Help us decide whether to move across the country for the job
April 7, 2013 4:15 PM Subscribe
My partner has been offered a job in Seattle, and we don’t know whether or not she should take it.
We just bought our second house in North Carolina. We love it here. Our family is all on the east coast, at varying distances from us. We have a great network of friends here, we love our daycare, I can keep my job when we move (I work from home), and my partner likes her job just fine…
…but this new job would make us $50k more a year, which is around a 50% increase for my partner.
On the side of moving: Seattle, or at least the area around it, is apparently lovely. I have strong reservations about the weather there, as I love my hot summers, but everyone we mention this to says “it’s such a lovely, great place to live!” North Carolina passed an amendment a couple of years ago defining marriage as one man and one woman; we (both women, with a child) could get married in Washington and I wouldn’t have to worry about my legal status with my kid. Besides that, NC’s legislature has apparently gone crazy. That much more money would, it seems to us, be a huge positive, though I will point out that we already make enough money that I feel we shouldn’t be stressed about money, ever, though we tend to be, anyway. It would be a positive move for my partner’s career, for sure, though she would be a small fish in a big pond rather than a big fish in a small pond like she is now. Also: The adventure of it. I swear, ten years ago I would be all “let’s go! Of course!” But now I am older and I have a kid and I feel like I have roots here and it’s just harder to genuinely feel that way, and also, if it was somewhere like Paris or London or NYC and this was the same kind of money increase with enough to also cover the cost of living change I’d say “heck yeah!” I’ve just never really dreamed of living in Seattle.
On the side of not moving: Our family and our friends are here, and I keep coming back to this idea that I want my son to be surrounded by people who love him. I am sure we can find friends again in Seattle—we are persistent and good at that sort of thing—but it will take time and it’s chancy and we’re still leaving family behind. Neither of us is super close to our family, but having them able to come up for our kid’s birthday and so forth is worth a lot to us. Also, my partner got a pretty bad vibe from one of her interviews—and it was from the guy who’d be her direct supervisor. That is a little worrying; a bad boss or coworker can make life hell, even with an extra $50k a year. It’s a little annoying that we’d have to sell this house and move again after we just did all this, but the moving package they’re offering is amazing and the difference in salary plus the inconvenience cash they’re offering quickly makes up for any loss we’d take on the house (and it’s possible we wouldn’t take a loss), and really, this sort of one time issue shouldn’t make a decision like this.
So, help us. What would you do?
We just bought our second house in North Carolina. We love it here. Our family is all on the east coast, at varying distances from us. We have a great network of friends here, we love our daycare, I can keep my job when we move (I work from home), and my partner likes her job just fine…
…but this new job would make us $50k more a year, which is around a 50% increase for my partner.
On the side of moving: Seattle, or at least the area around it, is apparently lovely. I have strong reservations about the weather there, as I love my hot summers, but everyone we mention this to says “it’s such a lovely, great place to live!” North Carolina passed an amendment a couple of years ago defining marriage as one man and one woman; we (both women, with a child) could get married in Washington and I wouldn’t have to worry about my legal status with my kid. Besides that, NC’s legislature has apparently gone crazy. That much more money would, it seems to us, be a huge positive, though I will point out that we already make enough money that I feel we shouldn’t be stressed about money, ever, though we tend to be, anyway. It would be a positive move for my partner’s career, for sure, though she would be a small fish in a big pond rather than a big fish in a small pond like she is now. Also: The adventure of it. I swear, ten years ago I would be all “let’s go! Of course!” But now I am older and I have a kid and I feel like I have roots here and it’s just harder to genuinely feel that way, and also, if it was somewhere like Paris or London or NYC and this was the same kind of money increase with enough to also cover the cost of living change I’d say “heck yeah!” I’ve just never really dreamed of living in Seattle.
On the side of not moving: Our family and our friends are here, and I keep coming back to this idea that I want my son to be surrounded by people who love him. I am sure we can find friends again in Seattle—we are persistent and good at that sort of thing—but it will take time and it’s chancy and we’re still leaving family behind. Neither of us is super close to our family, but having them able to come up for our kid’s birthday and so forth is worth a lot to us. Also, my partner got a pretty bad vibe from one of her interviews—and it was from the guy who’d be her direct supervisor. That is a little worrying; a bad boss or coworker can make life hell, even with an extra $50k a year. It’s a little annoying that we’d have to sell this house and move again after we just did all this, but the moving package they’re offering is amazing and the difference in salary plus the inconvenience cash they’re offering quickly makes up for any loss we’d take on the house (and it’s possible we wouldn’t take a loss), and really, this sort of one time issue shouldn’t make a decision like this.
So, help us. What would you do?
Bad future boss = dealbreaker.
posted by ergo at 4:39 PM on April 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by ergo at 4:39 PM on April 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
Best answer: my partner got a pretty bad vibe from one of her interviews
I would give this way more weight on the Cons side of the list than, say the kid not having everyone love him. I got moved around a lot as a kid and grew up feeling like I always had a good number of people (adults and peers) who cared about me, so that I think is less of a concern - and it's a thing you have more direct control over than a potentially bad boss.
posted by rtha at 4:44 PM on April 7, 2013 [5 favorites]
I would give this way more weight on the Cons side of the list than, say the kid not having everyone love him. I got moved around a lot as a kid and grew up feeling like I always had a good number of people (adults and peers) who cared about me, so that I think is less of a concern - and it's a thing you have more direct control over than a potentially bad boss.
posted by rtha at 4:44 PM on April 7, 2013 [5 favorites]
Consider the difference in cost of living as well as the dollar difference in the salary! A calculator online says that a $100,000 salary in Seattle is equivalent to a $65,000 salary in the city in your profile, so the potential raise isn't as large as it sounds on paper.
In particular, consider the housing costs -- a house equivalent to your current house in NC is likely to either be much more expensive or have a much longer commute for your partner (or both).
The weather is also a really legitimate concern. I live in Seattle and I complain if it hits 80 degrees now, but the first year was horrendous. In addition to the cooler weather, we get significantly less sunlight than most of the country which is really, really hard on some people.
I live in Seattle and I love it, but it really doesn't sound like you guys are very excited about moving here, especially with the potentially terrible boss.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 4:54 PM on April 7, 2013 [6 favorites]
In particular, consider the housing costs -- a house equivalent to your current house in NC is likely to either be much more expensive or have a much longer commute for your partner (or both).
The weather is also a really legitimate concern. I live in Seattle and I complain if it hits 80 degrees now, but the first year was horrendous. In addition to the cooler weather, we get significantly less sunlight than most of the country which is really, really hard on some people.
I live in Seattle and I love it, but it really doesn't sound like you guys are very excited about moving here, especially with the potentially terrible boss.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 4:54 PM on April 7, 2013 [6 favorites]
Best answer: Consider that there's a sizable cost of living increase for Seattle that may eat up some/all of that "extra" 50k. I don't know what part of North Carolina you're in, but I lived around Raleigh for a while and our old apartment is about $800/month. By contrast, when I lived in Seattle, our apartment was $1400/month, plus parking because we lived in-town. Look at comparable houses before you make this jump, you may have some serious sticker shock if you think you'll want to buy up there.
