The fine line between 'gentleman' and 'creep'...
October 7, 2010 3:52 PM Subscribe
How do I offer to escorting my date home without sounding like I'm sleazily trying to invite myself back to her place?
A friend and his SO have arranged for the three of us and one of her friends to go out on a double date. Me and SO's friend have never met, but have seen pictures of each other (if that matters), and based on her picture and what I've been told by my friend, we seem compatible. My friend also tells me that SO's friend feels the same, based on the same respective info.
I've been out of the dating scene for about 7-8 years, having been in a long-term relationship up until the beginning of this year, so haven't really got a lot of recent experience to fall back on. The 4 of us are due to go out for drinks together, and I guess my question is twofold:
1. Is it old-fashioned for a guy to offer to escort a girl home? I could see how some women might see this as at best, somewhat outdated or at worst, chauvinistic ("Thanks for ensuring poor, defenceless little-old-me gets home Mr Big, Strong Man!"), but I also don't want to come across as boorish by not offering if that's the done thing.
2. If it is the done thing, how does on offer to do this without coming across as a creep, i.e. using it as an excuse to try and invite myself back to her place for 'coffee'? (Just in case it isn't clear, this question isn't "how do I invite myself back to her place but make it sound innocent?", it's "how do I offer to ensure she gets home safely without seeming like I have an ulterior motive?" - there is a difference!)
(possibly) Relevant details:
- I'm male, late 20s.
- She's the same kind of age.
- We're in the UK (London)
- We're going out somewhere that is in in the middle of where each of us lives, so any suggestions of "get a taxi together, drop her off first" won't help, as we're talking about a £75 fare if that happens. Train/bus services are really good (and much less expensive than a taxi) back to each of our respective places, so suggesting a cab could also raise the "ulterior motive" red flag.
- The other couple live local (we're talking 5 minute bus ride) to where we are going out, so making the journey home with them isn't an option.
Anon as my username is the same on every site I have a username for.
Thanks for your help in advance!
A friend and his SO have arranged for the three of us and one of her friends to go out on a double date. Me and SO's friend have never met, but have seen pictures of each other (if that matters), and based on her picture and what I've been told by my friend, we seem compatible. My friend also tells me that SO's friend feels the same, based on the same respective info.
I've been out of the dating scene for about 7-8 years, having been in a long-term relationship up until the beginning of this year, so haven't really got a lot of recent experience to fall back on. The 4 of us are due to go out for drinks together, and I guess my question is twofold:
1. Is it old-fashioned for a guy to offer to escort a girl home? I could see how some women might see this as at best, somewhat outdated or at worst, chauvinistic ("Thanks for ensuring poor, defenceless little-old-me gets home Mr Big, Strong Man!"), but I also don't want to come across as boorish by not offering if that's the done thing.
2. If it is the done thing, how does on offer to do this without coming across as a creep, i.e. using it as an excuse to try and invite myself back to her place for 'coffee'? (Just in case it isn't clear, this question isn't "how do I invite myself back to her place but make it sound innocent?", it's "how do I offer to ensure she gets home safely without seeming like I have an ulterior motive?" - there is a difference!)
(possibly) Relevant details:
- I'm male, late 20s.
- She's the same kind of age.
- We're in the UK (London)
- We're going out somewhere that is in in the middle of where each of us lives, so any suggestions of "get a taxi together, drop her off first" won't help, as we're talking about a £75 fare if that happens. Train/bus services are really good (and much less expensive than a taxi) back to each of our respective places, so suggesting a cab could also raise the "ulterior motive" red flag.
- The other couple live local (we're talking 5 minute bus ride) to where we are going out, so making the journey home with them isn't an option.
Anon as my username is the same on every site I have a username for.
Thanks for your help in advance!
