Hiding from a stalker
December 31, 2014 6:52 AM Subscribe
Asking for a friend: How did her stalker find her again? It seems like she's following all the advice out there on staying safe and yet this woman keeps coming back.
The stalker in question is a 50-year-old woman with a previous friend-level relationship with Ms X, as we can call my friend.
X has moved several times, changed her phone number, has all addresses/mail in her family member's name, disabled GPS on her phone, is not on social networks and essentially goes to the gym, the store for groceries, and home. She uses a tom-tom to navigate but takes it out of the car between trips. She is considering changing her license plate or car altogether.
It has been over two years since their "friendship" was discontinued, and so information the stalker has about places X would go or people she's connected to are out of date. And yet, like the cat that comes back, she's found her again.
This is a serious safety concern, so I'm hoping people can offer ideas of how you might find somebody's home who is trying their best to be "off the grid" (as much as you can these days) so that we can "stalker proof" her life as best as possible. She is working on an order of protection, pressing charges, etc, but in the meantime, she's hoping to relocate and not bring the stalker along with her. Any ideas you have would be greatly appreciated.
The stalker in question is a 50-year-old woman with a previous friend-level relationship with Ms X, as we can call my friend.
X has moved several times, changed her phone number, has all addresses/mail in her family member's name, disabled GPS on her phone, is not on social networks and essentially goes to the gym, the store for groceries, and home. She uses a tom-tom to navigate but takes it out of the car between trips. She is considering changing her license plate or car altogether.
It has been over two years since their "friendship" was discontinued, and so information the stalker has about places X would go or people she's connected to are out of date. And yet, like the cat that comes back, she's found her again.
This is a serious safety concern, so I'm hoping people can offer ideas of how you might find somebody's home who is trying their best to be "off the grid" (as much as you can these days) so that we can "stalker proof" her life as best as possible. She is working on an order of protection, pressing charges, etc, but in the meantime, she's hoping to relocate and not bring the stalker along with her. Any ideas you have would be greatly appreciated.
First off, are the police involved? If not, why not?
Second, make sure that there isn't some super obvious avenue from an oblivious friend who doesn't know this woman is a problem. Like, "hey, haven't seen X around lately, know how I could get in touch with her?" "Oh sure," says mutual acquaintance, "she lives on Main St now," etc.
Does your friend have a regular job? It seems like it would be easy enough to go to her work, wait for the familiar car to leave, and follow her car.
If X has an uncommon name, it would be dead easy to track her down with a few google searches.
posted by phunniemee at 7:03 AM on December 31, 2014 [16 favorites]
Second, make sure that there isn't some super obvious avenue from an oblivious friend who doesn't know this woman is a problem. Like, "hey, haven't seen X around lately, know how I could get in touch with her?" "Oh sure," says mutual acquaintance, "she lives on Main St now," etc.
Does your friend have a regular job? It seems like it would be easy enough to go to her work, wait for the familiar car to leave, and follow her car.
If X has an uncommon name, it would be dead easy to track her down with a few google searches.
posted by phunniemee at 7:03 AM on December 31, 2014 [16 favorites]
I'll trot out MeFi favorite The Gift of Fear on the restraining order business; the stalker's feelings of validation and acknowledgment from the stalked may actually make the problem worse in some situations. Not that it's necessarily the wrong choice here, just that you may want to reconsider the conventional wisdom (or even police advice) that this is something she must do if she wants to stay safe.
posted by hollyholly at 7:05 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by hollyholly at 7:05 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
My stalker had access to personal data via his job in government & financial services. It's possible your friend's stalker has a similar opening.
posted by kariebookish at 7:07 AM on December 31, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by kariebookish at 7:07 AM on December 31, 2014 [6 favorites]
Could the stalker have employment or a contact in the debt collection industry, for example? Then she'd have the same resources a debt collector would for tracking someone down.
posted by XMLicious at 7:07 AM on December 31, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 7:07 AM on December 31, 2014 [4 favorites]
The stalker might have spoken to friends and relatives who don't take OP's friend's concerns seriously. People are often entirely too free with information that should be kept private if approached in the right way. That's why social engineering works.
posted by starbreaker at 7:08 AM on December 31, 2014 [13 favorites]
posted by starbreaker at 7:08 AM on December 31, 2014 [13 favorites]
Another thought - could the stalker have gotten access to Ms X's email password while they were friends, like by watching over her shoulder while it was being typed?
If so, and the password hasn't been changed since then, the stalker could be reading Ms X's email and determining where she is that way.
posted by XMLicious at 7:14 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
If so, and the password hasn't been changed since then, the stalker could be reading Ms X's email and determining where she is that way.
posted by XMLicious at 7:14 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
starbreaker is right - anyone who knows the two of them is a possible vector of communication. Particularly since it's an older woman it's possible people are not taking the problem as seriously as they should.