As for the weather, here's the thing: When it is nice, it is really, really nice. When the sun is out, Seattle is one of the nicest places I have ever been and I've been all over the world. However, the sun isn't really out that often. There's a joke to the effect of for one week a year, Seattle is wonderful and everyone goes nuts about how great the weather is, and the rest of the time you're living in a Tim Burton movie. It's not that much of a joke. Put simply: How comfortable are you with grey and drizzly? Because you're going to see it a lot. My Twitter timeline regularly lights up when it's sunny in Seattle because it's so unexpected everyone freaks out and gets excited. I am not joking or exaggerating.
As for the quality of life, yeah, Seattle is the place I've felt the most comfortable both politically and in terms of overall comfort with the people around me and the atmosphere was great. If you're liberal/lefty at all, it's fantastic. The food is great, the environment is great, there's tons of stuff to do, and you don't have to worry about them trying to pass a state religion and the other things NC's legislature has been up to. You're not a weirdo if you want more equality and fairness for everyone. With that said, North Carolina's demographics are changing rapidly and this could (could!) just be the death spirals of the Old Guard frantically clinging to what shreds they can pull together.
As for the boss, I can tell you at one point I worked at a job where I was massively overpaid. Like I'd buy everything I wanted or needed and be sitting there looking at my bank account like "What the hell do I do with all this money?!" But my boss was godawful. And I quit, because all the money in the world was not worth putting up with her bullshit. My job now pays close to 20 grand less a year and I consider it a "not having to put up with her shit" tax that's well-paid and worth every cent.
As for what I'd do, I can tell you I feel the call of the nomad and I bounced all over the place in my 20s. I've been in Austin for 2 years and still get jittery thinking about packing my car up and moving across the country again. But I have gotten older and am at the point where I'm only moving if it's a great jump in title or pay AND I feel great about the company and situation. I've turned down 3 offers this year because they failed one (or more) of those criteria, even though they were objectively great jobs. There's a psychic virtue in stability and putting down roots and old friends and family and there's a point where it's going to outweigh the adventure of it. Honestly, for me, "adventure" has been replaced with "Christ, moving is a hassle."
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 4:59 PM on April 7, 2013 [14 favorites]
As for the weather, here's the thing: When it is nice, it is really, really nice. When the sun is out, Seattle is one of the nicest places I have ever been and I've been all over the world. However, the sun isn't really out that often. There's a joke to the effect of for one week a year, Seattle is wonderful and everyone goes nuts about how great the weather is, and the rest of the time you're living in a Tim Burton movie. It's not that much of a joke. Put simply: How comfortable are you with grey and drizzly? Because you're going to see it a lot. My Twitter timeline regularly lights up when it's sunny in Seattle because it's so unexpected everyone freaks out and gets excited. I am not joking or exaggerating.
As for the quality of life, yeah, Seattle is the place I've felt the most comfortable both politically and in terms of overall comfort with the people around me and the atmosphere was great. If you're liberal/lefty at all, it's fantastic. The food is great, the environment is great, there's tons of stuff to do, and you don't have to worry about them trying to pass a state religion and the other things NC's legislature has been up to. You're not a weirdo if you want more equality and fairness for everyone. With that said, North Carolina's demographics are changing rapidly and this could (could!) just be the death spirals of the Old Guard frantically clinging to what shreds they can pull together.
As for the boss, I can tell you at one point I worked at a job where I was massively overpaid. Like I'd buy everything I wanted or needed and be sitting there looking at my bank account like "What the hell do I do with all this money?!" But my boss was godawful. And I quit, because all the money in the world was not worth putting up with her bullshit. My job now pays close to 20 grand less a year and I consider it a "not having to put up with her shit" tax that's well-paid and worth every cent.
As for what I'd do, I can tell you I feel the call of the nomad and I bounced all over the place in my 20s. I've been in Austin for 2 years and still get jittery thinking about packing my car up and moving across the country again. But I have gotten older and am at the point where I'm only moving if it's a great jump in title or pay AND I feel great about the company and situation. I've turned down 3 offers this year because they failed one (or more) of those criteria, even though they were objectively great jobs. There's a psychic virtue in stability and putting down roots and old friends and family and there's a point where it's going to outweigh the adventure of it. Honestly, for me, "adventure" has been replaced with "Christ, moving is a hassle."
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 4:59 PM on April 7, 2013 [14 favorites]
Just another voice on the weather: several years ago I moved to Seattle from the midwest with my then-partner for two years. The first year was mostly dealable, weather-wise - but it was a drought year. The second, "normal" year was brutal for all the reasons Ghostride notes above. I now live in San Francisco where foggy grey skies are no stranger, but the skies in Seattle wintertime months (Octoberish-Mayish) were not only grey and drizzly, they were LOW. As in, the sky felt like it was only mere feet above my head. I love the PNW and had visited family often when I was younger so I didn't think it would affect me so much - but, it did. We moved at the end of two years because neither of us could handle it. SAD light boxes can only do so much.
You say that you love hot summers (as do I) but you might want to seriously think further about how much (or little) you need the light of the sun. I've found that although the Bay Area can be foggy and grey we get enough sun here to feed my soul. If the sun is what you need to live happily I do not think you'll be happy in Seattle, as gorgeous and amazing as it is.
posted by hapax_legomenon at 5:25 PM on April 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
You say that you love hot summers (as do I) but you might want to seriously think further about how much (or little) you need the light of the sun. I've found that although the Bay Area can be foggy and grey we get enough sun here to feed my soul. If the sun is what you need to live happily I do not think you'll be happy in Seattle, as gorgeous and amazing as it is.
posted by hapax_legomenon at 5:25 PM on April 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I think that there's no amount of money that can replace a strong network of friends. It is not all that easy to make them past a certain stage of life and you don't really know how much you'll miss that network til it's gone... when people have kids and work all day, there often is just not much time or bandwidth left for making new friends. (Effortful, "let's get out there and meet some people" kind of friends -- sure. The kind of friends that it's a relief to be able to hang out with -- not so much.) Also, factoring in the cost of living (including real estate, which is a huge difference) it sounds like it won't really increase your quality of life.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:40 PM on April 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:40 PM on April 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: To add more to what people say about the weather, it's cloudy 200 days and partly cloudy 90 days a year. It's rainy (or misting or foggy enough for measurable precipitation) 152 days a year. That leaves only about 70 sunny days a year. We're not kidding when we talk about sunbreaks here. Also, if I'm dying for some heat in the summer, I travel to the East Coast. The average summer high is 75. (If it gets about 85, it's a heat wave and there are warnings about finding places with A/C to stay during the day.) Also, I have heard some newcomers have trouble with the Seattle Freeze (no, not snow, that happens every three years for a day or two if we're lucky). I can't really speak to that, possibly because being raised here I'm more aware of the weird way we make friends here (slowly). It's also just harder to make friends after a certain age. I think all this would be a hard move without you being pretty excited about it.
posted by Margalo Epps at 5:45 PM on April 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Margalo Epps at 5:45 PM on April 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
Go with your gut. Imagine how you would feel 1 year from now if you had stayed and then 1 year from now if you moved.
I would take it. If you don't like it, you can always make your way back. Change can be healthy for a child. Adventure is good.
posted by myselfasme at 5:47 PM on April 7, 2013
I would take it. If you don't like it, you can always make your way back. Change can be healthy for a child. Adventure is good.
posted by myselfasme at 5:47 PM on April 7, 2013
I moved to Seattle in 1987 (from Colorado - with 360 sunny days/year).
The weather likely won't kill you. It can be grey, but your skin will love it (very low incidence of skin cancer).
