What can we do differently?
February 28, 2010 7:46 AM Subscribe
How do I correct an intimacy problem in a relationship? The affection is gone, and I'd like to bring it back but I feel guilty because I know he wants more alone time.
My boyfriend and I have been on and off for a little over a year and six months. We had two short-term break-ups in between then, and they both happened because I never felt as if I'm a priority in his life.
I still don't. For example, I'll be crying/scared/etc but he won't stay with me because the bed is uncomfortable. He'll apologize after the fact, but little things like this happen frequently and I'm finding it harder and harder to get past them.
Lately, the intimacy has completely vanished. He doesn't kiss/hug/compliment/tell me he loves me anymore. We moved in together two days ago (out of necessity), and he's basically been on the computer 24/7.
I feel as if he's no longer interested in me and it really hurts. I've basically been a crying mess for the past four days.
I don't feel that he's a bad person, just that he likes his alone time... but I also feel that my efforts to give him that time aren't working. For example, we scheduled a date night that would give him a week of alone time. The morning of the date night, I got the "move out" notice (we knew I'd have to move in w/ him awhile ago but didn't know when.)
I let him know, and he cancelled the date night because he wanted some alone time before we moved in together, because after that he wouldn't be getting any. I told him that moving in together doesn't = spending 24/7 together, nor did I expect that.
I got upset about the cancellation, because we were on shaky grounds already and I saw it as opportunity to actually spend some light-hearted time hanging out. He told me that he felt I hadn't given him enough alone time still, but to me a week is plenty of time. It also really hurt because I always try to make sure he gets enough alone time, it's sort of a conscious thing for me.
I've tried speaking to him about it multiple times, and it usually results in him assuring me that he's still attracted to me/romantically interested in me, and getting upset that I don't take him at his word, but it doesn't help as I'm the type of person that needs to be told those things unprompted, and I also tend to analyze subtle hints in actions, which doesn't help at all.
I still love him deeply, and I want to make things work. I know my post is all negative and that tends to send up red flags, but I'm just frustrated and feeling pretty hopeless as I'm writing this. There are a lot of good times/good memories/good things about him that make me want to make this work. I'm also framing this as a "things he does that I don't like" question because I've tried blaming myself and changing my behavior, but it hasn't worked (yet, I am very open to things I can do differently!)
I'm just at a loss of what to do. I've tried the "I feel" communication method, but that failed. We had a similar issue at the four-month or so mark, and I handled it by making myself extremely busy and not having much time for him, which worked for me but made him sad because he felt I was losing interest in him. I tried being direct and just saying, "Hey, I feel like you've lost interest in me," but that failed miserably.
I can't move out, as at the moment it's either live with him or be homeless (long story, but I can't take any advice that involves that.) I also know he's not cheating on me, because when he's not working he spends all of his time at home on the computer.
Please no DTMFA responses, as I'm wanting to do all I can to try to make this work before I break up with him (I've considered it lately, but the good times are -really- good and I don't want to break up again before knowing I've done all I can do, because I know there's no going back this time.)
My boyfriend and I have been on and off for a little over a year and six months. We had two short-term break-ups in between then, and they both happened because I never felt as if I'm a priority in his life.
I still don't. For example, I'll be crying/scared/etc but he won't stay with me because the bed is uncomfortable. He'll apologize after the fact, but little things like this happen frequently and I'm finding it harder and harder to get past them.
Lately, the intimacy has completely vanished. He doesn't kiss/hug/compliment/tell me he loves me anymore. We moved in together two days ago (out of necessity), and he's basically been on the computer 24/7.
I feel as if he's no longer interested in me and it really hurts. I've basically been a crying mess for the past four days.
I don't feel that he's a bad person, just that he likes his alone time... but I also feel that my efforts to give him that time aren't working. For example, we scheduled a date night that would give him a week of alone time. The morning of the date night, I got the "move out" notice (we knew I'd have to move in w/ him awhile ago but didn't know when.)
I let him know, and he cancelled the date night because he wanted some alone time before we moved in together, because after that he wouldn't be getting any. I told him that moving in together doesn't = spending 24/7 together, nor did I expect that.
I got upset about the cancellation, because we were on shaky grounds already and I saw it as opportunity to actually spend some light-hearted time hanging out. He told me that he felt I hadn't given him enough alone time still, but to me a week is plenty of time. It also really hurt because I always try to make sure he gets enough alone time, it's sort of a conscious thing for me.
I've tried speaking to him about it multiple times, and it usually results in him assuring me that he's still attracted to me/romantically interested in me, and getting upset that I don't take him at his word, but it doesn't help as I'm the type of person that needs to be told those things unprompted, and I also tend to analyze subtle hints in actions, which doesn't help at all.
I still love him deeply, and I want to make things work. I know my post is all negative and that tends to send up red flags, but I'm just frustrated and feeling pretty hopeless as I'm writing this. There are a lot of good times/good memories/good things about him that make me want to make this work. I'm also framing this as a "things he does that I don't like" question because I've tried blaming myself and changing my behavior, but it hasn't worked (yet, I am very open to things I can do differently!)
I'm just at a loss of what to do. I've tried the "I feel" communication method, but that failed. We had a similar issue at the four-month or so mark, and I handled it by making myself extremely busy and not having much time for him, which worked for me but made him sad because he felt I was losing interest in him. I tried being direct and just saying, "Hey, I feel like you've lost interest in me," but that failed miserably.
I can't move out, as at the moment it's either live with him or be homeless (long story, but I can't take any advice that involves that.) I also know he's not cheating on me, because when he's not working he spends all of his time at home on the computer.
Please no DTMFA responses, as I'm wanting to do all I can to try to make this work before I break up with him (I've considered it lately, but the good times are -really- good and I don't want to break up again before knowing I've done all I can do, because I know there's no going back this time.)
He's heard your message, he's aware of the problem, and he's decided not to change. You call him your boyfriend, but he's not acting like one. It sounds like he's your roommate and that's it.
This has been a big enough deal that you've broken up with him a couple times before, and you haven't suggested that anything is better now than at those times. I don't see any rationale for trying to keep him as your boyfriend rather than just your roommate.
BTW, this is not about him being an "introvert" (per lakerk's comment). I'm an introvert, and I've dated introverts. Your boyfriend's behavior is not simply how introverts act in relationships -- it's how he acts when he's uninterested in a relationship. I mean, is he an introvert? Probably, if he spends so much time at home. But that's not really the issue here.
posted by Jaltcoh at 8:04 AM on February 28, 2010 [11 favorites]
This has been a big enough deal that you've broken up with him a couple times before, and you haven't suggested that anything is better now than at those times. I don't see any rationale for trying to keep him as your boyfriend rather than just your roommate.
BTW, this is not about him being an "introvert" (per lakerk's comment). I'm an introvert, and I've dated introverts. Your boyfriend's behavior is not simply how introverts act in relationships -- it's how he acts when he's uninterested in a relationship. I mean, is he an introvert? Probably, if he spends so much time at home. But that's not really the issue here.
posted by Jaltcoh at 8:04 AM on February 28, 2010 [11 favorites]
he is an introvert. And will be. Forever and ever.
This is true, but it's not an excuse. It doesn't seem as if you're offended by the idea that he wants alone time--you seem to fully understand and accept his need to recharge on his own.
Introverts are not emotionally stunted or incapable of affection. Being an introvert does not mean one has a free pass to mistreat or neglect a loved one. I am an introvert, and I know that there are things I need to do in order to show love to my husband. Some of those things fit easily into my natural inclinations, and others (like going out with his friends) require a little bit of stepping outside of my preferred routine.
