How to prepare for a possible divorce?
July 25, 2013 9:49 AM Subscribe
A family member has confided in us that divorce is a distinct possibility. She has asked for advice on how to prepare for such eventuality. And I'm turning to the green to help us answer that question. Though as is customary, there is a monkey wrench thrown into the mix.
We know the basics: PO Box, gathering info (property, financial, etc) and docs, create a bank account and credit card. She has her parents she can stay with if it ever comes to it. We've also advised her to seek counseling as well seeing she has anxiety issues on top of the whole thing (both parties have adamantly refused marriage counseling).
The complication we see is that she has been extremely dependent on her spouse for every thing for the last 20 years. She lacks the basic ability to do the simplest things and any sense of independence. Such as having a personal email account (she's been tagging along her husband's joint account) :(
If this were anyone else, our advice would be get a job and new bank account. Save up for the eventuality. With her however a job would be step 3 or 4 down the road (She does have an employment history up to 3 years ago). First step is to get her an email account.
Any advise?
We know the basics: PO Box, gathering info (property, financial, etc) and docs, create a bank account and credit card. She has her parents she can stay with if it ever comes to it. We've also advised her to seek counseling as well seeing she has anxiety issues on top of the whole thing (both parties have adamantly refused marriage counseling).
The complication we see is that she has been extremely dependent on her spouse for every thing for the last 20 years. She lacks the basic ability to do the simplest things and any sense of independence. Such as having a personal email account (she's been tagging along her husband's joint account) :(
If this were anyone else, our advice would be get a job and new bank account. Save up for the eventuality. With her however a job would be step 3 or 4 down the road (She does have an employment history up to 3 years ago). First step is to get her an email account.
Any advise?
Note: all of this only works if she makes it work; I'm assuming she doesn't completely lack any ability to stand on her own.
Lawyer, definitely.
I think a job/separate bank account should still be a top priority. And securing a place to live-- is the parental option actually workable, or a worst case fallback?
New email account, resume and cover letter, start getting applications out now for anything. Waiting tables, temp jobs, call center... whatever she can get to 1: establish new employment history and 2: feed into her bank account. Does she need refreshers in any skills? Is there an adult education type service near her?
Counseling, absolutely is a priority (if she's willing to do it). Support system in general: does she have friends separate from her husband/family?
posted by RainyJay at 9:58 AM on July 25, 2013
Lawyer, definitely.
I think a job/separate bank account should still be a top priority. And securing a place to live-- is the parental option actually workable, or a worst case fallback?
New email account, resume and cover letter, start getting applications out now for anything. Waiting tables, temp jobs, call center... whatever she can get to 1: establish new employment history and 2: feed into her bank account. Does she need refreshers in any skills? Is there an adult education type service near her?
Counseling, absolutely is a priority (if she's willing to do it). Support system in general: does she have friends separate from her husband/family?
posted by RainyJay at 9:58 AM on July 25, 2013
She is at baby steps with independent life, a very high level of codependency, not even a separate email account! A tremendous amount of her thinking and being of 20 years tied up with her spouse. You just don't get up in the morning and take the same steps as someone living a balanced marriage.
First? Evaluate through parents and friends if divorce is really an advisable step right now (barring abuse & violence).
Then, if it is, secure funding. Literally, cash. If this step is not possible, forget the possibility of hiring a lawyer. Which is why she needs to know what the Pros & Cons are about her initiating divorce.
posted by Kruger5 at 10:13 AM on July 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
First? Evaluate through parents and friends if divorce is really an advisable step right now (barring abuse & violence).
Then, if it is, secure funding. Literally, cash. If this step is not possible, forget the possibility of hiring a lawyer. Which is why she needs to know what the Pros & Cons are about her initiating divorce.
posted by Kruger5 at 10:13 AM on July 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Lawyer, then counseling.
Then she should get a job, a bank account and she should know 100% about her and her husband's combined finances. She needs to pull her credit report, as if she wants to live independently, she'll need credit to get an apartment and utilities (and anything else one needs to get by in the world.)
She needs to want all of this, you can't want it for her. If you have to pour cold water on her do it, she needs to know exactly where she is today, so she can adequately plan for tomorrow.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:41 AM on July 25, 2013
Then she should get a job, a bank account and she should know 100% about her and her husband's combined finances. She needs to pull her credit report, as if she wants to live independently, she'll need credit to get an apartment and utilities (and anything else one needs to get by in the world.)