People can be a little cool as well, like the weather, but with a child you'll have an automatic ice-breaker.
There's a vibrant LGBTQ community, and most of the rest of us are very accepting. If you can live a bit outside Seattle proper, you can find great deals on housing.
If you really crave sunny/hot weather in the summer, it's as close as a two-hour drive to eastern Washington, which is almost like another state. Seriously, eastern Washington and Oregon have sunny, HOT summers, snow in the winter, and nice spring/falls; western Washington/Oregon are rainy, gray, and seldom freeze.
That's the other thing -you don't have to scrape rain off your windshield or shovel it from walk.
It's really a nice place, is what I'm trying to say.
posted by dbmcd at 6:05 PM on April 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
The weather likely won't kill you. It can be grey, but your skin will love it (very low incidence of skin cancer).
People can be a little cool as well, like the weather, but with a child you'll have an automatic ice-breaker.
There's a vibrant LGBTQ community, and most of the rest of us are very accepting. If you can live a bit outside Seattle proper, you can find great deals on housing.
If you really crave sunny/hot weather in the summer, it's as close as a two-hour drive to eastern Washington, which is almost like another state. Seriously, eastern Washington and Oregon have sunny, HOT summers, snow in the winter, and nice spring/falls; western Washington/Oregon are rainy, gray, and seldom freeze.
That's the other thing -you don't have to scrape rain off your windshield or shovel it from walk.
It's really a nice place, is what I'm trying to say.
posted by dbmcd at 6:05 PM on April 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: The cost of living issue is a big one--we aren't in Durham these days, we're in Chapel Hill. Cost of living calculators give me anywhere from a 2% to a 20% difference. The real question is the cost of housing, right, and when I look at realtor.com, I see that we could get a house pretty comparable to ours in an okay neighborhood (not a swank one) without paying too much more.
However--and this is a big however--I don't know about school districts there. I am about to start trying to figure that out.
Also, oy, the weather. I should confess that I am definitely less in favor of this than my partner, though she's not all "woo let's go!" We tried doing a very serious coin toss, earlier, to suss out our real feelings, and discovered that our guts were telling us different things.
In a perfect world, we'd just use this to negotiate a higher salary for her here. We may end up making that gamble.
posted by hought20 at 6:13 PM on April 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
However--and this is a big however--I don't know about school districts there. I am about to start trying to figure that out.
Also, oy, the weather. I should confess that I am definitely less in favor of this than my partner, though she's not all "woo let's go!" We tried doing a very serious coin toss, earlier, to suss out our real feelings, and discovered that our guts were telling us different things.
In a perfect world, we'd just use this to negotiate a higher salary for her here. We may end up making that gamble.
posted by hought20 at 6:13 PM on April 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
The one thing that would push it to me would be if you were worried about your kid's legal status in NC rather than WA. That might be worth it if you felt there was some danger to your family. Otherwise, you really sound like you want to stay.
posted by emjaybee at 6:14 PM on April 7, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 6:14 PM on April 7, 2013 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I moved to Seattle from NJ four years ago. I didn't think I would like it. But I LOVE it! But it took me at least a year to adjust to the weather and the different culture.
So many wonderful things about this area. So many great neighborhoods. People read, and think, and value community. Wonderful year-round farmers markets. And I've learned to love the climate.
Challenging issues:
If your kid is near school age, think carefully about schools. If you want public schools, the best districts have very difficult housing situations. Competitive bidding on a short supply of houses. And rental prices are high all over. (Me-mail me if you want the name of my real estate agent.)
Many people think it's hard to make friends here. I disagree. I've built my social life through Meetup.com and volunteer work. People tend to be reserved. I think this area has more introverts. Engaging in topical or goal-oriented activities yields connections.
Traffic congestion is very bad here. Get clear on the commuting picture before choosing a neighborhood. The region has an east side and a west side, with Lake Washington in between. In general, it's advisable that you live and work on the same side of the Lake.
If your political views are conservative, or even moderate, you may feel like you don't fit in the City of Seattle. Outside the city, it's more ideologically diverse.
[If perchance, your partner is going to work for Amazon, I suggest you talk to as many Amazon employees as you can. Network through your Linkedin and university alumni directories. Amazon has a distinct corporate culture that may not be for everyone. ]
posted by valannc at 7:12 PM on April 7, 2013 [4 favorites]
So many wonderful things about this area. So many great neighborhoods. People read, and think, and value community. Wonderful year-round farmers markets. And I've learned to love the climate.
Challenging issues:
If your kid is near school age, think carefully about schools. If you want public schools, the best districts have very difficult housing situations. Competitive bidding on a short supply of houses. And rental prices are high all over. (Me-mail me if you want the name of my real estate agent.)
Many people think it's hard to make friends here. I disagree. I've built my social life through Meetup.com and volunteer work. People tend to be reserved. I think this area has more introverts. Engaging in topical or goal-oriented activities yields connections.
Traffic congestion is very bad here. Get clear on the commuting picture before choosing a neighborhood. The region has an east side and a west side, with Lake Washington in between. In general, it's advisable that you live and work on the same side of the Lake.
If your political views are conservative, or even moderate, you may feel like you don't fit in the City of Seattle. Outside the city, it's more ideologically diverse.
[If perchance, your partner is going to work for Amazon, I suggest you talk to as many Amazon employees as you can. Network through your Linkedin and university alumni directories. Amazon has a distinct corporate culture that may not be for everyone. ]
posted by valannc at 7:12 PM on April 7, 2013 [4 favorites]
I grew up in NC and went to college in WA. Never got used to the weather. The rain is OK; it's the darkness of the clouds that I hated.
posted by scose at 7:18 PM on April 7, 2013
posted by scose at 7:18 PM on April 7, 2013
Response by poster: Okay, it is not easy to really understand a real estate market without living somewhere. I have vague ideas about which school districts are best, but those ideas are only vague.
If anybody reading this knows, please help: How much would we need to spend on a house to make sure we ended up in a good school district? We just moved to Chapel Hill (which has really good schools) exactly for this reason, and we are not going to move to Seattle only to settle into a mediocre district because we're priced out of a good one.
posted by hought20 at 7:22 PM on April 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
If anybody reading this knows, please help: How much would we need to spend on a house to make sure we ended up in a good school district? We just moved to Chapel Hill (which has really good schools) exactly for this reason, and we are not going to move to Seattle only to settle into a mediocre district because we're priced out of a good one.
posted by hought20 at 7:22 PM on April 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I can't speak to anything about house buying, but after hearing about how my friend can't sell her condo in SoCal when they had to move out of state for work...ah, maybe you guys might want to rent for awhile? My friend is totally financially screwed right now because they bought and then the crash hit and they are strung out across two states. Just a thought.
Beyond that: I can only come up with two major reasons for you not to move: the weather and the bad vibe. The weather would really, really give me pause because i can't take the chilly of SF, much less Seattle, but then again, the state legal benefits and your kid might be worth moving. Possibly enough to trump the weather for me if I were gay-married. I would bet that you can find awesome people in Seattle, and if you're not super close to your relatives anyway that might not be as big of a deal. Plus hell, I just got off Skyping with my East Coast relatives, so that's doable.