Your friend should think about who she is giving her personal information and if they are possibly giving that to the stalker or exposing her information through carelessness.
posted by winna at 7:16 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
Your friend should think about who she is giving her personal information and if they are possibly giving that to the stalker or exposing her information through carelessness.
posted by winna at 7:16 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: They currently have no shared friendships. The only people knowing her address include her mother, room-mate and myself. Same for phone numbers. A basic google search brought up old addresses of the mother but none for X
The stalker is employed in a field that would not provide her with unusual access to information (trying to be vague but useful here) unless she fraudulently calls someplace which then violates HIPAA
Police are involved but as yet have been unable to catch her on scene. In the past because it was a woman stalking a woman and there was no "romantic history" it was disregarded, but the detective in charge this time around seems to have his head screwed on straight and statues have been changed in the meantime to remove the relationship requirement (thank goodness). They are moving ahead with taking statements and getting a PPO and establishing documentation for prosecution should she violate the protection order.
posted by gilsonal at 7:22 AM on December 31, 2014
The stalker is employed in a field that would not provide her with unusual access to information (trying to be vague but useful here) unless she fraudulently calls someplace which then violates HIPAA
Police are involved but as yet have been unable to catch her on scene. In the past because it was a woman stalking a woman and there was no "romantic history" it was disregarded, but the detective in charge this time around seems to have his head screwed on straight and statues have been changed in the meantime to remove the relationship requirement (thank goodness). They are moving ahead with taking statements and getting a PPO and establishing documentation for prosecution should she violate the protection order.
posted by gilsonal at 7:22 AM on December 31, 2014
Response by poster: also she is currently on disability for medical reasons, so has not been working or going to school
posted by gilsonal at 7:24 AM on December 31, 2014
posted by gilsonal at 7:24 AM on December 31, 2014
Best answer: She's on disability? And presumably sees a doctor regularly, then? Getting a doctor's office to give out the new address over the phone would be dead easy. "Hi, I'm X. Mm-hm, my birthday is January 1, 1965. I can't remember if I updated you with my new address, I'm so sorry. Do you still have the old 123 Fourth Street address on file? No, what do you have? OK great, that's right. Thanks, bye!"
posted by Andrhia at 7:31 AM on December 31, 2014 [26 favorites]
posted by Andrhia at 7:31 AM on December 31, 2014 [26 favorites]
If Ms. X is on disability and has moved recently, I assume she doesn't own a home and she isn't listed anywhere for the purposes of paying real estate taxes. Those two things can be easily looked up in most areas, though, so worth mentioning.
Does Ms. X use any of the same gyms, stores, or other regular haunts as she used to, or anything that could be easily worked out (e.g. there are two Thai places in town, and she used to go to Thai One, but now goes to Thai Two)? I'm pretty sure if anyone wanted to stalk me and knew my car on sight, they would be able to find me by waiting outside my regular grocery store/favorite restaurant for a few evenings until I came by.
Also, if the stalker KNOWS anyone who does skiptracing, car repos, or anything like that, she may be able to talk them into running down info for her, even if she herself doesn't work in the field. It might be worth getting a new, different car with new plates to avoid being traceable in something like a license-plate scanner database.
posted by pie ninja at 7:32 AM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
Does Ms. X use any of the same gyms, stores, or other regular haunts as she used to, or anything that could be easily worked out (e.g. there are two Thai places in town, and she used to go to Thai One, but now goes to Thai Two)? I'm pretty sure if anyone wanted to stalk me and knew my car on sight, they would be able to find me by waiting outside my regular grocery store/favorite restaurant for a few evenings until I came by.
Also, if the stalker KNOWS anyone who does skiptracing, car repos, or anything like that, she may be able to talk them into running down info for her, even if she herself doesn't work in the field. It might be worth getting a new, different car with new plates to avoid being traceable in something like a license-plate scanner database.
posted by pie ninja at 7:32 AM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
Ms. X. needs to go on an "Everything Is a Burner-Phone" protocol for a little while... that is, treat every possible transaction as a one-time deal. She needs to change her e-mail password frequently (and use two-step authentication), as well as other passwords. She needs to reimage any computers/cell phones often. She should rent, borrow, or trade cars whenever possible. She should temporarily stop seeing as many of her "usual" service providers (doctors, mechanics, hairdressers, whatevs) as possible and use new ones each time (just for now). She should use different routes to get to different places whenever she must leave the house. When she DOES move, she should have someone else complete all of the technical aspects of it - ideally a friend-of-a-friend - and the move should take place as covertly as possible. I am so sorry this is happening to your friend, it sounds horrific.
