Help me stay away from stripclubs (and hookers)!
February 3, 2008 8:09 AM Subscribe
When I am out on the town drinking with friends and coworkers, I "slip".
When I am drunk and it's time to go home, I go the red light district. I spend too much money on drinks and women. I also use prostitutes.
I know, I am scum. I don't want to do this. I am married with kids. I love my wife. I love my kids. I want to be able to look them in the eyes.
I want to end this nasty habit. It is immoral, stupid, expensive and depressing. When I am sober, I can control the urge. When I am drunk, I follow it.
I like the atmosphere in a stripclub, but I also know its just a illusion. I don´t like to be with a hooker. The sex is sad. I have no illusions. I have no sexual needs that my wife can not fullfill. I do it, because, I feel bad.
I have always had low selfestem, but now I have a reason to really hate myself.
How do I get over this, and learn to live with myself?
How do I make sure, this behavour ends for good and I never set foot in a stripclub again? Have you ever had a similiar problem? How did you overcome it?
I cant tell my wife. I cant tell my friends. I can only tell you.
I want to end this nasty habit. It is immoral, stupid, expensive and depressing. When I am sober, I can control the urge. When I am drunk, I follow it.
I like the atmosphere in a stripclub, but I also know its just a illusion. I don´t like to be with a hooker. The sex is sad. I have no illusions. I have no sexual needs that my wife can not fullfill. I do it, because, I feel bad.
I have always had low selfestem, but now I have a reason to really hate myself.
How do I get over this, and learn to live with myself?
How do I make sure, this behavour ends for good and I never set foot in a stripclub again? Have you ever had a similiar problem? How did you overcome it?
I cant tell my wife. I cant tell my friends. I can only tell you.
There will be lots of talk about addiction and compulsion and similar that follow.
Many of us have had to give up alcohol for similar reasons. I would suggest the same to you. It is not easy, either for personal or social reasons, but the alternatives are much more painful as you are finding out.
posted by unixrat at 8:19 AM on February 3, 2008
Many of us have had to give up alcohol for similar reasons. I would suggest the same to you. It is not easy, either for personal or social reasons, but the alternatives are much more painful as you are finding out.
posted by unixrat at 8:19 AM on February 3, 2008
If you and your wife suddenly pop up with a disease, it's going to be pretty obvious what's been going on. Yeah, if drinking really is the problem, stop.
posted by Corduroy at 8:20 AM on February 3, 2008
posted by Corduroy at 8:20 AM on February 3, 2008
This is the ultimate cliche advice, but...
1. If you only do it when you're drinking, stop drinking.
2. See a psychologist to deal with the low self-esteem and to have someone you can trust to discuss this with.
posted by snoogles at 8:21 AM on February 3, 2008
1. If you only do it when you're drinking, stop drinking.
2. See a psychologist to deal with the low self-esteem and to have someone you can trust to discuss this with.
posted by snoogles at 8:21 AM on February 3, 2008
In addition to stopping drinking altogether (and you actually do this by seeking external assistance, so look in the phone book or Google for your area) and finding some help for your self-esteem issues (using the same method), you also probably need to find a different way to interact with your friends/coworkers. If you never "go out on the town" with them again, it sounds like it will make it easier to avoid your other temptations while you're dealing with the deep issues that make you give in to those temptations in the first place.
Every time a friend or coworker says, "Hey, let's go out tonight" you say no. Maybe suggest a daytime alternate that doesn't involve alcohol, strip clubs, and proximity to prostitutes, but at the very least it sounds like you need to start saying no to the partying. I hang out with my coworkers frequently, but it involves a lot of daytime activities.
Good luck to you and your family.
posted by TheManChild2000 at 8:40 AM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Every time a friend or coworker says, "Hey, let's go out tonight" you say no. Maybe suggest a daytime alternate that doesn't involve alcohol, strip clubs, and proximity to prostitutes, but at the very least it sounds like you need to start saying no to the partying. I hang out with my coworkers frequently, but it involves a lot of daytime activities.
Good luck to you and your family.
posted by TheManChild2000 at 8:40 AM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
As previously stated, I would urge to seek therapy immediately. And to also immediately cease going out for drinks with your co-workers.
If you can afford hookers and booze, you can afford therapy. Also keep in mind that the first therapist you try might not be the right fit, so don't give up on getting help. Try someone else until you find someone who you can work with.
If your co-workers give you a rough time about no longer participating, you can think of a couple of 'reasons' you are not going along--your doctor's got you on a prescription where you can't drink, you've got another commitment after work like coaching or a night class, you're doing some remodeling work at home. Keep it simple, polite, and firmly 'no, thank you'.
I don't need to tell you that the type of behaviour that you are indulging in is not only incredibly self-destructive, but is also a sure-fire way to destroy your family, too. Your marriage is in serious jeopardy from this activity, and your relationship with your kids is also at risk.
