Mom, I'm breaking up with you.
August 26, 2013 9:59 PM Subscribe
I grew up in an abusive household, and severed ties with my abusive father after moving out. Over the years, I cut off more of the family because they didn't understand why I couldn't forgive and make up with my father. (They also had their own drama). But I've staying in touch with my mother, though at arm's length. I'm now seeing she wasn't the "good guy" in all this, or maybe a lifetime of being in a terrible relationship made her unbearable. I've made the decision I don't want her in my life, but I'm not sure what the best way to make it happen.
My father was physically and mentally abusive, and early in my adulthood, I realized I didn't need to talk to him anymore, and in fact, my life was better without him. I firmly and clearly told him he was in no way welcome in my life. The problem I began to encounter was as I got older and developed normal, healthy adult relationships, I realized how fucked up the rest of the family was (my dad was an alcoholic who hit us, HIS father was the same, my mom's side has their own issues, which is probably why all the women are married to abusive men). And because misery loves company, I realized much of my family on both sides created and even thrived on emotionally toxic situations, so I eventually stopped talking to them. The few that weren't were collateral damage because I wasn't close to them and they were a direct line into the crazy.
My mother though, I kept in touch with, even though I kept her at arms length. My childhood memories had painted her as both the savior and the victim along with me. So it only made sense I'd keep her in my family. But there were problems. She didn't respect my wishes, she harangued me to reconcile with my father, and guilt-tripped me about not being closer with my sister. She didn't respect boundaries I set, and she used me as the unwilling shoulder she cried on when she wanted to complain about my father (but never actually took action to better her situation). But most of all, she constantly told me how I was doing everything wrong. It did not matter how successful I was or how much was going right in my life or how much better my life was going than the rest of anyone in my family.
But she was my mom, you know, and so I continued to keep her in my life. I would reinforce boundaries, point out where she really had no idea what she was talking about, and tell her to take her criticisms elsewhere. Sometimes I'd not speak to her for months on end after a particularly bad confrontation.
But then I got sick. I had to stop working, and had to deal my health. I didn't really even want to tell her, because I didn't want her barging into my life, but felt a sense of guilt not doing it, so I did. This unleashed the monster, and I started seeing things with her in a new light. It was if knowing I was weak, she could get years of "mothering" and agenda through. The criticisms increased; as did the pressure to reconcile with the family. She blamed me for my illness, saying I was not taking care of myself, even as far as repeatedly harping ridiculously that I must not be taking the right vitamins or I wouldn't be sick. She took it as an opportunity to tell me how everything I had done was wrong both currently and in my past, attempting to wipe away all my achievements. Keeping her at arms length all these years, she really was out of the loop and had no actual idea what my life was or how good it was, but that didn't matter. She'd bring family over to the house I didn't want to see, she'd ignore requests to call or email first. She'd call at insanely early hours even after explaining how I have trouble with sleep and she shouldn't call until the afternoon.
But perhaps ironically, she didn't actually help in ways that mattered. When I asked for her help to clean the house because I couldn't, she'd say she would but then wouldn't show up. When I asked for help with teaching my husband to cook, she'd come over, launch into her tirades about how I'm sick because I wasn't eating the right foods or wouldn't see the right "doctors" (she's big into woo medicine and practioners), and then have to leave before actually helping. Or she'd offer to help clean if she could bring said family member over that I expressly said I didn't want to see.
Being ill, I didn't have my normal set of defenses. And it wasn't a torrent of terrible behavior at first. It started as small things she'd say when she was over to "help." But it kept escalating. Eventually I had enough and told her not to call, but to email instead, not to stop over unannounced, and definitely not to bring anyone over. I'm sure all of you who've had similar situations know what happened next. For about a month, she respected my wishes, and then the old behavior resumed.
I've decided it's time I end contact with her, at least for right now so I can focus on my physical health without worrying about trying to be on the defensive from misguided motherly concern. But I'm not sure how to break off contact in a way that is going to cause the least drama. And, I don't want to hurt her. I'm sure it will, but I don't want to be anymore painful than it has to be. I don't want her to think she's a bad mom, it's way more complicated than that. But I also do not want her in my life. Not now, and maybe not ever; I don't know.
I've been thinking I would write a letter, but haven't thought of the words. Honestly, it's not high on my todo list; taking care of myself is. While I've been thinking about how to handle this, she's been calling, leaving more and more insane messages, making demands that I call her back by x. I started deleting the messages rather than dealing with the insanity.
Today though, I got a glimpse into what might happen, and this is what I want to minimize. She showed up unannounced, but I decided not to answer the door. I don't know why, I just didn't want to give her positive feedback for doing exactly what I told her not to do. She had no way of knowing I was home or at a doctor appointment or where since only one car was there and my husband has to drive me most places. But I assume she thought I was home, because she kept ringing the doorbell, then calling (presumably from her mobile), then pounding on the door, all for about 20 minutes. I have two dogs who bark like crazy, and I just let them bark because I didn't want her to know I was home. I mean, it was insane level stuff, not something a reasonable person would do. I'm not sure that not answering the door wasn't on it's own level a little messed up, but I live in a large enough house that you aren't going to know if anyone is home unless I want you to.
Now, her sister (my aunt) once broke into my home because I told her she couldn't call me at work and I had her mail at my house (the story is more complicated than that, but the short version is that she was hiding her credit card from her husband and she and my mom roped me into letting her get the mail at my house. That's before I realized I don't need to participate in the crazy.) So there is precedence in the family for this to escalate.
I know my mother doesn't think/realize she's doing anything wrong, and thinks she's helping. She thinks the criticism is how you help. Right now though, I need to take care of myself. I feel like a letter with as little detail as possible, just a "I need to take care of myself, and I can't handle your behavior right now. I'll contact you when I'm ready to talk again." will just incite more attempts to reach me. But a longer explanation will probably result in her needing to justify her actions. No word from me will likely continue to escalate her behavior as well.
I just don't know how to do it. With my father, it was easy. I told him what I told him growing up, that the abuse and the drinking were unacceptable and now I wanted him out of my life. It wasn't news, the only news was that I couldn't be bought off with gifts like my mother and my sister. But with my mother, even though our relationship has been strained, she used to be the person I came to to be "rescued" from my dad. And she doesn't think her behavior is unreasonable. I've told her numerous times that I don't want to hear how everything I do is wrong, or that it isn't some sort of requirement I follow all her unwelcome advice.
And to be honest, I also just want a clean break from the rest of the family, and she's the last link. I just don't know how to do that. I'm not in a position to move. And even if I did move (which I'd like to do down the road for other reasons), it would be across down and I really don't intend on hiding; so I'm sure my name and address will be public record somewhere.
I know some of you have gone through estrangement from various family members, and it seems like living a few states a way is part of it. How do you do it with someone in the same area? How do you minimize the drama? What strategy should I take and what blowback should I anticipate?
Two possibly relevant things;
- My husband has offered to "take the blame" and say he forbids me from seeing them. While sweet, I don't want my mother rallying the family and plotting rescue attempts. And it just feels like a bad idea. Like if I ever did decide to reconcile later on, I wouldn't want anyone in my family having a bad view of him. Plus, for an entirely selfish and probably irrelevant reason, I don't want them having the satisfaction of feeling I fucked up in the same way they all did in choosing their spouses. Yes, I do want to look down my nose at them, as petty as that is. (I realize I switched to them from just my mother; I did so because I am sure one way or another, this gets back to them. Plus, my mother is really the last link to the rest of the family.) But, on that note, he's willing to run interference with my family if there is something he can do. I don't think there is, I think it's all me, but maybe I'm missing a strategy.
- I'm in therapy, but it's part of helping me cope with chronic pain and hasn't really been touchy feel-y family stuff aside from a basic history. And I'm not sure how much I want to introduce into therapy beyond "so this is happening and it might be affecting me." because that's really not why I'm there. Plus, I'm not really feeling conflicted about this or that it's something I need to work through. I just really want a big red button that says "delete" and would love strategies to get there as easily and drama free as possible.
