How do I save my relationship?
July 12, 2008 4:19 PM Subscribe
Relationship-filter: How can I save the relationship that has slowly headed south until yesterday it reached breaking point? More details inside.
So, my fiancée and I have been together for over 3 years. We met when she was 14 and I was 19, but we didn't start going out until she was 18.
The relationship started well, but we quickly became one of those couples who always argued, although we always made it up and sorted it out.
I have serious anxiety issues when she wants to go out without me, and thus far, she has pretty much not gone out at night with her friends, although she has made do with seeing them in the day. For some reason, my anxiety doesn't affect me in the day, it's just when she goes out at night.
We have recently started working on a cruise ship so we are living in each other's pockets 24 hours a day, with basically no time to ourselves, except when she goes to the gym, or I go for a walk around the ship.
We have been having many arguments, mainly about stupid little things, but the other day we had a massive row which culminated in her telling me that she feels trapped, that something has snapped inside her, she doesn't know if she wants me any more, that she doesn't know how she feels about me, and that she needs lots of space to see if she wants to try to resolve our issues.
We talked endlessly about this, and initially she said that she was willing to give it another go. Being the stupid dumb-ass that I am, I couldn't just shut up then, so I carried on talking to her about it, asking her to reassure me everything would be okay, and she eventually said that she could not do that. She hasn't been sleeping for the last few nights, is off her food, complains of a headache, and says that she feels completely run down, restless, and rebellious over all this.
She went to the crew bar yesterday on her own for a few hours and came back in a much better mood, gave me a cuddle, said sorry, etc, but today it has been a completely different story. We've not really argued as such today, but stupid old me did bring up the issue again, which culminated in an argument, and then we had to go to work.
When we came back from work I basically stood next to her and said, "Look, I respect that you need your space and I want you to know that that's fine. I'm not going to touch you, cuddle you, kiss you or anything, because I don't know if that's what you want. If you want those things to happen, then you will have to make them happen because I don't know if it's the right thing"
She responded with "You don't have to not touch me or cuddle me. But thanks, I really appreciate you saying that".
Then we went to work again.
We just came back from work, and she said she was going for a drink. Instead of being my usual self, and flipping out about it and trying to not make her go, I just said "Ok... See you later", to which she went, and told me that she loved me.
I've just come to the internet room on-board to post this question, which I guess is this: How do I save my relationship? What do I do to show her that I've realised that what I am doing is wrong, that I will do anything I can to save our relationship, that I want to get over my anxieties and fears, and make her feel like herself again?
Or is this just plain stupid, and it's inevitable that we're going to split up, which would mean that we were still living on a ship in one cabin together, with a double bed for the next 3 months?
Please help me hive mind! I need my baby back!
So, my fiancée and I have been together for over 3 years. We met when she was 14 and I was 19, but we didn't start going out until she was 18.
The relationship started well, but we quickly became one of those couples who always argued, although we always made it up and sorted it out.
I have serious anxiety issues when she wants to go out without me, and thus far, she has pretty much not gone out at night with her friends, although she has made do with seeing them in the day. For some reason, my anxiety doesn't affect me in the day, it's just when she goes out at night.
We have recently started working on a cruise ship so we are living in each other's pockets 24 hours a day, with basically no time to ourselves, except when she goes to the gym, or I go for a walk around the ship.
We have been having many arguments, mainly about stupid little things, but the other day we had a massive row which culminated in her telling me that she feels trapped, that something has snapped inside her, she doesn't know if she wants me any more, that she doesn't know how she feels about me, and that she needs lots of space to see if she wants to try to resolve our issues.
We talked endlessly about this, and initially she said that she was willing to give it another go. Being the stupid dumb-ass that I am, I couldn't just shut up then, so I carried on talking to her about it, asking her to reassure me everything would be okay, and she eventually said that she could not do that. She hasn't been sleeping for the last few nights, is off her food, complains of a headache, and says that she feels completely run down, restless, and rebellious over all this.
She went to the crew bar yesterday on her own for a few hours and came back in a much better mood, gave me a cuddle, said sorry, etc, but today it has been a completely different story. We've not really argued as such today, but stupid old me did bring up the issue again, which culminated in an argument, and then we had to go to work.
When we came back from work I basically stood next to her and said, "Look, I respect that you need your space and I want you to know that that's fine. I'm not going to touch you, cuddle you, kiss you or anything, because I don't know if that's what you want. If you want those things to happen, then you will have to make them happen because I don't know if it's the right thing"
She responded with "You don't have to not touch me or cuddle me. But thanks, I really appreciate you saying that".
Then we went to work again.
We just came back from work, and she said she was going for a drink. Instead of being my usual self, and flipping out about it and trying to not make her go, I just said "Ok... See you later", to which she went, and told me that she loved me.
I've just come to the internet room on-board to post this question, which I guess is this: How do I save my relationship? What do I do to show her that I've realised that what I am doing is wrong, that I will do anything I can to save our relationship, that I want to get over my anxieties and fears, and make her feel like herself again?
Or is this just plain stupid, and it's inevitable that we're going to split up, which would mean that we were still living on a ship in one cabin together, with a double bed for the next 3 months?
Please help me hive mind! I need my baby back!
I'd feel pretty trapped if I was stuck working and sleeping 24/7 even with someone for whom I felt nothing but affection, let alone if I was having second thoughts about my commitment to my partner. The best thing you can do for her is to give her the space that she needs and to stop asking her for reassurance when she expresses her need for this space. She has to be able to do her own thing without having to ask you for permission to be herself. She also has to be able to do her own thing without feeling like she's putting you out.
