How can I get my dating life started again
February 4, 2012 9:44 PM
I need help with my dating life, I'm a single straight male, 25y/o, working 60 hour weeks, with limited options.
To those who read and answer I'd like to say a thank you before hand. My question is lengthy and detailed but I think most people will be able to relate to what I say. I hope they find a little of themselves and maybe the responses I get can help others as well.
I am single straight guy, 25 y/o, I'm not a virgin, college graduated, I work 60 hours a week and I live in a quiet community in long island New York
I've been single for two years, one of those years I spent just improving myself and getting back on my feet after a pretty hurtful breakup. The last year I've been putting myself out there but in a very sparse manner.
Before I begin to explain my predicament, I am going to make a small note on what I want. I'm looking to date women, and date them seriously to learn more about them and see if something can come out of it. That means I'm not looking for sex right off the bat, I love sex but I am not looking for it. I want to date you a few times and if there is a connection then sex can come into the picture.
I am also NOT looking for my soul mate and true love, just dates with women. Its my approach that it takes a few dates to see if there is anything between two people that can be classified as special. I think soul mates and true love comes after you've put yourself out there, dated a few times and sifted through the dirt and find the gold left behind.
Not to come across as picky and arrogant but I would like the advice I get to be practical and less theoretical and emotional. I understand that you have to be happy with your life before you find someone, and my personal beliefs are that evry person has a core happiness that they alone are responsible for and that romantic interest/lovers/partners w.e add to that core happiness. I also don't believe in the philosophy "don't worry just live life" or "It happens when you least expect it" especially for men who are introverted and shy and it takes a great effort to interact with the opposite sex. I believe that men and women have to take an active role in taking charge of their dating.
I used to be painfully shy and I would say that I still am, and I know that's something that I want to work on and I do try. I've gotten loads better from when I was younger. But that's just some background history about me. I used to have severe social anxiety having a hard time getting on a bus now I can go into a bar and not feel as bad as I once did.
This past month I reached a point where I would like to get serious about my dating strategy as I feel my life slipping by and by that I mean doing something, anything in a repeatable fashion that allows me to meet the most single women out there.
After reading about other people's troubles with dating I find that through some research done by social scientists they claim that most people will meet the opposite sex through a variety of ways but the biggest percentage being:
-Friends
(friends throw parties, weddings, even set you up in some cases, you meet the women/men there)
-Work
(self explanatory)
-College
(class, groups, frats etc..)
Now unfortunately for me each of these avenues has been exhausted and hold little promise and I'm not trying to sound defeatist but the reality for me is:
-I have three friends in total and about four acquaintances, one of my friends is married and the other is dating a woman for 4 years. I have been introduced to all the women my friends know which is about 2 women in total and it didnt work out between us. My third friend is newly single, more about this later. My four acquaintances I am trying to turn them into closer friends but its going to be some time before I get into their respective social circles. met my last girl friend through friends that I had but have now moved away.
- College well I graduated so that's out
-Most of the people I work with are older 40+ and there is one young single girl who is in the office who likes another guy in the office who is my age. I figured that if I cant meet any women in my office maybe I can try expanding my social circle at least and who knows who you meet down the road. However the one guy in the office who is my age is very closed off and unfriendly and its hard building that rapport so that I can leverage that into friendship outside of the office.
Okay so far I feel very trapped so I did more research and realized that I will need to expand further out and try new things and I came up with these scenario's:
-Meetup Groups
-Trying to pick up women at a bar
-Trying to pick up women at coffee shops, bookstores, grocery stores etc.
-Online Dating
Here is what I have to say about each one of these avenues and of course its just my analysis and maybe the reason I am having trouble and needs changing.
-Meetup groups is a great concept and I love what it represents however I search group after group looking at the people who RSVP and I don't see any young single women. Its usually older women 40+ and I am 25. Even though it would be great to go and meet people aside from the dating aspect.
-Picking up women at bars, now remember I am shy and introverted but last night I went with my one single friend to a bar and I approached three groups of girls who we talked to for about a few minutes each. One of the women I met I managed to have a half way decent conversation and I asked for her number after talking to her for five minutes or so "You have an interesting persona about you, I'd like to get to know you better, lets grab some coffee some time" she smiled and look enthusiastic and gave me her number. I wanted her to know, I was not looking for sex, I want to get to know her better and like to take her out. I sent her a text today and I got no response from her, she flaked.
I might call her in case she didn't see the text but I doubt it, I understand that women give their numbers to men to avoid an awkward situation, to avoid an outright rejection. Which is fine, you don't have to like me its your right to chose not to.
-Picking up women at grocery stores, and bookstores I haven't tried this before quite frankly it feels very nerve racking to chat up strangers that I don't know in this type of place. It just makes me very nervous to ask a girl what she is reading at a B&N or w.e.
-Online dating I tried about a few months ago for a solid two months and I sent out about 200-300 emails and they were relevant and not a blast campaign. I got perhaps five replies and two women who I had a running conversation with who I asked to hang out and they just faded into the wind.
Now I know by now you must be thinking that this guy is making excuses and will never meet anyone if he keeps throwing obstacles in his way. He seems to be complaining and I hope that I don't come across that way but I'm just trying to lay down my own experiences.
Now I guess I get to the meat of the question simply put what do I do now?
I am looking to meet and date women, my age in a consistent and repeatable fashion where i am CONFIDENT that I am spending my limited amount of free time in the best possible way.
The real problem here is my TIME, I am very busy I work a 60 hour work week and I the little I do have I need to spend it wisely in pursuit of what I want.
Do I spend time trying to make new friends at Meetup, group events so that hopefully down the line I can meet people and meet a potential date?
Do I spend my time trying to meet women at bars after work, and trying to play the numbers game approach 100 women and maybe get one date
Do I try to get over my fear and approach women at bookstores and grocery stores etc?
Do I give online dating another shot, even though I am not photogenic and honestly like a 6/10 in the look department?
For a guy with not too much time on his hands, with the limited social circle and nothing at work, in a young age range etc...
What would be a good method for me to invest my time in?
Thank you guys for reading my posts
To those who read and answer I'd like to say a thank you before hand. My question is lengthy and detailed but I think most people will be able to relate to what I say. I hope they find a little of themselves and maybe the responses I get can help others as well.
I am single straight guy, 25 y/o, I'm not a virgin, college graduated, I work 60 hours a week and I live in a quiet community in long island New York
I've been single for two years, one of those years I spent just improving myself and getting back on my feet after a pretty hurtful breakup. The last year I've been putting myself out there but in a very sparse manner.
Before I begin to explain my predicament, I am going to make a small note on what I want. I'm looking to date women, and date them seriously to learn more about them and see if something can come out of it. That means I'm not looking for sex right off the bat, I love sex but I am not looking for it. I want to date you a few times and if there is a connection then sex can come into the picture.
I am also NOT looking for my soul mate and true love, just dates with women. Its my approach that it takes a few dates to see if there is anything between two people that can be classified as special. I think soul mates and true love comes after you've put yourself out there, dated a few times and sifted through the dirt and find the gold left behind.
Not to come across as picky and arrogant but I would like the advice I get to be practical and less theoretical and emotional. I understand that you have to be happy with your life before you find someone, and my personal beliefs are that evry person has a core happiness that they alone are responsible for and that romantic interest/lovers/partners w.e add to that core happiness. I also don't believe in the philosophy "don't worry just live life" or "It happens when you least expect it" especially for men who are introverted and shy and it takes a great effort to interact with the opposite sex. I believe that men and women have to take an active role in taking charge of their dating.
I used to be painfully shy and I would say that I still am, and I know that's something that I want to work on and I do try. I've gotten loads better from when I was younger. But that's just some background history about me. I used to have severe social anxiety having a hard time getting on a bus now I can go into a bar and not feel as bad as I once did.
This past month I reached a point where I would like to get serious about my dating strategy as I feel my life slipping by and by that I mean doing something, anything in a repeatable fashion that allows me to meet the most single women out there.
After reading about other people's troubles with dating I find that through some research done by social scientists they claim that most people will meet the opposite sex through a variety of ways but the biggest percentage being:
-Friends
(friends throw parties, weddings, even set you up in some cases, you meet the women/men there)
-Work
(self explanatory)
-College
(class, groups, frats etc..)
Now unfortunately for me each of these avenues has been exhausted and hold little promise and I'm not trying to sound defeatist but the reality for me is:
-I have three friends in total and about four acquaintances, one of my friends is married and the other is dating a woman for 4 years. I have been introduced to all the women my friends know which is about 2 women in total and it didnt work out between us. My third friend is newly single, more about this later. My four acquaintances I am trying to turn them into closer friends but its going to be some time before I get into their respective social circles. met my last girl friend through friends that I had but have now moved away.
- College well I graduated so that's out
-Most of the people I work with are older 40+ and there is one young single girl who is in the office who likes another guy in the office who is my age. I figured that if I cant meet any women in my office maybe I can try expanding my social circle at least and who knows who you meet down the road. However the one guy in the office who is my age is very closed off and unfriendly and its hard building that rapport so that I can leverage that into friendship outside of the office.
Okay so far I feel very trapped so I did more research and realized that I will need to expand further out and try new things and I came up with these scenario's:
-Meetup Groups
-Trying to pick up women at a bar
-Trying to pick up women at coffee shops, bookstores, grocery stores etc.
-Online Dating
Here is what I have to say about each one of these avenues and of course its just my analysis and maybe the reason I am having trouble and needs changing.
-Meetup groups is a great concept and I love what it represents however I search group after group looking at the people who RSVP and I don't see any young single women. Its usually older women 40+ and I am 25. Even though it would be great to go and meet people aside from the dating aspect.
-Picking up women at bars, now remember I am shy and introverted but last night I went with my one single friend to a bar and I approached three groups of girls who we talked to for about a few minutes each. One of the women I met I managed to have a half way decent conversation and I asked for her number after talking to her for five minutes or so "You have an interesting persona about you, I'd like to get to know you better, lets grab some coffee some time" she smiled and look enthusiastic and gave me her number. I wanted her to know, I was not looking for sex, I want to get to know her better and like to take her out. I sent her a text today and I got no response from her, she flaked.
I might call her in case she didn't see the text but I doubt it, I understand that women give their numbers to men to avoid an awkward situation, to avoid an outright rejection. Which is fine, you don't have to like me its your right to chose not to.
-Picking up women at grocery stores, and bookstores I haven't tried this before quite frankly it feels very nerve racking to chat up strangers that I don't know in this type of place. It just makes me very nervous to ask a girl what she is reading at a B&N or w.e.
-Online dating I tried about a few months ago for a solid two months and I sent out about 200-300 emails and they were relevant and not a blast campaign. I got perhaps five replies and two women who I had a running conversation with who I asked to hang out and they just faded into the wind.
Now I know by now you must be thinking that this guy is making excuses and will never meet anyone if he keeps throwing obstacles in his way. He seems to be complaining and I hope that I don't come across that way but I'm just trying to lay down my own experiences.
Now I guess I get to the meat of the question simply put what do I do now?
I am looking to meet and date women, my age in a consistent and repeatable fashion where i am CONFIDENT that I am spending my limited amount of free time in the best possible way.
The real problem here is my TIME, I am very busy I work a 60 hour work week and I the little I do have I need to spend it wisely in pursuit of what I want.
Do I spend time trying to make new friends at Meetup, group events so that hopefully down the line I can meet people and meet a potential date?
Do I spend my time trying to meet women at bars after work, and trying to play the numbers game approach 100 women and maybe get one date
Do I try to get over my fear and approach women at bookstores and grocery stores etc?