Just a data point: My current SO offered to do this for me (take me back to my apartment) before our first date. I turned him down. Not because I thought he was a creeper monster or anything, but because I wanted to be able to drive to/from the place we were meeting myself. I sent him a text message to let him know that I was safe when I got home since I knew he was worried.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 3:59 PM on October 7, 2010
posted by SkylitDrawl at 3:59 PM on October 7, 2010
Just ask her if she'd like for you to escort her home. As long as you're not pushy about it, she'll see it however she wants to see it. If she likes you - hooray! You're a gentleman, and she'll relish the opportunity. If she doesn't like you all that much, then she'll decline, and there's no way you could have salvaged it anyway. This is at the end of your double date, so the most important impressions have already been made by this point.
posted by katillathehun at 4:00 PM on October 7, 2010
posted by katillathehun at 4:00 PM on October 7, 2010
You should offer to escort her home. It's a nice thing to do. I would frame it as you being concerned with her welfare rather than you doing your chivalristic duty. Try, "it's pretty late, are you going to get home ok?" or "Would you like me go with you to make sure you get home ok?" And if she waffles, or looks uncomfortable, you can quickly add, "or you could just text me/email me [or, better yet, the name of the mutual friend] when you get home so we know you're safe."
This has been said to me many times in the past, by friends and suitors alike, so it shouldn't come off as creepy unless you really screw it up.
posted by phunniemee at 4:00 PM on October 7, 2010 [6 favorites]
This has been said to me many times in the past, by friends and suitors alike, so it shouldn't come off as creepy unless you really screw it up.
posted by phunniemee at 4:00 PM on October 7, 2010 [6 favorites]
I don't think it's old-fashioned. Lots of my platonic girl friends, if we're out late together, request I walk them home simply because, well, safety. And I don't think it's a feminism issue so much as a practical one.
Offer nicely without pretense, if she refuses ask her if she's sure, and if she is then drop it.
posted by Lutoslawski at 4:00 PM on October 7, 2010
Offer nicely without pretense, if she refuses ask her if she's sure, and if she is then drop it.
posted by Lutoslawski at 4:00 PM on October 7, 2010
Oh, and to add to my comment - if she declines, it doesn't automatically mean she doesn't like you. Like SkylitDrawl, she may have her reasons. But she'll still think the best of you if she already thinks of you in a positive light, so don't sweat it.
posted by katillathehun at 4:01 PM on October 7, 2010
posted by katillathehun at 4:01 PM on October 7, 2010
Is it within walking distance? If so, a simple "Can I walk you home?" doesn't come across as too forward in my opinion. (If you're not within walking distance, it's a little weird to take the train/bus to her house, then back to yours.)
She might protest that it's out of your way. It depends how the evening is going to determine how much you should push it. If she's not into you, saying, "No, I really don't mind!" is going to border on sleazy. If she is into you, it won't. It's tough. The easiest thing is to take her at her word.
Tough call. Good question.
posted by supercres at 4:01 PM on October 7, 2010
She might protest that it's out of your way. It depends how the evening is going to determine how much you should push it. If she's not into you, saying, "No, I really don't mind!" is going to border on sleazy. If she is into you, it won't. It's tough. The easiest thing is to take her at her word.
Tough call. Good question.
posted by supercres at 4:01 PM on October 7, 2010
There's nothing creepy about saying something llike "Are you going to be okay getting home by yourself? I'd be happy to walk with you if you have any concerns" or something similar. Offer but then don't insist.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 4:02 PM on October 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by otherwordlyglow at 4:02 PM on October 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
if I were in her shoes, I'd be happy to have the offer made (its just nice) but she may not feel she really needs an escort to get home safely, so if she says no say 'ok'.
posted by supermedusa at 4:03 PM on October 7, 2010
posted by supermedusa at 4:03 PM on October 7, 2010
Unless the date went very well, I would not offer to escort the girl home.
I had a guy do this on a date a couple of years ago. The date was awkward - not horrible - but I was ready to go home and call it a night at like 9:00. We walked towards the subway station (which he would take to get home - I could just walk 5 minutes to my then apartment). So I tell him something along the lines of "ok, it was good to get to know you more, have a great night!" But he offered to walk me back. I say "no, it's ok, I'm very close. But thanks, dateguy!" He insisted again. Ugh. So we endured the even more awkward 5 minute walk back to my apartment.
I generally find it annoying and honestly, kind of creepy. Dateguy had to have realized how awkward dinner was, so why extend it? I'm a big girl and can walk 5 minutes in a familiar neighborhood by myself.