You may not want to ever, ever tell your wife about this, even after therapy. If you were my husband, and I found this out, I would no longer want to be married to you. The risk, betrayal, money spent, lack of respect for our relationship, and other reasons are enough to make me, as a woman, dissolve the marriage, and remove myself and my children from your life.
You may want to consider advising your wife, however, that you would like to work on some personal issues that you think are holding you back from being the best husband and father that you can be, and you are going to seek therapy to work on those issues.
Good luck with this. I think you can change it, and move on, but it will take a lot of work and introspection and not a little pain along the way. It sounds like your wife and family are worth making that effort. Please do it, for them and for you. Again, good luck in this.
posted by Savannah at 9:13 AM on February 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
If you can afford hookers and booze, you can afford therapy. Also keep in mind that the first therapist you try might not be the right fit, so don't give up on getting help. Try someone else until you find someone who you can work with.
If your co-workers give you a rough time about no longer participating, you can think of a couple of 'reasons' you are not going along--your doctor's got you on a prescription where you can't drink, you've got another commitment after work like coaching or a night class, you're doing some remodeling work at home. Keep it simple, polite, and firmly 'no, thank you'.
I don't need to tell you that the type of behaviour that you are indulging in is not only incredibly self-destructive, but is also a sure-fire way to destroy your family, too. Your marriage is in serious jeopardy from this activity, and your relationship with your kids is also at risk.
You may not want to ever, ever tell your wife about this, even after therapy. If you were my husband, and I found this out, I would no longer want to be married to you. The risk, betrayal, money spent, lack of respect for our relationship, and other reasons are enough to make me, as a woman, dissolve the marriage, and remove myself and my children from your life.
You may want to consider advising your wife, however, that you would like to work on some personal issues that you think are holding you back from being the best husband and father that you can be, and you are going to seek therapy to work on those issues.
Good luck with this. I think you can change it, and move on, but it will take a lot of work and introspection and not a little pain along the way. It sounds like your wife and family are worth making that effort. Please do it, for them and for you. Again, good luck in this.
posted by Savannah at 9:13 AM on February 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
anonymous: I have always had low selfestem, but now I have a reason to really hate myself.
No, no, no. That's not a rational response, and it doesn't help here, either. You've done wrong things. Accept it. The manly response isn't shame, it's right action. You can feel guilt, but don't indulge it; let it motivate you to be right. You are a human being, and a responsible human being. Don't be afraid to act like it.
Don't go out with friends. Go home. And, as everyone else here says, see a psychologist and talk with them about this problem; it's going to be better for you if you can talk to someone face to face.
It's very, very tough to swallow that shame. Sometimes I think it's the hardest thing we humans have to endure; I understand the pain you're going through. But you have to, friend. You have to let go of your anger toward yourself and make things right.
posted by koeselitz at 9:23 AM on February 3, 2008 [6 favorites]
No, no, no. That's not a rational response, and it doesn't help here, either. You've done wrong things. Accept it. The manly response isn't shame, it's right action. You can feel guilt, but don't indulge it; let it motivate you to be right. You are a human being, and a responsible human being. Don't be afraid to act like it.
Don't go out with friends. Go home. And, as everyone else here says, see a psychologist and talk with them about this problem; it's going to be better for you if you can talk to someone face to face.
It's very, very tough to swallow that shame. Sometimes I think it's the hardest thing we humans have to endure; I understand the pain you're going through. But you have to, friend. You have to let go of your anger toward yourself and make things right.
posted by koeselitz at 9:23 AM on February 3, 2008 [6 favorites]
When I am sober, I can control the urge.
No, you can't, because you obviously can't keep yourself from getting drunk and you know that when you get drunk that you will do these things.
Repeat this until you really get what sondrialiac is saying. Then find a therapist, an AA meeting, or both and start recovery from alcohol immediately. Frankly, you have a choice between your wife/kids and alcohol/prostitutes. You have been making the wrong choice. Your ability to choose will not last indefinitely. Eventually the world will choose one for you and then you'll be stuck. If you prefer booze and hookers to your wife and kids, then by all means keep walking the tightrope. But, it doesn't sound like you do. Therefore, you need to get into alcohol recovery!
posted by milarepa at 9:28 AM on February 3, 2008
No, you can't, because you obviously can't keep yourself from getting drunk and you know that when you get drunk that you will do these things.
Repeat this until you really get what sondrialiac is saying. Then find a therapist, an AA meeting, or both and start recovery from alcohol immediately. Frankly, you have a choice between your wife/kids and alcohol/prostitutes. You have been making the wrong choice. Your ability to choose will not last indefinitely. Eventually the world will choose one for you and then you'll be stuck. If you prefer booze and hookers to your wife and kids, then by all means keep walking the tightrope. But, it doesn't sound like you do. Therefore, you need to get into alcohol recovery!
posted by milarepa at 9:28 AM on February 3, 2008
IANAD but in addition to the mention of alcoholism, sex addiction is a clinically recognized problem. Study of addiction in general is also a medical specialty, which is good old Dr. Drew Pinsky's discipline, the reason he's on Loveline.
posted by XMLicious at 9:29 AM on February 3, 2008
posted by XMLicious at 9:29 AM on February 3, 2008
I think you need to stop referring to it as 'slipping'. You're giving yourself permission when you use terms like that, by implying that sometimes those activities are acceptable. (ie, while eating cake is normally acceptable, while on a diet eating cake is 'slipping'.) I know the semantics seem like a minor thing, but it frames the way you think about it - instead of being something you would never, ever do, you've framed it as something that you usually shouldn't.