I would be inclined to tell you guys to move EXCEPT for the bad vibe about the future direct supervisor. If you are going to uproot your entire lives and move to DarkyMcCloudvilleChillypantsLand, that job better be damn spectacular and your SO should be chomping at the bit to work there. I would try to investigate further how bad that boss would be before you commit.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:35 PM on April 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Beyond that: I can only come up with two major reasons for you not to move: the weather and the bad vibe. The weather would really, really give me pause because i can't take the chilly of SF, much less Seattle, but then again, the state legal benefits and your kid might be worth moving. Possibly enough to trump the weather for me if I were gay-married. I would bet that you can find awesome people in Seattle, and if you're not super close to your relatives anyway that might not be as big of a deal. Plus hell, I just got off Skyping with my East Coast relatives, so that's doable.
I would be inclined to tell you guys to move EXCEPT for the bad vibe about the future direct supervisor. If you are going to uproot your entire lives and move to DarkyMcCloudvilleChillypantsLand, that job better be damn spectacular and your SO should be chomping at the bit to work there. I would try to investigate further how bad that boss would be before you commit.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:35 PM on April 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: If you do move, absolutely plan to rent for at least a short while while you house-hunt. Because you're right, you simply cannot make sufficient judgments about what's right for you until you're on the ground. This is a totally normal thing for executive type people to do - short-term rental, house-hunt with a local realtor, check it out for yourself.
I agree with those who say the biggest issue to probe here is the bad vibe. Put all your attention on this. Seattle's weather would probably make me miserable, and I hate leaving good friends, but that stuff can be managed and overcome if all else is good. With a bad work life, though, the rest of life will offer no relief. That's a real concern. Explore more. It seems like it all kind of hinges on this. Money's just money. Unless this is a place your SO is dying to work, a real life-changing career opportunity, don't make a rash leap. If the reason for this move would be the job and only the job - nothing else - then that job ought to not be throwing up red flags before you even face all the other challenges of a relocation.
posted by Miko at 7:45 PM on April 7, 2013 [4 favorites]
I agree with those who say the biggest issue to probe here is the bad vibe. Put all your attention on this. Seattle's weather would probably make me miserable, and I hate leaving good friends, but that stuff can be managed and overcome if all else is good. With a bad work life, though, the rest of life will offer no relief. That's a real concern. Explore more. It seems like it all kind of hinges on this. Money's just money. Unless this is a place your SO is dying to work, a real life-changing career opportunity, don't make a rash leap. If the reason for this move would be the job and only the job - nothing else - then that job ought to not be throwing up red flags before you even face all the other challenges of a relocation.
posted by Miko at 7:45 PM on April 7, 2013 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I have found that personally, things never turned out the way I thought. I got a job in a southern state that I was very "judgey" about as a yankee -- I thought people would be dumb and ignorantly conservative. In my interviews, I thought the people seemed a little cold/unfriendly and I worried I would be uncomfortable with my co-workers. In the end, everything I worried about was the opposite. I LOVED living in this southern state because people were unpretentious and friendly yet still smart and liberal (at least on my city). The people I interviewed with seemed cold because they are straight-shooters who didn't fake anything -- my kind of people -- and I ended up getting a long with them great, spent many days laughing and still consider them friends.
I had the exact other experience with a job I took in the northeast. I envisioned it to be an area full of intelligent, liberal, wealthy people and high quality of life standards. (I got a huge raise to go there.) I thought the people I'd be working with would be the best of the best and I'd learn best practices. In the end, I found the people in the area snobby and the lifestyle unmanageable for me (too dense, way overpriced, not enough roads, everything I needed to do was inconvenient to get to, buildings were dirty and old). My co-workers were worse -- completely incompetent, no organizational structure, no strategic planning of any kind, everyone out to make themselves look good rather than work as a team, zero communication within the organization, ideas I offered for improvements were routinely ignored, etc. I was so thrilled about the job before I left and had such high hopes, but within a couple months, I found myself completely miserable and I got to the point were I couldn't take it and left within six months.
For me, these two job experiences taught me that you never really know what to expect when you go into a situation you haven't lived before. I think you should focus on the things you know for sure. You know you will make more money. You know this is a promotion for your partner that should look better on a resume and move her up in her career. You know you won't have your family around and will see them less. You know you will need your son to switch schools (if he's at that age.) You know you will be able to marry in Seattle but not in NC. You should also think about contingency -- if you did hate it, would you be able to deal with that? Could your partner find a new job? Rather than buy a house, maybe rent for a year until your partner is sure she plans to be there for the long-haul too. I'd think about those sorts of things and then see if Seattle is something that could work for you. Maybe you love certain things about NC that are opposite of Seattle, but you may love things about Seattle you can't know about until you experience. Then again, maybe you will hate it. All I am saying is, you cannot predict that sort of feeling so you should think about what your options are.
Best of luck to you and your family.
posted by AppleTurnover at 8:03 PM on April 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
I had the exact other experience with a job I took in the northeast. I envisioned it to be an area full of intelligent, liberal, wealthy people and high quality of life standards. (I got a huge raise to go there.) I thought the people I'd be working with would be the best of the best and I'd learn best practices. In the end, I found the people in the area snobby and the lifestyle unmanageable for me (too dense, way overpriced, not enough roads, everything I needed to do was inconvenient to get to, buildings were dirty and old). My co-workers were worse -- completely incompetent, no organizational structure, no strategic planning of any kind, everyone out to make themselves look good rather than work as a team, zero communication within the organization, ideas I offered for improvements were routinely ignored, etc. I was so thrilled about the job before I left and had such high hopes, but within a couple months, I found myself completely miserable and I got to the point were I couldn't take it and left within six months.
For me, these two job experiences taught me that you never really know what to expect when you go into a situation you haven't lived before. I think you should focus on the things you know for sure. You know you will make more money. You know this is a promotion for your partner that should look better on a resume and move her up in her career. You know you won't have your family around and will see them less. You know you will need your son to switch schools (if he's at that age.) You know you will be able to marry in Seattle but not in NC. You should also think about contingency -- if you did hate it, would you be able to deal with that? Could your partner find a new job? Rather than buy a house, maybe rent for a year until your partner is sure she plans to be there for the long-haul too. I'd think about those sorts of things and then see if Seattle is something that could work for you. Maybe you love certain things about NC that are opposite of Seattle, but you may love things about Seattle you can't know about until you experience. Then again, maybe you will hate it. All I am saying is, you cannot predict that sort of feeling so you should think about what your options are.
Best of luck to you and your family.
posted by AppleTurnover at 8:03 PM on April 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I went to college at UNC in the early 90s, moved to western NC after graduation, and then moved to Carrboro for grad school at UNC. My husband, two kids, and I left Carrboro in 2007 and have been in Portland, Oregon for about three and a half years now (we lived overseas for a couple of years in between). So, here are a few random thoughts that might or might not be helpful.
For what it's worth, I adore Carrboro and Chapel Hill (but especially Carrboro). Plus I do have some family in NC. But I really love Portland. The weather is an adjustment, but it's not necessarily bad, just different. First of all: summers. I know you said you love hot summers, and if that's true, there's really no replacement. But, as someone who got a bit tired of the crazy heat and humidity in a Piedmont summer, I can say that summers in the PNW are absolutely spectacular: warm days, no rain (like, hardly ever), and no humidity. Seriously, you really can't beat summers out here -- and summers go from July through mid-October.