Do I give online dating another shot, even though I am not photogenic and honestly like a 6/10 in the look department?
For a guy with not too much time on his hands, with the limited social circle and nothing at work, in a young age range etc...
What would be a good method for me to invest my time in?
Thank you guys for reading my posts
Agreed, as a fellow long islander (long beach, woo!), the city is where you should be. That's not to say OKC won't work, but things are much easier in the city.
posted by Brian Puccio at 9:55 PM on February 4, 2012
posted by Brian Puccio at 9:55 PM on February 4, 2012
Meetups - many people don't RSVP, but go anyway. And that behavior is usually amplified the younger the responder. So just because you're not seeing younger women RSVPing, that doesn't mean they aren't going.
Approaching in everyday life (bookstores, the subway, etc) - this works on me. So yes, I'd get over your fear and do it. The best way it's been done on me to not seem creepy has been to keep the conversation short, and perhaps pass them a note with your number and a sweet message and then walk away. Let them reengage if they are interested.
Bars - I'm not a bar person, but your anecdote sounds fine. Not everyone will be enthusiastic; all of these approaches are number games.
Online dating - Get the best possible photos. Have friends look over your profile. If you Memail me a link, I'll look it over for you. Send short intro messages that grab a hook in the woman's profile, but it's really about your profile, so you need to make it personal but not too turn-off-able.
posted by vegartanipla at 9:57 PM on February 4, 2012
Approaching in everyday life (bookstores, the subway, etc) - this works on me. So yes, I'd get over your fear and do it. The best way it's been done on me to not seem creepy has been to keep the conversation short, and perhaps pass them a note with your number and a sweet message and then walk away. Let them reengage if they are interested.
Bars - I'm not a bar person, but your anecdote sounds fine. Not everyone will be enthusiastic; all of these approaches are number games.
Online dating - Get the best possible photos. Have friends look over your profile. If you Memail me a link, I'll look it over for you. Send short intro messages that grab a hook in the woman's profile, but it's really about your profile, so you need to make it personal but not too turn-off-able.
posted by vegartanipla at 9:57 PM on February 4, 2012
yes, go to meetups. even if it is just the older women there, they might have friends or cousins or siblings more in your age range. that's part of widening your circle to meet more people and women specifically. let people know you're single and looking to date. you'll probably meet a bunch of people who don't interest you, but if you really want to take charge of your dating life, you're going to have to widen your scope and socialize. some advice i've heard is strike up a conversation with a stranger once a day - whether they're date material or not (it might be even better if they're not) - it'll help you get over nerves and get you used to talking to people you don't know.
posted by nadawi at 10:05 PM on February 4, 2012
posted by nadawi at 10:05 PM on February 4, 2012
Which online dating service did you use. N-thing getting the best possible photos. You should hire someone with a real camera and real photography skills to take them. Short messages are best. Personalized messages are frankly for when you've caught her attention. Don't waste your time writing someone a personalized letter unless you are sure they might be interested.
You might also try http://www.grubwithus.com/
N-thing that Long Island is an issue. I've ruled out men because they lived in the suburbs before. Most single twenty-somethings in the NYC metro area live in the city and New Yorkers can be weird about even dating someone from another borough and might not even consider someone from Long Island. Are there many singles in your area or are all the matches you are getting in NYC? If that's the case, it might be worth making it clear you are willing to travel to the city for dates (if you aren't already commuting there).
posted by melissam at 10:06 PM on February 4, 2012
You might also try http://www.grubwithus.com/
N-thing that Long Island is an issue. I've ruled out men because they lived in the suburbs before. Most single twenty-somethings in the NYC metro area live in the city and New Yorkers can be weird about even dating someone from another borough and might not even consider someone from Long Island. Are there many singles in your area or are all the matches you are getting in NYC? If that's the case, it might be worth making it clear you are willing to travel to the city for dates (if you aren't already commuting there).
posted by melissam at 10:06 PM on February 4, 2012
"I am very busy I work a 60 hour work week and I the little I do have I need to spend it wisely in pursuit of what I want."
Multitask. Pursue what you want, but pursue more than one want at a time. If you enjoy running, join a running club where you will meet women who also enjoy running. If your most favorite thing is sitting at a coffee shop reading a paper then look for coffee shops where young women go. Your time is valuable. Use it efficiently.
Don't worry too much about not being photogenic. You want to keep yourself as healthy and tidy as possible but aside from that, looks aren't that important to women. The fact that you have a career at 25 is very sexy. Women like men who are focused and ambitious.
You didn't mention anything about church. You may not find a woman your age there but their moms will be there. A single man, with a job, who goes to church, is exactly what these ladies are looking for for their daughters.
posted by myselfasme at 10:08 PM on February 4, 2012
Multitask. Pursue what you want, but pursue more than one want at a time. If you enjoy running, join a running club where you will meet women who also enjoy running. If your most favorite thing is sitting at a coffee shop reading a paper then look for coffee shops where young women go. Your time is valuable. Use it efficiently.
Don't worry too much about not being photogenic. You want to keep yourself as healthy and tidy as possible but aside from that, looks aren't that important to women. The fact that you have a career at 25 is very sexy. Women like men who are focused and ambitious.
You didn't mention anything about church. You may not find a woman your age there but their moms will be there. A single man, with a job, who goes to church, is exactly what these ladies are looking for for their daughters.
posted by myselfasme at 10:08 PM on February 4, 2012
OK, I'm gonna be brutally honest here because it's what you need and you said you wanted practical:
- First: tl;dr, dude, tl;dr. I got tired just reading through this entire thing, and I suspect this comes out in your messages. It also comes off a bit formal, a bit stuffy. And this is going to really suck to hear, but in a dating situation, formal and stuffy comes off as creepy.
- For instance, this is creepy, right here: "I search group after group looking at the people who RSVP and I don't see any young single women." I mean, I'm on record as not really liking Meetup, but the site doesn't exist to troll for singles. It exists, in theory, to get together with people who have similar hobbies.
- If you want to meet people in NYC, Long Island is a liability. Sorry. It is. I'm not even talking about the douches who won't date outside Manhattan or Williamsburg, I'm talking about the LIRR sucking ass to use if you're gonna get to dates, get to people's apartments (which is the end goal, no?). I don't know how much you're paying, but there are quiet NYC neighborhoods too with cheapish rents.
- What's your job? I probably work 60 hours a week, and I've still got free time. This is probably the crux of the issue right here. I struggle with this myself, because my job and my biggest hobby are now the same, but if you seem like you're a workaholic or that you have no hobbies outside work, lots of people see this as an issue.
- Good luck. Dating sucks for everyone except, I dunno, Benedict Cumberbatch. You're 25, you have plenty of time.
posted by dekathelon at 10:09 PM on February 4, 2012
- First: tl;dr, dude, tl;dr. I got tired just reading through this entire thing, and I suspect this comes out in your messages. It also comes off a bit formal, a bit stuffy. And this is going to really suck to hear, but in a dating situation, formal and stuffy comes off as creepy.
- For instance, this is creepy, right here: "I search group after group looking at the people who RSVP and I don't see any young single women." I mean, I'm on record as not really liking Meetup, but the site doesn't exist to troll for singles. It exists, in theory, to get together with people who have similar hobbies.
- If you want to meet people in NYC, Long Island is a liability. Sorry. It is. I'm not even talking about the douches who won't date outside Manhattan or Williamsburg, I'm talking about the LIRR sucking ass to use if you're gonna get to dates, get to people's apartments (which is the end goal, no?). I don't know how much you're paying, but there are quiet NYC neighborhoods too with cheapish rents.
- What's your job? I probably work 60 hours a week, and I've still got free time. This is probably the crux of the issue right here. I struggle with this myself, because my job and my biggest hobby are now the same, but if you seem like you're a workaholic or that you have no hobbies outside work, lots of people see this as an issue.
- Good luck. Dating sucks for everyone except, I dunno, Benedict Cumberbatch. You're 25, you have plenty of time.
posted by dekathelon at 10:09 PM on February 4, 2012
Go and do activities that are filled with mostly women. These should be recurring activities where the same group meets regularly so that you can get to know people slowly, and it won't be as hard for you being shy.
Here are some activities off the top of my head that are filled with mostly women:
-Volunteering at animal shelters or rescues. Especially volunteering with the cats. Pit bull rescues are the only thing in this category that seem to have more men.
-Yoga classes
-Cooking classes
-Gardening classes
-Knitting classes and knitting clubs
-General craftmaking classes and clubs
-Book clubs. Especially feminist book clubs will have mostly women.
-Anything to do with activism around gay rights will have way fewer straight men involved than straight women, and there are usually a lot of straight women.
-Church groups. Lot of churches these days skew older but make a post on Yelp seeking a church in your area that has a lot of young people, you'll find one.
-Volunteering with children. Big Brothers/Big Sisters seems to always have a deficit of Big Brothers.
Do not go to these activities and start blatantly hitting on people. Pick one that you have or can muster some genuine interest in. Let friendships start forming naturally.
posted by cairdeas at 10:25 PM on February 4, 2012
Here are some activities off the top of my head that are filled with mostly women:
-Volunteering at animal shelters or rescues. Especially volunteering with the cats. Pit bull rescues are the only thing in this category that seem to have more men.
-Yoga classes
-Cooking classes
-Gardening classes
-Knitting classes and knitting clubs
-General craftmaking classes and clubs
-Book clubs. Especially feminist book clubs will have mostly women.
-Anything to do with activism around gay rights will have way fewer straight men involved than straight women, and there are usually a lot of straight women.
-Church groups. Lot of churches these days skew older but make a post on Yelp seeking a church in your area that has a lot of young people, you'll find one.
-Volunteering with children. Big Brothers/Big Sisters seems to always have a deficit of Big Brothers.
Do not go to these activities and start blatantly hitting on people. Pick one that you have or can muster some genuine interest in. Let friendships start forming naturally.
posted by cairdeas at 10:25 PM on February 4, 2012
Yoga.
posted by the foreground at 10:44 PM on February 4, 2012
posted by the foreground at 10:44 PM on February 4, 2012
Gonna agree with folks: volunteer with something you actually like, move to the city if possible. I live in NYC and would not date someone in LI. The train situation is not cute. People don't want to commute over 45 minutes, on train schedules, for a date.
What about a co-ed sport at a local rec center? Is there a local professional association you can join? Do you have a dog, or can you borrow a dog, and go hang out at the park? Girls love a puppy. That can definitely get their attention.
Also I wonder if you are trying too hard and pressuring yourself too much. You wrote so much here--I hope you are less wordy and more casual in your online date correspondence.
posted by manicure12 at 10:56 PM on February 4, 2012
What about a co-ed sport at a local rec center? Is there a local professional association you can join? Do you have a dog, or can you borrow a dog, and go hang out at the park? Girls love a puppy. That can definitely get their attention.
Also I wonder if you are trying too hard and pressuring yourself too much. You wrote so much here--I hope you are less wordy and more casual in your online date correspondence.
posted by manicure12 at 10:56 PM on February 4, 2012
I didn't have the patience to read the whole thing, but I wanted to share with you my extremely negative reaction to the following: "I think soul mates and true love comes after you've put yourself out there, dated a few times and sifted through the dirt and find the gold left behind. " YOWZA. People that you date that you don't end up feeling are your one true love ARE NOT "dirt". If this attitude even slightly comes through in your interactions with potential dates, you are going to put people off. Please have a serious sit-down chat with yourself on valuing other human beings you date who don't happen to be a perfect match for you.
posted by parrot_person at 10:58 PM on February 4, 2012
posted by parrot_person at 10:58 PM on February 4, 2012
If you're an introvert, you should flourish in an online dating environment; women can be interested and attracted to who you are before they learn that you used to be painfully shy.