Unless the date went well, and you felt you got along well with or had chemistry with this girl, and would enjoy spending some extra additional time with her on the walk back, I would not do offer. Or offer, but absolutely do not insist.
posted by raztaj at 4:06 PM on October 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
I had a guy do this on a date a couple of years ago. The date was awkward - not horrible - but I was ready to go home and call it a night at like 9:00. We walked towards the subway station (which he would take to get home - I could just walk 5 minutes to my then apartment). So I tell him something along the lines of "ok, it was good to get to know you more, have a great night!" But he offered to walk me back. I say "no, it's ok, I'm very close. But thanks, dateguy!" He insisted again. Ugh. So we endured the even more awkward 5 minute walk back to my apartment.
I generally find it annoying and honestly, kind of creepy. Dateguy had to have realized how awkward dinner was, so why extend it? I'm a big girl and can walk 5 minutes in a familiar neighborhood by myself.
Unless the date went well, and you felt you got along well with or had chemistry with this girl, and would enjoy spending some extra additional time with her on the walk back, I would not do offer. Or offer, but absolutely do not insist.
posted by raztaj at 4:06 PM on October 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure from your question - how exactly would you see her home safely? Bus? Train? If so, I would maybe just ask if she would like some company on the ride home, as you are really enjoying her company (assuming you are). I also like the idea of following up with a "Or you could text/call me/friend just so we know you got home safely" - it gives her an easy out. Also, as a girl, I would find it charming that you offered, although I may not take you up on it (even if I was into you).
posted by tryniti at 4:07 PM on October 7, 2010
posted by tryniti at 4:07 PM on October 7, 2010
I agree that you should offer, but not insist. And if didn't go all that well, you can skip that.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 4:09 PM on October 7, 2010
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 4:09 PM on October 7, 2010
I always offer, easy as , "I had a great time, do you mind if I walk you home?" if she says yes or no leave it alone, I would only insists beyond that, if she had just moved to the south Bronx from Iowa.
posted by kanemano at 4:14 PM on October 7, 2010
posted by kanemano at 4:14 PM on October 7, 2010
Don't offer unless you absolutely hit it off on the date and you want the pretext to keep talking. Safety is a bad reason: if she managed to come alone she can make her way home alone. You will come off as having a misguided sense of chivalry no matter what, if she sees it that way. Better not to go there.
posted by slow graffiti at 4:15 PM on October 7, 2010
posted by slow graffiti at 4:15 PM on October 7, 2010
Safety is a bad reason: if she managed to come alone she can make her way home alone.
Um, in fact safety is the only reason. If she went got to dinner by herself at 7:00 pm, and then after dinner + drinks at another bar + whatever and now she needs to walk home by herself at 2:15 am - well that's a quite different matter, now isn't it?
I dunno. As a former New Yorker who knows girls who have had some fucked up shit happen to them walking alone late at night, being escorted home is often a great idea.
A lot of this then, I guess, depends on context. What part of London you're in, what kind of transport you take, how late it is by the end, how inebriated you are, how the date went...but I still think it's best to err on the side of asking. If I didn't ask and something happened, well, I'd have a hard time letting go of that. It just seems like the right thing to do as a human, all that chivalry bullshit aside.
posted by Lutoslawski at 4:27 PM on October 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Um, in fact safety is the only reason. If she went got to dinner by herself at 7:00 pm, and then after dinner + drinks at another bar + whatever and now she needs to walk home by herself at 2:15 am - well that's a quite different matter, now isn't it?
I dunno. As a former New Yorker who knows girls who have had some fucked up shit happen to them walking alone late at night, being escorted home is often a great idea.
A lot of this then, I guess, depends on context. What part of London you're in, what kind of transport you take, how late it is by the end, how inebriated you are, how the date went...but I still think it's best to err on the side of asking. If I didn't ask and something happened, well, I'd have a hard time letting go of that. It just seems like the right thing to do as a human, all that chivalry bullshit aside.
posted by Lutoslawski at 4:27 PM on October 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Another factor to consider will be how many alcoholic drinks she's had. If she's had more than a couple making sure she gets home safely is just the decent thing to do. Offer to help her catch a cab. (I don't know anything about London cabs.)
posted by mareli at 4:30 PM on October 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by mareli at 4:30 PM on October 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think you are being old-fashioned and possibly offensive because of your reasons.
