Stuck in an impossible dating dilemma: overhaul my entire self, or never have a relationship with a man?
December 7, 2010 6:08 PM Subscribe
Stuck in an impossible dating dilemma: overhaul my entire self, or never have a relationship with a man?
Well, there is another option: since I'm bisexual, I can stick to women. Problem is, I'm sexually much more attracted to men than to women. As luck/fate would have it, I'm saddled with a body type that's not particularly sought after by the vast majority of men (big arms w/small chest and a tendency to gain weight easily - I've considered getting implants, but can't afford them).
The easy answer would be working on my appearance in other ways, but I hate wearing makeup and don't enjoy shopping for clothes or wearing a sexy dress for the heck of it. I'd much rather be hanging out online, reading a book, or thinking about future career plans - all that girly stuff is just too time-consuming.
And then, every once in a while, I'll meet a guy I'm immensely attracted to, and I'll want to do all those things and more. Invariably, he's not interested in me. (It seems I can't do things halfway - either I really want something with every fiber of my being, or I don't.) Anyway, what's the use of doing something I hate every day for some hypothetical guy I don't know who may or may not break up with me after I've invested all this effort?
So there you have it. Two (maybe three) options, neither of which appeals to me. Which should I pick?
Well, there is another option: since I'm bisexual, I can stick to women. Problem is, I'm sexually much more attracted to men than to women. As luck/fate would have it, I'm saddled with a body type that's not particularly sought after by the vast majority of men (big arms w/small chest and a tendency to gain weight easily - I've considered getting implants, but can't afford them).
The easy answer would be working on my appearance in other ways, but I hate wearing makeup and don't enjoy shopping for clothes or wearing a sexy dress for the heck of it. I'd much rather be hanging out online, reading a book, or thinking about future career plans - all that girly stuff is just too time-consuming.
And then, every once in a while, I'll meet a guy I'm immensely attracted to, and I'll want to do all those things and more. Invariably, he's not interested in me. (It seems I can't do things halfway - either I really want something with every fiber of my being, or I don't.) Anyway, what's the use of doing something I hate every day for some hypothetical guy I don't know who may or may not break up with me after I've invested all this effort?
So there you have it. Two (maybe three) options, neither of which appeals to me. Which should I pick?
This is essentially the same as your last question, I doubt you're gonna get different responses.
I think it would be helpful for you to see a counsellor or someone about your self-image issues, these questions and the feelings driving them are bigger than a site like this can answer. Good luck.
posted by smoke at 6:14 PM on December 7, 2010 [6 favorites]
I think it would be helpful for you to see a counsellor or someone about your self-image issues, these questions and the feelings driving them are bigger than a site like this can answer. Good luck.
posted by smoke at 6:14 PM on December 7, 2010 [6 favorites]
i get really tired of hearing about people who complain that they don't have a partner and then refuse to do the work to achieve that goal.
i had a friend once who was felt that she shouldn't have to get dressed up or made up or make sure she was physically fit; that her intellect and personality should be enough. we don't live in that world. we do live in a world where packaging matters—and as a fellow graphic designer, she should have been well aware of that. a;; things being equal—i.e.: the product inside was the same—would you rather buy a product that was packaged in a worn, unattractive box, or one that was neatly and attractively packaged? i know which one i would pick.
i'm not saying to go out and get fake boobs and were gobs of makeup, and only spend your time on artifical pursuits. i am saying (that at a minimum) to make sure you dress nicely, if not stylishly; put on some tinted moisturizer, blush, and mascara; get a nice hairstyle, eat healthily and do some sort of exercise so that you are fit and toned. yes, these things take up some time, but they do not take up all your time. it's lazy to say that all that girly stuff is just too time-consuming while you sit there for hours in front of a computer cruising the 'nets. why don't you spend an hour "thinking about your future career plans" while you are running?
i would expect my partner to make an effort to look good and i would hope he would expect the same of me as well.
that said, obviously, it's not all about one's physical attributes. but if i had to choose between the funny, smart, awesome guy who also made an effort to look good and the funny, smart, awesome guy who couldn't be bothered? no contest.
posted by violetk at 6:28 PM on December 7, 2010 [24 favorites]
i had a friend once who was felt that she shouldn't have to get dressed up or made up or make sure she was physically fit; that her intellect and personality should be enough. we don't live in that world. we do live in a world where packaging matters—and as a fellow graphic designer, she should have been well aware of that. a;; things being equal—i.e.: the product inside was the same—would you rather buy a product that was packaged in a worn, unattractive box, or one that was neatly and attractively packaged? i know which one i would pick.
i'm not saying to go out and get fake boobs and were gobs of makeup, and only spend your time on artifical pursuits. i am saying (that at a minimum) to make sure you dress nicely, if not stylishly; put on some tinted moisturizer, blush, and mascara; get a nice hairstyle, eat healthily and do some sort of exercise so that you are fit and toned. yes, these things take up some time, but they do not take up all your time. it's lazy to say that all that girly stuff is just too time-consuming while you sit there for hours in front of a computer cruising the 'nets. why don't you spend an hour "thinking about your future career plans" while you are running?
i would expect my partner to make an effort to look good and i would hope he would expect the same of me as well.
that said, obviously, it's not all about one's physical attributes. but if i had to choose between the funny, smart, awesome guy who also made an effort to look good and the funny, smart, awesome guy who couldn't be bothered? no contest.
posted by violetk at 6:28 PM on December 7, 2010 [24 favorites]
It sounds like you're not really interested in the efforts involved in presenting yourself, unless you have a reason to do it (by which time it's often too late).
