Is disliking a SO's friends a dealbreaker in a serious relationship?
April 6, 2011 9:37 AM Subscribe
Is disliking a SO's friends a dealbreaker in a serious relationship? (snowflake details inside)
Hi MeFites: I searched through the archives and didn’t find much, yet this is starting to bug me more and more, so I’m hoping the collective wisdom of MeFi can help me out here. I’ll try to keep the details brief so here it goes.
I'm a 30 year old female and my BF is 29. We’re currently both in school and about to graduate very soon. We've been dating for almost a year and are very happy together. In fact, we’re more in love now than we were in the beginning stages of our relationship. Our relationship has gotten to the point where we were spending pretty much everyday together and we’re still not sick of each other. I would like to get married in the near future and I’m starting to think if he is the “one”. However, there’s one issue in our relationship that I’m worried about and I’m concerned if it could be a dealbreaker further down the road. The issue concerns my BF’s friends. So I have my set of friends, my BF has his and we’re starting to develop friendships with other couples (our mutual friends). We have a great time if it’s with either my friends or our mutual friends, but my BF’s friends tend to be people younger than him (early to mid-20’s) and I think they tend to be immature. They like to go clubbing, bar hopping, going to raves, etc. none of which are my scene. I’ve done some of these activities with him and his friends and I don’t enjoy it much. We don’t really do these activities when we hang with my friends or our mutual friends. Plus, some of his friends use drugs, which I’m totally against and I don’t have any friends who use drugs. Me and my BF rarely argue. In the past, when we’ve argued, a majority of the time, it was because his friends and our (or my) interaction with them (like talking drugs in front of me or actively trying to get drunk). But we’ve never argued if we hang out with my friends or our mutual friends.
I’m afraid that my BF’s friends are a negative influence on him with their partygoing ways. I’m also concerned because while he’s a sweet guy, sometimes I feel that he’s too nice and let his friends walk over him. Like he’d be willing to do a lot more and inconvenience himself for the sake of his friends than they’d do so for him. It also bothers me that he’d jump to immediately defend his close friends but not doing that with me in a similar situation. For example, recently we had an argument over the way his best friend treated me in a particular situation, he just jumps to her defense without even considering my point of view first. But when I talk to him about something, he never jumps to my defense right away.
This issue hasn’t affected us too much so far, but I’m concerned this might escalate to more frequent and more serious arguments in the future, especially since I’d like to get married in the near future, I would like to know if this issue is a dealbreaker or not.
Some more details:
We have met each other’s parents and some family members, so far everyone liked each other. We’ve talked about long-term goals, no major conflicts there. We don't know where our future jobs will be after we graduate, but we'll try to find something in the same city. So really, his friends are really the biggest potential time bomb that we have in our relationship.
Also, as a straight male, most of his close friends are lesbians. He doesn't have a lot of straight guy friends. I don't know if that affects the answer or not.
Hi MeFites: I searched through the archives and didn’t find much, yet this is starting to bug me more and more, so I’m hoping the collective wisdom of MeFi can help me out here. I’ll try to keep the details brief so here it goes.
I'm a 30 year old female and my BF is 29. We’re currently both in school and about to graduate very soon. We've been dating for almost a year and are very happy together. In fact, we’re more in love now than we were in the beginning stages of our relationship. Our relationship has gotten to the point where we were spending pretty much everyday together and we’re still not sick of each other. I would like to get married in the near future and I’m starting to think if he is the “one”. However, there’s one issue in our relationship that I’m worried about and I’m concerned if it could be a dealbreaker further down the road. The issue concerns my BF’s friends. So I have my set of friends, my BF has his and we’re starting to develop friendships with other couples (our mutual friends). We have a great time if it’s with either my friends or our mutual friends, but my BF’s friends tend to be people younger than him (early to mid-20’s) and I think they tend to be immature. They like to go clubbing, bar hopping, going to raves, etc. none of which are my scene. I’ve done some of these activities with him and his friends and I don’t enjoy it much. We don’t really do these activities when we hang with my friends or our mutual friends. Plus, some of his friends use drugs, which I’m totally against and I don’t have any friends who use drugs. Me and my BF rarely argue. In the past, when we’ve argued, a majority of the time, it was because his friends and our (or my) interaction with them (like talking drugs in front of me or actively trying to get drunk). But we’ve never argued if we hang out with my friends or our mutual friends.
I’m afraid that my BF’s friends are a negative influence on him with their partygoing ways. I’m also concerned because while he’s a sweet guy, sometimes I feel that he’s too nice and let his friends walk over him. Like he’d be willing to do a lot more and inconvenience himself for the sake of his friends than they’d do so for him. It also bothers me that he’d jump to immediately defend his close friends but not doing that with me in a similar situation. For example, recently we had an argument over the way his best friend treated me in a particular situation, he just jumps to her defense without even considering my point of view first. But when I talk to him about something, he never jumps to my defense right away.
This issue hasn’t affected us too much so far, but I’m concerned this might escalate to more frequent and more serious arguments in the future, especially since I’d like to get married in the near future, I would like to know if this issue is a dealbreaker or not.
Some more details:
We have met each other’s parents and some family members, so far everyone liked each other. We’ve talked about long-term goals, no major conflicts there. We don't know where our future jobs will be after we graduate, but we'll try to find something in the same city. So really, his friends are really the biggest potential time bomb that we have in our relationship.
Also, as a straight male, most of his close friends are lesbians. He doesn't have a lot of straight guy friends. I don't know if that affects the answer or not.
