while you can still be friends (in time), rather than let it get sour and resentful. The bottom line is you absolutely want kids. He maybe does maybe doesn't. If you're set on biological children, that clock is tick-tick-ticking, and you have absolutely no idea whether he'll change his mind or not.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:13 PM on April 21, 2015
He's not, though. The person you are dating now is the person you will be dating in 18 months, most likely. Why waste both your time and his? Walk away now while you can still be friends (in time), rather than let it get sour and resentful. The bottom line is you absolutely want kids. He maybe does maybe doesn't. If you're set on biological children, that clock is tick-tick-ticking, and you have absolutely no idea whether he'll change his mind or not.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:13 PM on April 21, 2015
#1 Rule of Relationships: Judge your relationship by the person your partner is now, not who you hope they'll be.
If your guy stays this way for the rest of his life do you want to be with him?
If not, then go. It's not worth twiddling your thumbs hoping he'll become somebody different.
posted by Anonymous at 10:27 PM on April 21, 2015
If your guy stays this way for the rest of his life do you want to be with him?
If not, then go. It's not worth twiddling your thumbs hoping he'll become somebody different.
posted by Anonymous at 10:27 PM on April 21, 2015
He may make a great husband when he's forty. Unfortunately, you can't wait around that long for him to grow up and "stop being afraid" or whatever indefinitely., and some girl who's 22 now may get really lucky. Too bad for you. You pretty much need to say, "I want babies now, I don't have the time to give you, and if you aren't ready to be a dad really soon, we need to break up so I can find a dad for my kids."
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:09 PM on April 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:09 PM on April 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
"He may make a great husband when he's forty. Unfortunately, you can't wait around that long for him to grow up and "stop being afraid" or whatever indefinitely."
OP, lemme help you before you hang your hat on this hoping against hope type statement....
I was a club promoter, went to culinary school, but still basically work in Entertainment. I know many musicians (I even live off Sunset in LA!!) and I am just 45. I answered earlier, upthread.
Without a major self-intervention, your everyday drinker (due to his lifestyle/career) is not going to morph into the type of husband/parent you want.
This guy has directly demonstrated he does not want to change and is unhappy when you bring it up and push your desires to the front.
Why are you hesitating to break up with him? He's made it all about him. That's not parenting potential - act accordingly.
posted by jbenben at 12:17 AM on April 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
OP, lemme help you before you hang your hat on this hoping against hope type statement....
I was a club promoter, went to culinary school, but still basically work in Entertainment. I know many musicians (I even live off Sunset in LA!!) and I am just 45. I answered earlier, upthread.
Without a major self-intervention, your everyday drinker (due to his lifestyle/career) is not going to morph into the type of husband/parent you want.
This guy has directly demonstrated he does not want to change and is unhappy when you bring it up and push your desires to the front.
Why are you hesitating to break up with him? He's made it all about him. That's not parenting potential - act accordingly.
posted by jbenben at 12:17 AM on April 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yes, you are being naive.
I cannot understand why a 34 year old woman, for whom having children is a serious priority, would waste her time getting serious with a man who might as well be wearing a t-shirt that says "I am not suitable for you! Walk away!"
I further cannot understand how a 34 year old woman, who by all intensive purposes is a grown up with a settled life, would choose to procreate with someone who likes to drink and party multiple nights a week.
How is that providing your future child with settled and happy home?
Shouldn't your most important priority be setting up your life so that your future offspring are as happy and well adjusted as possible? (hint: the way to accomplish that is NOT by trying to have a baby with someone who doesn't want one)
And as far as waiting until he is ready? BAD IDEA unless multiple rounds of IVF sound good to you.
Wouldn't you rather meet a great guy, who treats you well, and for whom having a family and being a husband and father is his life dream?
I really hope that you get your priorities straight before you have a baby with this guy or find yourself with fewer child bearing options.
Sorry I am being so harsh, but I have about 5 girlfriends between the ages of 38-45 who wasted their early/mid 30's with men children... 4 are unable to now have children and the other is doing rounds and rounds of IVF. Its heartbreaking.
posted by catspajammies at 1:18 AM on April 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
I cannot understand why a 34 year old woman, for whom having children is a serious priority, would waste her time getting serious with a man who might as well be wearing a t-shirt that says "I am not suitable for you! Walk away!"
I further cannot understand how a 34 year old woman, who by all intensive purposes is a grown up with a settled life, would choose to procreate with someone who likes to drink and party multiple nights a week.