Be more selective with your online dating (e.g. the site - if you're batting out on one site, try another).
Make sure that your emails are pithy and relevant to the recipient. Your ask came off as overly verbose and rather boring, make sure that pattern isn't repeated elsewhere. Don't mention what you're looking for (and definitely not the business about True Love or sex). You're looking for a relationship, if all goes well. If not, you aren't.
posted by arnicae at 11:01 PM on February 4, 2012
Be more selective with your online dating (e.g. the site - if you're batting out on one site, try another).
Make sure that your emails are pithy and relevant to the recipient. Your ask came off as overly verbose and rather boring, make sure that pattern isn't repeated elsewhere. Don't mention what you're looking for (and definitely not the business about True Love or sex). You're looking for a relationship, if all goes well. If not, you aren't.
posted by arnicae at 11:01 PM on February 4, 2012
I agree with myselfasme- multitask. But note that it will take time just to meet women to date. You may have to show up several times before people warm up to you. Once they see you aren't a weirdo, then the magic starts to happen. They might suggest a friend, or that woman might be more likely to give you her number. But this won't happen this week, or this month. It can take months.
And the woman you texted that didn't respond? Call her. Women are often socialized to be very passive about dating. This can also be a tool that women use to screen men- in theory, the men that give up easily just wanted sex anyway. (Note that I am not saying you should stalk a woman.) Just make it clear that you are interested. I am not sure a text does that. You could text while watching tv or something else, so it doesn't say to the woman that she is special or interesting like a phone call does.
posted by Monday at 11:08 PM on February 4, 2012
And the woman you texted that didn't respond? Call her. Women are often socialized to be very passive about dating. This can also be a tool that women use to screen men- in theory, the men that give up easily just wanted sex anyway. (Note that I am not saying you should stalk a woman.) Just make it clear that you are interested. I am not sure a text does that. You could text while watching tv or something else, so it doesn't say to the woman that she is special or interesting like a phone call does.
posted by Monday at 11:08 PM on February 4, 2012
You've already gotten some good advice, so I'll focus on something I don't think anyone else has mentioned.
You rate yourself as a 6/10. I think that might be part of your problem--your self-assessment is critical. I think you need to get to a place where you think of yourself as good-looking. I'd suggest working on your self-esteem and confidence (but that's the theoretical and emotional advice you didn't want). My practical advice is to make the best of what you have to make the best possible impression in the little time you have.
Assess your haircut (Is it stylish? Perhaps try a hair salon with a great reputation for serving good-looking young men. Check Yelp reviews).
Assess your wardrobe. (Is everything in great condition? Does it fit well? Stylish? Would it attract the kind of ladies you're looking to date? If not, look in AskMe archives for men's fashion advice or ask another question next week.)
Do you work out? If not, I'd try it. I'm not suggesting that you be a certain size or have a specific body type (I'm very fat-positive), but for a lot of people it builds self-confidence and makes them feel better about themselves. You might meet someone at a gym, but I wouldn't put a lot of effort into it--it can come across as very creepy.
Have you been to the dentist lately? Make sure you're taking care of any dental issues, so that you don't have bad breath.
Do you take care of yourself in general? Are you well-groomed? Do you have flaky skin, acne, patchy facial hair, ragged fingernails? Assess yourself. Put some effort into grooming yourself, if you don't already.
Some of this might seem ridiculous. Maybe you're doing it already, or don't see the importance of these things... but when you emphasize how little time you have to meet people, then you are going to have to focus on making a good impression of those you do meet.
posted by studioaudience at 11:16 PM on February 4, 2012
You rate yourself as a 6/10. I think that might be part of your problem--your self-assessment is critical. I think you need to get to a place where you think of yourself as good-looking. I'd suggest working on your self-esteem and confidence (but that's the theoretical and emotional advice you didn't want). My practical advice is to make the best of what you have to make the best possible impression in the little time you have.
Assess your haircut (Is it stylish? Perhaps try a hair salon with a great reputation for serving good-looking young men. Check Yelp reviews).
Assess your wardrobe. (Is everything in great condition? Does it fit well? Stylish? Would it attract the kind of ladies you're looking to date? If not, look in AskMe archives for men's fashion advice or ask another question next week.)
Do you work out? If not, I'd try it. I'm not suggesting that you be a certain size or have a specific body type (I'm very fat-positive), but for a lot of people it builds self-confidence and makes them feel better about themselves. You might meet someone at a gym, but I wouldn't put a lot of effort into it--it can come across as very creepy.
Have you been to the dentist lately? Make sure you're taking care of any dental issues, so that you don't have bad breath.
Do you take care of yourself in general? Are you well-groomed? Do you have flaky skin, acne, patchy facial hair, ragged fingernails? Assess yourself. Put some effort into grooming yourself, if you don't already.
Some of this might seem ridiculous. Maybe you're doing it already, or don't see the importance of these things... but when you emphasize how little time you have to meet people, then you are going to have to focus on making a good impression of those you do meet.
posted by studioaudience at 11:16 PM on February 4, 2012
Pick up an ebook on PUA or seduction-- common sense is the least efficient thing to rely on, in this field. (The exact PUA school or method you choose doesn't matter all that much; some are faster than others, some are simpler than others, but with sufficient practice, they all work fairly well.) In contrast to what you'd get from the promptings of common sense and intuition, and the behavior you see in romantic comedies, specialized seduction technique, precision, insight, and repetition have the potential to give you tremendously good results, relatively quickly. The logic to attracting women is highly counter-intuitive, but also extremely consistent.
Armed with that information, go to a place you don't know, filled with people you don't know.
Then practice.
Practice often.
Don't focus on results, just on repeating the process as often as possible.
Eventually, your nervous system will relax into the process, and you'll find it becoming fun, and you'll find yourself becoming successful.
posted by darth_tedious at 11:26 PM on February 4, 2012
Armed with that information, go to a place you don't know, filled with people you don't know.
Then practice.
Practice often.
Don't focus on results, just on repeating the process as often as possible.
Eventually, your nervous system will relax into the process, and you'll find it becoming fun, and you'll find yourself becoming successful.
posted by darth_tedious at 11:26 PM on February 4, 2012
DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, PICK UP AN EBOOK ON PUA OR SEDUCTION.
Sorry for bold, but jesus hell, no. Even if the community wasn't largely misogynistic bullshit, scams or all of the above, dude, the last thing you need to add to your dossier here is PUA shit. That is also creepy. Litmus test: would you tell a potential date, maybe five dates in, that you did this? No? Might be creepy.
posted by dekathelon at 11:38 PM on February 4, 2012
Sorry for bold, but jesus hell, no. Even if the community wasn't largely misogynistic bullshit, scams or all of the above, dude, the last thing you need to add to your dossier here is PUA shit. That is also creepy. Litmus test: would you tell a potential date, maybe five dates in, that you did this? No? Might be creepy.
posted by dekathelon at 11:38 PM on February 4, 2012
DON'T think of yourself as a 6/10-- it's good to be realistic, but you don't sound like you're trawling for supermodels. There are too many factors inherent in attraction to put a number on yourself. Plus, confidence goes a long way. If you are a decent looking guy with a career who grooms properly, you are a good catch.
I would respond well to a sane-looking man who approached me in a bookstore or coffee shop. The nice thing about this is you can practice and it's pretty low-risk-- you can just seem like a stranger making conversation, and you probably won't see the women you talk to ever again (unless it goes somewhere).
I am a shy woman who has had several relationships, and they all began by meeting someone in a group who I had initial chemistry with. I agree with you that sex and thoughts of "the one" don't need to enter into it right away, but finding someone who shares your interests at a meet-up or book club or something will start things out on the right foot. If "spark" never happens for you, try to approach women who seem likable to you, and see if conversation comes easily. It won't help you game them or whatever, but there's no such thing as "friend zone."
Please don't rely on a PUA book. I don't doubt that they work, but I can't help but think that it will subtly poison the way you think about relationships, and it will be harder to find someone you're compatible with if you're working from a set of axioms that have nothing to do with how you naturally feel about dating. If you do buy one, please look for one that is on the less offensive side. (Before I am accused of ignorance, I have read many of these books and the majority of them were repugnant.) I will boil down the most useful info for you: be prepared to fail, and don't feel intimidated. The good stuff is all about self-confidence and the knowledge that no one woman should make you feel desperate. The bad stuff will make you dishonest and a less interesting person.
"The problem with being a pickup artist is that there are concepts like sincerity, genuineness, trust and connection that are important to women. And all the techniques that are so effective in beginning a relationship violate every principle necessary to maintaining one." - Neil Strauss, reporter & pick-up artist who wrote a (fairly gentle) exposé on PUA culture.
posted by stoneandstar at 11:54 PM on February 4, 2012
I would respond well to a sane-looking man who approached me in a bookstore or coffee shop. The nice thing about this is you can practice and it's pretty low-risk-- you can just seem like a stranger making conversation, and you probably won't see the women you talk to ever again (unless it goes somewhere).
I am a shy woman who has had several relationships, and they all began by meeting someone in a group who I had initial chemistry with. I agree with you that sex and thoughts of "the one" don't need to enter into it right away, but finding someone who shares your interests at a meet-up or book club or something will start things out on the right foot. If "spark" never happens for you, try to approach women who seem likable to you, and see if conversation comes easily. It won't help you game them or whatever, but there's no such thing as "friend zone."
Please don't rely on a PUA book. I don't doubt that they work, but I can't help but think that it will subtly poison the way you think about relationships, and it will be harder to find someone you're compatible with if you're working from a set of axioms that have nothing to do with how you naturally feel about dating. If you do buy one, please look for one that is on the less offensive side. (Before I am accused of ignorance, I have read many of these books and the majority of them were repugnant.) I will boil down the most useful info for you: be prepared to fail, and don't feel intimidated. The good stuff is all about self-confidence and the knowledge that no one woman should make you feel desperate. The bad stuff will make you dishonest and a less interesting person.
"The problem with being a pickup artist is that there are concepts like sincerity, genuineness, trust and connection that are important to women. And all the techniques that are so effective in beginning a relationship violate every principle necessary to maintaining one." - Neil Strauss, reporter & pick-up artist who wrote a (fairly gentle) exposé on PUA culture.
posted by stoneandstar at 11:54 PM on February 4, 2012
Oh, and you can use OKCupid's "My Best Face" site to find out which profile pictures will work best for you, and what kind of women respond well to your photos.
posted by stoneandstar at 11:59 PM on February 4, 2012
posted by stoneandstar at 11:59 PM on February 4, 2012
DON'T think of yourself as a 6/10-- it's good to be realistic, but you don't sound like you're trawling for supermodels.
I'm really uncomfortable assigning numerical scores to people, but just tonight I had drinks with a couple where the woman was WAY hotter than the guy, and I've seen the reverse plenty of times, too. The point being, attraction is a funny thing, and it would also be very easy to convince yourself that you were less attractive than you are. Focus on the person, not some internet idea of attractiveness bonus points.
-I have three friends in total and about four acquaintances, one of my friends is married and the other is dating a woman for 4 years. I have been introduced to all the women my friends know which is about 2 women in total and it didnt work out between us.