I think you need to sit down with him, perhaps with a therapist to mediate, and discuss the ways in which you may not understand his needs as an introvert and the ways in which he does not understand your needs as his partner. When an introvert and an extrovert are together as a couple, each may have to make some compromises. It sounds like right now you're making most or all of the compromises. This is unsustainable. That doesn't mean that the relationship is unsustainable, necessarily, but long-term you needs to work out how to balance the work a little more equitably.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:08 AM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
This is true, but it's not an excuse. It doesn't seem as if you're offended by the idea that he wants alone time--you seem to fully understand and accept his need to recharge on his own.
Introverts are not emotionally stunted or incapable of affection. Being an introvert does not mean one has a free pass to mistreat or neglect a loved one. I am an introvert, and I know that there are things I need to do in order to show love to my husband. Some of those things fit easily into my natural inclinations, and others (like going out with his friends) require a little bit of stepping outside of my preferred routine.
I think you need to sit down with him, perhaps with a therapist to mediate, and discuss the ways in which you may not understand his needs as an introvert and the ways in which he does not understand your needs as his partner. When an introvert and an extrovert are together as a couple, each may have to make some compromises. It sounds like right now you're making most or all of the compromises. This is unsustainable. That doesn't mean that the relationship is unsustainable, necessarily, but long-term you needs to work out how to balance the work a little more equitably.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:08 AM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Sounds like you are clingy. Maybe sort yourself out (therapist?) and decide whether being in a relationship right now is the best thing for you.
posted by TheBones at 8:12 AM on February 28, 2010
posted by TheBones at 8:12 AM on February 28, 2010
It sounds like you two have opposing pictures of what a relationship means with regard to time. Your default mode is "spend time together," and you're willing to make the effort to spend time apart. His default mode is "spend time apart," and he's willing (theoretically more than truly, maybe) to make the effort to spend time together. For example, you say that "giving him" alone time is a conscious thing for you, and from your post it looks like he thinks of spending time with you the same way. Living together doesn't help, but it's not the fundamental problem.
First, the balance of "giving" is unequal. You're giving him a week of alone time and he can't even give you one lousy date? Pfft. Second, you've said you want someone who does certain things without you having to ask. It sounds as if you've told him this, and he's still not doing them. You are not happy in a relationship where you and your partner's views on relationships are so fundamentally different.
What's the best case scenario? To me, it will only ever be a compromise, where you end up sitting on the couch together, one of you thinking "finally we're together, we should do this again tomorrow" and the other thinking "good, we're together, this means I can have alone time until next week, at least."
You want a guy who comforts you when you cry, or better, does things so you never start crying, and instead you've got a guy who sits in front of the computer like he doesn't hear you. He wants a girl who's out doing stuff on her own while he plays on the computer, and instead he's got one who's at home crying and looking at him with angry eyes. There are people out there who will make you both very happy, really.
You know what you need to do here, but you don't want to (and can't) do it, and you warned us not to tell you to do it, but here it is: (1) move out, and (2) DTMFA.
posted by sallybrown at 8:18 AM on February 28, 2010 [13 favorites]
First, the balance of "giving" is unequal. You're giving him a week of alone time and he can't even give you one lousy date? Pfft. Second, you've said you want someone who does certain things without you having to ask. It sounds as if you've told him this, and he's still not doing them. You are not happy in a relationship where you and your partner's views on relationships are so fundamentally different.
What's the best case scenario? To me, it will only ever be a compromise, where you end up sitting on the couch together, one of you thinking "finally we're together, we should do this again tomorrow" and the other thinking "good, we're together, this means I can have alone time until next week, at least."
You want a guy who comforts you when you cry, or better, does things so you never start crying, and instead you've got a guy who sits in front of the computer like he doesn't hear you. He wants a girl who's out doing stuff on her own while he plays on the computer, and instead he's got one who's at home crying and looking at him with angry eyes. There are people out there who will make you both very happy, really.
You know what you need to do here, but you don't want to (and can't) do it, and you warned us not to tell you to do it, but here it is: (1) move out, and (2) DTMFA.
posted by sallybrown at 8:18 AM on February 28, 2010 [13 favorites]
I'm going to have to go w/ Jaltcoh re: the fact that this sounds like he's stopped caring rather than being an introvert. HOWEVER, I suggest you read through these two articles: Caring for Your Introvert and The Nerd Handbook.
Also, for a guy who is introverted, used to his privacy and so on, being forced to move in together would be very unsettling and a reason to dive into escapism for prolonged periods of time.
posted by griphus at 8:19 AM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Also, for a guy who is introverted, used to his privacy and so on, being forced to move in together would be very unsettling and a reason to dive into escapism for prolonged periods of time.
posted by griphus at 8:19 AM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
>I've tried blaming myself
Don't do that, that will not help.
>Sounds like you are clingy.
Not to me it doesn't.
The only thing that can possibly help here is communication. Ask him what he is and isn't willing to do to make the relationship work, and what he needs you to do or not do for the same purpose. Then decide if that is acceptable to you.
posted by pyro979 at 8:22 AM on February 28, 2010
Don't do that, that will not help.
>Sounds like you are clingy.
Not to me it doesn't.
The only thing that can possibly help here is communication. Ask him what he is and isn't willing to do to make the relationship work, and what he needs you to do or not do for the same purpose. Then decide if that is acceptable to you.
posted by pyro979 at 8:22 AM on February 28, 2010
TheBones, you seem to have missed the part where the OP said:
We had a similar issue at the four-month or so mark, and I handled it by making myself extremely busy and not having much time for him, which worked for me but made him sad because he felt I was losing interest in him.
OP, it sounds like your boyfriend has a need to always be the less attached one in the relationship. When you turned it around and showed that you were okay on your own, he freaked out... perhaps because you suddenly had some kind of agency in the relationship. I think both of you need to figure out why this bothered him and whether it's something that can be repaired. Saying "I can't spend as much time with you as you'd like because I need alone time" is one thing -- once a week sounds pretty damn infrequent to me, but hey, different people have different needs -- but childishly demanding that you don't keep yourself busy and enjoy YOUR alone time is not cool.
posted by pluckemin at 8:28 AM on February 28, 2010 [13 favorites]
We had a similar issue at the four-month or so mark, and I handled it by making myself extremely busy and not having much time for him, which worked for me but made him sad because he felt I was losing interest in him.
OP, it sounds like your boyfriend has a need to always be the less attached one in the relationship. When you turned it around and showed that you were okay on your own, he freaked out... perhaps because you suddenly had some kind of agency in the relationship. I think both of you need to figure out why this bothered him and whether it's something that can be repaired. Saying "I can't spend as much time with you as you'd like because I need alone time" is one thing -- once a week sounds pretty damn infrequent to me, but hey, different people have different needs -- but childishly demanding that you don't keep yourself busy and enjoy YOUR alone time is not cool.
posted by pluckemin at 8:28 AM on February 28, 2010 [13 favorites]
I'm not going to tell you to dump him. I'm not going to tell you to move out; I think you specifically ask for advice that doesn't include either of those things because you know that that is the only solution and you don't want to accept that.