All the other advice so far is good too. But i think that changing your thinking is just as important as changing your actions. (You might want to investigate cognitive behavioural therapy - it could help you understand how to make better choices for your life, and how that will affect your happiness.)
posted by Kololo at 9:31 AM on February 3, 2008
All the other advice so far is good too. But i think that changing your thinking is just as important as changing your actions. (You might want to investigate cognitive behavioural therapy - it could help you understand how to make better choices for your life, and how that will affect your happiness.)
posted by Kololo at 9:31 AM on February 3, 2008
You have to tell somebody other than us, clearly. You have to get into therapy now because it sounds like you're not only dealing with an alcohol addiction but a sex addiction, as well.
Perhaps you fear therapy for the same reasons you feel drawn to strip clubs and sex with prostitutes - you'd rather have illusion than reality and you'd rather be in total control than vulnerable. These preferences don't make you scum or a horrible person - they point up deeper problems you're trying to privately cope with through alcohol and sex. That's just the way of addiction. No one's addicted to alcohol because it tastes so damn delicious, or to sex because it just feels so freakin' great. It's just a mask.
Speaking of masks, you sound afraid to speak to anyone other than us about this because you risk losing face in the eyes of your co-workers, friends and, most importantly, your wife. Maybe you're worried that setting up a regular session with a therapist will somehow out your activities to your wife. Well, therapy is private. Only you need to know you're seeing a therapist, and you must immediately get into therapy. I would suggest arranging with your doctor a complete physical with a full STD work-up, and asking your doctor for a recommendation for a psychologist and/or psychiatrist. You may either choose to enter treatment with them, or you might ask them for a referral to a counselor that specializes specifically in sex and alcohol addiction. There are ways to find help that do not involve piquing the curiosity of your co-workers and family.
You're not in control of this. These are not slips, and it isn't the alcohol that's making you act out in a sexually self-destructive way. It's the alcohol and sex that are enabling you to continue hating yourself. Until you deal with that, you're not just risking your marriage, your risking your own life and your wife's as well. I wish you the very best of luck.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 9:36 AM on February 3, 2008
Perhaps you fear therapy for the same reasons you feel drawn to strip clubs and sex with prostitutes - you'd rather have illusion than reality and you'd rather be in total control than vulnerable. These preferences don't make you scum or a horrible person - they point up deeper problems you're trying to privately cope with through alcohol and sex. That's just the way of addiction. No one's addicted to alcohol because it tastes so damn delicious, or to sex because it just feels so freakin' great. It's just a mask.
Speaking of masks, you sound afraid to speak to anyone other than us about this because you risk losing face in the eyes of your co-workers, friends and, most importantly, your wife. Maybe you're worried that setting up a regular session with a therapist will somehow out your activities to your wife. Well, therapy is private. Only you need to know you're seeing a therapist, and you must immediately get into therapy. I would suggest arranging with your doctor a complete physical with a full STD work-up, and asking your doctor for a recommendation for a psychologist and/or psychiatrist. You may either choose to enter treatment with them, or you might ask them for a referral to a counselor that specializes specifically in sex and alcohol addiction. There are ways to find help that do not involve piquing the curiosity of your co-workers and family.
You're not in control of this. These are not slips, and it isn't the alcohol that's making you act out in a sexually self-destructive way. It's the alcohol and sex that are enabling you to continue hating yourself. Until you deal with that, you're not just risking your marriage, your risking your own life and your wife's as well. I wish you the very best of luck.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 9:36 AM on February 3, 2008
One of the things I've realized over the years is that throwing down money at a strip club is quite literally paying girls to flirt with you. Which obviously goes a long way to boost your self-esteem. So yeah, it makes perfect sense that you would get addicted to something like that.
Come to think of it... there's no good reason why I haven't become addicted to going to strip clubs myself, except maybe that I'm a cheap bastard and couldn't stand to spend money like that very often.
So perhaps an essential part of the solution is to find some other activity that boosts your ego. Maybe it's even worth it to spend as much money on a good substitute as you spend on the sleaze... take up amateur car racing, for example. Become the debonair RayBans-wearing hero and listen to people cheer for you.
posted by XMLicious at 9:46 AM on February 3, 2008
Come to think of it... there's no good reason why I haven't become addicted to going to strip clubs myself, except maybe that I'm a cheap bastard and couldn't stand to spend money like that very often.
