I don't know if I am reading signs or reading into signs

January 15, 2015 7:00 AM

I have a female friend at work who I would very much like to be into me and am not sure if due to that I am reading into things - I probably am. For example, "what does that sudden hug mean?" or "Is this a dinner date or just dinner?"

I have a female friend at work that I have known for perhaps about two years. The last year or so we have become closer. We have about a 9 year separation between us, which may or may not matter. At any rate about a year ago we began to have occasional lunches outside the office (Can't remember who started it). On the occasions we all went to the bar after work she and I were often the last ones there and chatted up a storm. That's pretty much the way it went - along with trading snarky comments on Skype, etc during meetings.

A few months ago we went to a conference along with a group of people, but she and I were semi-glued at the hip. The day she got in she invited me over to her AirBNB rental before we went to get dinner. Most the dinners and night events we were together in some capacity (usually with other people but off by ourselves). The second night there I was walking her back to her AirBNB and when we bid goodbye for me to get a cab she hugged me - I don't know that we had ever really touched before. The last day there we hung out pretty much all day, had dinner and then went ti her AirBNB again before I have to leave in the evening for a flight.

Since we have returned we have gone to dinner twice - in both cases meeting at the place. I have paid both times (she was willing to split but didn't fight me on me getting it). Each of those times we have ended the night with a hug - initiated by her.

For what its worth she also seems to like every one of my instagram posts (if that matters).

So the reason I don't want to just ask her out or try a kiss is 1) I work with her 2) I really value her friendship and don't want to lose it.

I couldn't read signs from a woman two feet away - so is there anything here or am I reading into it? Is there anyway to test the water safely?

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (26 answers total)

I think she likes you. Not wanting to date a coworker is legitimate and that is up to you.
posted by discopolo at 7:05 AM on January 15, 2015 [4 favorites]

I think you two are dating. But you should tread carefully (because she is a co-worker).

You'll need to use your words. Next time you are out to dinner just ask "Hey, so are we a thing now?"

In preparation for her saying "no," you should decide whether you're comfortable with maintaining the level of intimacy you've got now while you're just friends, so that if she says "no" you can let her know that things might have to change.

But she'll probably say yes.
posted by sparklemotion at 7:09 AM on January 15, 2015 [3 favorites]

Yes, ask her on a date. Use the word date. As in, "I would like to take you out on a date, would you like to try [this new Thai place] on [Saturday]?"

It sounds like she likes you, but as a woman who has male friends and has formed close platonic friendships with coworkers, I really couldn't say if she like-likes you or not. So you should ask, officially, to go on an official date. If she says no thanks, you haven't made the working relationship awkard with a rejected kiss. It's just a question.

Go for it!
posted by phunniemee at 7:10 AM on January 15, 2015 [17 favorites]

If you're into her, and you want to know if she's into you, then ask. If she says, "Not in that way," then you know. Up to you if you let that ruin your friendship. If she says "Yes" you know your answer there as well. I once got a "Yes, but I don't date coworkers," which was fine. We stayed friends with chemistry clear until she got married.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:11 AM on January 15, 2015 [3 favorites]

Look, you are going to have to talk to her about this. It's true that if you are reading the signs wrong it may be a little awkward, but it's a hell of a lot less awkward than going in for a kiss if she thinks you two are just besties. There are multiple angles at play here - dating a friend and dating a coworker, either of which can be treacherous on their own, but combined? I just don't think it's possible to navigate without honesty up front. You should talk about whether you two are attracted to each other and whether acting on that attraction is worth risking the friendship and collegial relationship you already share.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:11 AM on January 15, 2015 [2 favorites]

I disagree with other commenters that you are dating. You are colleagues who get along great and prefer each other's company over other colleagues.

If you want to ask her out, do it. But as a woman who goes to happy hour/is social-media-friends with/runs 5ks with/hugs male work friends, I would assume nothing. Especially since neither of you have broached the subject after a full year of one-on-ones.

You can't ensure a "yes" by guesswork. You have to take the risk and ask her out, if you want to go out with her.
posted by headnsouth at 7:16 AM on January 15, 2015 [25 favorites]

If you want to pursue this, then you have to use the word "date". Not "hang out" or "do something" or "chill". Make your intentions clear.