My father was physically and mentally abusive, and early in my adulthood, I realized I didn't need to talk to him anymore, and in fact, my life was better without him. I firmly and clearly told him he was in no way welcome in my life. The problem I began to encounter was as I got older and developed normal, healthy adult relationships, I realized how fucked up the rest of the family was (my dad was an alcoholic who hit us, HIS father was the same, my mom's side has their own issues, which is probably why all the women are married to abusive men). And because misery loves company, I realized much of my family on both sides created and even thrived on emotionally toxic situations, so I eventually stopped talking to them. The few that weren't were collateral damage because I wasn't close to them and they were a direct line into the crazy.
My mother though, I kept in touch with, even though I kept her at arms length. My childhood memories had painted her as both the savior and the victim along with me. So it only made sense I'd keep her in my family. But there were problems. She didn't respect my wishes, she harangued me to reconcile with my father, and guilt-tripped me about not being closer with my sister. She didn't respect boundaries I set, and she used me as the unwilling shoulder she cried on when she wanted to complain about my father (but never actually took action to better her situation). But most of all, she constantly told me how I was doing everything wrong. It did not matter how successful I was or how much was going right in my life or how much better my life was going than the rest of anyone in my family.
But she was my mom, you know, and so I continued to keep her in my life. I would reinforce boundaries, point out where she really had no idea what she was talking about, and tell her to take her criticisms elsewhere. Sometimes I'd not speak to her for months on end after a particularly bad confrontation.
But then I got sick. I had to stop working, and had to deal my health. I didn't really even want to tell her, because I didn't want her barging into my life, but felt a sense of guilt not doing it, so I did. This unleashed the monster, and I started seeing things with her in a new light. It was if knowing I was weak, she could get years of "mothering" and agenda through. The criticisms increased; as did the pressure to reconcile with the family. She blamed me for my illness, saying I was not taking care of myself, even as far as repeatedly harping ridiculously that I must not be taking the right vitamins or I wouldn't be sick. She took it as an opportunity to tell me how everything I had done was wrong both currently and in my past, attempting to wipe away all my achievements. Keeping her at arms length all these years, she really was out of the loop and had no actual idea what my life was or how good it was, but that didn't matter. She'd bring family over to the house I didn't want to see, she'd ignore requests to call or email first. She'd call at insanely early hours even after explaining how I have trouble with sleep and she shouldn't call until the afternoon.
But perhaps ironically, she didn't actually help in ways that mattered. When I asked for her help to clean the house because I couldn't, she'd say she would but then wouldn't show up. When I asked for help with teaching my husband to cook, she'd come over, launch into her tirades about how I'm sick because I wasn't eating the right foods or wouldn't see the right "doctors" (she's big into woo medicine and practioners), and then have to leave before actually helping. Or she'd offer to help clean if she could bring said family member over that I expressly said I didn't want to see.
Being ill, I didn't have my normal set of defenses. And it wasn't a torrent of terrible behavior at first. It started as small things she'd say when she was over to "help." But it kept escalating. Eventually I had enough and told her not to call, but to email instead, not to stop over unannounced, and definitely not to bring anyone over. I'm sure all of you who've had similar situations know what happened next. For about a month, she respected my wishes, and then the old behavior resumed.
I've decided it's time I end contact with her, at least for right now so I can focus on my physical health without worrying about trying to be on the defensive from misguided motherly concern. But I'm not sure how to break off contact in a way that is going to cause the least drama. And, I don't want to hurt her. I'm sure it will, but I don't want to be anymore painful than it has to be. I don't want her to think she's a bad mom, it's way more complicated than that. But I also do not want her in my life. Not now, and maybe not ever; I don't know.
I've been thinking I would write a letter, but haven't thought of the words. Honestly, it's not high on my todo list; taking care of myself is. While I've been thinking about how to handle this, she's been calling, leaving more and more insane messages, making demands that I call her back by x. I started deleting the messages rather than dealing with the insanity.
Today though, I got a glimpse into what might happen, and this is what I want to minimize. She showed up unannounced, but I decided not to answer the door. I don't know why, I just didn't want to give her positive feedback for doing exactly what I told her not to do. She had no way of knowing I was home or at a doctor appointment or where since only one car was there and my husband has to drive me most places. But I assume she thought I was home, because she kept ringing the doorbell, then calling (presumably from her mobile), then pounding on the door, all for about 20 minutes. I have two dogs who bark like crazy, and I just let them bark because I didn't want her to know I was home. I mean, it was insane level stuff, not something a reasonable person would do. I'm not sure that not answering the door wasn't on it's own level a little messed up, but I live in a large enough house that you aren't going to know if anyone is home unless I want you to.
Now, her sister (my aunt) once broke into my home because I told her she couldn't call me at work and I had her mail at my house (the story is more complicated than that, but the short version is that she was hiding her credit card from her husband and she and my mom roped me into letting her get the mail at my house. That's before I realized I don't need to participate in the crazy.) So there is precedence in the family for this to escalate.
I know my mother doesn't think/realize she's doing anything wrong, and thinks she's helping. She thinks the criticism is how you help. Right now though, I need to take care of myself. I feel like a letter with as little detail as possible, just a "I need to take care of myself, and I can't handle your behavior right now. I'll contact you when I'm ready to talk again." will just incite more attempts to reach me. But a longer explanation will probably result in her needing to justify her actions. No word from me will likely continue to escalate her behavior as well.
I just don't know how to do it. With my father, it was easy. I told him what I told him growing up, that the abuse and the drinking were unacceptable and now I wanted him out of my life. It wasn't news, the only news was that I couldn't be bought off with gifts like my mother and my sister. But with my mother, even though our relationship has been strained, she used to be the person I came to to be "rescued" from my dad. And she doesn't think her behavior is unreasonable. I've told her numerous times that I don't want to hear how everything I do is wrong, or that it isn't some sort of requirement I follow all her unwelcome advice.
And to be honest, I also just want a clean break from the rest of the family, and she's the last link. I just don't know how to do that. I'm not in a position to move. And even if I did move (which I'd like to do down the road for other reasons), it would be across down and I really don't intend on hiding; so I'm sure my name and address will be public record somewhere.
I know some of you have gone through estrangement from various family members, and it seems like living a few states a way is part of it. How do you do it with someone in the same area? How do you minimize the drama? What strategy should I take and what blowback should I anticipate?
Two possibly relevant things;
- My husband has offered to "take the blame" and say he forbids me from seeing them. While sweet, I don't want my mother rallying the family and plotting rescue attempts. And it just feels like a bad idea. Like if I ever did decide to reconcile later on, I wouldn't want anyone in my family having a bad view of him. Plus, for an entirely selfish and probably irrelevant reason, I don't want them having the satisfaction of feeling I fucked up in the same way they all did in choosing their spouses. Yes, I do want to look down my nose at them, as petty as that is. (I realize I switched to them from just my mother; I did so because I am sure one way or another, this gets back to them. Plus, my mother is really the last link to the rest of the family.) But, on that note, he's willing to run interference with my family if there is something he can do. I don't think there is, I think it's all me, but maybe I'm missing a strategy.
- I'm in therapy, but it's part of helping me cope with chronic pain and hasn't really been touchy feel-y family stuff aside from a basic history. And I'm not sure how much I want to introduce into therapy beyond "so this is happening and it might be affecting me." because that's really not why I'm there. Plus, I'm not really feeling conflicted about this or that it's something I need to work through. I just really want a big red button that says "delete" and would love strategies to get there as easily and drama free as possible.
Earlier today there was a question in which someone wanted to know how to stop maintaining contact with a longtime friend whom the OP no longer cared for. Most people (at least at first) recommending simply cutting off all contact, ignoring any emails and calls, and not acknowledging the person at all.