As for the rest of the year: it can be a bit drizzly and gray, but it usually doesn't pour down rain. I was surprised to learn that Portland and Seattle actually get less rain than Atlanta, Raleigh, DC, etc. It's just that we get it in small, drizzly doses. In the Piedmont, you get big storms with thunder and lightning. Out here, you get drizzles as the clouds hit the Cascades. You tend not to need an umbrella so much as a coat with a good hood. It also means people tend to be out and about more in all kinds of weather, which is nice.
The scenery is spectacular, as is the proximity to the mountains and the coast. In the Piedmont, you think, "We're close to everything -- a few hours to the beach and a few hours to the mountains!" But here you are ridiculously close. From Seattle you have crazy amazing views of spectacular Mt. Rainier, and you can be in mountains in such a short time. And you're already so near the coast. So I'm going to give the PNW a win for proximity to different geographies and scenery.
After living in Portland for a few years, I think Chapel Hill and Carrboro would seem so small. Seattle has tons of neighborhoods that have a great vibe like downtown Carrboro or Franklin Street. And I say this, again, as someone who bleeds Carolina blue.
In terms of relationship issues: since your job could go anywhere, I say go for it. You can always go back, maybe not exactly when you want, but eventually. If you turn this down, will your partner always wonder, "What if?" Will she resent you?
Your child is young enough that this won't be a huge impact. Elementary schools everywhere tend to be fine, so I don't think you are taking a huge risk, even if you don't end up in exactly the neighborhood you want.
If you move, the worst case scenario is probably that you won't love it and will want to move back, after you've had a year or two to explore a great city. But there's also a real possibility that you will love it (so many people who move out here do).
Good luck with your decision.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:09 PM on April 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
For what it's worth, I adore Carrboro and Chapel Hill (but especially Carrboro). Plus I do have some family in NC. But I really love Portland. The weather is an adjustment, but it's not necessarily bad, just different. First of all: summers. I know you said you love hot summers, and if that's true, there's really no replacement. But, as someone who got a bit tired of the crazy heat and humidity in a Piedmont summer, I can say that summers in the PNW are absolutely spectacular: warm days, no rain (like, hardly ever), and no humidity. Seriously, you really can't beat summers out here -- and summers go from July through mid-October.
As for the rest of the year: it can be a bit drizzly and gray, but it usually doesn't pour down rain. I was surprised to learn that Portland and Seattle actually get less rain than Atlanta, Raleigh, DC, etc. It's just that we get it in small, drizzly doses. In the Piedmont, you get big storms with thunder and lightning. Out here, you get drizzles as the clouds hit the Cascades. You tend not to need an umbrella so much as a coat with a good hood. It also means people tend to be out and about more in all kinds of weather, which is nice.
The scenery is spectacular, as is the proximity to the mountains and the coast. In the Piedmont, you think, "We're close to everything -- a few hours to the beach and a few hours to the mountains!" But here you are ridiculously close. From Seattle you have crazy amazing views of spectacular Mt. Rainier, and you can be in mountains in such a short time. And you're already so near the coast. So I'm going to give the PNW a win for proximity to different geographies and scenery.
After living in Portland for a few years, I think Chapel Hill and Carrboro would seem so small. Seattle has tons of neighborhoods that have a great vibe like downtown Carrboro or Franklin Street. And I say this, again, as someone who bleeds Carolina blue.
In terms of relationship issues: since your job could go anywhere, I say go for it. You can always go back, maybe not exactly when you want, but eventually. If you turn this down, will your partner always wonder, "What if?" Will she resent you?
Your child is young enough that this won't be a huge impact. Elementary schools everywhere tend to be fine, so I don't think you are taking a huge risk, even if you don't end up in exactly the neighborhood you want.
If you move, the worst case scenario is probably that you won't love it and will want to move back, after you've had a year or two to explore a great city. But there's also a real possibility that you will love it (so many people who move out here do).
Good luck with your decision.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:09 PM on April 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
Have you both been out to Seattle? I would suggest that be part of the process. If they are offering relocation, they shouldn't balk at a house-hunting trip that includes you.
The summers in the PNW are awesome and the Cascades around Seattle are beautiful as is Puget Sound. You are relatively close to Vancouver, BC and also Portland, Oregon (where I live).
Two women or two men raising a child shouldn't raise any eyebrows out here which might be important to your child as he/she gets older.
From a career standpoint -- being in a big pond can be very useful for your career -- especially if this is a company known for employee development. A big pond brings opportunities to move around within the company. And if your partner is in high tech, Seattle has a lot of other companies to go work for.
posted by elmay at 8:29 PM on April 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
The summers in the PNW are awesome and the Cascades around Seattle are beautiful as is Puget Sound. You are relatively close to Vancouver, BC and also Portland, Oregon (where I live).
Two women or two men raising a child shouldn't raise any eyebrows out here which might be important to your child as he/she gets older.
From a career standpoint -- being in a big pond can be very useful for your career -- especially if this is a company known for employee development. A big pond brings opportunities to move around within the company. And if your partner is in high tech, Seattle has a lot of other companies to go work for.
posted by elmay at 8:29 PM on April 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: In my interviews, I thought the people seemed a little cold/unfriendly and I worried I would be uncomfortable with my co-workers. In the end, everything I worried about was the opposite.
Apple Turnover makes a good point! I'm sure I come off as humorless and overly stern when I interview people, but this is because my manager is too nice and wants to hire everyone we interview. She will literally prime people with the answers to her questions because she wants everyone to do well, so I have to be the mean one! Did your partner meet any of her future peers during the interview process? Did they seem like their lives were hell, or did they seem like they liked their jobs?
Also, if you move here and go through the process of a second-parent adoption, would North Carolina recognize the out-of-state adoption if you moved back, even though they don't allow second-parent adoptions there? (I couldn't find out with some cursory googling.)
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 8:35 PM on April 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
Apple Turnover makes a good point! I'm sure I come off as humorless and overly stern when I interview people, but this is because my manager is too nice and wants to hire everyone we interview. She will literally prime people with the answers to her questions because she wants everyone to do well, so I have to be the mean one! Did your partner meet any of her future peers during the interview process? Did they seem like their lives were hell, or did they seem like they liked their jobs?
Also, if you move here and go through the process of a second-parent adoption, would North Carolina recognize the out-of-state adoption if you moved back, even though they don't allow second-parent adoptions there? (I couldn't find out with some cursory googling.)
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 8:35 PM on April 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I think the way you posed the question may bias the answers you receive; even most of your list of pros of moving to Seattle come off like cons. Would your partner word this question differently? If so, would you arrive at different answers? Otherwise, it seems from the tenor of your question that you really do not want to move. Then don't.
But I would also add that an important factor to consider is not just whether same-sex marriage is legal, but how accepted your child will feel by his/her peers. Even if marriage equality becomes the legal norm across the country in the next few years (which is far from sure) my hunch is that your child will tread an easier road in Seattle than NC.
Since you asked for an opinion, as a gay women living in a conservative part of the country who also recently bought a house, I would move to the Pacific Northwest if either my career or my partner's offered an opportunity with that sort of positive salary differential, and the reasoning would be quality of life for our future kids.
posted by tr0ubley at 8:43 PM on April 7, 2013
But I would also add that an important factor to consider is not just whether same-sex marriage is legal, but how accepted your child will feel by his/her peers. Even if marriage equality becomes the legal norm across the country in the next few years (which is far from sure) my hunch is that your child will tread an easier road in Seattle than NC.
