The best way to structure a relationship hiatus?
August 29, 2015 10:43 AM Subscribe
I have a relationship that is going phenomenally, 6 months deep. We have the same values, we're excited to support what the other is doing, and we have compatible goals for our future.... but he never got a chance to date as a single person. How to proceed?
This relationship is definitely the most satisfying and consistently supportive dynamic I have ever experienced. Both of us are committed to each other's goals, values, and development... plus we just have a fucking blast whenever we are together.
So what's the problem? He spent his entire life, until 2 years ago, hiding an atheistic worldview from his devoutly religious family and community. The revelation that he not only was atheist, but also intended to find a partner and live outside of their religious community, was devastating to his family and shocked his mother to the point of physical symptoms.
Much like when queer people come out of the closet for the first time, he had intended to have a period of open and free exploration of his new, secular life. Unfortunately, I messaged him about a week after he joined OkCupid, we met a week later, and very quickly lost interest in spending having dates with anyone else.
Now its 6 months later, we're talking about the possibility of family some day, he's helping me host parties for my coworkers, I'm trying to learn Urdu to make the prospect of eventually meeting his mother easier... and he feels deeply conflicted about never having had a chance to know 'what's out there.'
I want him to have as rich and deep a life experience as possible - but also, as someone who has been in a few different relationships, I recognize that our dynamic is very special, and am nervous about things that complicate it. He doesn't feel like an open relationship would work for him, since he wants the 'single' experience. I want to make sure that I am doing what's right by me, but not to the point where I make reconciliation improbable.
What have other people tried in these kinds of situations? Hiatus with contact? Hiatus with no contact? Full Rumspringa? Boundaries or no boundaries? Personal routines and habits in place to remind ourselves of that person out there that we love? All ideas and anecdotes welcome.
This relationship is definitely the most satisfying and consistently supportive dynamic I have ever experienced. Both of us are committed to each other's goals, values, and development... plus we just have a fucking blast whenever we are together.
So what's the problem? He spent his entire life, until 2 years ago, hiding an atheistic worldview from his devoutly religious family and community. The revelation that he not only was atheist, but also intended to find a partner and live outside of their religious community, was devastating to his family and shocked his mother to the point of physical symptoms.
Much like when queer people come out of the closet for the first time, he had intended to have a period of open and free exploration of his new, secular life. Unfortunately, I messaged him about a week after he joined OkCupid, we met a week later, and very quickly lost interest in spending having dates with anyone else.
Now its 6 months later, we're talking about the possibility of family some day, he's helping me host parties for my coworkers, I'm trying to learn Urdu to make the prospect of eventually meeting his mother easier... and he feels deeply conflicted about never having had a chance to know 'what's out there.'
I want him to have as rich and deep a life experience as possible - but also, as someone who has been in a few different relationships, I recognize that our dynamic is very special, and am nervous about things that complicate it. He doesn't feel like an open relationship would work for him, since he wants the 'single' experience. I want to make sure that I am doing what's right by me, but not to the point where I make reconciliation improbable.
What have other people tried in these kinds of situations? Hiatus with contact? Hiatus with no contact? Full Rumspringa? Boundaries or no boundaries? Personal routines and habits in place to remind ourselves of that person out there that we love? All ideas and anecdotes welcome.
This American Life had a story that you might want to listen to, about a couple who were very happy, but had met young and hadn't really gotten the chance to date anyone else. They made a specific choice about how to deal with it, and this story is told from far enough afterwards that they're able to look back and assess what happened. It's Act One, "Best Laid Plans"
posted by BlahLaLa at 11:14 AM on August 29, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by BlahLaLa at 11:14 AM on August 29, 2015 [13 favorites]
but he never got a chance to date as a single person
Ugh, you know SO FUCKING WHAT. Not everyone wants that, or even agrees that it's an okay thing to want. (I don't, and I'm in my forties and hardcore atheist.) A more appropriate reaction would be "thank God I met you immediately and didn't have to go through hurting and abandoning people and/or being hurt and abandoned myself." PLENTY of people stay with their first love for a lifetime and don't feel like they're missing anything (because really, what good thing are you missing?).
Also, this ought to be obvious but apparently it isn't: every choice you make means you experience that and don't experience something else. Being with just one person for a lifetime IS AN EXPERIENCE that people who have had multiple relationships DON'T GET TO HAVE.
posted by Violet Hour at 11:30 AM on August 29, 2015 [86 favorites]
Ugh, you know SO FUCKING WHAT. Not everyone wants that, or even agrees that it's an okay thing to want. (I don't, and I'm in my forties and hardcore atheist.) A more appropriate reaction would be "thank God I met you immediately and didn't have to go through hurting and abandoning people and/or being hurt and abandoned myself." PLENTY of people stay with their first love for a lifetime and don't feel like they're missing anything (because really, what good thing are you missing?).
Also, this ought to be obvious but apparently it isn't: every choice you make means you experience that and don't experience something else. Being with just one person for a lifetime IS AN EXPERIENCE that people who have had multiple relationships DON'T GET TO HAVE.
posted by Violet Hour at 11:30 AM on August 29, 2015 [86 favorites]
Ugh, you know SO FUCKING WHAT
I have to agree...if things are great, then what's the need to date more people? I think he's being foolish, honestly. I'm worried that you're going to end up with a broken heart, because he doesn't seem to feel the same way you do. Isn't the point of "exploring" ultimately to see if there's something better out there? If not, then maybe you could pick a set period of time (three months? whatever feels right to you) and go no contact, unless you want to torture yourself with hearing about his other dates. And then come back together if that's still in the cards.
posted by three_red_balloons at 11:40 AM on August 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
I have to agree...if things are great, then what's the need to date more people? I think he's being foolish, honestly. I'm worried that you're going to end up with a broken heart, because he doesn't seem to feel the same way you do. Isn't the point of "exploring" ultimately to see if there's something better out there? If not, then maybe you could pick a set period of time (three months? whatever feels right to you) and go no contact, unless you want to torture yourself with hearing about his other dates. And then come back together if that's still in the cards.
posted by three_red_balloons at 11:40 AM on August 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
Trying to impose rules on a hiatus sounds problematic. Gotta let him go do his thing and check back with him later. Yes, that means risking never being with him, but that's the whole point here, you know? He sounds really young and naive, which is fine, but him wanting this is fundamentally incompatible with you two being together and happy.