She needs to want all of this, you can't want it for her. If you have to pour cold water on her do it, she needs to know exactly where she is today, so she can adequately plan for tomorrow.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:41 AM on July 25, 2013
Accumulate as much financial data on ex as possible before he starts hiding stuff.
Get copies of tax returns and credit card statements and 401 K statements. Prepare for financial meltdown.
posted by AuntieRuth at 11:02 AM on July 25, 2013
Get copies of tax returns and credit card statements and 401 K statements. Prepare for financial meltdown.
posted by AuntieRuth at 11:02 AM on July 25, 2013
If this is a Betty & Don Draper situation and she's had nothing to do with the money, maybe think of it like what you'd teach a teenager, i.e., how to budget for income vs expenses, what utilities will she need, how to pay those bills, how to file state and federal taxes (or maybe not how but that she will eventually need to do that), car maintenance/gas/registration. etc.
I'd also help her understand job hunting (resume, clothing, interviewing) and employment in general (what workdays are like - dress appropriately, show up on time, work, ask questions as appropriate, take lunch, come back from lunch on time, work more, don't gossip, etc.).
Maybe getting some "If, then" plans down on paper will help her decide what's the best route rather than just next steps being these huge unknowns.
If A (stay married), then A1 (get counseling - marriage and personal and work on becoming an independent adult - important whether the marriage succeeds or not).
If B (divorce), then B1 (move, resume, get job, pay bills, etc.).
posted by Beti at 12:43 PM on July 25, 2013
I'd also help her understand job hunting (resume, clothing, interviewing) and employment in general (what workdays are like - dress appropriately, show up on time, work, ask questions as appropriate, take lunch, come back from lunch on time, work more, don't gossip, etc.).
Maybe getting some "If, then" plans down on paper will help her decide what's the best route rather than just next steps being these huge unknowns.
If A (stay married), then A1 (get counseling - marriage and personal and work on becoming an independent adult - important whether the marriage succeeds or not).
If B (divorce), then B1 (move, resume, get job, pay bills, etc.).
posted by Beti at 12:43 PM on July 25, 2013
She lacks the basic ability to do the simplest things and any sense of independence.
If she was employed 3 years ago, she must have some sort of ability to do something.
Characterizing her this way isn't going to help her become independent.
Figure out what she can do and build on that. Can she cook an egg? Do laundry? Drive? Many adults get on in the world without knowing how to do these things.
If she can manage to log in to her husband's email account, it's probably not some mysterious lack of ability to posses an email account, but that she never saw any reason to have a separate account -- it's not totally unheard of, some people don't do a lot of emailing other than communicating with relatives, and literally haven't felt they needed a separate email account or understood why they would want one, strange as that idea might seem to us on the green.
Do make sure she understands about browser history and all the more advanced things people getting divorced should know if you encourage her to get her own email.
posted by yohko at 1:18 PM on July 25, 2013 [6 favorites]
If she was employed 3 years ago, she must have some sort of ability to do something.
Characterizing her this way isn't going to help her become independent.
Figure out what she can do and build on that. Can she cook an egg? Do laundry? Drive? Many adults get on in the world without knowing how to do these things.
If she can manage to log in to her husband's email account, it's probably not some mysterious lack of ability to posses an email account, but that she never saw any reason to have a separate account -- it's not totally unheard of, some people don't do a lot of emailing other than communicating with relatives, and literally haven't felt they needed a separate email account or understood why they would want one, strange as that idea might seem to us on the green.
Do make sure she understands about browser history and all the more advanced things people getting divorced should know if you encourage her to get her own email.
posted by yohko at 1:18 PM on July 25, 2013 [6 favorites]
After reading yohko's comment, I realized I missed the employment up until three years ago aspect. So what's changed that she now seems so helpless? It sounds like she has the ability do take care of herself and maybe just needs some help organizing herself. Maybe some sort of life coach could help - again whether or not the marriage succeeds, she needs to be able to take care of herself and function independently.
posted by Beti at 1:32 PM on July 25, 2013
posted by Beti at 1:32 PM on July 25, 2013
Response by poster: Yohko - yes...you're right. It's unfair of us to characterize her that way. She's not totally and utterly helpless. Our frustration got the better of us.
