Cheating wife

November 3, 2005 8:48 PM

I believe my wife is cheating on me. I have confronted her and she's denied it. How can I catch her?

I have access to cell phone bill (although she has a different work phone that I do not have access to), financial records but her email accounts now have passwords.

She works in an office where she has quite a bit of freedom and could easily disappear every day for a few hours. This also seems to rule out checking mileage on the car.

A little more background: married about 10 yrs, 1 child, she has no interest in counseling.

I am looking for ways to determine who/what/when/where the affair is taking place without her knowing that I am looking. Please do not recommend anything illegal, although anecdotes about how you caught the cheater (or were caught yourself!) would be helpful.

posted by dking to human relations (57 comments total)

Why do you expect cheating in the first place?
posted by konolia at 8:49 PM on November 3, 2005

That should be suspect, sorry.
posted by konolia at 8:50 PM on November 3, 2005

I'd think that the trust in your marriage would be worth a private investigator, if you're that concerned.

However, if you -are- that concerned it's probably time to end the marriage anyway.
posted by Kickstart70 at 8:53 PM on November 3, 2005

This may be out of the scope of your question, but you might consider trusting her. The risk of this type of investigation into her personal life is the very real possibility that you'll drive her away, even if she isn't cheating.

As konolia asks, why *are* you so convinced she's cheating?
posted by BackwardsCity at 8:55 PM on November 3, 2005

So what's up with the financial records? Any notable mystery expenditures? A hotel charge would be a pretty good giveaway.
posted by tetsuo at 9:12 PM on November 3, 2005

I haven't been in this situation, but I feel I should at least bring this up:

If your situation is at it seems, namely that: you think your wife is cheating on you, she denies it, but you already don't trust her, then...

are you SURE you want to catch her in the act? I mean, maybe you THINK you do, but is it something you'd really like to have concrete evidence of in your possession? People do crazy things when the suspected becomes the known.

but hey, maybe you just want something for the divorce.

If that's the case, then a private investigator.
posted by shmegegge at 9:16 PM on November 3, 2005

Send an email pretending to be "you know who" ("Hey, it's me, I'm writing from my new Hotmail address and I wanted to talk about our affair") and see if she goes for it.

/amoral advice
posted by johngoren at 9:17 PM on November 3, 2005

It sounds like you believe your suspicions, and it sounds like your marriage is probably headed for divorce. Don't try to investigate yourself; hire a private investigator. When the time comes to appear in court -- and situations such as the one you paint usually do -- professional documentation will probably be useful; and depending on your financial circumstances, the investment may end up paying for itself.

For the record, I don't advocate divorce. But I also don't like trying to second-guess AskMe questions, and you seem certain of the relevant facts -- in which case I honestly believe your next, best course of action is to hire a professional.
posted by cribcage at 9:18 PM on November 3, 2005

I've heard of sending flowers (as if you were her lover), having the delivery guy notify you immediately (before she can contact him), and then calling and seeing if she mentions it. If no...
posted by mhuckaba at 9:19 PM on November 3, 2005

I've been through this, and it's very painful. I suspected it for a while, and snuck around trying to find proof. I eventually found it, and it hurt much more to know than I thought it would. I think you need to find out for yourself what you are going to do if you find out she's cheating. I know this isn't exactly the kind of advice you're looking for but I recommend some therapy for yourself, no matter what your wife is doing.

As someone who's been cheated on, I find myself thinking those thoughts with my wife some times. I really don't think she's cheating on me but some times I wonder. It's really very hard to know for sure without doing some investigation.

I also surprised myself that when I found out for sure, after some soul searching (and professional help) I wanted to try to work things out. Prior to that,when I just suspected, I wanted to break out. Don't burn any bridges.