Well, there's your problem. How the hell are you going to meet and interest sexual partners if you aren't meeting and interesting acquaintances? Fix this (meaning start meeting people and, little by little, forming closer connections) and you will be in a far stronger position to meet people for a relationship. Don't stop online dating -- but do it as someone who is meeting new friends, making connections, and leading a full and interesting social life.
posted by Forktine at 12:15 AM on February 5, 2012
I'm really uncomfortable assigning numerical scores to people, but just tonight I had drinks with a couple where the woman was WAY hotter than the guy, and I've seen the reverse plenty of times, too. The point being, attraction is a funny thing, and it would also be very easy to convince yourself that you were less attractive than you are. Focus on the person, not some internet idea of attractiveness bonus points.
-I have three friends in total and about four acquaintances, one of my friends is married and the other is dating a woman for 4 years. I have been introduced to all the women my friends know which is about 2 women in total and it didnt work out between us.
Well, there's your problem. How the hell are you going to meet and interest sexual partners if you aren't meeting and interesting acquaintances? Fix this (meaning start meeting people and, little by little, forming closer connections) and you will be in a far stronger position to meet people for a relationship. Don't stop online dating -- but do it as someone who is meeting new friends, making connections, and leading a full and interesting social life.
posted by Forktine at 12:15 AM on February 5, 2012
My third friend is newly single, more about this later
Where's the more about this? Is the story about how you went to a bar with him last night and hit on a girl and today she didn't return your text meant to signal 'there is no hope of meeting women with or around him'? Because if so, yea you're giving up too easily and making excuses.
posted by jacalata at 1:12 AM on February 5, 2012
Where's the more about this? Is the story about how you went to a bar with him last night and hit on a girl and today she didn't return your text meant to signal 'there is no hope of meeting women with or around him'? Because if so, yea you're giving up too easily and making excuses.
posted by jacalata at 1:12 AM on February 5, 2012
Hey guys I appreciate the feedback so far. I'll make a few comments
1) I own a car so traveling to NYC for me is pretty easy, I drive into the city routinely and I dont think my date would mind so much then. The LIRR sucks huge
2) I know I probably came across as a very dry and drab person but I wanted to be very straight forward and cut and dry to put the information out in a clear manner. I purposely removed all emotion and made it very logical to get good answers.
3) So far I have gathered that I should do more of this:
a) go to a meetup group, try a few of them and keep going
b) try internet dating again, try different sites
c) get over my fear and approach women in bookstores and coffee shops
4) I think that up to now I like the meetup idea and the internet dating idea the best since it doesn't involve approaching people randomly. My one single friend doesn't know any women and I dont really want to pick them up at clubs or what not, its nerve racking.
5) I know that making more friends is a big important part of expanding your social circle and casting a wider net. I get that, but remember where am I supposed to me these said new guy acquaintances. I kind of run into the same problem that I do with women. I have few friends and no college or work buddies to fall back on. So it kind of boils down to meet guys at meetup events since you can't really pickup guys lol.
6) It seems to me that my best solution then just becomes
-Meeting people guys and girls at meetup type events (art class, yoga, books, what have you). If I dont meet any women there, at least I can meet some guys who I can hang with and grow my social circle I get that.
-Online Dating
7) I say that I am a 6/10 only because I dont want to imagine myself as a supermodel yeah I look better than anyone. I agree I do the best I can to take care of myself and I am going to start working out as well. But even then I think that every person should strive to be their best selves and after all is said and done, you have good hair, good clothes, you smell good, you have a decent body and you are a 7/10 suppose then thats what you are in the terms of what others find attractive. My philosophy is once you get to that point that you cant do anything to look better, then stop feeling bad for what you can't do anymore and roll with what you got.
Lastly thank you so far
posted by curious-mind at 2:18 AM on February 5, 2012
1) I own a car so traveling to NYC for me is pretty easy, I drive into the city routinely and I dont think my date would mind so much then. The LIRR sucks huge
2) I know I probably came across as a very dry and drab person but I wanted to be very straight forward and cut and dry to put the information out in a clear manner. I purposely removed all emotion and made it very logical to get good answers.
3) So far I have gathered that I should do more of this:
a) go to a meetup group, try a few of them and keep going
b) try internet dating again, try different sites
c) get over my fear and approach women in bookstores and coffee shops
4) I think that up to now I like the meetup idea and the internet dating idea the best since it doesn't involve approaching people randomly. My one single friend doesn't know any women and I dont really want to pick them up at clubs or what not, its nerve racking.
5) I know that making more friends is a big important part of expanding your social circle and casting a wider net. I get that, but remember where am I supposed to me these said new guy acquaintances. I kind of run into the same problem that I do with women. I have few friends and no college or work buddies to fall back on. So it kind of boils down to meet guys at meetup events since you can't really pickup guys lol.
6) It seems to me that my best solution then just becomes
-Meeting people guys and girls at meetup type events (art class, yoga, books, what have you). If I dont meet any women there, at least I can meet some guys who I can hang with and grow my social circle I get that.
-Online Dating
7) I say that I am a 6/10 only because I dont want to imagine myself as a supermodel yeah I look better than anyone. I agree I do the best I can to take care of myself and I am going to start working out as well. But even then I think that every person should strive to be their best selves and after all is said and done, you have good hair, good clothes, you smell good, you have a decent body and you are a 7/10 suppose then thats what you are in the terms of what others find attractive. My philosophy is once you get to that point that you cant do anything to look better, then stop feeling bad for what you can't do anymore and roll with what you got.
Lastly thank you so far
posted by curious-mind at 2:18 AM on February 5, 2012
I purposely removed all emotion and made it very logical to get good answers.
Hmm. First off, dating is emotional. You can aim for objectivity in your self-assessment, but you can never completely strip the emotion from it. And trying to approach dating from a purely logical standpoint can be counterproductive, since people and the relations between them often don't have much logic to them, and it will drive you mad trying to figure out how to stuff that all into a system.
Second: are you one of those hyperlogical-type dudes? I met a few of those guys when I was dating, and more often than not they made me feel straight-up bad. I couldn't express any sort of offhand opinion or emotion around them, because they'd try and open up a discussion about whatever I just said, and I always felt put on the spot. I shouldn't have to win an argument to be able to say what's on my mind. It was as if they were deliberately trying not to relate to me. There were also the hyperlogical guys who would say something hurtful or misogynistic, but find nothing wrong with it because their thoughts were "logically" correct. Maybe you're not one of those people, or maybe you are and you will find your debate-team soulmate, but if you see yourself in this paragraph, work on cultivating patience and empathy for your friends and dates.
Okay. That said, on to the rest.
Online dating is generally my first suggestion, because it's low-risk: you don't have to go anywhere, and you already know everyone there is looking. But you do need to present yourself well online. That includes not only taking good pictures, but writing well. Your question is really long and grammatically kinda shaky; you even have several run-on sentences. (Not just the long-but-grammatically-correct sentences people mistake for run-ons, but real honest-to-goodness ones.) If you put a sloppily-written profile up on a dating site, it's like showing up for a date in a stained T-shirt. Write informally, but write well and succinctly. Trawl through previous online dating AskMes; they have good and generally-universal advice on how to present yourself on a dating site.
I also nth continuing to go to meetups and pursuing activities you enjoy, not necessarily to meet women, but because you enjoy the meetups/activities in themselves. If you go to yoga classes just to meet women, you quickly become Creepy Yoga Guy. We look for partners who have healthy social lives and interests, because they're interesting and less likely to be relying on a relationship to complete them. In addition to that, despite what icky PUA manuals imply, there isn't a whole ton of difference between meeting platonic friends and meeting romantic partners. Making friends is excellent practice for meeting women, and a lot of times it's even harder because you can't really friend-ask someone out.
Finally, and I'm guessing the answer will be no, can you cut down your hours at work? I recognize that, in a lot of fields, 60-hour workweeks are inevitable. But unless you're really into your job, have your sights on a top-level position, or plan on scaling back as soon as you can, it's going to turn people off. Nobody wants to take a back seat to a job their partner doesn't even particularly like.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:03 AM on February 5, 2012
Hmm. First off, dating is emotional. You can aim for objectivity in your self-assessment, but you can never completely strip the emotion from it. And trying to approach dating from a purely logical standpoint can be counterproductive, since people and the relations between them often don't have much logic to them, and it will drive you mad trying to figure out how to stuff that all into a system.
Second: are you one of those hyperlogical-type dudes? I met a few of those guys when I was dating, and more often than not they made me feel straight-up bad. I couldn't express any sort of offhand opinion or emotion around them, because they'd try and open up a discussion about whatever I just said, and I always felt put on the spot. I shouldn't have to win an argument to be able to say what's on my mind. It was as if they were deliberately trying not to relate to me. There were also the hyperlogical guys who would say something hurtful or misogynistic, but find nothing wrong with it because their thoughts were "logically" correct. Maybe you're not one of those people, or maybe you are and you will find your debate-team soulmate, but if you see yourself in this paragraph, work on cultivating patience and empathy for your friends and dates.
Okay. That said, on to the rest.
Online dating is generally my first suggestion, because it's low-risk: you don't have to go anywhere, and you already know everyone there is looking. But you do need to present yourself well online. That includes not only taking good pictures, but writing well. Your question is really long and grammatically kinda shaky; you even have several run-on sentences. (Not just the long-but-grammatically-correct sentences people mistake for run-ons, but real honest-to-goodness ones.) If you put a sloppily-written profile up on a dating site, it's like showing up for a date in a stained T-shirt. Write informally, but write well and succinctly. Trawl through previous online dating AskMes; they have good and generally-universal advice on how to present yourself on a dating site.
I also nth continuing to go to meetups and pursuing activities you enjoy, not necessarily to meet women, but because you enjoy the meetups/activities in themselves. If you go to yoga classes just to meet women, you quickly become Creepy Yoga Guy. We look for partners who have healthy social lives and interests, because they're interesting and less likely to be relying on a relationship to complete them. In addition to that, despite what icky PUA manuals imply, there isn't a whole ton of difference between meeting platonic friends and meeting romantic partners. Making friends is excellent practice for meeting women, and a lot of times it's even harder because you can't really friend-ask someone out.
Finally, and I'm guessing the answer will be no, can you cut down your hours at work? I recognize that, in a lot of fields, 60-hour workweeks are inevitable. But unless you're really into your job, have your sights on a top-level position, or plan on scaling back as soon as you can, it's going to turn people off. Nobody wants to take a back seat to a job their partner doesn't even particularly like.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:03 AM on February 5, 2012
Please please tell me you didn't actually text this to the girl from the bar: "I was not looking for sex, I want to get to know her better and like to take her out."
That immediately comes off as creepy. If youre not looking for sex only, the girl will realize it when you guys hang out, you never need to say those words to a girl.
I don't have much advice for you, other than: if you do give online dating anoth shot, make sure you mention that you're in the city often for work, drinks, friends, etc (exaggerate!). I would normally rule a guy out for distance, unless there was a reason he was in my area a lot to begin with, or I in his, to make meeting up at first easier and more casual.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 6:27 AM on February 5, 2012
That immediately comes off as creepy. If youre not looking for sex only, the girl will realize it when you guys hang out, you never need to say those words to a girl.
I don't have much advice for you, other than: if you do give online dating anoth shot, make sure you mention that you're in the city often for work, drinks, friends, etc (exaggerate!). I would normally rule a guy out for distance, unless there was a reason he was in my area a lot to begin with, or I in his, to make meeting up at first easier and more casual.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 6:27 AM on February 5, 2012
I'm in your target demographic, and I'm sorry, but I would not date a guy who lives on Long Island sight unseen. It's nothing against Long Islanders, it's the fact that you would end up staying at my apartment all the time, or worse, eventually pressuring me to commute to yours.