This is not an intimacy problem. This is not a problem about the levels of affection. It's much simpler. What's important to him is important to you. What's important to you is not important to him. You can't make it be. You can make yourself settle for the crumbs that he gives you, make yourself believe the emotionally blackmailing things he'll say when you've reached a crisis point and he realises he may lose you. You really can. It's miserable and it won't last, but you could do that. You're not helping either of you, but it's possible. Finding something to make you stop thinking about it, and that helps distract you til you're used to living with having your deepest emotional needs ignored is the key.
posted by lemniskate at 8:31 AM on February 28, 2010 [10 favorites]
This is not an intimacy problem. This is not a problem about the levels of affection. It's much simpler. What's important to him is important to you. What's important to you is not important to him. You can't make it be. You can make yourself settle for the crumbs that he gives you, make yourself believe the emotionally blackmailing things he'll say when you've reached a crisis point and he realises he may lose you. You really can. It's miserable and it won't last, but you could do that. You're not helping either of you, but it's possible. Finding something to make you stop thinking about it, and that helps distract you til you're used to living with having your deepest emotional needs ignored is the key.
posted by lemniskate at 8:31 AM on February 28, 2010 [10 favorites]
I’ll lay out a few options for what I think you can do.
You want to make this work, but does HE want to make this work? What is he willing to do to meet your needs? It sounds like nothing. He says that he’s still attracted and romantically interested and that may be true, but that doesn’t mean he’s emotionally available/willing to be in a relationship with you. I think you need to spell out clearly what YOU need in this relationship. Instead of trying to meet his needs of leaving him alone so he gets his alone time (which I think is an excuse). Think about what you want and need in a partner. If he can’t meet those needs, or doesn’t want to, then you DTMFA.
I don’t doubt there were lots of good times/memories/things in your relationship. But don’t hang on to them as a reason for wanting to stay. You need to take an honest look at the entirety of the relationship, not just the good parts. If you do that, then of course you want to hang on. But include in that picture the times that you broke up, how you worked things out (or not), what happened after you got back together.
It sounds like you’ve both got communication issues, despite using “I” statements: We had a similar issue at the four-month or so mark, and I handled it by making myself extremely busy and not having much time for him, which worked for me but made him sad because he felt I was losing interest in him. I tried being direct and just saying, "Hey, I feel like you've lost interest in me," but that failed miserably.
So you handled not feeling wanted by him by distracting yourself. That made you feel better, got your mind off not feeling wanted, but then HE turns it around on you and says “I feel you’re losing interest in me.” And then you say, “But I thought you were losing interest in me!” (Sigh) Just on this alone I don’t feel like there’s anything salvageable. I think you’ve hurt each other quite a bit, unintentionally, and I think at this point it’s best to let each other go and heal on your own. This whole thing just sounds really messy. As in: why did you not feel wanted (in the first instance)? Did you talk to him about it? What did he do to help you feel more wanted? You distracting yourself and you taking care of yourself brought out these weird insecurities in him where he felt unwanted by you. And then you say, well I was doing all of that because I felt unwanted by you! This is like a bizarre game of chicken. I can sort of see why that failed miserably.
I think it’s interesting that when you were busy and without him, you were happy. I think you need to go back to that.
This isn’t a DTMFA advice, but I think the best thing for you and him is to break it off, let him have his computer 24/7, and you get on with your life. I have a very strong feeling that once you get your own life, he’ll come back and say, “I have feelings for you. I want to make this work. Let’s get back together.” Don’t fall for it, unless you want to go through this whole rigmarole again.
posted by foxjacket at 8:33 AM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
You want to make this work, but does HE want to make this work? What is he willing to do to meet your needs? It sounds like nothing. He says that he’s still attracted and romantically interested and that may be true, but that doesn’t mean he’s emotionally available/willing to be in a relationship with you. I think you need to spell out clearly what YOU need in this relationship. Instead of trying to meet his needs of leaving him alone so he gets his alone time (which I think is an excuse). Think about what you want and need in a partner. If he can’t meet those needs, or doesn’t want to, then you DTMFA.
I don’t doubt there were lots of good times/memories/things in your relationship. But don’t hang on to them as a reason for wanting to stay. You need to take an honest look at the entirety of the relationship, not just the good parts. If you do that, then of course you want to hang on. But include in that picture the times that you broke up, how you worked things out (or not), what happened after you got back together.
It sounds like you’ve both got communication issues, despite using “I” statements: We had a similar issue at the four-month or so mark, and I handled it by making myself extremely busy and not having much time for him, which worked for me but made him sad because he felt I was losing interest in him. I tried being direct and just saying, "Hey, I feel like you've lost interest in me," but that failed miserably.
So you handled not feeling wanted by him by distracting yourself. That made you feel better, got your mind off not feeling wanted, but then HE turns it around on you and says “I feel you’re losing interest in me.” And then you say, “But I thought you were losing interest in me!” (Sigh) Just on this alone I don’t feel like there’s anything salvageable. I think you’ve hurt each other quite a bit, unintentionally, and I think at this point it’s best to let each other go and heal on your own. This whole thing just sounds really messy. As in: why did you not feel wanted (in the first instance)? Did you talk to him about it? What did he do to help you feel more wanted? You distracting yourself and you taking care of yourself brought out these weird insecurities in him where he felt unwanted by you. And then you say, well I was doing all of that because I felt unwanted by you! This is like a bizarre game of chicken. I can sort of see why that failed miserably.
I think it’s interesting that when you were busy and without him, you were happy. I think you need to go back to that.
This isn’t a DTMFA advice, but I think the best thing for you and him is to break it off, let him have his computer 24/7, and you get on with your life. I have a very strong feeling that once you get your own life, he’ll come back and say, “I have feelings for you. I want to make this work. Let’s get back together.” Don’t fall for it, unless you want to go through this whole rigmarole again.
posted by foxjacket at 8:33 AM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
*..."get on with your own life" I mean. And sorry for the messed up italicizing!
And lemniskate totally nailed it.
posted by foxjacket at 8:37 AM on February 28, 2010
And lemniskate totally nailed it.
posted by foxjacket at 8:37 AM on February 28, 2010
We had a similar issue at the four-month or so mark, and I handled it by making myself extremely busy and not having much time for him, which worked for me but made him sad because he felt I was losing interest in him.
That raised a large red flag in my mind. You found a coping mechcanism but he wouldn't support you in that. When he's having alone time (which as a fellow introvert I understand) he can't demand you to be alone as well. My attitude would be "you want to spend tuesday's night by yourself, that's fine but I'm going out/having a friend over/gym etc."
This man clearly can't meet all your needs and that's okay. One person rarely meets anyones complete needs. Advantage being you can continue to grow as people and a couple (if you choose to remain together)
memail me if you want to discuss further.
posted by 92_elements at 8:38 AM on February 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
That raised a large red flag in my mind. You found a coping mechcanism but he wouldn't support you in that. When he's having alone time (which as a fellow introvert I understand) he can't demand you to be alone as well. My attitude would be "you want to spend tuesday's night by yourself, that's fine but I'm going out/having a friend over/gym etc."
This man clearly can't meet all your needs and that's okay. One person rarely meets anyones complete needs. Advantage being you can continue to grow as people and a couple (if you choose to remain together)
memail me if you want to discuss further.
posted by 92_elements at 8:38 AM on February 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I was in a similar situation.
It's so difficult because when you do spend time together, it's really fun/awesome/passionate/comfortable, right? It's just the time apart that sucks, but you try to be happy with the limitations he sets. But after time, it's clear that you just can't deal.
Over and over again, you communicate what you need in order to be happy. You try so hard because, there are a lot of good times/good memories/good things about him that make me want to make this work.