There are lots of ways you can snoop on your wife. If she finds out she will be (rightfully) upset. If she's not cheating, you're in trouble. If she is, and you still want to stay together, you're probably still in trouble. The fact that you suspected her is not going to clear your name, and now you have two people who both distrust each other.
posted by RustyBrooks at 9:20 PM on November 3, 2005

Sounds to me like you are rapidly approaching a loveless marriage without any real degree of trust.

There can be perfectly stable, happy marriages with infidelity. There can also be instable, unhappy marriages without it. My advice would be to stop looking at infidelity as the cause of your problems. Rather, look at the potential of it as as a symptom of a damaged relationship... probably one that has somehow changed over time.

Assume for a second that she isn't having an affair, then ask yourself this question -- are you so upset with how things are that you would consider a divorce, even though you have a kid together?

If you would still want a divorce even if she is being faithful, then go ahead. Get a divorce. This goes double if you and your wife are obviously unhappy or argumentative around your kid. Parents that hate each other but "stay together for the sake of the children" aren't doing anyone any favors.

If you would not want a divorce if she was faithful, however, I strongly advise you to not go there. Stop being suspicious. Stop spying on her. Instead, treat her wonderfully, bring her a cup of tea/coffee for no reason, be affectionate and caring -- lots of cuddles, spontaneous neck and back rubs -- do simple, romantic things again, reestablish a "date night" every week when you two go off and do something to escape the house for yourself. Hire a babysitter and rent a jacuzzi suite. Go for a walk in a forest. Have a picnic. Fly a kite in the park together. Go out for walks with her. Just don't pressure her for sex or be openly jealous.

If that doesn't help after three months or so and you're still miserable about it, then I suggest you really think about why that is the case, take her somewhere where you feel you can talk to her in the most calm, relaxed manner possible, and tell her openly that you feel hurt, alone, ignored, etc. and that it sometimes makes you feel jealous, because even though she may or may not be having an affair, she's obviously not making your relationship enough of a priority for your happiness right now.
posted by insomnia_lj at 9:28 PM on November 3, 2005

I caught my father cheating on my mother by checking the history and cache. he had recieved online cards from his gal and knew my mom was too stupid to know how to find anything like that. he always underestimated me. 'View Offline' will show you all sorts of things.
posted by nadawi at 9:35 PM on November 3, 2005 [1 favorite]

While I don't recommend the course of action, a friend of mine used Perfect Keylogger to gather evidence of his wife's misdeeds.

It worked well for him.
posted by madajb at 9:40 PM on November 3, 2005

ok...why I think she is cheating. Access to the cell phone bill showed that she called a guy 3-5 a week (or he called her). This person also attended a conference with her. The cell bill showed that she called him at 1:50 AM and again at 4:30 AM during the conference (amonge other times).

Several weeks later, his name popped up on IM while I was in the room. She refused to talk to him. Her IM address has no connection to her work/name. She could offer no reason how he would know her IM address except through classmates.com.

She now forwards all her cell phone calls to her work phone, has deleted the chat from her computer, refuses to listen to her voice mails around me, hangs up on incoming calls, uses text messaging when she thinks I am not looking...and that's all I can think of right now.

I confronted her with the info I had and she was very upset that I had looked at the cell phone bill and promptly fowarded her calls to her work phone--which, just show up as calls to her work phone on the bill.

Several of you mention a private investigator...any advice about how to find one/cost?
posted by dking at 9:43 PM on November 3, 2005

Be careful about choosing to look for signs of adultery. You may find what you are looking for, even if it isn't really there.

Like Rusty Brooks, I suspected for a while. Finding out for sure was much more painful than I anticipated, even after having suspected for a while. If the relationship is over for you, then it's over. If you want to fix it, then work on that. But catching her seems a misdirection of emotional energy.
posted by ambrosia at 9:45 PM on November 3, 2005

WOW. What insomnia_lj said in spades. He nailed it.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:51 PM on November 3, 2005

Eh. No, not what insomnia_lj said. You have a right to the truth. She owes you that much. And if she won't tell you the truth, then you'll have to rely on your own smarts to get what you deserve.

