Help me decide whether to move across the country
August 26, 2015 4:31 PM Subscribe
I live in San Francisco. I have a job offer in New York City. Should I move? It's complicated, of course.
The offer is just barely above what I set for myself as the salary I would move for.
MY JOB NOW: I really like it, but I am underpaid. I will make about $200 more per month if I stick it out through October. There is no potential for promotion. I have a side gig I really like that I would have to leave. My other side gig can come with me. I work in the school system, so I get a lot of time off in the summer, but no paid vacation and only ten sick days. I use Obamacare for benefits because my union sucks and the district would rather pay the fine. The school is underfunded and our library depends entirely on donations and grants. My district admin is...slapdash, but my site admin is great. I really, really like my coworkers and students.
MY JOB THERE: I got recruited really hard, but talking to people who work in NY, I don't hear any red flags about the job. I'd be a step above professional entry level, and on track for management if that's what I wanted to do (I'm considering it.) I would make about $800-$1000 more per month if I went to NY. The job is exactly what I want to do in life-- in fact it's just the same as my side gig. Commute would be about the same, but cost half as much. 3 weeks of paid vacation, 12 days of sick time. I'd have to work evenings and weekends, but I don't care.
COMPLICATIONS:
I am trans (but my documents all match up and I get read correctly as male about 60% of the time) and my credit is shitty (650-680 or so.) Both of those things have, in the past, made it difficult to get an apartment. I can't drive, and shipping my stuff ranges from $1500-3400 depending on how we do it. There is $2k of moving assistance.
My sister lives with me and is coming with-- she potentially has an offer to work in Manhattan that she wants to take. Her credit is better, like 750. She is willing to drive us across the country, but shipping any stuff would just be me. I would happily spend a week in the car with her.
I'm willing to pay about $800-900/month in rent before utilities, and I'm OK living in a really bad neighborhood in someone's illegal basement apartment (I currently pay $750 for an illegal garage unit in a terrible neighborhood with a bathroom down the hall.) I would live in a storage space if it had a shower, internet, and was cheap enough; my sister wants silly things like windows, a stove, and a bathroom not down the hall. I'm told, and judging from Craigslist, that you can still get a studio apartment in Queens or Brooklyn for less than a thousand dollars, and a 2-bed for less than $2000, which would be frankly delusional to expect in SF.
I have never spent more than three days in snowy conditions. I really, really liked NY when I visited over the summer, and even Manhattan doesn't seem too much like a playground exclusively for rich techbro assholes, like SF basically is now. I don't know anyone in New York. My friends and family mostly live on the west coast. My favorite aunt lives in NJ. I have never lived outside of California. I prefer living in big cities, I am not super outdoorsy, and I refuse to even look at places without functional public transit. There are nine states that mandate trans-related health coverage to be included in health plans, and CA and NY are two of them.
BIG COMPLICATION: my stepfather has terminal cancer and was recently given six weeks or less to live. I will need about $600 plus airfare to help out my mom when he dies. I will need to start my new job in mid-late October-- latest Nov. 2nd.
THE PLAN IF WE DON'T GO:
Immediately move to Oakland and cut my transit cost in half; our new apartment will likely have windows sufficient both to exit from and see the sky! My rent will go up some. Stay at my job but continually look for something better; my sister also has an offer in the Bay Area she is willing to take. Oakland is closer to the majority of my friends.
WHY I DO WANT TO GO:
Adventure. I moved to SF seven years ago, and I used up all the adventure it has, I guess. NYC is cool, and has all the amenities of the Bay Area. I would be doing what I originally planned to do with my life when I went to library school. I would have the potential to be promoted. My job would be more secure. NYC rental market is not as insane as SF. I would have more money-- easily $800-$1000/month more.
WHY I DON'T WANT TO GO:
I hate and fear change. Moving is hell. I'd have to find a new dentist, hairdresser, and I could no longer see my therapist. (I am basically OK, I just really like talk therapy.) Two expenses on the horizon are a new computer and wisdom teeth removal, and I'm worried that either of those will become a problem before I've saved up enough. I'm worried about whether the new job is as awesome as what I do now. I'm worried about my mom being alone in CA (we have no other family; my parents are divorced. My sister is not related to my mom. My mom is working, but makes a precarious living.) What if I screw this up somehow? The minimum wage in NY is much lower, and I'd be totally on my own with no savings. I like knowing where everything is and how to get there.
Y'all are rational and you're neutral parties. Should I move to NYC?
The offer is just barely above what I set for myself as the salary I would move for.