It's up to you if you want to date her or not, though. I guess this much is obvious. But not wanting to lose a friend or alienate a co-worker are both good reasons for avoiding it. However, if you feel a spark, remember that life is short.

Asking someone out doesn't automatically make things awkward if everyone involved is adult about it.
posted by inturnaround at 7:19 AM on January 15, 2015 [4 favorites]

You could try an approach that is explicitly about testing the waters for future potential, rather than establishing anything embarrassing (to either or both parties) about what is or isn't going on now.

Something like: "You're so much fun. Should we consider dating? Or would that be too strange?" To which she can then reply: "Um, that would be strange", or: "Actually that sounds worth trying". To which you can then reply: "You're probably right. So it's back to the dating websites [sigh]. Oh hey, [change of topic]" or "[express pleasure, propose next date]".
posted by feral_goldfish at 7:22 AM on January 15, 2015 [38 favorites]

From what you have said, if you want to date her, you should ask her out, using the word "date" as others have said. Nothing you've said sounds like you're reading into anything; I would assume she wants to date you, but you should certainly ask.
posted by jaguar at 7:23 AM on January 15, 2015

inturnaround: "It's up to you if you want to date her or not, though. I guess this much is obvious. But not wanting to lose a friend or alienate a co-worker are both good reasons for avoiding it. However, if you feel a spark, remember that life is short."

The problem with this is that she might already think you are dating. You have to ask her about how she views the relationship.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:24 AM on January 15, 2015 [1 favorite]

she might already think you are dating.

Uh, maybe, but I think most women would see this as either a collegial friendship or a grey area that could do with clarification. But yeah asking is fine.
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:31 AM on January 15, 2015 [10 favorites]

You say there is a 9 year separation between you, but it would have been more helpful if you had provided your respective ages. If she's over 30 I would ask her on a date.

If she's in her 20's, and especially in her early 20's, I would stay far far away from the idea of asking for a date. Young women who are new to the workforce often are very bad about adhering to proper boundaries with work colleagues, and tend to treat them as friends or even something more. It's ego boosting to keep guys at work on the back burner, even when the woman doesn't have a legitimate romantic interest.

Since you've been hanging out so much, have you ever had conversations with her about her love life? It might be helpful to you to clarify if she is single and looking before you do anything else.
posted by vignettist at 7:43 AM on January 15, 2015 [20 favorites]

I dunno - I don't usually let males coworkers pay for dinners out (let alone dine alone with them!) unless we're dating. However, maybe she does - we can't know! You're going to have to ask, and I agree that doing so in a way that saves your friendship is totally possible.

"We have so much fun together. I would like to call this next dinner out a date, how about you? Either ways is fine, we can remain good friends. I just really like spending time with you, and think it would be great to get to know each other even better."

And then Listen. It sounds like she like-likes you and that she's trying to indicate that, but only she can say. As folks have said above at Worst it'll just be a little awkward briefly if you do this right. At best you'll get to explore a relationship with an awesome person you like.
posted by ldthomps at 7:45 AM on January 15, 2015 [9 favorites]

She showed interest and, just as importantly if not more so, trust in inviting you to her room. I agree that unless she's in her very early 20s and new to the work force, you should ask her on a date, and be specific about it being a date. I like ldthomps' script above. I'd also suggest making that date dinner plus something else -- a movie, a comedy club, dancing, whatever you like to do.
posted by Gelatin at 7:58 AM on January 15, 2015 [1 favorite]

I'm not sure she has shown any romantic interest though. OP is right to be asking this question without automatically assuming she wants to date him - he needs a bit more obvious proof of her interest, and should obtain that by asking her out using feral_goldfish's script, which I would personally find super charming and cool.

Nthing they are absolutely NOT "dating" right now. If they had at least kissed already, my answer might be different, but still even then, some sort of meeting of the minds would have needed to be expressed, like their agreed-upon use of the word "date" and/or just a lot more physicality.