posted by julthumbscrew at 7:34 AM on December 31, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by julthumbscrew at 7:34 AM on December 31, 2014 [5 favorites]
If Ms X is on Medicare or Medicaid and the stalker works in a medical type office (or has someone with that access) she can easily get the address if Ms X by verifying her insurance. Medicare prints the address on their verification reports. My states Medicaid does as well. Stalker would need Ms X date of birth and SSN but once you have those you can always pull that info.
posted by MultiFaceted at 7:38 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by MultiFaceted at 7:38 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
Best answer: How technologically savvy is the stalker? Would she be capable of using some sort of tracking device on Ms. X's car, for instance?
Does the stalker know where Ms. X works? If so, she might be doing something like staking out the place at closing time, then watching when Ms. X leaves --- can anybody at work help your friend by watching the lot for people just sitting around? Changing cars and license plates (not just the plates) is a good idea. If Ms. X takes public transportation she's still easy to track: following the bus until she sees Ms. X get off, following through the subway, etc. The solution to that is to vary the route Ms. X takes both to go places and to go home again: don't always take Bus A, take the long way round by taking Bus B then transferring to Bus C. If Ms. X carpools, then she could try to ride different routes with different drivers.
Does Ms. X have a garage to park in at home, or some other way to get her car off the street and out of sight? If no garage and the driveway is short, how about a car cover?
And yes, all mail currently goes to a different address than her actual one: ditto using that address (or her mother's address), not Ms. X's actual address, for anything like the car license and registration, doctors, anything.
Oh, and the route-varying thing: if there's the slightest possibility the stalker knows you and Ms. X's mother, also vary your routes whenever you go to see Ms. X or if she comes to visit you.
posted by easily confused at 7:46 AM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
Does the stalker know where Ms. X works? If so, she might be doing something like staking out the place at closing time, then watching when Ms. X leaves --- can anybody at work help your friend by watching the lot for people just sitting around? Changing cars and license plates (not just the plates) is a good idea. If Ms. X takes public transportation she's still easy to track: following the bus until she sees Ms. X get off, following through the subway, etc. The solution to that is to vary the route Ms. X takes both to go places and to go home again: don't always take Bus A, take the long way round by taking Bus B then transferring to Bus C. If Ms. X carpools, then she could try to ride different routes with different drivers.
Does Ms. X have a garage to park in at home, or some other way to get her car off the street and out of sight? If no garage and the driveway is short, how about a car cover?
And yes, all mail currently goes to a different address than her actual one: ditto using that address (or her mother's address), not Ms. X's actual address, for anything like the car license and registration, doctors, anything.
Oh, and the route-varying thing: if there's the slightest possibility the stalker knows you and Ms. X's mother, also vary your routes whenever you go to see Ms. X or if she comes to visit you.
posted by easily confused at 7:46 AM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
Could X get a mailbox from a small, non-chain mailbox service (this is an example of one in Seattle, though not a particular recommendation) or use something like Earth Class Mail for her mail needs? Change everything she can get her hands on to that, give that address for any form of correspondence.
On preview, like what easily_confused says but with a third-party, unrelated service. I suggest a non-chain service because if she explains what is going on, or at least that she wants absolutely no one to have her "real" address (USPS regulations require it to be given to a mailbox service), the independent store is more likely to honor that request or at least be on the lookout for someone sniffing around. Don't use an address that is related to anyone she knows, just in case.
I also suggest that Ms. X get a US passport card if she is a US citizen. That card contains her photo, full name, and date of birth but nothing else. She can use that for ID and avoid leaking the residence address on her license. Several states allow the use of non-residence addresses on licenses for victims of stalking.
posted by fireoyster at 7:51 AM on December 31, 2014 [4 favorites]
On preview, like what easily_confused says but with a third-party, unrelated service. I suggest a non-chain service because if she explains what is going on, or at least that she wants absolutely no one to have her "real" address (USPS regulations require it to be given to a mailbox service), the independent store is more likely to honor that request or at least be on the lookout for someone sniffing around. Don't use an address that is related to anyone she knows, just in case.
I also suggest that Ms. X get a US passport card if she is a US citizen. That card contains her photo, full name, and date of birth but nothing else. She can use that for ID and avoid leaking the residence address on her license. Several states allow the use of non-residence addresses on licenses for victims of stalking.
posted by fireoyster at 7:51 AM on December 31, 2014 [4 favorites]
How big of a city are we talking about? Stalker could be randomly seeing your friend around town and following her home.
posted by erst at 7:57 AM on December 31, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by erst at 7:57 AM on December 31, 2014 [7 favorites]
Is it possible that the stalker got hold of your friends' ss# at some point? She can find out pretty much everything she needs to with that including looking up your friends detailed credit reports online complete with bills with addresses depending on the service used.
