Should I be doing anything besides wringing my hands
May 3, 2012 2:19 PM Subscribe
So, you might remember my question 'help me navigate and not screw up this budding online relationship', in which I managed to self sabotage a good thing w/ a guy who was really into me by dragging on a conversation online for 4 months and screwing up 3 attempts to meet. Well, I re-read our entire conversation and it seems he had subtly made attempts to hang out 2 additional times! (I don't know what's wrong with me and why I was being so daft, scared or evasive). I took you all's advice and apologized for flaking on our first official/somewhat organized meetup in which my rules about being feminine/cautious caused me to act like an idiot. His specific response to my date suggestions was ...
"Ooh that looks like fun! I'm afraid I'm headed {redacted} for the weekend though :-/ Next time" - sent on saturday morning, the day I proposed we hang out. (He did not mention/ follow up on my suggestion that we meet tomorrow (Friday) if sat wasn't good.
I replied "ok, np. have fun :)" - sent on Sunday afternoon. He read it right away and didn't respond. The good is he was taking forever after the incident to log in/reply to me, but he did log in the next day to check up, so I think it was kind of a good sign? Anyway, he hasn't logged in at all since reading my message and now I am kicking myself and guessing he wants nothing to do with me anymore. God only knows how he kept talking to me after I seemingly turned him down all those other times. This one 'rejection' from him and I'm feeling like it's a lost cause.
Anyway, I am thinking the ball is really now in his court and realize that I deserve if he wants nothing to do with me, as I would be completely turned off. I don't want to initiate or say anything more to him b/c I don't want to start 'chasing' him or bugging him. Should I be doing anything more than just waiting and responding positively IF and when he decides to reply? Am I right in just letting him take it from here? What would you do if you were in my shoes?!
*Keep in mind that we had great, playful conversations and so much in common. I am also definitely still interested in meeting him - he was so sweet, smart, cool and attentive and it appears I have driven him away :(
P.S. I am still dating and intend to fill my time/keep busy but I he is my favorite by far out of all the other guys
"Ooh that looks like fun! I'm afraid I'm headed {redacted} for the weekend though :-/ Next time" - sent on saturday morning, the day I proposed we hang out. (He did not mention/ follow up on my suggestion that we meet tomorrow (Friday) if sat wasn't good.
I replied "ok, np. have fun :)" - sent on Sunday afternoon. He read it right away and didn't respond. The good is he was taking forever after the incident to log in/reply to me, but he did log in the next day to check up, so I think it was kind of a good sign? Anyway, he hasn't logged in at all since reading my message and now I am kicking myself and guessing he wants nothing to do with me anymore. God only knows how he kept talking to me after I seemingly turned him down all those other times. This one 'rejection' from him and I'm feeling like it's a lost cause.
Anyway, I am thinking the ball is really now in his court and realize that I deserve if he wants nothing to do with me, as I would be completely turned off. I don't want to initiate or say anything more to him b/c I don't want to start 'chasing' him or bugging him. Should I be doing anything more than just waiting and responding positively IF and when he decides to reply? Am I right in just letting him take it from here? What would you do if you were in my shoes?!
*Keep in mind that we had great, playful conversations and so much in common. I am also definitely still interested in meeting him - he was so sweet, smart, cool and attentive and it appears I have driven him away :(
P.S. I am still dating and intend to fill my time/keep busy but I he is my favorite by far out of all the other guys
Yes, the ball is now in his court. You can relax. Now throw out a bunch more balls and stop focusing so much on this one. Seriously. It's scary/frustrating, I understand, but don't make any more drama in your life than necessary. You risk coming on too strong.
posted by Think_Long at 2:22 PM on May 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Think_Long at 2:22 PM on May 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
Yes. You need to stop thinking about this. I've been there, I know how nauseating it can be to be in this place, but you have to stop checking in on him. Don't even think about it as waiting.
posted by modernserf at 2:23 PM on May 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by modernserf at 2:23 PM on May 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Dude, stop over analyzing this. You asked him to hang out the day of. It's normal that he would already have plans. That is not much advance notice. It's not a faux pas or anything it's fine to ask someone to hang out the day of, there's just way more of a chance that they will be busy.
Maybe try taking him a little bit more at his word. From what you have written of things he has said he sounds pretty straight forward. I would say make a big effort with him not to look for hidden meanings and interpretations, and come up with strategies and worry about what his strategies might be. He said, "next time." Great. He wants to do something with you next time, just believe him for this once.
Next time could be the next time you want to hang out or think of something interesting to do. So just do that. Think of something for next Saturday (does not have to be something fabulous or super interesting). Write back to him today or tomorrow to ask for his availability.
posted by cairdeas at 2:28 PM on May 3, 2012 [5 favorites]
Maybe try taking him a little bit more at his word. From what you have written of things he has said he sounds pretty straight forward. I would say make a big effort with him not to look for hidden meanings and interpretations, and come up with strategies and worry about what his strategies might be. He said, "next time." Great. He wants to do something with you next time, just believe him for this once.
Next time could be the next time you want to hang out or think of something interesting to do. So just do that. Think of something for next Saturday (does not have to be something fabulous or super interesting). Write back to him today or tomorrow to ask for his availability.
posted by cairdeas at 2:28 PM on May 3, 2012 [5 favorites]
I don't want to initiate or say anything more to him b/c I don't want to start 'chasing' him or bugging him.