How is that providing your future child with settled and happy home?
Shouldn't your most important priority be setting up your life so that your future offspring are as happy and well adjusted as possible? (hint: the way to accomplish that is NOT by trying to have a baby with someone who doesn't want one)
And as far as waiting until he is ready? BAD IDEA unless multiple rounds of IVF sound good to you.
Wouldn't you rather meet a great guy, who treats you well, and for whom having a family and being a husband and father is his life dream?
I really hope that you get your priorities straight before you have a baby with this guy or find yourself with fewer child bearing options.
Sorry I am being so harsh, but I have about 5 girlfriends between the ages of 38-45 who wasted their early/mid 30's with men children... 4 are unable to now have children and the other is doing rounds and rounds of IVF. Its heartbreaking.
posted by catspajammies at 1:18 AM on April 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
Why are you with this guy? Is it just because of inertia?
Find someone who gives you what you want. He's been clear with you about the fact he won't give you what you want, so you need respect that and find someone else. Simple as that. He's made it clear that kids and commitment are off the table. Accept that, instead of trying to make him be something he isn't, and then spend the energy you're spending on trying to change him, on finding someone who you don't need to change.
There's a lot of unnecessary judgement in this thread - "man child", etc - but ultimately, this guy has the right to decide what he wants out of life, just like you do. He's making different choices to you, but that doesn't mean he's immature, it just means that his life choices are not aligned with yours. Quit wasting your time, put on your adulthood-shoes, face reality as it actually is, and find someone who is aligned with you and wants the same thing you do.
posted by Solomon at 1:21 AM on April 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Find someone who gives you what you want. He's been clear with you about the fact he won't give you what you want, so you need respect that and find someone else. Simple as that. He's made it clear that kids and commitment are off the table. Accept that, instead of trying to make him be something he isn't, and then spend the energy you're spending on trying to change him, on finding someone who you don't need to change.
There's a lot of unnecessary judgement in this thread - "man child", etc - but ultimately, this guy has the right to decide what he wants out of life, just like you do. He's making different choices to you, but that doesn't mean he's immature, it just means that his life choices are not aligned with yours. Quit wasting your time, put on your adulthood-shoes, face reality as it actually is, and find someone who is aligned with you and wants the same thing you do.
posted by Solomon at 1:21 AM on April 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
It sounds to me that you are basically staying with this guy out of fear. You think it will be SO hard to find someone else, someone better -- because, look how long it took to find him!
Trying to get children, commitment, love and happiness out of this relationship will be like trying to get water from a stone. I don't care how pretty and rare the stone is. It's not happenin'.
Given the concerns you outline, this is definitely not a man who can give you what you want.
Here are your new rules for dating:
If you are 100% sure you want kids and that hot guy you just started seeing does not, don't proceed.
If you get involved with someone and you're not sure you love him after a year, leave.
If your boyfriend is not sure he loves you after a year, leave.
If you really think your boyfriend is "fairly useless", leave.
If your lifestyle is so different and incompatible that you can't imagine a future together, leave.
Right now, you are prioritizing "hot sex" and "warm and fuzzies" over the things you actually need not only for a relationship, but for a healthy family: real love, commitment, equal partnership, mutual respect, common values, shared lifestyle.
I don't think it's your boyfriend's issues with commitment that are at stake -- it's yours. If you really cared about forming a serious, healthy committed relationship that can support kids and a family unit, then you would drop this guy like a hot potato. Don't let fear and your own romantic laziness/complacency hold you back from doing the hard (but rewarding) work of getting back out there and finding someone who is actually compatible with you.
posted by Gray Skies at 2:02 AM on April 22, 2015 [18 favorites]
Trying to get children, commitment, love and happiness out of this relationship will be like trying to get water from a stone. I don't care how pretty and rare the stone is. It's not happenin'.
Given the concerns you outline, this is definitely not a man who can give you what you want.
Here are your new rules for dating:
If you are 100% sure you want kids and that hot guy you just started seeing does not, don't proceed.
If you get involved with someone and you're not sure you love him after a year, leave.
If your boyfriend is not sure he loves you after a year, leave.
If you really think your boyfriend is "fairly useless", leave.
If your lifestyle is so different and incompatible that you can't imagine a future together, leave.