So perhaps an essential part of the solution is to find some other activity that boosts your ego. Maybe it's even worth it to spend as much money on a good substitute as you spend on the sleaze... take up amateur car racing, for example. Become the debonair RayBans-wearing hero and listen to people cheer for you.
posted by XMLicious at 9:46 AM on February 3, 2008
When I am out on the town drinking with friends and coworkers, I "slip".
You say you have no needs she can't fulfill. Drinking and whores look like two of your needs.
So don't give up drinking, go out drinking with your wife. Get shitfaced with her, then go home and do with her whatever it is you do with the whores.
If something about whores turns you on, if something about a paid partner puts some steel in your floppy ego, then see if your wife can play that game with you, maybe even take the money from you that you'd otherwise be slipping to real whores. If she in turn hands the money to the babysitter, fine, if you both get a good night out and a good night in.
posted by pracowity at 10:00 AM on February 3, 2008
You say you have no needs she can't fulfill. Drinking and whores look like two of your needs.
So don't give up drinking, go out drinking with your wife. Get shitfaced with her, then go home and do with her whatever it is you do with the whores.
If something about whores turns you on, if something about a paid partner puts some steel in your floppy ego, then see if your wife can play that game with you, maybe even take the money from you that you'd otherwise be slipping to real whores. If she in turn hands the money to the babysitter, fine, if you both get a good night out and a good night in.
posted by pracowity at 10:00 AM on February 3, 2008
Self-destructive behavior that you don't understand and would like to change is pretty much the textbook indication for psychotherapy. Go find a therapist you can trust and work with her to solve this mystery.
posted by ikkyu2 at 10:18 AM on February 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by ikkyu2 at 10:18 AM on February 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
When I am out on the town drinking with friends and coworkers, I "slip". When I am drunk and it's time to go home, I go the red light district.
You have a wife and kids and you are going out with friends and coworkers in your free time. Why are you being so avoidant with your family? How do you find that kind of time to go out? I suggest you pay more attention to the family you've created. You really must stop sleeping with hookers because you can get AIDS and other stuff that you will never be able to get rid of. Tell your friends and coworkers you are done going out because your family needs you at home. Or make up any excuse not to put yourself in the position where you know you'll fail. It is up to you and only you to re-establish your boundaries with your friends and coworkers. You are very brave to be addressing this problem. You just have to decide to change your behavior and get some help with a compatible therapist or counselor who can work with you long-term. Unless your wife is a totally clueless person or just too exhausted from being left with the kids while you are out late, she probably knows you have been up to something...you may very well be married to someone just as avoidant as you are. You really owe it to your wife to either get out of the marriage or solve your problems. Does your wife get tested regularly for STD's? How will your wife feel when she gets sick and you have to tell her it is probably from something you gave her that you got from a hooker in the first place? How will your kids think of you if something like this happens?
posted by mamaraks at 10:29 AM on February 3, 2008
You have a wife and kids and you are going out with friends and coworkers in your free time. Why are you being so avoidant with your family? How do you find that kind of time to go out? I suggest you pay more attention to the family you've created. You really must stop sleeping with hookers because you can get AIDS and other stuff that you will never be able to get rid of. Tell your friends and coworkers you are done going out because your family needs you at home. Or make up any excuse not to put yourself in the position where you know you'll fail. It is up to you and only you to re-establish your boundaries with your friends and coworkers. You are very brave to be addressing this problem. You just have to decide to change your behavior and get some help with a compatible therapist or counselor who can work with you long-term. Unless your wife is a totally clueless person or just too exhausted from being left with the kids while you are out late, she probably knows you have been up to something...you may very well be married to someone just as avoidant as you are. You really owe it to your wife to either get out of the marriage or solve your problems. Does your wife get tested regularly for STD's? How will your wife feel when she gets sick and you have to tell her it is probably from something you gave her that you got from a hooker in the first place? How will your kids think of you if something like this happens?
posted by mamaraks at 10:29 AM on February 3, 2008
stop drinking. get therapy. good luck.
posted by thinkingwoman at 10:59 AM on February 3, 2008
posted by thinkingwoman at 10:59 AM on February 3, 2008
Perhaps the OP is in a country where after-work drinking with coworkers is an ingrained part of the culture and therefore somewhat harder to get out of than just saying "no, sorry I can't"? Would that sort of culture also affect the availability of therapists? I don't actually know these answers, but I thought it might be something to consider.
posted by casarkos at 10:59 AM on February 3, 2008
posted by casarkos at 10:59 AM on February 3, 2008
You knew the answer before you asked the question. If you want your self-esteem back, if you want your life back, stop drinking. When the risk to your life and livelihood is greater than your desire to "go out on the town", you'll stop.
Now here's a question for you: what aspect of yourself are you trying to drown in booze and "good times"? When you can answer that, you'll understand that the booze is just getting in the way of dealing with the real problem.