MY JOB NOW: I really like it, but I am underpaid. I will make about $200 more per month if I stick it out through October. There is no potential for promotion. I have a side gig I really like that I would have to leave. My other side gig can come with me. I work in the school system, so I get a lot of time off in the summer, but no paid vacation and only ten sick days. I use Obamacare for benefits because my union sucks and the district would rather pay the fine. The school is underfunded and our library depends entirely on donations and grants. My district admin is...slapdash, but my site admin is great. I really, really like my coworkers and students.
MY JOB THERE: I got recruited really hard, but talking to people who work in NY, I don't hear any red flags about the job. I'd be a step above professional entry level, and on track for management if that's what I wanted to do (I'm considering it.) I would make about $800-$1000 more per month if I went to NY. The job is exactly what I want to do in life-- in fact it's just the same as my side gig. Commute would be about the same, but cost half as much. 3 weeks of paid vacation, 12 days of sick time. I'd have to work evenings and weekends, but I don't care.
COMPLICATIONS:
I am trans (but my documents all match up and I get read correctly as male about 60% of the time) and my credit is shitty (650-680 or so.) Both of those things have, in the past, made it difficult to get an apartment. I can't drive, and shipping my stuff ranges from $1500-3400 depending on how we do it. There is $2k of moving assistance.
My sister lives with me and is coming with-- she potentially has an offer to work in Manhattan that she wants to take. Her credit is better, like 750. She is willing to drive us across the country, but shipping any stuff would just be me. I would happily spend a week in the car with her.
I'm willing to pay about $800-900/month in rent before utilities, and I'm OK living in a really bad neighborhood in someone's illegal basement apartment (I currently pay $750 for an illegal garage unit in a terrible neighborhood with a bathroom down the hall.) I would live in a storage space if it had a shower, internet, and was cheap enough; my sister wants silly things like windows, a stove, and a bathroom not down the hall. I'm told, and judging from Craigslist, that you can still get a studio apartment in Queens or Brooklyn for less than a thousand dollars, and a 2-bed for less than $2000, which would be frankly delusional to expect in SF.
I have never spent more than three days in snowy conditions. I really, really liked NY when I visited over the summer, and even Manhattan doesn't seem too much like a playground exclusively for rich techbro assholes, like SF basically is now. I don't know anyone in New York. My friends and family mostly live on the west coast. My favorite aunt lives in NJ. I have never lived outside of California. I prefer living in big cities, I am not super outdoorsy, and I refuse to even look at places without functional public transit. There are nine states that mandate trans-related health coverage to be included in health plans, and CA and NY are two of them.
BIG COMPLICATION: my stepfather has terminal cancer and was recently given six weeks or less to live. I will need about $600 plus airfare to help out my mom when he dies. I will need to start my new job in mid-late October-- latest Nov. 2nd.
THE PLAN IF WE DON'T GO:
Immediately move to Oakland and cut my transit cost in half; our new apartment will likely have windows sufficient both to exit from and see the sky! My rent will go up some. Stay at my job but continually look for something better; my sister also has an offer in the Bay Area she is willing to take. Oakland is closer to the majority of my friends.
WHY I DO WANT TO GO:
Adventure. I moved to SF seven years ago, and I used up all the adventure it has, I guess. NYC is cool, and has all the amenities of the Bay Area. I would be doing what I originally planned to do with my life when I went to library school. I would have the potential to be promoted. My job would be more secure. NYC rental market is not as insane as SF. I would have more money-- easily $800-$1000/month more.
WHY I DON'T WANT TO GO:
I hate and fear change. Moving is hell. I'd have to find a new dentist, hairdresser, and I could no longer see my therapist. (I am basically OK, I just really like talk therapy.) Two expenses on the horizon are a new computer and wisdom teeth removal, and I'm worried that either of those will become a problem before I've saved up enough. I'm worried about whether the new job is as awesome as what I do now. I'm worried about my mom being alone in CA (we have no other family; my parents are divorced. My sister is not related to my mom. My mom is working, but makes a precarious living.) What if I screw this up somehow? The minimum wage in NY is much lower, and I'd be totally on my own with no savings. I like knowing where everything is and how to get there.
Y'all are rational and you're neutral parties. Should I move to NYC?
