V complicated, but hopefully interesting question
September 27, 2015 12:36 PM Subscribe
I'm in love with a guy with cancer. I'm 31 and starting to feel like I want my life to move on soon. Cancer means it can't with him, and he doesn't want to plan a future right now. What to do?
I fell in love with a wonderful guy last year and after 7 months of being together he was diagnosed with bowel cancer with a 50% survival rate.
I've had a number of LTRs and this guy beats them all. Id never felt the urge to have a child before, or to marry, but I do with him and I could see it being that way from early on. I was anxious when we started dating about the fact that he was starting a two-year masters to try and work out what direction he wanted his career to go in (he'd had a previously v successful career in a creative industry which wasn't that well paid and had a terrible worklife balance). i knew I wanted children at some point but at that stage in the relationship I didn't want to make him feel under pressure and it was enough to hear that he wanted them at some point, which I did ask a couple of months in.
To say the past five months have been draining is an understatement. I've provided so much support to him, and given up many things to show him love and care. I was practically living with him when he went through his first three months of chemo, and my ability to do my job well definitely took a backseat.
Then, he had some great results come back (75% reduction in his tumour-yay!) and we were able to go on our first holiday a month ago, for two weeks. It was kinda stressful. The pressure got to us and neither of us did a great job of chilling out, which was what we both needed. I think neither of us wanted to disappoint the other (seems v silly now!) but it led to bickering, and he was extremely nit picky and slightly controlling which I found difficult. I've put a fair amount of stressed behaviour from him over the last few months down to reactions to treatment / what he's going through, but I think by that point I'd reached the end of my tether and I began to take it personally and get overly emotional.
During he holiday we had a few nice 'imagine if we lived in that house'... 'I want to bring my kids up in x way' conversations. It was nice, and implied we had a future together, which we'd kind of broached before in a sideways way (he is quite....sideways about stuff).
When we got home, a week or so later, I asked just as he was going to sleep 'do you think we'll live together one day?'. I'd been fed up with my housemates, tired of living in a shared house and also perhaps a little insecure since the holiday (since the holiday I have, I think, been pushing him away a little and reclaiming my life but also feeling insecure about that).
He replied that I 'always bought that kind of stuff up at the wrong moment' (I do), cuddled me and then went to sleep.
His reply snowballed in my head to mean that he doesn't see a future for us, and doesn't love me that much, and that my asking and neediness will drive him away (I have a big fear of being needy). It's worth saying I suffer from anxiety generally and over the past month it's been through the roof!
It got to the point where I had to talk to him about this fear, but it came out in the wrong way and made it sound like I was being very contractual - aka ' I need to know this terrible time will be worth it in the end' kind of vibe. I think all I really wanted to hear was that he NOW loves me enough to imagine a potential future together, not that I want him to promise that he will feel a specific thing when he gets better and that we will live happily ever after. I know we can't predict the future. He said that he was aware of my 'biological clock' and didn't want to 'hold me back' (I'm 31, he's 29) and that he can't even think about kids right now, or even imagine e future, and that when he gets better (likely given his response), he will have a lot to face up to (whether he restarts a masters again because his current masters is in its final year running and he's missing out on it, what job he does etc). He said he felt an unconscious pressure that wasn't coming from me but was coming from the situation to almost 'reward' me afterwards and that that made things seem confusing.
We had a big chat about it yesterday and he took today to 'think'. In my mind, he's going to decide this is not worth the trouble and just dump me. Even though I know he loves me! I think because he's so amazing and younger I've always felt like I'm batting above my league which is coming to the fore here, plus I'll admit I quesyioned the relationship on holiday and I know from previous relationships that that tends to be the moment when I get insecure about the others feelings!
He's a little younger than me -29, and I'm 31. If I'm honest, I am worried that I live in a shared house with little savings and can't see a way forward for me right now. If I saved lots I might be able to get a shared ownership place in maybe two years time, when I'd be 33. So I don't need a man to get me out of that situation, but I do want to live with someone I love, soon, and also I do want children, and in my mind I want them before I'm 35. He has literally no money and would presumably be starting a career from scratch next year when his treatment is over. And who knows what his illness might bring - recurrence, death. He might decide he wants to not have kids because of the risk.
I feel so anxious and like time is running out. I read all these things about women over 35 being less fertile, and less desirable. I don't to lose my chance to have a kid which I really deeply feel I would be a natural at. I want it with him, but he seems so scared at the prospect of even a hint of that that it's difficult not to take it personally. Even when he did say yesterday that he can think of nothing better than having kids at some point and that right now, he believes he would like us to have a future together. I'm worried that even if we did break up, it takes years to find the right person to have kids with, and what of the circumstances weren't right again?
I don't really know what I'm asking, but it could be - am I right to be panicking about the fertility thing? If he decides he doesn't want kids when Im 35 I'll be in a horrible rush, and I feel like the cancer will make him unsure for a while. Also, what do I do now with this horrible insecurity and anxiety which seems to have come about as we are less in each others pockets because he is doing better on his new treatment, and also perhaps as a result of me questioning our compatibility a bit on holiday.
I hate the idea that I'm looking after him as an investment. I love him and want to be here. But I'm not going to lie about the fact that if he did for some reason decide to end our relationship after he got better, so he could move on and forget about the cancer / me who nursed him through it, I would be heartbroken. And also, I don't want this pressure that he / I feel to get the better of us and make us question and stop enjoying what was up until now a pretty lovely relationship, all things considering!
And, reading this back, I'm aware this could come across as awfully selfish. The poor guy might die. Of course he doesn't want to think about the future. I promise you this is the first even mildly angsty time we've had where I'm actually thinking about myself. It's been brewing in my mind for ages. I've written things in cold, selfish terms because I want to know what your view is of the best choice for me, not him. I'm worried I'm over estimating the level of 'risk' for myself so looking for some reassurance so I can go back to 100% looking after him.
Nb: it's our one year anniversary tomorrow. I don't think its a coincidence as I tend to get anxious around these kind of milestones!
I fell in love with a wonderful guy last year and after 7 months of being together he was diagnosed with bowel cancer with a 50% survival rate.
I've had a number of LTRs and this guy beats them all. Id never felt the urge to have a child before, or to marry, but I do with him and I could see it being that way from early on. I was anxious when we started dating about the fact that he was starting a two-year masters to try and work out what direction he wanted his career to go in (he'd had a previously v successful career in a creative industry which wasn't that well paid and had a terrible worklife balance). i knew I wanted children at some point but at that stage in the relationship I didn't want to make him feel under pressure and it was enough to hear that he wanted them at some point, which I did ask a couple of months in.
To say the past five months have been draining is an understatement. I've provided so much support to him, and given up many things to show him love and care. I was practically living with him when he went through his first three months of chemo, and my ability to do my job well definitely took a backseat.