You need to let go of your anxiety over her going out at night, period. It's an untrusting attitude that could quite possibly engender the problem you had been fearing, and if you can't trust her to be safe and faithful at night by herself, then you have some work on your own plate. It's good that you're making progress in this department.
Whose idea was it to work on a cruise ship in such close, isolated quarters? Is there any way to cut out of this responsibility early?
posted by Sticherbeast at 4:37 PM on July 12, 2008
You need to let go of your anxiety over her going out at night, period. It's an untrusting attitude that could quite possibly engender the problem you had been fearing, and if you can't trust her to be safe and faithful at night by herself, then you have some work on your own plate. It's good that you're making progress in this department.
Whose idea was it to work on a cruise ship in such close, isolated quarters? Is there any way to cut out of this responsibility early?
posted by Sticherbeast at 4:37 PM on July 12, 2008
So, she's 21 and started dating you when she was 18. It just seems like this is one of those breakups that you go through when you're 21 and have been dating someone since you were 18.
That said your best hope is just let her come to you from now on.
posted by Airhen at 4:39 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
That said your best hope is just let her come to you from now on.
posted by Airhen at 4:39 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
It's great that you're admitting to you mistakes, and I'm not trying to grind it in, but you're acting like a child. Bothersome children whine and complain until they get what they want. Asking and demanding that she reassure you over and over is such childish, unattractive behavior.
Your anxiety at night is your problem, not hers. Do you trust your girlfriend? I am quite honestly amazed that she has stayed this long. Not too many women are going to tolerate being told what to do and when they can do it. This is controlling behavior that is extremely unfair and destructive to the both of you.
Or is this just plain stupid, and it's inevitable that we're going to split up, which would mean that we were still living on a ship in one cabin together, with a double bed for the next 3 months?
No one on AskMe can predict whether your relationship ends or continues.
Asking this question should not give you sound bites that you can bring back to your girlfriend to win her back. This question should help you on your way to being an adult in a relationship. It's not all about you and your anxieties. Start treating her with respect and as an equal partner.
posted by LoriFLA at 4:42 PM on July 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
Your anxiety at night is your problem, not hers. Do you trust your girlfriend? I am quite honestly amazed that she has stayed this long. Not too many women are going to tolerate being told what to do and when they can do it. This is controlling behavior that is extremely unfair and destructive to the both of you.
Or is this just plain stupid, and it's inevitable that we're going to split up, which would mean that we were still living on a ship in one cabin together, with a double bed for the next 3 months?
No one on AskMe can predict whether your relationship ends or continues.
Asking this question should not give you sound bites that you can bring back to your girlfriend to win her back. This question should help you on your way to being an adult in a relationship. It's not all about you and your anxieties. Start treating her with respect and as an equal partner.
posted by LoriFLA at 4:42 PM on July 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
If you remain afraid for her to go out without you this relationship is over. You truly are smothering her. Perhaps you should see a shrink to explore the insecurities that cause you to feel this way.
posted by caddis at 4:43 PM on July 12, 2008
posted by caddis at 4:43 PM on July 12, 2008
Also, less pithily than my original comment:
I have serious anxiety issues when she wants to go out without me, and thus far, she has pretty much not gone out at night with her friends, although she has made do with seeing them in the day.
You're saying that, from ages 18 to 21, she's never been able to go out with her friends at night because of your separation anxiety????
Dude.
You apparently got to spend ages 18-23 (when you were waiting for her to become legal) having that first taste of "grown up" fun out with your friends--she has completely missed out on this so far because of you. If she feels like she has to choose between you and a normal developmental stage of her life, you know what her only healthy choice will have to be.
Try separate cabins. Try giving her some space to grow. She's suffocating. This is your only hope of getting her back at some point.
posted by availablelight at 4:51 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
I have serious anxiety issues when she wants to go out without me, and thus far, she has pretty much not gone out at night with her friends, although she has made do with seeing them in the day.
You're saying that, from ages 18 to 21, she's never been able to go out with her friends at night because of your separation anxiety????
Dude.
You apparently got to spend ages 18-23 (when you were waiting for her to become legal) having that first taste of "grown up" fun out with your friends--she has completely missed out on this so far because of you. If she feels like she has to choose between you and a normal developmental stage of her life, you know what her only healthy choice will have to be.
Try separate cabins. Try giving her some space to grow. She's suffocating. This is your only hope of getting her back at some point.
posted by availablelight at 4:51 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
"Look, I respect that you need your space and I want you to know that that's fine. I'm not going to touch you, cuddle you, kiss you or anything, because I don't know if that's what you want. If you want those things to happen, then you will have to make them happen because I don't know if it's the right thing"
You need to give her space, and that's the exact wrong way to do it. If my boyfriend said that sentence to me after an argument, I'd think he was being passive aggressive. That's probably not what you intend, but that's what the result will be. You don't need to stop showing physical affection, you need to let her be her own person. Be affectionate with her, first off. Forcing her to make all the effort is a sure way to doom everything.
Second, find a way to be okay with her going out on her own. I know this sounds kind of callous, but your anxiety is your problem, not hers. Forcing her to bend over backwards just so you don't have to deal with the hard questions about your issues is a sure way to doom things. Figure out where your anxiety is coming from, and maybe see a therapist if you need to when you get off the boat. But this is the biggest problem you've got and it's time to work on it, don't just try to quick-fix it by not letting her go out by herself.