I vote for NYC.
posted by Ms Vegetable at 4:54 PM on August 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Ms Vegetable at 4:54 PM on August 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: you worries tend to be short term things, while moving to nyc is the long term win ($1000/month adds up).
as a general rule, you should try do the thing that wins in the long term, despite the short term pain. that's what i would try to do, although i can see that it's not going to be easy (and i am not certain i am right).
posted by andrewcooke at 5:01 PM on August 26, 2015 [12 favorites]
as a general rule, you should try do the thing that wins in the long term, despite the short term pain. that's what i would try to do, although i can see that it's not going to be easy (and i am not certain i am right).
posted by andrewcooke at 5:01 PM on August 26, 2015 [12 favorites]
The offer is just barely above what I set for myself as the salary I would move for.
Congratulations on exceeding your goal! Seriously, go with your first instinct: move to NYC.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:03 PM on August 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Congratulations on exceeding your goal! Seriously, go with your first instinct: move to NYC.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:03 PM on August 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I listened to today's Happiness Project podcast and they talked about making big, difficult decisions. The advice they gave was to "choose the bigger life." Basically, stretch yourself and take things on so you can grow. It sounds like the job is just what you want, and you like NYC. Choose the bigger life.
posted by katie at 5:06 PM on August 26, 2015 [22 favorites]
posted by katie at 5:06 PM on August 26, 2015 [22 favorites]
Ignore the short term hell of moving, it's over quickly relative to the rest of your life.
Where does your mother live? If she's not in SF, then move. And yeah, $1000/month extra in your dream job sounds pretty good.
posted by kjs4 at 5:08 PM on August 26, 2015
Where does your mother live? If she's not in SF, then move. And yeah, $1000/month extra in your dream job sounds pretty good.
posted by kjs4 at 5:08 PM on August 26, 2015
It does take time to build a life in a new place, but you're not on your own, you've got your sister and aunt. I don't know, but imagine that it might even take less time than it did in SF to build your healthcare support team in NYC; so much of everything is there.
I think it's a really good idea to talk seriously with your mom about coming up with a new plan for her. If that doesn't happen in the short term, you'd be in a better position to help her with more money and a more stable and progressive career.
A good coat and boots will protect you from those winters.
You have everything you need to do this, and you totally can do this, and I think you should.
posted by cotton dress sock at 5:14 PM on August 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think it's a really good idea to talk seriously with your mom about coming up with a new plan for her. If that doesn't happen in the short term, you'd be in a better position to help her with more money and a more stable and progressive career.
A good coat and boots will protect you from those winters.
You have everything you need to do this, and you totally can do this, and I think you should.
posted by cotton dress sock at 5:14 PM on August 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
It sounds like you really want to move to NYC. It's better for your career and probably your long-term mental health (sounds like you've had enough of SF). I think you should do it.
posted by barnoley at 5:29 PM on August 26, 2015
posted by barnoley at 5:29 PM on August 26, 2015
'm willing to pay about $800-900/month in rent before utilities
Is this per person? You're not going to find anything other than an extreme share situation for that price, even in Queens or Brooklyn.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:36 PM on August 26, 2015
Is this per person? You're not going to find anything other than an extreme share situation for that price, even in Queens or Brooklyn.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:36 PM on August 26, 2015
SF... There is no potential for promotion.
NYC it is, then.
posted by infinitewindow at 5:44 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
NYC it is, then.
posted by infinitewindow at 5:44 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: You spend a whole lot of time exploring a bunch of finnicky doubts and worries, when right slap dab in the middle of your question is this:
The job is exactly what I want to do in life
See that? See that, right there? That's you talking about what you want, rather than what you worry about. That's you saying: YES! It doesn't get a lot of space in your question, but look at how clear your vision is about this point: you say YES to this career path without hesitation, without concern. You say YES YES YES... and then bury it under a bunch of "oh, hrm, but, you know..."
Screw that "oh, hrm.." I understand that. I'm horribly indecisive, and I hate and fear change to an incredible degree. I understand exactly where you're coming from, and I'm telling you: shut up already and embrace the future you want, the job you want, the life you want. It'll all work out. Apartments and winter weather, etc., that's all just a bunch of bullshit you'll be able to work your way through. Don't let it stop you from that amazing YES YES YES you've clearly got, here.
I mean, seriously: congratulations! Wait, it should be stronger: con-fucking-gratulations!!!!
posted by meese at 5:45 PM on August 26, 2015 [20 favorites]
The job is exactly what I want to do in life
See that? See that, right there? That's you talking about what you want, rather than what you worry about. That's you saying: YES! It doesn't get a lot of space in your question, but look at how clear your vision is about this point: you say YES to this career path without hesitation, without concern. You say YES YES YES... and then bury it under a bunch of "oh, hrm, but, you know..."
