How to be at a social event with people I’ve dreaded seeing for the past ten years?

April 25, 2012 7:28 PM

I am attending the wedding of dear friends at which I will have to see my ex-husband and his new partner—a one-time close friend of ours with whom he cheated while married to me. I am now very happily married to someone else, in a relationship far better in every way than my first marriage. Nevertheless, I absolutely dread seeing my ex-husband and my old friend, and the prospect of seeing them is something I’ve dreaded since I first learned of their, erm, relationship. At the same time, I’d REALLY like to be to defuse the emotional power this has over me, and simply enjoy the wedding and the get-together with many other old friends that comes with it. How to work through this? Any advice from people who have navigated these turbulent emotional waters successfully?

More detail: Ten years ago, my first husband and I divorced, in a way that started out amicable but ended as anything but (typical enough, I know). In the process of the divorce it came out (through a third party, ugh) that my husband had been having a relationship with one of our roommates (who was married to another one of our roommates—double ugh). There were many levels of betrayals and lies here, and the situation was a pretty traumatic one for me (and for her husband as well, needless to say).
I have managed to avoid them both for the past ten years. In that time, I met and married a wonderful man, had a child, began a new career, and am much happier in every way than I was in my previous marriage. So things are going quite well, and when I think about it rationally, I am actually grateful that the horrible things that happened happened, because it allowed me to move on to a much better phase of my life. But at the same time the prospect of being at a social event with them makes me anxious; it’s something I’ve dreaded for so long. So my questions are: What do I say? How do I act? For some reason I feel a profound sense of shame about having been (double?) cheated on. How can I finally stop feeling bad about this, or at least good enough to enjoy the wedding? Anyone have inspiring stories of having made it past a similar situation? [I was in therapy during the divorce, so I'm no stranger to it, but I doubt I would go into therapy again to deal with this at this point in my life.]

posted by anonymous to human relations (35 answers total)

Is there a chance that best way to move on and prevent the situation from having power over you would be to send your regrets and a nice gift to the couple getting married, and to enjoy the day doing something else with your wonderful husband, and not giving the wedding a second thought?
posted by alphanerd at 7:37 PM on April 25, 2012 [5 favorites]

Hold your head up, smile & make eye contact with everyone, and repeat the mantra, "I am the only one in control of my inner peace.". It's hard, it sucks, but you will get though the wedding and be stronger.
posted by Kronur at 7:42 PM on April 25, 2012 [3 favorites]

Attend with an attitude of "owning the room"--
do your best to talk to everyone you can, be gracious, be friendly--enjoy yourself.

You have nothing to be apprehensive about-- enjoy YOUR friends, YOUR family.

Let others come to their own conclusions as you introduce your wonderful husband, talk about your career, and let people know how well you are doing now.

The game in your head could be, " how could I act so that no one can guess that I was ever married to that guy?"
And then try out your scenarios with new people.
posted by calgirl at 7:43 PM on April 25, 2012 [4 favorites]

But at the same time the prospect of being at a social event with them makes me anxious; it’s something I’ve dreaded for so long.

Just think-- after this, it won't be something you have to dread! You haven't done anything wrong, so you shouldn't feel bad about seeing these people. Don't worry if everything doesn't go completely smoothly, just enjoy the parts of the wedding that you can.
posted by BibiRose at 7:48 PM on April 25, 2012 [2 favorites]

Ugh, I don't blame you for stressing a bit over this. But honestly, if you aren't seated with him at your table for the reception (and your friend wouldn't do that, right?), I don't think you'll need to talk with them at all. The last wedding I attended was medium-sized and I really only talked with the people I was seated with and the bridal party. It wasn't even a deliberate thing, it's just that there was only so much time for chatting and I spent that time with the people nearest me.

You sound like you're in such a much better place (Seriously, you rock!) and anyone at that wedding who knows what happened is probably on your side. If you somehow are faced with your ex and his partner, be coolly polite, and excuse yourself as quickly as possible to hang out with people who don't suck. I think it will be totally fine and maybe attending this function will be the thing that gets you over that last hill toward completely putting that crap time behind you?
posted by Aquifer at 7:48 PM on April 25, 2012 [2 favorites]

I think the best approach is to create a mantra of sorts for yourself that They Are Strangers. When you're sitting at the ceremony, they are no different than the rest of the guests. When you happen to see them you greet them politely, but with no artifice, and then you move on. Focus on the couple's joy, reminisce quietly with your husband about your own wedding ceremony, show off pictures of your kid, slow dance a little, and retire early if you like. (For what it's worth, the shame is on them, not you, but you should treat all of that as just a wisp of smoke right now.)