Some non-offensive reasons: she asked you, you are getting along great and want to spend more time together and possibly have coffee at someone's home, she lives in a crime-ridden area and has mentioned that, or she is too drunk to walk or get out of a cab herself.
Offensive reasons: just about anything else.
I think you should assume she is not a little girl who needs someone to look after her and make plans for her.
posted by meepmeow at 4:34 PM on October 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Some non-offensive reasons: she asked you, you are getting along great and want to spend more time together and possibly have coffee at someone's home, she lives in a crime-ridden area and has mentioned that, or she is too drunk to walk or get out of a cab herself.
Offensive reasons: just about anything else.
I think you should assume she is not a little girl who needs someone to look after her and make plans for her.
posted by meepmeow at 4:34 PM on October 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's nice to offer, but you just can't take it personally if she says no (and don't press it). I mean, statistically speaking, she's just as likely to be assaulted by you in this situation than by someone off the street. Letting someone walk you home is a thing of trust in and of itself.
I consider myself a feminist and I don't think merely offering is old-fashioned, as long as you don't add any paternalistic implications. I usually offer male friends the same if it's dark and late.
posted by threeants at 4:45 PM on October 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
I consider myself a feminist and I don't think merely offering is old-fashioned, as long as you don't add any paternalistic implications. I usually offer male friends the same if it's dark and late.
posted by threeants at 4:45 PM on October 7, 2010 [4 favorites]
It seems to me that, not surprisingly, women differ quite a bit on this. Some will react negatively, others will think it's great (even if they don't take you up on it). Usually for my first dates we both end up driving, but I always offer to walk her to her car. I've had women accept and refuse, but no one has gotten offended as far as I can tell.
But as some of the stories above make clear... ask once, only. At worst then I think some women might think you're old-fashioned or something. Persistence is what would move you into creepy territory.
posted by wildcrdj at 4:45 PM on October 7, 2010
But as some of the stories above make clear... ask once, only. At worst then I think some women might think you're old-fashioned or something. Persistence is what would move you into creepy territory.
posted by wildcrdj at 4:45 PM on October 7, 2010
Back when I went on dates and took public transit home I always appreciated being walked to the subway (I mean that's just polite, I did that for friends too), but I would have found it really weird if a dude insisted on riding the subway home with me if that was not his train as well.
She lives in a city. She presumably does not hide in her apartment after dark. She agreed to a date somewhere not near her home. She knows how to find her way home safely.
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 4:45 PM on October 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
She lives in a city. She presumably does not hide in her apartment after dark. She agreed to a date somewhere not near her home. She knows how to find her way home safely.
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 4:45 PM on October 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
As a feminist who lives in an urban neighborhood, I appreciate friends and dates at least Inquiring as to whether I'd like someone to see me home / watch from the car to be sure I get in safely. Sure, I get home safe by myself All. The. Time. But it's always a little safer to have others I know around.
If you want to be Really Clear that you're not being skeezy (by the end of the night you'll have a sense for your rapport with her anyway), you could word it something like, "would you like me to see you safely to your front door?". You could add something about enjoying her company that much longer for the duration of the trip if it's going well. And "to your front door" should make it very clear that you're not trying to weasel your way upstairs on the first date.
posted by ldthomps at 4:56 PM on October 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
If you want to be Really Clear that you're not being skeezy (by the end of the night you'll have a sense for your rapport with her anyway), you could word it something like, "would you like me to see you safely to your front door?". You could add something about enjoying her company that much longer for the duration of the trip if it's going well. And "to your front door" should make it very clear that you're not trying to weasel your way upstairs on the first date.
posted by ldthomps at 4:56 PM on October 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
Going out of your way to take a bus home with her is a bit odd. If you can offer to walk her to a station or wait with her, that would be a good compromise. Ditto to everyone who says that not dropping it immediately after a "no, thanks" gets creepy.