Has your friend checked to see if there's any fancy GPS homing device on her car? (Good ones are usually pretty expensive so not sure if stalker could afford it, but might as well check underneath the car.)
Does your friend still own the same computers/ laptops that she had before the move? Stalker could've installed a keylogger in one of them back in the day and may have your friends' passwords. This would give her access to all her emails etc. This is very cheap and easy for any stalker to do and you don't need to have much tech know-how to do it. Changing passwords is a good idea, but if the keylogger is still active, stalker will be able to access those too. Have all computers checked and once cleared change passwords.
posted by rancher at 7:57 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
Has your friend checked to see if there's any fancy GPS homing device on her car? (Good ones are usually pretty expensive so not sure if stalker could afford it, but might as well check underneath the car.)
Does your friend still own the same computers/ laptops that she had before the move? Stalker could've installed a keylogger in one of them back in the day and may have your friends' passwords. This would give her access to all her emails etc. This is very cheap and easy for any stalker to do and you don't need to have much tech know-how to do it. Changing passwords is a good idea, but if the keylogger is still active, stalker will be able to access those too. Have all computers checked and once cleared change passwords.
posted by rancher at 7:57 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Okay so: this might seem slightly tangential to your question (and I see other people giving more directly useful advice) but did you ever read this article? A guy from Wired tried to go "off the grid" and keep anyone from discovering his whereabouts. He had thousands of dollars riding on his success, he was very tech-savvy, and yet people found him fairly easily within a couple of months, maybe sooner.
Yes, that was the whole world looking for him, as opposed to one person. Still, I think it powerfully makes the point that, in this day and age, there simply is no 'off the grid.' The grid is everywhere. If you use the internet, use credit cards, have a job, pay bills...the world is interconnected now in a way it wasn't before. Your friend's stalker might not seem like an internet genius, but as someone pointed out above, as an older woman she has the advantage when it comes to social engineering - and that, not any kind of sophisticated hacking, is what eventually gave away the guy from Wired.
This is all just to say that while you may be able to plug this particular hole, I would strongly suggest that your friend's safety plan not hinge on her ability to hide from her stalker forever. Not only will this drastically limit her options in the long term (does she plan never to get a job? Or own a house?) even in the short term, and even if you solve this immediate problem, it is almost certain to fail.
I'm sure she is very stressed out and scared right now, so I wouldn't say this quite so bluntly to her, but as her friend, I hope you will work hard with her, and with the police, to explore other options for keeping her safe. They exist, I promise. Please help her find them.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:59 AM on December 31, 2014 [19 favorites]
Yes, that was the whole world looking for him, as opposed to one person. Still, I think it powerfully makes the point that, in this day and age, there simply is no 'off the grid.' The grid is everywhere. If you use the internet, use credit cards, have a job, pay bills...the world is interconnected now in a way it wasn't before. Your friend's stalker might not seem like an internet genius, but as someone pointed out above, as an older woman she has the advantage when it comes to social engineering - and that, not any kind of sophisticated hacking, is what eventually gave away the guy from Wired.
This is all just to say that while you may be able to plug this particular hole, I would strongly suggest that your friend's safety plan not hinge on her ability to hide from her stalker forever. Not only will this drastically limit her options in the long term (does she plan never to get a job? Or own a house?) even in the short term, and even if you solve this immediate problem, it is almost certain to fail.
I'm sure she is very stressed out and scared right now, so I wouldn't say this quite so bluntly to her, but as her friend, I hope you will work hard with her, and with the police, to explore other options for keeping her safe. They exist, I promise. Please help her find them.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:59 AM on December 31, 2014 [19 favorites]
Is it possible the mother gave it out? I know my mom would give my address if someone called and was plausible about it. 'Hi, this is X's doctor, can you confirm her address?'
posted by winna at 8:04 AM on December 31, 2014
posted by winna at 8:04 AM on December 31, 2014
Best answer: Please follow the steps outlined in this article: Remove your personal info from data brokers. I keep an extremely low profile in the world and online and a truly terrifying amount of my personal information was on a bunch of these sites.
Your friend might also try to use Google Voice or a burner rather than a traditional cell set-up.
And change the license plate for sure -- it's pretty easy to find someone if you have their plate number.
posted by divined by radio at 8:08 AM on December 31, 2014 [26 favorites]
Your friend might also try to use Google Voice or a burner rather than a traditional cell set-up.