I also recommend getting a massage, a manicure (and/or whatever grooming rituals make you feel confident) and wearing CRAZY-SEXY UNDERWEAR. Yes, I'm serious. It's kind of a Bull Durham thing and kind of a thing I discovered accidentally on my own, but dude, does it work wonders.
posted by argonauta at 7:51 PM on April 25, 2012 [14 favorites]

I was going to ask, for clarification, why you feel anxious. But I think this later sentence is the explanation of what is behind your anxiousness? For some reason I feel a profound sense of shame about having been (double?) cheated on.

That you feel shame, that other people will witness you feeling shame, that other people will look at you and think pejorative things about you as you are feeling and being shamed?

One thing is that in reality there is nothing for you to be ashamed about. I think that most people on Earth would see your husband and his partner as the ones who should be ashamed in that scenario.

Another thing is a phenomenon that it took me a really long time to learn even though it is kind of obvious. I learned this when I first had to start wearing suits for job stuff, and often didn't have time to change clothes before doing other errands and things in my life. Often, WE are the ones who give people the cues to how they should perceive us and how they should treat us. And this is often the case even when the way people are perceiving or treating us is undesirable or negative. I found out very very suddenly that in situations where I would have been ignored, condescended to or given a hard time, if I was wearing a suit and talked in a commanding and authoritative voice, people would treat me like an authority figure in a suit.

So I think that if you dress in a way that, to you, an unashamed person dresses-- if you walk like an unashamed person and talk like an unashamed person-- if you basically just put that on like a suit and wear it, then I think people will naturally treat you that way.
posted by cairdeas at 8:01 PM on April 25, 2012 [13 favorites]

I had a similar experience as you. I was prepared to spend the rest of my life never seeing my ex again, but then it turned out she was going to be at a mutual friend's wedding. Although she and I did not have as traumatic of a breakup as you went through, it was still unpleasant and I think we were both better off apart. I was dreading the event (probably as much as you), but when it came, it wasn't a big deal. We were probably there like 5 minutes before she came over to say hi (I wasn't expecting that). We both acted like adults and chatted a little bit. I don't think her fiance was thrilled to meet me, and my girlfriend (now my wife) probably wasn't too happy that I was giving my ex the time of day. Ultimately, though, we peacefully co-existed in the same (relatively small) wedding reception and again the next day at a group lunch for out-of-towners. Sure, there was probably lingering baggage from our relationship, but it had been 2 or 3 years since we had spoken last, so I think we both just made the decision to let it all go and be civil. We're friends on FB now and share the occasional comment, but we're not BFF or anything.

Obviously, you have a somewhat different relationship situation, but it's been 10 years. Your first step is to let all those feelings of guilt or anger go because they're simply not worth it. You are in a good place, but you will never truly feel good about that until you let go of all that old baggage. You can ignore your ex at the wedding, but who knows, he may come straight over to you and try to strike up a conversation. You can turn around and ignore him, or you can get in a fight, or you can be civil. Only one of those options will spread the most amount of good will around, and seeing as how this is the most important day of someone else's life, you should probably do whatever will keep the peace. Don't worry; it will be easier than you think.
posted by puritycontrol at 8:03 PM on April 25, 2012 [3 favorites]

I have not been in your situation, but I understand your stress. There have been people from my past that I have been anxious to avoid, because they were involved or witnessed an incident that I would prefer to forget. And yet, when I have run into someone from that period in my life, it has been a non-event.

