How to meet men as an introverted, attractive, "successful" 20-30s woman
August 30, 2015 3:17 PM Subscribe
I'm an attractive, successful, and put-together woman in my late 20s, and find it impossible to meet men I'm interested in. I have zero social circle in my newish city, live and work with older people with families, and have had no luck online. I'm also not naturally outgoing so don't meet people at random places. Not desperate but just want to find a good person to share my life with. What's a girl to do?
I've asked coworkers but most are older than me. I've tried tinder, okcupid, meetup, and even paid for match, but it's been disappointing. Not sure if online is right for me. It always ends up disappointing, people are less attractive than they portray on their profiles, and you can tell instantly there's no chemistry. What's worse is that since I'm introverted, I feel like I have to expend energy to finish the date when I'd rather be at home!
I do have to say I have high standards, not in terms of material goods and accocolades, but in the depth, humor, and values of people in my life. I'd like to believe I'm awesome, and I want my partner to be able to keep up. Most people who contact me are boring, unattractive, or seem to be unable to string together a full sentence. I've always had to be the asker of dates I'm interested in, and even those are hard to find. I'm not aggressive or scary-- just confident and upfront, even in real life.
Summary is I can't seem to meet single, attractive, intelligent gentlemen who have their lives together. Are they too rare or all taken? Advice appreciated.
I've asked coworkers but most are older than me. I've tried tinder, okcupid, meetup, and even paid for match, but it's been disappointing. Not sure if online is right for me. It always ends up disappointing, people are less attractive than they portray on their profiles, and you can tell instantly there's no chemistry. What's worse is that since I'm introverted, I feel like I have to expend energy to finish the date when I'd rather be at home!
I do have to say I have high standards, not in terms of material goods and accocolades, but in the depth, humor, and values of people in my life. I'd like to believe I'm awesome, and I want my partner to be able to keep up. Most people who contact me are boring, unattractive, or seem to be unable to string together a full sentence. I've always had to be the asker of dates I'm interested in, and even those are hard to find. I'm not aggressive or scary-- just confident and upfront, even in real life.
Summary is I can't seem to meet single, attractive, intelligent gentlemen who have their lives together. Are they too rare or all taken? Advice appreciated.
I have zero social circle in my newish city
And what city is that?
posted by John Cohen at 3:39 PM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
And what city is that?
posted by John Cohen at 3:39 PM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Portland OR. I'm also not a hipster so that doesn't help.
posted by ribboncake at 3:46 PM on August 30, 2015
posted by ribboncake at 3:46 PM on August 30, 2015
Consider dating people who don't look like your type (e.g. hipsters, hippies, whatever). I find that when I get to know people, even who seem quite different from me initially, I'm always surprised about the ways we can connect.
It also seems like the first step would just be making friends, so that you're going out more and meeting more people. You sound a little judgmental here (Most people who contact me are boring, unattractive, or seem to be unable to string together a full sentence), so I'd suggest trying hard to give people a little more of a chance before you write them off (in general, friends and potential romantic connections). Look for what you can appreciate about them rather than focusing on what you dislike.
Portland is a small-ish city, but I refuse to believe that there aren't a plethora of attractive, deep, funny single guys there who share your values. I don't know you, but having lived there before myself, I met many who met those criteria for me. It's true that you have to be willing to expend the effort to go out (like you, I'd rather be at home).
posted by three_red_balloons at 3:59 PM on August 30, 2015 [6 favorites]
It also seems like the first step would just be making friends, so that you're going out more and meeting more people. You sound a little judgmental here (Most people who contact me are boring, unattractive, or seem to be unable to string together a full sentence), so I'd suggest trying hard to give people a little more of a chance before you write them off (in general, friends and potential romantic connections). Look for what you can appreciate about them rather than focusing on what you dislike.
Portland is a small-ish city, but I refuse to believe that there aren't a plethora of attractive, deep, funny single guys there who share your values. I don't know you, but having lived there before myself, I met many who met those criteria for me. It's true that you have to be willing to expend the effort to go out (like you, I'd rather be at home).
posted by three_red_balloons at 3:59 PM on August 30, 2015 [6 favorites]
I generally do better if I build the social circle first, then work on the dating. However YMMV.
It seems like every city is different when it comes to dating. I'd say try online again, but aim for very short first meetings - and think of them as first meetings, not dates. Coffee, a beer, something that you can easily cut short or extend if you want to.
Alternatively, you could focus on doing things where you are likely to meet people. As an introvert I prefer classes or volunteering to hanging out at a bar, festival or other event where interaction is free-flowing and where I have to make multiple choices to attempt awkward conversation.
Good luck.
posted by bunderful at 4:02 PM on August 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
It seems like every city is different when it comes to dating. I'd say try online again, but aim for very short first meetings - and think of them as first meetings, not dates. Coffee, a beer, something that you can easily cut short or extend if you want to.
Alternatively, you could focus on doing things where you are likely to meet people. As an introvert I prefer classes or volunteering to hanging out at a bar, festival or other event where interaction is free-flowing and where I have to make multiple choices to attempt awkward conversation.
Good luck.
posted by bunderful at 4:02 PM on August 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
What do you do for fun? Meeting people at random places is a skill I've never mastered, but most of my dates (and relationships) as an introverted woman have come about through activities I do outside of work.
posted by telegraph at 4:05 PM on August 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by telegraph at 4:05 PM on August 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
When I was in the SF Bay Area, I picked up men without trying by hanging out on a chat program where I had a profile showing my location and a photo of me. "Pick up" lines from my end included admitting I write html by hand and was female.
