Trans and moving: Chicago or Seattle?
June 2, 2013 9:46 AM   Subscribe

The next city I live in will be the city where I start taking hormones and eventually try to pass as female in public. Should it be Chicago or Seattle?

I have some major advantages that are not shared by every trans woman: specifically, I'm white and will have a comfortable tech job salary (and an absence of worries about losing my job on account of being trans). Said job would be downtown in Chicago but in the burbs in Seattle; either way I would want to live in a dense and walkable/bikeable neighborhood with decent public transit (Capitol Hill? Somewhere off the red or brown line going north?), as I am very strongly a city person. I prefer to have my own small apartment and don't plan to shack up or raise children.

I have heard about Howard Brown and the Center on Halsted in Chicago, and I've likewise heard that Seattle is generally very trans friendly, or at least low on harassment generally. What I'd really like to know is more about how daily life works out for trans women in either of these cities. I have almost no experience presenting as anything other than a cis man (with no fashion sense) in public, and trying to get a baseline for what trans women face has just left me with a unhelpfully general sense of unease. (My dysphoria levels are lower than some people's, and I'll likely aim for a more androgynous look in any case, but no matter what I do there will at least be an intermediate period where passing either way is difficult.)

I'm a quiet, introverted, geeky person, and I have heard that Seattle is the geekier city, but geek culture can also be loud, insular, and cruel at times, so I don't know how to interpret this. I would not be entirely socially isolated in either city, but I would need to make at least a few friends to feel comfortable, and my usual approach to making friends is to use OkCupid (I'm also non-monogamous). I prefer small gatherings where people play board games to large gatherings where people get wasted; I don't avoid alcohol, but I'm rather uncomfortable in situations where drunkenness is celebrated, where getting drunk is seen as a goal and/or a requirement for openness in socialization.

My significant city living experience was in Philadelphia, which I enjoyed quite a bit (except for the summer humidity), but it's hard to draw conclusions without more points of comparison. For example, I don't know if Seattle would feel too small or if Chicago would feel too big, and I don't know if there's anything I chalked up to being great about city life that is actually specific to the East Coast. (I have lived in the Midwest but not the Pacific Northwest, though I have visited Seattle on a few occasions.) I have of course been asking friends and friends of friends what it's like being trans in both cities, but I have a pretty small pool to draw from.

I'm not expecting to find a paradise for gender-transgressive people, just hoping for somewhere I can be more comfortable for at least a few unusual years (though hopefully for the long term as well). My options are pretty fixed on Chicago or Seattle at the moment, so who wants to talk up (or down) one (or both) of these cities?
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (22 answers total) 7 users marked this as a favorite
 
I know some trans folks in Seattle (mtf & ftm) and they are thriving. Most transitioned there and were comfortable throughout the spectrum of their change. Seattle is a good place for trans folks, in general, with many options for socialising and a robust support system, along with a more open-minded populace, in general. Even amongst (most) geeks.

I don't know if it will feel too small, but it is close to other places to visit, as you likely recall. In my decade+ there, I found it to have enough things to do that I didn't feel the size of it limited me too much (I had come from Houston & Dallas, which made Seattle seem like a small town in comparison).

...considering the length of time I was there, I'd really like to talk more about specifics, but I'm not certain of your interests and such, so am worried I'd just be going on and on pointlessly. Feel free to memail if you'd like to know about specific things or maybe be put in contact with one of the more outreach-focused trans folks I know.

Wishing you clarity & happiness with your decision!
posted by batmonkey at 10:53 AM on June 2, 2013


I'm cis female, but I've worked with and been acquainted with a variety of trans* folks in the tech industry in Seattle over the last couple of decades, and it's pretty accepted here.
posted by matildaben at 10:59 AM on June 2, 2013


This is anecdata, and I'm a cis woman, but: I've spent time in both cities professionally, and at least in my field (law), I was left with the strong impression that Seattle was by far the more progressive and inclusive city. And given the stodginess and anachronism that generally marks the legal field, that's really saying something.