I thought this was ridiculous advice. The kind and decent thing would be to let the former friend know, gently and firmly, that they no longer wanted to be close. The former friend hadn't crossed any boundaries, hadn't been emotionally abusive and manipulative -- they simply were a bit stubborn about continuing to ask to be friends, and the OP wanted to let them go.
Alternatively, in your situation, your mother HAS been emotionally abusive and manipulative, and so I would NOT recommend doing what you suggest -- specifically letting your mother know that things are over. You don't owe her that. You don't owe her anything. (And as you mention, that might just set her off more.)
I'd say simply stop answering calls, don't respond to texts or emails (or better yet, block them), and ignore her in every way, shape and form.
posted by lewedswiver at 10:12 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
I thought this was ridiculous advice. The kind and decent thing would be to let the former friend know, gently and firmly, that they no longer wanted to be close. The former friend hadn't crossed any boundaries, hadn't been emotionally abusive and manipulative -- they simply were a bit stubborn about continuing to ask to be friends, and the OP wanted to let them go.
Alternatively, in your situation, your mother HAS been emotionally abusive and manipulative, and so I would NOT recommend doing what you suggest -- specifically letting your mother know that things are over. You don't owe her that. You don't owe her anything. (And as you mention, that might just set her off more.)
I'd say simply stop answering calls, don't respond to texts or emails (or better yet, block them), and ignore her in every way, shape and form.
posted by lewedswiver at 10:12 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
In case my above answer seems overly harsh: My thought process is that you should treat your mother as you would any other adult, and not give her a pass for unreasonable behavior. If an acquaintance called you too early in the morning, you wouldn't answer the phone. If they left you multiple hysterical messages, you'd ignore them and delete them. If they showed up uninvited to your house, you'd refuse to answer the door. If they broke into your house (seriously, WTF?), you'd call the police.
Stop thinking of this woman as your mother when she crosses your boundaries. Start thinking of her a just another adult who should be aware of reasonable adult behavior, and who should face consequences for transgressing it.
posted by jaguar at 10:14 PM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
Stop thinking of this woman as your mother when she crosses your boundaries. Start thinking of her a just another adult who should be aware of reasonable adult behavior, and who should face consequences for transgressing it.
posted by jaguar at 10:14 PM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
Best answer: As to this little tidbit:
I assume she thought I was home, because she kept ringing the doorbell, then calling (presumably from her mobile), then pounding on the door, all for about 20 minutes. I have two dogs who bark like crazy, and I just let them bark because I didn't want her to know I was home. I mean, it was insane level stuff, not something a reasonable person would do.
This makes me think YOU need to escalate the situation in a controlled and adult manner. A terse letter may not be as effective as a letter that lays out exactly what your decision is (no further contact/communication) and what that means for her (all attempts to contact you are unwelcome, any presence at your front door will be unwelcome and will result in a trespassing complaint). And then, silence from you.
If she contacts you or appears at your home or work, you call the police.
I feel, from your post, that you fall into the pattern that seems common among childhood abuse survivors, which is hesitation to enforce your own boundaries against your parents using whatever means are necessary. This is the type of situation that police and orders of protection are meant for.
posted by Unified Theory at 10:19 PM on August 26, 2013 [5 favorites]
I assume she thought I was home, because she kept ringing the doorbell, then calling (presumably from her mobile), then pounding on the door, all for about 20 minutes. I have two dogs who bark like crazy, and I just let them bark because I didn't want her to know I was home. I mean, it was insane level stuff, not something a reasonable person would do.
This makes me think YOU need to escalate the situation in a controlled and adult manner. A terse letter may not be as effective as a letter that lays out exactly what your decision is (no further contact/communication) and what that means for her (all attempts to contact you are unwelcome, any presence at your front door will be unwelcome and will result in a trespassing complaint). And then, silence from you.
If she contacts you or appears at your home or work, you call the police.
I feel, from your post, that you fall into the pattern that seems common among childhood abuse survivors, which is hesitation to enforce your own boundaries against your parents using whatever means are necessary. This is the type of situation that police and orders of protection are meant for.
posted by Unified Theory at 10:19 PM on August 26, 2013 [5 favorites]
Order of Protection. She is harassing you and endangering your health. Have it be in effect for your house, phone calls and email. You both can use USPS to communicate.
You've tried setting reasonable boundaries, and she has been unreasonable. The order of protection WILL be the letter defining the boundaries.
posted by Sophont at 10:35 PM on August 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
You've tried setting reasonable boundaries, and she has been unreasonable. The order of protection WILL be the letter defining the boundaries.
posted by Sophont at 10:35 PM on August 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
It also may be helpful to read any works by Alice Miller. She focuses on childhood abuse, and its intergenerational component, but one of the most powerful ideas I took from her work was: It is in no way any child's fault for being abused and for acting out because the abuse; it is, however, every adult's responsibility to avoid abusing, no matter what their history, and every abusive adult should be held fully responsible for abusing others. To me, this helped remind me that the majority of abused children do not become abusive adults, and so regardless of one's past, one is responsible for one's adult behavior.
Or, in other words, stop giving your mother a break. She enabled your father's abuse of you, and she, as an adult and a mother, is fully responsible for that choice. She could have gotten out, she could have gotten help, but she chose not to do so. You are well within your rights to hold her accountable for her role in your abuse.
posted by jaguar at 11:07 PM on August 26, 2013 [10 favorites]
Or, in other words, stop giving your mother a break. She enabled your father's abuse of you, and she, as an adult and a mother, is fully responsible for that choice. She could have gotten out, she could have gotten help, but she chose not to do so. You are well within your rights to hold her accountable for her role in your abuse.
posted by jaguar at 11:07 PM on August 26, 2013 [10 favorites]
Oh, and (sorry for the serial posting) if you find it too complicated or hard to call the police on your mom, that's a great place where your husband can run interference. It's his home, too, and both of you deserve to live in a safe place.
posted by jaguar at 11:09 PM on August 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 11:09 PM on August 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
I think that the letter you are thinking of writing is just right - it lets her know exactly what is happening, without giving her enough information to quibble over. The only thing I would add is to make clear that you do not want her to show up at your house. After that, block her calls and e-mails - make it so that you won't even know that she's been trying to reach you - hell unplug the doorbell if you have to. You really don't owe her anything more than that - you have spent a long time trying to get her to see that her behaiour is hurting you, if she hasn't gotten the message by now, nothing else you can say is going to get through to her. I feel really bad for you - she's got you so wound up that you are worried about her feelings here, at a time when everyone that loves and cares for you should be doing their utmost to help you recover your health. Doesn't that sound totally backwards to you?
You tried your best, and suffered enough, it really is ok to extricate yourself from this painful relationship.
I hope you start feeling better soon
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 11:20 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
You tried your best, and suffered enough, it really is ok to extricate yourself from this painful relationship.
I hope you start feeling better soon
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 11:20 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Make it as simple as possible. Mom, thanks for taking care of me when I needed it. For personal reasons, I need to take a break from seeing you. Thanks for understanding. The best thing your husband can do is be your gatekeeper. He can take a few calls from your Mom, and just say [insert clever name here] needs to avoid the drama and stress of dealing with family. She needs to focus on her health.
Longer term, think abut what your Mom may have to offer, and what you want from her. No way of knowing if she can give yo any part of what you need, but even dysfunctional people can surprise you.
posted by theora55 at 11:21 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Longer term, think abut what your Mom may have to offer, and what you want from her. No way of knowing if she can give yo any part of what you need, but even dysfunctional people can surprise you.
posted by theora55 at 11:21 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Self-employment is great because you get to choose who you work with.
Adulthood is like that in that you get to choose which adults you want to hang with. Parents are but one category of adults.
If you are absenting yourself to punish or manipulate them, you aren't being an adult. You are being childish. You are the judge of whether this is the case. In your heart, you know.