But listen - he knows what you want. You've told him what you NEED in order to be happy. He's unable or unwilling to meet those needs. I know you don't want to hear it, but you deserve someone who will give you more happiness than heartache. Dump him.
posted by pintapicasso at 8:40 AM on February 28, 2010 [6 favorites]
It's so difficult because when you do spend time together, it's really fun/awesome/passionate/comfortable, right? It's just the time apart that sucks, but you try to be happy with the limitations he sets. But after time, it's clear that you just can't deal.
Over and over again, you communicate what you need in order to be happy. You try so hard because, there are a lot of good times/good memories/good things about him that make me want to make this work.
But listen - he knows what you want. You've told him what you NEED in order to be happy. He's unable or unwilling to meet those needs. I know you don't want to hear it, but you deserve someone who will give you more happiness than heartache. Dump him.
posted by pintapicasso at 8:40 AM on February 28, 2010 [6 favorites]
I guess you have to suck up your living situation for the next little while until you gather the resources and strength to find your own place and get back to 'making myself extremely busy.'
It sounds like you are resourceful enough most of the time but being out of a home, having no one to really get you through the current tumult is making you feel frightened and abandoned. It's understandable to feel like this, especially in your current situation and with the lack of attunement you're experiencing. Things will get better - in the mean time, call a friend when you feel overwhelmed with emotions, or write in a journal, go walking, or simply have a sob and don't expect your boy to be able to console you. It doesn't sound like he is in the right space to take care of your needs right now. Maybe he's clueless, maybe he's not in love with you, or maybe he's also overwhelmed with your situation but expresses that differently to you. [I think he's being a bit of a dick, actually. When you're stronger I guess you'll find someone more mature and caring.]
posted by honey-barbara at 8:48 AM on February 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
It sounds like you are resourceful enough most of the time but being out of a home, having no one to really get you through the current tumult is making you feel frightened and abandoned. It's understandable to feel like this, especially in your current situation and with the lack of attunement you're experiencing. Things will get better - in the mean time, call a friend when you feel overwhelmed with emotions, or write in a journal, go walking, or simply have a sob and don't expect your boy to be able to console you. It doesn't sound like he is in the right space to take care of your needs right now. Maybe he's clueless, maybe he's not in love with you, or maybe he's also overwhelmed with your situation but expresses that differently to you. [I think he's being a bit of a dick, actually. When you're stronger I guess you'll find someone more mature and caring.]
posted by honey-barbara at 8:48 AM on February 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
My relationship style is akin to your partner's. I need alone time, but when there's a clock or numbers on that time and somebody glancing at their watch waiting for the time that they 'gave me' to be up, it really doesn't feel like the recharge I need. In fact, I get irrationally resentful that my time is being dispensed to me in such a way that I'm supposed to feel grateful.
So while it's an easy enough impulse to dismiss your SO entirely as an ass, it sounds like he is withdrawing even more in reaction to your clinginess. That's sure as hell what I did in a similar situation. It didn't work out. A good thing to do might be to try and evaluate whether this is a minor incompatibility that you can each try to work on, a major incompatibility of traits that are perfectly fine when matched with the right kind of partner, or if his emotional unavailability and your possible codependency are becoming unhealthy patterns out of which you can't break while in a relationship (in which case, introspection and trying to resolve the root of those issues may be the best long-term solution).
[Upon preview, yeah that 4-month thing was weird and maybe even slightly manipulative behavior. Sounds like he's making himself emotionally unavailable and feeding into your tendency to bend over backward for the relationship. Note: this may have also been going on some in my last relationship. But that's another story for another day about a lot of mutual, mostly unintentional wrongdoing. Memail if you want to hear it]
posted by inkytea at 8:49 AM on February 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
So while it's an easy enough impulse to dismiss your SO entirely as an ass, it sounds like he is withdrawing even more in reaction to your clinginess. That's sure as hell what I did in a similar situation. It didn't work out. A good thing to do might be to try and evaluate whether this is a minor incompatibility that you can each try to work on, a major incompatibility of traits that are perfectly fine when matched with the right kind of partner, or if his emotional unavailability and your possible codependency are becoming unhealthy patterns out of which you can't break while in a relationship (in which case, introspection and trying to resolve the root of those issues may be the best long-term solution).
[Upon preview, yeah that 4-month thing was weird and maybe even slightly manipulative behavior. Sounds like he's making himself emotionally unavailable and feeding into your tendency to bend over backward for the relationship. Note: this may have also been going on some in my last relationship. But that's another story for another day about a lot of mutual, mostly unintentional wrongdoing. Memail if you want to hear it]
posted by inkytea at 8:49 AM on February 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
I've tried speaking to him about it multiple times, and it usually results in him assuring me that he's still attracted to me/romantically interested in me, and getting upset that I don't take him at his word
Man, dude needs to listen to some Extreme.
Because he's not sleeping next to your or spending time with you or being physically affectionate. It's only logical that you would take that to mean he cares less for you--anyone would.
A week is plenty of alone time. Seriously. Take that as someone who is married to an introvert, and is a bit of an introvert herself.
As someone whose relationship was probably as borked as yours is during the first two years (lots fighting, insecurity, craziness, and avoidance), at the time we tried all sorts of things to fix it--not quite only seeing one another once a week and at no other times, but stuff along those lines. None of it worked. What worked was treatment for depression and therapy--for both of us--and time. Lots of time. It was both of our first major relationships and I was extremely insecure (unnecessarily so) and he was extremely protective (unnecessarily so) of his time alone and independence. It was a miserable couple of years and things didn't change until we both realized that we could trust one another and be honest with one another--and that we had to accept each other as we were. This goes both ways: your SO needs to accept the fact that you need more attention and time together than he does just as much as you need to accept the fact that he needs more time alone. In a healthy, mature relationship, you'll end up meeting in the middle for most of these things, and it won't feel onerous because you love one another and want to honor one another's needs.
But I have to say, thank god we never lived together during these times. I can't imagine that it's emotionally healthy for you, when the situation is bound to make you feel even more terrible and insecure. I'd recommend that you find different living arrangements, regardless of whether you stay together. You have too many communication issues to work through first.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:54 AM on February 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
Man, dude needs to listen to some Extreme.
Because he's not sleeping next to your or spending time with you or being physically affectionate. It's only logical that you would take that to mean he cares less for you--anyone would.
A week is plenty of alone time. Seriously. Take that as someone who is married to an introvert, and is a bit of an introvert herself.
As someone whose relationship was probably as borked as yours is during the first two years (lots fighting, insecurity, craziness, and avoidance), at the time we tried all sorts of things to fix it--not quite only seeing one another once a week and at no other times, but stuff along those lines. None of it worked. What worked was treatment for depression and therapy--for both of us--and time. Lots of time. It was both of our first major relationships and I was extremely insecure (unnecessarily so) and he was extremely protective (unnecessarily so) of his time alone and independence. It was a miserable couple of years and things didn't change until we both realized that we could trust one another and be honest with one another--and that we had to accept each other as we were. This goes both ways: your SO needs to accept the fact that you need more attention and time together than he does just as much as you need to accept the fact that he needs more time alone. In a healthy, mature relationship, you'll end up meeting in the middle for most of these things, and it won't feel onerous because you love one another and want to honor one another's needs.