And change the license plate for sure -- it's pretty easy to find someone if you have their plate number.
posted by divined by radio at 8:08 AM on December 31, 2014 [26 favorites]
Putting things in the name of family members is only protection if the stalker doesn't know those names. If I had my sister's name on my lease, it wouldn't do me much good as a strategy for hiding, as my sister and I share the same last name.
If the stalker was actually a friend, and is truly dedicated, she will know the names of X's friends and family, and can backtrack to X through them. Has X changed her car since they were friends? Has she changed physicians, etc? Stalkers can be very creative in using information they have, or can even hire private detectives to ferret out someone's location.
I'm sorry for your friend, it must be very stressful and disturbing.
posted by suelac at 8:27 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
If the stalker was actually a friend, and is truly dedicated, she will know the names of X's friends and family, and can backtrack to X through them. Has X changed her car since they were friends? Has she changed physicians, etc? Stalkers can be very creative in using information they have, or can even hire private detectives to ferret out someone's location.
I'm sorry for your friend, it must be very stressful and disturbing.
posted by suelac at 8:27 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
She needs to make sure the security questions on her e-mail, bank's website, etc. aren't ones her stalker would be able to answer.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:52 AM on December 31, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:52 AM on December 31, 2014 [4 favorites]
Best answer: The stalker could watch the mother's house, wait for ms. X to up. Follow her home.
The simplest answer fits here as a solid possibility.
Ms. X should consider going out of town for a while. Conversely, Ms. X. could start living life openly and wait for the stalker to harrass her and get arrested.
What the stalker does and the jurisdiction is important. Does the stalker send threatening emails or texts? Physically assault Ms. X? Cluster phone call? What exactly?
Is there documentation from past episodes available? How dangerous is the stalker really? (I know that last one is hard to answer!)
Look. I had a stalker I just got rid of 3.5 years ago. I really really get it. My stalker still lives in my area and I'm vigilant about staying aware of my surroundings when out in public to this day.
In my case, I'm probably not in physical danger, if I ever was. The psychological harrassment was extremely extremely acute. But I don't think I was ever really in danger danger - not if I'm honest - even though when the stalker is that crazy who can tell, right?
If possible, your friend should hire an attorney to liason with the police. I almost did that myself just before my final ruse worked and the stalker buggered off. Present all documentation and get whatever court order required.
And then what? Wait for a violation and put the stalker in jail? For how long? Would a jail experience deter this person?
I'd like to give you better advice. It took 3.5 years of ignoring my stalker/harasser to get them to give up. I hope if your friend is truly in danger the police and courts protect her.
Just a thought - if the stalker turns up and is harassing your friend, your friend can still call the police. She doesn't need a court order for that.
Like a said, best answers depend on the details and you are understandably being vague.
If my stalker was turning up in person, I would have a lawyer and be calling the police for emergency assistance during every incident. Period.
If the stalking was more electronic (phone/email) I would have a lawyer and use the documentation to immediately get the appropriate court order.
If the stalking is via regular mail, at least in the US, that is serious serious shit and my ass would be filing all sorts of claims and reports to the PostMaster General because that violates federal a and the consequences are very serious. They don't mess around.
I'm going to stop here in case you update. Those are my general thoughts and experiences.
3.5 years and I still daily scan crowds whenever I'm in public. I know. Tell your friend I convey my best wishes for a speedy resolution.
Best of luck.
posted by jbenben at 9:00 AM on December 31, 2014 [16 favorites]
The simplest answer fits here as a solid possibility.
Ms. X should consider going out of town for a while. Conversely, Ms. X. could start living life openly and wait for the stalker to harrass her and get arrested.
What the stalker does and the jurisdiction is important. Does the stalker send threatening emails or texts? Physically assault Ms. X? Cluster phone call? What exactly?
Is there documentation from past episodes available? How dangerous is the stalker really? (I know that last one is hard to answer!)
Look. I had a stalker I just got rid of 3.5 years ago. I really really get it. My stalker still lives in my area and I'm vigilant about staying aware of my surroundings when out in public to this day.
In my case, I'm probably not in physical danger, if I ever was. The psychological harrassment was extremely extremely acute. But I don't think I was ever really in danger danger - not if I'm honest - even though when the stalker is that crazy who can tell, right?
If possible, your friend should hire an attorney to liason with the police. I almost did that myself just before my final ruse worked and the stalker buggered off. Present all documentation and get whatever court order required.
And then what? Wait for a violation and put the stalker in jail? For how long? Would a jail experience deter this person?
I'd like to give you better advice. It took 3.5 years of ignoring my stalker/harasser to get them to give up. I hope if your friend is truly in danger the police and courts protect her.
Just a thought - if the stalker turns up and is harassing your friend, your friend can still call the police. She doesn't need a court order for that.
Like a said, best answers depend on the details and you are understandably being vague.