You're not alone in this, but there is another way that is quite popular - have other reasons to improve or maintain your presentation that you can be enthusiastic about, and don't depend on whether you have your eye on someone. The idea is that then it's no longer a chore, or an overhaul, it's just another part of you.
Some people decide to look sharp for work/career, and sharp is not the same as sexy, but it has the same positive effects - making you more eye-catching and sought-after outside of work too.
A lot of people I know are into dance, or ballroom competitions as a hobby/sport, and just being in those kinds of community where presentation skills are second nature to so many, some of it rubs off and becomes natural. Constantly being around people who do something really well is IMO the easiest way to osmotically acquire those habits without effort.
posted by -harlequin- at 6:35 PM on December 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
You're not alone in this, but there is another way that is quite popular - have other reasons to improve or maintain your presentation that you can be enthusiastic about, and don't depend on whether you have your eye on someone. The idea is that then it's no longer a chore, or an overhaul, it's just another part of you.
Some people decide to look sharp for work/career, and sharp is not the same as sexy, but it has the same positive effects - making you more eye-catching and sought-after outside of work too.
A lot of people I know are into dance, or ballroom competitions as a hobby/sport, and just being in those kinds of community where presentation skills are second nature to so many, some of it rubs off and becomes natural. Constantly being around people who do something really well is IMO the easiest way to osmotically acquire those habits without effort.
posted by -harlequin- at 6:35 PM on December 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure where this all-or-nothing approach is coming from. Contrary to the experiences of the poster above, I have a chronic skin problem that is, uh, kinda gross when it's at its worst, and also prevents me from wearing cosmetics entirely most of the time, and I'm overweight, and I'm definitely not built like a plus-sized model or anything to mitigate that, and I really don't pay overmuch attention to my clothes or anything else... and I have never gone without a boyfriend except by choice. I mean, like, maybe a couple weeks between dates or something, but never anything excessive.
But that's a boyfriend in general, not necessarily some specific guy. If the guys you always want are the sorts who spend a lot of time and effort on their appearance, yes, they're probably looking for that. But if your inclination is to want to play on the computer and read and not worry about all that stuff, do you really want to be going out with someone whose idea of fun is going running and who spends more on his hair than you do on yours? Or is that just where your eyes draw you and you don't know them well enough to know any more than that?
There are lots of guys in the world who have lots of lovely qualities who are out there bemoaning the same problems because they are not physically perfect. If you demand physical perfection or anything close to it, yeah, it gets expected of you in return. But if you just go around looking for a guy who's smart and funny and likes the same movies and books you like, chances are very good that you can find someone very worth being around who does not need you to get implants or wear makeup to be happy with you.
posted by gracedissolved at 6:41 PM on December 7, 2010 [18 favorites]
But that's a boyfriend in general, not necessarily some specific guy. If the guys you always want are the sorts who spend a lot of time and effort on their appearance, yes, they're probably looking for that. But if your inclination is to want to play on the computer and read and not worry about all that stuff, do you really want to be going out with someone whose idea of fun is going running and who spends more on his hair than you do on yours? Or is that just where your eyes draw you and you don't know them well enough to know any more than that?
There are lots of guys in the world who have lots of lovely qualities who are out there bemoaning the same problems because they are not physically perfect. If you demand physical perfection or anything close to it, yeah, it gets expected of you in return. But if you just go around looking for a guy who's smart and funny and likes the same movies and books you like, chances are very good that you can find someone very worth being around who does not need you to get implants or wear makeup to be happy with you.
posted by gracedissolved at 6:41 PM on December 7, 2010 [18 favorites]
Huh. I disagree with violetk. While presenting yourself well (as harlequin described) is one thing, I don't think it's necessary to wear makeup and girly sorts of things like that. There are plenty of girls who don't wear makeup, stay true to their au naturel selves, and yet manage to find a guy, and you would be far, far, far from the first woman to do it. Maybe you just need to rethink the type of guy you are pursuing.
posted by naoko at 6:42 PM on December 7, 2010 [11 favorites]
posted by naoko at 6:42 PM on December 7, 2010 [11 favorites]
but I hate wearing makeup and don't enjoy shopping for clothes or wearing a sexy dress for the heck of it. I'd much rather be hanging out online, reading a book, or thinking about future career plansBelieve it or not, there are men who would rather date an ordinary looking girl who reads than a model who doesn't.
But looks do matter, as previous commenters have noted. You're gonna have to put some effort into looking your best. But make it your best. You don't need surgery to look good, you don't need to spend a year's salary on clothes, and you don't need to spend hours applying makeup.
Speaking personally, nine times out of ten I'd rather be with a girl who's wearing jeans and a T-shirt, with light to no makeup, than the more girly alternatives. When I was in school, before formal events, I was always amazed to see how much effort girls would go through, just to come out looking less good than they did during class the day before.