But I have to say, thank god we never lived together during these times. I can't imagine that it's emotionally healthy for you, when the situation is bound to make you feel even more terrible and insecure. I'd recommend that you find different living arrangements, regardless of whether you stay together. You have too many communication issues to work through first.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:54 AM on February 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
Give him all the space he wants. Basically, if you aint getting any, he doesn't get any. If he's sad about not getting his love, he can initiate. He's gotta shit or get off the pot.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:21 AM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 9:21 AM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Well, you know, when we're in an end-of-the-world, apocalyptic scenario such as we are these days, sometimes you just have to suck it up and deal with the mate that's available. You can't be all picky and expect that the last guy on earth is going to have his shit together. Don't be so selfish, the future of the human race depends on you two working it out.
Oh, wait, we're not in that world! My gut says DTMFA as I'm not sure what you're getting out of this. I think PhoBWan's advice is good as always:
None of it worked. What worked was treatment for depression and therapy--for both of us--and time.
I think rather than go through the years of anxiety and hard times that PhoB talks about, you guys should get to therapy now. The side benefit is that if either of you decide that this relationship is not worth it (not all are) that you can walk into your next relationship as better people. I watched a friend of mine struggle with this kind of relationship imbalance -- years of dating followed by about 8 years of marriage until now divorced. Very sad. He never was able to come around and be the partner that she needed. It was deeply unfair to both of them.
posted by amanda at 9:36 AM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Oh, wait, we're not in that world! My gut says DTMFA as I'm not sure what you're getting out of this. I think PhoBWan's advice is good as always:
None of it worked. What worked was treatment for depression and therapy--for both of us--and time.
I think rather than go through the years of anxiety and hard times that PhoB talks about, you guys should get to therapy now. The side benefit is that if either of you decide that this relationship is not worth it (not all are) that you can walk into your next relationship as better people. I watched a friend of mine struggle with this kind of relationship imbalance -- years of dating followed by about 8 years of marriage until now divorced. Very sad. He never was able to come around and be the partner that she needed. It was deeply unfair to both of them.
posted by amanda at 9:36 AM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Also, this is my gender bias and I'm sure plenty will disagree with me but I feel like men are always getting a pass for this kind of behavior. In fact, he's getting a pass in my own mind for being a shitty "introvert" and by that I mean a manipulative boyfriend. He is being manipulative though he may also be an introvert. If this was the girl in the relationship I'd wonder what led her to behave this way and suggest that she work on the specific issues that killed her ability to be intimate. In the couple I mentioned above, that guy did have a very turbulent childhood -- he was abused and lived in a chaotic environment as a child. He had developed coping mechanisms which ultimately shut out his wife. He refused couples therapy though he did go to therapy a few times himself. He only really started to get serious about it when she moved out.
I feel like we often give men a pass saying "that's just how they are" when, in fact, this is probably detrimental to his long-term happiness. I feel like a large percentage of these cases don't happen in a vacuum. There's nature and then there's nurture. The nature part is one thing but it's the nurture aspect that is often most insidious but is also the part that can be unraveled. If you're going to stay with this guy, time to unravel a little bit. Good luck.
posted by amanda at 9:44 AM on February 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I feel like we often give men a pass saying "that's just how they are" when, in fact, this is probably detrimental to his long-term happiness. I feel like a large percentage of these cases don't happen in a vacuum. There's nature and then there's nurture. The nature part is one thing but it's the nurture aspect that is often most insidious but is also the part that can be unraveled. If you're going to stay with this guy, time to unravel a little bit. Good luck.
posted by amanda at 9:44 AM on February 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Here's what you've told us:
1) Your boyfriend has expressed a need for more time on his own.
2) The one time you found a way to happily give him more time on his own, he complained about the way you did it.
3) He has given you no assistance in finding other ways for you to be happy while giving him what he wants.
4) He has expressed an interest in giving you what you want, but has never followed through on it.
5) You feel that breaking up is not an option right now.
I'm not really sure what you want us to tell you. Your boyfriend either can't or won't assist you in being happy, and when you take steps to be happy on your own, he intervenes to prevent you from doing so. That's a terrible situation to be in.
My personal opinion is that if he's not willing to meet you halfway, you need to stop meeting him halfway; you should just do what makes you happy (in this case, getting a life of your own until you're too busy to care that he ignores you), and if he's unhappy about it, leave it up to him to woo you back. I also think you should save as much money as you can so that you can move out, and that when you can afford to do that (if not before), you should break up with him.
If you still think you can't leave him or you're unwilling to make him unhappy in order to save your own sanity, then the only thing you can do is prepare to be miserable for as long as your relationship lasts. You've been miserable for a while now, and there's no reason to think that it won't continue if you both keep doing the same thing you've been doing. You can't make him change his behavior, and you can't make him feel differently about yours. So if you're not willing to change your behavior, prepare for things to stay the same, including your unhappiness.
posted by decathecting at 10:02 AM on February 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
1) Your boyfriend has expressed a need for more time on his own.
2) The one time you found a way to happily give him more time on his own, he complained about the way you did it.
3) He has given you no assistance in finding other ways for you to be happy while giving him what he wants.
4) He has expressed an interest in giving you what you want, but has never followed through on it.
5) You feel that breaking up is not an option right now.
I'm not really sure what you want us to tell you. Your boyfriend either can't or won't assist you in being happy, and when you take steps to be happy on your own, he intervenes to prevent you from doing so. That's a terrible situation to be in.
My personal opinion is that if he's not willing to meet you halfway, you need to stop meeting him halfway; you should just do what makes you happy (in this case, getting a life of your own until you're too busy to care that he ignores you), and if he's unhappy about it, leave it up to him to woo you back. I also think you should save as much money as you can so that you can move out, and that when you can afford to do that (if not before), you should break up with him.
If you still think you can't leave him or you're unwilling to make him unhappy in order to save your own sanity, then the only thing you can do is prepare to be miserable for as long as your relationship lasts. You've been miserable for a while now, and there's no reason to think that it won't continue if you both keep doing the same thing you've been doing. You can't make him change his behavior, and you can't make him feel differently about yours. So if you're not willing to change your behavior, prepare for things to stay the same, including your unhappiness.
posted by decathecting at 10:02 AM on February 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
I WAS this person in my last relationship. I need lots of space, lots of alone time. And it was because, subconsciously, I didn't want to be in the relationship.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:11 AM on February 28, 2010 [12 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:11 AM on February 28, 2010 [12 favorites]
I've been in this situation before. The good times are -really- good because the normal times are -really- bad. If you spend so much of your time trying to get any shred of attention from him and end up a crying mess, then you're making yourself starved for anything positive coming your way. All he has to do is barely try and it feels SO crazy wonderful. I've been in the same situation, and it's incredibly difficult to leave behind, but for your sanity I think you should. He's making you crazy (crying mess) and I assume you're not crazy. That's bad. He doesn't care enough to change. You'll probably get more insecure and he'll probably drift away. You need to reclaim your sanity and forget about someone that doesn't put in the same amount of effort.
posted by chickibaby at 10:13 AM on February 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by chickibaby at 10:13 AM on February 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
Excellent answers from lemniskate and pintapicasso.
The issue, as I see it, is not that you're two mature, respectful adults who both want the relationship to work, but who oh-so-tragically want different things. The problem is that your boyfriend doesn't care about what you want. No amount of understanding on your part can make it work with someone who couldn't be bothered. He wants to always be the less-attached one, to be in control of the relationship all the time. This dynamic is not healthy no matter how good the good times feel. Trust me; I've been there.