The best thing to do is to give him he wants and move on. Go no contact for a while, then check in with each other, say in six months. What happens from there is up to both of you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:49 AM on August 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
The best thing to do is to give him he wants and move on. Go no contact for a while, then check in with each other, say in six months. What happens from there is up to both of you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:49 AM on August 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
To elaborate, this is kind of like saying "Oh, poor me, I got this terrific well-paying job in my field that I love straight out of school, but I want to quit it so I can experience being a starving student trying to hold down two minimum-wage jobs while living in a box with five roommates and eating ramen."
posted by Violet Hour at 11:49 AM on August 29, 2015 [103 favorites]
posted by Violet Hour at 11:49 AM on August 29, 2015 [103 favorites]
Speaking as a single person, the single/dating life is WAY overrated. If I had met someone right away and got along as splendidly as you describe, I'd be thanking my lucky stars that I don't have to deal with all the crap that comes with dating anymore. It seems like either two things are going on: 1) He is really enjoying his time with you, but has been so restricted by his religious upbringing that he can't let go of the idea that maybe dating around is an important part of his development as an individual/figuring out what he wants (which is fair, everyone has to learn their own way) or 2) He likes you, but he's not on the same page as you or as invested as you. Otherwise why would he go looking for something else?
So he doesn't feel quite the same way about you as you do about him, or he's not experienced enough to recognize what a good thing he has going here. Either way, it sounds like if you guys decide to take a break, it's best if it's just real breakup. Don't frame it as a dating hiatus, even if you do plan on reconnecting later. Break up, maybe say "let's touch base in 3-6 months (with NO expectation)", and then no contact until then. Maybe he'll recognize how great you guys had it and come running back before that time is even up. Maybe he won't. But if you guys choose a break(up) and you don't truly let it go, I'm afraid you'll end up hurt and disappointed in the end.
posted by sprezzy at 11:51 AM on August 29, 2015 [6 favorites]
So he doesn't feel quite the same way about you as you do about him, or he's not experienced enough to recognize what a good thing he has going here. Either way, it sounds like if you guys decide to take a break, it's best if it's just real breakup. Don't frame it as a dating hiatus, even if you do plan on reconnecting later. Break up, maybe say "let's touch base in 3-6 months (with NO expectation)", and then no contact until then. Maybe he'll recognize how great you guys had it and come running back before that time is even up. Maybe he won't. But if you guys choose a break(up) and you don't truly let it go, I'm afraid you'll end up hurt and disappointed in the end.
posted by sprezzy at 11:51 AM on August 29, 2015 [6 favorites]
Best answer: This is not the same as him deciding he didn't travel enough, or do enough independent things, or take enough classes, and he's going to go off and do them. For most people, dating is for one (or both) of two things -- having fun, lighthearted experiences (and yes, usually sex) or having such experiences for the purposes of finding a (hopefully) permanent mate. The people dating one another really, really need to know which purpose their hand-holding/party-hosting/naughtybits-snuggling partner has, because not being on the same page is how people's lives get ruined.
My life experience tells me: you're either you're IN or you're OUT, and the idea of going out and experimenting and then coming back yields all sorts of problems. Things to consider:
1) Saying, basically, "I love everything we have, but I feel like I didn't get to experience the single stuff first" would say to me, "This is great, but I'm not sure there's not someone better out there." That would be enough for me to say, "Really? You saying that is enough for me to help you make the decision -- if you're not absolutely 100% into me after discussing having a family with me, then you need to go. Pronto!" because those are the things that lead a person on. See above about lives getting ruined.
On the one hand, it's great that he's making this complaint/concern known now, and not after you have two kids. If you want to give him credit for that, and it seems like you do, then fine. But only you know how to take care of you, and it doesn't sound like you're doing that nearly enough.
2) Make sure he understands that if he's going to go out and date other people, then it's with the assumption that you will also be dating other people. And that if he's willing to give up your current relationship, it's with the understanding that you are ready, willing and prepared to find someone else to fall in love with, plan parties with and plan a lifetime with. And do that. Because you'll be broken up, and he'll be part of your past.
3) You can't keep him with you; and you can't set any boundaries except the ones that protect you. (Like he can't sleep with other people and then sleep with you without getting tested, for example. Like he can't boohoo to you when someone breaks his heart.)
You can only decide whether or not you'll let him back in your life. Both of you have to be prepared regarding whether the questions about what you each did (romantically, sexually, etc.) when you were broken up (there is no hiatus) may gnaw and fester and ultimately ruin you if you get back together.
4) Whether you go contact or no-contact depends on the strength of your heart to see him happy (or him to see you happy) with other people, but I'm almost half a century on this planet and I've never seen anyone truly, honestly, 100% happy to see someone they are still in love with being over-the-moon in love with someone else. If you're truly in love with him, you may be in some kind of agony if you go no-contact, but staying in contact will probably hurt more.
5) Recognize this for what it is: a break-up. Don't expect to get back together. Don't wait for him, hoping he'll realize what you have is great. If it takes leaving for him to realize it, he may not be the kind of person who is worth a lifetime of devotion.
Summary: You have to let him go, but you don't have to be happy about it, and you do have to protect yourself. I believe anyone who is not "hell, yeah!" about you is not good enough for you if you're wanting to build a coupled life (and especially if you want to build a couple life with THEM).
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 11:58 AM on August 29, 2015 [57 favorites]
My life experience tells me: you're either you're IN or you're OUT, and the idea of going out and experimenting and then coming back yields all sorts of problems. Things to consider:
1) Saying, basically, "I love everything we have, but I feel like I didn't get to experience the single stuff first" would say to me, "This is great, but I'm not sure there's not someone better out there." That would be enough for me to say, "Really? You saying that is enough for me to help you make the decision -- if you're not absolutely 100% into me after discussing having a family with me, then you need to go. Pronto!" because those are the things that lead a person on. See above about lives getting ruined.
On the one hand, it's great that he's making this complaint/concern known now, and not after you have two kids. If you want to give him credit for that, and it seems like you do, then fine. But only you know how to take care of you, and it doesn't sound like you're doing that nearly enough.
2) Make sure he understands that if he's going to go out and date other people, then it's with the assumption that you will also be dating other people. And that if he's willing to give up your current relationship, it's with the understanding that you are ready, willing and prepared to find someone else to fall in love with, plan parties with and plan a lifetime with. And do that. Because you'll be broken up, and he'll be part of your past.
3) You can't keep him with you; and you can't set any boundaries except the ones that protect you. (Like he can't sleep with other people and then sleep with you without getting tested, for example. Like he can't boohoo to you when someone breaks his heart.)
You can only decide whether or not you'll let him back in your life. Both of you have to be prepared regarding whether the questions about what you each did (romantically, sexually, etc.) when you were broken up (there is no hiatus) may gnaw and fester and ultimately ruin you if you get back together.
4) Whether you go contact or no-contact depends on the strength of your heart to see him happy (or him to see you happy) with other people, but I'm almost half a century on this planet and I've never seen anyone truly, honestly, 100% happy to see someone they are still in love with being over-the-moon in love with someone else. If you're truly in love with him, you may be in some kind of agony if you go no-contact, but staying in contact will probably hurt more.
5) Recognize this for what it is: a break-up. Don't expect to get back together. Don't wait for him, hoping he'll realize what you have is great. If it takes leaving for him to realize it, he may not be the kind of person who is worth a lifetime of devotion.