If you are absenting yourself for any other reason (including coming to terms with their history, allowing them time to reflect/consider/repair any insults to you/others, you hate their politics or whatever, or you just don't like being around them) that's the prerogative of adulthood. Free adults are under no obligation other than that which is self-imposed to associate with anyone. You just have to own it.
Doesn't make you a good person or a bad person. It makes you an adult. The end of a successful childhood, even if it happens at 40 is that the child becomes an adult. Part of that is hard choices, routinely made. Mom and Dad aren't in charge any more.
posted by FauxScot at 12:16 AM on August 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
Adulthood is like that in that you get to choose which adults you want to hang with. Parents are but one category of adults.
If you are absenting yourself to punish or manipulate them, you aren't being an adult. You are being childish. You are the judge of whether this is the case. In your heart, you know.
If you are absenting yourself for any other reason (including coming to terms with their history, allowing them time to reflect/consider/repair any insults to you/others, you hate their politics or whatever, or you just don't like being around them) that's the prerogative of adulthood. Free adults are under no obligation other than that which is self-imposed to associate with anyone. You just have to own it.
Doesn't make you a good person or a bad person. It makes you an adult. The end of a successful childhood, even if it happens at 40 is that the child becomes an adult. Part of that is hard choices, routinely made. Mom and Dad aren't in charge any more.
posted by FauxScot at 12:16 AM on August 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
Memail me for links on Askme to my personal story. It's late. I want to provide you comfort, but its bed time for me right now...
I cut off my mom when I was 24 for drama like you describe, but ended it with my dad entirely when I was 38 and re-married to someone normal.
What you describe is Normal .
These people fall away the healthier you get, family bonds don't apply. Mental Health Reigns.
It's normal to place boundaries or block altogether unhealthy family - that's what happens.
Get therapy and do not repeat these patterns with your spouse or children.
That is all.
posted by jbenben at 12:17 AM on August 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
I cut off my mom when I was 24 for drama like you describe, but ended it with my dad entirely when I was 38 and re-married to someone normal.
What you describe is Normal .
These people fall away the healthier you get, family bonds don't apply. Mental Health Reigns.
It's normal to place boundaries or block altogether unhealthy family - that's what happens.
Get therapy and do not repeat these patterns with your spouse or children.
That is all.
posted by jbenben at 12:17 AM on August 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I agree with some of the above, but I think you need to do two things.
1. Tell your mother that you needs to take a break from contact, and ask her not to try to contact you. You will contact her, if and when you are ready. You can be matter of fact about this, without blaming - your proposed letter seems to do this well.
Or, if you think your mother will not leave you alone without a reason, you can try to explain why you need this. I have had friends in your situation, and the attempt to explain has only stoked the crazy fires, and provoked attempts by the parent to respond and defend themselves. Better to be matter of fact.
2. Take steps to make sure she can't contact you.
Her past behaviour demonstrates that she has issues with boundaries. You cannot trust that she will respect your wishes to be left alone. So, filter your emails so all her messages get deleted automatically. Block her number on your phone (Android tutorial, iPhone option), or change phone numbers. If you can't block the calls, screen them - don't answer calls from blocked numbers, let them go to voicemail, delete her messages. If she shows up at the house again, ask your husband to run interference and tell her that you don't want to see her and ask her to leave.
Hopefully, once she realises that she can't contact you at all, she'll stop trying. It will likely take a bit of time.
Don't feel guilty about any of this. You are entitled to control whom you spend your time with. You are entitled to make sure you get the space and privacy that you need. And you are entitled to protect yourself.
If this doesn't work, you may need a restraining/protection order. But you can cross that bridge if you come to it.
Good luck.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 12:19 AM on August 27, 2013 [4 favorites]
1. Tell your mother that you needs to take a break from contact, and ask her not to try to contact you. You will contact her, if and when you are ready. You can be matter of fact about this, without blaming - your proposed letter seems to do this well.
Or, if you think your mother will not leave you alone without a reason, you can try to explain why you need this. I have had friends in your situation, and the attempt to explain has only stoked the crazy fires, and provoked attempts by the parent to respond and defend themselves. Better to be matter of fact.
2. Take steps to make sure she can't contact you.
Her past behaviour demonstrates that she has issues with boundaries. You cannot trust that she will respect your wishes to be left alone. So, filter your emails so all her messages get deleted automatically. Block her number on your phone (Android tutorial, iPhone option), or change phone numbers. If you can't block the calls, screen them - don't answer calls from blocked numbers, let them go to voicemail, delete her messages. If she shows up at the house again, ask your husband to run interference and tell her that you don't want to see her and ask her to leave.
Hopefully, once she realises that she can't contact you at all, she'll stop trying. It will likely take a bit of time.
Don't feel guilty about any of this. You are entitled to control whom you spend your time with. You are entitled to make sure you get the space and privacy that you need. And you are entitled to protect yourself.
If this doesn't work, you may need a restraining/protection order. But you can cross that bridge if you come to it.
Good luck.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 12:19 AM on August 27, 2013 [4 favorites]
Ouf. I feel for you. My family is very, very similar, just with different people playing the roles (my mother was overtly nasty; my father was more like your mother, for instance).
I know some of you have gone through estrangement from various family members, and it seems like living a few states a way is part of it. How do you do it with someone in the same area? How do you minimize the drama? What strategy should I take and what blowback should I anticipate?
I can only answer from experience, and from what I've seen of other friends from abusive families who've broken up contact, but also from my experience watching family members unsuccessfully break contact (in other words they got roped back in).
That your mother crossed a HUGE boundary of going to your place, ringing, calling(!!), AND banging on your doors, for 20 minutes, WITH the dogs barking, has my "holy crap be careful" senses going off on red alert. In this case, "be careful" means I totally get your desire for the least drama possible, and think your gut is telling you something valuable with that. For that reason, I don't think restraining orders or similar will be a good idea. They will escalate things in her mind.
Granted, my success with my mother was also predicated on being on the other side of the planet... but telling her, "Mom, I don't want to speak to you any more" only triggered an onslaught of badmouthing to others, and continued attempts at contact (which I ignored). I say "only" because I saw the badmouthing coming a mile away, and so saw it as sacrificial collateral damage. Doesn't make it right, but there comes a point when you're so sick of their behavior, you tell yourself, "this is the last I will pay for their hell, and since I'll no longer be in contact with them, there will be no more paying." It helps steel your resolve in no longer engaging, too, since your gut knows that engaging will only open your depleted stores to more hoarding from their abusive "needs".
Two possibly relevant things;
- My husband has offered to "take the blame" and say he forbids me from seeing them. While sweet, I don't want my mother rallying the family and plotting rescue attempts. And it just feels like a bad idea.
It is a bad idea. A sweet and courageous idea on his part, but a bad idea indeed. You're absolutely right that your family will try to rescue you, but worse, you are right, they will also use your "bad" relationship (that's how they would see it with this route) as a way to undermine your choices even further. Giving your mother fuel, as irrational as that fuel is (genuinely abusive relationships are not the fault of any abused partner), risks making things much, much worse.
I'm in therapy, but it's part of helping me cope with chronic pain and hasn't really been touchy feel-y family stuff aside from a basic history. And I'm not sure how much I want to introduce into therapy beyond "so this is happening and it might be affecting me." because that's really not why I'm there. Plus, I'm not really feeling conflicted about this or that it's something I need to work through. I just really want a big red button that says "delete" and would love strategies to get there as easily and drama free as possible.
There is no button that says "delete". I understand your wish for it, I wish it existed too, but it doesn't. If you don't want to bring it up in therapy now, that's fine, but do keep that potential open, because having been there and done that, once the relief of having shut that final door of no contact is passed... other doors open. And you start to realize (and yes it is a sucky realization) how much all that family shit is still affecting you. But don't worry, as much as you just want to throw your arms in the air and go "IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT MY EFFING FAMILY AAAARRRRGHHH", that sort of realization is healthy because it IS a way to move past them to become a more whole person. I am really happy to be able to say that after years of therapy where I dove in to the whole family thing, precisely because I was in a space where I had cut them off a few years before, blithely gone on with my life, and then BAM, bad situations arose in which my childhood experiences were being echoed and thus triggered and I was like, "oh hi PTSD and depression" and went to therapy in large part because, dammit, enough is effing enough, I want my life to be MINE, not an after-effect of a shitty family. And y'know what? Now it is mine. With wonderful friends, a great job, and fluffy furballs of love.