Right now, you are prioritizing "hot sex" and "warm and fuzzies" over the things you actually need not only for a relationship, but for a healthy family: real love, commitment, equal partnership, mutual respect, common values, shared lifestyle.
I don't think it's your boyfriend's issues with commitment that are at stake -- it's yours. If you really cared about forming a serious, healthy committed relationship that can support kids and a family unit, then you would drop this guy like a hot potato. Don't let fear and your own romantic laziness/complacency hold you back from doing the hard (but rewarding) work of getting back out there and finding someone who is actually compatible with you.
posted by Gray Skies at 2:02 AM on April 22, 2015 [18 favorites]
It's possible that he could get his shit together. But getting one's shit together is a process that takes years, and involves work. Especially at his age, when his habits are well-rooted. And he has no motivation to change: laziness and drinking are easy and provide instant gratification, and by staying with him and not bringing up your concerns, you're effectively telling him that you're fine with things as they currently are.
Expecting time to take care of it is like dropping something in the ocean and waiting for it to wash up on the shore. Sometimes it happens, but usually things just get lost at sea.
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:39 AM on April 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Expecting time to take care of it is like dropping something in the ocean and waiting for it to wash up on the shore. Sometimes it happens, but usually things just get lost at sea.
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:39 AM on April 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Seconding JBenBen's last remark.
I know a guy who was like this in his late 20s/early 30s--who is now nearly 60. Didn't want kids, but ended up married...eventually...to the woman he had been dating, long term but without explicit commitment, when she got pregnant. (Not the first woman he impregnated, btw, just the first woman who carried the child to term...). He eventually buckled down and "did the right thing" and became a dad and loves his kid and supports her extended family and yadda yadda... While still at the same time being out of the house to go to shows while his wife stayed at home and did more than her share of kid duty alone. Turns out that when the going got tough in their marriage, Mr Charming Extroversion propped up his self esteem by continuing his favorite ego-stroking habit of his youth, which is to say picking up chicks at shows and sleeping with them.
Your guy is his own person, so may not follow this same path. But I think it's more common than you think.
Hold out to have babies with a partner who wants what you want.
posted by Sublimity at 4:02 AM on April 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I know a guy who was like this in his late 20s/early 30s--who is now nearly 60. Didn't want kids, but ended up married...eventually...to the woman he had been dating, long term but without explicit commitment, when she got pregnant. (Not the first woman he impregnated, btw, just the first woman who carried the child to term...). He eventually buckled down and "did the right thing" and became a dad and loves his kid and supports her extended family and yadda yadda... While still at the same time being out of the house to go to shows while his wife stayed at home and did more than her share of kid duty alone. Turns out that when the going got tough in their marriage, Mr Charming Extroversion propped up his self esteem by continuing his favorite ego-stroking habit of his youth, which is to say picking up chicks at shows and sleeping with them.
Your guy is his own person, so may not follow this same path. But I think it's more common than you think.
Hold out to have babies with a partner who wants what you want.
posted by Sublimity at 4:02 AM on April 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think you might want to rethink what you want in a partner. It sounds like you had a hard time finding someone and don't want to let go of this guy because of that. But nothing you said made me think you have found a good partner, more like someone who is cool and interesting.
Someone once said to me that your partner should be a "soft place to land" meaning that the world throws challenges at us, and your partner should help you meet them, not be one of them.
After that, I changed my view and concluded that a good partner must share my *values and life goals* and respect and honour my *interests* and *ambitions* but not necessarily share them.
Once I figured that out, I started dating someone that I've been with for 8 years and we are going to be old people together.
(Also, being extroverted does not have anything to do with being out drinking every night.)
posted by girlpublisher at 4:17 AM on April 22, 2015 [12 favorites]
Someone once said to me that your partner should be a "soft place to land" meaning that the world throws challenges at us, and your partner should help you meet them, not be one of them.
After that, I changed my view and concluded that a good partner must share my *values and life goals* and respect and honour my *interests* and *ambitions* but not necessarily share them.
Once I figured that out, I started dating someone that I've been with for 8 years and we are going to be old people together.
(Also, being extroverted does not have anything to do with being out drinking every night.)
posted by girlpublisher at 4:17 AM on April 22, 2015 [12 favorites]
I have wasted some amount of time around the I-want-babies-but-he-doesn't-but-I-don't-want-to-throw-this-away-but-it's-not-perfect-what-to-do-ARGH issue and I feel I have a fairly solid grip on it now so I will say this:
When wanting children, there are two issues at hand. Wanting children and wanting children with a certain person. If you just want children in general, would you still want them as a single parent? If so then this relationship isn't particularly relevant to that issue. You decide when you want to have children and let your boyfriend know. If he can't deal with that and leaves, then...well, you were going to break up with him if he didn't want to commit and have children anyway.