There also seem to be a relatively large number of resources and events aimed at the trans community in Seattle.
posted by sevensnowflakes at 11:37 AM on June 2, 2013


Seattle is great place for a software industry worker to find jobs and connections; while it's not Silicon Valley, I'd say it's on par with other second-level tech/startup hubs like New York or Boston.

Some acquaintances of mine just started a feminist, woman-centered, and trans- and queer-inclusive hacker/maker space in Seattle, which will hopefully be one of many useful places to find community.

I'm born and raised in Seattle and have never lived on the east coast, so I can't easily compare it to the cities there. My general impression is that Seattle has most of the practical benefits of larger cities, but it lacks a certain "feel" that you find in really large cities like New York. The people who really thrive here are the ones who love the combination of the city and the surrounding mountains, water, and wilderness.

See also this recent thread about moving to Seattle (though the personal circumstances there were quite different).
posted by mbrubeck at 11:52 AM on June 2, 2013


Chicago has better public transportation. Seattle has better weather. Both cities have LGBTQI resources.
posted by brujita at 12:21 PM on June 2, 2013


brujita is absolutely right about Seattle's inferior public transit. I should have specifically called that out as one of the exceptions to "most of the practical benefits."
posted by mbrubeck at 12:28 PM on June 2, 2013


I live in Chicago and had a transgender friend visit me a couple of times. She wasn't openly harassed and people didn't seem to treat her differently than anyone else.

However, I would not rate Chicago as a very friendly city for transgender people. For instance, there is a transgender woman at the corporation where I work and I have noticed people making comments about her as though they think it's unusual for someone to be trans. I don't think anyone would openly say anything to her, but I get the impression that some of my coworkers think she is "weird" because she is trans. I was a bit shocked by the comments of my coworkers since my friends and family are completely accepting of all types of people.

Overall, I think the average Chicagoan isn't as open minded towards transgender people as I used to think. As a comparison, I've noticed my coworkers don't think being gay is "weird" or different. Unfortunately, in my experience, being trans is still viewed as "different."
posted by parakeetdog at 1:50 PM on June 2, 2013 [2 favorites]


The Midwest is about twenty years behind the coasts in terms of culture. That said Chicago is a bigger city which means better infrastructure and job opportunities. However, since you're in tech I would go to Seattle and then try to move to somewhere in Silicon Valley. People will be more accepting their and the jobs will be better overall.
posted by ishrinkmajeans at 4:21 PM on June 2, 2013


This is a hard question to answer, because people are going to tell you about the general vibes of the cities. However, what determines how well transitioning goes for you is going to be much more specific: your neighborhood, your friends, and your coworkers. So there's always a bit of unpredictability. That said, the general vibe is like what ishrinkmajeans said: coasts are more progressive than the midwest. In addition, there's lots of tech industry happening in Seattle so if you aren't happy with your job it would probably be easier to switch. If I were you, I would choose Seattle.
posted by medusa at 4:49 PM on June 2, 2013


Chicago is a cultural oasis and a relief from the simpering teabagger hyperpsuedofriendliness one finds much elsewhere in the Midwest.

Sinclair Lewis published Babbitt 91 years ago, but it is still an accurate portrayal.
posted by brujita at 8:00 PM on June 2, 2013


Definitely do some research about the Seattle Freeze.
posted by mlis at 9:23 PM on June 2, 2013


I think Capital Hill is a good call -- should be the trans-friendliest place in a pretty trans and non-gender conforming city. When I was in high school, a group of boys wore skirts to school to protest the rule that boys were only allowed to wear pants. This was otherwise known as an inner-city school. Hopefully some of the lack of gender-caring should make it a bit easier to transition.