Then, he had some great results come back (75% reduction in his tumour-yay!) and we were able to go on our first holiday a month ago, for two weeks. It was kinda stressful. The pressure got to us and neither of us did a great job of chilling out, which was what we both needed. I think neither of us wanted to disappoint the other (seems v silly now!) but it led to bickering, and he was extremely nit picky and slightly controlling which I found difficult. I've put a fair amount of stressed behaviour from him over the last few months down to reactions to treatment / what he's going through, but I think by that point I'd reached the end of my tether and I began to take it personally and get overly emotional.
During he holiday we had a few nice 'imagine if we lived in that house'... 'I want to bring my kids up in x way' conversations. It was nice, and implied we had a future together, which we'd kind of broached before in a sideways way (he is quite....sideways about stuff).
When we got home, a week or so later, I asked just as he was going to sleep 'do you think we'll live together one day?'. I'd been fed up with my housemates, tired of living in a shared house and also perhaps a little insecure since the holiday (since the holiday I have, I think, been pushing him away a little and reclaiming my life but also feeling insecure about that).
He replied that I 'always bought that kind of stuff up at the wrong moment' (I do), cuddled me and then went to sleep.
His reply snowballed in my head to mean that he doesn't see a future for us, and doesn't love me that much, and that my asking and neediness will drive him away (I have a big fear of being needy). It's worth saying I suffer from anxiety generally and over the past month it's been through the roof!
It got to the point where I had to talk to him about this fear, but it came out in the wrong way and made it sound like I was being very contractual - aka ' I need to know this terrible time will be worth it in the end' kind of vibe. I think all I really wanted to hear was that he NOW loves me enough to imagine a potential future together, not that I want him to promise that he will feel a specific thing when he gets better and that we will live happily ever after. I know we can't predict the future. He said that he was aware of my 'biological clock' and didn't want to 'hold me back' (I'm 31, he's 29) and that he can't even think about kids right now, or even imagine e future, and that when he gets better (likely given his response), he will have a lot to face up to (whether he restarts a masters again because his current masters is in its final year running and he's missing out on it, what job he does etc). He said he felt an unconscious pressure that wasn't coming from me but was coming from the situation to almost 'reward' me afterwards and that that made things seem confusing.
We had a big chat about it yesterday and he took today to 'think'. In my mind, he's going to decide this is not worth the trouble and just dump me. Even though I know he loves me! I think because he's so amazing and younger I've always felt like I'm batting above my league which is coming to the fore here, plus I'll admit I quesyioned the relationship on holiday and I know from previous relationships that that tends to be the moment when I get insecure about the others feelings!
He's a little younger than me -29, and I'm 31. If I'm honest, I am worried that I live in a shared house with little savings and can't see a way forward for me right now. If I saved lots I might be able to get a shared ownership place in maybe two years time, when I'd be 33. So I don't need a man to get me out of that situation, but I do want to live with someone I love, soon, and also I do want children, and in my mind I want them before I'm 35. He has literally no money and would presumably be starting a career from scratch next year when his treatment is over. And who knows what his illness might bring - recurrence, death. He might decide he wants to not have kids because of the risk.
I feel so anxious and like time is running out. I read all these things about women over 35 being less fertile, and less desirable. I don't to lose my chance to have a kid which I really deeply feel I would be a natural at. I want it with him, but he seems so scared at the prospect of even a hint of that that it's difficult not to take it personally. Even when he did say yesterday that he can think of nothing better than having kids at some point and that right now, he believes he would like us to have a future together. I'm worried that even if we did break up, it takes years to find the right person to have kids with, and what of the circumstances weren't right again?
I don't really know what I'm asking, but it could be - am I right to be panicking about the fertility thing? If he decides he doesn't want kids when Im 35 I'll be in a horrible rush, and I feel like the cancer will make him unsure for a while. Also, what do I do now with this horrible insecurity and anxiety which seems to have come about as we are less in each others pockets because he is doing better on his new treatment, and also perhaps as a result of me questioning our compatibility a bit on holiday.
I hate the idea that I'm looking after him as an investment. I love him and want to be here. But I'm not going to lie about the fact that if he did for some reason decide to end our relationship after he got better, so he could move on and forget about the cancer / me who nursed him through it, I would be heartbroken. And also, I don't want this pressure that he / I feel to get the better of us and make us question and stop enjoying what was up until now a pretty lovely relationship, all things considering!
And, reading this back, I'm aware this could come across as awfully selfish. The poor guy might die. Of course he doesn't want to think about the future. I promise you this is the first even mildly angsty time we've had where I'm actually thinking about myself. It's been brewing in my mind for ages. I've written things in cold, selfish terms because I want to know what your view is of the best choice for me, not him. I'm worried I'm over estimating the level of 'risk' for myself so looking for some reassurance so I can go back to 100% looking after him.
Nb: it's our one year anniversary tomorrow. I don't think its a coincidence as I tend to get anxious around these kind of milestones!
Response by poster: Thanks. It's worth saying that he did say yesterday that he loves me and does see a future, and would like to move in one day, but that he doesn't want to do it while this is going on (also, logistically we couldn't because of money etc) - he said that he just couldn't guarantee how he would feel about anything at the end of his treatment, when he has to pull his life together.
posted by starstarstar at 1:02 PM on September 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by starstarstar at 1:02 PM on September 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Okay, take a deep breath :) Firstly, I can empathize with your situation. I am engaged to a man with a serious health condition, and I know that can have an impact in the relationship dynamic. That is a whole other question, and you can memail me if you would like to chat more about that.
As to your fertility question, relax! I recently saw a doctor for this, and what she told me was that your calendar age is a lot less important than your health status. There is a test they did on me which is precisely to determine whether you are running out of time or not. She was much more interested in the number on this test than she was in my calendar age.
The other thing is that statistics only tell a limited story. In the past, more women over 40 were not having kids not because they were unable to, but because they didn't want to. They got married earlier, had their kids earlier, and were done. Since most of them were not trying to have a kid at 40, the stats obviously reported fewer women over 40 delivering babies. Now that we live in the age of medical testing, there is more accurate information. For reference, they told me that most women my age score about 69 on the test they did on me. I scored a 92. In short, I am just fine, time is not running out, and the odds are I will be able to have a child even in spite of my age (I am 38).
In my case, the fertility issue is on his side (there is that consequence of being with someone who has a serious health condition!) The good news is that they told me if we did want to go ahead with IVF, the health of the woman is much more important than the health of the man in determining the success of it. So relax :)
posted by JoannaC at 1:05 PM on September 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
As to your fertility question, relax! I recently saw a doctor for this, and what she told me was that your calendar age is a lot less important than your health status. There is a test they did on me which is precisely to determine whether you are running out of time or not. She was much more interested in the number on this test than she was in my calendar age.