Summary: You have to let him go, but you don't have to be happy about it, and you do have to protect yourself. I believe anyone who is not "hell, yeah!" about you is not good enough for you if you're wanting to build a coupled life (and especially if you want to build a couple life with THEM).
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 11:58 AM on August 29, 2015 [57 favorites]
The way you are wording this makes me worried about you and YOUR voice and say in this relationship. Is this really something you want, or are you trying to want it for him? I'd do a serious gut check on this before even considering it.
posted by mynameisluka at 11:58 AM on August 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by mynameisluka at 11:58 AM on August 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
It's okay to not be okay with this. He doesn't want to be with you right now. That's a hurtful thing.
This is a breakup. Don't put an asterisk on it. Cut off contact. Life is too short to be around people who don't want to be with you.
I mean, this is basically a "You're okay...but I think I can do better...". Take care of yourself.
posted by inturnaround at 11:59 AM on August 29, 2015 [18 favorites]
This is a breakup. Don't put an asterisk on it. Cut off contact. Life is too short to be around people who don't want to be with you.
I mean, this is basically a "You're okay...but I think I can do better...". Take care of yourself.
posted by inturnaround at 11:59 AM on August 29, 2015 [18 favorites]
You seem pretty level headed about this, like you understand that you can't make him stay. If I wanted to give you the worst possible advice, I would tell you to quick get pregnant, buy a shotgun and force him to marry you. Clearly that would not be a path that would bring you both happiness.
He and his dick want to wander. It's up to you whether you want to wait around in the hopes that he will come back or whether you want to distract yourself with good works or sexual adventures of your own.
I can't tell you what path to take, but you could illustrate some branching diagrams. There's almost a series of questions and a flowchart. I want to see if it is possible to set this up so that you don't get hurt (much).
Should you go "no contact" while he is experimenting? If he has trouble finding hook-ups should he share his frustrations with you? Should you coach him? Should you accept booty calls? Does he want to let go of monogamy for a fixed length of time (6 months? Twelve?) or until he hits a certain number of notches in his bedpost? Does he have a bucket list? If he decides to extend the wild rumpus period, will you continue to wait? What if he gets bored with casual flings earlier than scheduled -- should you rearrange your plans?
I would probably conceive of the hiatus as "rumpspringa". (Although the temptation to make H.I.A.T.U.S. into a bizarrely contrived acronym would be fun.)
posted by puddledork at 12:03 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
He and his dick want to wander. It's up to you whether you want to wait around in the hopes that he will come back or whether you want to distract yourself with good works or sexual adventures of your own.
I can't tell you what path to take, but you could illustrate some branching diagrams. There's almost a series of questions and a flowchart. I want to see if it is possible to set this up so that you don't get hurt (much).
Should you go "no contact" while he is experimenting? If he has trouble finding hook-ups should he share his frustrations with you? Should you coach him? Should you accept booty calls? Does he want to let go of monogamy for a fixed length of time (6 months? Twelve?) or until he hits a certain number of notches in his bedpost? Does he have a bucket list? If he decides to extend the wild rumpus period, will you continue to wait? What if he gets bored with casual flings earlier than scheduled -- should you rearrange your plans?
I would probably conceive of the hiatus as "rumpspringa". (Although the temptation to make H.I.A.T.U.S. into a bizarrely contrived acronym would be fun.)
posted by puddledork at 12:03 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I agree with Violet Hour. If this relationship really was so great to him, then why would he leave it?
Also, let's say you do part ways for a bit. How are you supposed to be sure he "got it all out of his system" so to speak. It seems like he's the type to always think the grass is greener somewhere else or that he'll always regret the things he didn't do yet.
Also, I don't understand why he hasn't lived the "single life" until now? Like, he's an adult, right? So he could have dated whoever he wanted, regardless of if his parents would have approved. Why NOW does he need to run around "single"? (And if I'm reading this correctly, he had 1.5 years between telling his family and meeting you already. You don't need OKcupid to date.)
It seems he's very much in a transitional part of his life and hasn't figured out what he wants. Especially seeing as he wasn't willing to do what he wanted on his own as an adult prior to filling in his family about his life. Let him go. Live your own life.
posted by Crystalinne at 12:26 PM on August 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also, let's say you do part ways for a bit. How are you supposed to be sure he "got it all out of his system" so to speak. It seems like he's the type to always think the grass is greener somewhere else or that he'll always regret the things he didn't do yet.
Also, I don't understand why he hasn't lived the "single life" until now? Like, he's an adult, right? So he could have dated whoever he wanted, regardless of if his parents would have approved. Why NOW does he need to run around "single"? (And if I'm reading this correctly, he had 1.5 years between telling his family and meeting you already. You don't need OKcupid to date.)
It seems he's very much in a transitional part of his life and hasn't figured out what he wants. Especially seeing as he wasn't willing to do what he wanted on his own as an adult prior to filling in his family about his life. Let him go. Live your own life.
posted by Crystalinne at 12:26 PM on August 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Be careful not to take responsibility for most of this -- not for his feeling that he's missed something, and not for figuring ways for him to get clear about it. The conflict is his, and your greatest contribution will be to encourage him to do what is right for him, and also to be honest about how you feel and what you need. In your position I'd super nervous and also super uncomfortable about having no control.
Right now, at six months, it's too soon to know if you're ready to commit to him for the long term. But when you do feel ready, the issue will become really important. It's best if he doesn't put off facing it and dealing with it, though there could be a temptation for him to do that because your relationship is so great in so many ways.
Don't put up with or agree to anything that's not right for you. Nobody can predict what that might be or if it's even going to happen. But, examples: if he wants to "become single" for a while and you're not okay with that; or you agree to let him go for a while, you can listen to your heart if you don't feel good about taking him back . Or if times goes by and he still doesn't feel like he can commit. Or if his confusion and conflict end up becoming a reason/excuse for him not to treat you as he himself would want to be treated.
I was my husband's first real girlfriend; he says he just never thought a woman could be interested in him. We've been married a long time now, and he still thinks it's too bad he never had more romantic/sexual experiences when he was single. But at a certain point wanted to and was able to truly commit to our partnership, so he felt sure that our marrying was right for him, and he still feels that way. He never brought it up with me early on, but I know that if he had I'd have found all the good advice much "easier said than done." Please don't let yourself think that your guy necessarily HAS TO go and make up for lost time. Be generous and kind and let him decide what he wants to do -- and meanwhile, advocate for yourself and look out for yourself.
posted by wryly at 12:27 PM on August 29, 2015 [7 favorites]
Right now, at six months, it's too soon to know if you're ready to commit to him for the long term. But when you do feel ready, the issue will become really important. It's best if he doesn't put off facing it and dealing with it, though there could be a temptation for him to do that because your relationship is so great in so many ways.