Then we go onto the issue of wanting children with a certain person. If the relationship isn't so amazing that you would want to stay with him if children were not a possibility, then maybe you don't particularly want children with him. If that's the case, then...well, you were going to break up with him if he didn't want to commit and have children anyway.
So it sounds like really you should move on or just go ahead and have kids on your own. I know it's not that easy and you really want it to work with him, I totally know, but when I look back at these situations I wish I'd gotten out when I knew I should have.
It's totally possible he could change his mind but right now he's not in the same place as you regarding commitment and children. If you don't want to have children until you have a partner who shares those things with you, then you could be waiting a long time for him.
posted by Polychrome at 4:34 AM on April 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
When wanting children, there are two issues at hand. Wanting children and wanting children with a certain person. If you just want children in general, would you still want them as a single parent? If so then this relationship isn't particularly relevant to that issue. You decide when you want to have children and let your boyfriend know. If he can't deal with that and leaves, then...well, you were going to break up with him if he didn't want to commit and have children anyway.
Then we go onto the issue of wanting children with a certain person. If the relationship isn't so amazing that you would want to stay with him if children were not a possibility, then maybe you don't particularly want children with him. If that's the case, then...well, you were going to break up with him if he didn't want to commit and have children anyway.
So it sounds like really you should move on or just go ahead and have kids on your own. I know it's not that easy and you really want it to work with him, I totally know, but when I look back at these situations I wish I'd gotten out when I knew I should have.
It's totally possible he could change his mind but right now he's not in the same place as you regarding commitment and children. If you don't want to have children until you have a partner who shares those things with you, then you could be waiting a long time for him.
posted by Polychrome at 4:34 AM on April 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think a lot of women feel like they don't have the right to work towards things in their lives. Like, if things fall into place, then they were ~~meant to be~~, but if things don't fall into place, well, the chips fall where they fall.
It sounds like you know exactly what you want, but you're not sure that you're allowed to go after it. Bullshit! There are dudes out there who want the same things you do, don't drink to excess, and AND AND have other positive qualities. The longer you spend with this charming but feckless dude, the longer you are waiting to meet the good ones.
This is the first proper relationship I've had for years and years [...] It feels incredibly rare, given how hard it was to find him (all the frogs before this prince, etc!)
I'm a very different person to the confused, closed-up woman I was at 29, partly thanks to some good therapy.
It sounds like you weren't ready to find someone at 29. Why assume that dating will still be that hard now, when you're much more together and you know what you want?
Also, he's the best editor of my writing I've yet come across – patient, supportive and incisive – which is no minor thing.
You can find this in an online writing critique group, or at a writing workshop. This is not a quality to base a life-partner-type decision on.
posted by pie ninja at 5:46 AM on April 22, 2015 [11 favorites]
It sounds like you know exactly what you want, but you're not sure that you're allowed to go after it. Bullshit! There are dudes out there who want the same things you do, don't drink to excess, and AND AND have other positive qualities. The longer you spend with this charming but feckless dude, the longer you are waiting to meet the good ones.
This is the first proper relationship I've had for years and years [...] It feels incredibly rare, given how hard it was to find him (all the frogs before this prince, etc!)
I'm a very different person to the confused, closed-up woman I was at 29, partly thanks to some good therapy.
It sounds like you weren't ready to find someone at 29. Why assume that dating will still be that hard now, when you're much more together and you know what you want?
Also, he's the best editor of my writing I've yet come across – patient, supportive and incisive – which is no minor thing.
You can find this in an online writing critique group, or at a writing workshop. This is not a quality to base a life-partner-type decision on.
posted by pie ninja at 5:46 AM on April 22, 2015 [11 favorites]
You guys don't sound compatible and it sounds like you would be better off as good friends. To me it sounds like what you have is a friendship.