Screw that "oh, hrm.." I understand that. I'm horribly indecisive, and I hate and fear change to an incredible degree. I understand exactly where you're coming from, and I'm telling you: shut up already and embrace the future you want, the job you want, the life you want. It'll all work out. Apartments and winter weather, etc., that's all just a bunch of bullshit you'll be able to work your way through. Don't let it stop you from that amazing YES YES YES you've clearly got, here.
I mean, seriously: congratulations! Wait, it should be stronger: con-fucking-gratulations!!!!
posted by meese at 5:45 PM on August 26, 2015 [20 favorites]
"I hate and fear change."
So does everybody. It's scary.
From the guy who never takes any chances in life, just fucking do it.
posted by notsnot at 5:48 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
So does everybody. It's scary.
From the guy who never takes any chances in life, just fucking do it.
posted by notsnot at 5:48 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Do the NYC thing. Give yourself two years there, and then you can always move back to CA if you hate it. Taking this job and doing it well for two years will benefit your life no matter where you move after that. You have a built-in roommate you like (lucky!) with whom you can commiserate about the culture shock if it comes to that (very helpful!). Chances are your health insurance will improve with this job and you will be laying out less for medical expenses, right?
Your hairdresser, dentist, etc have lives of their own and may tell you next month they're moving, as my hairdresser just did.
It sounds like the most compelling reason to stay is family. Which is important, no doubt, if you have a supportive family. But they, too, may move.
TLDR: Consider this a sojourn of 1-2 years. It's not forever. But the job and the life experience will most likely be a huge asset to you going forward.
posted by Pearl928 at 5:51 PM on August 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
Your hairdresser, dentist, etc have lives of their own and may tell you next month they're moving, as my hairdresser just did.
It sounds like the most compelling reason to stay is family. Which is important, no doubt, if you have a supportive family. But they, too, may move.
TLDR: Consider this a sojourn of 1-2 years. It's not forever. But the job and the life experience will most likely be a huge asset to you going forward.
posted by Pearl928 at 5:51 PM on August 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
I have never spent more than three days in snowy conditions.
OK, so, other than the rent, this would be my only concern. New York is going to be cold and gross in about 9 weeks, and sometimes it is cold and gross until May. You can have a great, fulfilling job, but New York winters are dark and sometimes harsh. If you're willing to try it for a year and re-evaluate, I say do it.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:51 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
OK, so, other than the rent, this would be my only concern. New York is going to be cold and gross in about 9 weeks, and sometimes it is cold and gross until May. You can have a great, fulfilling job, but New York winters are dark and sometimes harsh. If you're willing to try it for a year and re-evaluate, I say do it.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:51 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'm willing to pay about $800-900/month in rent before utilities, and I'm OK living in a really bad neighborhood in someone's illegal basement apartment (I currently pay $750 for an illegal garage unit in a terrible neighborhood with a bathroom down the hall.) I would live in a storage space if it had a shower, internet, and was cheap enough; my sister wants silly things like windows, a stove, and a bathroom not down the hall. I'm told, and judging from Craigslist, that you can still get a studio apartment in Queens or Brooklyn for less than a thousand dollars, and a 2-bed for less than $2000, which would be frankly delusional to expect in SF.
For what it's worth, i think people on mefi seem to have higher standards than myself(and you). Several of my friends have places in brooklyn that fit within those parameters, and a few have hopped around between places in various weird corners of manhattan that did as well.
Will you probably end up sharing a sketchy warehouse with random home made plywood walls and stuff, or a really weird apartment with an absentee landlord that's the only unit in the small building directly above a stinky takeout place? Yea, but my friends paying like $600 for a huge bedroom in one of said sketchy warehouses. Everyone i know pays less than 1k a person.
The trick is that these places do not go on craigslist. They've all sourced them through friends or contacts/connections networking while doing whatever art-y thing it is they do. You kind of need to get established before you can really find the cheapo sketchy deals, or know someone there who can line you in.
Knowing people who have done both, $1000 more a month in NYC is basically just $1000 a month more in your pocket, if not more. Rent seems to be consistently cheaper there than what my friends pay in the bay area.
posted by emptythought at 5:53 PM on August 26, 2015
For what it's worth, i think people on mefi seem to have higher standards than myself(and you). Several of my friends have places in brooklyn that fit within those parameters, and a few have hopped around between places in various weird corners of manhattan that did as well.
Will you probably end up sharing a sketchy warehouse with random home made plywood walls and stuff, or a really weird apartment with an absentee landlord that's the only unit in the small building directly above a stinky takeout place? Yea, but my friends paying like $600 for a huge bedroom in one of said sketchy warehouses. Everyone i know pays less than 1k a person.