If you already have such an easy commute to the city, I really would suggest exploring moving to the city and doing a reverse commute to work.
posted by telegraph at 6:52 AM on February 5, 2012
If you already have such an easy commute to the city, I really would suggest exploring moving to the city and doing a reverse commute to work.
posted by telegraph at 6:52 AM on February 5, 2012
You keep using words like "strategy." I get it. You're a career-driven guy, it's in your nature to come up with a strategy to meet and date as many women as possible in the most efficient way possible. You don't want to waste your time.
Here's the thing: a lot of dating is wasting time, and it's not as bad a thing as you make it out to be.
I don't want to make a generalization here, but you're looking for something a little offbeat - you want a relationship, not just sex, but you're not looking for a soulmate, you just want to date a lot. For most people, the purpose of dating, as in, being in a relationship, is a means to an end; you're looking for someone you could spend your life with, and dating is the process by which you figure out with whom. You summed up your belief about dating very succinctly: you think that everyone you date, save one special person who may or may not be in your future, is dirt. Dirt. You said it, and I think you believe it. Cut that shit out now.
The fact that you're looking for something offbeat means that you're going to have a harder time finding a women who wants that from you. Your best quality, from what I gather from your tl;dr question, is that you are career-driven and successful. Women (often) love that! You can find plenty of women who want to casually date and/or hook up with a successful guy because you are a meal ticket, and there are also plenty of women who see your success and think "marriage material." If you don't want the former and you don't want the latter... you're going to come up short.
You absolutely have to disconnect dating with being happy or fulfilled. It sounds like having a girlfriend is something you want to check off a list, like you are frustrated that you've followed all the instructions in the manual and it's still not happening. It might have worked that way in your frat, and it might work that way at your job, but it doesn't work that way with the rest of your life.
Are you always and forever going to work 60-hour weeks? Because frankly, now seems like a great time to stop trying to tie dating into your time-efficiency model. Work your 60 hours, and use your free time to pursue things you enjoy... which you do not mention at all as above. I have no clue what you enjoy. If you don't enjoy anything, pick up a hobby. Spend your spare time enjoying it. Become a person whose work does not define him and whose quest for efficiency does not consume him. Think about dating later, in a few years. You have plenty of time.
posted by juniperesque at 7:19 AM on February 5, 2012
Here's the thing: a lot of dating is wasting time, and it's not as bad a thing as you make it out to be.
I don't want to make a generalization here, but you're looking for something a little offbeat - you want a relationship, not just sex, but you're not looking for a soulmate, you just want to date a lot. For most people, the purpose of dating, as in, being in a relationship, is a means to an end; you're looking for someone you could spend your life with, and dating is the process by which you figure out with whom. You summed up your belief about dating very succinctly: you think that everyone you date, save one special person who may or may not be in your future, is dirt. Dirt. You said it, and I think you believe it. Cut that shit out now.
The fact that you're looking for something offbeat means that you're going to have a harder time finding a women who wants that from you. Your best quality, from what I gather from your tl;dr question, is that you are career-driven and successful. Women (often) love that! You can find plenty of women who want to casually date and/or hook up with a successful guy because you are a meal ticket, and there are also plenty of women who see your success and think "marriage material." If you don't want the former and you don't want the latter... you're going to come up short.
You absolutely have to disconnect dating with being happy or fulfilled. It sounds like having a girlfriend is something you want to check off a list, like you are frustrated that you've followed all the instructions in the manual and it's still not happening. It might have worked that way in your frat, and it might work that way at your job, but it doesn't work that way with the rest of your life.
Are you always and forever going to work 60-hour weeks? Because frankly, now seems like a great time to stop trying to tie dating into your time-efficiency model. Work your 60 hours, and use your free time to pursue things you enjoy... which you do not mention at all as above. I have no clue what you enjoy. If you don't enjoy anything, pick up a hobby. Spend your spare time enjoying it. Become a person whose work does not define him and whose quest for efficiency does not consume him. Think about dating later, in a few years. You have plenty of time.
posted by juniperesque at 7:19 AM on February 5, 2012
You're me at 25. I'm so, so sorry. The risks aren't any lower online and it doesn't get better offline.
Your good intentions are entirely irrelevant here. Despite your best efforts, many women are going to misinterpret your most benevolent and sincere statements and leave you without hope of appeal. This could be on account of specific words you use, the way you construct sentences, the combined resonance of a certain number of words or sentences, the look on your face when you said any one or any number of the words or sentences, the look on your face in a photo on a social media site that came to mind at the time you said any one or any number of the words or sentences, and on, and on, and on.
Everything in dating depends on what women take you to be, how accepting they are of human particularity ("quirks"), what they tell their friends about you, how much influence these friends have over their decisions, and on, and on, and on.
You might not be "one of those hyperlogical-type dudes" in the least, but there's absolutely nothing to stop a woman from suspecting you are, processing the suspicion as a fact, and treating you as any one of the hyperlogical-type dudes from whose behavior her beautifully self-protective and self-interested brain began to construct the type. It only takes one plausible and pernicious misinterpretation to ruin a gleaming reputation -- and because social identity is a matter of interpretation, you don't get a say in the matter.
Nor is this tyranny of interpretation at all limited to women, or to dating.
My advice is to (figuratively) beat the crap out of your own typological suppositions about human identity, behavior, and ideals and (literally) talk to the people you're talking to and listen to the people you're listening to.
posted by blockquote at 7:36 AM on February 5, 2012
Your good intentions are entirely irrelevant here. Despite your best efforts, many women are going to misinterpret your most benevolent and sincere statements and leave you without hope of appeal. This could be on account of specific words you use, the way you construct sentences, the combined resonance of a certain number of words or sentences, the look on your face when you said any one or any number of the words or sentences, the look on your face in a photo on a social media site that came to mind at the time you said any one or any number of the words or sentences, and on, and on, and on.
Everything in dating depends on what women take you to be, how accepting they are of human particularity ("quirks"), what they tell their friends about you, how much influence these friends have over their decisions, and on, and on, and on.
You might not be "one of those hyperlogical-type dudes" in the least, but there's absolutely nothing to stop a woman from suspecting you are, processing the suspicion as a fact, and treating you as any one of the hyperlogical-type dudes from whose behavior her beautifully self-protective and self-interested brain began to construct the type. It only takes one plausible and pernicious misinterpretation to ruin a gleaming reputation -- and because social identity is a matter of interpretation, you don't get a say in the matter.
Nor is this tyranny of interpretation at all limited to women, or to dating.
My advice is to (figuratively) beat the crap out of your own typological suppositions about human identity, behavior, and ideals and (literally) talk to the people you're talking to and listen to the people you're listening to.
posted by blockquote at 7:36 AM on February 5, 2012
Ok, this is not scientific, but it is tested as it's how I met my husband;) I think the strategy is to prioritize and the first priority should be places where you meet single women in person. Why? Because you know every woman you meet at the event will be available And in person you can much more quickly figure out who you are not interested in. So the types of events you are looking for are single volunteering, speed dating, singles dinners etc. I assume NYC has lots of these types of things (D.C. Did back in my day), but if not you could always just start a meetup for single men and women in their twenties (I know you don't have a lot of time, but really suggesting that everyone in your meetup go on a hike or volunteer some Saturday won't take a lot of time.
If you still have time, your second priority should be online dating. Again every woman you come in contact will be your age and single. So I think it's better than doing events where not everybody's single or the right age. It's not as good as singles events because it takes longer to identify women you have no interest in which can be done in 5 minutes in person.
If you still have time left over (probably you won't) then try things where young attractive women might hang out. I'm thinking running, hiking or volunteering clubs or church or synagogue twenties groups if you are in to that.
I have some friends who married guys they met in bars, but I would make that a last priority. It's hard to find a real relationship in a bar.
posted by bananafish at 7:51 AM on February 5, 2012
If you still have time, your second priority should be online dating. Again every woman you come in contact will be your age and single. So I think it's better than doing events where not everybody's single or the right age. It's not as good as singles events because it takes longer to identify women you have no interest in which can be done in 5 minutes in person.
If you still have time left over (probably you won't) then try things where young attractive women might hang out. I'm thinking running, hiking or volunteering clubs or church or synagogue twenties groups if you are in to that.
I have some friends who married guys they met in bars, but I would make that a last priority. It's hard to find a real relationship in a bar.
posted by bananafish at 7:51 AM on February 5, 2012
Even with a car, LI is going to be a deal breaker for most women.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:11 AM on February 5, 2012
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:11 AM on February 5, 2012
This is just me(as a female,) but I don't like the idea of someone driving way out of their way to meet me for a blind date or to regularly date after. It would be different if I already knew you and you happened to live far away. Even if you're fine with it, I'm not comfortable with starting something from scratch that is long distance. It would pretty much have to be love at first sight and that is certainly not guaranteed with online dating.
It makes me nervous because I feel a bit more pressure when someone drives from far away to meet me. I prefer to meet someone for a drink or cup of coffee and wouldn't feel right about suggesting that to someone who is commuting in to see me.
posted by fromageball at 8:36 AM on February 5, 2012
It makes me nervous because I feel a bit more pressure when someone drives from far away to meet me. I prefer to meet someone for a drink or cup of coffee and wouldn't feel right about suggesting that to someone who is commuting in to see me.
posted by fromageball at 8:36 AM on February 5, 2012
I tried online dating once. It was fun and I got a few acquaintances out of it. But getting out and involved on a community works better for me for finding both friends and lovers. We are doing something together , we have something to bond over. This is the common thread running through that list you gave. And this is why hobbies and volunteering are such great approaches.
posted by aniola at 8:51 AM on February 5, 2012
posted by aniola at 8:51 AM on February 5, 2012
In the past, when I was a single girl, the type of person I was interested in was the type of person who was interested in things and did things. Working 60 hour weeks is pretty bad (and would be a deal-breaker for me, but I'm not everyone) but much better if you are utterly enthused about what you do! Though of course not to the point of banging on about it for hours. It's incredibly attractive to have something you're enthusiastic and/or competent at. This doesn't have to be something the other person is massively into.
Therefore my suggestion would be that you take your hobbies (which you have, right?) and find ways to meet people through those. If that's not possible, choose a new hobby that you can do in a group (martial arts, creative writing classes, chess clubs, bridge groups, whatever excites you). I would say that doing something regularly for a prolonged period of time is more likely to lead to friendships and dates than going to random meetup events, but maybe that's different in America.
Incidentally, while I adore yoga, I do not wish to talk while I am at a yoga class and have never made a friend there. I would run a mile from a guy who asked me out at a yoga class and then I would be very uncomfortable being near him in class afterwards.
posted by kadia_a at 9:02 AM on February 5, 2012
Therefore my suggestion would be that you take your hobbies (which you have, right?) and find ways to meet people through those. If that's not possible, choose a new hobby that you can do in a group (martial arts, creative writing classes, chess clubs, bridge groups, whatever excites you). I would say that doing something regularly for a prolonged period of time is more likely to lead to friendships and dates than going to random meetup events, but maybe that's different in America.