The other point: You're not doing all this just to attract guys--after all, no matter how much effort you put in, there's no guarantee that anyone will notice and appreciate it. You're doing it for you, so you can be proud of what you see in the mirror. Once you're pleased with how you look, that will build your self-confidence, which is valuable in it's own right.
posted by JDHarper at 6:58 PM on December 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
i want to clarify (as well as further emphasize), that i am not suggesting the OP do a 180 and glam herself up. but do enough to be, as they say, "you, only better" (cliché and barf, but it works here). despite being quite girly and very interested in fashion, i don't wear a lot of makeup at all, but i can tell you that even a little makeup makes me 100x cuter, and therefore, that makes me feel 100x more confident about myself.
taking an interest in your presentation is not superficial; it will help you feel better about yourself and your situation. the friend i mentioned in my previous post was always amazed at how much better she looked when she allowed me to put some make up on her (and believe me, i didn't use a lot because i wanted to be true to who she was) and style her up. she did look prettier and that made her feel better and she felt more confident. why wouldn't you want to feel that every day?
posted by violetk at 7:12 PM on December 7, 2010
taking an interest in your presentation is not superficial; it will help you feel better about yourself and your situation. the friend i mentioned in my previous post was always amazed at how much better she looked when she allowed me to put some make up on her (and believe me, i didn't use a lot because i wanted to be true to who she was) and style her up. she did look prettier and that made her feel better and she felt more confident. why wouldn't you want to feel that every day?
posted by violetk at 7:12 PM on December 7, 2010
You know, it's really easy to say, "It must be the way I dress/how fat I am/my hairstyle/my wonky teeth/my big nose" and give up on dating because that's "just the way I am." This has the added bonus of self-perpetuating any attitudes that you might hold about a wide swath of people whom you think are probably judging you.
It's much more difficult -- but much more necessary -- to look critically at the parts of yourself that aren't visible and ask what's wonky with THEM.
I am a schlubby, overweight nerd who wears shirts that don't cover her stomach and jeans that sag to mid-thigh. I'm clingy and loud and gassy to boot. In the last ten years, I have had three good-looking, smart, complex partners and never been single for more than a month. They all pursued me. (Clearly, I am hot stuff.)
It is very true that there are people out there who will be rude to "people like you" for things you can't control, or who are not attracted to "people like you" (for whatever definition that might hold). But when I see the gorgeous, ugly, weird, loving, dysfunctional, supportive, perfectly matched, supposedly mismatched, incredible array of couples out there in the world, I am convinced that everyone has somebody for them out there -- but you can't show someone else how to properly love and respect you until you love and respect yourself first.
So please forgive me here, but it couldn't POSSIBLY be your sparkling personality.
posted by Madamina at 7:12 PM on December 7, 2010 [11 favorites]
It's much more difficult -- but much more necessary -- to look critically at the parts of yourself that aren't visible and ask what's wonky with THEM.
I am a schlubby, overweight nerd who wears shirts that don't cover her stomach and jeans that sag to mid-thigh. I'm clingy and loud and gassy to boot. In the last ten years, I have had three good-looking, smart, complex partners and never been single for more than a month. They all pursued me. (Clearly, I am hot stuff.)
It is very true that there are people out there who will be rude to "people like you" for things you can't control, or who are not attracted to "people like you" (for whatever definition that might hold). But when I see the gorgeous, ugly, weird, loving, dysfunctional, supportive, perfectly matched, supposedly mismatched, incredible array of couples out there in the world, I am convinced that everyone has somebody for them out there -- but you can't show someone else how to properly love and respect you until you love and respect yourself first.
So please forgive me here, but it couldn't POSSIBLY be your sparkling personality.
posted by Madamina at 7:12 PM on December 7, 2010 [11 favorites]
(Lord. I just now reread your previous posts, and I see that you've got Asperger's. That makes my last comment sound REALLY heartless.
I made that comment, though, because I've seen it so often. It frustrates me to my core. To some degree, relationships -- or at least the work we have to do within ourselves to relate to others -- SHOULD be hard, and SHOULD require a degree of risk, because they pay off in so, so many ways. Don't prejudge yourself and show others how they should treat you before they can make up their own minds.
And having Asperger's doesn't mean that you can't navigate the nuances of personal relationships and communication as well as anyone else; it just means that you have to come at it from different angles -- angles that make sense for you.
The rest of my comment still stands.)
posted by Madamina at 7:22 PM on December 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
I made that comment, though, because I've seen it so often. It frustrates me to my core. To some degree, relationships -- or at least the work we have to do within ourselves to relate to others -- SHOULD be hard, and SHOULD require a degree of risk, because they pay off in so, so many ways. Don't prejudge yourself and show others how they should treat you before they can make up their own minds.
And having Asperger's doesn't mean that you can't navigate the nuances of personal relationships and communication as well as anyone else; it just means that you have to come at it from different angles -- angles that make sense for you.
The rest of my comment still stands.)
posted by Madamina at 7:22 PM on December 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
I agree that this all-or-nothing thinking is what's creating this "impossible dilemma," not actually the circumstances at hand. It is, after all, entirely possible to spend some time on presenting yourself AND ALSO read books, make career plans, etc. The vast majority of people who wear a little makeup or buy clothes suit their body type or take a yoga class do not actually spend all their waking hours on these pursuits to the expense of everything else in their lives.