I think the key is to figure out if the two of you can find a compromise that works for all parties. To survive long term, you'll have to work well together as a team. Maybe he can go out without you when he hangs with these friends- you don't have to always go out together. Maybe you can let him know when you're feeling inconvenienced because he's playing doormat, and he can mollify you. The friends themselves are almost irrelevant; friends come and go, but there will always be things you need to iron out between the two of you, so it's important to know before you get married whether that's something the two of you can do.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:49 AM on April 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:49 AM on April 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
You say, "I think they tend to be immature. They like to go clubbing, bar hopping, going to raves, etc. none of which are my scene. I’ve done some of these activities with him and his friends and I don’t enjoy it much. We don’t really do these activities when we hang with my friends or our mutual friends. Plus, some of his friends use drugs, which I’m totally against and I don’t have any friends who use drugs... I’m afraid that my BF’s friends are a negative influence on him with their partygoing ways."
I think you're not identifying the reason this upset you. Let me take a stab at it:
You are afraid your boyfriend actually enjoys clubbing/bars/raves, and is pretending to be someone he's not when he's with you. This worries you because once you get comfortable in a LTR with him, he might slip back to doing these things more regularly.
Your are afraid that your boyfriend might actually be lying to you about how much he enjoys clubbing/bars/raves.
Your values as they relate to illegal drugs are not compatible with your boyfriend's values as they relate to illegal drugs, and this is a big deal to you.
You worry that your boyfriend, for all his good qualities, shows that he's a pushover in this one way and that it might manifest in other ways that haven't been shown to you yet.
You feel that your boyfriend doesn't put you first at all times, and you want to be put first at all times. (It's okay to admit this, even if it's not realistic, and work from there.)
You feel threatened by all of his younger female friends, even though they are mostly lesbians, because they represent something you are not.
You are worried that his friends reflect a past that he has not shared with you, especially related to drug use/abuse.
Try those on for size. Do any of those feel right? If so, think about bringing up those concerns with your boyfriend. He might be able to assuage your fears, or he might admit that some of those fears are justified. But you won't know unless you ask.
posted by juniperesque at 9:50 AM on April 6, 2011 [51 favorites]
I think you're not identifying the reason this upset you. Let me take a stab at it:
Try those on for size. Do any of those feel right? If so, think about bringing up those concerns with your boyfriend. He might be able to assuage your fears, or he might admit that some of those fears are justified. But you won't know unless you ask.
posted by juniperesque at 9:50 AM on April 6, 2011 [51 favorites]
Also, as a straight male, most of his close friends are lesbians.
This is probably not a great comment, but is it possible your boyfriend is bisexual? For a lot of GLBT people (and for some straight people) the "party" culture lasts a lot longer into adulthood.
Have you ever invited his friends to spend time with you? Get to know them. They come with him.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:50 AM on April 6, 2011
This is probably not a great comment, but is it possible your boyfriend is bisexual? For a lot of GLBT people (and for some straight people) the "party" culture lasts a lot longer into adulthood.
Have you ever invited his friends to spend time with you? Get to know them. They come with him.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:50 AM on April 6, 2011
You will not be happy until your boyfriend dumps these type of friends. The first question is will he be happy if he does? Coming from a guy whose one-time gf wanted to dictate a lot about my relationships with people other than her, it sounds like you want to control a lot about him. Find out if he wants you telling him what to do or it will be a problem in the long-run. It also sounds like you think your bf is a pushover and you want to change that. Do not get married to anyone thinking you will change them. Wanting a more assertive boyfriend and thinking you will change that or protect him from himself is no different than thinking you can stop someone from drinking or drugging. It is who he is and HE has to want to change.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:56 AM on April 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:56 AM on April 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
This doesn't sound to me like it's about your boyfriend's friends. It's about your boyfriend. You don't like to do some of the things he likes to do, and you don't like that he's around people who use drugs. That's fine; it's within your rights to feel that way, but you can't change those things about him. Getting mad when he wants to go out clubbing is not a good strategy for a healthy long-term relationship. You need to decide if this part of his life is something you can accept, and if not, you need to move on.
The part about him not standing up for you and defending his friends instead also doesn't have anything to do with them. This is about him, about his behavior and whether it is acceptable to you.
posted by something something at 9:58 AM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
The part about him not standing up for you and defending his friends instead also doesn't have anything to do with them. This is about him, about his behavior and whether it is acceptable to you.
posted by something something at 9:58 AM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
By your own account, there aren't much grounds for feeling so very threatened and concerned about these friends. You're upset because your boyfriend defends them over you (which is a valid complaint but also, they're his friends and you don't like them, so that's going to happen), they do drugs, and you feel they don't appreciate him.
Also by your own account, you hang out with your boyfriend every day. You don't argue very much. You're not tired of each other. You think he might be The One. It seems that the friends haven't intruded so much on your relationship that they've hindered a natural and positive progression.
Just from reading your own account of these bad influences, they honestly don't sound that terrible. It just sounds like you don't like them very much, and you might not like that fact that in order to hang out with these non-mutual friends your boyfriend will have to not hang out with you. That's okay.
I think it would be pretty unfair of you to ask your boyfriend to stop hanging out with these people, and I also think it'd be a shame to dump him simply because he hangs out with younger friends who go to bars and do recreational drugs. That's just me. But I do recommend that you repeat juniperesque's bulletpoints aloud and see how they sound outside your head.
posted by Hwaet at 9:59 AM on April 6, 2011 [3 favorites]
Also by your own account, you hang out with your boyfriend every day. You don't argue very much. You're not tired of each other. You think he might be The One. It seems that the friends haven't intruded so much on your relationship that they've hindered a natural and positive progression.
Just from reading your own account of these bad influences, they honestly don't sound that terrible. It just sounds like you don't like them very much, and you might not like that fact that in order to hang out with these non-mutual friends your boyfriend will have to not hang out with you. That's okay.
I think it would be pretty unfair of you to ask your boyfriend to stop hanging out with these people, and I also think it'd be a shame to dump him simply because he hangs out with younger friends who go to bars and do recreational drugs. That's just me. But I do recommend that you repeat juniperesque's bulletpoints aloud and see how they sound outside your head.
posted by Hwaet at 9:59 AM on April 6, 2011 [3 favorites]
If your BF is a pushover, then how is dictating he change his friends solving that problem?