It's also (especially if you aim for the north end of it) close to 520 for either driving or busing to the evil empire. (Yes, I am making some assumptions based on "tech" and "suburb".) I have a few friends who work there and if you're not living in the suburb, Capital Hill or Montlake is the way to go.
posted by Margalo Epps at 10:17 PM on June 2, 2013


I'm a trans woman and I live in the city of Seattle. Yes, Seattle has the Ingersoll Center and a lot of trans people, tech jobs, and trans people in tech jobs, including me. Capitol Hill is my spiritual home.

I did work at a certain large tech company out in the burbs, and I had the might of their HR department behind me and everyone knew it. If anyone was uncomfortable about it, they kept their mouths shut. Frankly, everyone seemed too busy to care, which is the way of large tech companies. The climate at the startups around here seems more genuinely welcoming.

The biggest drawback to Seattle has already been mentioned: the commute across one of the two floating bridges on Lake Washington between 206-land (Seattle) and 425-land (Redmond, Bellevue, Kirkland, etc.).
posted by SistaWendy at 10:45 PM on June 2, 2013


I'm a cis woman living in Seattle, but I know multiple trans people living here, met through work and social pursuits. As far as I've been able to observe, they're treated with friendly acceptance. I've not seen anyone comment (whether to their faces or behind their backs) about their gender identities unless they themselves chose to raise the topic.

I also think the so-called Seattle Freeze is an exaggeration. I've met lots of people via meetup groups, classes, conventions, etc. It's true that people don't tend to have long conversations with strangers on the bus, say, but that doesn't mean they're not willing to become friends if you meet them in a social context that's about interacting. (Then again, when I lived in the "friendly" midwest, I felt like other people were minding my business to an annoying degree.)

Other positives about Seattle: generally more pleasant weather than the midwest, some excellent restaurants, and beautiful scenery. There are several excellent gaming meetup groups right on Capitol Hill. I like living here a lot.
posted by shattersock at 12:19 AM on June 3, 2013


In terms of LGBTQI resources, yes, I would say Seattle probably has a more comprehensive, intentional network for you. But this:

The Midwest is about twenty years behind the coasts in terms of culture.

Is patently untrue, especially of Chicago. I have a number of gay, lesbian, bi, and trans friends here who are thriving and thrilled with their communities. Several of them are transplants from the coasts, and wouldn't go back to NYC or LA for love or money.

It's the Second City, for cryin' out loud, it's not bumblefuck Montana.
posted by like_a_friend at 9:12 AM on June 3, 2013 [4 favorites]


I'm cis male in tech in Chicago, working downtown and living off the brown line. I recently moved into the city from the suburbs, and I love it, the walkability, the closeness of things I'm up for doing, the ease of mass transit.

There's definitely people in the city up for playing boardgames at small (or large) gatherings, and most of my interactions (that I know of) with trans people have been at those sorts of gatherings. Everyone has been perfectly fine around them, but less polite behind their backs in some of those situations.
posted by garlic at 9:55 AM on June 3, 2013


Said job would be downtown in Chicago but in the burbs in Seattle; either way I would want to live in a dense and walkable/bikeable neighborhood with decent public transit (Capitol Hill? Somewhere off the red or brown line going north?), as I am very strongly a city person. I prefer to have my own small apartment and don't plan to shack up or raise children.

Housing prices in Chicago are affordable, public transit is excellent, and there are many adorable, wonderful walkable/bikeable neighborhoods with easy access to downtown. Downtown Chicago is the hub of our transit network, so you can easily commute there by train from basically anywhere in the city. You don't say how old you are, but one extremely notable thing I've noticed in Chicago (at least among my own social circle) is that young people aren't having kids, so your social life won't suffer if you're older and unattached, and not settling down to start a family. This is in pretty sharp contrast to Southern California, where I'm from originally.

I have heard about Howard Brown and the Center on Halsted in Chicago, and I've likewise heard that Seattle is generally very trans friendly, or at least low on harassment generally. What I'd really like to know is more about how daily life works out for trans women in either of these cities. I have almost no experience presenting as anything other than a cis man (with no fashion sense) in public, and trying to get a baseline for what trans women face has just left me with a unhelpfully general sense of unease.