I say this not so much to insist that you should wear makeup (for example), but rather to urge you to reconsider this mindset of putting things into these black-and-white categories -- it's not realistic, it's not healthy in terms of your self-image, and in a certain way it absolves you of the responsibility of having to take any responsibility or make any new choices in your day-to-day life. There is a vast middle ground of options available to you between DO NOTHING and TOTAL OVERHAUL.
posted by scody at 7:30 PM on December 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
I say this not so much to insist that you should wear makeup (for example), but rather to urge you to reconsider this mindset of putting things into these black-and-white categories -- it's not realistic, it's not healthy in terms of your self-image, and in a certain way it absolves you of the responsibility of having to take any responsibility or make any new choices in your day-to-day life. There is a vast middle ground of options available to you between DO NOTHING and TOTAL OVERHAUL.
posted by scody at 7:30 PM on December 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
I know this is such a cliche around here, but after reading your other questions I would suggest psychotherapy. You mention that you have Asperger's and not much experience with relationships. I bet your current conundrum has nothing to do with your height, weight, hair, teeth or lack of make up. Therapy is just the place to practice making and keeping relationships. It's heartbreaking to hear your thinking that you need to get breast implants in order to get another human being to be attracted to you. Of course, it's possible that therapy will initiate an internal "overhaul of self" for you. Still, this overhaul won't be for some hypothetical guy but for yourself.
If you decide to give it a try, here is one locator of psychologists by area, select "interpersonal relationships" in the pull down menu.
posted by Shusha at 7:47 PM on December 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you decide to give it a try, here is one locator of psychologists by area, select "interpersonal relationships" in the pull down menu.
posted by Shusha at 7:47 PM on December 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you want to be fit/dressy you (as you define it) when you meet a guy you want to bone, then you need to put in the effort to be fit/dressy you before you meet this guy.
posted by J. Wilson at 8:08 PM on December 7, 2010
posted by J. Wilson at 8:08 PM on December 7, 2010
Just as a data point I want to say that I'm short, fat, love to read, wear glasses, never wear makeup. I was like that when I met my hubby. He loves me as I am.
posted by BlahLaLa at 8:12 PM on December 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by BlahLaLa at 8:12 PM on December 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
either I really want something with every fiber of my being, or I don't.
I'm sorry to put this so harshly but...did you mean every fiber of your being beyond just appearances? I wonder if you're setting up a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy with these guys to whom you're so attracted, since you don't mention what's so attractive beyond their looks.
Meanwhile, there's a whole lot of variation in what different men find attractive in a partner. Sure, certain characteristics might be a sure-fire way to turn a man's head on the street, but how high those qualities rank for a relationship are usually a different story.
posted by desuetude at 8:14 PM on December 7, 2010
I'm sorry to put this so harshly but...did you mean every fiber of your being beyond just appearances? I wonder if you're setting up a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy with these guys to whom you're so attracted, since you don't mention what's so attractive beyond their looks.
Meanwhile, there's a whole lot of variation in what different men find attractive in a partner. Sure, certain characteristics might be a sure-fire way to turn a man's head on the street, but how high those qualities rank for a relationship are usually a different story.
posted by desuetude at 8:14 PM on December 7, 2010
Response by poster: violetk said:
i'm not saying to go out and get fake boobs and were gobs of makeup, and only spend your time on artifical pursuits. i am saying (that at a minimum) to make sure you dress nicely, if not stylishly; put on some tinted moisturizer, blush, and mascara; get a nice hairstyle, eat healthily and do some sort of exercise so that you are fit and toned. yes, these things take up some time, but they do not take up all your time. it's lazy to say that all that girly stuff is just too time-consuming while you sit there for hours in front of a computer cruising the 'nets. why don't you spend an hour "thinking about your future career plans" while you are running?
Actually, I do eat reasonably well and exercise regularly to keep myself in shape (lots of walking, and just bought a great used stationary bike off craigslist), although I'm not always consistent month-to-month (I love my junk food). Maybe I phrased "girly stuff" a little negatively. I don't see anything wrong with makeup, stylish clothes etc., it's just not for me.
madamina: I thought you were just taking the "tough love" approach. Thanks for clarifying, though. It helps to know there's overweight female nerds like me who have no problem getting guys!
By the way, I do take care of my appearance to a certain extent (neaten up my hair every morning, put on lotion, apply deodorant, and wear solid colors that look good with my skin tone). Flirting is a problem for me - I never figured it out, and I'm not sure if my brain can figure it out. I have had a few guys temporarily interested in me, and I'm not necessarily interested in "the hottest guy in the room". Other than the fact that I'm very comfortable with my own space, is the flirting issue the only thing holding me back?
posted by tamagogirl at 8:17 PM on December 7, 2010
i'm not saying to go out and get fake boobs and were gobs of makeup, and only spend your time on artifical pursuits. i am saying (that at a minimum) to make sure you dress nicely, if not stylishly; put on some tinted moisturizer, blush, and mascara; get a nice hairstyle, eat healthily and do some sort of exercise so that you are fit and toned. yes, these things take up some time, but they do not take up all your time. it's lazy to say that all that girly stuff is just too time-consuming while you sit there for hours in front of a computer cruising the 'nets. why don't you spend an hour "thinking about your future career plans" while you are running?