Since you asked for an opinion, as a gay women living in a conservative part of the country who also recently bought a house, I would move to the Pacific Northwest if either my career or my partner's offered an opportunity with that sort of positive salary differential, and the reasoning would be quality of life for our future kids.
posted by tr0ubley at 8:43 PM on April 7, 2013
Best answer: I'm seconding double-checking how much of the pay raise will be eaten up by cost of living.
If you're looking at living farther out to find cheaper housing, I recommend not choosing a place such that you'd have to commute across Lake Washington— that's almost always a pain. (Anywhere within the actual city limits is probably easy enough to commute to anywhere else in the city limits, modulo parking; and I'd extend that a reasonable distance north and south; but although the Eastside is part of the "greater Seattle area" and many people commute across those bridges, it can be time-consuming and frustrating.)
Some people love the weather here (I do!) and some people just can't stand the long dark gray winters; I don't know how to guess which group you'd fall in.
If you like the kinds of outdoorsy activities that involve boots and GoreTex (hiking, climbing, cycling, skiing, boating, etc) then I'd count Seattle as a plus in that column.
As valannc implied, the big employers— Amazon, Microsoft, Boeing— have pretty strong and distinct cultures. Your partner's bad vibe would give me pause. It might be just the supervisor, but it might also be that the company as a whole will rub her the wrong way. (Then again, maybe the supervisor was just grumpy that day.)
posted by hattifattener at 8:44 PM on April 7, 2013
If you're looking at living farther out to find cheaper housing, I recommend not choosing a place such that you'd have to commute across Lake Washington— that's almost always a pain. (Anywhere within the actual city limits is probably easy enough to commute to anywhere else in the city limits, modulo parking; and I'd extend that a reasonable distance north and south; but although the Eastside is part of the "greater Seattle area" and many people commute across those bridges, it can be time-consuming and frustrating.)
Some people love the weather here (I do!) and some people just can't stand the long dark gray winters; I don't know how to guess which group you'd fall in.
If you like the kinds of outdoorsy activities that involve boots and GoreTex (hiking, climbing, cycling, skiing, boating, etc) then I'd count Seattle as a plus in that column.
As valannc implied, the big employers— Amazon, Microsoft, Boeing— have pretty strong and distinct cultures. Your partner's bad vibe would give me pause. It might be just the supervisor, but it might also be that the company as a whole will rub her the wrong way. (Then again, maybe the supervisor was just grumpy that day.)
posted by hattifattener at 8:44 PM on April 7, 2013
I moved to the Pacific Northwest two years ago from Austin.
My advice, stay put. If you decide to move, prepare yourself mentally for the weather. The weather here sucks so unbelievably hard. It's uncanny how shitty the weather is up here. Imagine most of the year almost freezing your ass off, almost soaked. Warmth? I don't know what that is.
Ugh. The weather. I hate it.
posted by roboton666 at 9:29 PM on April 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
My advice, stay put. If you decide to move, prepare yourself mentally for the weather. The weather here sucks so unbelievably hard. It's uncanny how shitty the weather is up here. Imagine most of the year almost freezing your ass off, almost soaked. Warmth? I don't know what that is.
Ugh. The weather. I hate it.
posted by roboton666 at 9:29 PM on April 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
You can go live where the state officially respects your family, or stay where the state thinks your family is disgusting and objectionable.
I don't know how many qualms about boss personality and the dampness of Seattle weather it takes to overcome the basic fact that your family will have civil rights in Seattle that it will continue not having if you stay in Durham.
What would Harriet Tubman do?
I no longer live in Seattle but I enjoyed the weather. You can garden year round, and once you have the right outdoors clothes it's one of the most outdoorsy cities in the country -- the surrounding landscape is uniquely spectacular.
The people are lovely and diverse and smart, and you and your partner and your child will live in an atmosphere of tolerance rather than hatred. I know it's hard to leave family and friends, but Seattle celebrates what Durham condemns about your family, and that's really the biggest factor. Airfare is cheap; maintain a guest room and make sure all of your people know they are welcome. Eventually some of them will join you. One day North Carolina will be a decent place for all families to live, but right now it doesn't even recognize your family as a family. Move to where your family is respected as a family.
posted by gum at 12:15 AM on April 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
I don't know how many qualms about boss personality and the dampness of Seattle weather it takes to overcome the basic fact that your family will have civil rights in Seattle that it will continue not having if you stay in Durham.
What would Harriet Tubman do?
I no longer live in Seattle but I enjoyed the weather. You can garden year round, and once you have the right outdoors clothes it's one of the most outdoorsy cities in the country -- the surrounding landscape is uniquely spectacular.
The people are lovely and diverse and smart, and you and your partner and your child will live in an atmosphere of tolerance rather than hatred. I know it's hard to leave family and friends, but Seattle celebrates what Durham condemns about your family, and that's really the biggest factor. Airfare is cheap; maintain a guest room and make sure all of your people know they are welcome. Eventually some of them will join you. One day North Carolina will be a decent place for all families to live, but right now it doesn't even recognize your family as a family. Move to where your family is respected as a family.
posted by gum at 12:15 AM on April 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: It sounds like school districts are one of your items.
Try the following:
* Search for parenting blogs in Seattle.
* You might post a query this community forum. It's specific to West Seattle, but you're likely to find opinions on education region-wide.
* Ask home-school networks in Seattle. It seems counter-intuitive to ask home-schoolers about district schools -- yet many of these people have carefully researched district schools before making their decision.
* Talk to real estate agents. Talk to more than one.
(Last year I did a lengthy vetting process in selecting an agent to sell our house. I know three agents that are very reputable and experienced, and would tell you honestly which districts might meet your needs. Me-mail if you want the names.)
FWIW, the State of Washington is going to have the first of 40 charter schools open in 2014. It's a five year pilot project.
Another perk of this area: Public libraries are really good -- City of Seattle, and King County.
I agree with the earlier suggestion that you rent for awhile. We bought a house three months after arriving here from NJ. And we sold the house after two years because the neighborhood wasn't right for us. I would rent for at least a year.
posted by valannc at 12:55 AM on April 8, 2013
Try the following:
* Search for parenting blogs in Seattle.
* You might post a query this community forum. It's specific to West Seattle, but you're likely to find opinions on education region-wide.
* Ask home-school networks in Seattle. It seems counter-intuitive to ask home-schoolers about district schools -- yet many of these people have carefully researched district schools before making their decision.
* Talk to real estate agents. Talk to more than one.
(Last year I did a lengthy vetting process in selecting an agent to sell our house. I know three agents that are very reputable and experienced, and would tell you honestly which districts might meet your needs. Me-mail if you want the names.)
FWIW, the State of Washington is going to have the first of 40 charter schools open in 2014. It's a five year pilot project.
Another perk of this area: Public libraries are really good -- City of Seattle, and King County.
I agree with the earlier suggestion that you rent for awhile. We bought a house three months after arriving here from NJ. And we sold the house after two years because the neighborhood wasn't right for us. I would rent for at least a year.
posted by valannc at 12:55 AM on April 8, 2013
Response by poster: Thank you all SO much for your thoughtful answers, I really appreciate that you took the time. I'll be marking some best answers in a moment, but wanted to clarify a few things:
1. We'd definitely rent for a while--a year, maybe two. Our son is nearly two, so school won't be an issue for a little while. We just like to plan ahead. Ideally, we'd rent somewhere fun and nice. The reason I ask about school districts and housing prices is because we'll eventually want to buy somewhere with really good schools, and I'd hate to get out there and realize that we'd have to push our housing spending right to the edge of our means just to do that.