I think juniperesque raises some really important questions.
I'm of the school that it actually can be a good thing if you and your SO have friends the other doesn't necessarily like. Not like actually hate, but you don't have to get along with all of his friends nor he yours. You have to trust and respect, which can be difficult but it's necessary for a healthy long term relationship.
If your BF likes clubbing and the like with these people is that so bad? If you don't like his behaviour with the clubbing and drugs, as other have pointed out, that's his behaviour, not just his friends. You need to talk about that in your long term plans.
posted by kendrak at 10:03 AM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think juniperesque raises some really important questions.
I'm of the school that it actually can be a good thing if you and your SO have friends the other doesn't necessarily like. Not like actually hate, but you don't have to get along with all of his friends nor he yours. You have to trust and respect, which can be difficult but it's necessary for a healthy long term relationship.
If your BF likes clubbing and the like with these people is that so bad? If you don't like his behaviour with the clubbing and drugs, as other have pointed out, that's his behaviour, not just his friends. You need to talk about that in your long term plans.
posted by kendrak at 10:03 AM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
I have the same issue... (although no 'hard' drugs involved).
I live with my boyfriend of two years.
At the beginning we moved to where he grew up and wanted me to hang out with him and his old pals. Basically everyone would get wasted at the bars and we would all end up at someones house while they played old records until 5am.
So. After many discussions, I told him I wasn't interested in hanging out with him and his drunk pals until 5am. He also explained that he likes to go out and have a good time with his best friends occasionally and his froends are extremely importamt to him. So now he goes and hangs out with them and I don't. If he is too drunk to drive he stays overnight at his friends house.
If there's an activity not involving getting wasted and talking about/playing music, (art shows, festivals, day trips, hiking) then I usually come along... even if I don't particularly care for a friend. He really likes me around so I just deal.
So basically, he is an adult and you will probably push him away if you try (or seem to try) to control his life/friends. So discuss some compromises.
Let him do his thing while you do his.
posted by KogeLiz at 10:08 AM on April 6, 2011 [4 favorites]
I live with my boyfriend of two years.
At the beginning we moved to where he grew up and wanted me to hang out with him and his old pals. Basically everyone would get wasted at the bars and we would all end up at someones house while they played old records until 5am.
So. After many discussions, I told him I wasn't interested in hanging out with him and his drunk pals until 5am. He also explained that he likes to go out and have a good time with his best friends occasionally and his froends are extremely importamt to him. So now he goes and hangs out with them and I don't. If he is too drunk to drive he stays overnight at his friends house.
If there's an activity not involving getting wasted and talking about/playing music, (art shows, festivals, day trips, hiking) then I usually come along... even if I don't particularly care for a friend. He really likes me around so I just deal.
So basically, he is an adult and you will probably push him away if you try (or seem to try) to control his life/friends. So discuss some compromises.
Let him do his thing while you do his.
posted by KogeLiz at 10:08 AM on April 6, 2011 [4 favorites]
I think it's probably worth withholding judgment until after you graduate. Graduation, particularly from grad school, is a pretty huge deal both personally and professionally. Both of your lives are about to change dramatically. Neither of you really knows what's going to happen to either of you after the big day. It would not at all surprise me if the realities of work put a huge damper on both your boyfriend's and his friends' partygoing ways. I know it did the same thing for a lot of my classmates in law school.
This isn't just waiting to see if this particular issue resolves itself either. You say that you don't know of any other potential time bombs, but that's just the thing: if you know about them they aren't potential issues in the future, they're issues now. Graduation, getting jobs, and shifting your lifestyle from student to working stiff is going to raise new issues.
For one thing, as busy as graduate students are, you're both about to have radically less free time than you do now. Even some of the busiest grad students I know routinely get up at 8:00AM or later and stay up well past midnight. I was closer to 7:00AM and midnight when I was in law school, but now it's more like 5:00AM and 10:00PM. The amount of partying one can do with that schedule is almost non-existent. More than that, as graduate students, even though you've both probably got a ton of work to do, there's generally only a dozen or so hours a week that you have to be at a particular place at a particular time, leaving most of each day pretty flexible as to what you do when. This makes your schedules a lot easier to coordinate and gives you freedom in ways you may not appreciate. Once you get jobs, odds are decent you'll need to spend upwards of eight hours a day, the same hours each day, at the office. This will be less true if you land teaching jobs than if you enter corporate America, but only slightly.
These sorts of changes are going to act on you both in unpredictable ways. My last girlfriend and I were doing pretty well until a few weeks before we broke up. Then I got a new job and realized that 1) I had been putting about 80% of the work into the relationship, and 2) now that I was working 60 hours a week at a moderately stressful job instead of 35 hours a week mostly spent surfing MetaFilter, I no longer had time for that. Neither of us really saw that coming, but we broke up less than a month later.*
I'm not saying that the same thing is going to happen to you, as it sounds like you've got a good thing going here, but I really would recommend that you don't come to any final decisions either about the issue you've raised or the relationship in general for at least another few months. You'll both have a better idea about the people you're going to be once you graduate.
*There were obviously other factors involved here, but that was a big one.
posted by valkyryn at 10:09 AM on April 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
This isn't just waiting to see if this particular issue resolves itself either. You say that you don't know of any other potential time bombs, but that's just the thing: if you know about them they aren't potential issues in the future, they're issues now. Graduation, getting jobs, and shifting your lifestyle from student to working stiff is going to raise new issues.