The only way to be 100% sure is to catch her in the act. This is generally the way PIs work. What you want to do is establish your wife's schedule. If she is disappearing during the work day, consider calling the office and establishing whether she's there or not. You have to be subtle about this. If you can figure out when she arrives to work, when she goes on lunch, and when she leaves work you're 90% there. It's just a matter of looking for irregularities in the schedule.

I've never been married so I can't really speak from personal experience, but I've always strongly held the opinion that if you have to ask... In this light, you may consider just playing the trump card. Tell your wife you know she's cheating, you have evidence (though you don't), and you want a divorce. This is a huge risk so carefully consider the consequences. Either she'll fight and try to persuade you against such a drastic measure or she'll accept it. Either way, it brings the question of your marriage to a head. If your wife isn't willing to fight for your marriage then the question's already been settled, regardless of whether she's cheating.
posted by nixerman at 10:08 PM on November 3, 2005

Do you know any police officers? Do you know someone who does? Do you know any family lawyers? Do you know someone who would? Think about the people who would associate with private investigators, and ask for recommendations.

Ask around. I've found plenty of good servicemen through the Yellow Pages (though never a P.I.), but personal recommendations are always worth trying.
posted by cribcage at 10:34 PM on November 3, 2005

Consider that she may not have cheated on you sexually but is probably cheating on you emotionally. Certainly, the IM/phone/email signs suggest something is being hidden from you.

The advice I've always heard for these situations: Run, don't walk, to a lawyer. Pre-emptively protect assets by emptying joint accounts and closing joint credit cards. Start thinking about a physical escape plan -- what to take, where to live. Meanwhile, pull back on the accusations, and let your PI and lawyer take care of what needs to be taken care of there.

No kids? Good. That part's horrible.

I wouldn't have posted this in the open.
posted by dhartung at 10:36 PM on November 3, 2005

Now that you've clarified, it's worth noting that, by confronting her as you've done, you may only be making a P.I.'s future job more difficult.

Don't try to do this yourself. If you're contemplating divorce (or you think she may be), this is a serious issue. Hire a professional.
posted by cribcage at 10:40 PM on November 3, 2005

If that doesn't help after three months or so and you're still miserable about it, then I suggest you really think about why that is the case

For some people infidelity is a big, big thing. Yes, dking can try doing all sorts of nice things for his wife and whatnot, but at the end of the three months, she still might be fucking some guy that she works with. And if he's stopped spying, then there's no way he'd ever know for sure.

Why does the wife get a free pass to cheat?
posted by 23skidoo at 10:43 PM on November 3, 2005

No, not what insomnia_lj said—but that's because insomnia didn't answer the question you asked. I like the answer, I just don't know if it should be here.

If you can afford it, I'd just hire a PI. I can't imagine that this isn't what they do 90% of time when they're not process serving or something. They'll tell you what you need to know and you don't have to have the possibility of an awkward situation of discovering something, say, in the presence of your wife where you won't have time to really thinks things through. My intuition tells me that if you really want to know, it shouldn't be you that does the looking.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:43 PM on November 3, 2005

Alternatively, hire a divorce attorney who will handle hiring the private investigator. That will be more expensive, but if you're confident divorce will be the end result...
posted by cribcage at 10:46 PM on November 3, 2005

I'm not saying that he doesn't have the right to pursue the truth. I'm saying that pursuing it won't help him unless he wants a divorce... because the outcome of either finding out or of making the trust chasm in this relationship even wider is more likely than not going to push things towards that outcome.

If divorce with proof of adultery will supposedly cause her to change her unrepentant behavior, then why wouldn't divorce without any proof do the same? It's entirely possible nothing happened... or that the affair already ended, for that matter.

I would say that if he would consider a divorce considering the current situation anyway, then he should get one... only then, when he is in a state where adultery could be a major factor in the outcome of the divorce, (such as possibly with custody of their kid) would I consider hiring a private investigator. Just because they're "private" doesn't mean that it won't be noticed.