Actually, I do eat reasonably well and exercise regularly to keep myself in shape (lots of walking, and just bought a great used stationary bike off craigslist), although I'm not always consistent month-to-month (I love my junk food). Maybe I phrased "girly stuff" a little negatively. I don't see anything wrong with makeup, stylish clothes etc., it's just not for me.
madamina: I thought you were just taking the "tough love" approach. Thanks for clarifying, though. It helps to know there's overweight female nerds like me who have no problem getting guys!
By the way, I do take care of my appearance to a certain extent (neaten up my hair every morning, put on lotion, apply deodorant, and wear solid colors that look good with my skin tone). Flirting is a problem for me - I never figured it out, and I'm not sure if my brain can figure it out. I have had a few guys temporarily interested in me, and I'm not necessarily interested in "the hottest guy in the room". Other than the fact that I'm very comfortable with my own space, is the flirting issue the only thing holding me back?
posted by tamagogirl at 8:17 PM on December 7, 2010
Have you thought about dating another Aspie, by chance?
Many of my family members have Aspie-like characteristics (undiagnosed, but I'm pretty sure they are), and they all have the same attitude you do about trying to dress to attract a lover to be a lot of trouble, and that they should be accepted for who they are. They have all found partners who accept them and are in loving relationships (not necessarily with other Aspies, though; sometimes opposites attract).
Have you visited the Wrong Planet web forums? It might be a good place to start finding a guy who won't judge you for not being girly, and will be cool with your virginity.
And therapy can't hurt, either. Confidence is sexier than any little black dress.
posted by xenophile at 8:21 PM on December 7, 2010
Many of my family members have Aspie-like characteristics (undiagnosed, but I'm pretty sure they are), and they all have the same attitude you do about trying to dress to attract a lover to be a lot of trouble, and that they should be accepted for who they are. They have all found partners who accept them and are in loving relationships (not necessarily with other Aspies, though; sometimes opposites attract).
Have you visited the Wrong Planet web forums? It might be a good place to start finding a guy who won't judge you for not being girly, and will be cool with your virginity.
And therapy can't hurt, either. Confidence is sexier than any little black dress.
posted by xenophile at 8:21 PM on December 7, 2010
Try this: Next time you're in a busy public place, look out for male-female couples and pay attention to the women. Some of them will be dressed fashionably, others won't; some will be wearing makeup, others won't. They'll come in all sorts of body sizes, and they'll span the whole range of chest measurements. The only thing they'll have in common as a group is that they're currently involved with a man. And next time you catch yourself thinking that breast implants would Fix The Problem, remember all the small-chested women you see in relationships with men all the time, and tell yourself "Wow, there's something seriously messed up about a fashion and beauty industry that's got me thinking I need to look a certain way for men to like me."
posted by Catseye at 12:10 AM on December 8, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by Catseye at 12:10 AM on December 8, 2010 [6 favorites]
You know, I'm a guy and I don't have anything particularly awesome to say, but it seems to me it might help you (regarding the flirting thing you mentioned) to keep in mind that guys are kind of like wild animals:
Generally, we're more scared of you than you are of us, and we make a lot of noise to make us seem scary but it's really just about protection. Also, if we are too friendly there is probably something wrong with us and you should stay away.
posted by dubitable at 5:55 AM on December 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
Generally, we're more scared of you than you are of us, and we make a lot of noise to make us seem scary but it's really just about protection. Also, if we are too friendly there is probably something wrong with us and you should stay away.
posted by dubitable at 5:55 AM on December 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
I really feel for you, because it's easy to get the message from popular culture that only a very small subset of women who look and act a certain way are "worthy" of male attention.
But that's just flat-out not true. (I love that you had the very Engineer Syndrome idea of "fixing" yourself by getting breast implants, though.)
I have no idea how to flirt, either--which is something my husband (and several of my exes) found attractive rather than the reverse.
Broaden your pool of new acquaintances, so that you'll meet more guys that you find attractive. Work on developing self-confidence (and believe me, I know that's not simple). Talk to the people you know who are in happy relationships about how they found each other (but don't quiz them too intently, because many people find that off-putting).
i am saying (that at a minimum) to make sure you dress nicely, if not stylishly; put on some tinted moisturizer, blush, and mascara
I don't want to diss violetk's makeup choices for herself, because I'm sure they are lovely on her, but I have to say that "tinted moisturizer, blush, and mascara" are not a universal minimum daily requirement of makeup. I didn't wear any of these at my wedding, even!
You will never have confidence about your appearance if you don't feel great about what you're wearing, from clothing to hairstyle to makeup if any. If makeup doesn't work for you, don't do it. If skirts and dresses don't work for you, rock the pants and jeans that make you feel fantastic!
posted by Sidhedevil at 8:04 AM on December 8, 2010
But that's just flat-out not true. (I love that you had the very Engineer Syndrome idea of "fixing" yourself by getting breast implants, though.)