For one thing, as busy as graduate students are, you're both about to have radically less free time than you do now. Even some of the busiest grad students I know routinely get up at 8:00AM or later and stay up well past midnight. I was closer to 7:00AM and midnight when I was in law school, but now it's more like 5:00AM and 10:00PM. The amount of partying one can do with that schedule is almost non-existent. More than that, as graduate students, even though you've both probably got a ton of work to do, there's generally only a dozen or so hours a week that you have to be at a particular place at a particular time, leaving most of each day pretty flexible as to what you do when. This makes your schedules a lot easier to coordinate and gives you freedom in ways you may not appreciate. Once you get jobs, odds are decent you'll need to spend upwards of eight hours a day, the same hours each day, at the office. This will be less true if you land teaching jobs than if you enter corporate America, but only slightly.
These sorts of changes are going to act on you both in unpredictable ways. My last girlfriend and I were doing pretty well until a few weeks before we broke up. Then I got a new job and realized that 1) I had been putting about 80% of the work into the relationship, and 2) now that I was working 60 hours a week at a moderately stressful job instead of 35 hours a week mostly spent surfing MetaFilter, I no longer had time for that. Neither of us really saw that coming, but we broke up less than a month later.*
I'm not saying that the same thing is going to happen to you, as it sounds like you've got a good thing going here, but I really would recommend that you don't come to any final decisions either about the issue you've raised or the relationship in general for at least another few months. You'll both have a better idea about the people you're going to be once you graduate.
*There were obviously other factors involved here, but that was a big one.
posted by valkyryn at 10:09 AM on April 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
Some people are much more tolerant of having a social circle that contains people who have differing lifestyles and value systems. Some people make a point of choosing friends who live the "appropriate" lifestyles. I have a feeling that you and your boyfriend have different beliefs about what kind of people you allow in your social circles.
we’re more in love now than we were in the beginning stages of our relationship. Our relationship has gotten to the point where we were spending pretty much everyday together and we’re still not sick of each other. I would like to get married in the near future and I’m starting to think if he is the “one”.
Finding all of this and finding someone who has "appropriate" friends seems like a tall order. I think you need to be more comfortable, as your boyfriend is, with the fact that the world is large enough to contain different value systems and lifestyles, and in some cases these people can get along and be friends. Now, if you feel that your boyfriend actually does drugs and wants to live a lifestyle that you don't want to share, that's something you should be concerned about, but you don't really indicate that in your question.
Along with juniperesque's questions, I think you should take a deep look inside yourself and ask whether you see yourself having a life with a partner who will always have a circle of friends who aren't going to be living lives that you yourself approve of. That seems to be your issue-- if/when these friends fade into the background, your boyfriend will have other friends who do other things you don't want to participate in/don't approve of. I don't think that's a dealbreaker, but you have to ask yourself if that's a future you're comfortable with and whether being single is a better alternative that.
posted by deanc at 10:09 AM on April 6, 2011 [4 favorites]
we’re more in love now than we were in the beginning stages of our relationship. Our relationship has gotten to the point where we were spending pretty much everyday together and we’re still not sick of each other. I would like to get married in the near future and I’m starting to think if he is the “one”.
Finding all of this and finding someone who has "appropriate" friends seems like a tall order. I think you need to be more comfortable, as your boyfriend is, with the fact that the world is large enough to contain different value systems and lifestyles, and in some cases these people can get along and be friends. Now, if you feel that your boyfriend actually does drugs and wants to live a lifestyle that you don't want to share, that's something you should be concerned about, but you don't really indicate that in your question.
Along with juniperesque's questions, I think you should take a deep look inside yourself and ask whether you see yourself having a life with a partner who will always have a circle of friends who aren't going to be living lives that you yourself approve of. That seems to be your issue-- if/when these friends fade into the background, your boyfriend will have other friends who do other things you don't want to participate in/don't approve of. I don't think that's a dealbreaker, but you have to ask yourself if that's a future you're comfortable with and whether being single is a better alternative that.
posted by deanc at 10:09 AM on April 6, 2011 [4 favorites]
I think your boyfriend needs some friends that are just his friends, and not people the two of you hang around with all the time, so to me it is fine if you don't care for all of them.
Consider talking to your boyfriend about the BEHAVIORS that make you uncomfortable and then find some other way to spend your time if that's on the agenda ("I don't take drugs and I feel awkward around Tom and Sue because they do...is it okay if you spend some time with them without me?"). It seems pretty clear whether you are going to meet for, say, dinner at a restaurant or drinks in club, so if you don't want to hurt his friends' feelings, just say you don't feel comfortable in that venue (which is true anyway, right?).
If you don't feel threatened by his friends, it won't bother you in the least to occasionally not do things with your boyfriend and his friends.
But I think maybe you do feel a bit threatened; you mention that your boyfriend doesn't come to your defense with his friends, even though you say he is just not the type to do that anyway, so maybe you do feel like you are competing with them. Y
ou seem to want to compare his friends with yours and show that yours are 'better'. Just because there are no altercations with your friends doesn't mean your boyfriend doesn't have a problem with them--he may just not be the type to get drawn into disputes like that. In other words, neither group of friends is "better" than the other, and I don't think this has to wreck your relationship unless you feel you need to control your boyfriend's interactions. Which, to me, is a red flag anyway.
When you are really secure in a relationship, you accept that you have parts of both your lives that overlap, you have that time together that is just for the two of you, and you have those parts (like his friends' activities you don't care for) that are each your own, and that you are both okay with that.
posted by misha at 10:12 AM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
Consider talking to your boyfriend about the BEHAVIORS that make you uncomfortable and then find some other way to spend your time if that's on the agenda ("I don't take drugs and I feel awkward around Tom and Sue because they do...is it okay if you spend some time with them without me?"). It seems pretty clear whether you are going to meet for, say, dinner at a restaurant or drinks in club, so if you don't want to hurt his friends' feelings, just say you don't feel comfortable in that venue (which is true anyway, right?).
If you don't feel threatened by his friends, it won't bother you in the least to occasionally not do things with your boyfriend and his friends.