I am married. My wife had an affair. We both did, infact. We're still married... and we've been together for fifteen years now. It's been worth it... but then again, both of our affairs were little more than one night stands.

Being uncontrollably jealous, however, is a great way to throw your partner into the arms of someone else permanently. Even those who are guilty of something don't like or feel that they deserve to be spied upon, especially in the home.
posted by insomnia_lj at 10:54 PM on November 3, 2005

Seems like pretty sound advice thus far. Now, and I'm being completely serious, have you ever heard of this?

Not sure if it's up your alley. But not sure it isn't, so let's cover all the bases. And they even get a PI for you!
posted by SuperNova at 11:15 PM on November 3, 2005

No, dhartung, they DO have a kid.

Otherwise, having been there, I second dhartung's advice. Run, don't walk to a lawyer.

Cheating? That can be painful. But if matters go on to a resulting divorce that can be far, far worse. While I hope it never happens to you, you do NOT want to be unprepared if her first overt action is that she and your child are gone. It's just horrible to have to think about someone you've loved and trusted for years in that way, and I wish you the best in working things out, don't be blind to the possibilities
posted by tyllwin at 11:27 PM on November 3, 2005

Even those who are guilty of something don't like or feel that they deserve to be spied upon, especially in the home.

Well, that's too bad. If she is guilty of stepping out on her husband, she must accept the consequences of the husband doing what he has to do to protect him and the child. What's with the not wanting to rattle any cages of spouses who are cheating? If there are signs and she is not taking the time to rationally discuss it with her husband and allay any fears he might have - as far as I am concerned, he has every right to do whatever is necessary to find out what is going on. He owes that to himself and the child. (It's not like he didn't give her an opportunity to explain.) Blindly turning away because something might not be as it seems, is a poor reason to kick back and be played the chump. Seeing calls between my wife and another man at 1:50 and 4:30 in the morning would provoke some questions. Her not liking to provide answers and an explanation would be too bad, but some kind of explanation would be expected. In this case, simply falling back on anger at him for looking at the bill seems to be a diversionary tactic.

I support those who believe a PI makes a lot of sense in this situation. Good luck.....

-
posted by Independent Scholarship at 11:28 PM on November 3, 2005

I should perhaps mention that both my wife and I have an open relationship today. I was honest to her about my affair, after which I found out about hers. We both suspected each other, but neither of us were sure. The suspicion, however, was a major factor in our affairs.

We were horribly jealous at times, of course, but we got over it and grew closer as a result, to the point that we can now openly talk about our interests in others, and even pursue them, so long as we have approval. Polyamory and all that...

I personally feel that jealousy is for adults what being bad with sharing is for kids. Both are emotions that can be worked through and dealt with. It's especially easy when you're obviously loved and cared for by your partner, and it's obvious that they value having a permanent relationship with them. That said, I don't recommend polyamory for everyone. If it's for you, you may eventually find your way there one day. If, however, you're like the great majority for who it is not acceptable, then by all means, try to live a monogamous lifestyle... even though there's about a 60% chance you'll fail at it, cheat, and lie.

If you step back a bit, polyamory looks a lot like serial monogamy, except that when it works, there's no need to cheat, lie, or throw away otherwise good relationships.
posted by insomnia_lj at 11:29 PM on November 3, 2005

"If she is guilty of stepping out on her husband, she must accept the consequences of the husband doing what he has to do to protect him and the child."

This leads directly to an assumption of guilt, with divorce being used as a kind of "first strike" technique.

Frankly, it sounds like she probably does have something to hide, but the only answers I see people suggesting here are, essentially, "get a divorce", regardless of whether she just had a one-time fling, is doing a bit of cybering, or whether, perhaps, there are things going on in dking's relationship that need to be fixed.