To my perspective your idea of when you would be chasing or bugging someone is somewhat out of the mainstream. In this particular scenario I would say that it would be fine for you to ask him to do something with you at least twice more, unless you get an overtly negative response from him.
posted by cairdeas at 2:31 PM on May 3, 2012
To my perspective your idea of when you would be chasing or bugging someone is somewhat out of the mainstream. In this particular scenario I would say that it would be fine for you to ask him to do something with you at least twice more, unless you get an overtly negative response from him.
posted by cairdeas at 2:31 PM on May 3, 2012
I think you are WAY over analyzing this. The problem with dragging out online dating is that you build up fantasies in your mind about who this person is. He could be completely different than what he's representing. If he wanted to go out with you he would've suggested a solid plan rather than hinting around. You've asked him out and he's declined and hasn't responded to an alternate date. Sounds to me like he never intended to take this to an in- person date.
posted by Sal and Richard at 2:36 PM on May 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Sal and Richard at 2:36 PM on May 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
Good lord, too many beans. Ask him "hey, dude, I'd love to grab a coffee with you! I really love Place X in town, are you free any afternoon this/next week?"
Done and done. It's not chasing him, it's directly asking him on a date. If he says no without suggesting something as specific as "can't do this week, sorry, let's do X thing on Y date instead!" or doesn't reply then you can rest easy, he doesn't want to go on a date with you. Then you can stop worrying about it! If he does want to grab coffee with you, hooray, you'll figure out if you actually want to date him in the longer term. Then you can stop worrying about it!
posted by lydhre at 2:41 PM on May 3, 2012 [8 favorites]
Done and done. It's not chasing him, it's directly asking him on a date. If he says no without suggesting something as specific as "can't do this week, sorry, let's do X thing on Y date instead!" or doesn't reply then you can rest easy, he doesn't want to go on a date with you. Then you can stop worrying about it! If he does want to grab coffee with you, hooray, you'll figure out if you actually want to date him in the longer term. Then you can stop worrying about it!
posted by lydhre at 2:41 PM on May 3, 2012 [8 favorites]
but he did log in the next day to check up, so I think it was kind of a good sign? Anyway, he hasn't logged in at all since reading my message
Stop this. Stop tracking people's online activity. Seriously, this is just making you nuts. I don't know if you can shut that capability off on whatever website you're using, but if you can you really should.
Are you seeing somebody about your anxiety? Because it seems like, even if this is the only arena in your life where it comes into play, it's really having a negative impact on how you do dating.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:42 PM on May 3, 2012 [13 favorites]
Stop this. Stop tracking people's online activity. Seriously, this is just making you nuts. I don't know if you can shut that capability off on whatever website you're using, but if you can you really should.
Are you seeing somebody about your anxiety? Because it seems like, even if this is the only arena in your life where it comes into play, it's really having a negative impact on how you do dating.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:42 PM on May 3, 2012 [13 favorites]
What "Sal and Richard" said. . .
Try not to analyze it so much. However, a suggestion that I would give you would be this: when responding to a person, don't just respond with "ok, np. have fun :)" if you want that person to respond to you with a date. Perhaps say "ok, np. have fun :) . . Perhaps we could setup another time if you like" or "ok, np. have fun :). How about next weekend?"
On the other hand, Sunday afternoon wasn't that long ago. I'd put this one on the back burner and relax.
Good luck.
posted by WestChester22 at 2:43 PM on May 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Try not to analyze it so much. However, a suggestion that I would give you would be this: when responding to a person, don't just respond with "ok, np. have fun :)" if you want that person to respond to you with a date. Perhaps say "ok, np. have fun :) . . Perhaps we could setup another time if you like" or "ok, np. have fun :). How about next weekend?"
On the other hand, Sunday afternoon wasn't that long ago. I'd put this one on the back burner and relax.
Good luck.
posted by WestChester22 at 2:43 PM on May 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
As I read it, "Next time" means the door is ostensibly open, and at worst, you can't be blamed for reading it as such.
However I think the ball is still in your court. He made serious efforts to arrange meetings, you taught him that he is wasting his time by trying to be the organiser. If there is going to be a meeting, it's on you to make it happen. It's on you to find something that works for him.
posted by -harlequin- at 2:43 PM on May 3, 2012
However I think the ball is still in your court. He made serious efforts to arrange meetings, you taught him that he is wasting his time by trying to be the organiser. If there is going to be a meeting, it's on you to make it happen. It's on you to find something that works for him.
posted by -harlequin- at 2:43 PM on May 3, 2012
Yeah, I think "I'm traveling to [place] + [sadface] + next time" is, if it's not an untruth meant to let you down easy, certainly not blowing you off.
I think you've had a pattern of blowing this guy's suggestions off and he probably isn't going to suggest anything for next time unless you show some unambiguous interest soon. It's not a situation where the usual advice applies. There's some history here which complicates that advice. (The usual advice being, if he were into you, he'd suggest an alternative or change his plans.)
I think that, while the ball is technically in his court, he's probably not going to hit it back unless you show him that you are now playing in good faith, which you haven't been thus far. (I'm not judging, I'm sure you're a fine and lovely person, it just seems like from your description of your interactions with this guy that you haven't exactly been square with him.) If this seems like too much drama and history for the start of a relationship, you're probably right and you should move on. But if you're into this guy, be honest with yourself and with him.