But I think maybe you do feel a bit threatened; you mention that your boyfriend doesn't come to your defense with his friends, even though you say he is just not the type to do that anyway, so maybe you do feel like you are competing with them. Y
ou seem to want to compare his friends with yours and show that yours are 'better'. Just because there are no altercations with your friends doesn't mean your boyfriend doesn't have a problem with them--he may just not be the type to get drawn into disputes like that. In other words, neither group of friends is "better" than the other, and I don't think this has to wreck your relationship unless you feel you need to control your boyfriend's interactions. Which, to me, is a red flag anyway.
When you are really secure in a relationship, you accept that you have parts of both your lives that overlap, you have that time together that is just for the two of you, and you have those parts (like his friends' activities you don't care for) that are each your own, and that you are both okay with that.
posted by misha at 10:12 AM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
Good advice upthread.
I’m also concerned because while he’s a sweet guy, sometimes I feel that he’s too nice and let his friends walk over him. Like he’d be willing to do a lot more and inconvenience himself for the sake of his friends than they’d do so for him.
I hear two things here - 1) that you are slightly jealous or envious of the connection between him and his friends. You feel (truthfully or not) that he places those friendships before your relationship, in terms of importance. You are a little afraid that you are second best. 2) You don't trust your boyfriend to make good decisions for himself. You think you know better than he does.
I think the second is more destructive than the first. You do need to trust that your SO knows what's best for himself. He will pick up on that lack of trust and resent being treated as a child. It may come out in rebellious or sulky behavior - arguments. It may spread to other areas.
Perhaps you don't trust his judgment because of some insecurity on your part. Your insecurities are being reflected in your desire to control his associations.
Try to work more on trusting and letting go. Trust that your SO won't run off with them and go on a drug bender. Trust that he will take your side when it is important. Trust his judgment and treat him as an adult - as I am sure you would like to be treated. If you cannot trust your SO to make good decisions for good reason, well ... then perhaps there is a serious problem.
posted by griselda at 10:15 AM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
I’m also concerned because while he’s a sweet guy, sometimes I feel that he’s too nice and let his friends walk over him. Like he’d be willing to do a lot more and inconvenience himself for the sake of his friends than they’d do so for him.
I hear two things here - 1) that you are slightly jealous or envious of the connection between him and his friends. You feel (truthfully or not) that he places those friendships before your relationship, in terms of importance. You are a little afraid that you are second best. 2) You don't trust your boyfriend to make good decisions for himself. You think you know better than he does.
I think the second is more destructive than the first. You do need to trust that your SO knows what's best for himself. He will pick up on that lack of trust and resent being treated as a child. It may come out in rebellious or sulky behavior - arguments. It may spread to other areas.
Perhaps you don't trust his judgment because of some insecurity on your part. Your insecurities are being reflected in your desire to control his associations.
Try to work more on trusting and letting go. Trust that your SO won't run off with them and go on a drug bender. Trust that he will take your side when it is important. Trust his judgment and treat him as an adult - as I am sure you would like to be treated. If you cannot trust your SO to make good decisions for good reason, well ... then perhaps there is a serious problem.
posted by griselda at 10:15 AM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
I’m afraid that my BF’s friends are a negative influence on him with their partygoing ways.
Are you "afraid" that these people might someday be a negative influence on him? Or are they a negative influence on him? You've been dating for almost a year and are thinking about marriage, so presumably you've seen how he behaves around them, what he does when he goes out with them, and how their presence in his life affects him in a more general sense.
If you don't like the influence these people actually have on his life, yeah, that might be a good reason to see where things go and maybe not jump into a big commitment yet.
If you just don't like his friends, to be honest, if you're losing sleep over the fact that his friends party and get drunk and maybe smoke a little weed, you might not be as invested in this person as you think you are.
posted by Sara C. at 10:33 AM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
Are you "afraid" that these people might someday be a negative influence on him? Or are they a negative influence on him? You've been dating for almost a year and are thinking about marriage, so presumably you've seen how he behaves around them, what he does when he goes out with them, and how their presence in his life affects him in a more general sense.
If you don't like the influence these people actually have on his life, yeah, that might be a good reason to see where things go and maybe not jump into a big commitment yet.
If you just don't like his friends, to be honest, if you're losing sleep over the fact that his friends party and get drunk and maybe smoke a little weed, you might not be as invested in this person as you think you are.
posted by Sara C. at 10:33 AM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
(like talking drugs in front of me or actively trying to get drunk)
This jumped out at me. Do you mean taking drugs or talking about drugs? And which drugs are we talking about here? Because if someone was shooting heroin in front of me like it wasn't no thing, then yeah that would be a problem, but if I walked in on someone smoking a bowl, that's kind of different.
Also, his friends were trying to get drunk and you and your boyfriend fought about it?
The way you talk about that makes it sound like you either don't drink or don't drink very much. Does your boyfriend?
Another thing that jumped out:
I’m afraid that my BF’s friends are a negative influence on him with their partygoing ways.
You're going to need to be more specific about what constitutes a negative influence. Do you feel like they're influencing him to go to parties and that sort of thing? Or do you feel like they're encouraging him to do genuinely harmful things? If so, what things?
Look, here's the thing. You're asking if it's a big problem if you dislike your SO's friends. But I've got no idea if you like them or not; what I know is they have pastimes you don't approve of. If they want to go partying, drinking, whatever - you maybe want to spend some time thinking about why this isn't just "I'm not a big partier, but have fun, guys!" as opposed to it being the reason you don't like them.
For example, recently we had an argument over the way his best friend treated me in a particular situation, he just jumps to her defense without even considering my point of view first.
What was the situation?