Incidentally, while I adore yoga, I do not wish to talk while I am at a yoga class and have never made a friend there. I would run a mile from a guy who asked me out at a yoga class and then I would be very uncomfortable being near him in class afterwards.
posted by kadia_a at 9:02 AM on February 5, 2012
I know someone who used Table for Six while living out west - he didn't meet anyone super special, but he did learn more about what he was looking for, gain some confidence, etc. He was traveling and moving a lot for work, so had little time/opportunity to meet people. The dinner format was nice, the fact that it was 5 other professionals gave them common ground, and he enjoyed going out even if there wasn't a romantic connection. I don't know if there are matchmaker programs like this where you are, but it would be worth looking around for one.
posted by hms71 at 9:47 AM on February 5, 2012
posted by hms71 at 9:47 AM on February 5, 2012
What do you actually like to do? Like, for fun? What's fun for you? You've given us about three pages explaining in meticulous detail what sort of relationship you want and what you don't like about dating and why certain things won't work for you, but you've told us virtually nothing about yourself. So, what are you really into?
posted by decathecting at 9:54 AM on February 5, 2012
posted by decathecting at 9:54 AM on February 5, 2012
As anecdata: I met my partner of many years on an online dating website. He is also an introvert; the things that truly made him special shone more through correspondence than an awkward imaginary encounter at a bar (neither of us really go to bars) or somewhere else.
If you can hone your written communication skills so as to read as warm, friendly, and an effective writer, online dating might be the right way to go. As of now there is something a little off-putting about your writing. It may simply be the occasionally haphazard punctuation. You asked for concrete things to do: practice letter-writing?
posted by arnicae at 10:06 AM on February 5, 2012
If you can hone your written communication skills so as to read as warm, friendly, and an effective writer, online dating might be the right way to go. As of now there is something a little off-putting about your writing. It may simply be the occasionally haphazard punctuation. You asked for concrete things to do: practice letter-writing?
posted by arnicae at 10:06 AM on February 5, 2012
Just chiming in here on the location issue. I also would really hesitate to date a guy out on Long Island and I am originally FROM Long Island. So the hesitation from girls who aren't even familiar with Long Island is going to be very very strong.
posted by lovelygirl at 10:14 AM on February 5, 2012
posted by lovelygirl at 10:14 AM on February 5, 2012
Thanks again guys for you input.
1) I would like somebody to spend a long time with, its just that I know its a lot better to keep those expectations at bay. Dirt was just a metaphor , I think people are reading too much into what I'm writing and it got lost in translation. Dates are not dirt, nor are women or anything of that sort. I would like to find a woman I can date long term and see what comes out of it.
2) If I do make an online profile, I'll have somebody re-read it and make sure I'm coming across as a fun, warm, loving guy.
3) I notice how some women suggested that "go to events that you like to do" and threw out a list of events (bridge, chess etc.) but then went on to say that "don't approach me at yoga I wont even stand next to you" yet another woman said "yeah approaching me nicely in a bookstore would be fine."
I think that if I start going out to events I'll talk to women I find attractive in a slow easy going manner and if they don't happen to like it tough luck, some will like it and some won't.
How am I supposed to know before hand its okay to talk to THIS woman at a yoga class but not this woman, she isnt exactly wearing a sign saying "yoga is no good, I'm too self conscience or w.e"
4) I'm not too worried about meeting a specific woman's standards since all people are different, I'm just looking for a woman that connects with me. Neither am I worried about women chasing after money or status since its easy to tell them apart from the rest.
5) I like Classic Rock, I have been playing the electric guitar for about 6 years now, pretty damn good too if I may say. I love hiking and I took a survival course in college so I love camping and roughing it out. I'm pretty good at chess, I enjoy talking about politics more than I enjoy sports. I enjoy going to museums and the occasional dive bar in the city. Tourist traps I've done them all the statue of liberty, empire state, etc.. and would like taking a woman if she's never been there.
6) 60 hour work week is a requirement, I work in Financial services and times are tough so you have to keep your head down to keep your job. I'm hoping in a few years to leverage my experience to move to a higher position. I think women stating the hours as an issue are looking at it objectively before the fact of falling for someone.
7) I had a GF that lived in Staten Island and I lived in Queens at the time, we dated for 1.5 years and we loved each other a lot, I drove out to her once a week. She understood and was grateful and we made it work. So again I'm not too worried about the distance and if staying over is going to be a problem then it probably wont work anyway. But I understand that this may be an issue when using online dating since you can see where the person is from in their profile. I guess I can shorten my search to just LI when I make my profile
The best idea I've gotten so far is attending events termed "single" that have an activity or hobby attached to it. That makes sense at least you know the people there are single and looking better than a Meetup group that attracts non-single people.
Maybe I'll try a paid online dating website and stay away from the free ones like OKC
posted by curious-mind at 11:13 AM on February 5, 2012
1) I would like somebody to spend a long time with, its just that I know its a lot better to keep those expectations at bay. Dirt was just a metaphor , I think people are reading too much into what I'm writing and it got lost in translation. Dates are not dirt, nor are women or anything of that sort. I would like to find a woman I can date long term and see what comes out of it.
2) If I do make an online profile, I'll have somebody re-read it and make sure I'm coming across as a fun, warm, loving guy.
3) I notice how some women suggested that "go to events that you like to do" and threw out a list of events (bridge, chess etc.) but then went on to say that "don't approach me at yoga I wont even stand next to you" yet another woman said "yeah approaching me nicely in a bookstore would be fine."
I think that if I start going out to events I'll talk to women I find attractive in a slow easy going manner and if they don't happen to like it tough luck, some will like it and some won't.
How am I supposed to know before hand its okay to talk to THIS woman at a yoga class but not this woman, she isnt exactly wearing a sign saying "yoga is no good, I'm too self conscience or w.e"
4) I'm not too worried about meeting a specific woman's standards since all people are different, I'm just looking for a woman that connects with me. Neither am I worried about women chasing after money or status since its easy to tell them apart from the rest.
5) I like Classic Rock, I have been playing the electric guitar for about 6 years now, pretty damn good too if I may say. I love hiking and I took a survival course in college so I love camping and roughing it out. I'm pretty good at chess, I enjoy talking about politics more than I enjoy sports. I enjoy going to museums and the occasional dive bar in the city. Tourist traps I've done them all the statue of liberty, empire state, etc.. and would like taking a woman if she's never been there.
6) 60 hour work week is a requirement, I work in Financial services and times are tough so you have to keep your head down to keep your job. I'm hoping in a few years to leverage my experience to move to a higher position. I think women stating the hours as an issue are looking at it objectively before the fact of falling for someone.
7) I had a GF that lived in Staten Island and I lived in Queens at the time, we dated for 1.5 years and we loved each other a lot, I drove out to her once a week. She understood and was grateful and we made it work. So again I'm not too worried about the distance and if staying over is going to be a problem then it probably wont work anyway. But I understand that this may be an issue when using online dating since you can see where the person is from in their profile. I guess I can shorten my search to just LI when I make my profile
The best idea I've gotten so far is attending events termed "single" that have an activity or hobby attached to it. That makes sense at least you know the people there are single and looking better than a Meetup group that attracts non-single people.
Maybe I'll try a paid online dating website and stay away from the free ones like OKC
posted by curious-mind at 11:13 AM on February 5, 2012
Btw I didn't text her ""I was not looking for sex, I want to get to know her better and like to take her out."
People have got to give me more credit, I'm not THAT stupid :)
posted by curious-mind at 11:17 AM on February 5, 2012
People have got to give me more credit, I'm not THAT stupid :)
posted by curious-mind at 11:17 AM on February 5, 2012
Look guys I know I have to date lots of people, or at least ask a few times. I dont consider it a waste of time, even if it doesnt work out.
What is a waste of time is standing around in a bar and being too scared to talk to a girl most of the time and going home disappointed.
To me asking a person out in a comfortable manner is a win, because you cant control how other people react you know you did your part.
So I was just looking for a place that would put me in front of the most women, in the least anxiety producing manner giving me the chance to ask her out.
Thats why I was so methodical because I have a few restrictions on me, time, social circle etc.
posted by curious-mind at 11:22 AM on February 5, 2012
What is a waste of time is standing around in a bar and being too scared to talk to a girl most of the time and going home disappointed.
To me asking a person out in a comfortable manner is a win, because you cant control how other people react you know you did your part.
So I was just looking for a place that would put me in front of the most women, in the least anxiety producing manner giving me the chance to ask her out.
Thats why I was so methodical because I have a few restrictions on me, time, social circle etc.
posted by curious-mind at 11:22 AM on February 5, 2012
I usually don't comment in these relationship threads because my EQ isn't so high, but I just wanted to point out something I'm getting from your comments, which is that you keep talking about "women", "women", "women", "girls", "girls", etc; and it's coming across like they are some object that you are supposed to earn, like a game you want to win or transaction you want to complete.
Women are people too, just like you and me (a guy), and I hope you're looking for a person that you can connect with emotionally and LOVE (that's what most people want, no?) not an object to be won or attained.
I would like you to go read the comment by cairdeas that is getting a lot of favorites in an earlier thread about what romance is, and think hard about if this is something you really want to feel for another human being. Are you ready for the emotional roller coaster of romance? Are you ready to open up a whole new real in the emotional experience of your life? Or are you just doing this because you feel like it's the next step in a life that's been planned out for you? If you decide that you are ready, I can bet you that investing some emotion into the process will pay off big dividends in terms of what you learn about yourself and your relationships with others; you'll come off as more genuine to other people, and hey you might even meet somebody that you really connect with and who appreciates the person that you are. And I think was the point of your question, right?
posted by msittig at 11:41 AM on February 5, 2012
Women are people too, just like you and me (a guy), and I hope you're looking for a person that you can connect with emotionally and LOVE (that's what most people want, no?) not an object to be won or attained.
I would like you to go read the comment by cairdeas that is getting a lot of favorites in an earlier thread about what romance is, and think hard about if this is something you really want to feel for another human being. Are you ready for the emotional roller coaster of romance? Are you ready to open up a whole new real in the emotional experience of your life? Or are you just doing this because you feel like it's the next step in a life that's been planned out for you? If you decide that you are ready, I can bet you that investing some emotion into the process will pay off big dividends in terms of what you learn about yourself and your relationships with others; you'll come off as more genuine to other people, and hey you might even meet somebody that you really connect with and who appreciates the person that you are. And I think was the point of your question, right?
posted by msittig at 11:41 AM on February 5, 2012
i'm going to repeat my suggestion that you try to talk to one stranger, especially someone you aren't romantically drawn to (start with men!), once a week leading up to once a day. your social anxiety is going to come through when you talk to women. it will be a stumbling block. if you get better at just talking to strangers, those skills will transfer to your dating world.
i will also back up the people who have said it - yoga class is a bad place to meet women. i would be careful with this attitude: I think that if I start going out to events I'll talk to women I find attractive in a slow easy going manner and if they don't happen to like it tough luck. please keep in mind that attractive women are hit on a lot and if you pick the wrong moments to do it, it might come off as frightening. having empathy for the people you're talking to will go a long way. look at them as people first and potential dates second.
posted by nadawi at 11:53 AM on February 5, 2012
i will also back up the people who have said it - yoga class is a bad place to meet women. i would be careful with this attitude: I think that if I start going out to events I'll talk to women I find attractive in a slow easy going manner and if they don't happen to like it tough luck. please keep in mind that attractive women are hit on a lot and if you pick the wrong moments to do it, it might come off as frightening. having empathy for the people you're talking to will go a long way. look at them as people first and potential dates second.
posted by nadawi at 11:53 AM on February 5, 2012
^ yes to the above poster I know what romance is I've loved and lost and suffered and understand it all (I've had three relationships in my life), please people stop reading between the lines and just give me some good ideas that I can believe in.
I wanted to mention that the reason why I haven't done Meetup groups or even things like singles events, singles hiking, speed dating has to do with feeling like a loser.
I feel like a loser that I havent been able to meet a person through the traditional way most people do friends, family, work.