I have no idea how to flirt, either--which is something my husband (and several of my exes) found attractive rather than the reverse.
Broaden your pool of new acquaintances, so that you'll meet more guys that you find attractive. Work on developing self-confidence (and believe me, I know that's not simple). Talk to the people you know who are in happy relationships about how they found each other (but don't quiz them too intently, because many people find that off-putting).
i am saying (that at a minimum) to make sure you dress nicely, if not stylishly; put on some tinted moisturizer, blush, and mascara
I don't want to diss violetk's makeup choices for herself, because I'm sure they are lovely on her, but I have to say that "tinted moisturizer, blush, and mascara" are not a universal minimum daily requirement of makeup. I didn't wear any of these at my wedding, even!
You will never have confidence about your appearance if you don't feel great about what you're wearing, from clothing to hairstyle to makeup if any. If makeup doesn't work for you, don't do it. If skirts and dresses don't work for you, rock the pants and jeans that make you feel fantastic!
posted by Sidhedevil at 8:04 AM on December 8, 2010
Why is it easier to find women you can date? You feel like they don't judge your weight or boob size? I wonder if that gives you more confidence generally... There are men who aren't entirely focused on the "packaging"...
i get really tired of hearing about people who complain that they don't have a partner and then refuse to do the work to achieve that goal.
i had a friend once who was felt that she shouldn't have to get dressed up or made up or make sure she was physically fit; that her intellect and personality should be enough. we don't live in that world. we do live in a world where packaging matters—and as a fellow graphic designer, she should have been well aware of that. a;; things being equal—i.e.: the product inside was the same—would you rather buy a product that was packaged in a worn, unattractive box, or one that was neatly and attractively packaged? i know which one i would pick.
Well, the "product" within is never exactly the same when you're talking about human beings. Plus, I always buy the cheapo, plain-packaged version when we're talking about identical products, since it costs less. I guess the analogy would be that a woman who thinks she's put in the work and that packaging matters might be "high maintenance" - there could be emotional and time costs there, that a more easy-going partner, who doesn't care that much about how her hair looks, won't come with. (For instance, he can notice there's an event going on that starts in half an hour, and you guys can run out the door, since no one has to spend 40 minutes in the bathroom prepping for a public appearance...)
tamagogirl, I think being comfortable with who you are is the most important step. If a guy isn't interested because you aren't girly enough, he's not your dude. There are guys out there who like all sorts of women. Obviously, there are degrees of everything, so you could always try adding a little more sexiness to your repertoire, without overhauling your entire self, but try to do it as a fun experiment, and just something little, like a new hairstyle or some lipstick, that makes you feel a little more confident.
What's most important is that it makes you feel better, so if you feel burdened or uncomfortable, e.g., wearing a skirt, then don't do it! Be yourself, but also feel free to explore parts of yourself you don't know that well yet.
posted by mdn at 8:25 AM on December 8, 2010
i get really tired of hearing about people who complain that they don't have a partner and then refuse to do the work to achieve that goal.
i had a friend once who was felt that she shouldn't have to get dressed up or made up or make sure she was physically fit; that her intellect and personality should be enough. we don't live in that world. we do live in a world where packaging matters—and as a fellow graphic designer, she should have been well aware of that. a;; things being equal—i.e.: the product inside was the same—would you rather buy a product that was packaged in a worn, unattractive box, or one that was neatly and attractively packaged? i know which one i would pick.
Well, the "product" within is never exactly the same when you're talking about human beings. Plus, I always buy the cheapo, plain-packaged version when we're talking about identical products, since it costs less. I guess the analogy would be that a woman who thinks she's put in the work and that packaging matters might be "high maintenance" - there could be emotional and time costs there, that a more easy-going partner, who doesn't care that much about how her hair looks, won't come with. (For instance, he can notice there's an event going on that starts in half an hour, and you guys can run out the door, since no one has to spend 40 minutes in the bathroom prepping for a public appearance...)
tamagogirl, I think being comfortable with who you are is the most important step. If a guy isn't interested because you aren't girly enough, he's not your dude. There are guys out there who like all sorts of women. Obviously, there are degrees of everything, so you could always try adding a little more sexiness to your repertoire, without overhauling your entire self, but try to do it as a fun experiment, and just something little, like a new hairstyle or some lipstick, that makes you feel a little more confident.
What's most important is that it makes you feel better, so if you feel burdened or uncomfortable, e.g., wearing a skirt, then don't do it! Be yourself, but also feel free to explore parts of yourself you don't know that well yet.
posted by mdn at 8:25 AM on December 8, 2010
I'm at work at the moment, so I don't have time to post all my thoughts right now, but:
(1) By the standards of the US media / celebrity culture / whatever I'm totally weird looking, but, uh, not to toot my own horn or anything, I'm also totally awesome. Furthermore, I am confident that you are also totally awesome (and smart and skilled and interesting and funny).
So, while I wholeheartedly agree with the advice to learn to emphasize your best features, I also think you should keep in mind that your best features aren't necessarily your physical features. By all means learn to use eyeliner if wearing eyeliner will help you feel awesome / confident, but also think about ways to play up and communicate all of the fantastic non-physical qualities that you posses.