The other thing is that statistics only tell a limited story. In the past, more women over 40 were not having kids not because they were unable to, but because they didn't want to. They got married earlier, had their kids earlier, and were done. Since most of them were not trying to have a kid at 40, the stats obviously reported fewer women over 40 delivering babies. Now that we live in the age of medical testing, there is more accurate information. For reference, they told me that most women my age score about 69 on the test they did on me. I scored a 92. In short, I am just fine, time is not running out, and the odds are I will be able to have a child even in spite of my age (I am 38).
In my case, the fertility issue is on his side (there is that consequence of being with someone who has a serious health condition!) The good news is that they told me if we did want to go ahead with IVF, the health of the woman is much more important than the health of the man in determining the success of it. So relax :)
posted by JoannaC at 1:05 PM on September 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Never trust "one day." He'll ping pong the idea back and forth and it won't amount to anything. He doesn't want to marry you, he thinks it's fine that you take care of him, and when he says "one day" he's just trying to say something you'll want to hear to calm you down.
Having a serious illness doesn't make someone a saint. Even people with cancer can be manipulative douchebags.
posted by discopolo at 1:06 PM on September 27, 2015 [25 favorites]
Having a serious illness doesn't make someone a saint. Even people with cancer can be manipulative douchebags.
posted by discopolo at 1:06 PM on September 27, 2015 [25 favorites]
What he's going through is awful, but you know he's holding you back. This isn't even a morally fraught situation where you're dating and his cancer is inconvenient to you and you don't want to sacrifice anything so you abandon him. You're putting in the energy, effort and time to take care of him because you love him and can see yourself growing old with him.
He, on the other hand, is hedging and being "sideways." I think you know this is not about the cancer, and it is totally about a fear of (or just dislike of) commitment. Men telling women their behavior is "contractual" is a common response when they decide they want to take from their partner but not give as much back. It's a way of saying "how dare you expect me to care for you in the way you care for me? How dare you expect a demonstration of emotional commitment so you know you're putting your energies in the right place?" Or in other words, "I love all the deep, precious energy you're expending on me, and I don't want to return the favor, but I also don't want things to change."
Women have finite energies. We can't take care of every man who wanders into our path. Generally, it's best if we choose to take care of the ones who acknowledge our needs (emotional and physical) and care for us back.
posted by easter queen at 2:15 PM on September 27, 2015 [18 favorites]
He, on the other hand, is hedging and being "sideways." I think you know this is not about the cancer, and it is totally about a fear of (or just dislike of) commitment. Men telling women their behavior is "contractual" is a common response when they decide they want to take from their partner but not give as much back. It's a way of saying "how dare you expect me to care for you in the way you care for me? How dare you expect a demonstration of emotional commitment so you know you're putting your energies in the right place?" Or in other words, "I love all the deep, precious energy you're expending on me, and I don't want to return the favor, but I also don't want things to change."
Women have finite energies. We can't take care of every man who wanders into our path. Generally, it's best if we choose to take care of the ones who acknowledge our needs (emotional and physical) and care for us back.
posted by easter queen at 2:15 PM on September 27, 2015 [18 favorites]
I should also say that I just watched a family member go through a very bad cancer and chemo remission process, and it WAS NOT easy, and he was definitely mentally/emotionally mixed up for awhile afterward. I understand how your boyfriend might not be in the headspace to make commitments right now. But in my opinion it's also not proportionate for you to be caring for him or involved very seriously with him right now, if your relationship wasn't established prior to the chemo.
posted by easter queen at 2:22 PM on September 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by easter queen at 2:22 PM on September 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
When we got home, a week or so later, I asked just as he was going to sleep 'do you think we'll live together one day?'. [...] He replied that I 'always bought that kind of stuff up at the wrong moment' (I do), cuddled me and then went to sleep. His reply snowballed in my head to mean that he doesn't see a future for us
Just before someone goes to sleep is absolutely the wrong moment to bring up huge life issues like that.
I'd been fed up with my housemates, tired of living in a shared house and also perhaps a little insecure since the holiday
And it *was* bringing up a huge life issue, not idly speculating about something that could happen in the world.
Timing is very important when you're discussing very important topics. You can't open up that kind of discussion when someone is just on the way out the door, or whatever.
Whatever his virtues are or not, whether he's "manipulative" or a "douchebag" or not, this is one thing he's said that I think you should take at face value.
I would also say that timing is important for huge life crises. It's not like you're married to this guy and you're committed to being with him till death do you part. You'd been together just long enough - seven months - that the issue of long-term commitment is too early to confront, and also just long enough that if you said "cancer sounds like a big drag, I'm outta here" you would feel like a heel. And, being in a grievous situation, of course he accepted your help because he needed it. There is no point in faulting anyone for this situation, it simply is.
I'm worried that even if we did break up, it takes years to find the right person to have kids with, and what of the circumstances weren't right again?
So this is your bottom line: you can break up and gamble on being able to find a viable father within the time you have left, or you can bet on the potential of this guy, whose health and even survival prospects are not good, and who may not want a long-term relationship with you anyway. His prospects for providing for a family through career and earning potential are also not good.
I will be blunt: you are looking at this guy as an investment if you want to put it like that. But since the purpose of your relational life right now is to have children, there is no point in remaining involved with someone who may not even want that at all, may not want it with you, and may not be able to uphold the requisite commitments even if he wants to. If you were madly in love with him and only him, and he were the one for you, you wouldn't be asking this question in this form.
I'm really uncomfortable with any answer that puts blame on the guy for being inadequate or unworthy of you. Just as I am uncomfortable with your accusing yourself of being "selfish" for reckoning the reality of what you want in life. This situation is not his fault and it's not your fault. But I do think the signs point to this not being the relationship for you.
posted by tel3path at 2:23 PM on September 27, 2015 [10 favorites]
Just before someone goes to sleep is absolutely the wrong moment to bring up huge life issues like that.
I'd been fed up with my housemates, tired of living in a shared house and also perhaps a little insecure since the holiday
And it *was* bringing up a huge life issue, not idly speculating about something that could happen in the world.
Timing is very important when you're discussing very important topics. You can't open up that kind of discussion when someone is just on the way out the door, or whatever.
Whatever his virtues are or not, whether he's "manipulative" or a "douchebag" or not, this is one thing he's said that I think you should take at face value.
I would also say that timing is important for huge life crises. It's not like you're married to this guy and you're committed to being with him till death do you part. You'd been together just long enough - seven months - that the issue of long-term commitment is too early to confront, and also just long enough that if you said "cancer sounds like a big drag, I'm outta here" you would feel like a heel. And, being in a grievous situation, of course he accepted your help because he needed it. There is no point in faulting anyone for this situation, it simply is.