Don't put up with or agree to anything that's not right for you. Nobody can predict what that might be or if it's even going to happen. But, examples: if he wants to "become single" for a while and you're not okay with that; or you agree to let him go for a while, you can listen to your heart if you don't feel good about taking him back . Or if times goes by and he still doesn't feel like he can commit. Or if his confusion and conflict end up becoming a reason/excuse for him not to treat you as he himself would want to be treated.
I was my husband's first real girlfriend; he says he just never thought a woman could be interested in him. We've been married a long time now, and he still thinks it's too bad he never had more romantic/sexual experiences when he was single. But at a certain point wanted to and was able to truly commit to our partnership, so he felt sure that our marrying was right for him, and he still feels that way. He never brought it up with me early on, but I know that if he had I'd have found all the good advice much "easier said than done." Please don't let yourself think that your guy necessarily HAS TO go and make up for lost time. Be generous and kind and let him decide what he wants to do -- and meanwhile, advocate for yourself and look out for yourself.
posted by wryly at 12:27 PM on August 29, 2015 [7 favorites]
I vote that you break up with him, go no contact, get back on OK Cupid and continue dating.
He wants to see if there is someone better than you so don't stand in his way.
Seriously, move on.
If he eventually realizes that he's made a mistake, then at that point you can decide if he's worth your time or not.
posted by Snazzy67 at 1:03 PM on August 29, 2015 [7 favorites]
He wants to see if there is someone better than you so don't stand in his way.
Seriously, move on.
If he eventually realizes that he's made a mistake, then at that point you can decide if he's worth your time or not.
posted by Snazzy67 at 1:03 PM on August 29, 2015 [7 favorites]
I second listening to that TAL story with Kurt Braunohler.
Everyone knows someone who survived a "hiatus". It does work out sometimes, at least for a while. I don't know anybody who, in retrospect, thinks it was actually a good idea and should have been handled that way - except for one person who spent their hiatus in rehab and then a year living with a relative while he got his shit together, and that really does appear to have been the right choice. But he did not date or have sex in that time for recovery reasons, and also they were actually broken up, they just got back together once he'd gotten stable. It was a hiatus after the fact.
Taking a break is, under less high-stakes circumstances, volunteering for permanent damage in the relationship. It is choosing to grow apart. It is knowing every day that they disrupted everything that was supposedly great to fuck other people. Not to pursue an educational or career opportunity, not to serve their country, not to help their family or for the greater good, just to get some strange.
I don't believe that someone who truly loves and cares for you and wants to be with you would even want to make that choice. Life is about making choices, and we give up future opportunities all the time in order to do something else. If his intention was commitment, his desire would be commitment and coming to terms with not having sown his oats.
If he decides that his first real relationship out of the gate in his "real life" isn't his long-haul relationship - which...statistically? Your chances were never great - that is certainly a reasonable conclusion to come to, but call it what it is: a breakup. For either one of you to assume that you can or should wait for him to come back is bullshit on his part and dangerous on yours, just unhealthy.
I know couples with little to no experience outside the relationship who live very peacefully with it. As one of my friends put it, "I have never been treated like a smear of dogshit by a man I thought I loved or needed the approval of, and I'm surprisingly okay with missing out on that experience."
The hiatus, like the open relationship, is a thing a lot of people tell other people about (so the other people will have sex with them) but is about as successful as panda breeding programs.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:21 PM on August 29, 2015 [25 favorites]
Everyone knows someone who survived a "hiatus". It does work out sometimes, at least for a while. I don't know anybody who, in retrospect, thinks it was actually a good idea and should have been handled that way - except for one person who spent their hiatus in rehab and then a year living with a relative while he got his shit together, and that really does appear to have been the right choice. But he did not date or have sex in that time for recovery reasons, and also they were actually broken up, they just got back together once he'd gotten stable. It was a hiatus after the fact.
Taking a break is, under less high-stakes circumstances, volunteering for permanent damage in the relationship. It is choosing to grow apart. It is knowing every day that they disrupted everything that was supposedly great to fuck other people. Not to pursue an educational or career opportunity, not to serve their country, not to help their family or for the greater good, just to get some strange.
I don't believe that someone who truly loves and cares for you and wants to be with you would even want to make that choice. Life is about making choices, and we give up future opportunities all the time in order to do something else. If his intention was commitment, his desire would be commitment and coming to terms with not having sown his oats.
If he decides that his first real relationship out of the gate in his "real life" isn't his long-haul relationship - which...statistically? Your chances were never great - that is certainly a reasonable conclusion to come to, but call it what it is: a breakup. For either one of you to assume that you can or should wait for him to come back is bullshit on his part and dangerous on yours, just unhealthy.
I know couples with little to no experience outside the relationship who live very peacefully with it. As one of my friends put it, "I have never been treated like a smear of dogshit by a man I thought I loved or needed the approval of, and I'm surprisingly okay with missing out on that experience."
The hiatus, like the open relationship, is a thing a lot of people tell other people about (so the other people will have sex with them) but is about as successful as panda breeding programs.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:21 PM on August 29, 2015 [25 favorites]
Best answer: Oh Lord. Well, I have done this twice (not this exact thing, but broken up with someone and then gotten back together). Once, what we had was irrevocably lost. Once, we got back together and built something stronger than before. The difference was around the person I was with, because in both cases I was more or less able to reclaim my feelings, but then, I had to been the one to leave. What this might suggest is that a lot is going to be up to you. Or perhaps not exactly "up to you," as our feelings are often outside of our control. But consider how you might feel and what you need so that you can stay comfortable and not lose the feelings you have or have them over shadowed by other feelings like hurt. The nature of our love / relationship might've also been a factor in what worked vs. what didn't because the one that couldn't be reclaimed was a hot initial spark, while the other was a slow-growing but deep affection and connection.
Especially given your head-over-heels description, but also in general, I believe you are probably rolling the dice if you try this. If there is any way to avoid this I would try that first. For example, could you guys play act a series of first dates or more-than-first dates? Sometimes the fantasy is about 1000 times better than the reality will be, and so if he could act out the fantasy with someone whom he already knows is awesome, that might actually be far more satisfying. Another option I wonder is whether he has friends who can tell him how much dating life can suck.
One last thought about protecting yourself: I would give this a very clear time frame. I don't know what that is. But, and this might just be me, I cannot imagine the extra anxiety / tension / constant wondering that I would feel if I had no idea how long it would be until I heard from him again. Best of luck, & I hope you guys can preserve what sounds like a really neat and dynamic connection.
Also, having now read the comments, I really would try NOT to take this as a referendum on you. It need not be. It could be, but people make decisions differently. Some people can say, I want this ice cream, and others want to taste six kinds first. Personalizing this is a fast route to feeling more hurt than you need to here.
posted by salvia at 1:35 PM on August 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
Especially given your head-over-heels description, but also in general, I believe you are probably rolling the dice if you try this. If there is any way to avoid this I would try that first. For example, could you guys play act a series of first dates or more-than-first dates? Sometimes the fantasy is about 1000 times better than the reality will be, and so if he could act out the fantasy with someone whom he already knows is awesome, that might actually be far more satisfying. Another option I wonder is whether he has friends who can tell him how much dating life can suck.