The trick is that these places do not go on craigslist. They've all sourced them through friends or contacts/connections networking while doing whatever art-y thing it is they do. You kind of need to get established before you can really find the cheapo sketchy deals, or know someone there who can line you in.
Knowing people who have done both, $1000 more a month in NYC is basically just $1000 a month more in your pocket, if not more. Rent seems to be consistently cheaper there than what my friends pay in the bay area.
posted by emptythought at 5:53 PM on August 26, 2015
I see you are 31 and having lived in places emptythought describes in my 20s there's a super good chance you don't want to be living there at this point in your life.
posted by griphus at 5:58 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by griphus at 5:58 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Specifically: people not from NYC who come from shitty apartments tend to seriously underestimate the squalor and filth of shitty apartments here. Devote a bit more of your budget to rent and live somehwhere they fix the toilets if they break.
posted by griphus at 6:03 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by griphus at 6:03 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Reading your whole question, one phrase jumps out at me:
I will need about $600 plus airfare to help out my mom when he dies.
If you are close enough to the line budget-wise that you are worried about coming up with $1000, then this move is going to be very, very tough and stressful. So the question for me comes down to is, is it worth it to you to massively increase your stress for the next 6 months or so. If so, go for it!
posted by latkes at 6:10 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
I will need about $600 plus airfare to help out my mom when he dies.
If you are close enough to the line budget-wise that you are worried about coming up with $1000, then this move is going to be very, very tough and stressful. So the question for me comes down to is, is it worth it to you to massively increase your stress for the next 6 months or so. If so, go for it!
posted by latkes at 6:10 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: It sounds like you're going to move regardless of whether you take this job, so all the credit/moving/change stuff happens (though to a lesser degree) if you don't take the NYC job, anyway. But you'd still have a job with very few benefits, and be paying more in rent.
If I were you, I'd take the NYC job with the November start date.
posted by jaguar at 6:23 PM on August 26, 2015
If I were you, I'd take the NYC job with the November start date.
posted by jaguar at 6:23 PM on August 26, 2015
I think you may be underestimating the difficulty of finding a place to live in Oakland right now, and I see that as another point toward moving to NY.
posted by needs more cowbell at 6:33 PM on August 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by needs more cowbell at 6:33 PM on August 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
You mention that you like talk therapy, and we can assume you've talked over pros and cons with your therapist. One key variable, besides rent, may be finding an affordable, compatible, not-too-difficult-to-get-to therapist in NY. Can your current one network you to a colleague?
If you move, psychic budgeting is huge. You're correctly assessing the challenge of finding everything new. In the thick of the arrival after my last move, I set a limit of no more than three new things per day. This after one too many times in tears, at the end of my ropy-rope-rope.
Flood zone NYC. A not inconsiderable part of NYC was underwater after Hurricane Sandy in 2012 (important hospitals closed and etcetera) with severe transit disruptions. Probably no more chance of catastrophic whatnot than in Bay Area...but the Five Borough landmass isn't getting any higher.
posted by xaryts at 6:35 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you move, psychic budgeting is huge. You're correctly assessing the challenge of finding everything new. In the thick of the arrival after my last move, I set a limit of no more than three new things per day. This after one too many times in tears, at the end of my ropy-rope-rope.
Flood zone NYC. A not inconsiderable part of NYC was underwater after Hurricane Sandy in 2012 (important hospitals closed and etcetera) with severe transit disruptions. Probably no more chance of catastrophic whatnot than in Bay Area...but the Five Borough landmass isn't getting any higher.
posted by xaryts at 6:35 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I moved to a major city for a new job that was a perfect opportunity for me. I had no money, it was fucking terrible, I starved for a month (fit all my jeans tho), I was working two jobs and often used a police escort to walk to the bus stop at 4AM in a bad neighborhood to make money at a side gig. Apartment was a sublet that was infested with bugs and sweltering hot all summer. Two years later, I have a new job (that I got because of the first job), I make a steady income, live in a decent apartment, I'm in grad school (paying for two courses out of pocket), I go on vacations... I have the life I was looking for when I moved!
So I'd say: DEFINITELY do it. Will the first six months suck? Very possibly so. But NYC is amazing, you have a great opportunity (your sister will drive you there?? Live with you? Do it!), you'll be making more money, you'll be doing what you dream of. The only complication is your stepfather-- which I totally understand how difficult that is-- but if you have any ability to scrape together the $600, and flying back when necessary is doable, then do it. Seriously-- do it!