And you may want to consider, before you do anything else, whether you don't at some subconscious level want this to fail. Because asking somebody to do something the day of is pretty much the definition of not really trying. It seems like maybe there's a part of you that maybe feels like you should date this guy for some reason, and another part of you that feels like you don't want to, and you're trying to keep both sides of you happy by making a half-hearted effort that will give you permission to say, "I tried and it didn't work."
Because you've said in both of your questions that you don't want to pursue this guy or seem like you're coming on too strong. One of the alternatives would be that you want this guy to pursue you, but you don't seem to want that either because you are discouraging his behavior when he does pursue you. So another alternative is that maybe you're really just not into him after all. And that's okay, you don't have to be into somebody just because you get along or seem compatible or whatever. But if you don't, then save yourself the effort and just let him go. It will be better for everybody.
posted by gauche at 2:44 PM on May 3, 2012
I think you've had a pattern of blowing this guy's suggestions off and he probably isn't going to suggest anything for next time unless you show some unambiguous interest soon. It's not a situation where the usual advice applies. There's some history here which complicates that advice. (The usual advice being, if he were into you, he'd suggest an alternative or change his plans.)
I think that, while the ball is technically in his court, he's probably not going to hit it back unless you show him that you are now playing in good faith, which you haven't been thus far. (I'm not judging, I'm sure you're a fine and lovely person, it just seems like from your description of your interactions with this guy that you haven't exactly been square with him.) If this seems like too much drama and history for the start of a relationship, you're probably right and you should move on. But if you're into this guy, be honest with yourself and with him.
And you may want to consider, before you do anything else, whether you don't at some subconscious level want this to fail. Because asking somebody to do something the day of is pretty much the definition of not really trying. It seems like maybe there's a part of you that maybe feels like you should date this guy for some reason, and another part of you that feels like you don't want to, and you're trying to keep both sides of you happy by making a half-hearted effort that will give you permission to say, "I tried and it didn't work."
Because you've said in both of your questions that you don't want to pursue this guy or seem like you're coming on too strong. One of the alternatives would be that you want this guy to pursue you, but you don't seem to want that either because you are discouraging his behavior when he does pursue you. So another alternative is that maybe you're really just not into him after all. And that's okay, you don't have to be into somebody just because you get along or seem compatible or whatever. But if you don't, then save yourself the effort and just let him go. It will be better for everybody.
posted by gauche at 2:44 PM on May 3, 2012
To my perspective your idea of when you would be chasing or bugging someone
cairdeas, I think sooooooo is being extra cautious because she really was chasing and bugging someone a while back, and lots of us took her to the woodshed on that. Honestly, I think it's better for her to overcorrect a bit than to be as in-your-face with this guy as she was with the guy from her grad program.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:44 PM on May 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
cairdeas, I think sooooooo is being extra cautious because she really was chasing and bugging someone a while back, and lots of us took her to the woodshed on that. Honestly, I think it's better for her to overcorrect a bit than to be as in-your-face with this guy as she was with the guy from her grad program.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:44 PM on May 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
If you've blown it, asking one more time isn't going to make things any worse.
If you haven't blown it, asking one more time isn't going to make things any worse.
I'd ask one more time, and this time leave the date more open to discussion:
"I'd really like to go out with you sometime soon if you are still up for it. Is there a time in the next couple of weeks that would be good for you? I've got something going on on the xxth but other than that I'm pretty open."
If he says yes, then yay! You're set! If he says no and doesn't suggest a concrete alternate scenario, then he's probably not interested and you can move on knowing you gave it your best shot.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 2:45 PM on May 3, 2012 [3 favorites]
If you haven't blown it, asking one more time isn't going to make things any worse.
I'd ask one more time, and this time leave the date more open to discussion:
"I'd really like to go out with you sometime soon if you are still up for it. Is there a time in the next couple of weeks that would be good for you? I've got something going on on the xxth but other than that I'm pretty open."
If he says yes, then yay! You're set! If he says no and doesn't suggest a concrete alternate scenario, then he's probably not interested and you can move on knowing you gave it your best shot.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 2:45 PM on May 3, 2012 [3 favorites]
That said, I agree that "I'm going somewhere, next time" isn't a rejection. Ask him for a date next week with a couple of scheduling options. ("I'd love to get together for {meal or snack}; {times} work for me, what about you?")
And yeah, maybe you did fuck this up with your weird game-playing "feminine role" shit and the whole "You don't sound enthusiastic" when he said "Fantastic!" and what not. All we can do as humans who make mistakes is to learn from our mistakes and move on.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:47 PM on May 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
And yeah, maybe you did fuck this up with your weird game-playing "feminine role" shit and the whole "You don't sound enthusiastic" when he said "Fantastic!" and what not. All we can do as humans who make mistakes is to learn from our mistakes and move on.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:47 PM on May 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
You've never even met him, right? Like, in person? You might not even LIKE HIM in person. I have had GREAT convos with people online and in person we are terrible matches. It's been four months and you have never seen each other's face in real life.
(He did not mention/ follow up on my suggestion that we meet tomorrow (Friday) if sat wasn't good.
With all kindness: I kind of don't foresee this ever actually happening. It seems like both of you are getting something out of not actually pulling the trigger to see in person, for who knows what reason. And in my experience, a new relationship is like a shark: it has to keep moving, or it dies. Especially online, where there are so many options, it is all about momentum, and you guys don't have any momentum.