I'd really need to know more about all this before I'd be able to say one way or the other.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 10:44 AM on April 6, 2011 [9 favorites]
This jumped out at me. Do you mean taking drugs or talking about drugs? And which drugs are we talking about here? Because if someone was shooting heroin in front of me like it wasn't no thing, then yeah that would be a problem, but if I walked in on someone smoking a bowl, that's kind of different.
Also, his friends were trying to get drunk and you and your boyfriend fought about it?
The way you talk about that makes it sound like you either don't drink or don't drink very much. Does your boyfriend?
Another thing that jumped out:
I’m afraid that my BF’s friends are a negative influence on him with their partygoing ways.
You're going to need to be more specific about what constitutes a negative influence. Do you feel like they're influencing him to go to parties and that sort of thing? Or do you feel like they're encouraging him to do genuinely harmful things? If so, what things?
Look, here's the thing. You're asking if it's a big problem if you dislike your SO's friends. But I've got no idea if you like them or not; what I know is they have pastimes you don't approve of. If they want to go partying, drinking, whatever - you maybe want to spend some time thinking about why this isn't just "I'm not a big partier, but have fun, guys!" as opposed to it being the reason you don't like them.
For example, recently we had an argument over the way his best friend treated me in a particular situation, he just jumps to her defense without even considering my point of view first.
What was the situation?
I'd really need to know more about all this before I'd be able to say one way or the other.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 10:44 AM on April 6, 2011 [9 favorites]
Tread carefully. If you successfully eliminate these friends and their influence, you may end up with a lonely, depressed, and resentful partner, which is a far worse situation.
Be prepared for these feelings to persist after these friends are gone, and for them to find new nervous focus on other aspects of your partner.
Talk to your partner about your feelings- not his friends- and build the trust and openness you need to continue. You can never eliminate all temptation, but you can build a relationship where it doesn't concern you.
posted by fake at 10:50 AM on April 6, 2011
Be prepared for these feelings to persist after these friends are gone, and for them to find new nervous focus on other aspects of your partner.
Talk to your partner about your feelings- not his friends- and build the trust and openness you need to continue. You can never eliminate all temptation, but you can build a relationship where it doesn't concern you.
posted by fake at 10:50 AM on April 6, 2011
No. A person's friends are not a dealbreaker for a relationship. Your feelings about the person are a dealbreaker.
Look inward, and ask yourself - do I want to be with this person, including the behaviors he exhibits that I don't like that I in the past I have chosen to blame on his friends? If the answer is yes, then please carry on. If the answer is no, as others have mentioned upthread, then address those behaviors with your SO and do not make it about his friends at all.
Whatever you do, do not break up with him and tell him it's because you don't like his friends. Being dumped because of something that far outside of the scope of your control, and adding the extra layer of making the person you just dumped feel distrustful and resentful of the very support system he will need to get past it is a mindfuck of the first order. That would be cruel. Do not do it.
posted by pazazygeek at 10:56 AM on April 6, 2011 [6 favorites]
Look inward, and ask yourself - do I want to be with this person, including the behaviors he exhibits that I don't like that I in the past I have chosen to blame on his friends? If the answer is yes, then please carry on. If the answer is no, as others have mentioned upthread, then address those behaviors with your SO and do not make it about his friends at all.
Whatever you do, do not break up with him and tell him it's because you don't like his friends. Being dumped because of something that far outside of the scope of your control, and adding the extra layer of making the person you just dumped feel distrustful and resentful of the very support system he will need to get past it is a mindfuck of the first order. That would be cruel. Do not do it.
posted by pazazygeek at 10:56 AM on April 6, 2011 [6 favorites]
I can empathize somewhat because one of my husband's close friends really really hated me from the outset, and often picked fights with me, and my husband is sort of passive and also believes pretty firmly that one doesn't have to think people are good people in order to spend time with them (I feel differently). He's also laid back, and doesn't like to get involved with conflict. And so I experienced a lot of frustration about that.
The experience was a lesson in patience and forgoing control, though. I eventually realized that, because of their shared history, my husband valued this friend and he wasn't likely to go anywhere. So I just let it go--gave up fighting with him about him or even commenting on it.
Almost a decade later, and my husband doesn't really hang out with the guy anymore. He kind of made an annoying fool out of himself at our wedding and eventually my husband got tired of his behavior and their friendship just started to fade away. And, because this was his choice, my husband feels respected, rather than infringed upon (which likely would have made him cling faster to the dude).
Now having gone through this, I think it's a really really good idea to not try to control another person's friendships. Because fundamentally, that's what your insecurities and arguments are communicating to your boyfriend: that you don't like this friends and don't want them around, that you want him to choose you, not them. You're giving him an ultimatum, even if you don't realize it. And that doesn't really create respect within a relationship.
I do want to address something else here, the fact that you're upset about the drinking/drug use behaviors of others. I have some friends who are like this, who will get angry at other people for behavior that really falls under the heading of "normal social drinking or drug use"--they throw tantrums when they see people doing shots at parties. I respect the fact that you don't want to use drugs yourself, and that you don't drink. I might even be fine with this sort of thing if you were getting annoyed at your boyfriend for doing these things, or if their behavior was somehow putting you in harm's way, either legally or otherwise (driving you around while drunk, using drugs at your house). But picking fights because people are talking about drug use is really unreasonable and controlling. You need to respect that other people make different choices than you and have a right to discuss their lives. Seriously.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:59 AM on April 6, 2011 [5 favorites]
The experience was a lesson in patience and forgoing control, though. I eventually realized that, because of their shared history, my husband valued this friend and he wasn't likely to go anywhere. So I just let it go--gave up fighting with him about him or even commenting on it.
Almost a decade later, and my husband doesn't really hang out with the guy anymore. He kind of made an annoying fool out of himself at our wedding and eventually my husband got tired of his behavior and their friendship just started to fade away. And, because this was his choice, my husband feels respected, rather than infringed upon (which likely would have made him cling faster to the dude).