I suggest you find a way to not be in your room as much as you might be. You say that "we are living in each other's pockets 24 hours a day, with basically no time to ourselves" and that's a problem. If she doesn't feel comfortable in your room then you've got serious problems. Go to the gym, hang out in the employee lounge, meet new friends, do whatever. The important thing is that you develop a life outside of your girlfriend. She should still be the most important part, but now you're clinging to her like a life boat because she's the only thing you have. If you have something else it will be easier to let her have some space.
posted by lilac girl at 4:59 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
You need to give her space, and that's the exact wrong way to do it. If my boyfriend said that sentence to me after an argument, I'd think he was being passive aggressive. That's probably not what you intend, but that's what the result will be. You don't need to stop showing physical affection, you need to let her be her own person. Be affectionate with her, first off. Forcing her to make all the effort is a sure way to doom everything.
Second, find a way to be okay with her going out on her own. I know this sounds kind of callous, but your anxiety is your problem, not hers. Forcing her to bend over backwards just so you don't have to deal with the hard questions about your issues is a sure way to doom things. Figure out where your anxiety is coming from, and maybe see a therapist if you need to when you get off the boat. But this is the biggest problem you've got and it's time to work on it, don't just try to quick-fix it by not letting her go out by herself.
I suggest you find a way to not be in your room as much as you might be. You say that "we are living in each other's pockets 24 hours a day, with basically no time to ourselves" and that's a problem. If she doesn't feel comfortable in your room then you've got serious problems. Go to the gym, hang out in the employee lounge, meet new friends, do whatever. The important thing is that you develop a life outside of your girlfriend. She should still be the most important part, but now you're clinging to her like a life boat because she's the only thing you have. If you have something else it will be easier to let her have some space.
posted by lilac girl at 4:59 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
If you "flip out" at her to prevent her from ever spending time apart from you then she should run far and fast because you are an abusive boyfriend. I'm not being flip - I am dead serious. Your behavior toward your girlfriend is described in psychology textbooks. You need to stop behaving that way, whether or not this relationship lasts, and in the short term, stop haranguing her about whether everything's ok. Everything has to be ok for now because you're trapped together on a ship - there's no way to resolve anything until this trip is over, so let her hang out with her friends and stop manufacturing drama to keep her around.
posted by moxiedoll at 5:11 PM on July 12, 2008 [8 favorites]
posted by moxiedoll at 5:11 PM on July 12, 2008 [8 favorites]
You should both start seeing other people as soon as possible. That way you will either eventually be back together for good and your relationship will have grown- or you will break up for good - which would also be for the better.
This really is the only way you're going to be able to figure this whole thing out.
You both need some "other people" time.
posted by Zambrano at 5:12 PM on July 12, 2008
You seem a little too immature and insecure to be engaged to anyone, in my opinion. I can't say as much about her based on what you've provided, but this relationship seems very childish in general. And though it's common enough, to be engaged at 21 and 24 is a bit senseless, and I think that given that you've been her only adult companion, you probably are suffocating her and acting emotionally controlling. I'd say give it up. Lilac Girl and Moxiedoll make good points. You need to grow up and rid yourself of your issues, and the only way you can do that correctly is by not dragging her along for the ride.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 5:21 PM on July 12, 2008
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 5:21 PM on July 12, 2008
You are smothering this girl like a wet blanket. If you don't trust her to go out without you, well that says it all to me. You don't trust her and your relationship is busted. You need to find someone to talk to about your insecurities. She wants a life outside of your relationship and that is normal. Do your best to give her some space right now and ride it out and get the hell off that ship ASAP. Whether you're together or not at that point, I think it'd be best for you two.
posted by CwgrlUp at 5:21 PM on July 12, 2008
posted by CwgrlUp at 5:21 PM on July 12, 2008
Response by poster: Hi...
Thanks for all the replies so far. I completely agree with every single one of them. I know that these issues are mine, and not hers, and I know that I need some help to get over them.
We worked on a cruise ship before last year, and everything was pretty much okay. Having said that, we were on in a passenger cabin, were not allowed into any crew areas at all, and there was no place to hang out anyway.
To Sticherbeast: Unfortunately, there is no way to get out of the contract early. I could walk off the ship, but that would leave her here doing our job on her own, and she hasn't got the equipment to do that (we're entertainers and all the equipment we use is mine).
To Caddis: I would sincerely love to see a shrink to talk through my problems. I'm pretty sure I know where they stem from myself; I had a girlfriend who was raped when she went out once, and also, although it doesn't seem truly connected, I was in my parents' house alone when we were burgled. I think that makes me not want to be alone, and scared of something bad happening to my SO. Unfortunately, there is no shrink on-board the ship and I don't think I could get an appointment in England when we return every 2 weeks or so because it is a weekend.
To Lilac Girl: It probably was the wrong way to do it, but at the time I thought it best to say something! I'm not making excuses, I just wanted her to know it was okay. I only said about not being affectionate with her because she said that she didn't like it earlier in the day. She said I just needed to be normal with her, and not try to over-compensate by telling her I love her, giving her more cuddles, etc.
I have been going out of the cabin as much as I can, to give her that much-needed time on her own, and have resisted any temptation to go where she is to see what she's up to.
To be perfectly 100% honest, I do not know if I trust her 100%. She has told me that she is not going to find someone else, but when we got together she was with someone at the time, and although nothing happened between us until that was finished, she spent lots of time with me then, and we did kiss quite a few times.
I really want to sort this out and make her happy. I'm not really too bothered if I just have to 'get-over' my problems... I'm willing to do this to cling on to any chance we might have.
Any more thoughts would be truly appreciated!