One last thought about protecting yourself: I would give this a very clear time frame. I don't know what that is. But, and this might just be me, I cannot imagine the extra anxiety / tension / constant wondering that I would feel if I had no idea how long it would be until I heard from him again. Best of luck, & I hope you guys can preserve what sounds like a really neat and dynamic connection.
Also, having now read the comments, I really would try NOT to take this as a referendum on you. It need not be. It could be, but people make decisions differently. Some people can say, I want this ice cream, and others want to taste six kinds first. Personalizing this is a fast route to feeling more hurt than you need to here.
posted by salvia at 1:35 PM on August 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
I suspect this is really "I regret not having had sex with a bunch of women I don't know very well." That experience can be fun but it's very rare that it's "rich" or "deep." And I am really hesitant to make myself out to be an asshole here, but if your partner is a South Asian man looking to date/bang/whatever non-SA woman, it's also statistically unlikely.
TLDR: Cop the fuck on or fuck the fuck off.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:14 PM on August 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
TLDR: Cop the fuck on or fuck the fuck off.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:14 PM on August 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah, here's how this should go:
You think about it, hard, and realize his story doesn't quite add up and that you are worth more than this. You break up with him. You do it gracefully, you give him the whole spiel, and you hold your head high, firm in your resolution and calm.
You cry a lot. You mope a lot. You try not to check his Facebook too much. you remind yourself that marriage, with his family being estranged, would have been difficult and imperfect anyway. You take up a new hobby, get a haircut. Maybe go on dates with a few guys you don't click with.
Four months later, you finally have a pretty good first date. You're pretty excited. You're smiling at work. And then you get a text.
"Hey. It's Ex. How are things? I read that book you said to read. You're right, it was really good."
You look at it and feel a whirl of conflicting emotions. Finally, you respond. He talks you into meeting up. You don't mention the second date with the nice promising guy you have lined up for this weekend. He's sad, lonely. He hasn't been banging many ladies left and right. Just hasn't worked out. Or it has, but it feels empty. You listen to his story. You're really tempted to pity him, get back together. All you ever wanted!
Then you get a text from second date guy. And it's just the sweetest, most respectful, hopeful, nice text. It's kind, it's funny, it's all that and a bag of chips.
You look at Ex over the table. It all seems so clear now. You say, "I'm really sorry, but I just can't do this." You wish him the best of luck.
You keep smiling at work. The second date goes great.
The end.
posted by quincunx at 2:50 PM on August 29, 2015 [26 favorites]
You think about it, hard, and realize his story doesn't quite add up and that you are worth more than this. You break up with him. You do it gracefully, you give him the whole spiel, and you hold your head high, firm in your resolution and calm.
You cry a lot. You mope a lot. You try not to check his Facebook too much. you remind yourself that marriage, with his family being estranged, would have been difficult and imperfect anyway. You take up a new hobby, get a haircut. Maybe go on dates with a few guys you don't click with.
Four months later, you finally have a pretty good first date. You're pretty excited. You're smiling at work. And then you get a text.
"Hey. It's Ex. How are things? I read that book you said to read. You're right, it was really good."
You look at it and feel a whirl of conflicting emotions. Finally, you respond. He talks you into meeting up. You don't mention the second date with the nice promising guy you have lined up for this weekend. He's sad, lonely. He hasn't been banging many ladies left and right. Just hasn't worked out. Or it has, but it feels empty. You listen to his story. You're really tempted to pity him, get back together. All you ever wanted!
Then you get a text from second date guy. And it's just the sweetest, most respectful, hopeful, nice text. It's kind, it's funny, it's all that and a bag of chips.
You look at Ex over the table. It all seems so clear now. You say, "I'm really sorry, but I just can't do this." You wish him the best of luck.
You keep smiling at work. The second date goes great.
The end.
posted by quincunx at 2:50 PM on August 29, 2015 [26 favorites]
Best answer: I think it is probably better to do a complete no-contact break than to have any kind of "hiatus with conditions." That just sounds like you'll be setting yourself up for heartbreak.
Having said that, I do want to add that I think it is entirely possible he does feel as strongly for you as you for him, but at the same time feel like he missed out on the dating life. I don't think him wanting to experience singlehood necessarily means this relationship isn't "enough" for him or he thinks he will do better. If he thought he could do better, it would be a lot easier for him to break this off and go wonder. He's conflicted because his wants contradict one another.
Experiences help us grow as a person, even negative ones. Not saying I enjoyed having my heart broken or being treated like dirt, but all those experiences helped me grow and I'm a better person for it in the end. You don't necessarily seek out the experience of being treated like dirt, but I think subconsciously, we all know that obstacles help us grow.
You know all this already, but he's not there yet. It's no one's fault really, you're just at different points in your lives. He needs to decide what's more important to him, but he doesn't get to have you "on-hold".
posted by monologish at 3:30 PM on August 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
Having said that, I do want to add that I think it is entirely possible he does feel as strongly for you as you for him, but at the same time feel like he missed out on the dating life. I don't think him wanting to experience singlehood necessarily means this relationship isn't "enough" for him or he thinks he will do better. If he thought he could do better, it would be a lot easier for him to break this off and go wonder. He's conflicted because his wants contradict one another.
Experiences help us grow as a person, even negative ones. Not saying I enjoyed having my heart broken or being treated like dirt, but all those experiences helped me grow and I'm a better person for it in the end. You don't necessarily seek out the experience of being treated like dirt, but I think subconsciously, we all know that obstacles help us grow.
You know all this already, but he's not there yet. It's no one's fault really, you're just at different points in your lives. He needs to decide what's more important to him, but he doesn't get to have you "on-hold".
posted by monologish at 3:30 PM on August 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
The bottom line is that he wants to give up a sure good thing to get some strange. Which means he is just not that into you. Treat it as a formal breakup (no waiting for him and no "break" crap), go no contact, move on. Sorry.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:38 PM on August 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:38 PM on August 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
How old are you guys? I re-skimmed the entire question looking for this. This is, including the newfound atheist description, classic early-mid-20s bullshit that my friends and i joking call a "quarter life crisis". Most of the people i know who get in to a Serious Great Relationship have had some kind of meltdown with this, doubly so for the ones who had little or no prior dating experience.
I second, as someone who's had a relationship with essentially a post-facto hiatus, to just go "you want to be single? ok, go be single" and break up with him.
If, in six months or whatever, he hits you up going "hey what up how have you been wanna grab a drink/some coffee?" evaluate it as if he dumped you and now wants to get back together. Because what he's essentially saying here, is that he wants to break up with you but doesn't want to feel like he lifted the whole load or it was entirely a him thing. Like, that if you break up, it's because you didn't want to agree with this plan, not because he wanted to be single.