Good luck.
posted by SPrintF at 11:28 AM on February 3, 2008
Now here's a question for you: what aspect of yourself are you trying to drown in booze and "good times"? When you can answer that, you'll understand that the booze is just getting in the way of dealing with the real problem.
Good luck.
posted by SPrintF at 11:28 AM on February 3, 2008
Make sure you are familiar with one thing.. and that is, if you continue with this, you are almost certainly going to lose your family, and given the pattern of your behavior, I suspect you might respond to this by spiraling even more into despair, so really you'll lose your life.
Of course, some people thrive on this sorta stuff and eventually find the "real" them, but if being a family man is what you feel is what you really want to be, a good Dad, etc, then you need to make sure you can drum up the right internal feeling on will.. that dread of I'm going to lose my family. If you can bring up that feeling on will, you can prevent these things from happening again.
posted by wackybrit at 11:33 AM on February 3, 2008
Of course, some people thrive on this sorta stuff and eventually find the "real" them, but if being a family man is what you feel is what you really want to be, a good Dad, etc, then you need to make sure you can drum up the right internal feeling on will.. that dread of I'm going to lose my family. If you can bring up that feeling on will, you can prevent these things from happening again.
posted by wackybrit at 11:33 AM on February 3, 2008
Mod note: comment removed - "you do horrible things you should be ashamed of" is not a decent way to answer the question. if you are that indignant, take it to metatalk or go for a walk.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:33 AM on February 3, 2008
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:33 AM on February 3, 2008
It's acting out, plain and simple. Some do it with anger, some with crime, some with drugs and others with sex. There's always an underlying impulse that stems from something your subconscious is convinced you're entitled to because of - usually a betrayal in childhood. Off the bat. I agree with the others who mentioned Sex Addiction, yet coupled with a comorbidity of self-medication. What needs to be found out with some guidance - is what is that pain you're trying to escape. 12 Steps are pretty good at getting real and through the self-talking BS and excuses. Unfortunately till you hit rock bottom, and you have no alternatives left is when real help is sought. But posting here is an effort towards the light. Good luck on the journey.
posted by watercarrier at 11:58 AM on February 3, 2008
posted by watercarrier at 11:58 AM on February 3, 2008
I disagree with those here who say not to tell your wife. You have potentially exposed her to AIDs and to HPV and God knows what else. If she knows to get tested now, it could save her life. Certainly, the answer isn't to get shitfaced and treat her like a whore. Tell her now - at least an abbreviated version. If she leaves you, well, it's no less than you deserve. If she doesn't, you have something real to hold onto. Let her know your weakness, beg for forgiveness. Prove to her you are worth forgiving. Ask her to work with you. But please, stop the lies now. That is the first step.
posted by clarkstonian at 1:18 PM on February 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by clarkstonian at 1:18 PM on February 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
Seconding XMLicious' recommendation of Dr. Pinsky -- you can find his books on Amazon.
Here's the problem with the answers you've received so far. Nobody here can diagnose you -- you may be an addict, which is a serious disease. You must see an M.D. qualified to make that diagnosis. If it turns out you do suffer from addiction, no amount of reasoning about the problem or behavior-modification will help. The very definition of addiction is that the behavior continues despite worsening negative consequences. You will continue until you "hit rock bottom" (as they say).
Sorry to be negative, but you may have a serious medical condition. You need a diagnosis, not friendly advice. If you do have this disease, you need a treatment plan from a qualified medical doctor.
posted by sdodd at 2:32 PM on February 3, 2008
Here's the problem with the answers you've received so far. Nobody here can diagnose you -- you may be an addict, which is a serious disease. You must see an M.D. qualified to make that diagnosis. If it turns out you do suffer from addiction, no amount of reasoning about the problem or behavior-modification will help. The very definition of addiction is that the behavior continues despite worsening negative consequences. You will continue until you "hit rock bottom" (as they say).
Sorry to be negative, but you may have a serious medical condition. You need a diagnosis, not friendly advice. If you do have this disease, you need a treatment plan from a qualified medical doctor.
posted by sdodd at 2:32 PM on February 3, 2008
Here's a 2003 radio interview with Dr. Pinsky on public radio about his work and the challenges addicts encounter.
posted by XMLicious at 3:07 PM on February 3, 2008
posted by XMLicious at 3:07 PM on February 3, 2008
Greetings. I've registered here just so I can respond to this question.
Some years ago I could have written this post, almost word-for-word. Since then, I have been diagnosed with sex-and-love addiction, which is a legitimate, recognized, and serious mental health issue. I've faced pimps with guns, been in crack houses seeking sex, and was nearly mugged on multiple occasions by "guests" in my car, and scam artists living in the red light districts of cities I've visited. I feel pretty well qualified to speak to your question, as my advice is not theoretical, nor is it based solely on my personal morality.