When you love someone, you know. And even if it's not the greatest time in your life to have a relationship, you'll move heaven and earth to have one with someone if you love them enough. But what I've discovered is that until you have that feeling, you don't know what love is really like.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 5:58 AM on April 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
When you love someone, you know. And even if it's not the greatest time in your life to have a relationship, you'll move heaven and earth to have one with someone if you love them enough. But what I've discovered is that until you have that feeling, you don't know what love is really like.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 5:58 AM on April 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
When I decided to put on my big girl pants and accept responsibility for my own happiness, I stopped thinking a cool guy that was indifferent to my needs was a good match for me. It was amazing how quickly I found a great guy and got married once I made space for it! You've got the power to find the perfect mate, this guy ain't it. Don't settle for someone who isn't on board with you 100% in something as important as kids and your other goals!
posted by waving at 6:20 AM on April 22, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by waving at 6:20 AM on April 22, 2015 [11 favorites]
it sound like you wanted a child so badly that you went ahead and picked up a 29 year old version to get you started. this guy isn't husband or dad material for you. this guy is showing you everything you need to know about him. if kids are a priority, and it sounds like they are, actually make them the priority - and that likely means without him. for what it's worth, i know some amazing single mothers who have no support from their sperm donor. you don't have to find the perfect mate to have a child.
posted by nadawi at 7:50 AM on April 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by nadawi at 7:50 AM on April 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Miss Lillies - I just want to tell you that the questions you are asking and the decisions you are considering are indeed rather big, difficult things to face. Remember, it's much easier to give advice to others than to follow it. It sounds like you derive some degree of pleasure from your current situation, and the thought of letting go of that is some combination of sad and scary. That's completely, 100% natural - indeed, it means that you have courageously opened up your heart to someone else. Way to go! Whatever you decide, make it a priority to be as nurturing and gentle with yourself as possible. For many people, none of this is easy.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 9:08 AM on April 22, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by fingers_of_fire at 9:08 AM on April 22, 2015 [10 favorites]
I agree with everyone else here that you should move on, and RIGHT AWAY. I just wanted to let you know that you can do this! At age 31, I finally mustered the guts to leave a going-nowhere relationship, and went out there and PURPOSEFULLY found a man who wanted a family as well. During this time, I didn't allow myself to be distracted by "pretty good." For example, I met one guy who was great! we went to shows, had long talks about interesting things, etc etc. except he didn't want to have kids. I walked, because every minute I spent with him was a detour AWAY from my goal of finding a husband and father. There are lots of them out there, and many with interests in music or whatever. I put myself out there, went on dates, and found one who expressed the desire to start a family from DAY 1. We got married and had babies! I had my first at age 36 and my second at age 39. Don't be afraid to go after what you want! Feel the fear and do it anyway! (that's a great book that might be helpful)
posted by hollyanderbody at 9:23 AM on April 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by hollyanderbody at 9:23 AM on April 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
I dated this guy... twice. The latest guy was a really good guy, but no where near ready to settle down. Oh, he told me what I wanted to hear and told me he loved me, but like your guy, anytime I brought up a future, he would say things like "let's not ruin this day by talking about that." I stayed with this guy for over 2 years because I had tied up so much hope in the relationship. I finally got up the courage to walk away from him, despite loving him. I just realized that he was never going to give me what I wanted- to settle down, eventually start a family and enjoy a stable life together. He just wasn't at that place (at least not with me) and his actions after our breakup have just solidified that- he's living up the bachelor life. I realized that I had completely fallen for his potential and ignored his selfishness and immaturity.
Starting over isn't easy. Most of my friends are married or are in serious relationships. But I just knew that I would much rather be alone than to be with someone who was no where NEAR ready to take that leap with me or wasn't excited for a future with me. I'm worth more than that.
You have to look out for yourself and your needs first and by doing that, you'll find someone who compliments you and is on your level as well. Good luck!
posted by Butterflye1010 at 9:32 AM on April 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Starting over isn't easy. Most of my friends are married or are in serious relationships. But I just knew that I would much rather be alone than to be with someone who was no where NEAR ready to take that leap with me or wasn't excited for a future with me. I'm worth more than that.
You have to look out for yourself and your needs first and by doing that, you'll find someone who compliments you and is on your level as well. Good luck!
posted by Butterflye1010 at 9:32 AM on April 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have a friend who did manage to stay with her musician-boyfriend who was afraid of commitment and he is now her husband and a father to their two kids. I'm not privy to the inner workings of their relationship or what exactly happened, but I do know a few things:
- She put her foot down and said "this is the path i'm on, hop on the train or go elsewhere"
- He went to therapy to address his commitment issues and other fears/whatever
- They moved to another city to be closer to her family for eventual child-rearing
- She has had to do things like put her foot down and say "no, you cannot go on tour with [fairly known rock group] to play backup keyboard for them because I need you home with me and our baby" and he had to be okay with that.