I'm worried that even if we did break up, it takes years to find the right person to have kids with, and what of the circumstances weren't right again?
So this is your bottom line: you can break up and gamble on being able to find a viable father within the time you have left, or you can bet on the potential of this guy, whose health and even survival prospects are not good, and who may not want a long-term relationship with you anyway. His prospects for providing for a family through career and earning potential are also not good.
I will be blunt: you are looking at this guy as an investment if you want to put it like that. But since the purpose of your relational life right now is to have children, there is no point in remaining involved with someone who may not even want that at all, may not want it with you, and may not be able to uphold the requisite commitments even if he wants to. If you were madly in love with him and only him, and he were the one for you, you wouldn't be asking this question in this form.
I'm really uncomfortable with any answer that puts blame on the guy for being inadequate or unworthy of you. Just as I am uncomfortable with your accusing yourself of being "selfish" for reckoning the reality of what you want in life. This situation is not his fault and it's not your fault. But I do think the signs point to this not being the relationship for you.
posted by tel3path at 2:23 PM on September 27, 2015 [10 favorites]
Wait a minute, I misread your timeline. I thought he had been diagnosed with cancer 7 months in, but actually you are 7 months into your relationship and he was diagnosed 2 months in.
It is really disproportionate for you to have put so much into caring for him, in that case - "practically living" with him and backburnering your job. That's 5 months out of 7 that you have spent on caring for him.
There is such a big imbalance here and your frustration is understandable, since you're putting as much energy into it as you would put into a long-standing committed relationship, yet you're not in that relationship nor do you have any guarantee that you ever will be.
I don't know if you should break up with him - though my intuition says yes - but I suggest taking a step back and making sure you're taking care of yourself. You don't have to drop him from a great height, you can still help him out as a friend.
posted by tel3path at 2:34 PM on September 27, 2015 [18 favorites]
It is really disproportionate for you to have put so much into caring for him, in that case - "practically living" with him and backburnering your job. That's 5 months out of 7 that you have spent on caring for him.
There is such a big imbalance here and your frustration is understandable, since you're putting as much energy into it as you would put into a long-standing committed relationship, yet you're not in that relationship nor do you have any guarantee that you ever will be.
I don't know if you should break up with him - though my intuition says yes - but I suggest taking a step back and making sure you're taking care of yourself. You don't have to drop him from a great height, you can still help him out as a friend.
posted by tel3path at 2:34 PM on September 27, 2015 [18 favorites]
The biggest obstacle I see is that you two haven't learned the most constructive ways of communicating. Almost everybody needs help with that once things start getting serious. If the two of you would learn and practice "active listening," also known as "listening skills," you'd be able to call a halt to nit-picking and bickering. Each would be able to express feelings without anybody feeling cornered or controlled. It would be okay to ask for direct discussion instead of dealing with things in a "sideways" manner. You would learn how to ask for what you need without so much self-criticism. (I do always ask important things at the wrong time. I do get overly emotional.)
It's reasonable if he doesn't know what he wants. It's reasonable if you're no longer willing to wait. There's a hell of a lot of uncertainty here even apart from his illness. Even just a few sessions with a therapist could really help with the communication issues.
posted by wryly at 2:45 PM on September 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
It's reasonable if he doesn't know what he wants. It's reasonable if you're no longer willing to wait. There's a hell of a lot of uncertainty here even apart from his illness. Even just a few sessions with a therapist could really help with the communication issues.
posted by wryly at 2:45 PM on September 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
Wanted to weigh in here because I have a very close friend who's living with her wonderful boyfriend who's in remission from cancer. Let me just say that this guy is the PERFECT guy for her and absolutely the nicest guy she's dated. She's now 36 and is feeling the now-or-never pressure to have kids. He is not interested in being a father. He loves kids (you should see how he goes all out for the neighborhood kids for Halloween). But since surviving cancer he doesn't want to have children of his own because he doesn't want to die before they're grown (his prognosis is excellent but this is how he feels). It's really frustrating and sad for her that they aren't moving forward with marriage or kids but she's decided that being with him is more important to her so she's staying.
A few things to consider:
1. Cancer treatment can end a man's ability to produce sperm. Did he bank any away before starting treatment? What do his doctors say about his fertility? Are you cool with adopting or opting for a sperm donor if he can't father kids naturally?
2. As has been mentioned above, what you can expect from your fertility individually may be different from the 35-or-bust mantra. If you've never gotten pregnant before, you don't know how hard or easy it will be.
3. Making commitments for the future (living together, buying a house together, marriage, kids, etc) are encouraging to some people dealing with cancer. To others, life commitments cause a huge amount of anxiety and prevent them from focusing on things one day at a time.
4. Just my personal opinion, but 29 and 31 doesn't seem like an age difference to me. Those are the exact ages my parents were when they married (groom 29, bride 31).
5. He is not the "investment." Your life is.
posted by Pearl928 at 3:40 PM on September 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
A few things to consider:
1. Cancer treatment can end a man's ability to produce sperm. Did he bank any away before starting treatment? What do his doctors say about his fertility? Are you cool with adopting or opting for a sperm donor if he can't father kids naturally?
2. As has been mentioned above, what you can expect from your fertility individually may be different from the 35-or-bust mantra. If you've never gotten pregnant before, you don't know how hard or easy it will be.
3. Making commitments for the future (living together, buying a house together, marriage, kids, etc) are encouraging to some people dealing with cancer. To others, life commitments cause a huge amount of anxiety and prevent them from focusing on things one day at a time.
4. Just my personal opinion, but 29 and 31 doesn't seem like an age difference to me. Those are the exact ages my parents were when they married (groom 29, bride 31).
5. He is not the "investment." Your life is.
posted by Pearl928 at 3:40 PM on September 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Hey, yeah he did bank sperm.
Just to be clear, I probably wrote my question in a way which put the most negative spin on the situation because of how anxious I am right now. I've been very anxious about a number of things, which happens sometimes, and I push situations into negative places.
I think some people have overlooked / misinterpreted some things. One: we were together seven months when he was diagnosed. Two: he says that he loves me and sees a future for us but that he feels uncomfortable making any promises because he doesn't know what the road looks like ahead. Since getting diagnosed he has become very, very good at 'living in the moment' and not worrying about pretty much anything, when he was a worrywart before, and he also finds any planning for the future in any context just too much for his brain to handle. I do get the sense that he's just trying to be completely honest with me and not give me empty words. Which I kind of appreciate, because no one can ever predict the future - particularly in this situation - and he knows what I'm going through and feels bad for it.
Oh, and he's also said he couldn't think of anything better than having kids, but that it's not something he can think about right now.
posted by starstarstar at 3:47 PM on September 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Just to be clear, I probably wrote my question in a way which put the most negative spin on the situation because of how anxious I am right now. I've been very anxious about a number of things, which happens sometimes, and I push situations into negative places.