What's giving me pause that she might not be romantically interested in you yet OP, is that she hasn't touched you in any way besides the 3 separate end-of-the-night hugs that she initiated, correct?

When I used to be single and was romantically interested in guys, I let them touch me. I ask lots of personal questions about their family and life. I'd make sure they don't have a girlfriend. I'd be flirty and I'd smile a lot. My body language towards them would be open. If I wanted a dude to kiss me, I'd first use any opportunity to hold his hand. I'd be touching him in many little ways. I'd stay really close after those end-of-the night hugs and look into his eyes, then down to his mouth, then back up to his eyes. And I'd invite him back to my place to "watch a movie," where I'd hope to get him to make out with me on my sofa. But then again, I'm in my 30s, so this particular set of behaviors perhaps has a much different cultural significance to someone my age than it would to a younger woman in her early 20s, as others have said. It would be helpful to know your ages.
posted by hush at 8:45 AM on January 15, 2015 [2 favorites]

With a 9 year age difference, I could see her thinking you can better afford paying for dinner than she can (hence allowing you to pay) and that you're her good work friend. I don't hug dates goodnight, I hug friends goodnight. I like the suggestion of asking her if she thinks you should date, and please don't be hurt if she's surprised when you ask - she may simply have not considered it before, not because you wouldn't be an appealing date, but because of the age difference & work relationship. She may be delighted at the idea, she may not be. But asking is the only way to know her feelings.
posted by pammeke at 8:51 AM on January 15, 2015 [2 favorites]

Some people from really close friendships that can look/feel relationshippy to others - hell, I've had a few awkward situations where people have assumed I was dating, or interested in dating, a co-worker with whom I hung out CONSTANTLY (the last time this happened, the co-worker in question was male and I, in fact, was in the process of sussing out that actually I prefer the ladies). So while I think the situation you're describing could certainly be hopeful, I agree 100% with everyone saying that you need to ask her - you just can't assume here.

Ldthomps' script seems perfect to me, but you really need to be okay with the possibility that her answer may be no. It doesn't have to be weird, and you don't have to lose her friendship, as long as you don't MAKE it weird.

And good luck to you - I really hope you'll update through a mod after you ask her out, and I hope her answer is yes!
posted by DingoMutt at 9:16 AM on January 15, 2015 [4 favorites]

Yeah, if she's in her early 20s, this is most likely a cliche and a mistake, IMO. Too risky. Not worth it.

If she's like 27+ this is fine.
posted by quincunx at 10:01 AM on January 15, 2015 [2 favorites]

Oof, yeah, I definitely found myself in this situation in my early 20s with much-older dude colleagues. Whatever you do, *don't* waffle. State your intentions clearly, hear her answer and respect it unfailingly (and if she gives you a vague "I dunno" kind of thing, insist on clarity and honesty--though really if she says anything other than OH LORD YES you should take that as a no).

All of the above applies regardless of age. However if she IS in her early 20s while you are in your 30s, Dan Savage's "campsite rule" applies:
If you date her, you're under serious obligation to not be any kind of asshole in the process. This is her career, and while it's ultimately her responsibility, that doesn't mean some hot and bothered dude should actively make it harder for her to maintain. That means don't do anything stupid, like cheat on her with another coworker, create in-office drama, or break up in some cowardly stupid way (you know the ways I mean). Basically if she's real young, and you ain't, don't date her unless you're really ready to be a good boyfriend. You know in your gut whether you really are or not.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:17 AM on January 15, 2015 [4 favorites]

Age is definitely a factor here, but regardless, I think the only thing to do is to ask for clarification. Something like, "Hey we've become close over the past year & I've had a wonderful time when we've gone out socially, but I'm not sure if we're just friends or you're interested in pursuing something more. I'm fine with it either way, but I don't want to make you uncomfortable by making assumptions." Regardless of her answer, it will help avoid any weirdness & you'll actually know what's up. Maybe that doesn't sound super romantic, but since you work together, the age difference, & that this could just be platonic, a simple conversation is the safest and easiest route to go. Good luck!
posted by katemcd at 11:19 AM on January 15, 2015 [2 favorites]