Thanks MeFites!
posted by mdavis1982 at 5:25 PM on July 12, 2008
Thanks for all the replies so far. I completely agree with every single one of them. I know that these issues are mine, and not hers, and I know that I need some help to get over them.
We worked on a cruise ship before last year, and everything was pretty much okay. Having said that, we were on in a passenger cabin, were not allowed into any crew areas at all, and there was no place to hang out anyway.
To Sticherbeast: Unfortunately, there is no way to get out of the contract early. I could walk off the ship, but that would leave her here doing our job on her own, and she hasn't got the equipment to do that (we're entertainers and all the equipment we use is mine).
To Caddis: I would sincerely love to see a shrink to talk through my problems. I'm pretty sure I know where they stem from myself; I had a girlfriend who was raped when she went out once, and also, although it doesn't seem truly connected, I was in my parents' house alone when we were burgled. I think that makes me not want to be alone, and scared of something bad happening to my SO. Unfortunately, there is no shrink on-board the ship and I don't think I could get an appointment in England when we return every 2 weeks or so because it is a weekend.
To Lilac Girl: It probably was the wrong way to do it, but at the time I thought it best to say something! I'm not making excuses, I just wanted her to know it was okay. I only said about not being affectionate with her because she said that she didn't like it earlier in the day. She said I just needed to be normal with her, and not try to over-compensate by telling her I love her, giving her more cuddles, etc.
I have been going out of the cabin as much as I can, to give her that much-needed time on her own, and have resisted any temptation to go where she is to see what she's up to.
To be perfectly 100% honest, I do not know if I trust her 100%. She has told me that she is not going to find someone else, but when we got together she was with someone at the time, and although nothing happened between us until that was finished, she spent lots of time with me then, and we did kiss quite a few times.
I really want to sort this out and make her happy. I'm not really too bothered if I just have to 'get-over' my problems... I'm willing to do this to cling on to any chance we might have.
Any more thoughts would be truly appreciated!
Thanks MeFites!
posted by mdavis1982 at 5:25 PM on July 12, 2008
You guys really, really sound like one or both of you needs to get out of the middle of the ocean and back onto dry land. If you are, in fact, the sort of couple who argues all the time over petty stuff and then blows up at each other about deep interpersonal stuff that you can't find other ways to express...
...you've pretty much picked the one environment on this planet that will make that utterly intolerable for both of you, short of a Bering Sea crab boat. Not only are you living out of one another's pockets, but you're doing so in a really limited population of people who have nothing better to do with their time than customer service and drama, not always in that order. Eventually, that will spill over into your private lives, such as they are, and make you even more miserable.
Whichever one of you wanted this setup more should probably be the one to stay on the boat. However, you both need to get some realistic physical and mental distance from the relationship right now and figure out how to communicate without trying to fight to the death over every little thing.
She can't really *get* that far away from you, man, she's literally in the same boat. Breathe, and give her some room to breathe too-- even if that means finding some way out of the current setup.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 5:25 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
...you've pretty much picked the one environment on this planet that will make that utterly intolerable for both of you, short of a Bering Sea crab boat. Not only are you living out of one another's pockets, but you're doing so in a really limited population of people who have nothing better to do with their time than customer service and drama, not always in that order. Eventually, that will spill over into your private lives, such as they are, and make you even more miserable.
Whichever one of you wanted this setup more should probably be the one to stay on the boat. However, you both need to get some realistic physical and mental distance from the relationship right now and figure out how to communicate without trying to fight to the death over every little thing.
She can't really *get* that far away from you, man, she's literally in the same boat. Breathe, and give her some room to breathe too-- even if that means finding some way out of the current setup.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 5:25 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
First of all, your relationship probably isn't going to survive, like the vast majority of relationships people start in their teens, particularly at the point when one of the participants is basically a kid who is rightly in the world of woo-hoo discover myself in the world of limitless possibilities while the other is heading into full-on adult pushing-thirty holy fuck I gotta settle down and figure out what I'm all about territory. So when you're done hyperventilating over that maybe get some perspective, you're young and life goes on. But either way you better come to terms with that possibility because your relationship has zero possibility of surviving unless you release your desperate, drowning man's death grip on it.
So on the off chance maybe you're situation is exceptional (your situation is exceptional, right?): you ARE smothering her. She feels trapped because she IS trapped. "Thus far, she has pretty much not gone out at night with her friends"? That's bullshit. She's fed up making concessions to your anxiety because your anxiety is bullshit. Nobody deserves to put up with that for three years. Any right-thinking person will tell you that's fucked. The reason I think your relationship's chances are very poor is that she has made huge, unfair concessions to you for years and she's in prime time for wanting to go out and have fun and party, and I don't think you can handle her getting that phase out of her system, which she absolutely needs to.
You want her to have her space so you are going to show that by telling her that you are withholding any display of affection until she proves her feelings by initiating it? And your concept of reality is so twisted that I believe you actually believe that this was motivated by a loving feeling. Here's a crazy thought: how about showing her you're serious about her having her space by, hmm, giving her her space? As in saying, honey, I see how it was so positive for you to be able to get out and be on your own the other night, even though it makes me anxious I want to work on that and I want you to go out when you want to because I know I can trust you. You up for that?
Either you deal with your anxiety over her having freedom when she needs it and find the strength within yourself to let her have a real life of her own outside of it (and with it the danger that that life could draw her away from the life she has with you) or else - if you really love her - you let go of her gracefully, with love, so she can have the normal freedom of life any girl in her early twenties naturally and rightly wants without having to be made to feel guilty about it, and you can look for a nice homebody who wants to settle down. I'm honestly not saying that disparagingly - but you have to be able to allow her a normal life. Regularly going out in the evenings on one's own is a normal thing. And yeah, your losing her is a possible outcome of this strategy. The risk is real, I won't bullshit you about that. But losing her is an absolute certainty of the course you're plotting right now.