My overwhelmingly positive experiences with men have convinced me that they, and, indeed, most human beings I meet, seem to be much more interested in my cool hobbies, funny stories, odd childhood, off the cuff jokes, etc. than my "good features" (great hair, full lips) or "bad features" (big arms, weird nose, belly). Anyway, I know this sounds like a platitude, and while it may not lead you directly into a perfect relationship, if you explore what you love, and what you love about yourself, you're bound to be a happier and more fulfilled person. And, at least to me, happiness and fulfillment are very attractive qualities in a potential partner.
(2) Flirting is tricky! I'm not sure if this is helpful, but I've seen the SIRC "Guide to Flirting" recommended on AskMetafilter before, and a quick skim makes me think that it might be right up your alley.
posted by cimton at 11:09 AM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
(1) By the standards of the US media / celebrity culture / whatever I'm totally weird looking, but, uh, not to toot my own horn or anything, I'm also totally awesome. Furthermore, I am confident that you are also totally awesome (and smart and skilled and interesting and funny).
So, while I wholeheartedly agree with the advice to learn to emphasize your best features, I also think you should keep in mind that your best features aren't necessarily your physical features. By all means learn to use eyeliner if wearing eyeliner will help you feel awesome / confident, but also think about ways to play up and communicate all of the fantastic non-physical qualities that you posses.
My overwhelmingly positive experiences with men have convinced me that they, and, indeed, most human beings I meet, seem to be much more interested in my cool hobbies, funny stories, odd childhood, off the cuff jokes, etc. than my "good features" (great hair, full lips) or "bad features" (big arms, weird nose, belly). Anyway, I know this sounds like a platitude, and while it may not lead you directly into a perfect relationship, if you explore what you love, and what you love about yourself, you're bound to be a happier and more fulfilled person. And, at least to me, happiness and fulfillment are very attractive qualities in a potential partner.
(2) Flirting is tricky! I'm not sure if this is helpful, but I've seen the SIRC "Guide to Flirting" recommended on AskMetafilter before, and a quick skim makes me think that it might be right up your alley.
posted by cimton at 11:09 AM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't know if you're brave enough for this (I don't even know that *I'd* be brave enough for this!), but would you be comfortable putting up a "this is me on a typical day" picture? I know I would be willing to toss out a couple of outfit or style suggestions that I think might be helpful and still fit into the general area of your "comfort zone" style of clothing, and it's possible there are others who would be willing to help out as well, saving you some of the dreaded clothes shopping. As for myself, I love doing the girly skirt thing, but I have no problem putting together outfits with jeans and a sweater that make me feel sexy, too. And as several people have already mentioned, confidence... FEELING sexy... is worth so much more than just looking sexy.
posted by Clytie at 12:47 PM on December 8, 2010
posted by Clytie at 12:47 PM on December 8, 2010
I do take care of my appearance to a certain extent...wear solid colors that look good with my skin tone
It's not just the color, the cut and fit of even a tshirt and jeans can make a big difference in how you are perceived. I'm not sure it's even so much how you look as that some things come off more as that you are interested in meeting men. Certain hairstyles and clothing are typically worn by women who want to meet other women, and men would assume someone presenting themselves that way would not be interested in meeting a man.
By cut and fit, I'm talking about things like a baggy men's style tshirt versus a closer fitting "cute" style of women's fitted tshirt that might have a v neck or scoop neck. Even in the same color, these will leave a different impression with people. It's not necessary to spend much, Target has a good selection of women's tshirts and they go on sale often. If you have trouble picking something yourself, you can hire the services of a personal shopper to help you. Likewise, there are many different styles of jeans; some will look more "conservative", some will look more "sexy" or "cute" on you. Find a brand and style that also fits in a flattering way and buy several pairs, if you take care not to wear them out (I don't wear my nice jeans for things like cleaning out the sewer lines, for example) you won't have to shop for more for some time.
Also, you need to have a bra that fits well. Some stores will fit you if you don't know how to do this. Buy 3 or 4 of that bra. Wear it when you try on other tops.
Some jewelry like earrings that dangle just a half inch or so below your ears or a necklace can also be good to add, especially if there is something interesting about it that someone who approaches you can ask about. If you have plain tshirts there should be something more unique about the jewelry. Etsy.com is a good place to find things like that. Try searching for "geek jewelry" on there, or look at the featured sellers.
You can shop for clothes online too, but it's not a good way to get a flattering pair of jeans unless you already know the brand, style, and size. There are custom fit jeans sites, but I haven't tried those. There's a lot of ask questions about clothing that will have shopping links if you don't want to go to stores.
Most women in their 20's don't need to wear makeup to look good. If you want to look good in your 30's make sure that moisturizer you're putting on has sunscreen in it. Some men prefer makeup, but they will expect you to wear it all the time. Many men don't notice if a woman is wearing subtle makeup or not.
Other than the fact that I'm very comfortable with my own space, is the flirting issue the only thing holding me back?
Frankly, people tell me I look attractive, and I feel that I suck at flirting, and I'm terrible at meeting men. I don't think you should put a huge amount of effort into your appearance, as it really does not matter as much as you are thinking it does -- just a little effort. YES, the flirting issue is definitely holding you back. I don't know if that's the only thing -- maybe you don't meet many men online and reading books?