I've tried speaking to him about it multiple times, and it usually results in him assuring me that he's still attracted to me/romantically interested in me, and getting upset that I don't take him at his word
I'm sure he seems really sincere, and like you've really hurt his feelings. But he's manipulating you and I wish you could see it. Read this and see how much fits him.
posted by randomname25 at 10:20 AM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
The issue, as I see it, is not that you're two mature, respectful adults who both want the relationship to work, but who oh-so-tragically want different things. The problem is that your boyfriend doesn't care about what you want. No amount of understanding on your part can make it work with someone who couldn't be bothered. He wants to always be the less-attached one, to be in control of the relationship all the time. This dynamic is not healthy no matter how good the good times feel. Trust me; I've been there.
I've tried speaking to him about it multiple times, and it usually results in him assuring me that he's still attracted to me/romantically interested in me, and getting upset that I don't take him at his word
I'm sure he seems really sincere, and like you've really hurt his feelings. But he's manipulating you and I wish you could see it. Read this and see how much fits him.
posted by randomname25 at 10:20 AM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
We moved in together two days ago (out of necessity), and he's basically been on the computer 24/7.
You moved in together out of necessity and not the desire to do so? I don't know many people who've found their relationship better off because they were forced into something, whether by choice or circumstance.
I would do my best to find another place to live as soon as possible to take your relationship off the pressure cooker. Your boyfriend may or may not want to be in the relationship but regardless, there's no way the current living situation is going to improve things. Good luck!
posted by Hiker at 11:08 AM on February 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
You moved in together out of necessity and not the desire to do so? I don't know many people who've found their relationship better off because they were forced into something, whether by choice or circumstance.
I would do my best to find another place to live as soon as possible to take your relationship off the pressure cooker. Your boyfriend may or may not want to be in the relationship but regardless, there's no way the current living situation is going to improve things. Good luck!
posted by Hiker at 11:08 AM on February 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yes, I was in a relationship with a guy a lot like yours for a year and a half.
One compromise we did achieve for my introvert bf's need for space was spending quiet time in the same room as him. Having dated a few introverts, there is great value in being able to spend "quality alone time" together, sitting in the same room for a few hours without feeling the need to talk. I'd read books, play my DS, do my knitting, etc, just doing my own thing, listening to music because I don't like silence. Are you always finding a need to fill the silence when you're together?
posted by lizbunny at 11:13 AM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
One compromise we did achieve for my introvert bf's need for space was spending quiet time in the same room as him. Having dated a few introverts, there is great value in being able to spend "quality alone time" together, sitting in the same room for a few hours without feeling the need to talk. I'd read books, play my DS, do my knitting, etc, just doing my own thing, listening to music because I don't like silence. Are you always finding a need to fill the silence when you're together?
posted by lizbunny at 11:13 AM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
He's had every opportunity to show you what he wants from a relationship, and what he has to offer, and he's shown you. If you want to stay in the relationship, you can try being a little less available, to see if that makes you more interesting. You can suck it up and accept whatever morsels of affection he has available.
In my unfortunate experience, some people (ex-husband in my case) are unable to accurately portray their emotions in words, but will communicate extremely accurately with their actions. If you pay attention to his behavior, his message is pretty clear; he does not want intimacy. Try to think a little more long term; is this really a sustainable relationship?
posted by theora55 at 11:15 AM on February 28, 2010 [6 favorites]
In my unfortunate experience, some people (ex-husband in my case) are unable to accurately portray their emotions in words, but will communicate extremely accurately with their actions. If you pay attention to his behavior, his message is pretty clear; he does not want intimacy. Try to think a little more long term; is this really a sustainable relationship?
posted by theora55 at 11:15 AM on February 28, 2010 [6 favorites]
I'm sorry to be the buzz kill here, but it sounds like you are in denial. To use an oft-quoted cliche "he's just not that into you." It sounds like you're jumping through hoops to keep somebody who doesn't seem to want to be kept. No relationship should take THIS much work. If it's right for both of you, it won't feel so complicated.
posted by Raichle at 12:04 PM on February 28, 2010
posted by Raichle at 12:04 PM on February 28, 2010
It sounds to me as if he wants a relationship with you only if it's on his terms. He wants you around when he wants to see you, and wants you to go away when he doesn't. He rewards you with good times when you comply, and punishes you with emotional withdrawal when you don't. If that's the case - then this isn't even a relationship. A relationship is a give and take situation - everyone should be getting most of what they want and need. You aren't, and he won't give it to you. I know you don't want DTMFA advice, but really, that's the only advice I can give you.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 12:05 PM on February 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by The Light Fantastic at 12:05 PM on February 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I've had two relationships in which I felt like this at one point. In one, he really just didn't want to be with me (at least, not when I was available to him). In the other, we solved it, not by changing the amount of time together, but by improving the quality of that time. We did this by going to therapy and defusing the tension that had been keeping us from being close. It took only four or five sessions; best $300 I ever spent. We couldn't have done it on our own. We were stuck in a pattern where I tried to improve things, and he didn't, but my attempts to improve things set off alarms for him. So, when I tried, he got tense, and when I didn't try (even for months and months), nothing got better. We needed someone else to try, who by nature of her professional relationship to him, could do it without alarming him. She defused the alarms and showed us both how they were getting set off, and she helped him understand some of what I was asking for in a way that he could hear better than my own requests. So, that's my advice: go to therapy if you want to make things better with him, otherwise give up and try to move on as soon as possible, because this is unlikely to change even through your best efforts.
posted by salvia at 12:14 PM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by salvia at 12:14 PM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Your boyfriend reminds me of a guy I used to date. He thought I was needy, and I thought he was way too cold and uninterested and just didn't make me feel wanted enough. It was a pretty miserable situation.
I never did manage to bring myself to break up with him, which I regret in retrospect. Ultimately, he broke up with me, in large part because he felt like he was totally incapable of making me happy and that fact was making him miserable too.
I'm now married to a different guy who makes me feel loved and cared for in a way I never realized could be possible.
I know you're not interested in advice on dumping him, so here are some suggestions on improving communication - can you narrow down what really makes you feel loved? Is it more about touch, or more about words, or more about sex, or what? If you can figure that out, try explaining to him what really helps you viscerally feel loved the most, so he understands the language you need him to speak for it to get through to you.
I understand the desire to really try everything before giving up. But it might help to give yourself some internal deadlines on when you will give up, if all else fails. Because just going on my personal experience, this sounds like a poisonously bad match for both of you.
posted by Eshkol at 1:31 PM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
I never did manage to bring myself to break up with him, which I regret in retrospect. Ultimately, he broke up with me, in large part because he felt like he was totally incapable of making me happy and that fact was making him miserable too.
I'm now married to a different guy who makes me feel loved and cared for in a way I never realized could be possible.
I know you're not interested in advice on dumping him, so here are some suggestions on improving communication - can you narrow down what really makes you feel loved? Is it more about touch, or more about words, or more about sex, or what? If you can figure that out, try explaining to him what really helps you viscerally feel loved the most, so he understands the language you need him to speak for it to get through to you.
I understand the desire to really try everything before giving up. But it might help to give yourself some internal deadlines on when you will give up, if all else fails. Because just going on my personal experience, this sounds like a poisonously bad match for both of you.
posted by Eshkol at 1:31 PM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
The fact that these issues have been so persistent during the initial year-and-change of your relationship makes me think that the connection you two have isn't a very good or strong one.
Please no DTMFA responses, as I'm wanting to do all I can to try to make this work before I break up with him
You probably already have done all you can to make things work.