And get off that fucking boat as soon as possible. It's a terrible venue for your particular pathology.
posted by nanojath at 5:34 PM on July 12, 2008 [4 favorites]
So on the off chance maybe you're situation is exceptional (your situation is exceptional, right?): you ARE smothering her. She feels trapped because she IS trapped. "Thus far, she has pretty much not gone out at night with her friends"? That's bullshit. She's fed up making concessions to your anxiety because your anxiety is bullshit. Nobody deserves to put up with that for three years. Any right-thinking person will tell you that's fucked. The reason I think your relationship's chances are very poor is that she has made huge, unfair concessions to you for years and she's in prime time for wanting to go out and have fun and party, and I don't think you can handle her getting that phase out of her system, which she absolutely needs to.
You want her to have her space so you are going to show that by telling her that you are withholding any display of affection until she proves her feelings by initiating it? And your concept of reality is so twisted that I believe you actually believe that this was motivated by a loving feeling. Here's a crazy thought: how about showing her you're serious about her having her space by, hmm, giving her her space? As in saying, honey, I see how it was so positive for you to be able to get out and be on your own the other night, even though it makes me anxious I want to work on that and I want you to go out when you want to because I know I can trust you. You up for that?
Either you deal with your anxiety over her having freedom when she needs it and find the strength within yourself to let her have a real life of her own outside of it (and with it the danger that that life could draw her away from the life she has with you) or else - if you really love her - you let go of her gracefully, with love, so she can have the normal freedom of life any girl in her early twenties naturally and rightly wants without having to be made to feel guilty about it, and you can look for a nice homebody who wants to settle down. I'm honestly not saying that disparagingly - but you have to be able to allow her a normal life. Regularly going out in the evenings on one's own is a normal thing. And yeah, your losing her is a possible outcome of this strategy. The risk is real, I won't bullshit you about that. But losing her is an absolute certainty of the course you're plotting right now.
And get off that fucking boat as soon as possible. It's a terrible venue for your particular pathology.
posted by nanojath at 5:34 PM on July 12, 2008 [4 favorites]
If you want to stay together (and it sounds like both of you do, at the moment). You need to set down with her and tell her that you finally understand that it is important to the health of your relationship that she has more space and you would like to do what you can to make this work better for both of you. Then ask her "I would like to brainstorm with you how to save our relationship. For now, don't worry about my feelings. What would you like out relationship to look like? What kinds of things might give you more space? They don't have to be good ideas - let's just think of many different things as we can" And then just listen to her answer, only questions to make sure you understand. After a while, throw in some ideas you think might work. Maybe make a list as you go. Include all the advice on this list (whether you like it or not but to see what her reaction is and then maybe find a related, better option. Then, once you have both put out as many ideas as you can, pick out which ones might work. Be prepared to agreeing to go outside of your comfort zone - the whole point is to figure out how you can demonstrate an ability to be a boyfriend but not a trap.
If you can't have a discussion about how to make this work without fighting, then I think the odds are very much against this working out.
posted by metahawk at 5:37 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
If you can't have a discussion about how to make this work without fighting, then I think the odds are very much against this working out.
posted by metahawk at 5:37 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
I need my baby back!
She's not a baby. She's a grown woman. Start treating her like one.
Either you can respect her adult need for independence or you can lose her. It's really that simple.
posted by 26.2 at 5:41 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
She's not a baby. She's a grown woman. Start treating her like one.
Either you can respect her adult need for independence or you can lose her. It's really that simple.
posted by 26.2 at 5:41 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
I am with moxiedoll. Your behavior is abusive and, as a survivor of an abusive relationship, it freaks me out.
It's lovely that you're here asking for help (i.e., trying to figure out how say the right things to get what you want), but if you really cared about this girl you flat out wouldn't treat her this way to begin with. I mean, come on. Wouldn't anyone who loves your girlfriend hope that she gets free of you?
If you actually care about this girl, you'd tell her how sorry you were, walk off the ship and leave her the equipment she needs to do her job, and get a lot of help.
posted by elvedon at 5:53 PM on July 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
It's lovely that you're here asking for help (i.e., trying to figure out how say the right things to get what you want), but if you really cared about this girl you flat out wouldn't treat her this way to begin with. I mean, come on. Wouldn't anyone who loves your girlfriend hope that she gets free of you?
If you actually care about this girl, you'd tell her how sorry you were, walk off the ship and leave her the equipment she needs to do her job, and get a lot of help.
posted by elvedon at 5:53 PM on July 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
Nowhere in your post does it seem like her happiness matters to you. Nowhere in your post does it seem that your happiness is independent of your relationship with her. In fact you are completely dependent on her for your happiness, and making her miserable in the process. Reflect on that for a good long while. Is that what you would call love?