2. I am biased, yeah. I imagine that if my partner wrote this, I'd be all "you totally want to go, don't you?" She's reading this, though, and approved the question. I think that if you asked her, she'd say that she really is torn, but that her biggest worries have to do with the work--the atmosphere at the company might be a little more aggressive and competitive than she'd like, the way the guy was in the interview really was ass-y, and that's concerning. As someone else pointed out, if you have a bad work situation and home/social life is still a work in progress because you just moved across the country, that can be super miserable. Oh, and I didn't mention, but she was basically contacted on LinkedIn and applied to this on a whim. She has not been looking for another job.
3. As to our civil rights, it is definitely a draw. I am not currently a legal parent to our son, though we are lawyered up as much as we can be at this point. Chapel Hill and Durham do, actually, love our family. These are two blue counties in a sea of red (though Wake, where Raleigh is, can go either way). When it comes down to custody issues, what matters most is your judge, and where we are now, we will almost certainly have a judge who acknowledges that we can form a family. However, yeah, it's scary. The thing about civil rights in a county where we are just fine socially is that it just doesn't affect our day to day happiness as much as you might think.
In the end, I think that in five years we will be fine, no matter which way we go on this. We could probably be happy in Seattle, and we will probably be happy here. I wouldn't like the weather as much, but I imagine I'd cope with it, and just be outside a lot and go "wow the beaches and mountains here are SO pretty and dramatic and North Carolina can be boring." Maybe I'd over-light the house. If my partner's job sucks, she'd find another one. And so on.
posted by hought20 at 5:51 AM on April 8, 2013
1. We'd definitely rent for a while--a year, maybe two. Our son is nearly two, so school won't be an issue for a little while. We just like to plan ahead. Ideally, we'd rent somewhere fun and nice. The reason I ask about school districts and housing prices is because we'll eventually want to buy somewhere with really good schools, and I'd hate to get out there and realize that we'd have to push our housing spending right to the edge of our means just to do that.
2. I am biased, yeah. I imagine that if my partner wrote this, I'd be all "you totally want to go, don't you?" She's reading this, though, and approved the question. I think that if you asked her, she'd say that she really is torn, but that her biggest worries have to do with the work--the atmosphere at the company might be a little more aggressive and competitive than she'd like, the way the guy was in the interview really was ass-y, and that's concerning. As someone else pointed out, if you have a bad work situation and home/social life is still a work in progress because you just moved across the country, that can be super miserable. Oh, and I didn't mention, but she was basically contacted on LinkedIn and applied to this on a whim. She has not been looking for another job.
3. As to our civil rights, it is definitely a draw. I am not currently a legal parent to our son, though we are lawyered up as much as we can be at this point. Chapel Hill and Durham do, actually, love our family. These are two blue counties in a sea of red (though Wake, where Raleigh is, can go either way). When it comes down to custody issues, what matters most is your judge, and where we are now, we will almost certainly have a judge who acknowledges that we can form a family. However, yeah, it's scary. The thing about civil rights in a county where we are just fine socially is that it just doesn't affect our day to day happiness as much as you might think.
In the end, I think that in five years we will be fine, no matter which way we go on this. We could probably be happy in Seattle, and we will probably be happy here. I wouldn't like the weather as much, but I imagine I'd cope with it, and just be outside a lot and go "wow the beaches and mountains here are SO pretty and dramatic and North Carolina can be boring." Maybe I'd over-light the house. If my partner's job sucks, she'd find another one. And so on.
posted by hought20 at 5:51 AM on April 8, 2013
Given your addendum, I'd say stay put.
1. Your partner didn't get a good vibe from her prospective boss.
2. You just bought a house in an area you like.
3. The difference in money equates to a push insofar as cost-of-living, in other words, it's not an increase.
4. You have a support network where you are.
It would be different if you hated your situation, or if your partner were miserable in her job, but neither of those things is true.
Also, I'm really hoping that once the Supreme Court finishes writing their decisions that the Defense of Marriage act will be getting the heave-ho and then you'll be free to wed even in stuffy, old North Carolina.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:17 AM on April 8, 2013 [4 favorites]
1. Your partner didn't get a good vibe from her prospective boss.
2. You just bought a house in an area you like.
3. The difference in money equates to a push insofar as cost-of-living, in other words, it's not an increase.
4. You have a support network where you are.
It would be different if you hated your situation, or if your partner were miserable in her job, but neither of those things is true.
Also, I'm really hoping that once the Supreme Court finishes writing their decisions that the Defense of Marriage act will be getting the heave-ho and then you'll be free to wed even in stuffy, old North Carolina.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:17 AM on April 8, 2013 [4 favorites]
(I'm the partner with the job offer.)
To be clear:
I know it's hard to leave family and friends, but Seattle celebrates what Durham condemns about your family, and that's really the biggest factor.
One of the big reasons to stay is that we live in an area where our family is celebrated and accepted. Definitely not at the state level, but at the local level? Chapel Hill and Durham are as liberal as any part of the country. If that weren't the case we'd be out of here in a second.
posted by Tooty McTootsalot at 9:03 AM on April 8, 2013
To be clear:
I know it's hard to leave family and friends, but Seattle celebrates what Durham condemns about your family, and that's really the biggest factor.
One of the big reasons to stay is that we live in an area where our family is celebrated and accepted. Definitely not at the state level, but at the local level? Chapel Hill and Durham are as liberal as any part of the country. If that weren't the case we'd be out of here in a second.
posted by Tooty McTootsalot at 9:03 AM on April 8, 2013
Thanks for the updates from both hough20 and Tooty! I'm also chiming in in regards to the whole red state/blue state generalizations that some folks are making. Chapel Hill and Durham are progressive islands, indeed, but NC can't be defined simply as "red," recent political controversies there notwithstanding. Similarly, while Washington is a blue state, it certainly has conservative folks living there. This issue is more rural/urban.
As an example, in the 2012 presidential election, Romney won NC and had 50.6% of the popular vote; Obama won Washington and had 55.8% of the popular vote. However, in NC, almost 2.2 million people voted for Obama, whereas in Washington (which has a much smaller population), only 1.6 million people voted for Obama. So there are more Obama voters in NC; they're just a smaller percentage of the state.
It's true that gay marriage is legal in Washington. But that only just happened this year. It's not like Washington is some ridiculously liberal bastion compared to an NC backwater.
Hought20 and Tooty, I suspect you know a lot of this already, but I wanted to confirm that while the Bible-thumping is less profound in the PNW, it's still here, and you'll still find that similar divide of folks in cities being more liberal than folks in suburbs and rural areas. I also wanted to say that Seattle being so much bigger than Chapel Hill and Durham may give you a bit more room to roam, in a way.
In regards to schools: I think this website needs to be taken with a grain of salt, because it reflects primarily test scores, and test scores tend to reflect socioeconomic demographics rather than teaching, but you might find it interesting to browse greatschools.org for Chapel Hill/Carrboro Public Schools and Seattle Public Schools. It looks like Seattle has plenty of high-ranked schools, similar to Chapel Hill.
I keep wanting to say that if it were me, I'd do it, but that's probably because I did do it and it's worked out great. Plus, it's great to be able to fly back to NC to visit family when it's drizzling out here.