No offense to dking, but how do we know that he hasn't ever had an affair, or that he's never done a bit of inappropriate flirting? If so, how do we know she doesn't know or suspect, and that it has hurt their relationship? How do we know that he is affectionate and loving to his wife? How do we know whether he does his share of the housework and watches the kid, or whether he takes the time to take a shower and brush his teeth regularly, or whether he "gets her in the mood" before he makes it obvious he wants sex? We don't.

Nobody's perfect. That in mind, dking doesn't definitely know she's cheated on him, or the extent of her deception. That's why I think he needs to seriously look at the relationship with a presumption of innocence, and decide whether it's worth trying to save.

Trying to save a marriage by calling a P.I. is pretty unlikely. It's only marginally better than trying to save it by calling a lawyer. Actually making sure you're treating your wife well and rebuilding trust is much more likely to be successful.

But again... it depends on whether he thinks the marriage is worth saving.
posted by insomnia_lj at 11:55 PM on November 3, 2005

Why don't you just try to talk about it with her? Let her know you suspect her and how you feel in a frank and honest way without sounding accusatory. Even if she denies it at least she will know how this is affecting you, which is something.

Also, maybe you should look at this from a different perspective. Instead of trying to prove that she is cheating on you, shouldn't you be trying to prove that she's NOT cheating on you? If you analyze her financial records and phone bills looking for evidence of an affair, you will easily find it, but that doesn't mean she's having one. This could very well be a series of coincidences, or you could be right, but the point is that if you set out to find any shred of evidence to prove a presupposition then you aren't really proving anything at all. ...And you've made the situation worse by alienating your wife and coming across as jealous. Look at it like a criminal investigation, when the police operate this way (and sometimes they do unfortunately) then they end up putting just as many innocents behind bars as those who are guilty.
posted by deafweatherman at 12:19 AM on November 4, 2005

You don't need to hire anybody, you already know. Late night calls, chats and texts, forwarded phones...who forwards their cell phone to work? Bottom line, she's doing wrong. There is no presumption of innocence in a relationship.

If I were you, I'd decide whether I want to stay, even with the worst I could find out.

If yes, I'd demand to see all records, and to know everything about the affair and that it stop now.

If no, time to see a lawyer.

Even if my answer was yes, I'd still see a lawyer in case her answer was no. Like Tyllwin said.

Why do I say this? Because I was in your wife's shoes, and that's what my girlfriend did. It worked.
posted by atchafalaya at 3:25 AM on November 4, 2005

a) lawyer
b) private investigator
c) let the chips fall where they may
d) accept consequences
e) take appropiate action, as you see fit
posted by willmize at 3:53 AM on November 4, 2005

It looks like no one's seized on what really struck me: she's not interested in counseling. Cheating or not, she doesn't want to improve the marriage. To my mind, that means it's all over but the crying and paperwork. It's in dking's best interests to start talking to a lawyer NOW and to get a PI since if she is cheating, having proof of it would help his case immensely.
posted by kimota at 4:24 AM on November 4, 2005

What do you want from this? Do you want to bring your relationship closer or drive it further apart?

There is clearly something suspicious going on, but you don't really have any hard evidence. If you push her she will probably run and that's going to drive your relationship further apart. Investigating will probably do that as well.

If you want to bring your relationship closer you probably want to assume one condition or the other and learn how to develop open communication before communicating about that issue in particular.

If you want to drive your relationship further apart, well, dive right in. It won't be long.

If you just want to know for the sake of knowing, think about this: there are some things that are worth knowing and some things that aren't. There are some things that can be known an some things that can't. You need to decide whether the cost is worth it.
posted by plinth at 5:10 AM on November 4, 2005

* The fact that she's not interested in counseling does not mean the marraige is over. People who cheat have a pretty serious case of cognitive dissonance most of the time. Many of them may still feel much love and affection for the one being cheated on. They seperate the cheating from themselves and their lives.

* You most certainly do NOT WANT TO CATCH HER IN THE ACT. Just thinking about it is probably going to be bad enough.