Also, I get the impression you are in mefi meetup central. Perhaps going to meetups would help you build a social circle quickly.
posted by Michele in California at 4:06 PM on August 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Also, I get the impression you are in mefi meetup central. Perhaps going to meetups would help you build a social circle quickly.
posted by Michele in California at 4:06 PM on August 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Look for places where you'll interact with the same people consistently and frequently. I met my husband because we were on the same marathon training team. Saturday runs, Monday night runs, Thursday night runs - that a lot of time to get to know someone. I know at least 10 couples who met and married from Team in Training (we call it Team in Dating).
posted by 26.2 at 4:25 PM on August 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by 26.2 at 4:25 PM on August 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
Do you have realistic standards, or are you living with an image in your head? You really do sound pretty judgemental in the way you approach dating-- how quickly you dismiss the men you meet. There are plenty of nice single guys in your age range. Trust me on this.
I'm struck by the fact that you mention that you have zero social life in Portland. Do you like the city at all? I ask, because it's much easier to find a date who shares your values and outlook via a healthy social circle. I think expectations are also lower, since the person is an adjunct to your life and isn't expected to jump start it.
Anyhow-- as a fellow introvert, I have the best luck meeting people (dates and otherwise) through groups which center around my hobbies. I run and hike, and you've got plenty of opportunity for both in Portland without being a hipster. (I always suggest hiking and running because both are good hobbies for introverts, are good for your health, and the kinds of people who participate in both are generally really great. Solid folks.) Meetup is a wonderful resource, whatever hobby interests you.
posted by frumiousb at 4:35 PM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm struck by the fact that you mention that you have zero social life in Portland. Do you like the city at all? I ask, because it's much easier to find a date who shares your values and outlook via a healthy social circle. I think expectations are also lower, since the person is an adjunct to your life and isn't expected to jump start it.
Anyhow-- as a fellow introvert, I have the best luck meeting people (dates and otherwise) through groups which center around my hobbies. I run and hike, and you've got plenty of opportunity for both in Portland without being a hipster. (I always suggest hiking and running because both are good hobbies for introverts, are good for your health, and the kinds of people who participate in both are generally really great. Solid folks.) Meetup is a wonderful resource, whatever hobby interests you.
posted by frumiousb at 4:35 PM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
ribboncake, you're me! (Minus the whole part about living in a new city, and rather than in my late 20s I'm firmly in my 30s.)
I'm a big believer of getting to know friends (and potential boyfriends, from these friends), from hobbies.
I also originally posted this around 2 months ago- and I think my luck in getting to know more friends is getting better since then :-)
Are there any introvert-y hobbies (like running and hiking, as that you enjoy doing in your spare time? Have you looked into regular, weekly classes or meetups on these? That's a very good opener to getting to know friends in the city or even people. To make this easier and more comfortable on you, you can pick a smaller-group activity that doesn't involve lots of crowds. (I went to a very crowded festival meetup this Saturday and I didn't really enjoy all the standing and waiting in queues. I don't think I'll do much festival meetups in the future...)
Cool Papa Bell's suggestion to do opposite of what you usually do works to a certain extent in terms of discovering new hobbies. But you don't have to feel like you need to go to, say, a food truck festival if you like reading in a quiet coffee house; or feel like you need to go to 3 meetups a week for every week standing (I've tried that a couple times and I find that I need at least 1 week's worth of downtime after around 4 weeks of 3 meetups/week...). Do whatever feels the most authentic to you, so you better attract the folks who you like.
Hope this helps, and best of luck to you!
posted by Tsukushi at 4:52 PM on August 30, 2015
I'm a big believer of getting to know friends (and potential boyfriends, from these friends), from hobbies.
I also originally posted this around 2 months ago- and I think my luck in getting to know more friends is getting better since then :-)
Are there any introvert-y hobbies (like running and hiking, as that you enjoy doing in your spare time? Have you looked into regular, weekly classes or meetups on these? That's a very good opener to getting to know friends in the city or even people. To make this easier and more comfortable on you, you can pick a smaller-group activity that doesn't involve lots of crowds. (I went to a very crowded festival meetup this Saturday and I didn't really enjoy all the standing and waiting in queues. I don't think I'll do much festival meetups in the future...)
Cool Papa Bell's suggestion to do opposite of what you usually do works to a certain extent in terms of discovering new hobbies. But you don't have to feel like you need to go to, say, a food truck festival if you like reading in a quiet coffee house; or feel like you need to go to 3 meetups a week for every week standing (I've tried that a couple times and I find that I need at least 1 week's worth of downtime after around 4 weeks of 3 meetups/week...). Do whatever feels the most authentic to you, so you better attract the folks who you like.
Hope this helps, and best of luck to you!
posted by Tsukushi at 4:52 PM on August 30, 2015
I haven't done more than complete the quizzes on OKC, so don't know much about online dating in general, but are you heavily weighting introversion (including questions addressing behaviours characteristic of introverts) for your desired partner on the OkCupid questions? That might artificially inflate the match %. (Introversion is of course completely fine as a trait on its own, more than fine, but sadly, it's often correlated with lower achievement and career success, because of how our culture rewards extraversion. You might be matching people strongly on introversion but weakly on other dimensions.) If you are, maybe deleting all your questions and skipping over some of those kinds of questions when they turn up would change the results. (This would only be relevant for sites that use OKC's style of algorithm & don't make other assumptions about ideal matches.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 5:01 PM on August 30, 2015
posted by cotton dress sock at 5:01 PM on August 30, 2015
Oh - also.