posted by needs more cowbell at 5:00 PM on October 7, 2010
posted by needs more cowbell at 5:00 PM on October 7, 2010
Nthing asking but taking her at her word if she declines.
posted by Everydayville at 5:24 PM on October 7, 2010
posted by Everydayville at 5:24 PM on October 7, 2010
I'm not old fashioned at all, but like ldthomps, I really appreciate it when people offer to walk me home or some such, because I'm a wimp. I wouldn't be offended at all by the offer (and have had nice male friends offer to do such when clearly they had no ulterior motive).
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 5:42 PM on October 7, 2010
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 5:42 PM on October 7, 2010
I fear many people responding here aren't familiar with public transport in London. It would be fine if you were both walking back somewhere close. However, I'm 100% with needs more cowbell: nobody in London would go out of their way to get a bus/tube back with someone. Taking her to the nearest station or waiting with her at the bus stop is your only option (unless she invites you back for coffee, of course)/
posted by turkeyphant at 6:12 PM on October 7, 2010
posted by turkeyphant at 6:12 PM on October 7, 2010
Asking will seem polite and considerate. That said, I was always surprised to be asked, as I come and go at all hours in my daily life, so if I needed protection that Saturday, well, what about Monday through Friday. Also, the point about being assaulted by you is (were it not you) a good one. When I read that, I realized that a lot of time when I declined the offer, it was because I felt odd about having someone I didn't know well accompany me on my quiet, dark, personal, familiar, and private street. A home street is almost like a home, so being alone often felt better than that "intrusion," if I wasn't ready to invite someone back. / Just some various thoughts, but asking is nevertheless polite and the right thing to do.
posted by salvia at 6:32 PM on October 7, 2010
posted by salvia at 6:32 PM on October 7, 2010
She's not only just as likely to be assaulted by you- she's much more likely to be assaulted by you than by a stranger.
"I had a great time, do you mind if I walk you home?"
I would assume you wanted to sleep with me. I would anticipate an awkward conversation at the door. It's more, "can you accommodate my request" than, "what would make you most comfortable"?
"Would you like me togo with you to make sure you get home ok walk you back?" And if she waffles, or looks uncomfortable, you can quickly add, "or you could just text me/email me [or, better yet, the name of the mutual friend] when you get home so we know you're safe."
I'm probably more sensitive than most to benevolent sexism, and I would be OK with this. Giving options is good.
posted by emilyd22222 at 7:02 PM on October 7, 2010
"I had a great time, do you mind if I walk you home?"
I would assume you wanted to sleep with me. I would anticipate an awkward conversation at the door. It's more, "can you accommodate my request" than, "what would make you most comfortable"?
"Would you like me to
I'm probably more sensitive than most to benevolent sexism, and I would be OK with this. Giving options is good.
posted by emilyd22222 at 7:02 PM on October 7, 2010
I think maybe just saying "Can I drop you home" or something like that in the same tone of voice that a waiter would use asking "Can I get you something to drink" would be enough to make your intention clear. If she says no (if it were me, it could go either way depending on how the date went) then you can say "okay, get home safe! Bye!"
posted by mckenney at 7:21 PM on October 7, 2010
posted by mckenney at 7:21 PM on October 7, 2010
I am a girl who goes out a lot in the company of men. I live in a big OMG SO DANGEROUS city (Chicago). I drink pretty goddamn heavily and no one I know owns cars.
Unless I am in the company of a gentleman who happens to own a car, I consider him walking with me to a bus, my bike, or a taxi sufficient. He waits until my bus arrives/I unlock my bike/the cab pulls up, we kiss and say goodbye, he watches me pull away safe. I generally consider this a Nice Thing To Do.
posted by Juliet Banana at 8:17 PM on October 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Unless I am in the company of a gentleman who happens to own a car, I consider him walking with me to a bus, my bike, or a taxi sufficient. He waits until my bus arrives/I unlock my bike/the cab pulls up, we kiss and say goodbye, he watches me pull away safe. I generally consider this a Nice Thing To Do.
posted by Juliet Banana at 8:17 PM on October 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Given the distances you describe, offering to take her home is not expected. If you want to make a gesture in that direction anyway, ask her "How are you getting home?" and escort her to her chosen method of transportation or "Are you okay getting home?"