I feel like this is a lot of agita for someone who you haven't ever even seen face-to-face.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 2:57 PM on May 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
(He did not mention/ follow up on my suggestion that we meet tomorrow (Friday) if sat wasn't good.
With all kindness: I kind of don't foresee this ever actually happening. It seems like both of you are getting something out of not actually pulling the trigger to see in person, for who knows what reason. And in my experience, a new relationship is like a shark: it has to keep moving, or it dies. Especially online, where there are so many options, it is all about momentum, and you guys don't have any momentum.
I feel like this is a lot of agita for someone who you haven't ever even seen face-to-face.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 2:57 PM on May 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: just to clarify, I didn't ask him to go out with me on saturday, the day of. I asked him 2 days out and he didn't read it/respond until saturday.
The site I am on does not allow me to turn off the function - it automatically tells me the last time he has been on and whether my message to him has been read.
Also, yes, I realized I was bugging/coming on too strong to a guy in my grad program and was taken to task for it. Moving forward and trying to learn/grow from that experience I have decided to not repeat that same mistake twice.
posted by soooo at 3:07 PM on May 3, 2012
The site I am on does not allow me to turn off the function - it automatically tells me the last time he has been on and whether my message to him has been read.
Also, yes, I realized I was bugging/coming on too strong to a guy in my grad program and was taken to task for it. Moving forward and trying to learn/grow from that experience I have decided to not repeat that same mistake twice.
posted by soooo at 3:07 PM on May 3, 2012
There's no downside to making your move. If he's interested in you, then making a move helps make your interest in him unambiguous. If thinks you're weird/a creep/needy, then why do you care? You're not going to be in a relationship anyway, if he's not interested, so who cares what he thinks about you?
posted by jayder at 3:08 PM on May 3, 2012
posted by jayder at 3:08 PM on May 3, 2012
Stop over analyzing it; stop over thinking about it; next time, in the next few weeks, ask him again. Then, if he says no, chalk it up to experience and move on.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 3:09 PM on May 3, 2012
posted by JohnnyGunn at 3:09 PM on May 3, 2012
I suggest you pull back and let him contact you if he's going to. Not really out of any sense of how he feels about you, but because this interaction seems to be driving you a little crazy (happens to the best of us), and I think a break is in order.
posted by Ragged Richard at 3:36 PM on May 3, 2012
posted by Ragged Richard at 3:36 PM on May 3, 2012
"I replied "ok, np. have fun :)" - sent on Sunday afternoon. He read it right away and didn't respond."
He didn't reapond to what? You didn't ask a question. You wrote a sentence.
EXAMPLE:
"Do you have plans Thursday, after work?" That's easy to respond to.
"ok, np. have fun :)" Other than maybe "Thanks," I can't think of what kind of response to give there.
If you want to go on a date with someone, ASK. Pick a day, a time and a place while allowing for flexibility.
EXAMPLE:
"Are you free Thursday evening, after work? I was thinking 7pm at [Local Pub] for drinks." Worst case scenario, he turns you down. And if he does, that's ok! It's better to be turned down than it is to waste time on someone if it isn't going to lead to a date.
My rule of thumb is, if we've exchanged more than five messages and haven't met in person, it's probably a waste of time. Meeting in person doesn't mean "OMG, we're in a relationship!" It just means drinks and conversation in person. It's too easy to trade messages with someone only to find that there's no connection in person.
posted by Mr Ected at 3:39 PM on May 3, 2012
He didn't reapond to what? You didn't ask a question. You wrote a sentence.
EXAMPLE:
"Do you have plans Thursday, after work?" That's easy to respond to.
"ok, np. have fun :)" Other than maybe "Thanks," I can't think of what kind of response to give there.
If you want to go on a date with someone, ASK. Pick a day, a time and a place while allowing for flexibility.
EXAMPLE:
"Are you free Thursday evening, after work? I was thinking 7pm at [Local Pub] for drinks." Worst case scenario, he turns you down. And if he does, that's ok! It's better to be turned down than it is to waste time on someone if it isn't going to lead to a date.
My rule of thumb is, if we've exchanged more than five messages and haven't met in person, it's probably a waste of time. Meeting in person doesn't mean "OMG, we're in a relationship!" It just means drinks and conversation in person. It's too easy to trade messages with someone only to find that there's no connection in person.
posted by Mr Ected at 3:39 PM on May 3, 2012
A few thoughts.
Regarding this guy in particular: if you don't hear from him over the next few days, next week I would suggest one more specific get-together (e.g., meeting for coffee). But do try to keep this in perspective: as others have said, great chemistry online doesn't always translate into great chemistry in person (a lesson I learned more than once while I was dating online). The fact that you guys give each other good text doesn't necessarily mean much, so try to stop going down the HE IS MY SOULMATE AND I RUINED IT path in your mind. I know you enjoy your online interactions with this guy, but it truly doesn't give you an accurate sense of how you two would interact in the real world.
Regarding obsessively checking on him: STOP. That way madness lies. It feeds a sense of panic and insecurity and makes you unhappy. It's an itch that you need to train yourself to stop scratching. In order to do that, make a list of quick, easy, free things you can do every time you get the urge (which you will) to check on him: make a cup of tea, go for a walk, do some yoga, play with the cat, pick up a book, do the dishes, whatever. The point is to have a plan so that you have plenty of things to do to fill your time and mind with something else.