Again, I have no idea if they are really happy, but I do see a happy family on social media.
So let's assume they are as happy as they now seem, and this anecdote is an example of a situation like yours working out. How did it work out? It required a lot of communication on her part expressing what she wanted (so no just "living in the moment"). And he had to do the work to get to where they wanted to be (therapy, etc.). He was never going to get there with just time; it's time + sustained communication and effort on both their parts. If your boyfriend isn't willing to do that, if he just wants to live as he is, unemployed and going out most nights, I don't see a path forward.
Good luck.
posted by misskaz at 9:52 AM on April 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
- She put her foot down and said "this is the path i'm on, hop on the train or go elsewhere"
- He went to therapy to address his commitment issues and other fears/whatever
- They moved to another city to be closer to her family for eventual child-rearing
- She has had to do things like put her foot down and say "no, you cannot go on tour with [fairly known rock group] to play backup keyboard for them because I need you home with me and our baby" and he had to be okay with that.
Again, I have no idea if they are really happy, but I do see a happy family on social media.
So let's assume they are as happy as they now seem, and this anecdote is an example of a situation like yours working out. How did it work out? It required a lot of communication on her part expressing what she wanted (so no just "living in the moment"). And he had to do the work to get to where they wanted to be (therapy, etc.). He was never going to get there with just time; it's time + sustained communication and effort on both their parts. If your boyfriend isn't willing to do that, if he just wants to live as he is, unemployed and going out most nights, I don't see a path forward.
Good luck.
posted by misskaz at 9:52 AM on April 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Two things:
1. Thirty is not magic. He will not magically become some new, more stable & dadly-type person on his 30th birthday. Don't hang your hope on that.
2. You write, "Things have been much, much better since I got a grip on my fear and completely stopped talking about it.." This sentence jumped out at me. Did things really get better, or is it just that you're fighting/disagreeing less since you're not bringing that challenging question up? If you were in a marriage with this man, is this how you'd want to handle anything upsetting/scary, something that was making you unhappy, or that was merely a point of disagreement? All marriages experience these things, pretty frequently -- if the solution to you two not being on the same page about something is for you to "get a handle on [your feelings]" and never bring the issue up again, is that a good way to proceed? (Further - is it a good relationship model for your potential kids?)
I don't know that you need to DTMFA, but you do need to figure out how to work your way through important issues/differences in a way that's equal and lets you be heard & get your needs met. It doesn't sound like that's happening right now.
posted by dryad at 10:41 AM on April 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
1. Thirty is not magic. He will not magically become some new, more stable & dadly-type person on his 30th birthday. Don't hang your hope on that.
2. You write, "Things have been much, much better since I got a grip on my fear and completely stopped talking about it.." This sentence jumped out at me. Did things really get better, or is it just that you're fighting/disagreeing less since you're not bringing that challenging question up? If you were in a marriage with this man, is this how you'd want to handle anything upsetting/scary, something that was making you unhappy, or that was merely a point of disagreement? All marriages experience these things, pretty frequently -- if the solution to you two not being on the same page about something is for you to "get a handle on [your feelings]" and never bring the issue up again, is that a good way to proceed? (Further - is it a good relationship model for your potential kids?)
I don't know that you need to DTMFA, but you do need to figure out how to work your way through important issues/differences in a way that's equal and lets you be heard & get your needs met. It doesn't sound like that's happening right now.
posted by dryad at 10:41 AM on April 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Freeze your eggs now so that no matter what happens, it doesn't affect the babies you already know you want.
posted by corb at 11:38 AM on April 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 11:38 AM on April 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Sounds like you already have a kid.
Good enough is not good enough. You know that this isn't going to work. At 34 that means it isn't working.
posted by French Fry at 1:29 PM on April 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Good enough is not good enough. You know that this isn't going to work. At 34 that means it isn't working.
posted by French Fry at 1:29 PM on April 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oh my gosh, the "unresolved issues around love and commitment" and "not sure about having children" are the main things to stay away from if you want a committed partner who wants kids!
The stuff you like about him seems fairly easy to find in a person; a lot of people love writing and music and cooking?