I think some people have overlooked / misinterpreted some things. One: we were together seven months when he was diagnosed. Two: he says that he loves me and sees a future for us but that he feels uncomfortable making any promises because he doesn't know what the road looks like ahead. Since getting diagnosed he has become very, very good at 'living in the moment' and not worrying about pretty much anything, when he was a worrywart before, and he also finds any planning for the future in any context just too much for his brain to handle. I do get the sense that he's just trying to be completely honest with me and not give me empty words. Which I kind of appreciate, because no one can ever predict the future - particularly in this situation - and he knows what I'm going through and feels bad for it.
Oh, and he's also said he couldn't think of anything better than having kids, but that it's not something he can think about right now.
posted by starstarstar at 3:47 PM on September 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Sounds like you have spent a year with him and are rightfully looking at where things may go, and he has cancer and is rightfully dubious about the future.
Think about how you might feel with a few possible outcomes to help you clarify how much more time you feel comfortable waiting:
1. A year from now you are both madly in love but his cancer is worse and he's not going to make it. Do you want to get married or have kids with him knowing he isn't going to be around soon? How do you feel about that year?
2. A year from now his health is still iffy and he still feels iffy about the future and isn't ready for kids. Do you cut bait to find someone who is sure? How do you feel about that year?
3. A year from now his health his improving but he still isn't sure about kids or moving in. Are you going to wait more? Are you going to leave? Was the past year a waste?
It sounds like it's just not clear who things are going to turn out, and you both have your heads on straight. I think the best thing to do in a situation like this is recognize your own anxieties and take care of yourself.
You are already worried about you chance to have kids. So set a deadline for relationship reevaluation. How many more months or weeks or years do you feel ok about going along with before you make a decision?
It's ok if the answer is 0.
It does not make you a bad person to break up when there isn't anything super terrible going on, and it doesn't make you a bad person to break up with some one who has cancer. You are dating so "in sickness and in health" doesn't apply.
If you do need to start over and find someone new either because his prognosis is bad or because he just ain't ready to commit even if he is better, when feels too late to you? Go with that. It's a personal thing that we can't help you with. Some people might say they feel fine at 33, others at 36, others might feel like omg you have already missed the boat. If you were 20, I would probably say hey chill out there is time, but your concerns are reasonable and only you can decide how comfortable you are with the prospect of starting over x long from now.
Good luck, sounds hard.
posted by rmless at 4:25 PM on September 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Think about how you might feel with a few possible outcomes to help you clarify how much more time you feel comfortable waiting:
1. A year from now you are both madly in love but his cancer is worse and he's not going to make it. Do you want to get married or have kids with him knowing he isn't going to be around soon? How do you feel about that year?
2. A year from now his health is still iffy and he still feels iffy about the future and isn't ready for kids. Do you cut bait to find someone who is sure? How do you feel about that year?
3. A year from now his health his improving but he still isn't sure about kids or moving in. Are you going to wait more? Are you going to leave? Was the past year a waste?
It sounds like it's just not clear who things are going to turn out, and you both have your heads on straight. I think the best thing to do in a situation like this is recognize your own anxieties and take care of yourself.
You are already worried about you chance to have kids. So set a deadline for relationship reevaluation. How many more months or weeks or years do you feel ok about going along with before you make a decision?
It's ok if the answer is 0.
It does not make you a bad person to break up when there isn't anything super terrible going on, and it doesn't make you a bad person to break up with some one who has cancer. You are dating so "in sickness and in health" doesn't apply.
If you do need to start over and find someone new either because his prognosis is bad or because he just ain't ready to commit even if he is better, when feels too late to you? Go with that. It's a personal thing that we can't help you with. Some people might say they feel fine at 33, others at 36, others might feel like omg you have already missed the boat. If you were 20, I would probably say hey chill out there is time, but your concerns are reasonable and only you can decide how comfortable you are with the prospect of starting over x long from now.
Good luck, sounds hard.
posted by rmless at 4:25 PM on September 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
I skimmed through your past posts and I don't have a good feeling about this. Some people are givers, some are takers, some are give&takers. I think he could very well be a taker in this relationship for 2 reasons:
1. you felt the fact that his ex's family was well-to-do was, to him, a big plus for the relationship
2. You were insecure about your parents having mannerisms that are not upper class. Instead of reassuring you while you were vulnerable, his actions in that situation made your insecurity seem well founded.
I feel that your anxiety is rooted in the fact that you don't feel comfortable in your skin, because you went to Oxbridge, and you must have had to 'pass' as one of them during those 3 years. You also said you felt like the black sheep in your family.
This discomfort with your identity and how you see yourself is causing you to not consciously love yourself as you are. So, you go after men that either validate this notion or validate the fact that you're good enough by -them- being good enough.
I think you should leave this relationship and -single or not- find yourself, love yourself and make your self be your world and anchor. If you want to get into a new relationship and not take time off, write down the qualities of who you want to be with. Imagine your life in 5, 10 years with the baby you want. Does that man fit in that picture? If not, rewrite that list. Then meet as many people as you can, and don't take your focus off that list.
posted by kinoeye at 5:13 PM on September 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
1. you felt the fact that his ex's family was well-to-do was, to him, a big plus for the relationship
2. You were insecure about your parents having mannerisms that are not upper class. Instead of reassuring you while you were vulnerable, his actions in that situation made your insecurity seem well founded.
I feel that your anxiety is rooted in the fact that you don't feel comfortable in your skin, because you went to Oxbridge, and you must have had to 'pass' as one of them during those 3 years. You also said you felt like the black sheep in your family.
This discomfort with your identity and how you see yourself is causing you to not consciously love yourself as you are. So, you go after men that either validate this notion or validate the fact that you're good enough by -them- being good enough.
I think you should leave this relationship and -single or not- find yourself, love yourself and make your self be your world and anchor. If you want to get into a new relationship and not take time off, write down the qualities of who you want to be with. Imagine your life in 5, 10 years with the baby you want. Does that man fit in that picture? If not, rewrite that list. Then meet as many people as you can, and don't take your focus off that list.
posted by kinoeye at 5:13 PM on September 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm trying to find this story I heard on a podcast or NPR about a guy who I think was a comedian, whose son died of cancer and he divorced his wife, and he met a new woman he feel madly in love with. He was diagnosed with cancer himself within a year of dating his new love, and so he broke up with her because he couldn't bear to tell her about his pain, BUT did want someone to take care of him so...
he went back to his ex wife, started a romantic relationship with her again expressly so she would take care of him during treatment (one thing he distinctly said, when the interviewer expressed shock that he let his ex wife take care of him then left her again (because the comedian was back with his new girl once the cancer was in remission)) was that he wanted to let his ex wife take care of him because "she was so good at taking care of our son when he was sick" that it made sense to him to go to her and trick her into caring for him. But when he started getting better, he used to go spy on the woman he was really in love with. He saw her with a man in her apt and freaked out, left a note on her car, left his ex wife pretty promptly, and went to be with his true love. He's fine now, and he and his new love got married and had babies.