Again, good luck.
posted by bluedaisy at 9:12 AM on April 8, 2013
As an example, in the 2012 presidential election, Romney won NC and had 50.6% of the popular vote; Obama won Washington and had 55.8% of the popular vote. However, in NC, almost 2.2 million people voted for Obama, whereas in Washington (which has a much smaller population), only 1.6 million people voted for Obama. So there are more Obama voters in NC; they're just a smaller percentage of the state.
It's true that gay marriage is legal in Washington. But that only just happened this year. It's not like Washington is some ridiculously liberal bastion compared to an NC backwater.
Hought20 and Tooty, I suspect you know a lot of this already, but I wanted to confirm that while the Bible-thumping is less profound in the PNW, it's still here, and you'll still find that similar divide of folks in cities being more liberal than folks in suburbs and rural areas. I also wanted to say that Seattle being so much bigger than Chapel Hill and Durham may give you a bit more room to roam, in a way.
In regards to schools: I think this website needs to be taken with a grain of salt, because it reflects primarily test scores, and test scores tend to reflect socioeconomic demographics rather than teaching, but you might find it interesting to browse greatschools.org for Chapel Hill/Carrboro Public Schools and Seattle Public Schools. It looks like Seattle has plenty of high-ranked schools, similar to Chapel Hill.
I keep wanting to say that if it were me, I'd do it, but that's probably because I did do it and it's worked out great. Plus, it's great to be able to fly back to NC to visit family when it's drizzling out here.
Again, good luck.
posted by bluedaisy at 9:12 AM on April 8, 2013
You move for the money you pay for it every day. Seattle is a liberal self-centered bastion of software geeks and engineers. Hiking thru the woods is wonderful and your raingear is the best available. Nothing stops just because it's wet, except the freeway (there's only 2). Along with the Autumn and August weather (summer warmth is July thru September) you have to put up with some horrendous traffic issues which won't be resolved for years, if ever. Housing is always an issue so you won't be buying something immediately if you're even reasonably smart You will have to put up with good teachers in bad schools and lots of same sex parents. It's a politically pleasant place to be, but there are trade-offs. I would suggest you not move because you have a good life where you're at and money will not make it any better.
posted by ptm at 9:50 AM on April 8, 2013
posted by ptm at 9:50 AM on April 8, 2013
Hate to pile on, but I'm a Seattle Native.
If you're really on the fence, come out and visit.
Otherwise, I suggest you stay put -- especially if the weather is an issue. Since I'm an old-school mossback, I'm used to the weather. I could see how it'd be a definite deal-breaker for most thought.
Seattle has a lot to offer, but it's definitely not for everyone.
posted by black8 at 1:14 PM on April 8, 2013
If you're really on the fence, come out and visit.
Otherwise, I suggest you stay put -- especially if the weather is an issue. Since I'm an old-school mossback, I'm used to the weather. I could see how it'd be a definite deal-breaker for most thought.
Seattle has a lot to offer, but it's definitely not for everyone.
posted by black8 at 1:14 PM on April 8, 2013
I live in the city of Seattle but I'm not from here originally. Some thoughts in random order ...
1. I was thinking about your question and thought that I didn't have much to say about the LGBT community, but then I remembered that my best friend is a lesbian and I know a number of professional women who are out and have children. It seems to me that it's just not a big deal in the city, you know?
2. The weather here is not terrible, but the persistent grey skies are a huge downer and many people legitimately suffer from seasonal affective disorder. The environment is gorgeous. If you are strongly interested in any kind of outdoorsy activity or gardening, Seattle can't be beat. (There's also plenty of urban activities, too! Many college-educated professional types enjoying their hobbies. Libraries. Hipsters galore.)
3. Seattle Public Schools does have some high-ranked schools, but it has more schools that are struggling. It's definitely one of those "have and have-nots" school districts, and it lacks money. (And frankly, leadership.) Just being within the SPS district does not mean that you get to send your kid to whichever school you like. With some exceptions, you basically have to send your kid to the neighborhood school. This is something that I find surprising about Seattle -- all these college-educated liberal professionals and our school district is a mess and is failing the kids who need it the most. To get your kid into the best schools, you do have to pay a premium for real estate. I wish I could quantify that for you, but I don't know what kind of house and neighborhood would be comparable for you in North Carolina. I am not too familiar with the other school districts within King County, but it's my understanding that the Bellevue and Lake Washington school districts have the better schools. If this job is on the eastside (of Lake Washington), it may make sense for you to be looking at those communities. But they are expensive.
4. I'd break down the financial implications as carefully as possible. How much of that raise will be eaten by federal taxes? How much will you have to spend to visit family and friends? And so forth. Daycare and after-school care here is legitimately expensive.
5. I think it's hard to make friends here. You definitely need "activities" to bond over.
I also think there is something to be said for having roots and a community of family and friends.
Hope that helps a little.
posted by stowaway at 1:16 PM on April 8, 2013
1. I was thinking about your question and thought that I didn't have much to say about the LGBT community, but then I remembered that my best friend is a lesbian and I know a number of professional women who are out and have children. It seems to me that it's just not a big deal in the city, you know?
2. The weather here is not terrible, but the persistent grey skies are a huge downer and many people legitimately suffer from seasonal affective disorder. The environment is gorgeous. If you are strongly interested in any kind of outdoorsy activity or gardening, Seattle can't be beat. (There's also plenty of urban activities, too! Many college-educated professional types enjoying their hobbies. Libraries. Hipsters galore.)
3. Seattle Public Schools does have some high-ranked schools, but it has more schools that are struggling. It's definitely one of those "have and have-nots" school districts, and it lacks money. (And frankly, leadership.) Just being within the SPS district does not mean that you get to send your kid to whichever school you like. With some exceptions, you basically have to send your kid to the neighborhood school. This is something that I find surprising about Seattle -- all these college-educated liberal professionals and our school district is a mess and is failing the kids who need it the most. To get your kid into the best schools, you do have to pay a premium for real estate. I wish I could quantify that for you, but I don't know what kind of house and neighborhood would be comparable for you in North Carolina. I am not too familiar with the other school districts within King County, but it's my understanding that the Bellevue and Lake Washington school districts have the better schools. If this job is on the eastside (of Lake Washington), it may make sense for you to be looking at those communities. But they are expensive.
4. I'd break down the financial implications as carefully as possible. How much of that raise will be eaten by federal taxes? How much will you have to spend to visit family and friends? And so forth. Daycare and after-school care here is legitimately expensive.
5. I think it's hard to make friends here. You definitely need "activities" to bond over.
I also think there is something to be said for having roots and a community of family and friends.
Hope that helps a little.
posted by stowaway at 1:16 PM on April 8, 2013
Response by poster: Hi guys! Just wanted to update, in case anybody ever checks: We're not moving. It came down to the bad vibe plus the probably high cost of housing in a good school district, with a good dose of "our lives have been in upheaval in one way or another for several years now and I want a BREAK." But mostly the first two.
Thanks again for your help.
posted by hought20 at 7:22 AM on April 10, 2013 [5 favorites]
Thanks again for your help.
posted by hought20 at 7:22 AM on April 10, 2013 [5 favorites]
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Fast forward three years: we're back where we belong. And THANK THE LORD.
I'm a huge proponent of the "better to regret something you have done school" and so I'm fine with my regrets, and there were definitely upsides. But, once you're beyond a certain age, there's just no replacing the town where your real friends are and where you're happiest.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 4:37 PM on April 7, 2013 [2 favorites]