I've attended SLAA meetings, and found a lot of help, solace, and reinforcement on my recovery there. SAA is another good group, but I chose the former went I (like you!) realized I needed outside help to overcome my problems. SLAA is a 12-step program, like AA & NA, and has a specific plan you follow - one of the later steps is "apologizing to ones whom you have harmed". Why isn't is first? Because, simply put, before you have some control over your addiction, a rampant streak of apologies offers you the false assurance that you are now "redeemed", and "in control" (which you can be, but are not yet).
My experience, based on listening to literally dozens of stories like yours from other SLAA members, is that clarkstonian's advice, while well-meaning and rationally-based, will likely result in divorce or separation, and additional pain all around, while you are just beginning your struggle to overcome your addiction. Don't do it. Don't tell your wife.
However, do: stop going out with friends to drink (the mere act of heading out for one drink is, by your own account, tantamount to a decision to pursue your addiction); start therapy with a therapist specializing in addictions, and start attending SLAA or SAA meetings.
If the therapist doesn't feel right, get a new one, and then quit the first one. Same for SLAA/SAA meetings - keep looking until you find one you feel comfortable with, but under no circumstances use that as an excuse to stop attending entirely.
My email is in my profile, should you need to contact me.
You have my greatest wish for success. But only you can accomplish this, and it will be much harder than you imagine.
posted by WorkingOnANewMe at 3:08 PM on February 3, 2008 [6 favorites]
Some years ago I could have written this post, almost word-for-word. Since then, I have been diagnosed with sex-and-love addiction, which is a legitimate, recognized, and serious mental health issue. I've faced pimps with guns, been in crack houses seeking sex, and was nearly mugged on multiple occasions by "guests" in my car, and scam artists living in the red light districts of cities I've visited. I feel pretty well qualified to speak to your question, as my advice is not theoretical, nor is it based solely on my personal morality.
I've attended SLAA meetings, and found a lot of help, solace, and reinforcement on my recovery there. SAA is another good group, but I chose the former went I (like you!) realized I needed outside help to overcome my problems. SLAA is a 12-step program, like AA & NA, and has a specific plan you follow - one of the later steps is "apologizing to ones whom you have harmed". Why isn't is first? Because, simply put, before you have some control over your addiction, a rampant streak of apologies offers you the false assurance that you are now "redeemed", and "in control" (which you can be, but are not yet).
My experience, based on listening to literally dozens of stories like yours from other SLAA members, is that clarkstonian's advice, while well-meaning and rationally-based, will likely result in divorce or separation, and additional pain all around, while you are just beginning your struggle to overcome your addiction. Don't do it. Don't tell your wife.
However, do: stop going out with friends to drink (the mere act of heading out for one drink is, by your own account, tantamount to a decision to pursue your addiction); start therapy with a therapist specializing in addictions, and start attending SLAA or SAA meetings.
If the therapist doesn't feel right, get a new one, and then quit the first one. Same for SLAA/SAA meetings - keep looking until you find one you feel comfortable with, but under no circumstances use that as an excuse to stop attending entirely.
My email is in my profile, should you need to contact me.
You have my greatest wish for success. But only you can accomplish this, and it will be much harder than you imagine.
posted by WorkingOnANewMe at 3:08 PM on February 3, 2008 [6 favorites]
I agree with the above sentiments that this post was composed with your answers already in mind, which include your self-perception as victim, low self esteem, and inability/unwillingness to talk to anyone about these issues.
That being said, you did post this question, which indicates that you are open to change. Really, really read what people have written here.
You can either act to fix things now, with your family, your job, and your health (?) intact, or you could wait until you've truly hit bottom. Take a moment to imagine what real rock bottom will look like. Then decide if you'd rather take charge now, or wait 'til then.
posted by prophetsearcher at 3:58 PM on February 3, 2008
That being said, you did post this question, which indicates that you are open to change. Really, really read what people have written here.
You can either act to fix things now, with your family, your job, and your health (?) intact, or you could wait until you've truly hit bottom. Take a moment to imagine what real rock bottom will look like. Then decide if you'd rather take charge now, or wait 'til then.
posted by prophetsearcher at 3:58 PM on February 3, 2008
One of the basic definitions for alcoholism is:
If you do crappy things only when you get drunk, but you keep getting drunk, you're an alcoholic.
posted by johngumbo at 6:03 PM on February 3, 2008 [5 favorites]
If you do crappy things only when you get drunk, but you keep getting drunk, you're an alcoholic.
posted by johngumbo at 6:03 PM on February 3, 2008 [5 favorites]
How do I get over this, and learn to live with myself?
I think the actual answer is to divorce your wife and be honest about why so she can be thoroughly tested due to the huge risk you've put her at. Because I don't think you want to change. You say can't talk to anyone. You "slip," which isn't correct because you get drunk time and again knowing you'll be fucking whores when the liquor kicks in.