As far as whether the guy is attracted, it's pretty much a crapshoot, the usual strategy seems to be to meet more people. Probabilities, repeated trials, etc. A numbers game. This will take a lot more time than buying some clothes. It is possible to do parts of it online if you want to go that route though.
Thinking about what you've said about clothing, and given that you are considering some expensive surgery, you might consider a personal shopper or an image consultant.
posted by yohko at 6:31 PM on December 8, 2010
It's not just the color, the cut and fit of even a tshirt and jeans can make a big difference in how you are perceived. I'm not sure it's even so much how you look as that some things come off more as that you are interested in meeting men. Certain hairstyles and clothing are typically worn by women who want to meet other women, and men would assume someone presenting themselves that way would not be interested in meeting a man.
By cut and fit, I'm talking about things like a baggy men's style tshirt versus a closer fitting "cute" style of women's fitted tshirt that might have a v neck or scoop neck. Even in the same color, these will leave a different impression with people. It's not necessary to spend much, Target has a good selection of women's tshirts and they go on sale often. If you have trouble picking something yourself, you can hire the services of a personal shopper to help you. Likewise, there are many different styles of jeans; some will look more "conservative", some will look more "sexy" or "cute" on you. Find a brand and style that also fits in a flattering way and buy several pairs, if you take care not to wear them out (I don't wear my nice jeans for things like cleaning out the sewer lines, for example) you won't have to shop for more for some time.
Also, you need to have a bra that fits well. Some stores will fit you if you don't know how to do this. Buy 3 or 4 of that bra. Wear it when you try on other tops.
Some jewelry like earrings that dangle just a half inch or so below your ears or a necklace can also be good to add, especially if there is something interesting about it that someone who approaches you can ask about. If you have plain tshirts there should be something more unique about the jewelry. Etsy.com is a good place to find things like that. Try searching for "geek jewelry" on there, or look at the featured sellers.
You can shop for clothes online too, but it's not a good way to get a flattering pair of jeans unless you already know the brand, style, and size. There are custom fit jeans sites, but I haven't tried those. There's a lot of ask questions about clothing that will have shopping links if you don't want to go to stores.
Most women in their 20's don't need to wear makeup to look good. If you want to look good in your 30's make sure that moisturizer you're putting on has sunscreen in it. Some men prefer makeup, but they will expect you to wear it all the time. Many men don't notice if a woman is wearing subtle makeup or not.
Other than the fact that I'm very comfortable with my own space, is the flirting issue the only thing holding me back?
Frankly, people tell me I look attractive, and I feel that I suck at flirting, and I'm terrible at meeting men. I don't think you should put a huge amount of effort into your appearance, as it really does not matter as much as you are thinking it does -- just a little effort. YES, the flirting issue is definitely holding you back. I don't know if that's the only thing -- maybe you don't meet many men online and reading books?
As far as whether the guy is attracted, it's pretty much a crapshoot, the usual strategy seems to be to meet more people. Probabilities, repeated trials, etc. A numbers game. This will take a lot more time than buying some clothes. It is possible to do parts of it online if you want to go that route though.
Thinking about what you've said about clothing, and given that you are considering some expensive surgery, you might consider a personal shopper or an image consultant.
posted by yohko at 6:31 PM on December 8, 2010
I wouldn't bother with psychotherapy. What I would suggest is taking some acting classes at a minimum. I'd get a life coach, too.
That is, if you want a different outcome. What's odd about your assumptions, to me, isn't that you assume you have to become "sexy" in some stereotyped way, or that you have too much else you'd rather do. It's that you seem to be saying: well, I'm attractive to women, but I'd rather have a man, but in order to get one I'd have to sell out (whatever the precise meaning of that is).
I wonder if what's really bothering you is that you think you'll find yourself in a power dynamic which puts you in a one-down position, somehow, and which isn't usually a problem when you date women. Could that be it?
posted by tel3path at 7:00 AM on December 9, 2010
That is, if you want a different outcome. What's odd about your assumptions, to me, isn't that you assume you have to become "sexy" in some stereotyped way, or that you have too much else you'd rather do. It's that you seem to be saying: well, I'm attractive to women, but I'd rather have a man, but in order to get one I'd have to sell out (whatever the precise meaning of that is).
I wonder if what's really bothering you is that you think you'll find yourself in a power dynamic which puts you in a one-down position, somehow, and which isn't usually a problem when you date women. Could that be it?
posted by tel3path at 7:00 AM on December 9, 2010
nthing previous advice--good grooming, clothes and bras that fit, and good hair are really all you need.
maybe another way to look at it is: so what happens if you NEVER find a partner? what if you're right? what do you do with your life?
then go do that. and you'll probably meet someone along the way.
posted by thinkingwoman at 9:56 AM on December 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
maybe another way to look at it is: so what happens if you NEVER find a partner? what if you're right? what do you do with your life?
then go do that. and you'll probably meet someone along the way.
posted by thinkingwoman at 9:56 AM on December 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
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Also, do work to dress up. It works wonders. As a guy, it has been critical to my success.
I also recommend you read Intimate Connections by Dr. David Burns.
posted by Ironmouth at 6:13 PM on December 7, 2010 [4 favorites]