Make sure you're giving it enough time. I've heard you have to meet 100 people. Which may not be accurate, but so many people seem to go on a few dates, meet 5-10 people, then throw up their hands and say "there's no one out there." There is, you just have to be patient and keep meeting more people.
posted by bunderful at 5:03 PM on August 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Make sure you're giving it enough time. I've heard you have to meet 100 people. Which may not be accurate, but so many people seem to go on a few dates, meet 5-10 people, then throw up their hands and say "there's no one out there." There is, you just have to be patient and keep meeting more people.
posted by bunderful at 5:03 PM on August 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think maybe you need to give people a chance. I don't just mean potential boyfriends... if you don't have a social circle in your city, then first focus on making friends. Potential good quality dates will come later. Who knows, maybe you will befriend someone who will eventually become a boyfriend.
I agree with others who have said that you come across as kind of judgmental here. Also if you are new to a city and don't have any friends, I am surprised that your only concern is meeting potential dates. Perhaps you just need to be more open to people in general - if you take a genuine interest in people, you never know what will happen. You may find that you have more in common with people than you realize.
posted by barnoley at 5:12 PM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I agree with others who have said that you come across as kind of judgmental here. Also if you are new to a city and don't have any friends, I am surprised that your only concern is meeting potential dates. Perhaps you just need to be more open to people in general - if you take a genuine interest in people, you never know what will happen. You may find that you have more in common with people than you realize.
posted by barnoley at 5:12 PM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Summary is I can't seem to meet single, attractive, intelligent gentlemen who have their lives together. Are they too rare or all taken?
Yeah, they're pretty rare. Doesn't even seem like your standards are too high. Just keep at it, the thing is that it is exhausting so you should just expect that, introverted or not.
posted by zutalors! at 5:14 PM on August 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
I lived and attempted to date in Portland as a mid-20s straight female. My experience is that transplants really stick out there and the city doesn't tend to reward "successful and attractive transplants" (read: those who have kind of a yuppie vibe) like most other cities in America do.
Seattle I had much better luck in, because there seem to be a lot of lonely tech dudes. But neither Portland nor Seattle had that "suit wearing successful yuppie late 20s guy" cohort that say, New York or L.A. has. Or pretty much any large enough city in middle-America has.
I moved back to Austin eventually and the difference in dating success was immediately noticeable. In lieu of moving, I would strongly recommend dropping the "attractive" bar you're setting for dates. Looks in men are overrated in my personal and idiosyncratic opinion that there is no need to deve into here, for many reasons. (don't drop the "good person" requirements, though.)
posted by quincunx at 6:22 PM on August 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Seattle I had much better luck in, because there seem to be a lot of lonely tech dudes. But neither Portland nor Seattle had that "suit wearing successful yuppie late 20s guy" cohort that say, New York or L.A. has. Or pretty much any large enough city in middle-America has.
I moved back to Austin eventually and the difference in dating success was immediately noticeable. In lieu of moving, I would strongly recommend dropping the "attractive" bar you're setting for dates. Looks in men are overrated in my personal and idiosyncratic opinion that there is no need to deve into here, for many reasons. (don't drop the "good person" requirements, though.)
posted by quincunx at 6:22 PM on August 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
I really think you need to solve the 'zero social circle' issue first, because that will be a more satisfying life event in and of itself (if your social circle is in good shape than finding a partner becomes more of a nice add-on rather than an imperative) *and* the social circle will help with finding a partner.
I check most of your boxes (my divorce is dragging on to some degree) and I find women with few friends to be a serious red flag. I wonder whether your high standards for men are bleeding over into many of your social interactions? People can tell when you don't treat them as equals and they don't like it. It can be really rewarding to put yourself out there and be nice, even when you think someone is dumb or boring or whatever.
Anecdote: recently, a co-worker who I had thought of basically as "nebbishy bore who isn't that good at his job" sent around an email to the work listserv that his band had gotten back together and were playing a show. I didn't have anything going on and the show was conveniently located, so I went. And...his band is good! He's a confident frontman and a good guitarist! His friends are cool! His wife is funny and hot! I met some cool new people and gained a lot of respect for him and saw a fun rock show. It wouldn't have been so easy to go if I hadn't been impeccably friendly with him despite my private thoughts...it doesn't mean I don't make my own judgments but that I recognize that my judgments are fallible and I act on them in ways that remain private insofar as that is possible.
Sometimes people don't show you their best sides and you have to just be nice to them and give them a chance while keeping your expectations low. I don't know how that manifests in dating, but I think it's one of the keys to building a satisfying social life.
posted by Kwine at 6:50 PM on August 30, 2015 [11 favorites]
I check most of your boxes (my divorce is dragging on to some degree) and I find women with few friends to be a serious red flag. I wonder whether your high standards for men are bleeding over into many of your social interactions? People can tell when you don't treat them as equals and they don't like it. It can be really rewarding to put yourself out there and be nice, even when you think someone is dumb or boring or whatever.
Anecdote: recently, a co-worker who I had thought of basically as "nebbishy bore who isn't that good at his job" sent around an email to the work listserv that his band had gotten back together and were playing a show. I didn't have anything going on and the show was conveniently located, so I went. And...his band is good! He's a confident frontman and a good guitarist! His friends are cool! His wife is funny and hot! I met some cool new people and gained a lot of respect for him and saw a fun rock show. It wouldn't have been so easy to go if I hadn't been impeccably friendly with him despite my private thoughts...it doesn't mean I don't make my own judgments but that I recognize that my judgments are fallible and I act on them in ways that remain private insofar as that is possible.