The job is a good example of collateral damage overcome: it wasn't always great. But thanks to therapy, and this was directly related to my childhood in ways I never would have seen had I not actively gone after them, I grew to see how, essentially, my "arms had been chopped off" (always related strongly to the fairy tale "The Girl With No Arms") in relation to career goals. I had none. Zero. Because I had no fucking idea what that even was, because my family always told me I was shit with finances, hopeless at jobs (I was 21 when I left home, for some perspective on their nonsense... in other words they had no blithering idea), no one took me seriously, and if I ever got a job, it would be as a cleaning lady or, if I were REALLY lucky, in data entry. Now I am a business analyst with a major French multinational, in part because, oh hey, I actually have very healthy, grounded ideals when it comes to humane workspaces, and chose my employer well. Better than I even realized. Thanks to therapy, I was able to better realize it, and because of that, I trust colleagues who are worthy of that trust, and because of that, I am entrusted with more responsibilities, and thanks to therapy, I understand why I'm entrusted with them and in which ways I'm valued by my colleagues and management... and we get to the final "because of that", for the first time in my 37-year-life, I can actually set goals more than 5 years in the future as regards my career. Heck, I can even project my goals 25 years into the future. I know it's tangential, but this has been so mind-blowing for me, and something I really, genuinely never thought possible (just like the girl in that fairy tale, how do you get your arms back when your parents cut them off?? "not possible!" but she does), and most unsettling for me... something I might never have realized, had I not gone through the muck of dealing with my past. It can make a difference. When you're ready. You do need to "want" it, as awful and constraining as that "want" will feel when it comes.
If there is one thing I'd say you can look forward to, it's that. Their influence is now reduced to relating to others with it, which is a positive, constructive thing. I have no more flashbacks, no more nightmares, and wonderfully... no more triggers. I never thought such peace of mind was possible. I'm able to look at my life, smile, relax, and view myself in the future. Whereas before, there was always a part of me that felt guilty, or wondered if I really were the bad person they made me out to be, if my choices were crappy (got that All.The.Time), if one day I would reconcile with them, if I would find it in me to forgive them, what I would do if I have kids... well, now it's like, nope. I'm fine. They sucked. And thanks to therapy, I know, in detail, the myriad ways in which they were abusive. I know precisely why it is futile to try to reconcile myself with the image they held of me. I know how and why my choices were healthy given the pile of shit I was handed. I know exactly why I will never reconcile with them. I know I have forgiven them in the sense that I understand what they did, many reasons why they did it, and that those "reasons" make their treatment of me worse, not better (this is with full agreement of my therapist, FWIW)... and so my forgiveness lies in seeing that and saying, "never more." If I ever have children, they will not know my family, and ditto, therapy gave me the insight to know EXACTLY why. It is not because of revenge or manipulation or whatever guilt-trippy or shameful reason my family would definitely put on it... it is because my family was abusive, and I would never be able to live with myself if I put my child in harm's way – were they to lay a hand or a nasty word or a damaging remark on my child. Which they would, because they always have. They did it to my newborn niece weeks after her birth, several months ago. (Which I only knew about because I had tried to reconcile with my brother; he was the last/final member of the family I cut off because of toxicity. In other words, he didn't see what was wrong with how his daughter was being treated by family, and in fact ended up neglecting her himself, which was the last straw for me.)
Rambling comment concluding recommendations: cut her off with a simple phrase. No explanation. Explanations would only be used as weapons. Then do not return her calls, emails, doorbells, anything. Do. Not. Engage. Do not engage with other people she ropes in to pull guilt trips on you; do not be surprised if she targets your friends for this. Tell them, "I am not speaking to my mother. You don't have to deliver messages for her, and if you want, you can stop talking to her as well." Then change the conversation. It will get worse before it gets better, but it will get better. You've done so much already, this will be fine too. Bon courage !
posted by fraula at 2:04 AM on August 27, 2013 [8 favorites]
I know some of you have gone through estrangement from various family members, and it seems like living a few states a way is part of it. How do you do it with someone in the same area? How do you minimize the drama? What strategy should I take and what blowback should I anticipate?
I can only answer from experience, and from what I've seen of other friends from abusive families who've broken up contact, but also from my experience watching family members unsuccessfully break contact (in other words they got roped back in).
That your mother crossed a HUGE boundary of going to your place, ringing, calling(!!), AND banging on your doors, for 20 minutes, WITH the dogs barking, has my "holy crap be careful" senses going off on red alert. In this case, "be careful" means I totally get your desire for the least drama possible, and think your gut is telling you something valuable with that. For that reason, I don't think restraining orders or similar will be a good idea. They will escalate things in her mind.
Granted, my success with my mother was also predicated on being on the other side of the planet... but telling her, "Mom, I don't want to speak to you any more" only triggered an onslaught of badmouthing to others, and continued attempts at contact (which I ignored). I say "only" because I saw the badmouthing coming a mile away, and so saw it as sacrificial collateral damage. Doesn't make it right, but there comes a point when you're so sick of their behavior, you tell yourself, "this is the last I will pay for their hell, and since I'll no longer be in contact with them, there will be no more paying." It helps steel your resolve in no longer engaging, too, since your gut knows that engaging will only open your depleted stores to more hoarding from their abusive "needs".
Two possibly relevant things;
- My husband has offered to "take the blame" and say he forbids me from seeing them. While sweet, I don't want my mother rallying the family and plotting rescue attempts. And it just feels like a bad idea.
It is a bad idea. A sweet and courageous idea on his part, but a bad idea indeed. You're absolutely right that your family will try to rescue you, but worse, you are right, they will also use your "bad" relationship (that's how they would see it with this route) as a way to undermine your choices even further. Giving your mother fuel, as irrational as that fuel is (genuinely abusive relationships are not the fault of any abused partner), risks making things much, much worse.
I'm in therapy, but it's part of helping me cope with chronic pain and hasn't really been touchy feel-y family stuff aside from a basic history. And I'm not sure how much I want to introduce into therapy beyond "so this is happening and it might be affecting me." because that's really not why I'm there. Plus, I'm not really feeling conflicted about this or that it's something I need to work through. I just really want a big red button that says "delete" and would love strategies to get there as easily and drama free as possible.
There is no button that says "delete". I understand your wish for it, I wish it existed too, but it doesn't. If you don't want to bring it up in therapy now, that's fine, but do keep that potential open, because having been there and done that, once the relief of having shut that final door of no contact is passed... other doors open. And you start to realize (and yes it is a sucky realization) how much all that family shit is still affecting you. But don't worry, as much as you just want to throw your arms in the air and go "IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT MY EFFING FAMILY AAAARRRRGHHH", that sort of realization is healthy because it IS a way to move past them to become a more whole person. I am really happy to be able to say that after years of therapy where I dove in to the whole family thing, precisely because I was in a space where I had cut them off a few years before, blithely gone on with my life, and then BAM, bad situations arose in which my childhood experiences were being echoed and thus triggered and I was like, "oh hi PTSD and depression" and went to therapy in large part because, dammit, enough is effing enough, I want my life to be MINE, not an after-effect of a shitty family. And y'know what? Now it is mine. With wonderful friends, a great job, and fluffy furballs of love.