If she seems doubtful or nervous about making the trip herself, you can offer to escort her, but the reality is, she probably goes out without a male escort all the time -- she's not likely to be afraid to go back to her place alone in the dark, because she probably does it almost every day.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:40 PM on October 7, 2010
If she seems doubtful or nervous about making the trip herself, you can offer to escort her, but the reality is, she probably goes out without a male escort all the time -- she's not likely to be afraid to go back to her place alone in the dark, because she probably does it almost every day.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:40 PM on October 7, 2010
You're in London. Don't offer to walk her home - offer to walk her to her bus or to the tube station. Public safety issues managed, chivalrous nature demonstrated, and you'll not come across as though you're trying to walk her all the way home to her bedroom.
posted by cromagnon at 1:08 AM on October 8, 2010
posted by cromagnon at 1:08 AM on October 8, 2010
Seconding when in London, walk back to bus/ tube station or else it's really weird. Also say, "Text me when you get home!" because that's a nice thing to do.
posted by moiraine at 2:02 AM on October 8, 2010
posted by moiraine at 2:02 AM on October 8, 2010
Yeah, in London the only reason to escort your date home is because you want to have sex with them. Juliet Banana gives correct etiquette.
posted by ninebelow at 4:00 AM on October 8, 2010
posted by ninebelow at 4:00 AM on October 8, 2010
I always find just telling her the truth works. Offer to walk her home or to the bus or her car or what ever. Tell her this is not to get into your pants. Just to make sure your safe.
Being truthfull has always worked for me.
People are too scared to be truthfull today.
posted by majortom1981 at 4:24 AM on October 8, 2010
Being truthfull has always worked for me.
People are too scared to be truthfull today.
posted by majortom1981 at 4:24 AM on October 8, 2010
If it gets that late, or she's had enough to drink that I am worried about her walking/travelling on public transport alone, I offer to get her in a cab, and maybe even pay for it, then go my own way. If she declines the offer, I accept that and leave her alone.
posted by Diag at 5:30 AM on October 8, 2010
posted by Diag at 5:30 AM on October 8, 2010
Offer, regardless of how the date went. Even if the evening totally bombed, it's still the gentlemanly thing to do. If she declines, then follow up with "Well, please call or text [MUTUAL ACQUAINTANCE] when you get home, okay? It's a dark night and I'm concerned for your safety."
Offering to walk her home at the end of a successful date is not creepy.
Offering to walk her home at the end of a failed date shows grace and class and is not creepy.
If she declines, asking her to contact [MUTUAL ACQUAINTANCE] instead of you shows that your concern is solely for her safety, and is not creepy.
Insisting that she let you walk her home, or that she call/text you, is pretty creepy.
posted by xedrik at 8:27 AM on October 8, 2010
Offering to walk her home at the end of a successful date is not creepy.
Offering to walk her home at the end of a failed date shows grace and class and is not creepy.
If she declines, asking her to contact [MUTUAL ACQUAINTANCE] instead of you shows that your concern is solely for her safety, and is not creepy.
Insisting that she let you walk her home, or that she call/text you, is pretty creepy.
posted by xedrik at 8:27 AM on October 8, 2010
I'd offer to walk her to the Tube station, and then you can each get on your respective lines. Given the high cab fare, I'm guessing you're at opposite ends of town, so this way works best.
posted by djgh at 11:21 AM on October 8, 2010
posted by djgh at 11:21 AM on October 8, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Offer, but don't persist and don't imply that she's a poor ickle defenceless girlie who needs a big strong man to cross the road. One of the top ten creepiest encounters of my life was with my brother's roommate who INSISTED that he was walking me home and followed me out the door despite all my many and varied forms of NO, and did his best to walk me home while I did my best to outpace him. It's a nice offer to make, but it's her call to accept.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 3:56 PM on October 7, 2010 [2 favorites]