I am usually not a pollyanna, glass-half-full person, but I see this as an opportunity to exorcise a demon that obviously, at least on a subconscious level, has been bothering you for the last 10 years. Go to the wedding, celebrate your friend's love and most importantly realize that no one else is still thinking about what happened to you 10 years ago (except perhaps your ex and his new partner, who in my minds are the ones who should be feeling uncomfortable about showing up). People, even nice, generous, people, are all to varying degrees self-absorbed. Everyone that you know who will be attending that wedding will have had some sort of life changing (at least to them) event that occurred in the last 10 years, be it a relationship gone sour, a lost job, or happier events such as their own wedding or birth of a child, that eclipses anything they may remember about your situation. I'm not sure it this is what you're worried about, but they are not all sitting home waiting to see what's going to happen when you and your ex are in the same room. I think the fact that you have successfully managed to avoid them for 10 years has kept you from moving on, because you are still waiting for the other shoe to drop; that inevitable first run-in. I would bet that if you do go, worst case scenario it will be anti-climatic, and best case scenario, you will be forever freed from the burden of having to worry about running into your ex and/or his partner. You can just be free to live and enjoy your wonderful new life.
posted by kaybdc at 8:10 PM on April 25, 2012 [7 favorites]

Graciousness is your friend here, to the extent that you can manage it: it's like the definition of forgiveness that focuses on it as the only way to act rather than react--you can choose to be gracious, to rest on your knowledge of your own happiness and allow that to help you shake hands and smile and chat as needed.

You get to choose here, and if you are able to convince yourself to choose to be far, far classier than they seem to deserve, you'll likely be fine. Anyone else seeing you will simply see someone smiling and being polite, and you'll know that yes, you're over that and are a better, happier person now.

Good luck.
posted by Levi Stahl at 8:13 PM on April 25, 2012 [2 favorites]

Forgiveness is sublime.

Holding a resentment serves no productive purpose. Allowing yourself to forgive the parties who harmed you is the first step in totally removing the emotions from your past and enabling peace and serenity. Keep looking out the windshield, not in the rear view mirror.
posted by netbros at 8:21 PM on April 25, 2012 [2 favorites]

Would it be possible for you to have your first contact before the wedding, so you get it over with and can enjoy the party? Something like sending an e-mail saying "I hear you're going to be at so-and-so's wedding and wanted to say 'hello' now"? (That message isn't very good; maybe you can come up with a better one.)
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:49 PM on April 25, 2012

For some reason I feel a profound sense of shame about having been (double?) cheated on. How can I finally stop feeling bad about this, or at least good enough to enjoy the wedding?

Whether or not you go to the wedding, you need to let this go. Ten years is too long to be carrying around shame for something that is not your responsibility.

My first marriage ended because of my now ex-husband's infidelity. I understand, and once shared, those feelings of shame. I saw his infidelity as a reflection on me. Over time, and with therapy, I came to see that he was trying to fill a hole inside himself, and his behavior had nothing to do with me at all. Please let the shame go. It doesn't belong to you.

You are likely not the only person dreading this- I can't imagine your ex, or your ex-friend, are relishing the prospect either. The important thing is that you have the moral high ground here, so take it, and own it. Life is better now than it ever would have been.

Seconding argonauta's excellent advice on the crazy-sexy underwear.
posted by ambrosia at 8:58 PM on April 25, 2012 [6 favorites]

Cliche for a reason: living well is the best revenge. Try to stay focused on what a great place your life is in, concentrate on having a great time with your gorgeous spouse at the lovely wedding, and let your ex and his partner just flow into the background. Just because these people were once central to your life, to your happiness and then to your unhappiness, doesn't make them important to you now.
Think of them as being like an unattractive flower arrangement. Your social obligation to your hosts is to be polite about them, but you don't have to pay attention to them beyond that.
posted by gingerest at 9:05 PM on April 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

So your cheating husband ended up with...someone else's cheating wife? You get through the wedding with the satisfaction of knowing that each of them ended up with the exact person that he or she deserved.
posted by lalala1234 at 9:10 PM on April 25, 2012 [7 favorites]

I'm not in your situation wrt my ex, but I have attended a wedding where people that I never wanted to speak to again were also guests. They wanted to make up with my husband for the breach between them (but not me!). Kind friends who were also at the wedding ran interference for me so there was no drama. This was also how things worked when I ran into my ex and his new wife at our favorite local music bar. He was at our assigned table and someone got him to move so I could sit down.

Do you have a kind friend or two who knows the score and can provide a rescue if you need one? If you can set up a plan ahead of time, you'll have confidence that you don't have to keep talking to your ex or his new partner if things go badly. That may make it easier for you to attend with confidence.