Now having gone through this, I think it's a really really good idea to not try to control another person's friendships. Because fundamentally, that's what your insecurities and arguments are communicating to your boyfriend: that you don't like this friends and don't want them around, that you want him to choose you, not them. You're giving him an ultimatum, even if you don't realize it. And that doesn't really create respect within a relationship.
I do want to address something else here, the fact that you're upset about the drinking/drug use behaviors of others. I have some friends who are like this, who will get angry at other people for behavior that really falls under the heading of "normal social drinking or drug use"--they throw tantrums when they see people doing shots at parties. I respect the fact that you don't want to use drugs yourself, and that you don't drink. I might even be fine with this sort of thing if you were getting annoyed at your boyfriend for doing these things, or if their behavior was somehow putting you in harm's way, either legally or otherwise (driving you around while drunk, using drugs at your house). But picking fights because people are talking about drug use is really unreasonable and controlling. You need to respect that other people make different choices than you and have a right to discuss their lives. Seriously.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:59 AM on April 6, 2011 [5 favorites]
Why do you think he is friends with them? Why isn't he setting more firm boundaries?
I was once on the other side of this equation - I was the one with crap friends and Mr. B was the one upset with the way they were treating me. It's a slightly different situation than yours, perhaps, but for him it wasn't a deal breaker -- and he helped me gain confidence and realise that I could make better friends and have stronger friendships. Like some of the posters above, I eventually realised that I wanted relationships that were more equal and interesting and have gradually distanced myself from some of the old 'friends'.
I don't think nagging is the best way to go about it - it sets a bad you vs. them atmosphere. Instead, I would suggest you work on building his self-esteem and modeling strong friendships. I'm still friends with some people that Mr. B isn't such a fan of (and I think it's good to have a few friends on your own), but I feel more confident, and we are both pretty happy at this point with our friends.
posted by brambory at 12:31 PM on April 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
I was once on the other side of this equation - I was the one with crap friends and Mr. B was the one upset with the way they were treating me. It's a slightly different situation than yours, perhaps, but for him it wasn't a deal breaker -- and he helped me gain confidence and realise that I could make better friends and have stronger friendships. Like some of the posters above, I eventually realised that I wanted relationships that were more equal and interesting and have gradually distanced myself from some of the old 'friends'.
I don't think nagging is the best way to go about it - it sets a bad you vs. them atmosphere. Instead, I would suggest you work on building his self-esteem and modeling strong friendships. I'm still friends with some people that Mr. B isn't such a fan of (and I think it's good to have a few friends on your own), but I feel more confident, and we are both pretty happy at this point with our friends.
posted by brambory at 12:31 PM on April 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
Ah! And I meant to add - in some cases, I haven't changed friends, just redirected the relationship. Perhaps it would be useful to focus less on the people themselves and more on the friendship dynamics (e.g. 'John is a very interesting person, I just wish he would make more of an effort to help you more considering how much you've been there for him').
posted by brambory at 12:35 PM on April 6, 2011
posted by brambory at 12:35 PM on April 6, 2011
It's definitely possible that once school comes to an end your boyfriend will eventually grow out of his friendships with a lot of the people in his group that you're not too fond of. That being said, there are no guarantees that this will happen. At the end of the day, these people are a part of his life and they are very important to him. It doesn't seem like he's putting them before you. So that's a good thing. You have two choices. One, accept him for who he is and who he's friends with. Two, flat out tell him that you disapprove of his friends because they use drugs and you're against drugs. Because of this you'd like him to stop being friends with them. While I'm not for SO's telling SO's who they can and can't hang out with, I'm giving this situation some different advice because of the drugs. If you're against drugs and he is regularly around drugs...that could be a make or break thing for your relationship. Again, do you want him in your life if that means his friends and the drugs are there? Or is this not acceptable to you? You decide. Hope this helps.
posted by ljs30 at 1:17 PM on April 6, 2011
posted by ljs30 at 1:17 PM on April 6, 2011
Not sure whether the 'same city' you two plan to work in is the same city you're in now, or some other city. If the latter, your problem might well go away. Otherwise, I'd want to get an idea how often he plans to hang with them, but I'd need to do it artfully, and I don't really know how I'd do that.
You wrote this:
For example, recently we had an argument over the way his best friend treated me in a particular situation, he just jumps to her defense without even considering my point of view first. But when I talk to him about something, he never jumps to my defense right away.
I just wanted to say that some people can't help but play devil's advocate. He might not jump to your defense right away when talking to you, but he might do so when talking to his friends. The question is whether this -- automatically playing devil's advocate all the time -- would annoy you too.
posted by troywestfield at 1:18 PM on April 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
You wrote this:
For example, recently we had an argument over the way his best friend treated me in a particular situation, he just jumps to her defense without even considering my point of view first. But when I talk to him about something, he never jumps to my defense right away.
I just wanted to say that some people can't help but play devil's advocate. He might not jump to your defense right away when talking to you, but he might do so when talking to his friends. The question is whether this -- automatically playing devil's advocate all the time -- would annoy you too.
posted by troywestfield at 1:18 PM on April 6, 2011 [2 favorites]
One of the Big Questions about a relationship is whether or not one partner can accept with relative equanimity aspects of their sweetie that they don't like. Riding along side of this is the (ahem) maturity and insight to know the difference between things you don't like as a matter of taste and things you don't like that have a direct bearing on the quality of your life.
I'm not sure from your post exactly how his partying friends affect you. No one is forcing you to go to a rave or pass a bong. If you don't like it, don't go and don't partake. Let him have fun with them and interfere only if that fun has a direct bearing on you. Besides, worrying about their influence on him makes you sound like a mom, not a girlfriend. His drug use is your business, theirs isn't.
I think you're going to run into a lot of resistance if you pressure him either obliquely or overtly to change his friends. It puts you in a decidedly parental role that is disrespectful of his autonomy and undermines the very maturity you seem to value since it implies that your judgment is better than his.