Signs are for augurs reading entrails. The only way to communicate clearly about relationships (platonic or romantic) is to communicate clearly. Make sure she has the space to say no, but through this lens it looks like there's at least potential. You have to talk to her about it though. (Handily, the secret to maintaining a good relationship is also to communicate with your partner.)
posted by klangklangston at 11:46 AM on January 15, 2015 [4 favorites]

It's clear to me she likes you enough as a friend that your asking her won't freak her out. And you do need to ask if you want to know. With two caveats:

1) Agree that her age makes a world difference here. If she's early 20s/new to the workforce/just moved out of her parents' house/etc., she may just not have great boundaries and you have to be the more mature one here, as that would put you in your early to mid-30s.

You didn't specify ages, but I assume you are older than her, so heed the people saying she should be over, say, 25-26 for this to be appropriate. Additionally, there is a generation gap and I have found that women this age are more huggy, more chatty online, more up for getting drinks with coworkers, etc., than me (a woman in her 30s) so don't automatically take those as concrete signs she wants you.

2) You also don't specify in which capacity you are coworkers. Are you in any way senior to her, do you have a role in her projects, do you work directly with her every day, do you share a supervisor, would you ever be up for the same assignments or promotions? I don't necessarily endorse a strict a no-coworkers policy but there are shades of grey, degrees of separation, that would make this more or less appropriate, depending.

If the above is all on the up and up, just ask, and don't worry about losing the friendship. If you don't ask, the friendship is already lost anyway, because she'll think you're friends but you're secretly pining for her.
posted by kapers at 11:47 AM on January 15, 2015 [1 favorite]

The next time you're grabbing a bite ask her, "We see a lot of each other outside of work. I don't want things to be weird but it's starting to feel like dating. For what it's worth, I would like that. What do you think?"

Now the ball is in her court. If she says yes, then great, you're dating. If she says, "no, we're just good friends." Be respectful.

Now you know and there's no drama.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:48 AM on January 15, 2015 [4 favorites]

You are not dating until you say you're dating. From what you've described, I wouldn't consider your outings with her to be dates. I have platonic male friends I do all of those things with, including hugging them. However, it sounds like she might be interested in you. I think it's best to get stuff like that out in the open. Example: I have a guy friend who is 20 years older than I am. I'm single and he has a long-distance girlfriend. We're both guitarists, and one day he invited me over to his house to jam. Alone. He matter-of-factly mentioned that he found me attractive and he wanted to get it out in the open so things wouldn't be weird. But also, he wasn't planning to act on it because of his girlfriend. He didn't bring it up in a skeevy or testing-the-waters way. It was just a statement of fact with no flirting or weird energy, probably motivated by him wanting me to know he was committed to his girlfriend in case I had other ideas. I thanked him for the compliment and his honesty and we went on to play music, non-awkwardly. I wasn't disappointed as I had no designs on him in the first place. There is always the risk of disappointing someone if you're not willing to act on your attraction or if there isn't any attraction. But the earlier something is said, the better. Otherwise, you can inadvertently lead a person on. This happened to me once and it ruined an otherwise great friendship.

Feral Goldfish has great advice for how to bring it up non-awkwardly. I also don't think that a 9-year age difference is that big of a deal if both of you are over 25.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 1:33 PM on January 15, 2015 [3 favorites]

You should first of all weigh if it's worth it to potentially turn your work environment on its head. Having an awesome friend at work who you really like spending time with is not exactly a bad place to be, and stay, in. If your post was all "I can't stop thinking about this person and we have this insane connection!!!" I'd be more inclined to recommend going for it, but as stated it sounds like you found someone whose company you enjoy and whose attention probably flatters you a bit. "I wouldn't not sleep with you" is a fine criterion in everyday life, but it wouldn't be unwise to set the bar a bit higher for the workplace.
posted by threeants at 5:05 PM on January 15, 2015

I agree that you need to make the situation between you clear and to do it as openly but un-pushily as you can -- I like Feral Goldfish and Ruthless Bunny's scripts, even though in general, it is unwise to accept the dating advice of wild animals.
posted by Drexen at 5:11 AM on January 16, 2015 [5 favorites]