Look, if I love someone -- even if I am having issues with them -- and they are a crying mess for days, or even at all, I would feel real pain and want to do something to make things better somehow. By acting like he doesn't care, he's telling you that he doesn't care. Or he is trying to train you to not depend on him. I don't know which is worse.
If your tears are for his benefit, so that he'll see you're in pain and do something differently, then you are wasting them. If they are for yourself, then let them motivate you to take action and iron this out without further delay.
posted by hermitosis at 2:59 PM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Please no DTMFA responses, as I'm wanting to do all I can to try to make this work before I break up with him
You probably already have done all you can to make things work.
Look, if I love someone -- even if I am having issues with them -- and they are a crying mess for days, or even at all, I would feel real pain and want to do something to make things better somehow. By acting like he doesn't care, he's telling you that he doesn't care. Or he is trying to train you to not depend on him. I don't know which is worse.
If your tears are for his benefit, so that he'll see you're in pain and do something differently, then you are wasting them. If they are for yourself, then let them motivate you to take action and iron this out without further delay.
posted by hermitosis at 2:59 PM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
This is a common relationship dynamic with people who fear intimacy for whatever reason. One fears engulfment and is distant, the other fears abandonment and is clingy, and each side pushes the others buttons. If the clingy one starts to become distant, then lo and behold the distant one starts to pursue them. All my relationships were like this for years, and I feel your pain. Healing means facing your fears and figuring out what happened to make you drawn to this type of situation. It also often means getting OUT of the situation, which is difficult because it's very addictive.
posted by cottonswab at 3:10 PM on February 28, 2010 [10 favorites]
posted by cottonswab at 3:10 PM on February 28, 2010 [10 favorites]
This post makes me sad. You're staying in a situation that someone else has, over time, set up to meet their wants/needs as much as possible with total disregard to what your wants/needs are. And you accept it it because of the scraps they through you now and then.
But it's your choice to do that, so on to your questions.
How do I correct an intimacy problem in a relationship?
Well first of all, this is not "an intimacy problem" in my opinion. IMO, this is a compatibility and selfishness problem.
It is a situation where one partner prefers one thing, and the other partner prefers something else. And rather than make a good faith effort to compromise and work out a solution where both partners would be happy, one partner has just, again, gradually set things up to meet his preferences to a greater and greater extent. He does not appear to have ANY intention of changing this even a little bit.
He will never be concerned with your needs being met anywhere close to how concerned he is with his own needs being met.
So if you withdraw again and give him a lot more alone time like you did before? All he will be concerned with is yet another of his needs being met, his OWN need to feel loved. You know, that need that he totally ignores as a matter of course when it comes to you.
So short answer, you can't. There is no way for YOU to correct this.
What can we do differently?
You know the answer to this.
And he knows the answer to this. He knows exactly what you want/need. However, for him to ever do that would require him to start giving your wants/needs equal importance to his. How likely is that? He sounds pathologically self centered. It's one thing to have your own preferences, not want to compromise them, and amicably agree to go your own separate ways. That's legit. But to keep someone hanging around with your goal to fulfill as few of their desires that you dont' feel like fulfilling as you possibly can- that's pretty messed up. I feel like that self centeredness a pretty fundamental trait. Maybe therapy would help if he ever wanted to change it, but it doesn't sound like he does. Maybe being dumped for this by a few people in a row might send him to therapy. But you don't want to hear that option, so okay.
The affection is gone, and I'd like to bring it back but I feel guilty because I know he wants more alone time.
Why do you feel guilty? He doesn't feel guilty about the fact that he knows you want more together time. You're both entitled to your own preferences. That in and of itself is not something to feel guilty about.
Please no DTMFA responses, as I'm wanting to do all I can to try to make this work before I break up with him ...
This is my attempt to give you a good-faith answer. Because I'm sorry, but you know what the right answer here is.
You can:
-Work out a deal with him where you will be seeking out the love and affection aspects of a relationship, outside your relationship with him.
I will not be surprised however if, as much as he doesn't want to give you affection himself, he won't want you getting it from any other guy
-Try even harder to make your needs fall within the area of things he "feels like" doing. Like, you could try just chatting with him over IM if you need him to talk to you, from another room. You could try playing games with him if he plays MMORPGS.
But I wouldn't be surprised if even that is "too much" for him.
-Try harder to totally squash your need for love and affection.
You might be able to convince yourself that you have done this. But, you'll needlessly waste a lot of time, months, years, or even decades, feeling an empty and upset twinge in the back of your mind, when you could have been in a relationship with someone else who would have given you those things happily!
Last thoughts:
Would you be surprised if there was another woman he was talking to/being romantic with online/in game? Would you necessarily know if that was going on? Honestly this rings all the loudest bells of a situation like that to me.
Have you ever considered therapy for yourself? I'm worried that there is some thought or belief or fear you have, that causes you to stay in incredibly crappy situations that don't fulfill your needs. I wouldn't want you to spend your whole life in strings of these situations when you really, really don't have to.
posted by Ashley801 at 3:27 PM on February 28, 2010 [5 favorites]
But it's your choice to do that, so on to your questions.
How do I correct an intimacy problem in a relationship?
Well first of all, this is not "an intimacy problem" in my opinion. IMO, this is a compatibility and selfishness problem.
It is a situation where one partner prefers one thing, and the other partner prefers something else. And rather than make a good faith effort to compromise and work out a solution where both partners would be happy, one partner has just, again, gradually set things up to meet his preferences to a greater and greater extent. He does not appear to have ANY intention of changing this even a little bit.
He will never be concerned with your needs being met anywhere close to how concerned he is with his own needs being met.
So if you withdraw again and give him a lot more alone time like you did before? All he will be concerned with is yet another of his needs being met, his OWN need to feel loved. You know, that need that he totally ignores as a matter of course when it comes to you.
So short answer, you can't. There is no way for YOU to correct this.
What can we do differently?
You know the answer to this.
And he knows the answer to this. He knows exactly what you want/need. However, for him to ever do that would require him to start giving your wants/needs equal importance to his. How likely is that? He sounds pathologically self centered. It's one thing to have your own preferences, not want to compromise them, and amicably agree to go your own separate ways. That's legit. But to keep someone hanging around with your goal to fulfill as few of their desires that you dont' feel like fulfilling as you possibly can- that's pretty messed up. I feel like that self centeredness a pretty fundamental trait. Maybe therapy would help if he ever wanted to change it, but it doesn't sound like he does. Maybe being dumped for this by a few people in a row might send him to therapy. But you don't want to hear that option, so okay.
The affection is gone, and I'd like to bring it back but I feel guilty because I know he wants more alone time.
Why do you feel guilty? He doesn't feel guilty about the fact that he knows you want more together time. You're both entitled to your own preferences. That in and of itself is not something to feel guilty about.
Please no DTMFA responses, as I'm wanting to do all I can to try to make this work before I break up with him ...
This is my attempt to give you a good-faith answer. Because I'm sorry, but you know what the right answer here is.
You can:
-Work out a deal with him where you will be seeking out the love and affection aspects of a relationship, outside your relationship with him.
I will not be surprised however if, as much as he doesn't want to give you affection himself, he won't want you getting it from any other guy
-Try even harder to make your needs fall within the area of things he "feels like" doing. Like, you could try just chatting with him over IM if you need him to talk to you, from another room. You could try playing games with him if he plays MMORPGS.
But I wouldn't be surprised if even that is "too much" for him.
-Try harder to totally squash your need for love and affection.