I see so many couples walking downtown and I feel bad that they were able to do the right things to meet each other.
I really would feel like a loser if I went to a speed dating event or a meetup group.
Thats something I need help getting over since it seems its one of the options left
posted by curious-mind at 11:58 AM on February 5, 2012
I wanted to mention that the reason why I haven't done Meetup groups or even things like singles events, singles hiking, speed dating has to do with feeling like a loser.
I feel like a loser that I havent been able to meet a person through the traditional way most people do friends, family, work.
I see so many couples walking downtown and I feel bad that they were able to do the right things to meet each other.
I really would feel like a loser if I went to a speed dating event or a meetup group.
Thats something I need help getting over since it seems its one of the options left
posted by curious-mind at 11:58 AM on February 5, 2012
re: your last comment....no, no, no, no! Your strategy needs to include getting positive. Loads of people are single, not everyone that looks happy IS happy, my aunt didn't meet the right guy until she was in her late 40's... I know you didn't want people to advise you to love your life and it will happen... but I think that's maybe relevant.
Finally- I personally want a guy that cherishes me, thinks I'm really special and that really makes me laugh- and you don't sound like you have much of a sense of humour, so perhaps take ladies you ask out to a comedy club or something so that the job of being witty and hilarious isn't all on your shoulders.
posted by misspony at 12:08 PM on February 5, 2012
Finally- I personally want a guy that cherishes me, thinks I'm really special and that really makes me laugh- and you don't sound like you have much of a sense of humour, so perhaps take ladies you ask out to a comedy club or something so that the job of being witty and hilarious isn't all on your shoulders.
posted by misspony at 12:08 PM on February 5, 2012
OK, but see, you don't know that. How do you know the couples walking downtown didn't meet at a singles event, or online, or drunk off their respective asses at a dive bar, or an arranged marriage, or just settling for each other because neither saw a better option? And how do you know things at home aren't chilly, or tense, or one constant argument, or worse? How do you know they're not bearding for each other? How do you know they're not secretly platonic friends who like screwing with people in public? You don't, and it's very easy to get caught in the trap of assuming everyone else is doing things phenomenally perfect in a way that you aren't.
And if you say you'd feel like a loser going to something like that... it sorta sounds like you already feel that way, so nothing's changing all that much, y'know? And everyone going there is pretty much going there for the same reasons. I'd caution against expecting TOO much from these things - it's all about the crowd, and it's all random - but still.
posted by dekathelon at 12:14 PM on February 5, 2012
And if you say you'd feel like a loser going to something like that... it sorta sounds like you already feel that way, so nothing's changing all that much, y'know? And everyone going there is pretty much going there for the same reasons. I'd caution against expecting TOO much from these things - it's all about the crowd, and it's all random - but still.
posted by dekathelon at 12:14 PM on February 5, 2012
And because all of those are hypothetical, here's something that's not: My first boyfriend and I were totally one of those couples walking around downtown. It's plausible we were one of the ones you're talking about, even. Everything probably looked disgustingly perfect. Two days later, we broke up. You cannot assume anything.
posted by dekathelon at 12:20 PM on February 5, 2012
posted by dekathelon at 12:20 PM on February 5, 2012
I am also NOT looking for my soul mate and true love, just dates with women. Its my approach that it takes a few dates to see if there is anything between two people that can be classified as special.
It's hard for me to understand how this would work, actually. Why would someone date you exclusively and seriously if you're planning to just test drive a bunch of them and just come back to the one you like best? It sounds like you're looking for a pseudo-serious relationship where you can kind of "practice." Does that mean that you're trying to trick the woman into believing you're in a serious relationship when you already know you're going to end it so you can test out all the rest?
Because in that scenario, you'd be dating women without full emotional engagement and availability. And those don't seem like good relationship experiences that are fulfilling.
I think soul mates and true love comes after you've put yourself out there, dated a few times and sifted through the dirt and find the gold left behind.
If that's what you believe will happen to you, okay, there's no arguing about it. But sometimes it's really not something you can control, even if you have a belief system set up around it.
Personally, I don't see the point of wasting your time. Picking up women at bars, etc., for relationships---well, you might not get the best set of choices there.
You should get involved in some kind of fun coed intramural athletic league or go to your alma mater's alumni club (like if it's a designated bar---not just some random bar) for sporting events, or take some kind of art class on the weekends or join a running club.
I think you'll probably find some dateable women if you just concentrate on taking up activities you enjoy, and that way you'll end up choosing to date women who aren't just awesome when they're drunk.
And you might gaze into someone's beautiful eyes and smack fall into love. Romance!
And treat these women the way you would want to be treated. If you don't want to be serious with one of them that is taking it seriously and believing that it's going somewhere because you seem serious even though you're practicing, be truthful about it. Say you're only 25 and you don't want to get very serious. Just remember to be ethical.
posted by anniecat at 12:47 PM on February 5, 2012
It's hard for me to understand how this would work, actually. Why would someone date you exclusively and seriously if you're planning to just test drive a bunch of them and just come back to the one you like best? It sounds like you're looking for a pseudo-serious relationship where you can kind of "practice." Does that mean that you're trying to trick the woman into believing you're in a serious relationship when you already know you're going to end it so you can test out all the rest?
Because in that scenario, you'd be dating women without full emotional engagement and availability. And those don't seem like good relationship experiences that are fulfilling.
I think soul mates and true love comes after you've put yourself out there, dated a few times and sifted through the dirt and find the gold left behind.
If that's what you believe will happen to you, okay, there's no arguing about it. But sometimes it's really not something you can control, even if you have a belief system set up around it.
Personally, I don't see the point of wasting your time. Picking up women at bars, etc., for relationships---well, you might not get the best set of choices there.
You should get involved in some kind of fun coed intramural athletic league or go to your alma mater's alumni club (like if it's a designated bar---not just some random bar) for sporting events, or take some kind of art class on the weekends or join a running club.
I think you'll probably find some dateable women if you just concentrate on taking up activities you enjoy, and that way you'll end up choosing to date women who aren't just awesome when they're drunk.
And you might gaze into someone's beautiful eyes and smack fall into love. Romance!
And treat these women the way you would want to be treated. If you don't want to be serious with one of them that is taking it seriously and believing that it's going somewhere because you seem serious even though you're practicing, be truthful about it. Say you're only 25 and you don't want to get very serious. Just remember to be ethical.
posted by anniecat at 12:47 PM on February 5, 2012
Oy gevalt.
1) I would like somebody to spend a long time with, its just that I know its a lot better to keep those expectations at bay. Dirt was just a metaphor , I think people are reading too much into what I'm writing and it got lost in translation. Dates are not dirt, nor are women or anything of that sort. I would like to find a woman I can date long term and see what comes out of it.
No, you don't know. It's clear that you don't. Going into meeting people with the expectation that they are not worthwhile or with long-term potential is part of why your attitude is so damaging. I don't think people are reading too much into what you're writing and it's getting lost in translation, because you've emphasized here that you tried to take emotion out of your questions and focus on logic. Well, your logic is showing. We're not reading too much into what you're writing, we're reading right through you.
2) If I do make an online profile, I'll have somebody re-read it and make sure I'm coming across as a fun, warm, loving guy.
This is good. You can ask several people re-read it, the more the better. Of course, if you're not warm or fun, it's just going to be a lie, so I'd work on that.
3) I notice how some women suggested that "go to events that you like to do" and threw out a list of events (bridge, chess etc.) but then went on to say that "don't approach me at yoga I wont even stand next to you" yet another woman said "yeah approaching me nicely in a bookstore would be fine."
I think that if I start going out to events I'll talk to women I find attractive in a slow easy going manner and if they don't happen to like it tough luck, some will like it and some won't.
How am I supposed to know before hand its okay to talk to THIS woman at a yoga class but not this woman, she isnt exactly wearing a sign saying "yoga is no good, I'm too self conscience or w.e"
It sounds like you have a hard time reading unspoken cues and body language. Many women who practice yoga do it for reasons other than being social, and if you can't tell the difference between those who want to talk and whose who don't, I'm not sure anyone can help you. Women who don't want to talk avert their eyes, give one-word answers to queries, etc. They act uninterested.
4) I'm not too worried about meeting a specific woman's standards since all people are different, I'm just looking for a woman that connects with me. Neither am I worried about women chasing after money or status since its easy to tell them apart from the rest.
You should worry about meeting womens' standards in a general sense, but fortunately that's not hard. Just being a good person about covers it, at a minimum. But no, you can't tell women who want your money from women who don't on a first, second, or third date. You aren't going to be able to tell until you meet them, get to know them, and start to understand their values. That takes time.
5) I like Classic Rock, I have been playing the electric guitar for about 6 years now, pretty damn good too if I may say. I love hiking and I took a survival course in college so I love camping and roughing it out. I'm pretty good at chess, I enjoy talking about politics more than I enjoy sports. I enjoy going to museums and the occasional dive bar in the city. Tourist traps I've done them all the statue of liberty, empire state, etc.. and would like taking a woman if she's never been there.
If you play the guitar alone, you're not leveraging this very cool trait. If you like hiking, there are tons of groups in New York that hike, travel, camp, etc. This is a great place to meet people who have something in common with you and a great opportunity to weed out people who find it distasteful. Chess may not be the best place to meet women unless you'd like to start things off competitively. Everyone says they like museums and dive bars, especially in their online dating profiles, so that doesn't really say anything about you at all. Playing tourist will only play to your weakness, that you live in Long Island. I'd try and capitalize on the hiking/outdoorsy stuff. As an added bonus, even if you meet people who live in the city, your living out in Long Island isn't going to mean as much, because they have to get out of the city anyway to do what they enjoy.
6) 60 hour work week is a requirement, I work in Financial services and times are tough so you have to keep your head down to keep your job. I'm hoping in a few years to leverage my experience to move to a higher position. I think women stating the hours as an issue are looking at it objectively before the fact of falling for someone.
Yes, just like any woman you first meet will. Take our advice.
7) I had a GF that lived in Staten Island and I lived in Queens at the time, we dated for 1.5 years and we loved each other a lot, I drove out to her once a week. She understood and was grateful and we made it work. So again I'm not too worried about the distance and if staying over is going to be a problem then it probably wont work anyway. But I understand that this may be an issue when using online dating since you can see where the person is from in their profile. I guess I can shorten my search to just LI when I make my profile
Your previous girlfriends, their preferences, and the schedule of your relationships with them are irrelevant. Red herring.
The best idea I've gotten so far is attending events termed "single" that have an activity or hobby attached to it. That makes sense at least you know the people there are single and looking better than a Meetup group that attracts non-single people.
This is good advice, yes, but don't discount meetups for your hobbies that don't include "single." You'll be meeting new people and that expands your circle either way.
Maybe I'll try a paid online dating website and stay away from the free ones like OKC
That's up to you. If you have a lot of money to throw at the problem, by all means, purchase away.
posted by juniperesque at 2:30 PM on February 5, 2012
1) I would like somebody to spend a long time with, its just that I know its a lot better to keep those expectations at bay. Dirt was just a metaphor , I think people are reading too much into what I'm writing and it got lost in translation. Dates are not dirt, nor are women or anything of that sort. I would like to find a woman I can date long term and see what comes out of it.
No, you don't know. It's clear that you don't. Going into meeting people with the expectation that they are not worthwhile or with long-term potential is part of why your attitude is so damaging. I don't think people are reading too much into what you're writing and it's getting lost in translation, because you've emphasized here that you tried to take emotion out of your questions and focus on logic. Well, your logic is showing. We're not reading too much into what you're writing, we're reading right through you.