You may even consider blocking the site for a few days (e.g., Chrome StayFocusd), just so that you're forced to get away from it for awhile -- which might actually wind up feeling like a bit of a relief to you.
Regarding overanalyzing what everything "means": practice taking people at their word. Practice not filling in some sort of back-story or narrative when you're in a situation that's ambiguous or unresolved. The thing is, when you make up a story to "explain" why something has or hasn't happened, you then react emotionally to it as if the story you just imagined is factually true -- but, when you look at it objectively, you actually have no idea if it's objestively true or not, and often you will eventually find that what really happened is entirely different from the story you made up (and got upset about). This is a very good habit to break, as it will save you an enormous amount of time spent on the hamster wheel in your brain. (Speaking as someone who spent the better part of my life on that hamster wheel.)
Regarding other online interactions: as a general rule, you should move to phone and in-person contact much, much sooner, as it saves you (and the other person) a lot of time and emotional/mental energy from being wasted. Again, when in doubt, get off the hamster wheel. No good comes of it.
posted by scody at 3:49 PM on May 3, 2012 [10 favorites]
Regarding this guy in particular: if you don't hear from him over the next few days, next week I would suggest one more specific get-together (e.g., meeting for coffee). But do try to keep this in perspective: as others have said, great chemistry online doesn't always translate into great chemistry in person (a lesson I learned more than once while I was dating online). The fact that you guys give each other good text doesn't necessarily mean much, so try to stop going down the HE IS MY SOULMATE AND I RUINED IT path in your mind. I know you enjoy your online interactions with this guy, but it truly doesn't give you an accurate sense of how you two would interact in the real world.
Regarding obsessively checking on him: STOP. That way madness lies. It feeds a sense of panic and insecurity and makes you unhappy. It's an itch that you need to train yourself to stop scratching. In order to do that, make a list of quick, easy, free things you can do every time you get the urge (which you will) to check on him: make a cup of tea, go for a walk, do some yoga, play with the cat, pick up a book, do the dishes, whatever. The point is to have a plan so that you have plenty of things to do to fill your time and mind with something else.
You may even consider blocking the site for a few days (e.g., Chrome StayFocusd), just so that you're forced to get away from it for awhile -- which might actually wind up feeling like a bit of a relief to you.
Regarding overanalyzing what everything "means": practice taking people at their word. Practice not filling in some sort of back-story or narrative when you're in a situation that's ambiguous or unresolved. The thing is, when you make up a story to "explain" why something has or hasn't happened, you then react emotionally to it as if the story you just imagined is factually true -- but, when you look at it objectively, you actually have no idea if it's objestively true or not, and often you will eventually find that what really happened is entirely different from the story you made up (and got upset about). This is a very good habit to break, as it will save you an enormous amount of time spent on the hamster wheel in your brain. (Speaking as someone who spent the better part of my life on that hamster wheel.)
Regarding other online interactions: as a general rule, you should move to phone and in-person contact much, much sooner, as it saves you (and the other person) a lot of time and emotional/mental energy from being wasted. Again, when in doubt, get off the hamster wheel. No good comes of it.
posted by scody at 3:49 PM on May 3, 2012 [10 favorites]
Anyway, I am thinking the ball is really now in his court and realize that I deserve if he wants nothing to do with me, as I would be completely turned off he also was not straightforward so maybe it's just a missed opportunity for both of us. Oh well, no biggie, lesson learned for the next guy.
I don't want to initiate or say anything more to him b/cI don't want to start 'chasing' him or bugging him he said "next time" to my explicit invitation, so he can do the asking "next time" (or not). Oh well, no biggie either way.
Should I be doing anything more than just waiting and responding positively IF and when he decides to reply? Am I right in just letting him take it from here? What would you do if you were in my shoes?!
You should do what you want. Stop trying to figure out what he is going to do, or hope that what you do will influence what he does. Just do what you want to do, say what you want to say, and pay attention to what he says/does in response. Then move on to the next guy, or have a great date, depending.
*Keep in mind that we had great, playful conversations and so much in common.
You don't know what you have in common because you only know him online. What people say and what people do are not always the same. If you want to meet him, then say "hey, enough of this online stuff, I'm ready to meet, let's make this happen." If you want to leave it up to him, I don't think he is going to make it happen. Remember, he has waited 4 months just as you have.
I am also definitely still interested in meeting him - he was so sweet, smart, cool and attentive and it appearsI have driven him away :( we may have waited too long. No biggie, lesson learned for the next guy.
(Changed some of your self-blaming language to neutral. You are giving this guy all the power to act or not act, and giving yourself all the blame for the actions he takes or doesn't take. Not exactly fair.)
posted by headnsouth at 3:49 PM on May 3, 2012 [7 favorites]
I don't want to initiate or say anything more to him b/c
Should I be doing anything more than just waiting and responding positively IF and when he decides to reply? Am I right in just letting him take it from here? What would you do if you were in my shoes?!
You should do what you want. Stop trying to figure out what he is going to do, or hope that what you do will influence what he does. Just do what you want to do, say what you want to say, and pay attention to what he says/does in response. Then move on to the next guy, or have a great date, depending.
*Keep in mind that we had great, playful conversations and so much in common.