(Also seconding the grooming rituals and undies for confidence. It helps me too.)
posted by immlass at 9:19 PM on April 25, 2012

You go, you keep the focus on the reason you came. You do not have to make nice, you just have to be polite. Or at the very least rudimentarily civil. If you bump into one of them, there is no law that you need to chit-chat.

There's not really anything to help the dread going in, but coming out, you may find the weight of years lifted. Do not get drawn in, do not create, fuel, or participate in drama, and good heavens do not get drunk if the opportunity presents itself.
posted by Ys at 9:30 PM on April 25, 2012

Would it be possible for you to have your first contact before the wedding, so you get it over with and can enjoy the party? Something like sending an e-mail saying "I hear you're going to be at so-and-so's wedding and wanted to say 'hello' now"? (That message isn't very good; maybe you can come up with a better one.)

I'm surprised to feel this way, but for some reason this seems like a really good idea to me. You can essentially get any pleasantries out of the way in writing instead of in person, and then if you do have to actually interact with them at the party, instead of being this BIG HUGE MOMENT, it's like, "oh, hey again".
posted by threeants at 9:48 PM on April 25, 2012

threeants: I'm going to take this a step farther and suggest the questioner consider this scenario: When you arrive at the wedding, make a point of seeking out the ex, going over with your husband, and greeting ex and new partner pleasantly, make small talk conversation for five minutes as you would with a casual acquaintance, then say "good evening, enjoy the wedding" and continue to circulate.

I realize you may not feel up to this, but the point is that it defuses the situation by making it real (an actual encounter with the ex) instead of the difficult moment you have imagined it will be.

You haven't mentioned any specific hostility from ex and former during the past 10 years (I mean, he hasn't phoned and made threats or anything iike that) and so it's not like you have an apparent reason to worry about his reacting to your presence with anger. At worst, they're going to be uncomfortable while you're walking across the room, but chances are that as soon as you say, "Hello, how are you?" they'll relax.

This is an opportunity for you to put at least a big chunk of this unhappiness behind you, so I hope you at least think about it.
posted by La Cieca at 10:35 PM on April 25, 2012 [1 favorite]

I think contacting your ex beforehand is a horrible idea. These people treated you badly and now you're going to pretend you're looking forward to seeing them? Um, no.

Go to the wedding, talk to the people you like and try to have a good time. You may not even have occasion to speak with your ex. If you do, be polite and brief, friendly but cool. Don't ask how he's doing or what he's been up to. (Cause who gives a shit.) If he asks you, gush very briefly about your husband and child. ("I'm married to Mr. Amazing and we have a the world's most beautiful little girl/boy.") "Isn't so-and-so's wedding lovely. Enjoy yourselves, take care." Walk away.

Focus on the wedding couple; that's why you're there. Look great but not like you're trying to hard. You've got a great life now, remember that. Dance with your husband, make it romantic for the two of you. Count your blessings.
posted by shoesietart at 10:51 PM on April 25, 2012 [4 favorites]

So things are going quite well, and when I think about it rationally, I am actually grateful that the horrible things that happened happened, because it allowed me to move on to a much better phase of my life. But at the same time the prospect of being at a social event with them makes me anxious; it’s something I’ve dreaded for so long.

Yep, living well is the best revenge. Let it go, this has no power over you and obviously hasn't for quite some time, as evidenced by the fact that you are happy and fulfilled and can clearly see the positives in how things turned out.

Like most of us, you probably can recall a childhood friendship that fell apart badly. Do you still feel shame and guilt? Probably no?. No need to be ashamed of participation in this part of your past either, and no need to be anxious. You're doing great.
posted by desuetude at 11:22 PM on April 25, 2012

while I hesitate to equate this, you are behaving the way a rape victim behaves: no matter how our society's message is transmitted: It wasn't your fault, you have no need to feel shame, shame is a feature in all the rape victims I've spoken to (anecdata).

If you met someone who had been raped, would you be horrified to know that she or he felt terrifying shame when in the presence of their attacker, say in the court-room? Would you want to do something to help that victim feel more comfortable? Would you want to stand with them, strong, tall, and proud to show that victim how proud you were of the actions they were taking?

of course you would! for someone else.

so be that friend for yourself.
posted by Wilder at 3:26 AM on April 26, 2012

You have the moral high ground here. No matter what was going on in your relationship with your ex at the time, they are always going to look like the jerks.