* I felt like a miserable shithole for spying on my girlfriend, even when I was vindicated. I wish, in retrospect, that I could have left the whole thing blameless.

* There are some really great books about adultery out there. What was the one I read called... something like "Uncoupling"? Anyway, reading this book make me realize how *universal* my situation was. THe whole thing played out in such a prescripted manner. This was what made me finally realize that going to a therapist might help me: I was not the unique flower I thought I was -- if a book could see that far into me without ever having met me, a therapist would be able to, also.
posted by RustyBrooks at 5:49 AM on November 4, 2005

"There is no presumption of innocence in a relationship."

Wow. That sounds like a recipe for a lifetime of misery.
posted by Irontom at 5:58 AM on November 4, 2005

From your description of what happened, I thought of a different scenario. Perhaps, at this conference, she did have some sort of emotional or physical "affair" with this person, and immediately regretted it. Now, he is attempting to escalate the relationship and she is trying to avoid him because she does not want to have an affair. And, perhaps she hopes that she can simply bury this in the past, and not tell you in order to avoid hurting you, because it means nothing to her.

Also, regarding custody of children in a divorce: courts do not consider spousal wrongdoing that does not directly affect the child. The only factors that relate to custody relate strictly to the child's best interests.
posted by MrZero at 6:16 AM on November 4, 2005

GPS Car tracker works well, put it with the sparetire
posted by tke248 at 7:39 AM on November 4, 2005

Courts may, however, consider spousal wrongdoing when dividing up poor dking's possessions.

I support thse use of a PI. Someone close to me (really, not me, I've never been married) had to resort to one. He got his proof, and she did not have the opportunity to "take half" -- and believe me, she tried.
posted by twiggy at 7:39 AM on November 4, 2005

"Perhaps . . . she did have some sort of emotional or physical "affair" with this person, and immediately regretted it."

Quite possible. Alternately, changing relationships may not be feasible for her, within the context of the rest of her (or her lover's...) life and professional career. Office affairs are generally frowned upon, and sometimes even against corporate policy. They are hard to make into a real relationship without messy divorces and at least one of those involved having to get a new job.

That said, I've gotten calls from bosses/co-workers in the middle of the night before, and have used chat apps to stay in touch with coworkers, both at work and at home. I've also worked at conventions where we would be expected to "work the floor" most of the day, schmooze potential customers until midnight, and plan for the next day / put out fires at god awful times in the middle of the night so we could be ready to do it all again the next day. (i.e. Comdex.)

I'm not saying that she's blameless, or even that it's particularly likely, but it is possible.

A few questions worth asking...
1> How long ago was this convention?

2> How has the level and frequency of sexual and emotional intimacy changed in the course of the relationship, especially in the months before the convention as opposed to after the convention?

3> How were things between the two of them after the convention but before his first accusations? What led dking to suspect an affair in the first place? What was the first tip-off? A single chat window, a close (and possibly nosy) examination of her cell phone bill ... or perhaps some noticeable changes in behavior on her part?

4> To what degree is she still an active participant in the marriage?

5> If she doesn't have any reason to maintain the relationship, then why hasn't she left yet?

6> Have there been other times in the relationship where dking has felt jealous or suspicious about her behavior, and has felt the need to snoop on her? In other words, could the problem here be the jealousy, and not her actions... or could jealousy in the relationship possibly be encouraging further problems?

*Whistles a little tune*
posted by insomnia_lj at 7:56 AM on November 4, 2005

I think Insomnia_lj's first comment was spot on. If your concern is about saving the relationship work on that rather than exposing her infidelities. If on the other hand its over in your mind and you are already ready to file for divorce, contact a lawyer. Your lawyer can give you recommendations as to whether a PI can help and if so who. I wouldn't go off performing rash acts like closing out accounts etc. without first talking to a lawyer.
posted by caddis at 7:58 AM on November 4, 2005

You don't need to hire anybody, you already know. Late night calls, chats and texts, forwarded phones...who forwards their cell phone to work? Bottom line, she's doing wrong.