You don't know what you have in common because you only know him online. What people say and what people do are not always the same. If you want to meet him, then say "hey, enough of this online stuff, I'm ready to meet, let's make this happen." If you want to leave it up to him, I don't think he is going to make it happen. Remember, he has waited 4 months just as you have.
I am also definitely still interested in meeting him - he was so sweet, smart, cool and attentive and it appears
(Changed some of your self-blaming language to neutral. You are giving this guy all the power to act or not act, and giving yourself all the blame for the actions he takes or doesn't take. Not exactly fair.)
posted by headnsouth at 3:49 PM on May 3, 2012 [7 favorites]
He did say "next time". So if you seriously want to see again, why not message him and say "how was (the business trip/friends wedding/etc)? I missed seeing you on Saturday :(" and letting it go from there? There's nothing wrong with asking how his weekend was. Its small talk that you make with your dentist and the people in the elevator for heavens sake. He shouldn't be bothered by it unless he's a jerk... And I doubt he is seeing as how he has been so nice to you for three months. Good luck.
posted by lovelygirl at 4:05 PM on May 3, 2012
posted by lovelygirl at 4:05 PM on May 3, 2012
Look, you seriously need to calm down and just wait for him to make a move; do something fun and don't let your ENTIRE WORLD revolve around him. OP, PLEASE REFRAIN from initiating any more conversations, stalking your online dating page to see when he replies, waiting by your mobile for a text/call from him, and wasting your time feeling miserable. Live your life!
I recommend you
1) turn off all of your electronic devices for the evening
2) go all out and prepare yourself a feast for one! (chocolate smoothie with chicken curry, anyone?)
3) take a long bubble bath while listening to music that makes you smile (TOTO FTW!)
4) put some curling irons in your hair while vegging in pajamas
5) pick up a nice novel
6) go to sleep.
Relax! If he feels that it's meant to be, he'll make it happen.
posted by lotusmish at 4:34 PM on May 3, 2012 [6 favorites]
I recommend you
1) turn off all of your electronic devices for the evening
2) go all out and prepare yourself a feast for one! (chocolate smoothie with chicken curry, anyone?)
3) take a long bubble bath while listening to music that makes you smile (TOTO FTW!)
4) put some curling irons in your hair while vegging in pajamas
5) pick up a nice novel
6) go to sleep.
Relax! If he feels that it's meant to be, he'll make it happen.
posted by lotusmish at 4:34 PM on May 3, 2012 [6 favorites]
P.S. [...] he is my favorite by far out of all the other guys
How can this be? You have never met him.
This is like me saying that there is no pet nicer, cuter, and more well-behaved than the unicorn.
I mean, unicorns are probably great and all, but...but I haven't met one yet. Maybe when I do, I'll decide that they're actually not quite as cute as my cat.
You know?
posted by vivid postcard at 5:24 PM on May 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
How can this be? You have never met him.
This is like me saying that there is no pet nicer, cuter, and more well-behaved than the unicorn.
I mean, unicorns are probably great and all, but...but I haven't met one yet. Maybe when I do, I'll decide that they're actually not quite as cute as my cat.
You know?
posted by vivid postcard at 5:24 PM on May 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
Wow, there's so much going wrong here it's almost hilarious. (No offense.)
First of all, stop overthinking things! You are obsessing over little details when there are only two broad topics you need to keep in mind: 1) message & 2) competition.
1) Message: You need to think about what message you are sending him, what message you want to send him, and -most importantly - keep it consistent. By message, I am not talking about the words you write, I am talking about your actions. By stringing him along for 4 months, you sent the consistent and prolonged message that you are a tease who is only using him to validate her need for attention. Sending him one brief invite isn't going to change all that - he's going to fit that into the mental picture you already established. He probably thinks that you are just contacting him because he stopped paying attention to you, and the second he starts putting in more emotional investment you'll jerk him around again. In order to change that mental picture you need to put at least as much effort into courting him as he put into courting you. It may also help to directly address his concerns "Look, you probably think I'm just using you for attention - and I wouldn't blame you - but I just want to tell you that this is not the case, and if you give me the chance I'd like to demonstrate that to you."
2) Competition: If he's a good guy and has a lot going for him, obviously there are going to be other women interested in him. He must not MENTION that he's dating other girls because trying to get you jealous is just a douchebag move and classy men don't do that, but that doesn't mean he's not. The fact that he responded to you at all means that even though he's probably seeing somebody but it's not serious yet (otherwise, he would enjoy letting you know that you missed your chance - his response means that he's keeping you on the back burner - just in case). And the fact that he thinks you're yanking his chain means that you lost your front-runner status: in fact, you're now way behind in this race. That means you have a very limited window of time to get back in the game and demonstrate your value before he ends up in a commitment.
Frankly, I don't think your odds are good. You're currently behind in the race and have conveyed an picture of yourself that is not very flattering, to say the least. Nevertheless, you do have a small chance. In any case, keeping those two things in mind - message and competition - will help you on future dates, and - with all due respect - you clearly need some help on this score.
posted by wolfdreams01 at 8:32 AM on May 4, 2012
First of all, stop overthinking things! You are obsessing over little details when there are only two broad topics you need to keep in mind: 1) message & 2) competition.