I had a hard time accepting some of the responses above about this being a really selfish not-caring thing, because it made me reflect hard on my past experiences, but... yea. He's basically saying he's bored with the relationship whether he'll admit it or not, and that he wants you as a backup plan so that if this whole single and going on silly dates and getting laid just to test the waters plan doesn't work out you're still right there.
This honestly reminds me a lot of dudes who want open relationships, but then get mad when their partner gets way more propositions and/or action than they do and want to shut it down.
How would he feel if you wanted to date other people too during this(regardless of whether or not you actually want to, that's not the point). If he reacts negatively at all to that he's full of shit and this is the classic "i want a private girlfriend but i want to be able to bone and get attention from whoever i want" annoying guy bullshit.
Evaluate this as you would an open relationship request, but realize that he wants a one sided deal here. Even if you don't want your side of it, do you see how possessive and gross that is?
I realize the beginning and end of my post seem a bit at odds, but what i'm saying is that he doesn't to see this as him pulling back but as a group thing and that he wants to put you on the back burner but be able to slide you back up to the front if he even feels like it. This is doubly immature, selfish, and shitty.
posted by emptythought at 3:42 PM on August 29, 2015 [10 favorites]
I second, as someone who's had a relationship with essentially a post-facto hiatus, to just go "you want to be single? ok, go be single" and break up with him.
If, in six months or whatever, he hits you up going "hey what up how have you been wanna grab a drink/some coffee?" evaluate it as if he dumped you and now wants to get back together. Because what he's essentially saying here, is that he wants to break up with you but doesn't want to feel like he lifted the whole load or it was entirely a him thing. Like, that if you break up, it's because you didn't want to agree with this plan, not because he wanted to be single.
I had a hard time accepting some of the responses above about this being a really selfish not-caring thing, because it made me reflect hard on my past experiences, but... yea. He's basically saying he's bored with the relationship whether he'll admit it or not, and that he wants you as a backup plan so that if this whole single and going on silly dates and getting laid just to test the waters plan doesn't work out you're still right there.
This honestly reminds me a lot of dudes who want open relationships, but then get mad when their partner gets way more propositions and/or action than they do and want to shut it down.
How would he feel if you wanted to date other people too during this(regardless of whether or not you actually want to, that's not the point). If he reacts negatively at all to that he's full of shit and this is the classic "i want a private girlfriend but i want to be able to bone and get attention from whoever i want" annoying guy bullshit.
Evaluate this as you would an open relationship request, but realize that he wants a one sided deal here. Even if you don't want your side of it, do you see how possessive and gross that is?
I realize the beginning and end of my post seem a bit at odds, but what i'm saying is that he doesn't to see this as him pulling back but as a group thing and that he wants to put you on the back burner but be able to slide you back up to the front if he even feels like it. This is doubly immature, selfish, and shitty.
posted by emptythought at 3:42 PM on August 29, 2015 [10 favorites]
I did not have many lovers before I got married. I think that was a mistake for a variety of reasons. That your beau wants to experience the so-called single life before he settles down with you doesn't seem to me to be a personal slight on you necessarily, or to mean that he's an awful person or even that he's bored. I bet he wants to have more sexual experiences. And I think he's being brave to be honest about this. As a sex-positive, sex-loving gal, I can totally understand his desire and respect that. I also agree with other posters that the two of you are, unfortunately, in different phases of your life. You are ready to settle down. He's just not. And it doesn't even matter why he's not. I'd stop sleeping with the guy and go about my life and simply see what happens. True story: My partner contacted me on OKC 6 months before we met. After he found out I was being celibate for awhile, he wrote that he didn't want to date someone who wasn't actually available for sex. Then he got back in touch with me after my celibacy fling and it turned out we were a great match in a variety of ways. Timing is everything. The one thing I know for sure is that there are many people in the world who can make you laugh and with whom you can have a wonderful time. That he is one of them is fabulous, but he is absolutely not the only one.
posted by Bella Donna at 3:50 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Bella Donna at 3:50 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Hey all,
Thank you so much for the wide variety of advice and experience. The nearly unanimous message of - no hiatus, amicable break up! - is heard loud and clear.
To address a few concerns, I do feel very confident that I can say he is not just looking to have more sexual experiences - it's really that he doesn't know what relationships feel like, he really wants to get married in the next few years, but he also feels like it is irresponsible to himself to marry the first person he dated. And honestly, I understand all those things, and really appreciate the commenters that could see that as something a person would need... especially someone who had spent their entire life closeted in a cultural context that does not permit dating, then struggling with the aftermath of coming out and launching your family into turmoil. (There is also some special snowflake stuff - until just this week, he had thought we had different family goals, but had been mistaken).
I also read loud and clear that the most responsible option to myself is to break up, and move on. This is hard for me, because I have dated many many people and had many great relationships, and I do recognize that there is something special here. But I plan to put my own needs first.
At this point, it's going either of two ways. He is either going to wise up, stop torturing himself, and say, "fuck yes I am in this," or we're breaking up. I feel sad about the latter, but very peaceful and unafraid. Thanks to all of you for the fantastic advice!
posted by thelastpolarbear at 4:12 PM on August 29, 2015 [19 favorites]
Thank you so much for the wide variety of advice and experience. The nearly unanimous message of - no hiatus, amicable break up! - is heard loud and clear.
To address a few concerns, I do feel very confident that I can say he is not just looking to have more sexual experiences - it's really that he doesn't know what relationships feel like, he really wants to get married in the next few years, but he also feels like it is irresponsible to himself to marry the first person he dated. And honestly, I understand all those things, and really appreciate the commenters that could see that as something a person would need... especially someone who had spent their entire life closeted in a cultural context that does not permit dating, then struggling with the aftermath of coming out and launching your family into turmoil. (There is also some special snowflake stuff - until just this week, he had thought we had different family goals, but had been mistaken).
I also read loud and clear that the most responsible option to myself is to break up, and move on. This is hard for me, because I have dated many many people and had many great relationships, and I do recognize that there is something special here. But I plan to put my own needs first.
At this point, it's going either of two ways. He is either going to wise up, stop torturing himself, and say, "fuck yes I am in this," or we're breaking up. I feel sad about the latter, but very peaceful and unafraid. Thanks to all of you for the fantastic advice!
posted by thelastpolarbear at 4:12 PM on August 29, 2015 [19 favorites]
He's trying to be kind about breaking up with you, on the sole basis that he isn't ready to settle down... with you. He was clear about the fact he isn't asking for an open relationship, he wants to be single. Though you know you've got a good thing going together, he doesn't recognize it... his loss.
Honey, I'm sorry, but he's just not that into you. If he was, he would be trying to hold onto you in some way, but he's not.
posted by lizbunny at 4:12 PM on August 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
Honey, I'm sorry, but he's just not that into you. If he was, he would be trying to hold onto you in some way, but he's not.
posted by lizbunny at 4:12 PM on August 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think you're asking the wrong question. Why are you trying to build this person into YOUR life when it's clear that he wants you OUT of yours for an indeterminate amount of time? How supportive is this relationship, really, when he wants out for a while to fuck around? Is that what you'd call support? Perhaps this relationship isn't what you thought it was.