Imagine them saying everything you fear and dont want to hear, now shrinking them down to the size of flies and flicking them away. That episode in your life is so very tiny to the life you have now.

That afternoon or evening or whatever for the wedding will be tiny too.


What are you going to do the next day? Plan something nice with your husband. Something you look forward to.
posted by vitabellosi at 4:01 AM on April 26, 2012

Yeah, I'd try to meet with the 2 of them prior to the wedding, so you get any possible explosion out of the way. . . but, I don't know how you'd do this, but it'd be a good idea.

Also, what "immlass" about seeking out a person who knows what happened between the two of you might help. Especially if this person has sympathy towards your side of the divorce. . .

You don't have to sit with your ex. You don't have to hang out with your ex. You don't have to chat a lot with your ex. Perhaps, nod in their general direction, say 2 or 3 words,and then be with your friends.

Good luck
posted by WestChester22 at 4:04 AM on April 26, 2012

There's so much good advice here, but the underlying theme seems to be *prepare*. Mentally. What you're doing is coming up with what are essentially scripts and preparing your responses. Do you want to pretend they're strangers? Imagine yourself acting that way. Imagine what you'll do if they initiate contact. Do you want to not even see them? Practice that in your head. Do you want to pretend like they don't matter? Visualize yourself being cordial and distantly polite. For me, with an ex who's hurt me, what I go for - what I want them to realize is that their bad behavior was actually the greatest thing they could have done for me, because even though it was painful, it freed me to be able to be much happier than I'd ever been with them. That means, for me, they wouldn't even register beyond the "someone that I used to know" level. Think of someone who IS like that for you, and copy your emotional reaction and response to them for your ex and his new partner.

And it should be said, don't drink too much, stick close to your husband (assuming he'll be at the wedding with you) or friends, and focus on the happiness you're there to celebrate. Remind yourself that they're the ones who should be nervous and embarassed, and if they're not, well, it just reflects even worse on them.
posted by lemniskate at 5:05 AM on April 26, 2012

Stay away from the ex and his wife and try your best to enjoy yourself with your husband and the other folks. If they approach, a curt nod and an "Excuse me, I have to use the ladies' room" is appropriate. Same thing if a third party thinks it's a good idea to get you talking to them. No explanation to anyone else is necessary.

Not going to the wedding is an option too, but if you MIGHT enjoy yourself otherwise, I don't see why the knuckleheads' presence should rob you of that opportunity.

It might be educational to observe discreetly how "happy" they seem, but I wouldn't spend too much time on that. Dollars to donuts he has someone else lined up on the side.
posted by Currer Belfry at 5:56 AM on April 26, 2012

Why should you alter your life, today, because your ex-husband was an unfaithful douche 10 years ago? Don't give him that kind of power. He clearly doesn't deserve it.

It sucks to be cheated in a marriage (been there, done that). The thing to understand is that you can't control what other people do. You can only control what you do.

Defiantly own this moment and enjoy your friends. Dance with your husband and have a few drinks. You'll be happy that you did.

And if you need to...make a joke or two about how happy you are that your ex-h is someone else's problem now.
posted by PsuDab93 at 7:12 AM on April 26, 2012

The best revenge is living well.

Get yourself a new dress if you can afford it and have your hair and make-up done at a salon. Not to prove anything to them, just to make yourself feel confident.

You have a wonderful life and he is married to a proven cheater. People who know the story will talk about how much better off you are now. People who don't know the story will pity him for ever letting you go.
posted by TooFewShoes at 7:14 AM on April 26, 2012

While not exactly the same situation, this might provide some perspective:

"Dear Miss Manners:

"My ex-husband is coming to our daughter's wedding, and, as a matter of fact, giving the bride away. Fine. My daughter wants it that way, and I have no objection. But he wants to bring that bimbo he calls his new wife, who is not much older than our daughter. The divorce was very difficult. She is the one who took him away from me. I held on for a long time, thinking he would get over it. My friends and pastor had explained to me that it is natural for a middle-aged man to panic and have a little fling - but this one went on for three years, and I couldn't take it any longer. I have seen him once or twice since, and have managed to be dignified, but do I really have to see her?