Sometimes people don't show you their best sides and you have to just be nice to them and give them a chance while keeping your expectations low. I don't know how that manifests in dating, but I think it's one of the keys to building a satisfying social life.
posted by Kwine at 6:50 PM on August 30, 2015 [11 favorites]
Yes, nthing the advice to find a social circle first! It is the best way to end up dating someone who shares your interests and your outlook on life. As for how to find a social circle, well, it's kind of the million dollar question but most of mine is currently composed of people I met at MeFi IRL meetups, so I would recommend that for starters.
posted by capricorn at 7:26 PM on August 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by capricorn at 7:26 PM on August 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for the advice everyone! Regarding a social circle-- it's hard for even my therapist to understand, but I've given up on ever finding one and am ok with that. I've always been a lone wolf, and it's even harder to meet people as an adult. In my heart of hearts, I've always wanted a circle, but the reality is that it'll be a lot of effort that will end up in disappointment and time wasted (I prefer solitary activities and would rather spend my time on that than shallow small talk to be honest. I know its part of the game, but so exhausting,)
Yes, I can be quick to write people off especially online. There's still something to be said about attraction. Overweight men next to pictures of trucks is just not my thing, and it's not something I feel I need to feel bad about.
I appreciate people reflecting on my tone, because I didn't realize it's so obvious how judgemental I can be. Keep the advice coming.
posted by ribboncake at 7:32 PM on August 30, 2015
Yes, I can be quick to write people off especially online. There's still something to be said about attraction. Overweight men next to pictures of trucks is just not my thing, and it's not something I feel I need to feel bad about.
I appreciate people reflecting on my tone, because I didn't realize it's so obvious how judgemental I can be. Keep the advice coming.
posted by ribboncake at 7:32 PM on August 30, 2015
Just jumping in to say that you sound like me. I'm super introverted, and I'm pretty picky about friends and boyfriends b/c I have pretty high standards. The way I found my fiancee was by meeting him at work. I know, I know, not really the best. But I will say that, we were friends for like 2 years before anything went further. In fact, all of my relationships have sprung from friendships with men that grew into more over time. So, I know you say you have given up on finding a social circle, but if you really want to meet a nice man to spend your life with, it may be your best option. Just, it might be worth considering it again. Good luck!
posted by FireFountain at 7:48 PM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by FireFountain at 7:48 PM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Hey, I was in a similar boat a couple years ago: mid-30s professional, in Portland, looking for love.
I found the PDX selection on OKCupid to be really depressing. Nothing even close to what I was looking for! Months could pass before I saw someone on the site who I'd want to go out with. Sometimes I went on dates that I doubted were good matches, but I went anyway to make sure I wasn't psyching myself out of good guys. Those dates were usually awful. I got to the point where I was ready to move to a different city (to be fair, I was pretty tired of Portland at that point, too).
However! After being on OKC for less than a year, the guy who's now my BF messaged me. We've been dating for 2+ years, and it's wonderful. But you know what? If I hadn't met him, I totally would have moved to Seattle or the SF Bay, and that would have been the right decision for me.
OKC and other online venues can super suck. I'm saying this b/c nobody ever told me that, except in vague platitudes like "you have to kiss a lot of frogs." I would say that 90% of my experiences on that site were depressing, until I met my BF. But online dating is how things are done these days, so if you're looking for someone, your odds are better if you have an online profile.
I'm not saying stick it out in Portland! Maybe another city suits you better! But at least stick it out in online dating. You can search for guys in other cities as well--that's how a few of my friends ended up with their current spouses. They didn't feel limited by geography.
posted by homodachi at 9:28 PM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I found the PDX selection on OKCupid to be really depressing. Nothing even close to what I was looking for! Months could pass before I saw someone on the site who I'd want to go out with. Sometimes I went on dates that I doubted were good matches, but I went anyway to make sure I wasn't psyching myself out of good guys. Those dates were usually awful. I got to the point where I was ready to move to a different city (to be fair, I was pretty tired of Portland at that point, too).
However! After being on OKC for less than a year, the guy who's now my BF messaged me. We've been dating for 2+ years, and it's wonderful. But you know what? If I hadn't met him, I totally would have moved to Seattle or the SF Bay, and that would have been the right decision for me.
OKC and other online venues can super suck. I'm saying this b/c nobody ever told me that, except in vague platitudes like "you have to kiss a lot of frogs." I would say that 90% of my experiences on that site were depressing, until I met my BF. But online dating is how things are done these days, so if you're looking for someone, your odds are better if you have an online profile.
I'm not saying stick it out in Portland! Maybe another city suits you better! But at least stick it out in online dating. You can search for guys in other cities as well--that's how a few of my friends ended up with their current spouses. They didn't feel limited by geography.
posted by homodachi at 9:28 PM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
You're not having luck but per your follow up it doesn't seem like you're willing to try anything different (you prefer solitary activities, small talk is shallow, you don't want to make friends). If you want change, you need to instigate change.
Attraction is more than your physical appearance and your career success. A huge part of being attractive is how you make others feel about you. If you give off a rigid, judgmental, no-fun vibe, that could be the kicker in your otherwise stellar profile. Having no friends would only reinforce that impression.
And as Kwine mentioned, men who meet your high standards may see having no friends as a red flag for other potential issues. Aside from where their thoughts on this could lead (questions about your personality, the history and quality of your past friendships and relationships, your values, etc.), few people of the well-adjusted sort would feel good about having a partner who relies 100% on them for all their social and emotional needs. I'm not saying you'd be the dreaded stage five clinger, rather you seem independent to the extreme. But it wouldn't be unreasonable of a guy to be put off by it, or concerned by it.
I'm sorry if this sounds really harsh, but I really hope you would consider reevaluating the no social circle issue. I think it's a huge limiing factor, especially given that work and online dating have been dead ends for meeting suitable men. The best way to meet people you like is often through people you already like. You know, birds of a feather and all that. Could you maybe share some of your interests with us, and brainstorm ideas for meeting people?
posted by keep it under cover at 12:35 AM on August 31, 2015 [10 favorites]
Attraction is more than your physical appearance and your career success. A huge part of being attractive is how you make others feel about you. If you give off a rigid, judgmental, no-fun vibe, that could be the kicker in your otherwise stellar profile. Having no friends would only reinforce that impression.