And start saving as soon as you possibly can. I'd budget for a non-disgusting apartment if possible, because that's probably going to affect your stress levels/toleration of the move. But once your income exceeds your immediate needs, start socking that money into savings. Then if the job goes sideways, at least you have a cushion..
posted by easter queen at 7:41 PM on August 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
So I'd say: DEFINITELY do it. Will the first six months suck? Very possibly so. But NYC is amazing, you have a great opportunity (your sister will drive you there?? Live with you? Do it!), you'll be making more money, you'll be doing what you dream of. The only complication is your stepfather-- which I totally understand how difficult that is-- but if you have any ability to scrape together the $600, and flying back when necessary is doable, then do it. Seriously-- do it!
And start saving as soon as you possibly can. I'd budget for a non-disgusting apartment if possible, because that's probably going to affect your stress levels/toleration of the move. But once your income exceeds your immediate needs, start socking that money into savings. Then if the job goes sideways, at least you have a cushion..
posted by easter queen at 7:41 PM on August 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
As a resident of Oakland, jumping ship from SF to here means cheaper rent on average, but finding an apartment is absolute hell, absurdly competitive, and rents are rising faster than SF. And then you're stuck in this job that doesn't compare with your NYC offer!
Moving is expensive and stressful. Adjusting to a new city takes time. Those processes end! Consistently earning more money, feeling more stable, loving what you do -- those things sustain, and sustain us. And it sounds like you have an excellent teammate on board! Congratulations on the offer, how incredibly exciting! Get packing.
posted by missmary6 at 8:10 PM on August 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Moving is expensive and stressful. Adjusting to a new city takes time. Those processes end! Consistently earning more money, feeling more stable, loving what you do -- those things sustain, and sustain us. And it sounds like you have an excellent teammate on board! Congratulations on the offer, how incredibly exciting! Get packing.
posted by missmary6 at 8:10 PM on August 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
NYC sounds like to better option to me. The only real reason against it is that you don't want to go through the hassle and disruption of moving. I don't think that's a good enough reason when you consider everything in the plus column. If you don't like it, you can always move back.
posted by AppleTurnover at 10:07 PM on August 26, 2015
posted by AppleTurnover at 10:07 PM on August 26, 2015
I would make about $800-$1000 more per month if I went to NY. The job is exactly what I want to do in life-- in fact it's just the same as my side gig
So you're telling me that you found a great job that you like and that you're making significantly more money, even compared to the expensive metro area that you already live in? (The latter would have been my concern as someone who just moved to NYC for a great job who is nominally making more money than before, but actually experiencing a loss of purchasing power.) Do it!
posted by andrewesque at 4:41 AM on August 27, 2015
So you're telling me that you found a great job that you like and that you're making significantly more money, even compared to the expensive metro area that you already live in? (The latter would have been my concern as someone who just moved to NYC for a great job who is nominally making more money than before, but actually experiencing a loss of purchasing power.) Do it!
posted by andrewesque at 4:41 AM on August 27, 2015
Best answer: I actually missed the oakland bit when i first wrote my comment, but...
5~ years ago or so lots of my friends were moving to oakland. Now, some of them took jobs out of the country because they were tired of the housing situation there. Many of the rest of them came back, or otherwise moved away. At least one or two people i know went from there to NYC/the boroughs. I've seen nothing but griping on social media about the rental market, and friends who have visited(including the guy who moved to europe for work) just had negative comments about how hosed it's getting. It sounds like seattle but worse, with any affordable place being swamped within an hour and rented the same day with backups a mile deep before you even get there. Landlords just raking in application fees and rolling around on the floor laughing.
It definitely seems like its days as greener pastures are over in any decent area, and i say this as someone who had a plan on the table to move there for quite a while.
posted by emptythought at 4:55 AM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
5~ years ago or so lots of my friends were moving to oakland. Now, some of them took jobs out of the country because they were tired of the housing situation there. Many of the rest of them came back, or otherwise moved away. At least one or two people i know went from there to NYC/the boroughs. I've seen nothing but griping on social media about the rental market, and friends who have visited(including the guy who moved to europe for work) just had negative comments about how hosed it's getting. It sounds like seattle but worse, with any affordable place being swamped within an hour and rented the same day with backups a mile deep before you even get there. Landlords just raking in application fees and rolling around on the floor laughing.