His doing more for his friends than they do in return is his choice. You can encourage him if he is bothered by this, but step back if he seems okay with it. Everyone has different standards for reciprocity. Trust him to adjust the scales when he sees fit.
As for defending you to his friends .....First make sure you don't put him in the position to have to defend them to you. Second, just ask - plainly and openly. 'Hey, I'm not going to bug you about your friends, but I need you to have my back if they bitch about me. Can you do that?" If he can't, then you are dealing with something that does have larger implications about your relationship.
posted by space_cookie at 1:21 PM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure from your post exactly how his partying friends affect you. No one is forcing you to go to a rave or pass a bong. If you don't like it, don't go and don't partake. Let him have fun with them and interfere only if that fun has a direct bearing on you. Besides, worrying about their influence on him makes you sound like a mom, not a girlfriend. His drug use is your business, theirs isn't.
I think you're going to run into a lot of resistance if you pressure him either obliquely or overtly to change his friends. It puts you in a decidedly parental role that is disrespectful of his autonomy and undermines the very maturity you seem to value since it implies that your judgment is better than his.
His doing more for his friends than they do in return is his choice. You can encourage him if he is bothered by this, but step back if he seems okay with it. Everyone has different standards for reciprocity. Trust him to adjust the scales when he sees fit.
As for defending you to his friends .....First make sure you don't put him in the position to have to defend them to you. Second, just ask - plainly and openly. 'Hey, I'm not going to bug you about your friends, but I need you to have my back if they bitch about me. Can you do that?" If he can't, then you are dealing with something that does have larger implications about your relationship.
posted by space_cookie at 1:21 PM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
If you don't like certain aspects of your boyfriend, like his okayness with drug use and interest in partying, that's about him, not his friends. He is the kind of person who chooses those kinds of people as his friends. It sounds like you have an idealized version of him, and you're trying to mold him into that. If he's as big of a pushover as you say, then you're probably succeeding, but these friends are keeping you from getting him there 100%. Think about how much you want to change a person and whether years down the line he will resent you for it.
If he's not the kind of person you can see yourself being with as he is, you should reconsider your eagerness for marriage to him in the near future.
posted by elpea at 1:22 PM on April 6, 2011 [3 favorites]
If he's not the kind of person you can see yourself being with as he is, you should reconsider your eagerness for marriage to him in the near future.
posted by elpea at 1:22 PM on April 6, 2011 [3 favorites]
This seems like a deal breaker. You will win this battle if you succeed in obliterating his social scene. Is it worth it?
posted by ovvl at 6:15 PM on April 6, 2011
posted by ovvl at 6:15 PM on April 6, 2011
It sucks to have your partner not really "on your side". Most people are either on their partner's sides or not, and never change. Believe me, it is 100000 times better to be with someone on your side, so please don't settle for less.
posted by meepmeow at 6:31 PM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by meepmeow at 6:31 PM on April 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm 36 and between ages 24 and 33 I went to many, many weddings every summer and fall, including my own. There were so many weddings I can't even count them all. And every wedding I went to was the same basically (all giddy and happy and bridal showers and stag parties, and pictures and dancing and happiness).
But then two things happened: (1) one of the giddy happy 2006 weddings? Yeah, the groom got cancer and died last year; (2) after my own giddy happy 2008 wedding, my mom had to be hospitalized and some various sundry other ensuing horrible things happened and I really needed my husband's support very early in our marriage in unexpected ways.
And I realized sitting at my friend's funeral last year four years after his giddy happy wedding and his wife's giddy happy bachelorette party in Vegas, that there's nothing in the giddy happy wedding stuff that really prepares you for what marriage is going to be like. If you get married at 30 you may spend the next fifty years together. That means that you'll go through unimaginably horrible and wonderful things together. Death, sickness, disability, infertility, childbirth, getting old, being unemployed, buying a house, losing a house, having a child, losing a child, having a miscarriage, unplanned pregnancy. All the messy stuff of life. And then after all of that, if the marriage is a "success" one of you will die first, and the other will have to carry on alone.
And I think throughout that 50 year period, the problems you have keep changing.
So I don't think the question is whether you can handle this particular problem (which to me really sounds like temporary and pretty minor -- most people don't party on forever and if you don't like his friends, you don't have to hang out with them. You are allowed to have separate friends) but whether this is the person you want to have by your side for all the problems to come.
posted by bananafish at 12:08 PM on April 7, 2011 [6 favorites]
But then two things happened: (1) one of the giddy happy 2006 weddings? Yeah, the groom got cancer and died last year; (2) after my own giddy happy 2008 wedding, my mom had to be hospitalized and some various sundry other ensuing horrible things happened and I really needed my husband's support very early in our marriage in unexpected ways.
And I realized sitting at my friend's funeral last year four years after his giddy happy wedding and his wife's giddy happy bachelorette party in Vegas, that there's nothing in the giddy happy wedding stuff that really prepares you for what marriage is going to be like. If you get married at 30 you may spend the next fifty years together. That means that you'll go through unimaginably horrible and wonderful things together. Death, sickness, disability, infertility, childbirth, getting old, being unemployed, buying a house, losing a house, having a child, losing a child, having a miscarriage, unplanned pregnancy. All the messy stuff of life. And then after all of that, if the marriage is a "success" one of you will die first, and the other will have to carry on alone.
And I think throughout that 50 year period, the problems you have keep changing.
So I don't think the question is whether you can handle this particular problem (which to me really sounds like temporary and pretty minor -- most people don't party on forever and if you don't like his friends, you don't have to hang out with them. You are allowed to have separate friends) but whether this is the person you want to have by your side for all the problems to come.
posted by bananafish at 12:08 PM on April 7, 2011 [6 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 9:41 AM on April 6, 2011 [2 favorites]