I dated about a half dozen of these type of guys in my early to mid 30s before I had a huge wake up call. As soon as I met a guy who was like "Yes! I love kids! Want them yesterday!", and eventually was adding "And I really want them with YOU!" I was like "Oh, yeah, I was reallllly with the wrong people before."
And like others have noted, I have a few friends who are married to men who still waffle on having kids, or have already divorced and now they are in their 40s and it's basically too late.
posted by medeine at 1:31 PM on April 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
The stuff you like about him seems fairly easy to find in a person; a lot of people love writing and music and cooking?
I dated about a half dozen of these type of guys in my early to mid 30s before I had a huge wake up call. As soon as I met a guy who was like "Yes! I love kids! Want them yesterday!", and eventually was adding "And I really want them with YOU!" I was like "Oh, yeah, I was reallllly with the wrong people before."
And like others have noted, I have a few friends who are married to men who still waffle on having kids, or have already divorced and now they are in their 40s and it's basically too late.
posted by medeine at 1:31 PM on April 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Start planning on being a single parent in a year, if he is on the boat, he can join in, otherwise, you are continuing on without him.
I am making a very similar calculus right now:
I'm 32 and planning on having kids in 3 years, with my best friend, a gay man. Relationships I may get into will just have to deal with that reality, because it seems unlikely I would build the bonds of trust necessary to know someone would make a good father and team playing-parent, in only a year or two.
Yes, there is a deadline, because I would like my child to have grandparents, and I would like to be a grandparent myself, and I would like to not orphan my child as a young adult, and those things are all significantly more risky if I wait much past 35. Adoption will have those same risks, and I know there is a VERY long adoption waiting list in my country, so that is not an option either (fostering is possible, but easier if I have already settled down to have a child).
I would like to still be able to run around with a teenager or help them move into their first houses. My mother has crippling arthritis at *57*.
A partner can wait, and a good partner will accept me with a kid. Being a parent and potentially a grandparent, can NOT wait.
Start building the network you need to be a parent, of friends, family, and other parents. See if there are any nontraditional routes you want to go down. Don't have a child with someone unless you are sure they would be a good coparent even if you broke up. Better to have a child with someone you never dated, but can trust will be there for all of it, as there are many, many guys who would like to be a father.
posted by Elysum at 2:42 PM on April 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
I am making a very similar calculus right now:
I'm 32 and planning on having kids in 3 years, with my best friend, a gay man. Relationships I may get into will just have to deal with that reality, because it seems unlikely I would build the bonds of trust necessary to know someone would make a good father and team playing-parent, in only a year or two.
Yes, there is a deadline, because I would like my child to have grandparents, and I would like to be a grandparent myself, and I would like to not orphan my child as a young adult, and those things are all significantly more risky if I wait much past 35. Adoption will have those same risks, and I know there is a VERY long adoption waiting list in my country, so that is not an option either (fostering is possible, but easier if I have already settled down to have a child).
I would like to still be able to run around with a teenager or help them move into their first houses. My mother has crippling arthritis at *57*.
A partner can wait, and a good partner will accept me with a kid. Being a parent and potentially a grandparent, can NOT wait.
Start building the network you need to be a parent, of friends, family, and other parents. See if there are any nontraditional routes you want to go down. Don't have a child with someone unless you are sure they would be a good coparent even if you broke up. Better to have a child with someone you never dated, but can trust will be there for all of it, as there are many, many guys who would like to be a father.
posted by Elysum at 2:42 PM on April 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Lots of good advice above on the relationship angle, so I'll talk to you from the fertility perspective;
We finally started trying to get pregnant when I was 37 (though we'd been married for years; I had been waiting for my SO to become his *potential* self, as someone mentioned upthread); even though I'd been discussing my fertility with my OB for years and she assured me that everything would be smooth sailing, as it turns out it wasn't.
It took us 3 more years, a lot of money and a lot of heartbreak in between to have a successful pregnancy. And now it has taken us another 4 years, and a lot more money, and a lot more heartbreak in between to get another successful pregnancy.
God, how I wish I hadn't waited, and that I'd fought for what I wanted from the very beginning.
Don't saddle yourself with someone who's goals are not on the same level as yours. Find someone who wants what you want *now*, don't stay with someone who you *hope* will want what you want in the future.
posted by vignettist at 5:08 PM on April 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
We finally started trying to get pregnant when I was 37 (though we'd been married for years; I had been waiting for my SO to become his *potential* self, as someone mentioned upthread); even though I'd been discussing my fertility with my OB for years and she assured me that everything would be smooth sailing, as it turns out it wasn't.