1) Message: You need to think about what message you are sending him, what message you want to send him, and -most importantly - keep it consistent. By message, I am not talking about the words you write, I am talking about your actions. By stringing him along for 4 months, you sent the consistent and prolonged message that you are a tease who is only using him to validate her need for attention. Sending him one brief invite isn't going to change all that - he's going to fit that into the mental picture you already established. He probably thinks that you are just contacting him because he stopped paying attention to you, and the second he starts putting in more emotional investment you'll jerk him around again. In order to change that mental picture you need to put at least as much effort into courting him as he put into courting you. It may also help to directly address his concerns "Look, you probably think I'm just using you for attention - and I wouldn't blame you - but I just want to tell you that this is not the case, and if you give me the chance I'd like to demonstrate that to you."
2) Competition: If he's a good guy and has a lot going for him, obviously there are going to be other women interested in him. He must not MENTION that he's dating other girls because trying to get you jealous is just a douchebag move and classy men don't do that, but that doesn't mean he's not. The fact that he responded to you at all means that even though he's probably seeing somebody but it's not serious yet (otherwise, he would enjoy letting you know that you missed your chance - his response means that he's keeping you on the back burner - just in case). And the fact that he thinks you're yanking his chain means that you lost your front-runner status: in fact, you're now way behind in this race. That means you have a very limited window of time to get back in the game and demonstrate your value before he ends up in a commitment.
Frankly, I don't think your odds are good. You're currently behind in the race and have conveyed an picture of yourself that is not very flattering, to say the least. Nevertheless, you do have a small chance. In any case, keeping those two things in mind - message and competition - will help you on future dates, and - with all due respect - you clearly need some help on this score.
posted by wolfdreams01 at 8:32 AM on May 4, 2012
Response by poster: So what do you suggest I actually do Wolfdreams01?
posted by soooo at 8:55 AM on May 4, 2012
posted by soooo at 8:55 AM on May 4, 2012
OP. The majority of the answers you've received in this thread are irresponsible and appalling. I'm used to much more responsible answers from my fellow Mefites.
The simple fact is that anyone who would drag out an online dating conversation for 4 months has zero intention of meeting up with you IRL. Full stop.
This person will NEVER meet you IRL. NEVER.
Next time, If you don't end up meeting face-to-face within 6 to 10 exchanges and/or 2 weeks - move on.
It's common for weirdos to drag out online dating convos. This guy was toying with you. He's likely bored, not who he says he is, and a coward. Forget him. Block, delete his info, etc..
PROTECT YOURSELF. MOVE ON.
posted by jbenben at 9:14 AM on May 4, 2012 [4 favorites]
The simple fact is that anyone who would drag out an online dating conversation for 4 months has zero intention of meeting up with you IRL. Full stop.
This person will NEVER meet you IRL. NEVER.
Next time, If you don't end up meeting face-to-face within 6 to 10 exchanges and/or 2 weeks - move on.
It's common for weirdos to drag out online dating convos. This guy was toying with you. He's likely bored, not who he says he is, and a coward. Forget him. Block, delete his info, etc..
PROTECT YOURSELF. MOVE ON.
posted by jbenben at 9:14 AM on May 4, 2012 [4 favorites]
So what do you suggest I actually do Wolfdreams01?
First of all, some of the other advice given was good. For example, try to make statements that invite an answer. Saying "OK, have fun :-)" isn't that useful because you're not asking a question or telling him anything interesting. You may have been used to a conversation where he asks you lots of questions about yourself - that is going to stop. He isn't that interested in you anymore. What you need to do in your conversation now is engage him by encouraging him to talk more about himself. For example, "Say, we've been talking for a while and I just realized I don't know X about you." (Where the value of X is something like "what type of music you like", "what your favorite animal is," etc. I anticipate he will give you a brief answer. You respond by asking him why, in a non-critical way that encourages him to express more of his personality. "Really, you like otters? Somehow I thought you'd be more of a tiger person. What do you like about them?"
In the emails/texts/phone convo, you also need to invite him out once in a while - not just for "getting together" (remember, getting together just for the prospect of meeting you is no longer something that he cares about, since he thinks you're a tease) but for something interesting that involves very little effort on his part but carries a good emotional payoff. For example, on Monday write "My friend gave me two free tickets to a comedy show this weekend - want to come?" If he says yes, buy two tickets (it's a necessary white lie in this situation). If he says no, just don't buy them. If he delays for a couple of days and then says he's interested (and you discover they're already sold out), say "I'm sorry, I didn't hear from you so I gave them to a friend. :-( But maybe I could make it up to you by cooking dinner sometime this weekend?"
The most important thing in this stakes-raising game is to make counteroffers. If he says "I'm busy, but I'd love to see you otherwise" don't just say the equivalent of "OK, bye". Engage him with "Would you really? I feel like you might be playing hard to get ;-)" and when he reassures you that no, he really wants to see you, say "OK, lets set a time for next week."
I recognize that my examples are lame (since I don't know anything about his personality, it's hard to tailor specific things that are a better fit) but do you get the general idea? You need to make it easy for him to see you, and tempt him with things other than simply the prospect of meeting you.
posted by wolfdreams01 at 9:39 AM on May 4, 2012
First of all, some of the other advice given was good. For example, try to make statements that invite an answer. Saying "OK, have fun :-)" isn't that useful because you're not asking a question or telling him anything interesting. You may have been used to a conversation where he asks you lots of questions about yourself - that is going to stop. He isn't that interested in you anymore. What you need to do in your conversation now is engage him by encouraging him to talk more about himself. For example, "Say, we've been talking for a while and I just realized I don't know X about you." (Where the value of X is something like "what type of music you like", "what your favorite animal is," etc. I anticipate he will give you a brief answer. You respond by asking him why, in a non-critical way that encourages him to express more of his personality. "Really, you like otters? Somehow I thought you'd be more of a tiger person. What do you like about them?"