Then, maybe when your life has hit rock bottom you'll decide to give therapy a real try, and possibly learn to love yourself. You definitely cannot love anyone else unless that happens.
posted by 6550 at 7:21 PM on February 3, 2008
I think the actual answer is to divorce your wife and be honest about why so she can be thoroughly tested due to the huge risk you've put her at. Because I don't think you want to change. You say can't talk to anyone. You "slip," which isn't correct because you get drunk time and again knowing you'll be fucking whores when the liquor kicks in.
Then, maybe when your life has hit rock bottom you'll decide to give therapy a real try, and possibly learn to love yourself. You definitely cannot love anyone else unless that happens.
posted by 6550 at 7:21 PM on February 3, 2008
If you do crappy things only when you get drunk, but you keep getting drunk, you're an alcoholic.
Spot on.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:48 PM on February 3, 2008
Spot on.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:48 PM on February 3, 2008
Workingonanewme, a question - and I truly do *not* mean this to be belligerent.
You encourage the OP not to tell his wife because it will lead to divorce and separation - an additional pain on him.
I understand how this helps him - and in fact, I am not suggesting that he tell or not tell his wife - yet I can't help but wonder if partners choose to leave anyway, out of anger of being put in harm's way, and the betrayal. Also, in your experience, how have individuals engaged in these acts lived with the burden of not telling their partner (I am assuming it's a burden) - isn't there a pain in that as well? Is your sense that it isn't equal to the pain of disclosure?
Be well,
anitanita
posted by anitanita at 10:14 PM on February 3, 2008
You encourage the OP not to tell his wife because it will lead to divorce and separation - an additional pain on him.
I understand how this helps him - and in fact, I am not suggesting that he tell or not tell his wife - yet I can't help but wonder if partners choose to leave anyway, out of anger of being put in harm's way, and the betrayal. Also, in your experience, how have individuals engaged in these acts lived with the burden of not telling their partner (I am assuming it's a burden) - isn't there a pain in that as well? Is your sense that it isn't equal to the pain of disclosure?
Be well,
anitanita
posted by anitanita at 10:14 PM on February 3, 2008
I can tell you the following things about my experience:
1) Although I didn't use hookers when I was drinking, I did a lot of things I was really ashamed of . . . including continuing to drink when I knew I had a problem. I thought I was a bad person because I couldn't stop.
2) I tried to quit by myself repeatedly and couldn't. After my second DUI I went to AA. That was five years ago. I haven't had a drink since and I don't miss it.
3) Only you can say whether you're an addict. But if you are, it's not a moral failing or a sign of weakness. It's a disease. Diabetics don't beat themselves up for having diabetes. On the other hand, once the disease is diagnosed, you're responsible for treating it.
4) AA worked for me; it doesn't for everybody. But when your drinking is so tied up in secrecy and deceit, it really helps to talk to people who's been through the same thing and come out the other side. For one thing, they won't judge you, and for another, they're much better at calling you out on bullshit because they've all run the same jusitifications on themselves.
I hope you find some peace. There's help out there if you want it, but you have to want it. Another poster said you have to hit bottom to quit. Well, you hit bottom when you stop digging.
posted by viscountslim at 1:24 AM on February 4, 2008
1) Although I didn't use hookers when I was drinking, I did a lot of things I was really ashamed of . . . including continuing to drink when I knew I had a problem. I thought I was a bad person because I couldn't stop.
2) I tried to quit by myself repeatedly and couldn't. After my second DUI I went to AA. That was five years ago. I haven't had a drink since and I don't miss it.
3) Only you can say whether you're an addict. But if you are, it's not a moral failing or a sign of weakness. It's a disease. Diabetics don't beat themselves up for having diabetes. On the other hand, once the disease is diagnosed, you're responsible for treating it.
4) AA worked for me; it doesn't for everybody. But when your drinking is so tied up in secrecy and deceit, it really helps to talk to people who's been through the same thing and come out the other side. For one thing, they won't judge you, and for another, they're much better at calling you out on bullshit because they've all run the same jusitifications on themselves.
I hope you find some peace. There's help out there if you want it, but you have to want it. Another poster said you have to hit bottom to quit. Well, you hit bottom when you stop digging.
posted by viscountslim at 1:24 AM on February 4, 2008
anitanita:
Yes, sometimes partners leave anyway. There's no denying that, and no escaping it - if he stays untreated in his addiction, she'll leave with an STD acquired 2nd-hand, and the courts will not look as favorably on child visitation rights. No maybe's about it: the OP will catch an STD from a streetwalker (chlamydia from a BJ, for instance :( ), and bring it home. There is the additional problem that, until he is fully sober* in his addiction, he puts his wife at additional risk. FOR THAT REASON, he has a responsibility to get tested (which he can do anonymously at a county clinic) as soon as he can bring himself to do it, including an HIV test - and believe me, that is a sobering reality check (pun intended).