Let us rephrase: She's extremely co-dependent. For 20 years our observation has been that she has no identity aside from that of her husband's and marriage. No personal email account (though yes - as you have pointed out yohko, she's able to use it). No personal bank account. She used to be very active in facebook but again no personal account aside from her husband's. No friends to speak of. No activities. She would not come to family gatherings if her husband couldn't make it. To us - she would not lift a finger if her husband could do it. Ask her a simple question...directions to her house for example...and she'd defer to him.
She has no identity aside from marriage and she's about to face divorce (which is brought up by the husband by the way). She's understandably lost and frankly so are we. Aside from the big things like getting a job and lawyers, there are baby steps that most people have when they're teenagers that she needs to do. Like getting a personal email account for communication or jobs and a bank account. Beti - you brought that up and it's probably a real good idea to treat this as prepping a teenager for the real world.
To answer the question about jobs: She was able to obtain and hold a job for a while - if the situation was dire enough. The last 2 times she held down a job was when her husband was laid off and again when there was some financial worry. After the emergency had passed however, she would quit - always with bad blood.
Thank you all for your replies. Appreciate you taking the time out to address our worries.
posted by 7life at 4:26 PM on July 25, 2013
Let us rephrase: She's extremely co-dependent. For 20 years our observation has been that she has no identity aside from that of her husband's and marriage. No personal email account (though yes - as you have pointed out yohko, she's able to use it). No personal bank account. She used to be very active in facebook but again no personal account aside from her husband's. No friends to speak of. No activities. She would not come to family gatherings if her husband couldn't make it. To us - she would not lift a finger if her husband could do it. Ask her a simple question...directions to her house for example...and she'd defer to him.
She has no identity aside from marriage and she's about to face divorce (which is brought up by the husband by the way). She's understandably lost and frankly so are we. Aside from the big things like getting a job and lawyers, there are baby steps that most people have when they're teenagers that she needs to do. Like getting a personal email account for communication or jobs and a bank account. Beti - you brought that up and it's probably a real good idea to treat this as prepping a teenager for the real world.
To answer the question about jobs: She was able to obtain and hold a job for a while - if the situation was dire enough. The last 2 times she held down a job was when her husband was laid off and again when there was some financial worry. After the emergency had passed however, she would quit - always with bad blood.
Thank you all for your replies. Appreciate you taking the time out to address our worries.
posted by 7life at 4:26 PM on July 25, 2013
Other than a teenager, people from a different culture adapting to life in the US or people coming out of a long period of being institutionalized also face issues of learning how to interact with others, banking, etc.
If you are willing, and she is willing, you can help her with learning how to do these things. Baby steps, as you say. No big overarching solution, just many little things to show her how to do.
I wouldn't worry a great deal about her emotional dependency on her husband right now, other than to be careful of encouraging her to be too dependent on you. Once she has to stretch her wings and fly without him, she may well find her own identity. It's entirely possible that he has encouraged her dependence, belittling her abilities and insisting on shared accounts and giving directions.
Act as though she can and will learn how to be independent, and she is much more likely to be able to do that. She may start off with needing a lot of handholding and encouragement, but encourage her in a way that empowers her to fly on her own in the future. Be a safety net, not a tether.
posted by yohko at 7:04 PM on July 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you are willing, and she is willing, you can help her with learning how to do these things. Baby steps, as you say. No big overarching solution, just many little things to show her how to do.
I wouldn't worry a great deal about her emotional dependency on her husband right now, other than to be careful of encouraging her to be too dependent on you. Once she has to stretch her wings and fly without him, she may well find her own identity. It's entirely possible that he has encouraged her dependence, belittling her abilities and insisting on shared accounts and giving directions.
Act as though she can and will learn how to be independent, and she is much more likely to be able to do that. She may start off with needing a lot of handholding and encouragement, but encourage her in a way that empowers her to fly on her own in the future. Be a safety net, not a tether.
posted by yohko at 7:04 PM on July 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
See if a community college near her has a "women in transition" or similar class. I knew a program like that once, decades ago, and it would have been perfect for her.
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:24 PM on July 26, 2013
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:24 PM on July 26, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
I'd spruce up the resume and CL now and start applying, since it takes longer than you think to actually get a job.
posted by radioamy at 9:53 AM on July 25, 2013