I want him to have as rich and deep a life experience as possible - but also, as someone who has been in a few different relationships, I recognize that our dynamic is very special, and am nervous about things that complicate it.
What's complicating the dynamic between you two is his desire to date other people. Think about that. Is it possible that you feel more for him, than he feels for you? And that his expressing a desire to come back to you is his way of letting you down easy and/or not feeling guilty about leading you on for six months? This guy doesn't know what he wants. And if he isn't crystal clear that he wants YOU, you should move on. Because you deserve better than that.
He doesn't feel like an open relationship would work for him, since he wants the 'single' experience.
No. No. No. Oh my, how convenient. The operative word here is "for HIM." He's not interested in a committed relationship, and he's not into you enough to change his mind about "the single experience." What the hell is the "single experience" anyway? Fuck other people? He's telling you exactly what he wants.
I want to make sure that I am doing what's right by me, but not to the point where I make reconciliation improbable.
So the responsibility for "reconciliation" falls on you? You are the determining factor whether this relationship works out? I don't buy that. Have you heard of the concept of "emotional labor"? Because really, you're doing all the work here. If a guy is into you, he shows you. He works for it. Read between the lines, and realize that this guy is completely willing to let you go.
Re-read your question as if your best friend posted it. What would you tell her?
Go find someone who doesn't want to let anything come between you. If a dude is into you, REALLY into you, they do little things (or big things) to show you that they care about you, think about you, and most importantly, that they DON'T want to meet/date/fuck other people. They make sure you don't get away, not the opposite.
Life is too short for games. Go out and find a guy who doesn't play them.
posted by onecircleaday at 4:15 PM on August 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
I want him to have as rich and deep a life experience as possible - but also, as someone who has been in a few different relationships, I recognize that our dynamic is very special, and am nervous about things that complicate it.
What's complicating the dynamic between you two is his desire to date other people. Think about that. Is it possible that you feel more for him, than he feels for you? And that his expressing a desire to come back to you is his way of letting you down easy and/or not feeling guilty about leading you on for six months? This guy doesn't know what he wants. And if he isn't crystal clear that he wants YOU, you should move on. Because you deserve better than that.
He doesn't feel like an open relationship would work for him, since he wants the 'single' experience.
No. No. No. Oh my, how convenient. The operative word here is "for HIM." He's not interested in a committed relationship, and he's not into you enough to change his mind about "the single experience." What the hell is the "single experience" anyway? Fuck other people? He's telling you exactly what he wants.
I want to make sure that I am doing what's right by me, but not to the point where I make reconciliation improbable.
So the responsibility for "reconciliation" falls on you? You are the determining factor whether this relationship works out? I don't buy that. Have you heard of the concept of "emotional labor"? Because really, you're doing all the work here. If a guy is into you, he shows you. He works for it. Read between the lines, and realize that this guy is completely willing to let you go.
Re-read your question as if your best friend posted it. What would you tell her?
Go find someone who doesn't want to let anything come between you. If a dude is into you, REALLY into you, they do little things (or big things) to show you that they care about you, think about you, and most importantly, that they DON'T want to meet/date/fuck other people. They make sure you don't get away, not the opposite.
Life is too short for games. Go out and find a guy who doesn't play them.
posted by onecircleaday at 4:15 PM on August 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
Lizbunny, you beat me to it. I almost posted the link to this book, now I have to : )
posted by onecircleaday at 4:16 PM on August 29, 2015
posted by onecircleaday at 4:16 PM on August 29, 2015
^"He's Just Not Into You" isn't a good answer though, because (YET AGAIN) it puts everything on women. He CHOSE to get into this relationship; if he wasn't into her he shouldn't have done that.
posted by Violet Hour at 4:22 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Violet Hour at 4:22 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: This will be my last comment so as not to thread-sit, but I'd like people to steer people to take into account the specific cultural context. The most analogous thing would be being gay in the 50s and 60s - when your desires are in absolute contrast with the only permissible behaviors in your culture, it can feel like your only options in life are (a) live a lie, (b) live in exile, or (c) commit suicide.
If, in your late 20s, you find out that a happy life is possible, something you had not considered before, I find it completely plausible that you would feel disoriented and emotionally confused by the urge to settle down with the first girl you ever had a date with.
posted by thelastpolarbear at 5:17 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
If, in your late 20s, you find out that a happy life is possible, something you had not considered before, I find it completely plausible that you would feel disoriented and emotionally confused by the urge to settle down with the first girl you ever had a date with.
posted by thelastpolarbear at 5:17 PM on August 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Mod note: One comment deleted. AskMe's not a debate or discussion space; if you've given your helpful answer, that's good, it's fine to let it rest there.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 5:32 PM on August 29, 2015
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 5:32 PM on August 29, 2015
I'm with you on this one, thelastpolarbear. I mean, sure, there are people who use those words as an excuse to avoid a harsh break-up but it can also be very genuine and rooted in a history like his own. I wish more people who have been on his side of the equation would share their experiences here but, admittedly, it's not the friendliest of threads right now. I know people have very good intentions but it sounds like you're wanting more messages of shared experiences and support than DTMFA. If you'd like to chat about this over MeMail for a bit, I'd be glad to listen and share my own stories.
posted by smorgasbord at 5:33 PM on August 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by smorgasbord at 5:33 PM on August 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
Basically your dude is feeling a bit hard done by cos he wrecked shit with his family for nothing, he's still going to end up monogamously attached to the first/only (?) person he's slept with. He's probably feeling that while he loves you and all he's gotten quite bad value out of the chaos he's caused and wants to be hung for the sheep, not the lamb.
While I am 95% on board with Violet as someone who is heartily glad to have avoided searching and having my heart broken and so on, it *is* a part of much of human experience in the west, and I sometimes wonder what it would be like to have had a little more breadth of experience as well as the depth that comes from having married young.
posted by Iteki at 2:36 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
While I am 95% on board with Violet as someone who is heartily glad to have avoided searching and having my heart broken and so on, it *is* a part of much of human experience in the west, and I sometimes wonder what it would be like to have had a little more breadth of experience as well as the depth that comes from having married young.
posted by Iteki at 2:36 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
he also feels like it is irresponsible to himself to marry the first person he dated.
I get 100% that he wants a more Western, less religiously closed way of leading his life, especially his dating life, but this sentence is saying that as the first person he dated, he will not be marrying you.
I wouldn't be ok with that regardless of how much I sympathized with his cultural journey.
posted by chainsofreedom at 5:27 AM on August 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
I get 100% that he wants a more Western, less religiously closed way of leading his life, especially his dating life, but this sentence is saying that as the first person he dated, he will not be marrying you.