I'll try to find it by googling the quote and MeMail the link to you. But my point is, there are takers who have no compunction taking from givers. They're not evil people, but they think it makes you really happy and it's not like they're asking for it---you want to do it, etc is their reasoning and why they don't feel guilty.
You're a little trapped here---nobody wants to be the woman who left a man with cancer. You may have been socialized to give freely without expecting anything in return and that's the only way you can be kind, selfless and good (everything a woman has to be no matter what, apparently).
I think you need to get some time and space from him, for your own sake. It's not going to be easy, you'll need a therapist to help you feel less badly about it, but you found yourself in a really difficult position and there's a good chance he's not the one from you. Start getting a little distance.
posted by discopolo at 7:20 PM on September 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
he went back to his ex wife, started a romantic relationship with her again expressly so she would take care of him during treatment (one thing he distinctly said, when the interviewer expressed shock that he let his ex wife take care of him then left her again (because the comedian was back with his new girl once the cancer was in remission)) was that he wanted to let his ex wife take care of him because "she was so good at taking care of our son when he was sick" that it made sense to him to go to her and trick her into caring for him. But when he started getting better, he used to go spy on the woman he was really in love with. He saw her with a man in her apt and freaked out, left a note on her car, left his ex wife pretty promptly, and went to be with his true love. He's fine now, and he and his new love got married and had babies.
I'll try to find it by googling the quote and MeMail the link to you. But my point is, there are takers who have no compunction taking from givers. They're not evil people, but they think it makes you really happy and it's not like they're asking for it---you want to do it, etc is their reasoning and why they don't feel guilty.
You're a little trapped here---nobody wants to be the woman who left a man with cancer. You may have been socialized to give freely without expecting anything in return and that's the only way you can be kind, selfless and good (everything a woman has to be no matter what, apparently).
I think you need to get some time and space from him, for your own sake. It's not going to be easy, you'll need a therapist to help you feel less badly about it, but you found yourself in a really difficult position and there's a good chance he's not the one from you. Start getting a little distance.
posted by discopolo at 7:20 PM on September 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
I read your other posts as well. All of them have been about this relationship. It seems to have made you anxious and insecure from the beginning. When the anxiety wore off, you questioned whether you were really into him. Then it seemed like things got better and then he got sick.
What no one has mentioned yet is that you've proven your loyalty and commitment to him already by being there for him during this illness. Why is he still uncertain? You've already gone through an extreme bonding experience and seen each other through some tough times. I understand his concerns about going back to school and not being ready to think about kids, given the circumstances. But something feels off to me about his concerns about your relationship. It's been a year. I really think orange swan is right that by this time, he should know, cancer or no cancer. And I agree with her also that him thinking of it as something he should "reward" doesn't sound like something you would say to someone you might marry. Instead of thinking of it as quid pro quo, someone you want to marry/wants to marry you would be thinking, "of course there is no question that I'd do the same for her" and "she's been there for me through thick and thin, she is the one."
I really wish scody were still here to give her perspective. But you can look through her posting history about when she had cancer and her boyfriend was a standup partner the whole time, and see what that looks like.
I'm sorry you've had so much stress in this relationship. I have an anxiety disorder and abandonment issues too, so I deeply empathize with what you've posted about.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 7:54 PM on September 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
What no one has mentioned yet is that you've proven your loyalty and commitment to him already by being there for him during this illness. Why is he still uncertain? You've already gone through an extreme bonding experience and seen each other through some tough times. I understand his concerns about going back to school and not being ready to think about kids, given the circumstances. But something feels off to me about his concerns about your relationship. It's been a year. I really think orange swan is right that by this time, he should know, cancer or no cancer. And I agree with her also that him thinking of it as something he should "reward" doesn't sound like something you would say to someone you might marry. Instead of thinking of it as quid pro quo, someone you want to marry/wants to marry you would be thinking, "of course there is no question that I'd do the same for her" and "she's been there for me through thick and thin, she is the one."
I really wish scody were still here to give her perspective. But you can look through her posting history about when she had cancer and her boyfriend was a standup partner the whole time, and see what that looks like.
I'm sorry you've had so much stress in this relationship. I have an anxiety disorder and abandonment issues too, so I deeply empathize with what you've posted about.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 7:54 PM on September 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oddly, I was in a very similar position to yours once. Here is what I found. Cancer makes it really difficult for people to predict mental states in the future and to commit to plans. A healthy partner has the luxury of making certain kinds of plans and prioritizing certain kinds of wishes; a partner with cancer has to reckon with a different calculus. People can be on very different timelines to start with, and cancer is a hell of a disruptor of timelines. Nobody really wants to spend their lives with a martyr. Also, no one really wants to needily ask for someone's support cynically and temporarily during the rough patches, knowing in their hearts that this isn't the life partner for them. Pearl928, above, lays out some simple premises. Sad as it may be, you really have to prioritize yourself. If you're ready to move on and find a more viable partner, you need to do that.
You are going to be a shitty partner for this guy if he gets through treatment and decides he doesn't want to have kids, or doesn't want to make any further commitments to you. That sets you up for resentment and anger at your "wasted" time with him. There's an alternate scenario where this cancer is very clarifying for him and he realizes he does want to be with you and progress the relationship and have a family - but it honestly sounds like that is not the scenario he is living in, and he is being realistic. He wisely wants to hedge his bets, and make few commitments, because he does not know who he's going to be in six months and how he's going to feel about the big life questions, and he's unable to ask you for a commitment because of that. That's to his credit. I think if he felt completely solid that you two should be together against all odds - he'd ask you. But he's not doing that.
Personally, facing up to the emotional and pyschological power of cancer, I felt it was fair to fold my cards and let cancer win. It is absolutely okay for you to say "we are both dealing with too much now, and this is a terrible time for you to make big decisions. I want to make this all simpler and recognize that the timing isn't right, and take my needs/hopes/demands off the table for us. Your job is to get better, mine is to pursue these goals I have, and if we try to put those two things together it's likely we won't achieve either of them and will hurt each other in the process."
That's a very bittersweet sort of outcome, but it's a very tough situation and one in which no one should feel the slightest bit of shame about their actions/choices. I would encourage you to feel less panic and urgency - you're extremely young, still, in baby-having terms. Many people have not even met a viable partner until years past where you are. You will have opportunities to make the kind of match you want. The bigger issue, I think, is that he doesn't have clarity on you and whether he'd be looking at a life plan with you even in the absence of cancer, let alone with it and all of its mindfucks. And that you, frankly, also seem to be looking for a partner as a way out - your roommate and money situations aren't his to solve and really shouldn't be solved by finding a partner, but by figuring out how to make your life work better. You're bringing a lot of need into this, and he isn't a position to really cater to that need too well.