If my stalker was turning up in person, I would have a lawyer and be calling the police for emergency assistance during every incident. Period.
If the stalking was more electronic (phone/email) I would have a lawyer and use the documentation to immediately get the appropriate court order.
If the stalking is via regular mail, at least in the US, that is serious serious shit and my ass would be filing all sorts of claims and reports to the PostMaster General because that violates federal a and the consequences are very serious. They don't mess around.
I'm going to stop here in case you update. Those are my general thoughts and experiences.
3.5 years and I still daily scan crowds whenever I'm in public. I know. Tell your friend I convey my best wishes for a speedy resolution.
Best of luck.
posted by jbenben at 9:00 AM on December 31, 2014 [16 favorites]
spokeo, intelius, white pages, etc would have all her new addresses and list her previous addresses as well 9to make sure you have the right Ms.X while looking someone up). Ms. X should contact these on-line services to get her information removed as best she can.
[snip]
Could X get a mailbox from a small, non-chain mailbox service...Change everything she can get her hands on to that, give that address for any form of correspondence.... I suggest a non-chain service because if she explains what is going on, or at least that she wants absolutely no one to have her "real" address (USPS regulations require it to be given to a mailbox service)
posted by cosmic.osmo at 11:09 AM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
[snip]
Could X get a mailbox from a small, non-chain mailbox service...Change everything she can get her hands on to that, give that address for any form of correspondence.... I suggest a non-chain service because if she explains what is going on, or at least that she wants absolutely no one to have her "real" address (USPS regulations require it to be given to a mailbox service)
- A PO Box might work too, I have one that I use when I move, and I've never updated the official address associated with it and the USPS has not complained.
- File a USPS change of address form to forward all mail to the PO Box from the old address, and move. Do not forward mail from the PO box to the new address. This will throw off the data brokers for awhile, since many of them get updated addresses by querying a USPS change of address database. In my experience it takes data brokers/junk mailers a while to find out about a new address without an official change of address form, and that's with no attempt on my part to hide it (I manually change my address with companies whose mail I want).
posted by cosmic.osmo at 11:09 AM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
Could your friend use either her mom's address from now on or a mail forwarding service? My relatives from NY are RV-ers and have a mail forwarding company in TX have all their bills sent to the company and held, then forwarded all over the country as they travel.
posted by Toddles at 11:24 AM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Toddles at 11:24 AM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
Best answer: re: How was the info found...could the new address be on Ms. X's credit report? Landlords can easily request credit reports, and perhaps the stalked pretended to be one to get that info? In that case, I really think your friend needs to have a fake address for all correspondence, bills, disability and even the doctors office. Also if your friend is on disability and the stalker has her social security info then the stalker can totally get the new address, easy.
posted by Toddles at 11:29 AM on December 31, 2014
posted by Toddles at 11:29 AM on December 31, 2014
Is she registered to vote? The name and addresses of registered voters are available to the public unless you do some extra paperwork to make yours private.
posted by Jacqueline at 11:32 AM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Jacqueline at 11:32 AM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
If she is receiving her mail at a relative's address then the stalker might just have staked out that address waiting for her and then followed her home.
Instead of having her mail delivered to a place where she has to go and pick it up, she could switch to using a scanning and forwarding service like Earth Class Mail.
posted by Jacqueline at 11:40 AM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
Instead of having her mail delivered to a place where she has to go and pick it up, she could switch to using a scanning and forwarding service like Earth Class Mail.
posted by Jacqueline at 11:40 AM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
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"Ms. X. could start living life openly and wait for the stalker to harrass her and get arrested. "
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This strikes me as the only fully rational route.
It sounds like Ms X might be (?) experiencing more pain, inconvenience, and expense in her defensive maneuverings than the offense would deliver, unhampered. Other than out-and-out murder, I doubt this stalker could do more damage to Ms X than Ms X is doing to herself in reaction to the stalking.
So I've got to agree with the poster who suggests simply letting it play out. If she acts out, arrest. If not....fine. If she expects the stalker to act out in ways too small to warrant arrest, then perhaps consider whether Ms X's defensive machinations have been appropriate to the threat level (little short of Freddy Krueger could make me go to the pains she's already gone through).
Needless to say, I don't know all the details (and might feel differently if I did), so please receive this accordingly. And I hope it all resolves okay in the end.
posted by Quisp Lover at 12:53 PM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
"Ms. X. could start living life openly and wait for the stalker to harrass her and get arrested. "
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This strikes me as the only fully rational route.
It sounds like Ms X might be (?) experiencing more pain, inconvenience, and expense in her defensive maneuverings than the offense would deliver, unhampered. Other than out-and-out murder, I doubt this stalker could do more damage to Ms X than Ms X is doing to herself in reaction to the stalking.