Yeah, I don't think there's much doubt about what's going on here. I was in a similar situation once, but I got "lucky"—I overheard a conversation I wasn't meant to (no, I wasn't eavesdropping, she thought I wasn't home and spoke loudly) and was able to get a confession. It hurt like hell, but I was glad to know for sure; I've always been a fan of the truth, however much it hurts. If I were you, I'd start preparing yourself for the inevitable divorce, both mentally and practically (start a separate bank account pronto).

insomnialj, you've propagandized for polyamory and open relationships before; I understand that it works for you, and that's great, but you must realize that very, very few people are likely to follow you down that path, so it's probably not very useful advice.
posted by languagehat at 7:59 AM on November 4, 2005

I have a friend who went through this situation about a year ago (his blog - Read October of last year through December to see how he dealt with this). The advice I'd give to you is this:

1. Get yourself a therapist now. You are going to be going through a lot in the next few months and a therapist will help you deal with a lot of strong feelings.

2. Find a good lawyer. A P.I. may tell you what your wife is really doing but a good lawyer will tell you that a P.I. isn't really worth the cost and can actually hurt your case.

3. Set boundaries with your wife. You two are married and have a kid so you have the right to certain expectations. Tell your wife what is not acceptable to you and if she violates it then tell her the consequences.

4. If you think you are heading for divorce and want to get custody then contact some of the Father's Rights groups ont he web. They will tell you what you need to do to get custody.

Good luck.
posted by DragonBoy at 8:00 AM on November 4, 2005

You'll need those passwords.

I recommend installing a keylogger, either a software version like the one mentioned above, or a hardware keylogger that plugs inline with your keyboard.

Then take a look at her inbox, and pay particular attention to the deleted folder--if she thinks you're on to her, she'll likely delete all old correspondences.

Also, I'd recommend trying to find an undelete program, like Norton Unerase, then scour your hard drive for files that she's already deleted and removed from the Recycle Bin.

Unless you plan on taking a lot of time off work, you'll need to hire a PI to follow her around.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 8:21 AM on November 4, 2005

DragonBoy is giving you great advice. Infidelity can really do a number on your mental health. A therapist is probably the only person you can talk through you feelings with in an honest manner.

Also, if it does come to divorce, make sure that you seek custody immediately.
posted by missmerrymack at 8:38 AM on November 4, 2005

The one thing that strikes me about all this is that if the wife isn't actually cheating, all of the actions dking might take to determine that (PIs, keyloggers, etc) will lead to estrangement and divorce anyhow. I don't see any possibility for a happy outcome, no matter the facts.
posted by adamrice at 9:11 AM on November 4, 2005

That's why I think insomnia is on the money: this relationship is a shipwreck. Might was well go immediately to the lawyer and begin planning the divorce. If they decide they are going to attempt to make another go of it, it's easy enough to put the lawyer on-hold; otherwise it's best that our question-asker start covering his ass properly starting now.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:28 AM on November 4, 2005

The one thing that strikes me about all this is that if the wife isn't actually cheating, all of the actions dking might take to determine that (PIs, keyloggers, etc) will lead to estrangement and divorce anyhow.

Only if she finds out.
posted by kindall at 9:32 AM on November 4, 2005

Only if she finds out.

That's what people think before they have affairs. It's wrong thinking in both instances.
posted by caddis at 10:22 AM on November 4, 2005

It would, I think, be a good idea to make a full copy of the hard drive right now. You are about to actively investigate your wife. Your behaviour wil change. She may note this and start eliminating the trail of evidence, including deleting files.

If you make a copy of her hard drive now, you have a snapshot of today's data, before she gets suspicious or your activities.

A keylogger should be perfectly legal for you to use, as well, given that you have joint ownership of the computer upon which you will install it.