I'd say it's amazing you made it this far, but there are real, smart, solid reasons why the two of you, maturely, might decide to put everything on pause while he finishes treatment, and pursue your own goals individually for a while. It sucks that cancer fucked up the timing of what might normally unfold as a graduated-intimacy relationship where you figure out whether you do or don't want to be life partners, but it really does fuck that sort of thing up, and you can't wish it away - it's there, and it brings its own rules. It really forces a hand. So if either of you weren't at the point of feeling sure about your commitments to one another already, cancer is going to absolutely insist on posing its own set of uncertainties, not just now, but for years to come, and he has the right to react to them however feels appropriate to him, as do you. And it is okay for a person in your position to say, regretfully, "there are too many uncertainties for me."
posted by Miko at 8:36 PM on September 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
You are going to be a shitty partner for this guy if he gets through treatment and decides he doesn't want to have kids, or doesn't want to make any further commitments to you. That sets you up for resentment and anger at your "wasted" time with him. There's an alternate scenario where this cancer is very clarifying for him and he realizes he does want to be with you and progress the relationship and have a family - but it honestly sounds like that is not the scenario he is living in, and he is being realistic. He wisely wants to hedge his bets, and make few commitments, because he does not know who he's going to be in six months and how he's going to feel about the big life questions, and he's unable to ask you for a commitment because of that. That's to his credit. I think if he felt completely solid that you two should be together against all odds - he'd ask you. But he's not doing that.
Personally, facing up to the emotional and pyschological power of cancer, I felt it was fair to fold my cards and let cancer win. It is absolutely okay for you to say "we are both dealing with too much now, and this is a terrible time for you to make big decisions. I want to make this all simpler and recognize that the timing isn't right, and take my needs/hopes/demands off the table for us. Your job is to get better, mine is to pursue these goals I have, and if we try to put those two things together it's likely we won't achieve either of them and will hurt each other in the process."
That's a very bittersweet sort of outcome, but it's a very tough situation and one in which no one should feel the slightest bit of shame about their actions/choices. I would encourage you to feel less panic and urgency - you're extremely young, still, in baby-having terms. Many people have not even met a viable partner until years past where you are. You will have opportunities to make the kind of match you want. The bigger issue, I think, is that he doesn't have clarity on you and whether he'd be looking at a life plan with you even in the absence of cancer, let alone with it and all of its mindfucks. And that you, frankly, also seem to be looking for a partner as a way out - your roommate and money situations aren't his to solve and really shouldn't be solved by finding a partner, but by figuring out how to make your life work better. You're bringing a lot of need into this, and he isn't a position to really cater to that need too well.
I'd say it's amazing you made it this far, but there are real, smart, solid reasons why the two of you, maturely, might decide to put everything on pause while he finishes treatment, and pursue your own goals individually for a while. It sucks that cancer fucked up the timing of what might normally unfold as a graduated-intimacy relationship where you figure out whether you do or don't want to be life partners, but it really does fuck that sort of thing up, and you can't wish it away - it's there, and it brings its own rules. It really forces a hand. So if either of you weren't at the point of feeling sure about your commitments to one another already, cancer is going to absolutely insist on posing its own set of uncertainties, not just now, but for years to come, and he has the right to react to them however feels appropriate to him, as do you. And it is okay for a person in your position to say, regretfully, "there are too many uncertainties for me."
posted by Miko at 8:36 PM on September 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
To me, this all boils down to:
(a) You can't reasonably expect a guy with cancer to commit to future life plans right now. He is in indefinite limbo trying to figure out if he's going to live to have a future. He doesn't know if he has one so he can't know if he has one with you. I don't think you can ask him to nail this down now or ...who knows when.
(b) Even if cancer weren't a factor, he doesn't sound 100% sold on you and definitely confident that he wants to spend whatever time he has left, if it's 5 days, 50 weeks or 50 years, with you.
(c) You are in The Clock Is Ticking mode and nobody can think straight when that's going on. I concur that it sounds like a gamble that isn't likely to go well.
My conclusion: break up with him, maybe remain friends eventually, but go find a babydaddy who's sure he wants to be your babydaddy. You don't have another 5-10 years to see if this one will pan out, or at least the waiting would drive you nuts, and there's nothing but uncertainty going on for him right now indefinitely.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:02 PM on September 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
(a) You can't reasonably expect a guy with cancer to commit to future life plans right now. He is in indefinite limbo trying to figure out if he's going to live to have a future. He doesn't know if he has one so he can't know if he has one with you. I don't think you can ask him to nail this down now or ...who knows when.
(b) Even if cancer weren't a factor, he doesn't sound 100% sold on you and definitely confident that he wants to spend whatever time he has left, if it's 5 days, 50 weeks or 50 years, with you.
(c) You are in The Clock Is Ticking mode and nobody can think straight when that's going on. I concur that it sounds like a gamble that isn't likely to go well.
My conclusion: break up with him, maybe remain friends eventually, but go find a babydaddy who's sure he wants to be your babydaddy. You don't have another 5-10 years to see if this one will pan out, or at least the waiting would drive you nuts, and there's nothing but uncertainty going on for him right now indefinitely.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:02 PM on September 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
At 31, I believe you are still young enough to donate eggs. Have you thought of donating ($$$) and then using that money (or other funds) to freeze your eggs? This is for you, for your future, regardless of this man (or any man).
I am sympathetic to your boyfriend but he has had no problems letting YOU commit.
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 9:38 PM on September 27, 2015
I am sympathetic to your boyfriend but he has had no problems letting YOU commit.
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 9:38 PM on September 27, 2015
Speaking from cancer-having experience, and in response to the OP and to some of the comments upthread: When you can't trust your body, your independence, or your ability to take care of yourself, it's hard to embrace plans for the future with any sense that you can actually accomplish what you are planning. After my treatment was over, I struggled almost as hard with rebuilding my trust in myself as I had with surviving chemo. There is no way I could have done right by my end of a new-ish relationship during that time.
I can also cop to a level of self-absorption following my diagnosis that I had never experienced before, which did not always go over well with my friends and family. I started chemo 10 days after my diagnosis, and had a horrific time of it. Every single day for the six months I was in active treatment, every person I talked to wanted to talk about me and how I was feeling. When treatment came to a close, I didn't have the emotional awareness available to realize that the time for constantly talking about me was also over, and I learned quick that I'm not good at being self-absorbed. If you are a jerk when you get cancer you may do your illness like one, but if you are not a jerk when you get cancer, you might still do your illness like one because you are just not operating in the world the way you normally would.