So I've got to agree with the poster who suggests simply letting it play out. If she acts out, arrest. If not....fine. If she expects the stalker to act out in ways too small to warrant arrest, then perhaps consider whether Ms X's defensive machinations have been appropriate to the threat level (little short of Freddy Krueger could make me go to the pains she's already gone through).
Needless to say, I don't know all the details (and might feel differently if I did), so please receive this accordingly. And I hope it all resolves okay in the end.
posted by Quisp Lover at 12:53 PM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]
I am neither victim-blaming nor suggesting it not be taken seriously. I'm suggesting a rational risk/cost assessment. As I observed myself, we aren't aware of risk details. But we are aware of cost to the victim of her own strategies, and that cost has already been, to any sane eye, huge.
Sorry about your edge case experience, but violence is a risk in many realms of life, yet that's not a reason not to leave our houses. Mere possibility of such an outcome, IMO, is not worth throwing lives away. Personally, I'd rather risk even a strong chance of violence than endure such confinement. But mileage varies, of course. And your concern that the poster's friend will abandon course, mindlessly and imprudently, on the basis of a message board posting (which itself concedes that it's observed in a vacuum) seems rather silly.
posted by Quisp Lover at 2:08 PM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
Sorry about your edge case experience, but violence is a risk in many realms of life, yet that's not a reason not to leave our houses. Mere possibility of such an outcome, IMO, is not worth throwing lives away. Personally, I'd rather risk even a strong chance of violence than endure such confinement. But mileage varies, of course. And your concern that the poster's friend will abandon course, mindlessly and imprudently, on the basis of a message board posting (which itself concedes that it's observed in a vacuum) seems rather silly.
posted by Quisp Lover at 2:08 PM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
I think a lot depends on your best assessment of the stalker's capacity for violence.
Can the stalker afford to move to follow X? Maybe since she's on disability she can go somewhere far away for an extended time period? In even a small city there's a good chance of running into people randomly. Heck it happens to me a few times a year at least in my city of millions.
posted by spitbull at 2:12 PM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
Can the stalker afford to move to follow X? Maybe since she's on disability she can go somewhere far away for an extended time period? In even a small city there's a good chance of running into people randomly. Heck it happens to me a few times a year at least in my city of millions.
posted by spitbull at 2:12 PM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
Also I think most of hacker grade stuff is probably misplaced effort unless you know the stalker has significant tech skills that would not be all that common for her age and gender.
posted by spitbull at 2:27 PM on December 31, 2014
posted by spitbull at 2:27 PM on December 31, 2014
Given that she is on disability and has already cut off so much of her life, at least in part to deal with the stalker, I will second moving really far away, someplace the stalker would never think she was or would be unlikely to be willing/able to go.
Also, yes, get a virtual mail service. You can get a mailing address that is nowhere near where she actually lives and check mail online. That can have an upside for a disabled person by itself and starts at as little as $15/month (less than a physical mailbox with places like Mailboxes Etc.).
I will suggest she consider giving up her car. If you have no car, you don't have to register the title with the DMV, you don't have to arrange insurance for it, you have no license plate. Give up the car and move someplace with good public transit and good walkability. Having no car will lower her information profile.
Get a super cheap cell phone with no contract. I will recommend a Tracfone. If you have an online account with Tracfone, you can pitch your phone at will, buy a new one and readily activate the new one with a new number without updating other info with them. Buy a super cheap phone and keep the bare minimum of minutes on it. Change phones and phone numbers periodically.
I would much, much rather start over some place far away than stay relatively local and keep trying to hide. The odds are much better that she can have a full life that way and not have to live in hiding, which is very stressful to keep up. Also, it seems to me that if this is being documented and she moves far away and the stalker follows here to Distant Place, it might get a bit easier to convince the police that, no, really, this lady is a whack job.
Alternately, with a virtual mail service and living on disability, she could consider becoming a bit of a gypsy and couch surfing and what not for a time. A moving target can be harder to hit than a stationary one, so to speak.
posted by Michele in California at 3:57 PM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
Also, yes, get a virtual mail service. You can get a mailing address that is nowhere near where she actually lives and check mail online. That can have an upside for a disabled person by itself and starts at as little as $15/month (less than a physical mailbox with places like Mailboxes Etc.).
I will suggest she consider giving up her car. If you have no car, you don't have to register the title with the DMV, you don't have to arrange insurance for it, you have no license plate. Give up the car and move someplace with good public transit and good walkability. Having no car will lower her information profile.