You are trying to avoid the anxiety and pain of her possibly leaving you. The more you avoid it (by seeking reassurance, by trying to control her) the worse the monster seems. Anxiety and pain and hurt and rejection are NORMAL and INEVITABLE parts of life, and you will experience true freedom when you stop running from them. You will also see that they're not as bad as you thought they were. They will not kill you. Being away from her will not kill you. Even if she cheats on you, leaves you, it will not kill you. You have a choice in all this. This situation is not controlling you. You control it. Don't come here asking what you should do, because you already know. You just don't want to because you are afraid of the potential result. Do what's right in spite of the fear. If you truly love her, you'll do what's right for your fiancee's happiness. If you don't, then you don't really love her and you should let her go anyway.
posted by desjardins at 5:57 PM on July 12, 2008 [20 favorites]
You are trying to avoid the anxiety and pain of her possibly leaving you. The more you avoid it (by seeking reassurance, by trying to control her) the worse the monster seems. Anxiety and pain and hurt and rejection are NORMAL and INEVITABLE parts of life, and you will experience true freedom when you stop running from them. You will also see that they're not as bad as you thought they were. They will not kill you. Being away from her will not kill you. Even if she cheats on you, leaves you, it will not kill you. You have a choice in all this. This situation is not controlling you. You control it. Don't come here asking what you should do, because you already know. You just don't want to because you are afraid of the potential result. Do what's right in spite of the fear. If you truly love her, you'll do what's right for your fiancee's happiness. If you don't, then you don't really love her and you should let her go anyway.
posted by desjardins at 5:57 PM on July 12, 2008 [20 favorites]
If I could favorite desjardins' answer a thousand times, I would, because every word of it is the honest-to-god truth.
You have put your fear of the pain implicit in breaking up (and the fear of subsequently being single) in control of yourself and your girlfriend. This is a recipe for lifelong unhappiness, whether together or alone.
posted by scody at 6:06 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
You have put your fear of the pain implicit in breaking up (and the fear of subsequently being single) in control of yourself and your girlfriend. This is a recipe for lifelong unhappiness, whether together or alone.
posted by scody at 6:06 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
I cross-posted with you, mdavis1982, and my response is a lot harsher and assumes less self-awareness and attempt to make appropriate concessions than it would have been if I had hit preview, but (coming from a somewhat analogous experience of having a very disparate social needs spectrum from my now wife of 7 years (I'm the homebody, she's the socializer) and myself having been treated for anxiety and depression) - the spirit of my answer remains substantially the same. You sound so desperate to preserve this relationship at any cost but it is that very desperation that is as the core of why she feels trapped, and it is going to come through in the way you interact with her no matter what you do or say about her having her freedom, and it's at the root of your fighting. You want a guarantee from her that you won't lose her. You can't have that, it's not reality. Letting someone go out to make sure they won't leave you isn't giving them their freedom. For that matter, you might do well to find some reasons for yourself to get out and away from her. It seems like everything you do is about holding on to the relationship. What do you do for yourself, where are you in the equation? Where is your independent life? You're still smothering this thing.
posted by nanojath at 6:07 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by nanojath at 6:07 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm not really too bothered if I just have to 'get-over' my problems...
Yes, you are. You talk about the problems that you have, but you haven't really accepted that they are problems or are the cause of this girl falling out of love with you. This is your fault, you are smothering her and being, as others have noted, abusive.
Do the girl a favor and find a way to get the hell away from her, once you sort your own shit out is when you are ready to give it another go.
posted by Loto at 6:08 PM on July 12, 2008
Yes, you are. You talk about the problems that you have, but you haven't really accepted that they are problems or are the cause of this girl falling out of love with you. This is your fault, you are smothering her and being, as others have noted, abusive.
Do the girl a favor and find a way to get the hell away from her, once you sort your own shit out is when you are ready to give it another go.
posted by Loto at 6:08 PM on July 12, 2008
And yeah, desjardins said it nicer and better than I could in about a tenth the space. Read through what she said a couple times because it's spot on.
posted by nanojath at 6:26 PM on July 12, 2008
posted by nanojath at 6:26 PM on July 12, 2008
To be perfectly 100% honest, I do not know if I trust her 100%.
Cripes, if this is the case, why are you still with her? Because you can control her? You are one maladjusted person.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 7:19 PM on July 12, 2008
Cripes, if this is the case, why are you still with her? Because you can control her? You are one maladjusted person.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 7:19 PM on July 12, 2008
To Sticherbeast: Unfortunately, there is no way to get out of the contract early. I could walk off the ship, but that would leave her here doing our job on her own, and she hasn't got the equipment to do that (we're entertainers and all the equipment we use is mine).
Thanks for the response, but you never answered my question: whose idea was it to go work on cruise ships? Was it your idea? It's interesting that the equipment is yours, at any rate. She's trapped, having the relationship you want, having to use your equipment to work, in a cabin while at sea, miles away from any other social contact she could have. Also, is it conceivable that she might want to get off the ship herself? What does she think about all this? Is there any way she could use your equipment while you each cool your respective heels?
Read desjardins' comment for some very good advice. Also, I agree with the others that you are being emotionally abusive to this person, but I also give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are not a bad person, that you mean no harm, and that your relationship issues are tied pretty closely with those two very traumatic experiences you suffered. Until you get over these issues, though, you won't be able to treat people as you should.
Again, it's very encouraging that you are trying to give her the space she needs. You seem to mean well, but that ship sounds like a ship of madness. She won't ever truly get the space she needs until at least one of you is off that ship. To be perfectly honest, I wonder if it's possible for HER to leave the ship. You could make a sacrifice for the woman you love and try to do your work by yourself for three months while she sorts some stuff out. If you're not willing to make that sacrifice, not even in theory, then I don't know what to say to you. Well, I do, but you wouldn't want to hear it.
To be perfectly 100% honest, I do not know if I trust her 100%.
What do you suppose this means?
She has told me that she is not going to find someone else, but when we got together she was with someone at the time, and although nothing happened between us until that was finished, she spent lots of time with me then, and we did kiss quite a few times.