It definitely seems like its days as greener pastures are over in any decent area, and i say this as someone who had a plan on the table to move there for quite a while.
posted by emptythought at 4:55 AM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't want to come off as a debbie downer but I'm not sure how your real estate price estimates and commute estimates work out. Where in NYC is the new job? You say you'd be working nights and weekends, when the generally reliable subway is anything but, and your rent budget will surely have you looking pretty far out along one or more transit lines.
The other thing that stuck out to me was your concern about getting picked for an apartment with so so credit. The surest way to deal w that would be to offer more cash up front. . . But based on your comments about needing cash for final expenses and airfare for your ailing relative that also seems like it might be an issue for you?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 4:58 AM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
The other thing that stuck out to me was your concern about getting picked for an apartment with so so credit. The surest way to deal w that would be to offer more cash up front. . . But based on your comments about needing cash for final expenses and airfare for your ailing relative that also seems like it might be an issue for you?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 4:58 AM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Are you willing to have roommates? One or two bedrooms in your price range are completely feasible in several perfectly livable places, if you're willing to be part of a 4-ish person share.
posted by R a c h e l at 5:47 AM on August 27, 2015
posted by R a c h e l at 5:47 AM on August 27, 2015
Best answer: I say go to NYC. Better job + more growth potential + more money = no brainer.
That said, here's some advice. Make no mistake, I think you should go, and I think you'd probably like NYC. But just some stuff to think about...
While rents here are insane, I don't think it is quite as bad as the Bay Area. If you're not too picky about the neighborhood, you could probably find a place for ~$900/month per person with your sister. Your credit may be an issue, but it may not be - I've heard of people having trouble finding places because of bad credit, but I don't know that 650-680 is bad enough to cause you problems, especially when your sister has very good credit. The sub-$1k studio in Brooklyn/Queens is mostly a thing of the past, but you could probably find something acceptable with a roommate.
One thing you may have difficulty with is the commute. You will probably be looking at a 45-minute commute, at the very least, and possibly an hour or so. If you are working nights and weekends your commutes at those times will likely be considerably longer. The subway also has been having, like, absurd amounts of problems lately (seriously, I think I've experienced more major delays in the past year than I had in the 10-plus years prior to that), and it looks like it is going to get worse before it gets better. And, longer and more complex commutes - and you'll have one of those, at your budget - mean more potential exposure to subway issues. Still, I think public transit here is a lot better than in SF/Oakland.
I also think you may be underestimating the cultural differences between NYC and SF. I've never lived in SF, but I've visited several times. Yes, SF has tech bros, but NYC has finance bros, and really it's about the same. YMMV, but I find SF to be way, way more laid back than NYC, despite the tech bros. You don't have to have a super-go-getter lifestyle here if you don't want to, but there's something about the density and the frequently-shitty weather and the small apartments that just grinds on people sometimes.
The city is also HUGE, and getting out of town is a slog. I know you said you're not really an outdoorsy type, but still. There are lots of nice neighborhoods to wander in, and lots of pretty parks and places, but the city lacks SF's grand vistas and close proximity to mountains and beautiful beaches and pretty little towns (we have beaches, but they are flat and often crowded).
Finally, the weather. You've already mentioned the winter. It's going to be an adjustment for you. But I want to talk about the summer. See, California does not have humidity the way we do on the East Coast. Have you ever experienced a truly muggy day, let alone several muggy days in a row, where you are drenched in sweat after walking two blocks (even if the temperature isn't that high)? This is a thing that happens every summer here, and it suuuucks. It's not always like that - today is a pleasant 80 degrees and dry, for example - but it happens often enough. You are going to want air conditioning, and cool, comfortable clothes.
Again: I say none of this to dissuade you. The job sounds like an awesome opportunity, and you sound like someone who would like NYC, all told. I'm sorry you are dealing with some stuff in your family, but I have to think you can find a way to work that out. I just wanted to let you know a bit more about what you might be in for. That said, though, you should take the plunge!
posted by breakin' the law at 8:56 AM on August 27, 2015
That said, here's some advice. Make no mistake, I think you should go, and I think you'd probably like NYC. But just some stuff to think about...
While rents here are insane, I don't think it is quite as bad as the Bay Area. If you're not too picky about the neighborhood, you could probably find a place for ~$900/month per person with your sister. Your credit may be an issue, but it may not be - I've heard of people having trouble finding places because of bad credit, but I don't know that 650-680 is bad enough to cause you problems, especially when your sister has very good credit. The sub-$1k studio in Brooklyn/Queens is mostly a thing of the past, but you could probably find something acceptable with a roommate.