And as Kwine mentioned, men who meet your high standards may see having no friends as a red flag for other potential issues. Aside from where their thoughts on this could lead (questions about your personality, the history and quality of your past friendships and relationships, your values, etc.), few people of the well-adjusted sort would feel good about having a partner who relies 100% on them for all their social and emotional needs. I'm not saying you'd be the dreaded stage five clinger, rather you seem independent to the extreme. But it wouldn't be unreasonable of a guy to be put off by it, or concerned by it.
I'm sorry if this sounds really harsh, but I really hope you would consider reevaluating the no social circle issue. I think it's a huge limiing factor, especially given that work and online dating have been dead ends for meeting suitable men. The best way to meet people you like is often through people you already like. You know, birds of a feather and all that. Could you maybe share some of your interests with us, and brainstorm ideas for meeting people?
posted by keep it under cover at 12:35 AM on August 31, 2015 [10 favorites]
Maybe just improve your screening skills for online dating? The ratio m/f should be far skewed in your favor.
"I'm an attractive, successful"
Just make sure that you understand as a woman that you won't be attractive BECAUSE you are successful. For women this is, in contrast to men, a mostly irrelevant asset in dating.
posted by yoyo_nyc at 2:21 AM on August 31, 2015
"I'm an attractive, successful"
Just make sure that you understand as a woman that you won't be attractive BECAUSE you are successful. For women this is, in contrast to men, a mostly irrelevant asset in dating.
posted by yoyo_nyc at 2:21 AM on August 31, 2015
Adding support for the for the suggestion of joining an activity to meet people. Even if there aren't any datable guys in that group, at least you're doing an activity that you like: community band/orchestra/choir, orienteering, after work yoga in the park, Hash House Harriers, bicycle club, knitting circle, Junior League, bowling league, sports and social club, playhouse or art or history or science museum's friends group (similar to this), Big Brothers and Big Sisters, and Jaycees. Another point of joining an extra-curricular activity is that you get practice interacting with people.
posted by dlwr300 at 6:42 AM on August 31, 2015
posted by dlwr300 at 6:42 AM on August 31, 2015
I think I get what you're saying, OP (to the point that I have even referred to myself as a lone wolf, too, from time to time), but I do think you need to reframe this. A romantic relationship is in the view of many a friendship plus extra stuff (romantic and sexual love, essentially). If you don't have friendships, have an interest in building them, enjoy building or having them, or even value them, I don't really understand how you can expect to (or even desire to?) have a romantic relationship.
There's been a lot written on the Green in the past about learning that small talk is not vacuous, pointless social interaction but actually a very universal way of putting someone at ease and laying the groundwork that can someday be a friendship or relationship. It's part of the social contract. You can't get there (friendships, relationships) from here (lone wolf) without treading some of the ground that you seem to find exhausting and beneath you.
That's why I'm going to reiterate my advice that you do activities outside of work and practice forming social relationships. I really believe that a large part of your lack of enjoyment in dating probably stems from a lack of experience in building relationships and meeting new people. Everyone has a story to tell and something special about themselves. Even if they're not people you want to spend a lot of time with, you'll learn more about humanity and yourself by engaging. As introverts this may be intrinsically tiring for people like us, but if you stop viewing small talk with a pejorative lens I think it will be less exhausting (or at least feel more worth investing the energy).
posted by telegraph at 6:54 AM on August 31, 2015 [9 favorites]
There's been a lot written on the Green in the past about learning that small talk is not vacuous, pointless social interaction but actually a very universal way of putting someone at ease and laying the groundwork that can someday be a friendship or relationship. It's part of the social contract. You can't get there (friendships, relationships) from here (lone wolf) without treading some of the ground that you seem to find exhausting and beneath you.
That's why I'm going to reiterate my advice that you do activities outside of work and practice forming social relationships. I really believe that a large part of your lack of enjoyment in dating probably stems from a lack of experience in building relationships and meeting new people. Everyone has a story to tell and something special about themselves. Even if they're not people you want to spend a lot of time with, you'll learn more about humanity and yourself by engaging. As introverts this may be intrinsically tiring for people like us, but if you stop viewing small talk with a pejorative lens I think it will be less exhausting (or at least feel more worth investing the energy).
posted by telegraph at 6:54 AM on August 31, 2015 [9 favorites]
Response by poster: Regarding interests: I enjoy reading nonfiction books and contemplating the meaning of life through philosophy, psychology, and social sciences. I'm an academic at heart, so perhaps I can take classes. I also like shopping, but that doesn't help here.
I'm willing to try new things but I've been trying to make friends all my life, and I just don't fit into any circle. I prefer 1-1 conversations, and typically have 1 off friends(someone I'm not connected to a group but only that one person. These are usually ex boyfriends that have become friends)
posted by ribboncake at 6:58 AM on August 31, 2015
I'm willing to try new things but I've been trying to make friends all my life, and I just don't fit into any circle. I prefer 1-1 conversations, and typically have 1 off friends(someone I'm not connected to a group but only that one person. These are usually ex boyfriends that have become friends)
posted by ribboncake at 6:58 AM on August 31, 2015
Book clubs and classes are great ways to meet new people, and those sound like things that would be right up your alley. It's okay and important to cultivate one-on-one relationships, although I get that there's a cultural narrative that suggests that being part of a group or a "girl posse" is the "right" way to have friends. So you're not Taylor Swift? Big deal.