It took us 3 more years, a lot of money and a lot of heartbreak in between to have a successful pregnancy. And now it has taken us another 4 years, and a lot more money, and a lot more heartbreak in between to get another successful pregnancy.
God, how I wish I hadn't waited, and that I'd fought for what I wanted from the very beginning.
Don't saddle yourself with someone who's goals are not on the same level as yours. Find someone who wants what you want *now*, don't stay with someone who you *hope* will want what you want in the future.
posted by vignettist at 5:08 PM on April 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: THANK YOU, everyone. Wow. I've got to admit, I've been overwhelmed by all the responses, and I wasn't expecting almost everyone to shout 'leave him!' It's thrown me quite a lot.
I also feel that I've done my boyfriend a disservice in how I've portrayed him. So many people picked up on the drinking, and that wasn't my intention. I live in England, and here everybody goes out drinking most nights. We go to the pub for a few pints. At least, he and most of the rest of the country do. I prefer to go home and read a book. The problem wasn't drinking at all (a few pints a night, which here is completely normal) but that he likes going to the pub with his mates for a couple of pints, I like staying home. That's why I contrasted our ideal nights. Going to the pub here isn't an issue, it's a tradition – unless you're me. I'm sorry that my lack of clarity about 'a night out drinking' got in the way there. It means a far more acceptable and normal thing here in England.
Anyway, that aside, I can hardly not take on board what's been said. My timeline has enormously sped up, and I'm now psychologically preparing to have to walk away from this completely lovely and amazing person, if necessary.
Thanks again, all, for your kind responses, and for taking the time to share them with me. It's very much appreciated.
posted by considerthelilies at 2:29 PM on April 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
I also feel that I've done my boyfriend a disservice in how I've portrayed him. So many people picked up on the drinking, and that wasn't my intention. I live in England, and here everybody goes out drinking most nights. We go to the pub for a few pints. At least, he and most of the rest of the country do. I prefer to go home and read a book. The problem wasn't drinking at all (a few pints a night, which here is completely normal) but that he likes going to the pub with his mates for a couple of pints, I like staying home. That's why I contrasted our ideal nights. Going to the pub here isn't an issue, it's a tradition – unless you're me. I'm sorry that my lack of clarity about 'a night out drinking' got in the way there. It means a far more acceptable and normal thing here in England.
Anyway, that aside, I can hardly not take on board what's been said. My timeline has enormously sped up, and I'm now psychologically preparing to have to walk away from this completely lovely and amazing person, if necessary.
Thanks again, all, for your kind responses, and for taking the time to share them with me. It's very much appreciated.
posted by considerthelilies at 2:29 PM on April 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
So many people picked up on the drinking, and that wasn't my intention. I live in England, and here everybody goes out drinking most nights. We go to the pub for a few pints. At least, he and most of the rest of the country do. I prefer to go home and read a book. The problem wasn't drinking at all (a few pints a night, which here is completely normal) but that he likes going to the pub with his mates for a couple of pints, I like staying home. That's why I contrasted our ideal nights. Going to the pub here isn't an issue, it's a tradition – unless you're me. I'm sorry that my lack of clarity about 'a night out drinking' got in the way there. It means a far more acceptable and normal thing here in England.
Just so you know, if your post had included that information, it wouldn't have affected my answer, and I don't think it would've affected most people's answers. I never thought the problem was that he's exceeded some objective threshold of how much someone should drink with their friends. The problem is that the way he likes spending his time doesn't involve you, and that this bothers you. If it didn't bother you, you wouldn't have put it in a list of things about him that bother you and posted it to the internet.
posted by John Cohen at 5:46 AM on April 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
Just so you know, if your post had included that information, it wouldn't have affected my answer, and I don't think it would've affected most people's answers. I never thought the problem was that he's exceeded some objective threshold of how much someone should drink with their friends. The problem is that the way he likes spending his time doesn't involve you, and that this bothers you. If it didn't bother you, you wouldn't have put it in a list of things about him that bother you and posted it to the internet.
posted by John Cohen at 5:46 AM on April 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
If not, go. Choose him or not him, but don't stay for potential him.
posted by heatherann at 6:25 PM on April 21, 2015 [20 favorites]