One thing you may have difficulty with is the commute. You will probably be looking at a 45-minute commute, at the very least, and possibly an hour or so. If you are working nights and weekends your commutes at those times will likely be considerably longer. The subway also has been having, like, absurd amounts of problems lately (seriously, I think I've experienced more major delays in the past year than I had in the 10-plus years prior to that), and it looks like it is going to get worse before it gets better. And, longer and more complex commutes - and you'll have one of those, at your budget - mean more potential exposure to subway issues. Still, I think public transit here is a lot better than in SF/Oakland.
I also think you may be underestimating the cultural differences between NYC and SF. I've never lived in SF, but I've visited several times. Yes, SF has tech bros, but NYC has finance bros, and really it's about the same. YMMV, but I find SF to be way, way more laid back than NYC, despite the tech bros. You don't have to have a super-go-getter lifestyle here if you don't want to, but there's something about the density and the frequently-shitty weather and the small apartments that just grinds on people sometimes.
The city is also HUGE, and getting out of town is a slog. I know you said you're not really an outdoorsy type, but still. There are lots of nice neighborhoods to wander in, and lots of pretty parks and places, but the city lacks SF's grand vistas and close proximity to mountains and beautiful beaches and pretty little towns (we have beaches, but they are flat and often crowded).
Finally, the weather. You've already mentioned the winter. It's going to be an adjustment for you. But I want to talk about the summer. See, California does not have humidity the way we do on the East Coast. Have you ever experienced a truly muggy day, let alone several muggy days in a row, where you are drenched in sweat after walking two blocks (even if the temperature isn't that high)? This is a thing that happens every summer here, and it suuuucks. It's not always like that - today is a pleasant 80 degrees and dry, for example - but it happens often enough. You are going to want air conditioning, and cool, comfortable clothes.
Again: I say none of this to dissuade you. The job sounds like an awesome opportunity, and you sound like someone who would like NYC, all told. I'm sorry you are dealing with some stuff in your family, but I have to think you can find a way to work that out. I just wanted to let you know a bit more about what you might be in for. That said, though, you should take the plunge!
posted by breakin' the law at 8:56 AM on August 27, 2015
If I were you I would think hard about whether I really need to ship $1500-3400 worth of stuff. Do you own really nice furniture? If not, it's probably cheaper to leave your furniture here in the Bay and just get stuff off Craigslist when you get to NYC. Also, check out Amtrak for shipping. It's shockingly cheap for non-furniture stuff, like clothes, pots and pans, and small appliances.
posted by Aizkolari at 9:14 AM on August 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Aizkolari at 9:14 AM on August 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: You also don't need to live in a shitty apartment. Are you okay with living in a not-hip area of Queens (Rego Park, Woodhaven, Middle Village) or Brooklyn (Sheepshead Bay, Bensonhurst) or the Bronx? You could get a perfectly pleasant 2-bedroom there for the trade off of a long commute.
Too many people move to New York and think they need to live in Bushwick or Bed-Stuy to afford rent. This is not the case.
posted by Automocar at 12:41 PM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Too many people move to New York and think they need to live in Bushwick or Bed-Stuy to afford rent. This is not the case.
posted by Automocar at 12:41 PM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Welp, looks like I'm moving! I moved to SF with no plan, no job prospects, and no money and that turned out OK, so I may as well do what I love.
Oddly enough, my distant older relatives are popping out of the woodwork telling me all sorts of "when we came from the old country, Queens was where our people lived..." which is sweet and sort of encouraging. And...I can always move somewhere else later.
Thanks for everyone's helpful advice-- even if you aren't a best answer, I appreciate your input. In particular, I appreciate advice about not choosing something out of fear of what might happen. And advice about the rental situation, because seriously, I'm calibrated for SF ("Oh, we used to dream of living in a corridor!")
posted by blnkfrnk at 6:48 AM on August 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
Oddly enough, my distant older relatives are popping out of the woodwork telling me all sorts of "when we came from the old country, Queens was where our people lived..." which is sweet and sort of encouraging. And...I can always move somewhere else later.
Thanks for everyone's helpful advice-- even if you aren't a best answer, I appreciate your input. In particular, I appreciate advice about not choosing something out of fear of what might happen. And advice about the rental situation, because seriously, I'm calibrated for SF ("Oh, we used to dream of living in a corridor!")
posted by blnkfrnk at 6:48 AM on August 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
i had several friends trying to do this in 2012 and it was impossible for them then, i don't think it's possible now. they were considering many many neighborhoods, even far out. the two bedroom under 2k idea is more reasonable though.
posted by zdravo at 4:48 PM on August 26, 2015