Yes, it's a burden to keep this secret - but he's already suffering that burden, as you can hear in his post. Until he's ready to attempt real sobriety from his behaviors, a wife kicking him out of the house/packing up the kids & leaving isn't going to help him become more stable & ready to deal with his issues. An amazing number of SAs in my group were also AA and/or NA members, which is not too surprising - but think of how awful their lives had gotten... Thankfully, I only had one life-threatening addiction to deal with at a time (and when you're staring down the barrel of a gun, it's hard to deny your sexual habits are any less dangerous than a heroin habit - but I still was in denial about the addiction).
I know you said "disclosure", but I want to talk about "closure". There won't be any until he's sober. Period. So, confessing his sins now to his wife may seem like a confession, with chance of redemption. In fact, it's only a single, tiny, easy step - compared to the daily struggle he'll face staying sober in good times & in bad, in sickness & in health...
* Sobriety for sex & love addicts is defined in terms of their own personal habits. Some straight-identified men I've known seek out anonymous gay sex, hating every single minute of it. Some men or women have multiple affairs with men they aren't really interested in. Many men are obsessed with porn, spending hours into the night getting their fix. Some men "hobby" (pay whores). Some of those things are dangerous for me; others have no temptation for me.
S&L addiction is like eating disorders, in that healthy people like to engage in sex/become romantically involved/eat food. It's attractive & fun, and it's supposed to be. Healthy people also say, "Enough! I'm full!" However, if you weigh 400 lb, or are 5'6" and weight 90 lb, there's a problem. Ultimately, however, the goal for these addicts is not total avoidance (like my friend the recovered-alcoholic who is over 5 years completely dry), but measured & healthy usage.
Some sex addicts become "sexually anorexic" while developing their sobriety, sometimes for years, or even "emotionally anorexic" (w.r.t. love relationships), but obviously: this isn't fully healthy, either. But it may be what they need, where they are - and it beats getting AIDS/staring at a gun/dying in a crackhouse with a whore/not seeing your kids. It beats giving in to your addiction.
Thanks for the thoughtful question, anitanita.
posted by WorkingOnANewMe at 6:02 AM on February 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
Yes, sometimes partners leave anyway. There's no denying that, and no escaping it - if he stays untreated in his addiction, she'll leave with an STD acquired 2nd-hand, and the courts will not look as favorably on child visitation rights. No maybe's about it: the OP will catch an STD from a streetwalker (chlamydia from a BJ, for instance :( ), and bring it home. There is the additional problem that, until he is fully sober* in his addiction, he puts his wife at additional risk. FOR THAT REASON, he has a responsibility to get tested (which he can do anonymously at a county clinic) as soon as he can bring himself to do it, including an HIV test - and believe me, that is a sobering reality check (pun intended).
Yes, it's a burden to keep this secret - but he's already suffering that burden, as you can hear in his post. Until he's ready to attempt real sobriety from his behaviors, a wife kicking him out of the house/packing up the kids & leaving isn't going to help him become more stable & ready to deal with his issues. An amazing number of SAs in my group were also AA and/or NA members, which is not too surprising - but think of how awful their lives had gotten... Thankfully, I only had one life-threatening addiction to deal with at a time (and when you're staring down the barrel of a gun, it's hard to deny your sexual habits are any less dangerous than a heroin habit - but I still was in denial about the addiction).
I know you said "disclosure", but I want to talk about "closure". There won't be any until he's sober. Period. So, confessing his sins now to his wife may seem like a confession, with chance of redemption. In fact, it's only a single, tiny, easy step - compared to the daily struggle he'll face staying sober in good times & in bad, in sickness & in health...
* Sobriety for sex & love addicts is defined in terms of their own personal habits. Some straight-identified men I've known seek out anonymous gay sex, hating every single minute of it. Some men or women have multiple affairs with men they aren't really interested in. Many men are obsessed with porn, spending hours into the night getting their fix. Some men "hobby" (pay whores). Some of those things are dangerous for me; others have no temptation for me.
S&L addiction is like eating disorders, in that healthy people like to engage in sex/become romantically involved/eat food. It's attractive & fun, and it's supposed to be. Healthy people also say, "Enough! I'm full!" However, if you weigh 400 lb, or are 5'6" and weight 90 lb, there's a problem. Ultimately, however, the goal for these addicts is not total avoidance (like my friend the recovered-alcoholic who is over 5 years completely dry), but measured & healthy usage.
Some sex addicts become "sexually anorexic" while developing their sobriety, sometimes for years, or even "emotionally anorexic" (w.r.t. love relationships), but obviously: this isn't fully healthy, either. But it may be what they need, where they are - and it beats getting AIDS/staring at a gun/dying in a crackhouse with a whore/not seeing your kids. It beats giving in to your addiction.
Thanks for the thoughtful question, anitanita.
posted by WorkingOnANewMe at 6:02 AM on February 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
thanks workingonanewme- I appreciate your response. Something to think about.....
posted by anitanita at 12:42 AM on February 12, 2008
posted by anitanita at 12:42 AM on February 12, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Abbril at 8:17 AM on February 3, 2008 [5 favorites]