The job is a good example of collateral damage overcome: it wasn't always great. But thanks to therapy, and this was directly related to my childhood in ways I never would have seen had I not actively gone after them, I grew to see how, essentially, my "arms had been chopped off" (always related strongly to the fairy tale "The Girl With No Arms") in relation to career goals. I had none. Zero. Because I had no fucking idea what that even was, because my family always told me I was shit with finances, hopeless at jobs (I was 21 when I left home, for some perspective on their nonsense... in other words they had no blithering idea), no one took me seriously, and if I ever got a job, it would be as a cleaning lady or, if I were REALLY lucky, in data entry. Now I am a business analyst with a major French multinational, in part because, oh hey, I actually have very healthy, grounded ideals when it comes to humane workspaces, and chose my employer well. Better than I even realized. Thanks to therapy, I was able to better realize it, and because of that, I trust colleagues who are worthy of that trust, and because of that, I am entrusted with more responsibilities, and thanks to therapy, I understand why I'm entrusted with them and in which ways I'm valued by my colleagues and management... and we get to the final "because of that", for the first time in my 37-year-life, I can actually set goals more than 5 years in the future as regards my career. Heck, I can even project my goals 25 years into the future. I know it's tangential, but this has been so mind-blowing for me, and something I really, genuinely never thought possible (just like the girl in that fairy tale, how do you get your arms back when your parents cut them off?? "not possible!" but she does), and most unsettling for me... something I might never have realized, had I not gone through the muck of dealing with my past. It can make a difference. When you're ready. You do need to "want" it, as awful and constraining as that "want" will feel when it comes.
If there is one thing I'd say you can look forward to, it's that. Their influence is now reduced to relating to others with it, which is a positive, constructive thing. I have no more flashbacks, no more nightmares, and wonderfully... no more triggers. I never thought such peace of mind was possible. I'm able to look at my life, smile, relax, and view myself in the future. Whereas before, there was always a part of me that felt guilty, or wondered if I really were the bad person they made me out to be, if my choices were crappy (got that All.The.Time), if one day I would reconcile with them, if I would find it in me to forgive them, what I would do if I have kids... well, now it's like, nope. I'm fine. They sucked. And thanks to therapy, I know, in detail, the myriad ways in which they were abusive. I know precisely why it is futile to try to reconcile myself with the image they held of me. I know how and why my choices were healthy given the pile of shit I was handed. I know exactly why I will never reconcile with them. I know I have forgiven them in the sense that I understand what they did, many reasons why they did it, and that those "reasons" make their treatment of me worse, not better (this is with full agreement of my therapist, FWIW)... and so my forgiveness lies in seeing that and saying, "never more." If I ever have children, they will not know my family, and ditto, therapy gave me the insight to know EXACTLY why. It is not because of revenge or manipulation or whatever guilt-trippy or shameful reason my family would definitely put on it... it is because my family was abusive, and I would never be able to live with myself if I put my child in harm's way – were they to lay a hand or a nasty word or a damaging remark on my child. Which they would, because they always have. They did it to my newborn niece weeks after her birth, several months ago. (Which I only knew about because I had tried to reconcile with my brother; he was the last/final member of the family I cut off because of toxicity. In other words, he didn't see what was wrong with how his daughter was being treated by family, and in fact ended up neglecting her himself, which was the last straw for me.)
Rambling comment concluding recommendations: cut her off with a simple phrase. No explanation. Explanations would only be used as weapons. Then do not return her calls, emails, doorbells, anything. Do. Not. Engage. Do not engage with other people she ropes in to pull guilt trips on you; do not be surprised if she targets your friends for this. Tell them, "I am not speaking to my mother. You don't have to deliver messages for her, and if you want, you can stop talking to her as well." Then change the conversation. It will get worse before it gets better, but it will get better. You've done so much already, this will be fine too. Bon courage !
posted by fraula at 2:04 AM on August 27, 2013 [8 favorites]
What a fucking fiasco, my friend. I thought my parents were nuts.
A lot of people somewhat dismissively suggest therapy on this site, but I think in your case it might genuinely help to commit to an ongoing conversation with someone about what you're going through. In my experience with woo therapy, I have found a divide between two camps - one that emphasizes reconciliation with and inclusion of the parental unit, and one that, especially in situations that involve emotional or physical abuse, emphasizes separation, self-care, focus on the self and perhaps the creation of new, healthy family-like structures.
I think the very fact that you committed to such a wall of text says a lot about how you're feeling and how deep it runs. Sitting silently in bed with your mother pounding on the door says a lot. That has to be the worst, most isolating feeling ever. It's a big red flag. Treat it as such.
Normal people struggle with their parents. Normal people don't have all the answers. I get the feeling you feel like you need to come up with some well-thought-out, all-encompassing answers. I know these kinds of situations can cause people to hole up. I hope you have close friends and consider reaching out to them for some real support. Perhaps even your husband's family, if they are healthy. There are also some wonderful twelve step programs out there, like Al-Anon and CoDA. I don't know if there is a "delete" button, but there is definitely a "I don't have to deal with this shit today" button and an "I don't have to have all the fucking answers just because you don't" button.
The unpredictability of alcoholics, or people that are crazy or unstable, creates an undue burden to bystanders and victims and members of the family to have to be really clear about boundaries, to fix the family, or to be one that provides resolution or a happy ending for everyone. Sending mixed signals is a luxury afforded to other people; for you it becomes a critical issue.
Your mom might have severe self-esteem issues. Her criticism of you might be a misguided effort to help you, or putting you down might make her feel better about herself, or she might have a more serious problem. You're not going to get an answer from the internet on that one. This is such a hard thing to say to someone about their mom but, you're allowed to be totally indebted to someone for your life, and then cut them off if they end up abusing you.
Sometimes I feel like my mom doesn't hear anything that I'm saying or doesn't really know who I am. I file my objections, but lately it's really beginning to sink in that I can't change who she is. In your case, talking to the police or enlisting friends or neighbors to help might not be a bad idea. You deserve a peaceful home. The point is, you don't have to figure this out all by yourself.
posted by phaedon at 2:18 AM on August 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
A lot of people somewhat dismissively suggest therapy on this site, but I think in your case it might genuinely help to commit to an ongoing conversation with someone about what you're going through. In my experience with woo therapy, I have found a divide between two camps - one that emphasizes reconciliation with and inclusion of the parental unit, and one that, especially in situations that involve emotional or physical abuse, emphasizes separation, self-care, focus on the self and perhaps the creation of new, healthy family-like structures.
I think the very fact that you committed to such a wall of text says a lot about how you're feeling and how deep it runs. Sitting silently in bed with your mother pounding on the door says a lot. That has to be the worst, most isolating feeling ever. It's a big red flag. Treat it as such.
Normal people struggle with their parents. Normal people don't have all the answers. I get the feeling you feel like you need to come up with some well-thought-out, all-encompassing answers. I know these kinds of situations can cause people to hole up. I hope you have close friends and consider reaching out to them for some real support. Perhaps even your husband's family, if they are healthy. There are also some wonderful twelve step programs out there, like Al-Anon and CoDA. I don't know if there is a "delete" button, but there is definitely a "I don't have to deal with this shit today" button and an "I don't have to have all the fucking answers just because you don't" button.
The unpredictability of alcoholics, or people that are crazy or unstable, creates an undue burden to bystanders and victims and members of the family to have to be really clear about boundaries, to fix the family, or to be one that provides resolution or a happy ending for everyone. Sending mixed signals is a luxury afforded to other people; for you it becomes a critical issue.
Your mom might have severe self-esteem issues. Her criticism of you might be a misguided effort to help you, or putting you down might make her feel better about herself, or she might have a more serious problem. You're not going to get an answer from the internet on that one. This is such a hard thing to say to someone about their mom but, you're allowed to be totally indebted to someone for your life, and then cut them off if they end up abusing you.