In the emails/texts/phone convo, you also need to invite him out once in a while - not just for "getting together" (remember, getting together just for the prospect of meeting you is no longer something that he cares about, since he thinks you're a tease) but for something interesting that involves very little effort on his part but carries a good emotional payoff. For example, on Monday write "My friend gave me two free tickets to a comedy show this weekend - want to come?" If he says yes, buy two tickets (it's a necessary white lie in this situation). If he says no, just don't buy them. If he delays for a couple of days and then says he's interested (and you discover they're already sold out), say "I'm sorry, I didn't hear from you so I gave them to a friend. :-( But maybe I could make it up to you by cooking dinner sometime this weekend?"
The most important thing in this stakes-raising game is to make counteroffers. If he says "I'm busy, but I'd love to see you otherwise" don't just say the equivalent of "OK, bye". Engage him with "Would you really? I feel like you might be playing hard to get ;-)" and when he reassures you that no, he really wants to see you, say "OK, lets set a time for next week."
I recognize that my examples are lame (since I don't know anything about his personality, it's hard to tailor specific things that are a better fit) but do you get the general idea? You need to make it easy for him to see you, and tempt him with things other than simply the prospect of meeting you.
posted by wolfdreams01 at 9:39 AM on May 4, 2012
OMG, GIRL NO! just no. You should not have to read and re-read emails to figure out subtle hints of anything! After 4 months you either go out or you don't. You won't have to worry about "chasing" guys if you just move on after it is clear nothing is happening. You're going down the same path as with the last guy! Work on feeling good about yourself and next time just be direct, let the minnows pass, so you can spend the necessary energy on big fish!
posted by Katine at 10:19 AM on May 4, 2012
posted by Katine at 10:19 AM on May 4, 2012
jbenben - from what are you inferring that? It sounds like the guy made several genuinely efforts to meet and the OP was the person dragging things out, not the other way around.
posted by -harlequin- at 10:35 AM on May 4, 2012
posted by -harlequin- at 10:35 AM on May 4, 2012
Response by poster: So much conflicting advice! I was really hoping for a consensus to make my decision easier.
To clarify, harlequin is right - he made multiple subtle attempts to meet but wasn't aggressive enough where I took them to be jokes or if I didn't follow up right away he let it drop - but still kept talking to me. So I am wondering if he views me as the way Jbenben claims I should view him. He also confessed to being a nerd and shy - so this could explain his subtly.
At this point I do feel like his interest has waned (it is now Fri and he hasn't been on and this was the day I had originally suggested we hang out last week). However, I remember all too well how bad it felt the last time and want to avoid repeating that mistake so it doesn't matter if he was into me before, if he now isn't, I am not going to try to convince him as I did w/ the other guy. I realize that just lowers my value in his eyes.
At this point he knows where I stand, I couldn't have been clearer that I want to meet him so I'll just wait and see if he decides to write and when he does I'll be receptive and implement wolfdream's advice - I think I'll use that "playing hard to get" line too - it's brilliant. In the meantime, I met a guy on Sunday who asked me to go out and I have a date tonight so... if he continues to drag his feet it, HE'LL be the one missing out!
posted by soooo at 10:50 AM on May 4, 2012
To clarify, harlequin is right - he made multiple subtle attempts to meet but wasn't aggressive enough where I took them to be jokes or if I didn't follow up right away he let it drop - but still kept talking to me. So I am wondering if he views me as the way Jbenben claims I should view him. He also confessed to being a nerd and shy - so this could explain his subtly.
At this point I do feel like his interest has waned (it is now Fri and he hasn't been on and this was the day I had originally suggested we hang out last week). However, I remember all too well how bad it felt the last time and want to avoid repeating that mistake so it doesn't matter if he was into me before, if he now isn't, I am not going to try to convince him as I did w/ the other guy. I realize that just lowers my value in his eyes.
At this point he knows where I stand, I couldn't have been clearer that I want to meet him so I'll just wait and see if he decides to write and when he does I'll be receptive and implement wolfdream's advice - I think I'll use that "playing hard to get" line too - it's brilliant. In the meantime, I met a guy on Sunday who asked me to go out and I have a date tonight so... if he continues to drag his feet it, HE'LL be the one missing out!
posted by soooo at 10:50 AM on May 4, 2012
I think I'll use that "playing hard to get" line too - it's brilliant.
I think you need to stop looking for lines to use and games to play.
posted by scody at 11:21 AM on May 4, 2012 [4 favorites]
I think you need to stop looking for lines to use and games to play.
posted by scody at 11:21 AM on May 4, 2012 [4 favorites]
(Sorry, that came off more harsh, as a one-liner, than I intended. By that I mean that I think you need to stop cherry-picking tiny bits of people's advice in order to strategize your next conversation, and start looking at the bigger picture of learning how to be more authentically yourself and stating your needs, interests, etc. more directly.)
posted by scody at 11:23 AM on May 4, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by scody at 11:23 AM on May 4, 2012 [3 favorites]
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