You sound like a good woman who stood by someone that really needed help, but although you were present with him, you did not experience what he experienced. Nothing about having serious cancer - or any life threatening illness - makes sense. He's not the same guy you began dating and it's not the same relationship. Setting your expectations as if it were doesn't seem realistic or fair to either one of you.
posted by deliciae at 10:44 PM on September 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
I can also cop to a level of self-absorption following my diagnosis that I had never experienced before, which did not always go over well with my friends and family. I started chemo 10 days after my diagnosis, and had a horrific time of it. Every single day for the six months I was in active treatment, every person I talked to wanted to talk about me and how I was feeling. When treatment came to a close, I didn't have the emotional awareness available to realize that the time for constantly talking about me was also over, and I learned quick that I'm not good at being self-absorbed. If you are a jerk when you get cancer you may do your illness like one, but if you are not a jerk when you get cancer, you might still do your illness like one because you are just not operating in the world the way you normally would.
You sound like a good woman who stood by someone that really needed help, but although you were present with him, you did not experience what he experienced. Nothing about having serious cancer - or any life threatening illness - makes sense. He's not the same guy you began dating and it's not the same relationship. Setting your expectations as if it were doesn't seem realistic or fair to either one of you.
posted by deliciae at 10:44 PM on September 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
Yeah, he has the very common male problem of not feeling the same pressure of time that you do. If he did, he would not have switched careers and would not have no savings. He would have already thought at age 25 or whatever "I want kids by 35, have to plan life to accommodate that" the way probably the majority of women do. Some guys do think that way, probably for cultural reasons or because they're just natural family-oriented types. But a lot of guys (especially creative career types, IME) are more the "feel that urge starting at age 40 or even later" type. He's that type. He's got all the signs. The "can't think of it right now" the "someday I want kids"- your biological clock is a vague abstraction to him. I bet you he hasn't even thought about it in the same way you no doubt do- breaking it down into months (9 months for pregnancy, who knows how many while trying to get pregnant, takes a year to plan a wedding, what if I want more than one kid??) I virtually guarantee he has not even thought about it in those same terms. And that's essentially the problem here.
Let him go, he sounds like the type who is better off pursuing personal growth in his 30s and late fatherhood at 40 or whatever. You need to take care of you. His "not going to hold you back" speech is just letting you down easy. Or attempting to.
posted by quincunx at 8:12 AM on September 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
Let him go, he sounds like the type who is better off pursuing personal growth in his 30s and late fatherhood at 40 or whatever. You need to take care of you. His "not going to hold you back" speech is just letting you down easy. Or attempting to.
posted by quincunx at 8:12 AM on September 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
Addendum: I just went back and read all of your prior questions about this guy (all 4? 5? Of them) Jeez Louise, this relationship is causing you a lot of stress. You worry he didn't text you at the beginning, then he didn't say "I love you" for a long time etc., etc.
I didn't worry about those things with my boyfriend. Why? Because I didn't have time. He was right there, texting me, saying I love you and all of that- in some cases erring on the side of too much, too soon!
I also read that this guy had a prior 6 year relationship with a wealthy woman. That explains a lot. Explains why he didn't feel the need to get a better paying job until they broke up, for one. You both live in London? And neither of you has savings? Ouch.
Do you tend to be attracted only to starving artists? (Read a bit about your prior relationships, seems like it may be so). Is it because those are the men you meet through your circles? Can you meet a solid type with a boring math-y technical career somewhere? Break the mold a little bit?
posted by quincunx at 9:02 AM on September 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
I didn't worry about those things with my boyfriend. Why? Because I didn't have time. He was right there, texting me, saying I love you and all of that- in some cases erring on the side of too much, too soon!
I also read that this guy had a prior 6 year relationship with a wealthy woman. That explains a lot. Explains why he didn't feel the need to get a better paying job until they broke up, for one. You both live in London? And neither of you has savings? Ouch.
Do you tend to be attracted only to starving artists? (Read a bit about your prior relationships, seems like it may be so). Is it because those are the men you meet through your circles? Can you meet a solid type with a boring math-y technical career somewhere? Break the mold a little bit?
posted by quincunx at 9:02 AM on September 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
I just went back and read all of your prior questions about this guy
I did too, at this suggestion, and it really confirmed my opinion: you're getting very little out of this relationship; it has caused you anxiety from the beginning because of his ambivalence about commitment; and at this point, it seems he is, to some degree, using you for companionship while abdicating himself of the need to deal with your needs and hopes for the relationships - partly due to the self-focus required for dealing with cancer, but also, partly because he isn't thinking about you and your experience at all - didn't do it before, and isn't doing it now. He doesn't really seem like a great guy who wants to be with you except for this pesky cancer thing. He seems like someone content to coast in this situation indefinitely and who is putting a lot of burden on you to deal with his problems, health, monetary, and otherwise while not offering you the commitment you need. Knowing everything you wrote in your past questions, yes, I'd encourage you to say "I need to step away from this as a romantic relationship until such time as we both have a clearer picture of what we want and need in future." I think you've given away far too much goodwill, patience and generosity already, and he's been taking advantage for a long time. He isn't ready, willing, or able, to commit, and being sick is going to delay that even further - if it ever happens. It's a really bad gamble.
posted by Miko at 1:59 PM on September 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
I did too, at this suggestion, and it really confirmed my opinion: you're getting very little out of this relationship; it has caused you anxiety from the beginning because of his ambivalence about commitment; and at this point, it seems he is, to some degree, using you for companionship while abdicating himself of the need to deal with your needs and hopes for the relationships - partly due to the self-focus required for dealing with cancer, but also, partly because he isn't thinking about you and your experience at all - didn't do it before, and isn't doing it now. He doesn't really seem like a great guy who wants to be with you except for this pesky cancer thing. He seems like someone content to coast in this situation indefinitely and who is putting a lot of burden on you to deal with his problems, health, monetary, and otherwise while not offering you the commitment you need. Knowing everything you wrote in your past questions, yes, I'd encourage you to say "I need to step away from this as a romantic relationship until such time as we both have a clearer picture of what we want and need in future." I think you've given away far too much goodwill, patience and generosity already, and he's been taking advantage for a long time. He isn't ready, willing, or able, to commit, and being sick is going to delay that even further - if it ever happens. It's a really bad gamble.
posted by Miko at 1:59 PM on September 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
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And those comments of his about feeling obligated to "reward" you, and you "always bringing up these things" [i.e., living together] at the wrong time are setting my teeth on edge. These are not the kind of attitudes you would hear from a guy who sincerely wants to spend the rest of his life with you.
posted by orange swan at 12:58 PM on September 27, 2015 [10 favorites]