Sometimes I feel like my mom doesn't hear anything that I'm saying or doesn't really know who I am. I file my objections, but lately it's really beginning to sink in that I can't change who she is. In your case, talking to the police or enlisting friends or neighbors to help might not be a bad idea. You deserve a peaceful home. The point is, you don't have to figure this out all by yourself.
posted by phaedon at 2:18 AM on August 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: From a slightly different angle, can I ask you to consider your chronic pain as part of this larger hurt. I also started therapy ostensibly to work through chronic pain issues but then realised how much the pain was [although very real, operable etc] also an enactment of real psychological wounds. It helps to get into this stuff with therapy, even if you feel that it is not the core business when you are there.
I had an elongated time period of unwelcome attention and visits from a parent, and it drew me back into a psychological state of play that was unhealthy. As you say, whilst you are focussing on this drama, you are not focussing on yourself. I cannot overstate the dramatic improvement in my whole well being when I made and followed through on my decision to cut off that parent's contact. I was not constantly on edge waiting for the doorbell to ring. No seeing a familiar car outside my place. No phone calls.
Holding this much anxiety and dread in your body is a drain, and you need to clinically detach the drain. Whether it's by email or letter or just ignoring the door, get it clear in your own mind. 'I will not tolerate any bullshit from anyone'. If it was me and my mother behaved in the way you describe, I would have answered the door after it was clear she was going to keep harassing me with doorbelll ringing. I would have said flatly "I am too angry with your behaviour to have you visit me or contact me.'
Own it. Say something about how you feel about her: "I am angry with you and I don't feel like talking to you." You don't even have to say what you are precisely angry about. If she remonstrates just say again "I am angry with you and I don't feel like dealing with you." People can argue all they like, you just know what you know. And that is good enough really.
Get well.
posted by honey-barbara at 2:55 AM on August 27, 2013 [6 favorites]
I had an elongated time period of unwelcome attention and visits from a parent, and it drew me back into a psychological state of play that was unhealthy. As you say, whilst you are focussing on this drama, you are not focussing on yourself. I cannot overstate the dramatic improvement in my whole well being when I made and followed through on my decision to cut off that parent's contact. I was not constantly on edge waiting for the doorbell to ring. No seeing a familiar car outside my place. No phone calls.
Holding this much anxiety and dread in your body is a drain, and you need to clinically detach the drain. Whether it's by email or letter or just ignoring the door, get it clear in your own mind. 'I will not tolerate any bullshit from anyone'. If it was me and my mother behaved in the way you describe, I would have answered the door after it was clear she was going to keep harassing me with doorbelll ringing. I would have said flatly "I am too angry with your behaviour to have you visit me or contact me.'
Own it. Say something about how you feel about her: "I am angry with you and I don't feel like talking to you." You don't even have to say what you are precisely angry about. If she remonstrates just say again "I am angry with you and I don't feel like dealing with you." People can argue all they like, you just know what you know. And that is good enough really.
Get well.
posted by honey-barbara at 2:55 AM on August 27, 2013 [6 favorites]
Your idea of a letter sounds fine: some version of "I need to take care of myself right now, and do not want you to contact me in any way. I will let you know when I am ready to resume contact with you." Then hold fast to that rule: do not, EVER, respond to her calls or emails, not even to tell her again to back off; it's called an 'extinction burst' --- if you reply after her 25th call for instance, then all that tells her is that it takes at least 25 calls for her to get your attention.
Do NOT mention anything about the door-pounding incident; you don't want to let her know that yes, you WERE home, and if she just keeps trying that shit long enough you might answer the door.
And I know you said your current therapist isn't much into your family history, but do mention all this: the stress alone has to be affecting your physical situation. Also, the current therapist might be able to suggest someone else for you to talk to.
posted by easily confused at 2:57 AM on August 27, 2013 [4 favorites]
Do NOT mention anything about the door-pounding incident; you don't want to let her know that yes, you WERE home, and if she just keeps trying that shit long enough you might answer the door.
And I know you said your current therapist isn't much into your family history, but do mention all this: the stress alone has to be affecting your physical situation. Also, the current therapist might be able to suggest someone else for you to talk to.
posted by easily confused at 2:57 AM on August 27, 2013 [4 favorites]
You really tried, and your family failed the test. I agree, send a letter.
Right now I really need to work on re-gaining my health. While I realize that you have the best of intentions, our interactions lately have been very stressful for me. I need to focus all of my energy on healing and right now. Please do not contact me in any way. I will initiate contact when I am well enough to do so.
Change your phone number, block her email, defriend on FB, whatever it is you have to do. If she doesn't let up, then get a restraining order for harrassment.
Just because you were all in the same hostage situation together, it doesn't mean that you owe each other anything.
Your Mom sounds toxic and unhelpful and selfish and narcissistic. You have my permission to drop her like a bad habit.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:14 AM on August 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
Right now I really need to work on re-gaining my health. While I realize that you have the best of intentions, our interactions lately have been very stressful for me. I need to focus all of my energy on healing and right now. Please do not contact me in any way. I will initiate contact when I am well enough to do so.
Change your phone number, block her email, defriend on FB, whatever it is you have to do. If she doesn't let up, then get a restraining order for harrassment.
Just because you were all in the same hostage situation together, it doesn't mean that you owe each other anything.
Your Mom sounds toxic and unhelpful and selfish and narcissistic. You have my permission to drop her like a bad habit.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:14 AM on August 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
Your mom definitely sounds overly critical and controlling, and she is clearly making you stressed and unhappy at a time when you can't afford extra stress. So I think you are making the right choice.
(But as an aside, as a mother myself, if my child were ill and I thought he was at home and not answering the door, I'd practically try to break it down, too. Because I'd be all like, "What if my kid is unconscious on the floor?" I can't tell from what you wrote whether she was genuinely thinking that you might be in trouble, or was just desperate for attention because of her dependent personality. So I'm not sure whether that incident was particularly crazy. What WAS definitely crazy was her showing up in the first place when you had asked her not to. It was incredibly inconsiderate and passive-aggressive of her to ignore your instructions and show up unannounced at your house.)
I also had an abusive father whom I no longer speak to. Luckily for me, my mother was already divorced from him long before I stopped speaking to him and she pretty much despises him so she has never pushed me to talk to him or have anything to do with him. I care a great deal about my mother and have no wish to cut off contact with her. But I still HAVE had some of the same issues you mention with my mother (to a much lesser degree than you describe, but still often enough to be annoying). She criticizes me A LOT (especially my parenting choices) and when she comes to visit, she wants to rearrange my linen closet and tell me what color to repaint my bedroom and feed me weird supplements and change my diet to be "more natural" (which is kind of hilarious because I'm already a hippie vegetarian who grows her own organic vegetables in the backyard).
It drives me CRAZY that my mom does this. And for my whole adult life I've been trying to figure it out. Why is she like this? She wasn't this critical and controlling when I was a kid. In fact when I was a teenager, she pretty much let me do whatever the heck I wanted to the point that it was probably a little detrimental. I moved out of the house when I was 17 and started living with some pretty iffy people in some pretty iffy places, and she let me do it without objection in the name of me finding my own way.
Then, a couple of years ago I had an epiphany about it: I really think my mother blames herself for my shitty childhood and is trying to make up for it NOW by parenting me as if I were a child. She married the wrong man when she was too young to get married; she had me when she was too young to have a kid; she had to work long hours and wasn't around much when I was little; she failed recognize some dangerous situations; she failed to protect me from poverty and neglect and abuse by other people; she left me to my own devices as a teen when I could actually have used a little support. She can't change ANY of that. But she can tell me NOW that I bought the wrong color wall paint and also I should take 2,000 milligrams of Vitamin C daily and also I should be teaching my kid to play violin instead of piano.
I suspect this may be what is going on with your mother, too. I am not saying this in any attempt to make you feel sorry enough for her that you give up on going no-contact. I bring it up because it has been helpful for me to feel I understand my mother's motivation for treating me like an unruly child from time to time even though I'm in my 30s. It takes some of the sting out of her treatment of me when I realize she is probably doing it from a place of guilt.