You do realize that there's a blatant contradiction mid-sentence here? Either way, my not-terribly-optimistic-but-I-think-pretty-realistic advice is that a great way to prevent her from cheating on you and breaking your heart is to let her go gracefully, with care, while the two of you explore the world and grow as people. The point in your life right now should not be to "save" this relationship, but for the both of you to be happy. That may involve being apart.
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:04 PM on July 12, 2008
Thanks for the response, but you never answered my question: whose idea was it to go work on cruise ships? Was it your idea? It's interesting that the equipment is yours, at any rate. She's trapped, having the relationship you want, having to use your equipment to work, in a cabin while at sea, miles away from any other social contact she could have. Also, is it conceivable that she might want to get off the ship herself? What does she think about all this? Is there any way she could use your equipment while you each cool your respective heels?
Read desjardins' comment for some very good advice. Also, I agree with the others that you are being emotionally abusive to this person, but I also give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are not a bad person, that you mean no harm, and that your relationship issues are tied pretty closely with those two very traumatic experiences you suffered. Until you get over these issues, though, you won't be able to treat people as you should.
Again, it's very encouraging that you are trying to give her the space she needs. You seem to mean well, but that ship sounds like a ship of madness. She won't ever truly get the space she needs until at least one of you is off that ship. To be perfectly honest, I wonder if it's possible for HER to leave the ship. You could make a sacrifice for the woman you love and try to do your work by yourself for three months while she sorts some stuff out. If you're not willing to make that sacrifice, not even in theory, then I don't know what to say to you. Well, I do, but you wouldn't want to hear it.
To be perfectly 100% honest, I do not know if I trust her 100%.
What do you suppose this means?
She has told me that she is not going to find someone else, but when we got together she was with someone at the time, and although nothing happened between us until that was finished, she spent lots of time with me then, and we did kiss quite a few times.
You do realize that there's a blatant contradiction mid-sentence here? Either way, my not-terribly-optimistic-but-I-think-pretty-realistic advice is that a great way to prevent her from cheating on you and breaking your heart is to let her go gracefully, with care, while the two of you explore the world and grow as people. The point in your life right now should not be to "save" this relationship, but for the both of you to be happy. That may involve being apart.
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:04 PM on July 12, 2008
I think you both know what needs to be done, but you're tied in practicalities. There's the heartbreak that comes with breaking up: it hurts, and there isn't really a way to avoid it. You're on a ship together. You need to talk about this honestly, without apologizing for what either one of you is saying, and figure out what you're going to be doing. If she wants to stay with you, then you need to figure out together how that's going to happen. Metafites can't give you a better answer, or a better perspective, than she can.
posted by OLechat at 8:18 PM on July 12, 2008
posted by OLechat at 8:18 PM on July 12, 2008
So you don't trust her because she left another guy for you, even though she has never betrayed you in any way and isn't even allowed to go out with friends at night? That seems more than a little unfair.
But it seems like you KNOW that you're being unfair, smothering, and irrational. So it follows that you KNOW the right thing to do... give your girlfriend the space she has requested of you. Let her know that you love her, and that her happiness is important to you, and that you'll understand and support any decision she makes with regards to your relationship. The old adage "if you love something, set it free" seems designed for your situation.
posted by arianell at 8:42 PM on July 12, 2008
But it seems like you KNOW that you're being unfair, smothering, and irrational. So it follows that you KNOW the right thing to do... give your girlfriend the space she has requested of you. Let her know that you love her, and that her happiness is important to you, and that you'll understand and support any decision she makes with regards to your relationship. The old adage "if you love something, set it free" seems designed for your situation.
posted by arianell at 8:42 PM on July 12, 2008
This is not what you want to hear, but this relationship in it's current form is hopeless. You need to break up, and spend some time (like a couple of years) seriously apart and give both of yourselves a chance to grow up.
It is seriously unhealthy as it is, and sort of creepy that you just waited for her to get legal.
posted by BobbyDigital at 9:22 PM on July 12, 2008
It is seriously unhealthy as it is, and sort of creepy that you just waited for her to get legal.
posted by BobbyDigital at 9:22 PM on July 12, 2008
I'm pretty certain that you can find a psychologist/therapist to see on the weekend. Have you tried? In my experience, they often work hours scheduled to their patient's needs--at least mine did. Check it out before dismissing it.
posted by Toto_tot at 9:48 PM on July 12, 2008
posted by Toto_tot at 9:48 PM on July 12, 2008
You're going to have to trust her, and if she leaves you for someone else, you're going to have to accept it and move on with your life. Without that, there is no relationship here.
posted by jak68 at 12:07 AM on July 13, 2008
posted by jak68 at 12:07 AM on July 13, 2008
The one thing that I don't see in your second response is talking to her about what she means when she says "she needs space". You're staying out of the cabin to give her space - is it the space she needs or does she think you are just pouting or withdrawing? It sounds like keeping yourself busy with other people or in the gym would help distract you when you are not with her.
In terms of trust, have a discussion - it sounds like it would be reasonable for you two to decide that you want to spend the rest of the cruise trying to make the relationship work and that you each commit not to get romantically or sexually involved with anyone else during that time. If she agrees, then trust her word. Doubt just feeds your clingy behavior. Trust her. If you find out later you were wrong to trust her, then at least you know that did your best to make things work. You might also want to search on other mefi questions regarding unwanted thoughts.
posted by metahawk at 12:12 AM on July 13, 2008
In terms of trust, have a discussion - it sounds like it would be reasonable for you two to decide that you want to spend the rest of the cruise trying to make the relationship work and that you each commit not to get romantically or sexually involved with anyone else during that time. If she agrees, then trust her word. Doubt just feeds your clingy behavior. Trust her. If you find out later you were wrong to trust her, then at least you know that did your best to make things work. You might also want to search on other mefi questions regarding unwanted thoughts.
posted by metahawk at 12:12 AM on July 13, 2008
Response by poster: Hi everyone again...