2) If I do make an online profile, I'll have somebody re-read it and make sure I'm coming across as a fun, warm, loving guy.
This is good. You can ask several people re-read it, the more the better. Of course, if you're not warm or fun, it's just going to be a lie, so I'd work on that.
3) I notice how some women suggested that "go to events that you like to do" and threw out a list of events (bridge, chess etc.) but then went on to say that "don't approach me at yoga I wont even stand next to you" yet another woman said "yeah approaching me nicely in a bookstore would be fine."
I think that if I start going out to events I'll talk to women I find attractive in a slow easy going manner and if they don't happen to like it tough luck, some will like it and some won't.
How am I supposed to know before hand its okay to talk to THIS woman at a yoga class but not this woman, she isnt exactly wearing a sign saying "yoga is no good, I'm too self conscience or w.e"
It sounds like you have a hard time reading unspoken cues and body language. Many women who practice yoga do it for reasons other than being social, and if you can't tell the difference between those who want to talk and whose who don't, I'm not sure anyone can help you. Women who don't want to talk avert their eyes, give one-word answers to queries, etc. They act uninterested.
4) I'm not too worried about meeting a specific woman's standards since all people are different, I'm just looking for a woman that connects with me. Neither am I worried about women chasing after money or status since its easy to tell them apart from the rest.
You should worry about meeting womens' standards in a general sense, but fortunately that's not hard. Just being a good person about covers it, at a minimum. But no, you can't tell women who want your money from women who don't on a first, second, or third date. You aren't going to be able to tell until you meet them, get to know them, and start to understand their values. That takes time.
5) I like Classic Rock, I have been playing the electric guitar for about 6 years now, pretty damn good too if I may say. I love hiking and I took a survival course in college so I love camping and roughing it out. I'm pretty good at chess, I enjoy talking about politics more than I enjoy sports. I enjoy going to museums and the occasional dive bar in the city. Tourist traps I've done them all the statue of liberty, empire state, etc.. and would like taking a woman if she's never been there.
If you play the guitar alone, you're not leveraging this very cool trait. If you like hiking, there are tons of groups in New York that hike, travel, camp, etc. This is a great place to meet people who have something in common with you and a great opportunity to weed out people who find it distasteful. Chess may not be the best place to meet women unless you'd like to start things off competitively. Everyone says they like museums and dive bars, especially in their online dating profiles, so that doesn't really say anything about you at all. Playing tourist will only play to your weakness, that you live in Long Island. I'd try and capitalize on the hiking/outdoorsy stuff. As an added bonus, even if you meet people who live in the city, your living out in Long Island isn't going to mean as much, because they have to get out of the city anyway to do what they enjoy.
6) 60 hour work week is a requirement, I work in Financial services and times are tough so you have to keep your head down to keep your job. I'm hoping in a few years to leverage my experience to move to a higher position. I think women stating the hours as an issue are looking at it objectively before the fact of falling for someone.
Yes, just like any woman you first meet will. Take our advice.
7) I had a GF that lived in Staten Island and I lived in Queens at the time, we dated for 1.5 years and we loved each other a lot, I drove out to her once a week. She understood and was grateful and we made it work. So again I'm not too worried about the distance and if staying over is going to be a problem then it probably wont work anyway. But I understand that this may be an issue when using online dating since you can see where the person is from in their profile. I guess I can shorten my search to just LI when I make my profile
Your previous girlfriends, their preferences, and the schedule of your relationships with them are irrelevant. Red herring.
The best idea I've gotten so far is attending events termed "single" that have an activity or hobby attached to it. That makes sense at least you know the people there are single and looking better than a Meetup group that attracts non-single people.
This is good advice, yes, but don't discount meetups for your hobbies that don't include "single." You'll be meeting new people and that expands your circle either way.
Maybe I'll try a paid online dating website and stay away from the free ones like OKC
That's up to you. If you have a lot of money to throw at the problem, by all means, purchase away.
posted by juniperesque at 2:30 PM on February 5, 2012
1.) Learn to talk to women as people. We're people.
2.) If you can't pick up girls in real life, don''t expect that contacting them online is going to magically change the dynamic.
Example: Hot, stylish girl walks into a coffee shop and stands next to you in line. You're too nervous to talk to her in person. The opportunity slips by, and you never learn to talk to attractive girls you like.
Online, you approach the same sort of girls. They don't respond. Why? Either you're macking way above your station and need to get more realistic about where you are physically, socially, intellectually and charismatically, or you need to learn to talk to women better/with more confidence. Even if you manage to get a date with a girl from an online site now and then, if you have not furthered your ability to connect with women as people, you will not have success on your dates.
Because women are people.
posted by devymetal at 3:36 PM on February 5, 2012
2.) If you can't pick up girls in real life, don''t expect that contacting them online is going to magically change the dynamic.
Example: Hot, stylish girl walks into a coffee shop and stands next to you in line. You're too nervous to talk to her in person. The opportunity slips by, and you never learn to talk to attractive girls you like.
Online, you approach the same sort of girls. They don't respond. Why? Either you're macking way above your station and need to get more realistic about where you are physically, socially, intellectually and charismatically, or you need to learn to talk to women better/with more confidence. Even if you manage to get a date with a girl from an online site now and then, if you have not furthered your ability to connect with women as people, you will not have success on your dates.
Because women are people.
posted by devymetal at 3:36 PM on February 5, 2012
First off, one thing to note is that in your writing here you definitely come off a bit socially different, and I'd presume that this shows up in person and in your emails, texts, etc. That's ok, in that this is a big world, it takes all types, etc. But it's also going to be a barrier, because not all women are going to be super turned on by a guy who is socially different, and that difference might be making it tricky for you to be reading the more subtle social cues that smooth over a lot of interactions. At the very least, it's something to be aware of when you are evaluating people's reactions and responses.
I know that making more friends is a big important part of expanding your social circle and casting a wider net. I get that, but remember where am I supposed to me these said new guy acquaintances. I kind of run into the same problem that I do with women. I have few friends and no college or work buddies to fall back on. So it kind of boils down to meet guys at meetup events since you can't really pickup guys lol.
Ok, this is an example of kind of weird to me. Why on earth are you saying that only guys can be your friends? The comment directly above this as I am typing ends with "Because women are people," and that is 100% correct. You don't seem to be connecting with people as friends, so how you expect to jump straight to a relationship is beyond me.
Anyway, good luck; there are a lot of good suggestions and good advice here, and I hope some of it works for you.
posted by Forktine at 6:21 PM on February 5, 2012
I know that making more friends is a big important part of expanding your social circle and casting a wider net. I get that, but remember where am I supposed to me these said new guy acquaintances. I kind of run into the same problem that I do with women. I have few friends and no college or work buddies to fall back on. So it kind of boils down to meet guys at meetup events since you can't really pickup guys lol.
Ok, this is an example of kind of weird to me. Why on earth are you saying that only guys can be your friends? The comment directly above this as I am typing ends with "Because women are people," and that is 100% correct. You don't seem to be connecting with people as friends, so how you expect to jump straight to a relationship is beyond me.
Anyway, good luck; there are a lot of good suggestions and good advice here, and I hope some of it works for you.
posted by Forktine at 6:21 PM on February 5, 2012
2.) If you can't pick up girls in real life, don''t expect that contacting them online is going to magically change the dynamic.
I understand what you're saying but If you're a guy I can go out on a limb that you aren't talking to girls in line and getting dates either. Its a good way to learn how to talk to people though and sure I do it all the time.
Look if people want to come here and tell me that somehow there is something socially wrong because of the way I write, then go right ahead. I came looking for helpful advice, telling me I'm off and socially different I really don't need that and quite frankly don't care.
I appreciate everyone else that kept their answers short and sweet and to the point
posted by curious-mind at 8:20 PM on February 5, 2012
I understand what you're saying but If you're a guy I can go out on a limb that you aren't talking to girls in line and getting dates either. Its a good way to learn how to talk to people though and sure I do it all the time.
Look if people want to come here and tell me that somehow there is something socially wrong because of the way I write, then go right ahead. I came looking for helpful advice, telling me I'm off and socially different I really don't need that and quite frankly don't care.
I appreciate everyone else that kept their answers short and sweet and to the point
posted by curious-mind at 8:20 PM on February 5, 2012
I forgot to mention
1) I dont need advice on how to talk to women, or how to look at them as people, or to change my expectations or do XYZ in the end if you sit at home complaining about your miserable life its up to you to change it. That's what I'm doing, maybe some women will find me weird maybe some will be rude its all part of the learning process
2) After taking stock of all the advice this is what I think will be best for me
Meetup groups doing things that I enjoy, perhaps some single events thrown in there, online dating.
I'm not going to try and pickup women at bars or clubs, its just too much of a hit and miss
Thats that.
posted by curious-mind at 8:26 PM on February 5, 2012
1) I dont need advice on how to talk to women, or how to look at them as people, or to change my expectations or do XYZ in the end if you sit at home complaining about your miserable life its up to you to change it. That's what I'm doing, maybe some women will find me weird maybe some will be rude its all part of the learning process
2) After taking stock of all the advice this is what I think will be best for me
Meetup groups doing things that I enjoy, perhaps some single events thrown in there, online dating.
I'm not going to try and pickup women at bars or clubs, its just too much of a hit and miss
Thats that.
posted by curious-mind at 8:26 PM on February 5, 2012
It's perfectly reasonable to say you're not going to try and pick up at bars, that doesn't suit a lot of people. But I think your single friend might still be a good partner, if you share any interests can't he go to your new meetup events with you? It's often easier to start a new activity with a friend, and while it might reduce your immediate interaction level with new people, it might make you more likely to continue turning up until you've gotten to know the other regulars reasonably well.
posted by jacalata at 11:02 PM on February 5, 2012
posted by jacalata at 11:02 PM on February 5, 2012
Work less, enjoy the richness of life single, learn to appreciate people as people.
The task and object focus of your description is seriously offputting. Brushing it of as mere criticism of how you write is dodging the point: it shows a lot about how you think.
posted by ead at 12:45 AM on February 6, 2012
The task and object focus of your description is seriously offputting. Brushing it of as mere criticism of how you write is dodging the point: it shows a lot about how you think.
posted by ead at 12:45 AM on February 6, 2012
Look for a speed dating event near you for your age range. easy peasy.
posted by joannqy at 12:55 AM on February 6, 2012
posted by joannqy at 12:55 AM on February 6, 2012
Sorry I didn't get to your post that you're uncomfortable with it. It's too bad. I agree with some of the other sentiments in this thread, you should get more comfortable in your own skin, don't obsess over this, learn to enjoy people in general - introvert or not. Strategizing socializing for the expressed purpose of meeting women means you don't really like socializing. What do you think being with a woman is, being social with romantic overtones. If you can't enjoy that first part, the dating part won't be enjoyable either.
I just figured since you are disinterested in the other stuff except that it might have you cross paths with a girl your age, you might as well be efficient and save the insincerety. Sorry if this is coming across as so critical, but as a person first and a female in your age range second, I understand some strategizing, but I don't see myself enjoying the company of that thought process. Good luck.
posted by joannqy at 1:07 AM on February 6, 2012
I just figured since you are disinterested in the other stuff except that it might have you cross paths with a girl your age, you might as well be efficient and save the insincerety. Sorry if this is coming across as so critical, but as a person first and a female in your age range second, I understand some strategizing, but I don't see myself enjoying the company of that thought process. Good luck.
posted by joannqy at 1:07 AM on February 6, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:48 PM on February 4, 2012