Honestly, you'll have real trouble finding or maintaining a relationship with a guy who has his stuff together and has good social skills if you have few friends and work all the time, even if you do have active solitary hobbies (ask me how I know!). If you work on forming better platonic relationships, you'll be happier, more fulfilled, and come across as better girlfriend material.
posted by blerghamot at 7:09 AM on August 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
Honestly, you'll have real trouble finding or maintaining a relationship with a guy who has his stuff together and has good social skills if you have few friends and work all the time, even if you do have active solitary hobbies (ask me how I know!). If you work on forming better platonic relationships, you'll be happier, more fulfilled, and come across as better girlfriend material.
posted by blerghamot at 7:09 AM on August 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
Just make sure that you understand as a woman that you won't be attractive BECAUSE you are successful. For women this is, in contrast to men, a mostly irrelevant asset in dating.
This is a tired cliche that's not even true. When I was single and on the prowl along with my bestie, I cannot tell you how many times some random guy would be hitting on me but then switch to her the moment she let it be known that she is an investment banker. Ditto with another friend who was in medical school. Guys are not some magical non-humans who don't care about success like all humans do.
posted by rada at 7:47 AM on August 31, 2015 [8 favorites]
This is a tired cliche that's not even true. When I was single and on the prowl along with my bestie, I cannot tell you how many times some random guy would be hitting on me but then switch to her the moment she let it be known that she is an investment banker. Ditto with another friend who was in medical school. Guys are not some magical non-humans who don't care about success like all humans do.
posted by rada at 7:47 AM on August 31, 2015 [8 favorites]
The reality is that it's a numbers game, it's chance, and you just have to not give up just because you've come across bad matches.
You have to put yourself in situations where you meet more guys and not limit yourself. I would start a hobby you always wanted to do but haven't yet. Karate or something that interests you. You might not meet anyone-- and I don't recommend you pick a hobby just because you want to meet someone-- but you will expand your network, and that's really what it's about.
If you're such a successful go-getter in your job, why are you so against doing what it takes to meet more people? Understand that for places like Portland, it's necessary to get out there more, to get the results you're after. I know people in your age group in that area, and at least 50% of them wouldn't consider online dating.
Also, why are your standards-- by your own definition, so high? What do you mean by having high standards?
If you're trying to find a kind, decent human being who would be a good, faithful partner-- that's not a high standard, it's a very basic standard.
A good rule of thumb is this: If you're discarding people on superficial reasons (looks, academics, work success, height,) you may be holding yourself back from something great. You can't control your attraction and if overweight guys don't do it for you, that's fine, but do examine your prejudices and if you have any that may be holding you back. I'm not saying you do, but there are a lot of internal biases society thrusts upon both men and women, that we aren't always aware of. For example, I had a friend who insisted she wanted to date a guy 'taller than her' at 5'10, not realizing it was severely limiting her dating pool by doing so.
Ultimately some of these things are not important; a lot of them are red herrings, too. Someone successful and ambitious may be great at their job, but it doesn't mean they're necessarily intelligent or a good partner. Likewise, someone who drives a truck, doesn't mean they're not an academic type, or not necessarily healthy.
You should get to know people as people, and try and leave judgments about who they are on paper at the door. The more important thing is that you're attracted to each other, stable, your values line up, and your ideas about the future. I'm not saying force yourself to like someone who is obviously a bore and not a match, but I am saying, if you're ditching often and early for 'high standards' reasons like height or job or such, perhaps give it a rethink.
posted by Dimes at 8:33 AM on August 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
You have to put yourself in situations where you meet more guys and not limit yourself. I would start a hobby you always wanted to do but haven't yet. Karate or something that interests you. You might not meet anyone-- and I don't recommend you pick a hobby just because you want to meet someone-- but you will expand your network, and that's really what it's about.
If you're such a successful go-getter in your job, why are you so against doing what it takes to meet more people? Understand that for places like Portland, it's necessary to get out there more, to get the results you're after. I know people in your age group in that area, and at least 50% of them wouldn't consider online dating.
Also, why are your standards-- by your own definition, so high? What do you mean by having high standards?
If you're trying to find a kind, decent human being who would be a good, faithful partner-- that's not a high standard, it's a very basic standard.
A good rule of thumb is this: If you're discarding people on superficial reasons (looks, academics, work success, height,) you may be holding yourself back from something great. You can't control your attraction and if overweight guys don't do it for you, that's fine, but do examine your prejudices and if you have any that may be holding you back. I'm not saying you do, but there are a lot of internal biases society thrusts upon both men and women, that we aren't always aware of. For example, I had a friend who insisted she wanted to date a guy 'taller than her' at 5'10, not realizing it was severely limiting her dating pool by doing so.
Ultimately some of these things are not important; a lot of them are red herrings, too. Someone successful and ambitious may be great at their job, but it doesn't mean they're necessarily intelligent or a good partner. Likewise, someone who drives a truck, doesn't mean they're not an academic type, or not necessarily healthy.
You should get to know people as people, and try and leave judgments about who they are on paper at the door. The more important thing is that you're attracted to each other, stable, your values line up, and your ideas about the future. I'm not saying force yourself to like someone who is obviously a bore and not a match, but I am saying, if you're ditching often and early for 'high standards' reasons like height or job or such, perhaps give it a rethink.
posted by Dimes at 8:33 AM on August 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
Nthing finding activities you like to do - book clubs, classes, etc., that allow you to build a social circle. Also, learning to interact with small groups of 2-3 people is a lot easier than showing up to say, a large Meetup with 20-30 people and knowing no one.
You don't say much about being approached by men, and putting yourself in situations where multiple people are involved would increase the chances of that happening. If it is already happening, and you are disdainful of the type of man that approaches you, consider this: a few years ago I was single, casually dating, and lamenting the lack of 'suitable' men both in real life and online. I watched men I'd met and didn't date for whatever reason move on and get engaged/ marry women just as pretty and smart and successful as I am (we'd stay friends on Facebook, or whatever).