"Gentle Reader:

"...Miss Manners thinks it would be helpful to consider this so that you may be in more of a frame of mind to work on your real question, which is: How can I triumph over my successor in front of all my friends and relations?

"By acting triumphant. How does one act triumphant? Not by being haughty, as is your inclination, but by being generous. There is nothing like the full gratification of one's wishes to convince one that the world is a delightful place and all the people in it just as adorable as they can be.

"Suppose it had been your fondest wish to unload your husband so that you could pursue a clandestine relationship with a man so important that his identity must remain secret, or to exercise your genius as a scriptwriter, or whatever. But because of your kindheartness and your realization of how incompetent he is to fend for himself and how difficult for a woman to tolerate, you despaired of ever ridding yourself of his tiresome presence.

"Along comes a woman eager for the job. But your conscience will not let you jump at the chance. She is too young to know what she is doing. How can you use her ignorance to stick her with this burden? Yet, she insists. Well, you have tried your best to save her. Now it is your turn to live.

"Such a woman would greet her ex-husband's new wife with charm and care, just managing to suppress an air of triumph that would reveal the happiness and relief she has in her post marital life.

"It is not an easy role to play. However, one is on stage, like it or not, at an event such as a wedding, and the alternative is to play an embittered woman who has lost what she wanted."
posted by magstheaxe at 8:24 AM on April 26, 2012 [10 favorites]

Go get 'em.

Someone (on MetaFilter, maybe?) said "Holding a grudge is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies." When I first read that, a bright light shone down on me and angels sang and I felt a couple of real burdens simply fall away.

You may want to consider the idea, too: YOU shouldn't be carrying around any shame, it was THEIR transgression. You are armored in righteousness and accompanied by a good man who loves you, so so sail serenly through the room and know that they are probably curdling inside when they see you.

Again, go get 'em. :7)
posted by wenestvedt at 8:43 AM on April 26, 2012 [2 favorites]

Holding a grudge is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies.

Truer words are hard to come by. Ten years is too long for you to be drinking poison.
posted by ead at 9:21 AM on April 26, 2012

I've run into people I dreaded seeing due to some past conflict, and it was never as scary as I thought it would be. Think of this as your opportunity to bring closure to carrying around all that dread and worry. Say hello, do a little small talk, move on. It'll probably be perfectly fine and you'll feel elated to have dropped the burden you're carrying around.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:59 AM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]

DON'T GET DRUNK. Seriously.

I personally wouldn't go. I think it's a bit rude to invite people who betrayed friends in that horrible way...because wow, are your ex/ex roommate total assholes.
posted by the young rope-rider at 1:24 PM on April 26, 2012 [1 favorite]

Have an escape plan. If your wonderful husband is going with you, then come up with a code word/other engagement/early flight or what have you that means you have to leave.

I mean, during the wedding no one will be talking, so you can get through that and then play the reception by ear. Make sure you kiss the dear friends' cheeks and wish them well in the reception line. Sit down and eat or cruise the buffet, talk to the people you want to see, dance with your wonderful husband, but then if seeing the ex and his partners starts to really get you down or they are nasty to you or something, or you feel the urge rising to go yell at them or possibly throttle them, use your escape code and leave.

Chances are, you won't need to; you'll be gracious, they'll be whatever they're going to be, you will have a better time than you think you will, and everyone moves on.
posted by emjaybee at 7:03 PM on April 26, 2012

I suspect that this will be a lot easier than you expect; you've had a lot of time to build this event into a BIG THING in your mind, but the reality won't be nearly that BIG.

I grew up with a much-older brother who bullied and belittled me. The last time I spoke to him was when I was about 18 and decided I'd had enough of his poison. But I always knew I'd have to confront him again when our parents got old and sick, and I dreaded the moment. A few months ago, at age 47, I finally did see him again, when my father was dying. You know what? It was easy. I went into it focused on what was important--my father and my mother. I barely gave my brother the time of day and focused on my parents; my brother picked up on the vibes I was giving off (he knows what he did) and didn't push it.

I would bet the same thing's going to happen at the wedding. Focus on the wedding, be polite to your ex, and I'm sure he won't try to bond with you or something. I'm sure he and his wife are very aware of what they did, and ashamed about it, so leave them to it and focus on your friends and family.
posted by WorkingMyWayHome at 4:03 PM on April 27, 2012