You could leave the marriage at any time. You don't need evidence. If you're not happy and she doesn't want to work on the relationship, it is over when you decide it's over. What you are doing now is protecting your assets, and you will protect those assets by finding evidence that this is not a no-fault divorce.
posted by solid-one-love at 10:59 AM on November 4, 2005

See a therapist for yourself. Take care of your own psyche. You're going through a terribly tough situation.

And also:

When my husband and I were having problems getting along, he didn't want to go to therapy. Turns out it was because he didn't know how counseling worked, thought that anyone I chose would side with me, etc. Your wife's not wanting counseling doesn't prove anything.

You've got enough problems without trying to read her mind.
posted by wryly at 11:37 AM on November 4, 2005

Maybe the late-night calls during the conference happened because she'd been out late drinking with her co-workers, and this other person is a friend who was just making sure she got back to her room safely? And maybe that person is also a part-time caterer, and your wife is planning a big surprise birthday party for you? Or perhaps that person has a super-cool 1965 Mustang convertible that they're trying to sell, and your wife is secretly arranging to buy it for you?
posted by spilon at 11:59 AM on November 4, 2005

Or perhaps that person has a super-cool 1965 Mustang convertible that they're trying to sell, and your wife is secretly arranging to buy it for you?

Or maybe he's a long-lost brother, former dictator of El Maracha, on the run from the U.N.'s Human Rights Commission for crimes against humanity. Get real.

I think, be a good idea to make a full copy of the hard drive right now.

No, what you need to do is run an un-erase program first, then copy all the files (including un-erased files) to a new HD. Copying a HD is only going to duplicate files not marked as deleted, which may not do you any good if she's already deleted things. But provided no new information has been recorded over the "deleted" data, you should be able to recover a good deal of deleted files.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:09 PM on November 4, 2005

The fact that she called the guy at odd hours (while they were at a conference together) does kind of suggest that, well, they weren't together. Y'know? I mean, if I were going to secretly fool around with a co-worker while we're safely at a conference, far from prying eyes, I'd be fooling around with the person, not calling them on my cellphone.

Eh. Unlike the other recent thread where the person saw actual, concrete proof that her partner was seeking to hook up with other parties, you've just got some suspicious-seeming, shifty-looking, circumstantial evidence. She might be cheating and doing a very bad job of looking innocent, as you suspect; or, she might be going to all these lengths because she thinks your jealousy is unreasonable and she doesn't want to deal with it.

I agree with wryly: Get some therapy for yourself, even though you may think it's not fair because you're not the one who's cheating, etc. Let your wife know that you're doing this; don't try to guilt or force her into going with you, just let her know you're doing it and why. It's possible that if she sees that you're willing to work on the marriage by getting counseling yourself, that she'll join you, although you shouldn't hope for or expect this. Do it for yourself.

I would suggest spending some time in therapy before (or better yet, instead of) engaging in any CatchTheCheater tactics. Prepare yourself for the possibility of divorce, including consulting a lawyer, especially since you're so very sure that your wife is cheating. Therapy will help you and your child deal with all this.

Good luck to you.
posted by Gator at 12:21 PM on November 4, 2005

There is more good advice in this old thread.

And I'm sorry, but with that laundry list of behavior, it is naive to think it's not an affair. When you told her about your concerns, did she react with worry that the man she loves and married feels so alienated from her that he doubts her fidelity? That you two have grown so far apart that you could be having these thoughts? No, she made her behavior even more alienating and suspicious, and threw the blame back at you for looking at the cell phone bill. This is classic cheater behavior -- deny deny deny, and then deflect, deflect, deflect. It's insulting, and I feel awful for you. Good luck, and I'm sorry.
posted by onlyconnect at 2:39 PM on November 4, 2005

Wow, thank you all for the answers. I've got some soul searching to do. I could've marked 20 of these as the best answer but I will think and reread these until I decide which way to go.
posted by dking at 4:12 PM on November 4, 2005

so, what happened??
posted by nadawi at 11:04 AM on November 21, 2005