I dated men who were 'my type', and as it turns out, I was attracted to smart, nerdy assholes with colossal insecurities that loved to put me down to make themselves feel good. Fast forward to now, about three years since I resolved to give up on what my ideal was, and focus on men that valued kindness, generosity, and empathy. My fiance is very attractive, but the polar physical opposite of the man I thought I'd end up with. We didn't share many interests except a love of basketball when we met, but we've introduced each other to mutual interests that've given us so much pleasurable time together. He is, however, the most patient, caring, intuitive, stable man I've been with, and is the perfect foil to my hot-headed, impulsive, emotional nature. Do I wish that certain things about him were different? I sure do. But the thing is that there's always going to be someone who's 'better' in one way or another - you're never going to find someone that ticks all your boxes and then some. I'm happier now than I've ever been, on my way to expecting our first baby, and if you'd told me five years ago that this is the man I'd marry I'd have laughed at you. Point being, give someone a chance beyond what you think is ideal, and they just may surprise you!
posted by Everydayville at 12:25 PM on August 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
You don't say much about being approached by men, and putting yourself in situations where multiple people are involved would increase the chances of that happening. If it is already happening, and you are disdainful of the type of man that approaches you, consider this: a few years ago I was single, casually dating, and lamenting the lack of 'suitable' men both in real life and online. I watched men I'd met and didn't date for whatever reason move on and get engaged/ marry women just as pretty and smart and successful as I am (we'd stay friends on Facebook, or whatever).
I dated men who were 'my type', and as it turns out, I was attracted to smart, nerdy assholes with colossal insecurities that loved to put me down to make themselves feel good. Fast forward to now, about three years since I resolved to give up on what my ideal was, and focus on men that valued kindness, generosity, and empathy. My fiance is very attractive, but the polar physical opposite of the man I thought I'd end up with. We didn't share many interests except a love of basketball when we met, but we've introduced each other to mutual interests that've given us so much pleasurable time together. He is, however, the most patient, caring, intuitive, stable man I've been with, and is the perfect foil to my hot-headed, impulsive, emotional nature. Do I wish that certain things about him were different? I sure do. But the thing is that there's always going to be someone who's 'better' in one way or another - you're never going to find someone that ticks all your boxes and then some. I'm happier now than I've ever been, on my way to expecting our first baby, and if you'd told me five years ago that this is the man I'd marry I'd have laughed at you. Point being, give someone a chance beyond what you think is ideal, and they just may surprise you!
posted by Everydayville at 12:25 PM on August 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
Agree that book clubs and classes would be a great way to meet people. Most of my friends, myself included, met their long term partners in college or university. My friends who are single and dating lament how easy it was to meet guys back then - guys everywhere with similar intellectual interests, and so many opportunities to interact on a more personal basis outside of class (group work, grabbing coffee or lunch between classes, etc.)
If you're active on any online forums or communities, that might be another way to meet people. It's low stakes, it doesn't cost anything, and if you're already active there it won't feel like a massive time suck (the way that browsing dating profiles might feel). I met my ex-boyfriend on a local sport/hobby forum. We already had a major interest in common and I liked who he was online so it was just a matter of seeing if he was a match in real life.
But no matter what the venue or method, it's important to be comfortable with making small talk and nthing giving people a chance to show you who they are. If you are visibly bored and closed off from the outset, people are going to reflect that back to you. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. On the other hand, you may be amazed at how different people can be once you've put them at ease.
Also agree with Dimes about superficial attraction. I don't deny that it can happen. I was initially attracted to my husband based on his looks alone. But I know lots of men who are totally hot in person, though it may not come across well on paper and in photos, or even upon first meeting. It didn't occur to me that they weren't objectively hot until my friend and I were browsing through facebook and showing each other guys we thought were cute. My friend was like, "Really, him?" And I was like, "Yeah, how can you not see it??" Well duh to me, she didn't have the context I had. If I was online dating, I might have passed over all of these guys based on their profile pictures, their heights, their occupations, but it would have been me that was missing out.
Which is why it's great to meet guys in activity groups, because you can spend some time with them, and grow to appreciate things you like about them without the immediate pressure for romantic chemistry.
posted by keep it under cover at 12:27 PM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you're active on any online forums or communities, that might be another way to meet people. It's low stakes, it doesn't cost anything, and if you're already active there it won't feel like a massive time suck (the way that browsing dating profiles might feel). I met my ex-boyfriend on a local sport/hobby forum. We already had a major interest in common and I liked who he was online so it was just a matter of seeing if he was a match in real life.
But no matter what the venue or method, it's important to be comfortable with making small talk and nthing giving people a chance to show you who they are. If you are visibly bored and closed off from the outset, people are going to reflect that back to you. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. On the other hand, you may be amazed at how different people can be once you've put them at ease.
Also agree with Dimes about superficial attraction. I don't deny that it can happen. I was initially attracted to my husband based on his looks alone. But I know lots of men who are totally hot in person, though it may not come across well on paper and in photos, or even upon first meeting. It didn't occur to me that they weren't objectively hot until my friend and I were browsing through facebook and showing each other guys we thought were cute. My friend was like, "Really, him?" And I was like, "Yeah, how can you not see it??" Well duh to me, she didn't have the context I had. If I was online dating, I might have passed over all of these guys based on their profile pictures, their heights, their occupations, but it would have been me that was missing out.
Which is why it's great to meet guys in activity groups, because you can spend some time with them, and grow to appreciate things you like about them without the immediate pressure for romantic chemistry.
posted by keep it under cover at 12:27 PM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
"I enjoy reading nonfiction books and contemplating the meaning of life through philosophy, psychology, and social sciences"
As obliquely mentioned above, go to www.meetup.com and find groups that match your interests. Go to them.