Get a super cheap cell phone with no contract. I will recommend a Tracfone. If you have an online account with Tracfone, you can pitch your phone at will, buy a new one and readily activate the new one with a new number without updating other info with them. Buy a super cheap phone and keep the bare minimum of minutes on it. Change phones and phone numbers periodically.
I would much, much rather start over some place far away than stay relatively local and keep trying to hide. The odds are much better that she can have a full life that way and not have to live in hiding, which is very stressful to keep up. Also, it seems to me that if this is being documented and she moves far away and the stalker follows here to Distant Place, it might get a bit easier to convince the police that, no, really, this lady is a whack job.
Alternately, with a virtual mail service and living on disability, she could consider becoming a bit of a gypsy and couch surfing and what not for a time. A moving target can be harder to hit than a stationary one, so to speak.
posted by Michele in California at 3:57 PM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Google "address confidentiality program" + friend's state or start here.
Programs differ on what kinds of mail can be forwarded. In my state, all first class mail is forwarded but packages, magazines and catalogs are either returned to the sender or shredded. If stalker knows where she lives and she plans to relocate, don't set it up until out of her current home.
Her real, physical address shouldn't be on record with any of the people, agencies, organizations she's involved with: including banks, doctors offices, pharmacies, Amazon, insurance companies, Medicare/Medicaid/SSDI if applicable to her disability, credit cards and credit bureaus etc.
posted by space_cookie at 4:35 PM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
Programs differ on what kinds of mail can be forwarded. In my state, all first class mail is forwarded but packages, magazines and catalogs are either returned to the sender or shredded. If stalker knows where she lives and she plans to relocate, don't set it up until out of her current home.
Her real, physical address shouldn't be on record with any of the people, agencies, organizations she's involved with: including banks, doctors offices, pharmacies, Amazon, insurance companies, Medicare/Medicaid/SSDI if applicable to her disability, credit cards and credit bureaus etc.
posted by space_cookie at 4:35 PM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]
Would it work to contact her doctor's office or other places where the stalker could be getting information about her and asking them to put a pop-up note on her file requiring that anyone who calls in about her give a password before any information is exchanged?
posted by bile and syntax at 7:15 PM on December 31, 2014
posted by bile and syntax at 7:15 PM on December 31, 2014
If the stalker really wants to find her target, she will find her target regardless of evasive maneuvers. She could stalk her mother, knowing that the two are never apart for long. She could make a friend (or buy an informant) who has access to a database in which the target's latest information is always stored. She could pay a private investigator who knows how to get into various databases.
Turn the tables on her: have an investigator put a GPS tracking device on her car to see where she goes. Get an electronic map of her daily movements. If she's physically stalking the target, you will soon know and will be able to get the investigator to gather evidence to take to the police. Pictures of her sitting in a car near the target's home, for instance. If she's not physically stalking the target, the target will be happy, right? Or is there also some sort of electronic stalking going on?
posted by pracowity at 7:23 AM on January 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
Turn the tables on her: have an investigator put a GPS tracking device on her car to see where she goes. Get an electronic map of her daily movements. If she's physically stalking the target, you will soon know and will be able to get the investigator to gather evidence to take to the police. Pictures of her sitting in a car near the target's home, for instance. If she's not physically stalking the target, the target will be happy, right? Or is there also some sort of electronic stalking going on?
posted by pracowity at 7:23 AM on January 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
Statements above that the technology/hacker things are unlikely due to the age and gender are ageist and, more importantly, they are naive. I'm a 54 year old female and I work as a waitress, and yet nothing mentioned here was new to me.
I was recently checking out a guy's profile on OK Cupid, and with just some simple Googling, I found his business name, his real name, where he went to college, and an interview he did on the local news (1000+ miles from my city). I had never even communicated with this person. He works in the technology aspect of detective investigations, so he presumably knows how to keep his info private. All this is to say that it's just not that difficult to find someone.
A suggestion I made in a post with a similar question is to change your name legally. It can be kept out of public records. Only your friend will be able to decide if she needs to take this drastic of a step.
posted by MexicanYenta at 6:59 AM on January 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
I was recently checking out a guy's profile on OK Cupid, and with just some simple Googling, I found his business name, his real name, where he went to college, and an interview he did on the local news (1000+ miles from my city). I had never even communicated with this person. He works in the technology aspect of detective investigations, so he presumably knows how to keep his info private. All this is to say that it's just not that difficult to find someone.
A suggestion I made in a post with a similar question is to change your name legally. It can be kept out of public records. Only your friend will be able to decide if she needs to take this drastic of a step.
posted by MexicanYenta at 6:59 AM on January 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Does Ms. X have an amazon wishlist? If so, that lists her city and state as well - which may help narrow the search for the address.
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 6:59 AM on December 31, 2014 [2 favorites]