I wouldn't be ok with that regardless of how much I sympathized with his cultural journey.
posted by chainsofreedom at 5:27 AM on August 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
A happy life IS possible for him - he could have that with you. What more does he want?
I started my first relationship at 24. My boyfriend was 23 and had kissed one other girl, that was all. Over two years later, we're living together and plan to get married, because we know how lucky we are to find what we have without going through years of bad relationships, breakups etc.
Sure, we're both lacking experience with other people. But in the end, I think (and maybe that means nothing to you because I lack experience) that you have to start anew with any new person anyway, get rid of your baggage, not use the same old formula on the new partner - so what does it matter?
posted by LoonyLovegood at 5:49 AM on August 30, 2015
I started my first relationship at 24. My boyfriend was 23 and had kissed one other girl, that was all. Over two years later, we're living together and plan to get married, because we know how lucky we are to find what we have without going through years of bad relationships, breakups etc.
Sure, we're both lacking experience with other people. But in the end, I think (and maybe that means nothing to you because I lack experience) that you have to start anew with any new person anyway, get rid of your baggage, not use the same old formula on the new partner - so what does it matter?
posted by LoonyLovegood at 5:49 AM on August 30, 2015
OP - I agree with you that there is a cultural element at play here, but based on my experience, that doesn't change the advice.
I married a man from a similar culture, and it produced an idealization of the Western dating culture that has made our marriage, up until very recently, extremely rocky. He was never as upfront about his feelings as your boyfriend is, but clearly had similar challenges in our early days.
He stated he was all in, but there were flags (that I ignored) that he wasn't ready to give up 'the dream' of Western dating and the first few years of our marriage were awful, and littered with his "friendships" with women, all of which featured completely inappropriate boundaries for a married man.
Which is to say that, given the cultural aspect at play, you need to be really honest with yourself if he does declare himself all-in on your relationship on whether he really is or if he's doing it because he knows that's what you want. Because if it's the latter, he's setting the two of you up for a pretty rocky path. We're finally starting to get to a really good place, but I don't think I would have signed up for this if I knew how it was going to go.
posted by scrute at 6:54 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I married a man from a similar culture, and it produced an idealization of the Western dating culture that has made our marriage, up until very recently, extremely rocky. He was never as upfront about his feelings as your boyfriend is, but clearly had similar challenges in our early days.
He stated he was all in, but there were flags (that I ignored) that he wasn't ready to give up 'the dream' of Western dating and the first few years of our marriage were awful, and littered with his "friendships" with women, all of which featured completely inappropriate boundaries for a married man.
Which is to say that, given the cultural aspect at play, you need to be really honest with yourself if he does declare himself all-in on your relationship on whether he really is or if he's doing it because he knows that's what you want. Because if it's the latter, he's setting the two of you up for a pretty rocky path. We're finally starting to get to a really good place, but I don't think I would have signed up for this if I knew how it was going to go.
posted by scrute at 6:54 AM on August 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
So, what I'll say is that I met my current wife after about a month after my previous longest relationship. I'd come into that one really fast after the previous, which was kind of my first of, "Hey, I can just ask women out and they'll go out with me?" adulting. I'd had a couple kinda dates with a classmate, and as things were getting serious with the now-wife, I had some of the "Maybe I should actually try being single for a while" thoughts — especially since I almost immediately went on a six-week internship in another state. What I figured was that I would be open and honest about this stuff, especially since she was leaving the state at the end of the summer, and we'd enjoy our relationship and if either of us wanted out, well, no hard feelings. By kind of pumping the brakes on our future scoping, it allowed me to think more of myself as dating her and less on an inexorable path to commitment.
But I really liked her, much more than anyone else I met, and so we just kept going and I don't regret not having the sewing oats or whatever the fuck now — we've been together about 13 ½ years.
posted by klangklangston at 11:17 AM on August 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
But I really liked her, much more than anyone else I met, and so we just kept going and I don't regret not having the sewing oats or whatever the fuck now — we've been together about 13 ½ years.
posted by klangklangston at 11:17 AM on August 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Thelastpolarbear:
I would ask you to consider if the reasons why he wants what he wants even matter. You seem to want to defend him, point out that he has good, understandable, not-his-fault Reasons. Okay, fine. Let's just grant that. So? Does it change the outcome?
I see people defend their partners a lot in this way, and I understand the instinct. But something it took me a long time to learn is that you do not have to be a bad, selfish person with bad, selfish Reasons for a relationship not to work out. He's probably a pretty good person, you're probably a pretty good person. You both have your reasons. Maybe he really does feel strongly for you and is torn. Great, fine- you still need to break up. That's the bottom line here. For both his sake and yours.
posted by quincunx at 11:55 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would ask you to consider if the reasons why he wants what he wants even matter. You seem to want to defend him, point out that he has good, understandable, not-his-fault Reasons. Okay, fine. Let's just grant that. So? Does it change the outcome?
I see people defend their partners a lot in this way, and I understand the instinct. But something it took me a long time to learn is that you do not have to be a bad, selfish person with bad, selfish Reasons for a relationship not to work out. He's probably a pretty good person, you're probably a pretty good person. You both have your reasons. Maybe he really does feel strongly for you and is torn. Great, fine- you still need to break up. That's the bottom line here. For both his sake and yours.
posted by quincunx at 11:55 AM on August 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Final update from the OP:
From a little over 3 years in the future, I can say this was happily resolved. We took a hiatus, and 2 weeks later decided we both liked each other too much to hiatus anymore. Today we are married, with a house, and will be having our nikah later this year! (don't ask about how the integration into the family will work, we are figuring it out as we go along!)posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 2:59 AM on January 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
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This is a thing that was totally under his control at the time (not moving too quickly into a relationship with you) and yet he did not manage it at the time. That's a bit of a flag. It's entirely possible that this is just due to his really being totally blindsided by his own set of new choices and the wonderfulness of you, but the fact that he is still rueing not having had the "single experience" indicates that you guys are not totally on the same page in terms of level of commitment. No big deal. I've seen people come back from this after some time off and forge tighter-than-ever bonds. I've also seen people make noises about how "perfect" they were together except for the one thing of they also wanted to be single, and those relationships didn't work.
So I'd say as much as you guys get along like a house on fire, he still has some stuff to work out. Which means (either therapy or) you split up for a while and you get back together later if it works out. "Supervised" singledom is not actually being single and you're (both) really setting yourself up for some later time where he still feels like he didn't have the real single experience but now you have kids and a house and whatever. So this isn't complicating the relationship as much as ending it and giving it a chance to come back around "If you love something set it free..." and all that. This guy doesn't know what he wants and feels ootchy about what he has. That's a thing that happens. But if he wants to be single I'd just make him single and agree on a time/date (three months, six months?) to check back in to see if you want to get back together
posted by jessamyn at 11:00 AM on August 29, 2015 [48 favorites]