I bring it up also because I think it might give you some ideas on the best way to cut ties with her. I do NOT think you should have your husband take the blame for you when you cut her off. That will only be putting a man in between the two of you again; it will make her recall the situation with your father, and she might up convincing herself that you need to be "rescued" from your husband. I think you need to be honest with her and tell her that the way she is trying to parent you right now is entirely inappropriate, and that you have to cut ties with her for the sake of your own sanity because she refuses to treat you as an adult and refuses to respect your right to make adult decisions.
posted by BlueJae at 7:51 AM on August 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
(But as an aside, as a mother myself, if my child were ill and I thought he was at home and not answering the door, I'd practically try to break it down, too. Because I'd be all like, "What if my kid is unconscious on the floor?" I can't tell from what you wrote whether she was genuinely thinking that you might be in trouble, or was just desperate for attention because of her dependent personality. So I'm not sure whether that incident was particularly crazy. What WAS definitely crazy was her showing up in the first place when you had asked her not to. It was incredibly inconsiderate and passive-aggressive of her to ignore your instructions and show up unannounced at your house.)
I also had an abusive father whom I no longer speak to. Luckily for me, my mother was already divorced from him long before I stopped speaking to him and she pretty much despises him so she has never pushed me to talk to him or have anything to do with him. I care a great deal about my mother and have no wish to cut off contact with her. But I still HAVE had some of the same issues you mention with my mother (to a much lesser degree than you describe, but still often enough to be annoying). She criticizes me A LOT (especially my parenting choices) and when she comes to visit, she wants to rearrange my linen closet and tell me what color to repaint my bedroom and feed me weird supplements and change my diet to be "more natural" (which is kind of hilarious because I'm already a hippie vegetarian who grows her own organic vegetables in the backyard).
It drives me CRAZY that my mom does this. And for my whole adult life I've been trying to figure it out. Why is she like this? She wasn't this critical and controlling when I was a kid. In fact when I was a teenager, she pretty much let me do whatever the heck I wanted to the point that it was probably a little detrimental. I moved out of the house when I was 17 and started living with some pretty iffy people in some pretty iffy places, and she let me do it without objection in the name of me finding my own way.
Then, a couple of years ago I had an epiphany about it: I really think my mother blames herself for my shitty childhood and is trying to make up for it NOW by parenting me as if I were a child. She married the wrong man when she was too young to get married; she had me when she was too young to have a kid; she had to work long hours and wasn't around much when I was little; she failed recognize some dangerous situations; she failed to protect me from poverty and neglect and abuse by other people; she left me to my own devices as a teen when I could actually have used a little support. She can't change ANY of that. But she can tell me NOW that I bought the wrong color wall paint and also I should take 2,000 milligrams of Vitamin C daily and also I should be teaching my kid to play violin instead of piano.
I suspect this may be what is going on with your mother, too. I am not saying this in any attempt to make you feel sorry enough for her that you give up on going no-contact. I bring it up because it has been helpful for me to feel I understand my mother's motivation for treating me like an unruly child from time to time even though I'm in my 30s. It takes some of the sting out of her treatment of me when I realize she is probably doing it from a place of guilt.
I bring it up also because I think it might give you some ideas on the best way to cut ties with her. I do NOT think you should have your husband take the blame for you when you cut her off. That will only be putting a man in between the two of you again; it will make her recall the situation with your father, and she might up convincing herself that you need to be "rescued" from your husband. I think you need to be honest with her and tell her that the way she is trying to parent you right now is entirely inappropriate, and that you have to cut ties with her for the sake of your own sanity because she refuses to treat you as an adult and refuses to respect your right to make adult decisions.
posted by BlueJae at 7:51 AM on August 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
Emotional stess increases pain and vice versa. I feel that it would be okay to bring this up in the context of therapy.
posted by edbles at 8:25 AM on August 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by edbles at 8:25 AM on August 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks everyone. I'll be hard pressed to pick a best answer, because you all were very helpful. I'm going to go ahead and email her, but block everything first. And I'm going to wait a bit so it isn't as apparent it's connected to the doorbell performance - I don't want as many suggested, show that if she does x she'll get a response.
In considering the thoughtful analyses everyone posted, I went back to the email where I tried to draw boundaries last time around and I was a lot more direct than I remember it being, which makes all this more egregious because she is doing pretty much exactly what I told her not to do. In my memory, I was starting to think I hadn't been totally clear. I had.
I also agree about therapy. I should clarify, I have seen a therapist for my family issues, and really thought I was past that. I wasn't not going to tell my pain therapist about it, but I just didn't want to spend a lot of time dwelling on it. But, I think my overwrought explanation was really a good example that it's actually affecting me more than I thought it was.
BlueJae, I've thought about both those things; the whole maternal instinct thing (I don't mean to sound flip, but childfree, I don't have the same experiences as a mother would) as well as her reason behind it; I think in her case, she has so little control over things that happen in her life, or at least feels that way, that she nearly goes out of her mind to try and her daughters do do things EXACTLY THE WAY SHE SAYS. I'm sure part of that is that she's still married to my father, and not happily so. The last time we talked in depth at all about why she didn't/won't leave my father is she's afraid to be alone. So it's not pleasant and I do understand at least some of her actions, but that doesn't make them okay.
I guess I really just wanted to say thanks for all the responses. They helped in a way I didn't expect by giving me some clarity about the insanity. On some level I know that it is, but part of me felt like maybe I was overreacting. I think that's the abused child inside talking.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 2:53 PM on September 3, 2013 [1 favorite]
In considering the thoughtful analyses everyone posted, I went back to the email where I tried to draw boundaries last time around and I was a lot more direct than I remember it being, which makes all this more egregious because she is doing pretty much exactly what I told her not to do. In my memory, I was starting to think I hadn't been totally clear. I had.
I also agree about therapy. I should clarify, I have seen a therapist for my family issues, and really thought I was past that. I wasn't not going to tell my pain therapist about it, but I just didn't want to spend a lot of time dwelling on it. But, I think my overwrought explanation was really a good example that it's actually affecting me more than I thought it was.
BlueJae, I've thought about both those things; the whole maternal instinct thing (I don't mean to sound flip, but childfree, I don't have the same experiences as a mother would) as well as her reason behind it; I think in her case, she has so little control over things that happen in her life, or at least feels that way, that she nearly goes out of her mind to try and her daughters do do things EXACTLY THE WAY SHE SAYS. I'm sure part of that is that she's still married to my father, and not happily so. The last time we talked in depth at all about why she didn't/won't leave my father is she's afraid to be alone. So it's not pleasant and I do understand at least some of her actions, but that doesn't make them okay.
I guess I really just wanted to say thanks for all the responses. They helped in a way I didn't expect by giving me some clarity about the insanity. On some level I know that it is, but part of me felt like maybe I was overreacting. I think that's the abused child inside talking.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 2:53 PM on September 3, 2013 [1 favorite]
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"I need to take care of myself right now. I'll contact you when I'm ready to talk again."
Clear and non-accusatory, so she can't reasonably hook into any part of it to come back with defensiveness.
She will, of course, escalate trying to contact you because she has no respect for your boundaries. Ignore her. You did great by letting the dogs back when she rang your doorbell for 20 (!) minutes. Continue deleting her voicemails and emails. Block her number and email if you can.
If she follows her sister's example and breaks into the house, call the police. 911 immediately. I know getting the cops involved might seem like it's escalating the drama, but it's actually a reasonable response to an illegal act and it's outsourcing the enforcement of your boundaries in a very reasonable way. File a restraining order if she continues to escalate in illegal ways.
Basically: There is absolutely no way for you to end contact with her without her escalating, because she's proven that she is incapable of respecting reasonable boundaries. So the best you can do is (a) state your boundaries clearly and succinctly and (b) enforce them consistently and, as much as possible, without engaging her yourself. Basically, let her escalate the drama as much as she wants herself, and step back from her tornado as much as you can.
posted by jaguar at 10:09 PM on August 26, 2013 [8 favorites]