You might be able to convince yourself that you have done this. But, you'll needlessly waste a lot of time, months, years, or even decades, feeling an empty and upset twinge in the back of your mind, when you could have been in a relationship with someone else who would have given you those things happily!
Last thoughts:
Would you be surprised if there was another woman he was talking to/being romantic with online/in game? Would you necessarily know if that was going on? Honestly this rings all the loudest bells of a situation like that to me.
Have you ever considered therapy for yourself? I'm worried that there is some thought or belief or fear you have, that causes you to stay in incredibly crappy situations that don't fulfill your needs. I wouldn't want you to spend your whole life in strings of these situations when you really, really don't have to.
posted by Ashley801 at 3:27 PM on February 28, 2010 [5 favorites]
Now that I've thought for a moment, I feel like I didn't really get to the hard of this in my first answer. I hate to say this, but I don't think at all that the problem is that he is an introvert. I've seen introverts in love. I think the problem is that he is just not that into you and never has been. And never will be. He keeps you around for ...? Sex? Maybe. I really, really, REALLY would not be surprised if he's having some kind of thing with a woman online.
posted by Ashley801 at 3:35 PM on February 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Ashley801 at 3:35 PM on February 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Are you dating my ex boyfriend?! I was you, the sobbing girl except I spent 8 years with a guy who did a lot (and a lot worse) of the same thing your guy is doing. Eight years thinking if I just gave him his space or changed who I was he would finally want to spend some time with me and I'll tell you what I learnt. People don't change, and more than that, people show you who they are not by what they say but by what they do. And what your guy is showing you is that he's not interested in you and doesn't want to be with you. He can couch it in whatever terms he wants to get you to stick around (and he will, because it's convenient for him and feeds his ego to have someone whose constantly eager for whatever scraps of attention he deigns to feed you) but ultimately he doesn't really want a relationship.
When you eventually leave - and you will, even though it may take 8 years and you'll be bitter and angry and heartbroken, that's when he'll decide that he wants you back because you always want what you can't have, and because he'll have lost control of you. This guy is a selfish, toxic manipulator who only wants you when it's convenient for him. The fact that he's not the one here asking the question,'my girlfriend is miserable, how can I fix this and make her happy' says it all. He doesn't care, he never will until it's too late.
The good thing is that they're not all like this. Somewhere out there is a great guy who won't believe how lucky he is to have you and will go out of his way to let you know this constantly. I eventually found mine. Why would you waste another minute of your time with this one when your better future is out there waiting for you. Trust me, one day you'll look back on this guy and kick yourself for wasting so much time and emotional energy on him. You'll want to go back and shake that sobbing girl and tell her to wake up and leave. Be strong, do what you know you need to do - you can get through this.
posted by Jubey at 5:46 PM on February 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
When you eventually leave - and you will, even though it may take 8 years and you'll be bitter and angry and heartbroken, that's when he'll decide that he wants you back because you always want what you can't have, and because he'll have lost control of you. This guy is a selfish, toxic manipulator who only wants you when it's convenient for him. The fact that he's not the one here asking the question,'my girlfriend is miserable, how can I fix this and make her happy' says it all. He doesn't care, he never will until it's too late.
The good thing is that they're not all like this. Somewhere out there is a great guy who won't believe how lucky he is to have you and will go out of his way to let you know this constantly. I eventually found mine. Why would you waste another minute of your time with this one when your better future is out there waiting for you. Trust me, one day you'll look back on this guy and kick yourself for wasting so much time and emotional energy on him. You'll want to go back and shake that sobbing girl and tell her to wake up and leave. Be strong, do what you know you need to do - you can get through this.
posted by Jubey at 5:46 PM on February 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
Last thought:
Right now, we've only been talking about his resistance to/resentment of meeting your love/affection needs even halfway.
But is he like this with ALL your want/needs, when they don't dovetail with his?
What would happen if you needed to be driven to the hospital, when he was in the middle of a raid?
What would happen if your car broke down somewhere in the middle of the night when he was tired and sleeping and the weather was bad and/or had a raid?
What if you got pregnant? How would he be in relation to the child's wants/needs, when they conflicted with his?
I just think that the consequences of staying with him could end up being a lot more than just the one issue we're talking about in this question.
posted by Ashley801 at 7:16 PM on February 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
Right now, we've only been talking about his resistance to/resentment of meeting your love/affection needs even halfway.
But is he like this with ALL your want/needs, when they don't dovetail with his?
What would happen if you needed to be driven to the hospital, when he was in the middle of a raid?
What would happen if your car broke down somewhere in the middle of the night when he was tired and sleeping and the weather was bad and/or had a raid?
What if you got pregnant? How would he be in relation to the child's wants/needs, when they conflicted with his?
I just think that the consequences of staying with him could end up being a lot more than just the one issue we're talking about in this question.
posted by Ashley801 at 7:16 PM on February 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
Like others, I've been in this relationship, or one almost exactly like it-- right down to the having-him-complain-because-I-gave-him-the-space-he-said-he-wanted.
The solution was for us to mutually DTMFA. Seriously. There were some very compelling things about the relationship, but it had a crap dynamic that made both of us crappier people. We were in a vicious cycle in which one of us was constantly jabbing at the other one's buttons as though trying to find the "reset" switch for the relationship.
Many, many years later: I still really like this guy. (I don't mean "like" in that syrupy, pregnant, high school way-- I mean, I think he's bright, interesting, and a truly good egg.) From all appearances, he still really likes me. (Same caveats.) If we'd stayed together longer, I don't know if that would be true, and I'm very glad it is. We're married to different people now, and we're both doing cool things with our lives. 'S all good.
Back when I was in the throes of this thing, I really thought that I COULD NOT LEAVE because of our living situation. That was bull. It would have been a pain in the ass, but it wasn't like I was under house arrest or anything. And I will tell you this-- getting out, feeling the crappiness recede, and feeling my dignity and personhood recoalesce-- god damn, that was great. I can't recommend it enough. Living with a person who'd walk away from you when you're crying can really wear away at your soul.
Best of luck with all the stuff you're going through.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 8:34 PM on February 28, 2010
The solution was for us to mutually DTMFA. Seriously. There were some very compelling things about the relationship, but it had a crap dynamic that made both of us crappier people. We were in a vicious cycle in which one of us was constantly jabbing at the other one's buttons as though trying to find the "reset" switch for the relationship.
Many, many years later: I still really like this guy. (I don't mean "like" in that syrupy, pregnant, high school way-- I mean, I think he's bright, interesting, and a truly good egg.) From all appearances, he still really likes me. (Same caveats.) If we'd stayed together longer, I don't know if that would be true, and I'm very glad it is. We're married to different people now, and we're both doing cool things with our lives. 'S all good.
Back when I was in the throes of this thing, I really thought that I COULD NOT LEAVE because of our living situation. That was bull. It would have been a pain in the ass, but it wasn't like I was under house arrest or anything. And I will tell you this-- getting out, feeling the crappiness recede, and feeling my dignity and personhood recoalesce-- god damn, that was great. I can't recommend it enough. Living with a person who'd walk away from you when you're crying can really wear away at your soul.
Best of luck with all the stuff you're going through.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 8:34 PM on February 28, 2010
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Regardless, if you want to make this work you have to come to terms with the fact that he is an introvert. And will be. Forever and ever. Is that something you can live with? Because it doesn't seem like it.
posted by lakerk at 7:53 AM on February 28, 2010 [2 favorites]