I don't have experience with this personally, but it seems like a lot of the LGBTQ scene in Chicago caters to young gay men. The Center on Halsted is pretty squarely in the middle of Lakeview, in an area also known as "Boystown". More generally, the city has problems with street harassment of women. Probably not uncommon in a large urban area, but I can only guess that the problems women have would be magnified for trans women. It's true that Chicago is way more progressive and vibrant than the rest of the Midwest. It's also true that Chicago is the city that most people who grew up in the Midwest flock to if they want an urban experience, so my guess is that the general tenor is going to be a little less progressive and trans-tolerant than Seattle.

I would not be entirely socially isolated in either city, but I would need to make at least a few friends to feel comfortable, and my usual approach to making friends is to use OkCupid (I'm also non-monogamous). I prefer small gatherings where people play board games to large gatherings where people get wasted; I don't avoid alcohol, but I'm rather uncomfortable in situations where drunkenness is celebrated, where getting drunk is seen as a goal and/or a requirement for openness in socialization.

People drink a heck of a lot in Chicago, but board games are extremely popular too, and you can get into that scene really easily by attending board game nights/meetups. People are so ridiculously friendly and outgoing here. It's very easy to make friends, and the board game community is very open and welcoming.

My significant city living experience was in Philadelphia, which I enjoyed quite a bit (except for the summer humidity), but it's hard to draw conclusions without more points of comparison. For example, I don't know if Seattle would feel too small or if Chicago would feel too big...

Chicago's humidity in the summer is dreadful (actually, I love it, but people who dislike humidity tell me that it's dreadful). For a big city, though, it feels anything but big. Chicago has a very small-town feel to it for how large it is, and it constantly amazes me that I can just randomly bump into people I know while out and about, even though I've only lived here a few years. On the other hand, it's big enough that there's a lot to do and a lot of scenes to get involved in, so you're never stagnating.
posted by booknerd at 9:59 AM on June 3, 2013 [1 favorite]


It's also true that Chicago is the city that most people who grew up in the Midwest flock to if they want an urban experience, so my guess is that the general tenor is going to be a little less progressive and trans-tolerant than Seattle.

Yeah. I live in Chicago and I would tell you to move to Seattle. Most of the Chicagoans I've met can be surprisingly conservative. I like living here (cis woman) but I don't know if I would advise anyone to move here.
posted by bleep at 11:39 AM on June 3, 2013


Most of the Chicagoans I've met can be surprisingly conservative.

Funny, I live here in Chicago and have the exact opposite experience.
posted by Windigo at 2:00 PM on June 3, 2013 [1 favorite]


I moved to Chicago from ultra-liberal Upper West Side NYC, and Chicago is decidedly NOT conservative. Maybe bleep is in the 'burbs?

I also love Chicago, FWIW.
posted by walla at 4:34 PM on June 3, 2013


I don't live in the burbs but I guess the big corporations I work for have a lot of burb-dwellers.
posted by bleep at 6:03 PM on June 3, 2013


Also cis female living in Seattle with a number of trans* friends. I say come here. Capitol Hill is getting really expensive, and the weird is about to be priced out, but it's still good, and if you're in tech you might actually be able to afford both a studio there and food. (Yeah, I live in the Central District now.) However, it's an especially genderwhatever-friendly and welcoming neighborhood in what I have always found to be a vey welcoming city, and very walkable, and well-served by such public transit as there is. So, yes, good idea.

This Seattle Freeze thing? I have never experienced it, and I have no idea what people are talking about. So don't put too much importance on that.

But yes. I've only ever visited Chicago, and I am sure there are a lot of positive things about that town as well. (The winters not being one of them.) I can, however, recommend Seattle as really, really appropriate for someone transitioning.

I kinda love this town.
posted by Because at 4:39 AM on June 5, 2013


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