And, again as mentioned above, get used to small talk. A long while back, my mom had a quite important, decently high-ranking job. She was complaining and avoiding computers, though. She hated them and didn't want to learn them. Her then partner, now husband, told her:'Look, your complaining is irrelevant. If you want to keep on doing this job, if you want to be succesful at it, you're going to have to bite the bullet and learn how to use them. If you don't, you can't do your job properly and you will be fired'. He was right. So she learned how to use them well enough, kept her job and pushed her career further.
Same with smalltalk and relationships (just friendly and romantic): it's not a choice, it's a requirement. And the way to get better at smalltalk, just like any other skill, is to practise that skill. Hence the 'going out and meeting people through for example meetup.com'.
Just remember that you might not be the only one. You might meet and fall for someone different than you (which can be great, as you'll have stuff to talk about), but someone more like you might be training his smalltalk too, and you might be mis-interpreting that and discarding someone who is much like you. How would you know? Well, maybe by getting better at smalltalk yourself and discovering it is the societal grease which allows people the oportunity to discover what the other person is like.
To be really honest, you sound pretty interesting to me and were you to live elsewhere, I might have been so bold as to suggest meeting up. But to be even more honest I suspect, even though I think I might be in the range you're looking for (and from what I read, you do sound worth getting to know), you would have written me off way too soon because due to your lack of communication skills and overly-quick judgement you wouldn't have even taken the time to get to know me. Which I would have noticed and would react to by not wanting to be there overly long, creating that awkward, too long date.
The above is of course pure speculation, but I can imagine one or two of your dates could very well have gone like that.
Best of luck, though! And do go out there, meet people and become better at meeting people. I've found the best philosophising is done when your ideas are calibrated against the real world and other people; otherwise it's just mental masturbation.
posted by MacD at 1:41 PM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
As obliquely mentioned above, go to www.meetup.com and find groups that match your interests. Go to them.
And, again as mentioned above, get used to small talk. A long while back, my mom had a quite important, decently high-ranking job. She was complaining and avoiding computers, though. She hated them and didn't want to learn them. Her then partner, now husband, told her:'Look, your complaining is irrelevant. If you want to keep on doing this job, if you want to be succesful at it, you're going to have to bite the bullet and learn how to use them. If you don't, you can't do your job properly and you will be fired'. He was right. So she learned how to use them well enough, kept her job and pushed her career further.
Same with smalltalk and relationships (just friendly and romantic): it's not a choice, it's a requirement. And the way to get better at smalltalk, just like any other skill, is to practise that skill. Hence the 'going out and meeting people through for example meetup.com'.
Just remember that you might not be the only one. You might meet and fall for someone different than you (which can be great, as you'll have stuff to talk about), but someone more like you might be training his smalltalk too, and you might be mis-interpreting that and discarding someone who is much like you. How would you know? Well, maybe by getting better at smalltalk yourself and discovering it is the societal grease which allows people the oportunity to discover what the other person is like.
To be really honest, you sound pretty interesting to me and were you to live elsewhere, I might have been so bold as to suggest meeting up. But to be even more honest I suspect, even though I think I might be in the range you're looking for (and from what I read, you do sound worth getting to know), you would have written me off way too soon because due to your lack of communication skills and overly-quick judgement you wouldn't have even taken the time to get to know me. Which I would have noticed and would react to by not wanting to be there overly long, creating that awkward, too long date.
The above is of course pure speculation, but I can imagine one or two of your dates could very well have gone like that.
Best of luck, though! And do go out there, meet people and become better at meeting people. I've found the best philosophising is done when your ideas are calibrated against the real world and other people; otherwise it's just mental masturbation.
posted by MacD at 1:41 PM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't have a "social circle" - I don't think that most people do in large cities, for the most part. But still - I have a lot of friends. I've met friends through work, through hobbies, through weird random kismet stuff, through Metafilter ... Being a social person doesn't require that you have a clique a la "Friends" or "Seinfeld." I honestly don't think I'm great at making friends, and I'm not particularly social, but still, you know, I get out there.
And when you say that you're mostly friends with your ex-boyfriends - do you have any female friends? If not, do you maybe have some negative thoughts about women that you need to work through?
A relationship - romantic or platonic - require social skills.
Focus on making friends, and then worry about getting a boyfriend. I met my boyfriend through a mutual friend. I met that friend through working with her at a theater company. He met her through work. And so it goes.
And if online dating is bumming you out - just put it on pause. I hate OkCupid.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 3:17 PM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
And when you say that you're mostly friends with your ex-boyfriends - do you have any female friends? If not, do you maybe have some negative thoughts about women that you need to work through?
A relationship - romantic or platonic - require social skills.
Focus on making friends, and then worry about getting a boyfriend. I met my boyfriend through a mutual friend. I met that friend through working with her at a theater company. He met her through work. And so it goes.
And if online dating is bumming you out - just put it on pause. I hate OkCupid.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 3:17 PM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Nthing going to/setting up MeFi Meetups. I went to one 13 months ago, having just sworn off dating, and happened to chat to a lovely mefite for 5 minutes which we both subsequently decided wasn't quite enough. In a year's time, reader, I will be marrying him.
posted by greenish at 3:44 AM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by greenish at 3:44 AM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
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Do you like art museums? Go to a sports bar. Hate the outdoors? Take a rock-climbing class. You're introverted? Try an improv theater.
Sure, it may fail. But you will have lost nothing, you may gain some new types of friends, and they might know somebody...
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 3:39 PM on August 30, 2015 [7 favorites]