Thanks for all your responses so far. I realise completely that I have been an abusive boyfriend, and it's that that I want to put right. Her happiness is definitely the most important priority to me, and if that means setting her free, then that will be what happens.
Unfortunately, there is no way for either of us to carry on working on the ship without the other... We are booked as a duo, contracted as a duo, and sing and play together every night. Either one of us walking off is just not an option at the moment. With regards to whose idea it was to work here, it was a joint decision. We have worked on another ship before, and we both decided, after being head hunted for the job, that we would come and do it again.
Last night she went out to the crew bar again, and I honestly just said that that was okay, for her to have a good time, and that I would see her later. When she came back, she told me that she went for a little while, and that she had been wandering around the decks, sitting on chairs outside and thinking. She seemed much happier, and told me that she respected me for listening to her, and that that was all she was going to say. I didn't push the point and we spent hours joking and laughing about school days and other unrelated things.
Today, she was already out when I got up, but when I did see her, she came to give me a cuddle, gave me a kiss and was generally a lot happier.
It is seriously unhealthy as it is, and sort of creepy that you just waited for her to get legal.
That's not really what happened... We were both seeing other people during that time, and we only eventually got together after we both did a lot of soul-searching to find out whether we wanted each other or not.
I agree completely with everyone saying that I shouldn't have said I would not display physical affection, and to be honest, I still have. It wasn't fair of me to say that, and I now know that.
Sticherbeast: It's all my equipment because I originally bought it all as, at the time, she didn't have the money to buy anything, nor any way to get a loan of some sort. I got a loan from the bank to buy it because I was in a better financial position at the time. As far as I know, she doesn't want to get off the ship.
And to all who told me that I should trust her... You're completely 100% correct, of course. In my heart, I do trust her, but I think it's the anxiety and worry that give me the feeling of not trusting her, if that makes any sense? As in, it's not that I don't trust her, but when I give in to my anxiety and worry, I immediately imagine bad situations and outcomes.
Thanks for all the help and advice so far... Any more thoughts would be completely awesome!
Thanks MeFites!
posted by mdavis1982 at 10:24 AM on July 13, 2008
Thanks for all your responses so far. I realise completely that I have been an abusive boyfriend, and it's that that I want to put right. Her happiness is definitely the most important priority to me, and if that means setting her free, then that will be what happens.
Unfortunately, there is no way for either of us to carry on working on the ship without the other... We are booked as a duo, contracted as a duo, and sing and play together every night. Either one of us walking off is just not an option at the moment. With regards to whose idea it was to work here, it was a joint decision. We have worked on another ship before, and we both decided, after being head hunted for the job, that we would come and do it again.
Last night she went out to the crew bar again, and I honestly just said that that was okay, for her to have a good time, and that I would see her later. When she came back, she told me that she went for a little while, and that she had been wandering around the decks, sitting on chairs outside and thinking. She seemed much happier, and told me that she respected me for listening to her, and that that was all she was going to say. I didn't push the point and we spent hours joking and laughing about school days and other unrelated things.
Today, she was already out when I got up, but when I did see her, she came to give me a cuddle, gave me a kiss and was generally a lot happier.
It is seriously unhealthy as it is, and sort of creepy that you just waited for her to get legal.
That's not really what happened... We were both seeing other people during that time, and we only eventually got together after we both did a lot of soul-searching to find out whether we wanted each other or not.
I agree completely with everyone saying that I shouldn't have said I would not display physical affection, and to be honest, I still have. It wasn't fair of me to say that, and I now know that.
Sticherbeast: It's all my equipment because I originally bought it all as, at the time, she didn't have the money to buy anything, nor any way to get a loan of some sort. I got a loan from the bank to buy it because I was in a better financial position at the time. As far as I know, she doesn't want to get off the ship.
And to all who told me that I should trust her... You're completely 100% correct, of course. In my heart, I do trust her, but I think it's the anxiety and worry that give me the feeling of not trusting her, if that makes any sense? As in, it's not that I don't trust her, but when I give in to my anxiety and worry, I immediately imagine bad situations and outcomes.
Thanks for all the help and advice so far... Any more thoughts would be completely awesome!
Thanks MeFites!
posted by mdavis1982 at 10:24 AM on July 13, 2008
Thanks for all the help and advice so far... Any more thoughts would be completely awesome!
I give you full credit, 100%, for recognizing your problems and trying to fix them. This must be an extremely difficult situation, and while I can't know exactly how difficult this is for you (and her!), I do appreciate your bravery in trying to do the right thing. This is not easy. Best wishes and good luck.
posted by Sticherbeast at 11:52 AM on July 13, 2008
I give you full credit, 100%, for recognizing your problems and trying to fix them. This must be an extremely difficult situation, and while I can't know exactly how difficult this is for you (and her!), I do appreciate your bravery in trying to do the right thing. This is not easy. Best wishes and good luck.
posted by Sticherbeast at 11:52 AM on July 13, 2008
Great job, mdavis. Keep it up!
posted by desjardins at 10:26 AM on July 16, 2008
posted by desjardins at 10:26 AM on July 16, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by availablelight at 4:25 PM on July 12, 2008 [12 favorites]